BEYOND THE SWORD looks and sounds soo VERY F****** cool!!!!!!!!!

...but when will it come out for mac?

Please don't swear.

And maybe you'd like to enlighten us as to what or who is Beyond the Sword, and what it has to do with Civ4?

April 01 is coming, be weary of everything! Double check every news report on anything. (I haven't found any obvious clue for this one yet though, just mentioning it...)

Moderator Action: And maybe you'd like to enlighten us as to what or who is Beyond the Sword, and what it has to do with Civ4?

Is laughing at a moderator an offense? Because I can't help myself at the moment! :lol:

Never read the CF front page? ;)

OK, got it. New Expansion Pack for Civ4. I wonder if Aspyr even know about it yet :rolleyes:

Never read the CF front page? ;)

Nope! .

Reading the description, it does seem like it should be called "Beyond the Mods" rather than "Beyond the Sword", but if it brings Blake's Better AI to the Mac, I won't complain.

Reading the description, it does seem like it should be called "Beyond the Mods" rather than "Beyond the Sword", but if it brings Blake's Better AI to the Mac, I won't complain.

:rotfl:

It was certainly "beyond this mod" :blush:. I Googled it and found nothing. Of course, Google prolly re-indexes the 'net overnight, so hadn't picked up the announcement yet.

:snicker: Nothing gets past you, does it Alan? :mischief:

:snicker: Nothing gets past you, does it Alan? :mischief:

Hey, back off buck-o! No one, and I mean no one, hassles AlanH! :trouble:

;)

I've heard BtS is coming out for mac to co-incide with the release of of civ 5 for PC :D

Looking forward to Mac 'Beyond the Sword' Mac Version.

I seriously hope Aspyr announce this soon, and get the MAC version out as soon as possiblle (ideally a couple of months after the PC version).

I would pre-order a copy even now.

Looking forward to Mac 'Beyond the Sword' Mac Version.

I seriously hope Aspyr announce this soon, and get the MAC version out as soon as possiblle (ideally a couple of months after the PC version).

I would pre-order a copy even now.

You Civ-whore! ;)

I like the idea of founding corporations and spreading their corporate tendrils throughout the world. :) It reminds me somewhat of Morgan in SMAC.

If my dreams come true, then Beyond the Sword includes a revision of mac and pc SDK so that both platforms can use all the mods without a sweat.






And everyone gets a free pony with purchase. Yeah, I can dream.

it would be pretty cool for the SDK to be compatible

all mac mod problems would be solved!

it would be pretty cool for the SDK to be compatible

all mac mod problems would be solved!

An SDK can't solve the problems we already have with mods - incorrect XML text encoding, Python calls to the Windows registry, Python version differences ....

Even assuming an SDK is on the cards, I'd be surprised if it could be made 100% compatible with existing DLL code. Similar problems to the above will rear their heads again, only in C/C++ this time. The best we can hope for is that we can take source code for an existing mod DLL and work out how to adapt it to compile for the Mac version without too much hassle.

An SDK can't solve the problems we already have with mods - incorrect XML text encoding, Python calls to the Windows registry, Python version differences ....

Even assuming an SDK is on the cards, I'd be surprised if it could be made 100% compatible with existing DLL code. Similar problems to the above will rear their heads again, only in C/C++ this time. The best we can hope for is that we can take source code for an existing mod DLL and work out how to adapt it to compile for the Mac version without too much hassle.

I would settle for that, but I'll be buying it anyway. Thanks for the reality check, AlanH.

I would settle for that, but I'll be buying it anyway.

Me too, on both counts.

Thanks for the reality check, AlanH.
The dream is still alive ... If it comes true, we'll just have some work to do, I guess.

Well, the turn-around for Warlords was much better than for Civ 4 itself, so hope springs eternal. Really, add-on's like this are easy so porting them isn't too hard. Frankly, though, with summer coming up I may just borrow a PC with a decent 3D card and buy the PC version of Beyond the Sword. My Macbook can barely cut it for Civ 4 and in all liklihood, Beyond the Sword will cut us Intel graphics folks right out of the picture like the patch for Warlords does.

MAC PRIDE!

my intel core duo iMac can run 3 warlords and 1 iConquer without even slowing down.

hurray for showing off

I can't wait (almost). The Dutch:strength:

I've heard BtS is coming out for mac to co-incide with the release of of civ 5 for PC :D

Go back to your cave, Troll! :borg:

i really want this game. i am iMpacient

The news release says it will be released for Windows in July - 4 months. The Mac version isn't going to come sooner than that, so I guess you'll have to hold your breath for a while yet :)

MAC PRIDE!

my intel core duo iMac can run 3 warlords and 1 iConquer without even slowing down.

hurray for showing off

Yeah, your "iMac" does. You've got a real 3D card. Sadly, I sacrificed that capability for a cute little plastic shell on my MacBook (you know, instead of the Pro).

I keep hoping that my old iMac will kick off so my wife will let me buy a nice new 24" replacement, but the damned thing's too reliable even after all these years.

Drat!

ha! mac's reliability and invulnerability comes at a cost

You Civ-whore! ;)

I like the idea of founding corporations and spreading their corporate tendrils throughout the world. :) It reminds me somewhat of Morgan in SMAC.

You don't know how much!

I've bought Vanilla for PC, Vanilla for MAC, Warlords for PC, Warlords for MAC, and then... Warlord for PC again for when I wanna 2-play and the other person doesn't have a copy yet (ie my girlfriend :P).

:D

Beyond the sword for PC is coming next (I won't resist waiting for the MAC version, unless they are VERY VERY close... like a few hours! :P), and then a couple of copies of the MAC version, for playing with my gf at the new expansion :)

ha! mac's reliability and invulnerability comes at a cost

I got my hopes up recently. The CD drive was acting funny, wouldn't respond to eject commands, wasn't reading this one disc.

But then, sadly, it turned out that a bad CD had made iTunes go loopy and it just wouldn't release the drive. The darned thing's just fine now.

I love this little Macbook (even though it's got the plastic shell that gets dirty CONSTANTLY) but I sure would've paid extra to put a decent 3D chipset in it.

I love this little Macbook (even though it's got the plastic shell that gets dirty CONSTANTLY)

If it makes you feel any better, I can't believe how dirty the aluminum case of the Macbook Pro gets. Maybe my hands are just dirty, but if I don't clean it every day or two then the wrist rests look like they've been oiled down and dried out.

well i find inmense pleasure in cleaning my mac

even if it never gets dirty

What the heck do you guys do with your compy's that makes them get dirty? :scared:

I just can't wait to supplement our MacBook with an iMac. Hopefully before the summer :)

BEYOND THE SWORD looks and sounds soo VERY F****** cool!!!!!!!!!

...but when will it come out for mac?

Please don't swear.

And maybe you'd like to enlighten us as to what or who is Beyond the Sword, and what it has to do with Civ4?

OK, got it. New Expansion Pack for Civ4. I wonder if Aspyr even know about it yet :rolleyes:

Bwahahahahhahahahhahahahahhahahaha

What the heck do you guys do with your compy's that makes them get dirty? :scared:

My Powermac G5 sits in my room and sucks up dust with its mighty fan assemblies ;)

Most computers run better if you clean them occasionally.

heading slightly off topic...

My gf and I both got one those silicone keyboard covers (me for my 15" powerbook, her for her macbook). Her computer was brand new, and I think it has really helped keep the computer clean. The cover fits really well over the macbook's keys and you don't even notice it.

wasn't quite has happy with the fit over the bevelled edges of the powerbook keyboard. Plus it has basically trapped in the 2yrs of crumbs and dust, which are now working their way up and sticking to the underside of the keyboard cover.

well i find inmense pleasure in cleaning my mac
Is that what the kids are calling it these days?

ha, real funny.

I'm dead until it comes out for mac, I hate Aspyr sooooo much! They're so damn lazy! [pissed]

I'm dead until it comes out for mac, I hate Aspyr sooooo much! They're so damn lazy! [pissed]

It's summer. Go out and play with your friends, get some fresh air and move your body.

You'll thank me for that in 10-20 years.

Narmox.

It's summer. Go out and play with your friends, get some fresh air and move your body.

You'll thank me for that in 10-20 years.

Narmox.

Hehehe, all my friends are at sleep away camp. I'll find something to do though...:lol: I probably will thank you for that in ten to twenty years:lol: .

yeah i hate the way aspyr takes years to release anything

Hold on, guys! It's still well over a month from release for Windows!

I think we're all forgetting how quickly Aspyr delivered Civ4 and Warlords. I took them months not years. Which is (as far as I know) a very fast job at porting a game for the mac.

What, do you work for them? :lol:

Yes, it's amazing how quickly a company can put out products by skipping the testing cycle.

Meh, this is kind of ridiculous. You're already berating Aspyr because they haven't brought out a Mac version of an expansion not yet available for windows. Civ IV was fairly slow, but Warlords came out pretty soon after the windows release, so I see no particular reason to panic, moan, and gnash one's teeth just yet.

As far as the testing goes. Well, judging by the wide variety of different problems people using the exact same hardware seem to experience (and the total lack of problems some people experience) I'm not hugely surprised that Aspyr's testing didn't catch them.

My impression is that the number of beta testers may have been very limited - do you know of any? This was even more true on the Intel platform which was only just rolling out when these games first hit the streets. The overlapping set of

[Intel Mac users] ∩ [Civ4 players] ∩ [eligible beta testers]

was probably pretty tiny at that time.

I'm not defending Aspyr on this - if the beta test community wasn't available they should have widened the eligibility criteria and/or done more intensive in-house testing.

As far as the testing goes. Well, judging by the wide variety of different problems people using the exact same hardware seem to experience (and the total lack of problems some people experience) I'm not hugely surprised that Aspyr's testing didn't catch them.

Heh. Did you have a copy when it was released?

I'm not defending Aspyr on this - if the beta test community wasn't available they should have widened the eligibility criteria and/or done more intensive in-house testing.

They didn't solicit any outsiders publicly, as was done with the most recent Civ 3.

It wasn't just the Intel users that had considerable problems, however. It was pretty obvious, in my opinion, that it was rushed out the door without being tested. The audio problems and CPU-bogging problems should have been immediately noticeable to any tester.

I agree. I was only citing the Intel case as a more extreme situation they had to deal with. But they didn't deal with testing for either platform any where near adequately.

PS They didn't respond to at least one unsolicited offer to beta test, either :p

Heh. Did you have a copy when it was released?

I've used the original and patches (beta), A,B, and C (not used warlords). Lacked some sounds on the original (though not many), worked fine with no bugs at all on (beta) and patch A. My sounds all disappeared on patch B, but came back on patch C (which was released almost immediately afterwards).

I know a lot of other people have had much worse problems, I just haven't.

I wouldn't be surprised if BtS isn't ported to the mac. Second expansions generally do not sell as well as the first expansions. I suppose it depends on how much Take2 is going to want from Aspyr in return. But, since BtS is going to contain the core functionality of Warlords, Aspyr should have a jump on the process and knowledge of bugs that haunted/haunt Civ4 and Warlords.

Warlords PC release date: July 24, 2006
Warlords Mac release date: November 13, 2006

If it isn't released for mac by December 2007 we should starts some riots! Hehe. :lol: Seriously. Could we start a petition like the one the poles did ("petition to add poland as a civ")? To get aspyr to do it faster? :hmm:

Aspyr will do BtS if and when the business case is justifiable. That will need a *lot* of potential sales. A dozen or two petitioners here are not going to change their minds.

Interesting that Electronic Arts has committed to coming back into the Mac games market again today.

Aspyr will do BtS if and when the business case is justifiable. That will need a *lot* of potential sales. A dozen or two petitioners here are not going to change their minds.

Interesting that Electronic Arts has committed to coming back into the Mac games market again today.

That is wonderful news regarding EA's return. I'll definitely pick up Madden08.

Aspyr will do BtS if and when the business case is justifiable. That will need a *lot* of potential sales. A dozen or two petitioners here are not going to change their minds.

Interesting that Electronic Arts has committed to coming back into the Mac games market again today.

Whatever, I'd still like to do the petition. Hehe. :lol:

I asked the guys in the chat about BtS when it'll come out for mac, they said "soon" after the release of pc! I dont know what that means...But its sounds good...

I asked the guys in the chat about BtS when it'll come out for mac, they said "soon" after the release of pc! I dont know what that means...But its sounds good...

Well, that may spur Aspyr on to make an announcement. I'm wagering Aspyr wants to hold off until they can make an announcement about BtS and release a couple patches for [civ3mac] [civ4] and [c4w] - a small wager - at the same time. ;)

How much? :)

How much? :)
I'm assuming you mean how much time? Thunderfall says around winter, but I'd say that winter isn't very "soon". I'd say around September or August even! But I'm glad they said there will definately be a mac version of BtS. :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D
Scroll down and you'll see me ask them:
Download the chat HERE (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?p=5563190#post5563190)

No, sorry, I was referring to Dojo's "a small wager" :p

Oh my god, I'm going to die...Charles De Gaulle is IN!!!! I have to wait :sad: and wait :coffee: and wait :wallbash: and wait :suicide:...

Hmm. Odds are, I'll end up buying the BtS Civ IV expansion pack when it comes out for the Macintosh, if for nothing else other than to say that I own the original Civ IV game plus both expansion packs.

Gatekeeper

Hmm. Odds are, I'll end up buying the BtS Civ IV expansion pack when it comes out for the Macintosh, if for nothing else other than to say that I own the original Civ IV game plus both expansion packs.

Gatekeeper

I'll be waiting for it too, I'm not spamming up my computer with windows just for one game. Meanwhile I'll be trying to get my hands on a nintendo wii...wish me luck, I'll need it.(It's freeking impossible!!) :cry:

Meanwhile I'll be trying to get my hands on a nintendo wii...wish me luck, I'll need it.(It's freeking impossible!!) :cry:

Got one! :D Fun, fun, fun.

Got one! :D Fun, fun, fun.

I hate you.
:joke:
It's so damn hard to get one! :mad: :mad: :mad:

Just get a PS3 or Xbox 360 ... I hear both of those consoles are quite easy to find. ;)

Just get a PS3 or Xbox 360 ... I hear both of those consoles are quite easy to find. ;)

But the question is: Are they fun??
Anyway lets get back on topic...

But the question is: Are they fun??
Anyway lets get back on topic...

Party I went to last week the host had a PS3 connected up to an HD projector -- all payed for by his work (it's good to be a Comp. Sci.) it seemed quite fun, they were playing "Resistance". I was a bit pished, however.

But the question is: Are they fun??
Anyway lets get back on topic...

OT: A little something for you dutchking. From my current HOI2: DDA game. France has captured Berlin! ;)

http://home.comcast.net/~dojoboy/de_gaulle.jpg

OT: A little something for you dutchking. From my current HOI2: DDA game. France has captured Berlin! ;)

http://home.comcast.net/~dojoboy/de_gaulle.jpg

Whoa! What game is that? What Console? What Platform? What GAme!!!?! :please:

It's Hearts of Iron II, and I expect it's on a "Mac" console :p

i never understood how to use HOI2

RECOMMENDED SYSTEM REQUIREMENTS:

1.8GHz Intel Pentium 4 or AMD Athlon processor or equivalent/better
512 MB RAM
128 MD Video Card w/ DirectX 8 support (pixel and vertex shaders)
DirectX 9.0c compatible sound card
CD-ROM Drive
1.7GB of free hard drive space
DirectX 9.0c (included)
MINIMUM SYSTEM REQUIREMENTS:
1.2GHz Intel Pentium 4 or AMD Athlon processor or equivalent
256MB RAM
CD-ROM Drive
64 MB Video Card w/Hardware T&L (GeForce 2/Radeon 7500 or better)
DirectX 9.0c compatible sound card
1.7 GB of free hard drive space
Direct X 9.0c (included)
^this was on the BtS official website.
Are the requirements the same with the mac? Because if so the graphics will look the same with my GMA 950 graphics (intel integrated) as my iMac. Wow...I doubt it though. :cry: The macbook has the GMA 950, it's my personal comp. The iMac isn't as available most the time so I play it on here...

BtS will use the same video code as the other Civ4 titles, and so will perform similarly. The problem with the GMA950 is the poor way OS X and OpenGL works with it. That seems to make it perform worse on a Mac than it does under Windows and DirectX.

BtS will use the same video code as the other Civ4 titles, and so will perform similarly. The problem with the GMA950 is the poor way OS X and OpenGL works with it. That seems to make it perform worse on a Mac than it does under Windows and DirectX.

Damit...This is the way that (just a random leader) looks on my macbook:
http://www.mypicshare.com/thumbs/20070704/ukuwwf4p.jpg (http://www.mypicshare.com/ukuwwf4ppic.html)
On the iMac (different game, same leader):
http://www.mypicshare.com/thumbs/20070704/ws5bxwvr.jpg (http://www.mypicshare.com/ws5bxwvrpic.html)
BIG difference...:cry: Click for a larger view...It looks alright on the macbook but it's still not pleasing...

i use an imac and i get the same messed up leader with pixelly edges as you.

i use an imac and i get the same messed up leader with pixelly edges as you.

You've probably got the iMac model with the GMA 950 in it. For a hundred bucks more you could've gotten it with an ATI Radeon. That's the iMac I have. It's great man! :p I know it's impossible to upgrade my graphics card on my macbook, but you could probably upgrade yours, I'm not sure though. The GMA 950's are usually hooked to the motherboard, like mine on the macbook. :( :cry:

You've probably got the iMac model with the GMA 950 in it. For a hundred bucks more you could've gotten it with an ATI Radeon. That's the iMac I have. It's great man! :p I know it's impossible to upgrade my graphics card on my macbook, but you could probably upgrade yours, I'm not sure though. The GMA 950's are usually hooked to the motherboard, like mine on the macbook. :( :cry:

Nope, you cannot upgrade the iMac's video card. At least, it's not designed for it. ;)

Nope, you cannot upgrade the iMac's video card. At least, it's not designed for it. ;)

Yeah, my dad wants to rip the GMA 950 off of the mother board on my macbook. :lol: The problem is to find a graphics card that will work with it...:wallbash:

Trade it in and buy one with a decent card.

Trade it in and buy one with a decent card.

I could'nt do that to my little macbook! But I was thinking of possibly, when I'm older, giving this to my sister and getting a Macbook Pro. That would be nice. Otherwise I'm stuck with this for a while. :dunno:

Hey guys,
I've decided to give in and get windows. Who cares as long as you get that pleased feeling in your stomach...And apparently (for Sebiche) the Graphics with primitive machines are better and it's also faster in Windows. You guys shouldn't, but it is always an option:
Cheap OEM software (http://www.amazon.com/Microsoft-Windows-Home-System-Builders/dp/B000JTFVME/ref=cm_lmf_tit_8/105-3311822-1904404)
Even though I've given in, I want you guys to know. You will always be my people. Yes, I feel that strongly about it...:salute:

As long as you are using a Mac machine, you're a Mac user. I use to have a PC and use Windows, but there were those crashes. My sister had always been a fanatical Mac user with a PPC.

When OS X came out with the promise of greater system stability, I bought an PPC. I still miss the fact that the PC game section is a lot larger than the Mac game section.

But I love the fact that I don't have to worry about crashes, viri, worms, and so on.

It will be interesting to see what kind of problems arise when you are operating Windows on a Mac Intel machine.

It will be interesting to see what kind of problems arise when you are operating Windows on a Mac Intel machine.

So far I have had none. However, I am supremely careful about what I do Windows-side. I only go to trusted websites if I have to browse, which I actually try not to do at all. (I haven't installed virus software because I don't want it slowing everything down so I just practice safe browsing or wait to browse Mac-side.) I play City of Heroes and some older games and everything works like a charm.

Not getting Civ IV for Windows just for BTS, though, unless it turns out they won't be releasing it for Mac at all. Which seems unlikely.

BtS will use the same video code as the other Civ4 titles, and so will perform similarly. The problem with the GMA950 is the poor way OS X and OpenGL works with it. That seems to make it perform worse on a Mac than it does under Windows and DirectX.

Obviously still a few months away, but then again so will BtS if it makes it to the Mac: Leopard looks to include a Low Level Virtual Machine (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Low_Level_Virtual_Machine) which might play a big hand in aiding graphics performance, especially those with integrated video cards.

Obviously still a few months away, but then again so will BtS if it makes it to the Mac: Leopard looks to include a Low Level Virtual Machine (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Low_Level_Virtual_Machine) which might play a big hand in aiding graphics performance, especially those with integrated video cards.

A few months away? Do you think it's a safe assumption that it will be out by Christmas?

It is probably safe to assume Leopard will be out by Christmas. Leopard will be previewed at an Apple show and Apple must realize that sales will be better if the release is before Christmas.

I doubt if Leopard will be delayed beyond its scheduled October release, but I suspect wgh_2001 wants to know about the BtS schedule. Personally, I'm not holding my breathe for a Mac BtS release ... at any date. I'll just be thankful for a patch release to match the latest Windows versions of Civ4 and Warlords.

Re. LLVM capability, even if Leopard includes it, and even if it does wonders for DirectX/OpenGL performance, I wonder if Aspyr will rely on it for sales of a Civ4 expansion kit?

Personally, I'm not holding my breathe for a Mac BtS release ... at any date. I'll just be thankful for a patch release to match the latest Windows versions of Civ4 and Warlords.

So all hope is lost for continued Macintosh game addons for Civ4, which is too bad. Reminds me of the days before OS X when AutoCAD for the Mac came out. They said the user base for PC's was larger. AutoCAD could only be used under an earlier Macintosh operating system and was discontinued for lack of users. There was no support or updates after that point..... I am still hoping for BTS though.

Well, I'm no authority on the future of Civ4 for Mac, and I should make it clear that I was expressing a personal opinion re. BtS. It's purely based on:

(a) the lack of any announcements from Aspyr - I would have expected them to ride the publicity wave for the Windows release and to pre-announce that they planned one to generate interest. The fact that they haven't done so implies to me that they haven't decided whether to do it at all.

(b) I've seen figures for Warlords indicating that a rather low percentage of Mac users are buying expansions to the original product.

But maybe I'm just being an unduly pessimistic, grumpy old man. :old:

(a) the lack of any announcements from Aspyr - I would have expected them to ride the publicity wave for the Windows release and to pre-announce that they planned one to generate interest. The fact that they haven't done so implies to me that they haven't decided whether to do it at all.

Or, rather more likely, they want to do it but haven't come to an agreement with Firaxis yet, and making any kind of announcement before such an agreement exists would be virtually guaranteed to lose them the license.

Agreed. My shorthand reference to "haven't decided whether to" was intended to cover that eventuality. Achieving a mutually acceptable agreement with Firaxis is, of course, part of the decision process.

Should I go out and buy a Mac copy of Warlords, just to help the process along?

Every little helps ;)

Hmm. Well, you'd think with Apple's continually increasing sales of their laptop and desktop computers, more and more folks would be getting involved with Mac gaming. iPod and iPhone aside, Apple does still sell (great) computers!

Gatekeeper

Every little bit helps ;)


Hmm. Well, you'd think with Apple's continually increasing sales of their laptop and desktop computers, more and more folks would be getting involved with Mac gaming. iPod and iPhone aside, Apple does still sell (great) computers!

Hopefully as the amount of users grows, so to will the amount of gaming programs for the Mac. I have Warlords, so maybe "BtS" just received a bit of a nudge in the right direction (nudge nudge)... :)

Well, you'd think with Apple's continually increasing sales of their laptop and desktop computers, more and more folks would be getting involved with Mac gaming. iPod and iPhone aside, Apple does still sell (great) computers!

If you read some of the threads in this forum, many Mac users are having problems with vanilla. That might be discouraging them from buying Warlords. So even if more and more folks are getting involved with Mac gaming, it doesn't mean sales of Warlords will go up.

I was all set to buy Warlords, but then I saw some of the problems that people were having, and I realized it wouldn't run on my system (macbook). We're hoping to get an iMac in a few months, so I'll certainly get both Warlords and Beyond the Sword at that point :cheers:

^It'll run, it, and pretty fast on a macbook, it just won't have great graphics...

If you read some of the threads in this forum, many Mac users are having problems with vanilla. That might be discouraging them from buying Warlords. So even if more and more folks are getting involved with Mac gaming, it doesn't mean sales of Warlords will go up.

I am aware of problems in the past, having experienced a few of them myself (mainly the sound issues), but haven't had anything noticeably wrong since applying the patches.

I wonder if it's PPC legacy machines mostly affected, Intel or both, and how many are "borderline" in terms of being able to run Civ IV.

Gatekeeper

I wonder if it's PPC legacy machines mostly affected, Intel or both, and how many are "borderline" in terms of being able to run Civ IV.

Both systems seem to experience problems. Some problems are PPC specific, some are x86 specific, and some effect both. Sometimes one person gets lots of problems and another person on the self-same hardware gets almost none -- it seems totally random based upon the purely anecdotal evidence on this site.

Both systems seem to experience problems. Some problems are PPC specific, some are x86 specific, and some effect both. Sometimes one person gets lots of problems and another person on the self-same hardware gets almost none -- it seems totally random based upon the purely anecdotal evidence on this site.

I seemed to have had very few problems, except for the slowness which showed up when Vanilla Civ4 was first released. Since the patches, very few hiccups after them. I also increased the amount of RAM (3GB) recently and the sound glitches seemed to have gone away. Like you say I think its random, but I bet the factors are traceable to a source. However finding that source might be like trying to find a needle in a haystack.

i want to get BtS, and Aspyr and Mac need to cooperate more, they've done all this so far, they need to get going on it, its totally discriminatory because of the fact that macs are not the majority, the PC's are. I have an intel based powerbook, and my warlords works awesome on it. I am not giving in to buying the Windows on my mac. step it up aspyr!

its totally discriminatory because of the fact that macs are not the majority, the PC's are.

Ignoring a format with poor market penetration and generally poor and/or overpriced gaming hardware is not discriminatory, it's common sense.

i want to get BtS, and Aspyr and Mac need to cooperate more, they've done all this so far, they need to get going on it, its totally discriminatory because of the fact that macs are not the majority, the PC's are. I have an intel based powerbook, and my warlords works awesome on it. I am not giving in to buying the Windows on my mac. step it up aspyr!

:wavey: Hi Aco! I completely understand your frustration. I'm not sure it's discriminatory, rather most likely it's economics. In any case, have you written the same sentiment to Aspyr directly? They'll never hear you if you only post here ;)

overall, there needs to be a universal binary system in place for games like this, where mac is severely backed up on the game end of things. Programming in universal is not that bad of an idea.

I'm still hoping for Beyond the Sword Mac version. I hate runing Civ+Vista on my MacBook, far to many errors

Gimme gimme!

step it up aspyr!

As I have asserted elsewhere (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?p=5907716#post5907716), I do not believe it is Aspyr letting you down. They provide only what they are paid for, they are guns for hire. The folks who most need to hear from you are the folks hiring the mercenaries, the ones that have a instituted development process that ensures Mac users have no choice but to pay full price for a delayed and inferior product.

BTW: I sent an e-mail to pr@aspyr.com yesterday telling them that I would buy it when they release it.

Cheers.

Oh my god ! What j*rks (the one who made the game) !!!
I looked at the new leaders in the game and those ********* are saying that CHarles de Gaulle was the Prime Minister of France !!!
He never was !!!

Where can we complain about those things ?

PS : Apart from that the new features seem great !

Oh my god ! What j*rks (the one who made the game) !!!
I looked at the new leaders in the game and those ********* are saying that CHarles de Gaulle was the Prime Minister of France !!!
He never was !!!

Where can we complain about those things ?

PS : Apart from that the new features seem great !

According to Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_de_Gaulle), he was the 124th prime minister. 1944--1946.

... and the 149th in 1958-1959

Between 1944 and 1946 he was the president of a temporary government, he was both president of the republic and "prime minister". In 1958, he was for 2 months the "prime minister" of the last president of the IVth Republic, he then became president for the next 10 years, we can't even compare his professed "prime minister" job to his president mandate.

I say BTS will be out for mac any month now...:lol: Maybe November or December. I'll take a look at Aspyr...they announced warlords for mac around this time last year.

Between 1944 and 1946 he was the president of a temporary government, he was both president of the republic and "prime minister". In 1958, he was for 2 months the "prime minister" of the last president of the IVth Republic, he then became president for the next 10 years, we can't even compare his professed "prime minister" job to his president mandate.

Yeah, but in Europe a president is like the Queen of England. :queen:

:D

Yeah, but in Europe a president is like the Queen of England. :queen:

:D

Not in France, not at all, in contrary, the President of the French Republic has a lot of power and he's elected by the people directly. It's more like a ruling king, elected every 5 years, not like the king/queen of England who doesn't rule at all.

Not in France, not at all, in contrary, the President of the French Republic has a lot of power and he's elected by the people directly. It's more like a ruling king, elected every 5 years, not like the king/queen of England who doesn't rule at all.

Just yanking your chain. ;)

Where is BtS for Mac btw?

I second that call for BtS Soon™!
it better be out before Xmas or I am *gulp* loading windows on a new mac just so's I can play BtS and gamespy CIV... <ominous music plays>

Yeah, they really need to get on it...I want to see all the new features. This marks the only time I've been depressed about owning a Mac.

I have windows on my mac strictly only for modding and better performance on Civ. Otherwise I'll always be pro mac. Always have been, don't be depressed LOL. It'll come out eventually. :D Aspyr is just F*ED up. Nothing we can do about it. :(

I need BtS!

I need BtS!

dojoboy's Christmas list:

(1) Nintendo DSLite (for CivRev in '08)
(2) Leopard
(3) Windows XP

^lol.
You won't be sorry, I have had windows for a while now and I must say I was very biased before, I'm actually quite pleased with the performance. It's not as bad as they say it is after you have it set up to your preferences, although when you first get it is very annoying to get used to, but you will. And another thing, the first thing to do when you're a mac user who just got windows:
1. Change the themes in windows to look shiny.
2. Get Firefox and make it look like Safari. :smug:
Remember 1 thing: If you don't F* it up everything will be alright. :)

Alternative to #2: get Safari for Windows... :P

Any word as of yet?

heh, I guess not, otherwise a huge fuss would have made headlines around here :D

See this thread for recent straws in the wind from Aspyr.

why is BtS taking so long?! why hasnt the patch even come close to comming!?!?! why isnt aspyr hurrying the hell up like they should! oh god i cant stand it. i mean, its bad enough that we dont have the patch (i cant play an effing game with the rainbow glitch lurking around, OR play an online game with internet connection like anyone else would) but i mean WE HAVENT EVEN HEARD about them making BtS!!

why do we get ignored in this sense?

We're not getting ignored. You can be quite confident that there are (good) reasons for it, whether they be technical, legal, or otherwise. Aspyr knows full well which side their bread is buttered on (i.e. making customers happy).

It's tough to look at the BOTM spoilers--BtS sounds pretty cool. I guess I'll stick with the vanilla GOTM for now.

what is this BOTM?

what is this BOTM?

It is the monthly version of CFC's Game Of The Month - GOTM - with the BtS expansion.

GOTM (http://gotm.civfanatics.net/)

We're not getting ignored. You can be quite confident that there are (good) reasons for it, whether they be technical, legal, or otherwise. Aspyr knows full well which side their bread is buttered on (i.e. making customers happy).

But if so they should let us know .....

But if so they should let us know .....

If some of the problems are legal they might well not be allowed to.

But if so they should let us know .....

Well, they don't advertise why there is a delay, but they might let you know if you contact them. I did so, through their support site, and they replied that MP bugs were the issue.

Edit: My reply is in regard to the Warlords patch.

Well, they don't advertise why there is a delay, but they might let you know if you contact them. I did so, through their support site, and they replied that MP bugs were the issue.
I saw you post that with respect to the release of the Warlords 2.13 patch. Are you saying they've also given this reply for a BtS release? If so, it's the first firm statement I've heard from Aspyr that BtS is even in the pipeline.

I saw you post that with respect to the release of the Warlords 2.13 patch. Are you saying they've also given this reply for a BtS release? If so, it's the first firm statement I've heard from Aspyr that BtS is even in the pipeline.

Oops. Nope, I erroneously replied to what in my mind was a statement about the Warlords patch. I'll edit it.

You Civ-whore! ;)

I like the idea of founding corporations and spreading their corporate tendrils throughout the world. :) It reminds me somewhat of Morgan in SMAC.

I Think The GOLD edtion Is Out And It Has All Three Ya

When will "Beyond the Sword" come out for mac?
Beyond the Sword will not come out for mac.

Beyond the Sword will not come out for mac.

And your source is...?

The fact that its been 6+ months and not a word from Aspyr.

Is there any proof that there will be?

The fact that its been 6+ months and not a word from Aspyr.

Is there any proof that there will be?

Does anyone remember the time span between the Windows and Mac version of Warlords?

No proof that there will be is NOT proof that there will not be.

Civ IV timeline:

2005/10/19
Civ IV goes gold, ships to retailers October 25th.

2005/10/27
Aspyr Media will do Mac port early next year.

2006/6/26
Civ IV for Mac now shipping.

2006/7/6
Warlords goes gold.

2006/7/24
Warlords ships.

2006/8/29
Aspyr Media will do Mac version of Warlords.

2006/11/14
Warlords for Mac ships.

2007/7/23
BTS ships. Firaxis site too full of news about Civilization Revolution! to have a news item about BTS shipping.

2007/7/25
Welnic downloads BTS from Direct2Drive.

2007/10/8
Mac Civ IV patch 1.74 released.

2006/7/24
Warlords ships.

2006/8/29
Aspyr Media will do Mac version of Warlords.

2006/11/14
Warlords for Mac ships.
...
A span of 4 months for Warlords, its been 7 since BTS came out for Windows, not even an announcement.

And the Warlords version 2.13 patch has also been out for Windows for seven months. Aspyr have stated that they were working on it last year, but there's still no word as to when it will arrive for Mac ... if ever.

Hate to be a rain on your guys parade, but I've already gotten Windows (in July). :p
Its not that hard if you guys really want it, just look on amazon for a OEM version of windows (its the same as regular windows, just 100$ cheaper and the only thing you loose is that it costs money to call microsoft) and get bootcamp. I'm here if you have any questions. Assuming it won't come out for mac. You can load mods easier and everything too. I don't like windows itself, but its done a decent job.

I really hate aspyr.

Hate to be a rain on your guys parade, but I've already gotten Windows (in July). :p
Its not that hard if you guys really want it, just look on amazon for a OEM version of windows (its the same as regular windows, just 100$ cheaper and the only thing you loose is that it costs money to call microsoft) and get bootcamp. I'm here if you have any questions. Assuming it won't come out for mac. You can load mods easier and everything too. I don't like windows itself, but its done a decent job.I still have a G5 :mad: and playing on my MacBook isn't fun either (to small screen)

I am on the cusp of either going for Crossover (Orange Box) or Windows (bootcamp and most any windows game - really thinking hard about Halo2)

I am sick of 'ports' being half a shipping product...
crippled mods, no MP for Warlords, nonexistent support.

Oh well, Spore will be along this Fall.

I am on the cusp of either going for Crossover (Orange Box) or Windows (bootcamp and most any windows game - really thinking hard about Halo2)

I am sick of 'ports' being half a shipping product...
crippled mods, no MP for Warlords, nonexistent support.

Oh well, Spore will be along this Fall.

And CivRev in April, for my DS. :D Spore will also be on the DS, which surprises me.

I really hate aspyr.

I'm no where near hating them, just frustrated. They did grab the rights to Civ when Macsoft Games let them lapse. They gave us C3C, and Civ4 + Warlords. I like to believe they're swamped with projects, so nailing down the MP bug in the delayed patch is a real issue for them.

I'm no where near hating them, just frustrated. They did grab the rights to Civ when Macsoft Games let them lapse. They gave us C3C, and Civ4 + Warlords.

I second that.

I'm not a fanboy of Aspyr, or any publisher for that matter, but they did give us C3C, when no one though it would still happen! You can't just deny the good that has been done the moment you feel like it.

I suspect that the problem may be more Firaxis than Aspyr.

I suspect that the problem may be more Firaxis than Aspyr.

How so? I'd be surprised, given the relationship between the two, if Firaxis was the issue.

The problem *could* be with Firaxis.

The BtS software inlcudes a lot of fan-built adaptations. Therefore it might include some of the XML/Python incompatibilities that have caused us so much grief when trying to run mods on the Mac versions of Civ4. I can confirm that BBEdit does find 'gremlins' in at least one BtS XML file (CIV4DiplomacyText_BTS.xml). So if that file fails to load when Aspyr ports BtS to a Mac, then that alone would be enough to cause problems.

We can choose to fix the incompatible mods and carry on. if we want to play cross-platform modded games we can persuade our Windows friends to use our version of the mod. Aspyr could only do that with the core BtS software if (a) they can persuade Firaxis to adopt the changes they have to make, or (b) they accept that the Aspyr version will not run multi-player against Windows.

I could live with option (b), as I only have to support single-player activities in the GOTM series', and I have no interest in multi-player gaming - single or cross-platform. But I'm sure there are many other potential BtS customers who would not be so forgiving, and Firaxis themselves may reject a Mac version that is not cross-platform. So Aspyr may prefer, or require, option (a), but be unable to persuade Firaxis to re-release BtS with the changes they would need. They could be between a rock and a hard place.

DISCLAIMER: All of the above is pure speculation. I have no inside track in Aspyr, and I don't know for sure that the BtS XML is incompatible with OS X. I simply offer this as a possible justification for Bazzalisk's suspicion.

BtS is one thing, i could see how it may be hard/impossible to make MP work with all the DLL stuff in the PC version...

but Warlords multiplayer WORKED
now it DOESN'T
it says gamespy on the box and it doesn't work
if I knew more about the law I'd start thinking about a class action suit or some similar bad press to light a fire under aspyr

basically the Warlords issue has soured me on aspyr products: better to give my money to other companies if these folks can't deliver what it says on the box

@enkiduMT: Please note that this thread is about BtS. If you want to post a rant about Warlords, I recommend you move it to another thread.

My first sentence clearly states an opinion about BtS, the rest relates to aspyr's lack of performance and support for CIV mac products. Maybe internet crossplatform multiplay doesn't matter to you AH, but it does to some players.

'Rant'? sheesh
whatever

I only asked, politely, I thought, that you stick to the subject of this thread when posting to it.

I am not trying to suppress your views about cross-platform Warlords play, and I am well aware that it is a major issue for many players. I hope I haven't implied otherwise. I simply encouraged you to express your concerns where they will not be buried in a BtS thread!

Hi,

When will Beyond the Sword be available for the Mac?

Rosy

xxxxxxxxxx

Hi,

When will Beyond the Sword be available for the Mac?

Rosy

It would seem it's on indefinite hold.

The latest scoop (http://www.insidemacgames.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=32933&st=0#) from Glenda Adams of Aspyr, as posted at IMG. (see post #18)

I think the sub-text is, "Don't hold your breath" :(

So Glenda said:
"I'd love for us to do Civ: BTS for Mac. I can't say absolutely we'll never do it (thank goodness!) but also can't say 100% we are going to do it. There are non-technical reasons it hasn't come to the Mac yet, and being in Development, those are out of my control, unfortunately. In a perfect world we'd have ported it and released it simultaneous with the PC (which we could have done technically), but for no single person's or company's fault it didn't happen that way."

Can anyone here think of any non-technical reason other than money that is holding this up?

Money is always at the root of any business problem. There is no such thing as an impossible problem, within the laws of Physics, if you are prepared to throw enough money at it. I don't think the laws of physics are under threat from the technology within BtS. However, if the amount of money required exceeds the return they think they can make then they won't do it.

Money is always at the root of any business problem. There is no such thing as an impossible problem, within the laws of Physics, if you are prepared to throw enough money at it. I don't think the laws of physics are under threat from the technology within BtS. However, if the amount of money required exceeds the return they think they can make then they won't do it.

Sounds like a marketing problem - it's a great title, but none of the Mac game companies seem to be very good at tapping the significantly increased user base. Maybe if they all merged...

i would have guessed that they were still trying to convert the fanmade mods into mac friendly apps (not .exe), but it's been far too long. now they're probably all focused on Revolution. If it turns out crappy, i'm pissed that they wasted their time over macs

Forget about the expansions, we want Civ4 Complete, as seen on Windows... oh, and it's cheaper than Vanilla Mac.

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/61pIaFku8wL._SS500_.jpg

Oh, and as it will be 3x the PC price, it would be nice to get it in the Special Edition Bible cover.

a lot of game industries just put the expansion in with the vanillas in a lot of games...like RoN, so that may be what they are looking to do (hopefully)

a lot of game industries just put the expansion in with the vanillas in a lot of games...like RoN, so that may be what they are looking to do (hopefully)

Unfortunately, that's not the case w/ BtS. Glenda, from Aspyr posted at IMG that it was non-technical reasons for the indefinite hold on the mac BtS.

post (http://www.insidemacgames.com/forum/index.php?s=&showtopic=32933&view=findpost&p=340724)

I got tired of waiting to pay more for an inferior product. I bought Civ Complete, and have been enjoying BtS running on Parallels for a few weeks.

It's rock solid, fast (it doesn't slow down in the end-games), and completely enjoyable. Buying Aspyr products at this point seems to be a fool's errand.

@5150: I too run Civ4 Complete in Parallels, though I don't play full games - I only use it for my GOTM support activities round here. Have you found a way in Parallels to see all the graphics?

On my system, leaderheads are only partially drawn - the 'Cheshire Cat' syndrome. There are also some situations where I see a brief map display without the fog of war. It's as if the translation process for DirectX -> OGL is not handling all the drawing layers all of the time. Maybe its down to my 7300GT hardware?

Bootcamp....

I get no graphics bugs, it looks great. In Macintosh my Card was below specs. (contrasting the lie on the box...)

Never! I refuse to reboot OUT of OS X INTO Windows, just to run a game!

On my system, leaderheads are only partially drawn - the 'Cheshire Cat' syndrome. There are also some situations where I see a brief map display without the fog of war. It's as if the translation process for DirectX -> OGL is not handling all the drawing layers all of the time. Maybe its down to my 7300GT hardware?

I have the same issue. It's minor enough to me that I didn't even think about it when writing my last post. Compared to all of the graphics bugs on the Mac version, it's nothing.

It seems to only effect the leaders that originally shipped with Civ 4. Those that came with the expansion packs (BtS for sure, and I think Warlords) appear just fine.

That's the last time I buy from Aspyr. It's just plain stupid to continue buying mac games. Awful ports, awful patches, not getting Beyond the Sword. I'm just going to buy Vista. There's no way a sane person would continue get any games on the mac.

That's the last time I buy from Aspyr. It's just plain stupid to continue buying mac games. Awful ports, awful patches, not getting Beyond the Sword. I'm just going to buy Vista. There's no way a sane person would continue get any games on the mac.

If you want to run games, you might be better off with XP.

meh, in Canada they're both practically the same price. Better off with Vista, you get Direct X 10

As much as I want all my games to be able to run in OS X, I'm tired of waiting for Aspyr. I still hope they port it soon, but I'm buying a copy for Windows.

Never! I refuse to reboot OUT of OS X INTO Windows, just to run a game!

Not only that ... what about those guys using G5 Macintoshs. They cannot use Bootcamp at all. I am convinced there are still a lot of G5 users out there. What about them? Won't they play BtS, I am sure they want.

Yeah that really sucks. It really makes me want to switch to Linux even. I'm tired of all this compatibility and planned obsolesce crap laid down by those corporations. I really have given up on Aspyr though.

You're dissatisfied with the selection of software available on Mac, so you're going to switch to *Linux?* Honestly makes no sense to me.

Nah that's nt what I said.... if you look again you'll see that i'm disastified with Apple's and other's failure to remove obsolesense. Linux doesn't have that trouble. Don't see why I should support such a thing. As I wll reiterate, I am completely fed up with Aspyr though. Never said anything about software availability on Linux...........

It seems like the best solution would be for Firaxis to just write their games in a language more easily portable to other platforms. All of Blizzard's games, for example (diablo, starcraft, world of warcraft, etc), are Mac/Pc compatible on the same DVD!

I'm having fun playing Warlords again now that the patch came out and I downloaded teh HOF mod. But I'm sure very soon, I'll be bored again and anxious for BTS... come on Aspyr, I know you can, I know you can....

Well, that's it then. Time to execute the following equation:

Bootcamp + Windows XP (or Vista) + Civ IV for PC + BTS = No more waiting for the Mac version that never comes.

I hear that the PC version of BTS is rather buggy... a fair number of PC users are still playing Warlords. Perhaps Aspyr is waiting to port until Firaxis fixes things?

I played Pirates! in Bootcamp, the first pc game I've really played in bootcamp, and I have to say, it plays just fine. However, it really is a pain to relog into bootcamp. I didn't realize how much I start and stop games, and in between check email, dawdle in iCal, and check websites in Safari until I couldn't do any of those things.

Because there aren't any email clients or web browsers for PCs, right?

correct 5150, my email is all in Mail, about 13 years worth carefully organized email. My calendar is only in iCal and my Treo, and I *could* surf the web a bit in Internet Explorer, but I don't trust surfing the web in Windows, too many viruses and stuff. And besides, all my bookmarks and everything are in Safari. And of course, I much prefer the layout of everything in OS X so it's a pain using windows.

My apologies if something like this has already been posted.

I emailed Aspyr about the Beyond the Sword expansion and this is the email that I got.

Sorry, but the brief message is that, no, there will NEVER be a mac version of this expansion.

-----Begin email message----------
FROM:feedback@aspyr.com


I can understand you wish to know more about how we choose titles to port to Mac. We continually evaluate games to be brought over to the platform, looking at several factors including its popularity, whether the Mac market is interested in the game, whether the company that owns the rights is interested in having a Mac version, and how hard it would be to port over (for example, if a game using the same software engine has already been ported, it becomes much easier for us to have it done). Our customers are one of the sources of determining interest, so we thank you for your mail.

However the Civ 4 series is a bit different. Warlords did not produce a great number of sales, far less than was expected. There is also the problem of programing for Civ 4, now as I said above using the same engine as previous game usually makes porting new titles easier, that is not the case for the Civ 4 titles. While the actual game is fairly stable (not perfect of course) the code behind it on the PC side is a mess. This kind of thrown together code makes it difficult to port the game and fix problems that arise in the port. Due to the sheer number of problems we have encountered with working with the PC code for the Civ 4 titles it may be that production does not wish to have to go through it again. For instance when patching games it usually takes a couple of weeks or as much as eight weeks. Civ 4 patches take us months to program and test because of constant problems.

I wish I could give better news about BTS for Civ 4 but at this time we have no plans to port the expansion.

Have a nice day,
Aspyr

The above post was removed while I verified its authenticity with Aspyr, since it seemed significantly out of character.
My apologies to JunkerWoland for ever doubting you. Aspyr have since confirmed that it did originate from one of their support engineers, and asked me to add the following comment when restoring it:


The above response was poorly worded and Aspyr did not wish to imply that the base coding for Civilization 4 or Warlords was faulty. In reality the coding for the game is fine, it is just very complex, therefore making porting the game to Mac much more difficult than most games. While Aspyr is continually evaluate games to be brought over to the Mac platform, unfortunately at this time there are no plans to bring Beyond the Sword over to the Mac. There are many different reasons for Aspyr to have made this difficult decision.

EDIT:

nevermind

There is also the problem of programing for Civ 4, now as I said above using the same engine as previous game usually makes porting new titles easier, that is not the case for the Civ 4 titles. While the actual game is fairly stable (not perfect of course) the code behind it on the PC side is a mess.

I guess I'm more surprised with Firaxis, if what this fella says is true. Didn't Firaxis outsource one of the expansions for Civ3 or Civ4?

I have reinstated the above quote from memory
@Dojoboy: If I got the wrong text, please feel free to correct it

Look like I missed an interesting statement?

Look like I missed an interesting statement?

Until confirmed by the moderator, you missed an interesting rumor.

correct 5150, my email is all in Mail, about 13 years worth carefully organized email. My calendar is only in iCal and my Treo, and I *could* surf the web a bit in Internet Explorer, but I don't trust surfing the web in Windows, too many viruses and stuff. And besides, all my bookmarks and everything are in Safari. And of course, I much prefer the layout of everything in OS X so it's a pain using windows.

Perfectly understandable. After all, web browsers are so much different in Windows... It can get confusing! I mean, forward and backward buttons, go buttons, scroll bars... It's nothing like a Mac--nothing.

You confuse can't and won't.

Perfectly understandable. After all, web browsers are so much different in Windows... It can get confusing! I mean, forward and backward buttons, go buttons, scroll bars... It's nothing like a Mac--nothing.

You confuse can't and won't.

Seems to me you entirely failed to address his points. I happliy run without any virus or spyware protection and have since OS X 10.0.0 came out in 2001. For me, that precludes any prospect of using Windows to surf the web. As for the rest, you didn't offer any useful solutions (e.g., existing email and iCal). The only place he might be a little off is the bookmarks - I would guess he could use his current ones in Safari for Windows (although I could be wrong).

The only place he might be a little off is the bookmarks - I would guess he could use his current ones in Safari for Windows (although I could be wrong).

Of course. He could also use them in most other Windows browsers. But if they are anything like mine, they change. I add new ones, and delete or edit old ones. I also use and update logins that are maintained by Safari. If the changes are made on one computer you have to resync them to the other computer, just as you do for iCal and email. The fact that the two computers share the same hardware doesn't help at all. In fact it gets in the way, as you can't even network them, because they cannot run at the same time.

The issue is one of priorities. I refuse to use Bootcamp because I *can't* achieve my priorities when doing so. You could say it's because I *won't* change my priorities, but I don't see that this helps.

I have reinstated the mysterious disappearing post (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=6862354&postcount=188).

Make of it what you will :hmm:

Guess we'll just have to wait for Civ IV Complete.

I have reinstated the mysterious disappearing post (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=6862354&postcount=188).

Make of it what you will :hmm:

On Meet the Press last weekend, one of the journalist defined "gaffe" as "when a politician inadvertently tells the truth."

The original statement and the additional comment seem very reminiscent of some statements by candidates and the campaign spin that we are currently hearing in the U.S.

I think you did a good job disappearing the post while you confirmed the truth.

Bottom line: "at this time there are no plans to bring Beyond the Sword over to the Mac."

Civ4 Complete would still require someone to spend all those weeks and months converting "very complex code" to the Mac. I can't see it happening ... unless Brad's arrival back home changes the development timescale equation.

AlanH,

Have there been problems with Civ 4 on the PC side?

It took lots of patches to get to Windows versions of vanilla Civ4 that didn't crash, and video drivers were an ever-present problem in the early days. Version 1.74 is quite a high number! We didn't invent "black ice" on the Mac, it was around on the PC first. There is still a rumoured patch proposed to fix some open issues with BtS.

I imagine we are suffering some of those problems, plus new ones created by the need to convert DirectX to OpenGL and OpenAL. There are probably extra issues for PowerPC Macs, with byte order reversal required.

Alan, thanks again for working so hard to moderate our forums. I'm glad to get some conclusive-type answer out of Aspyr, although extremely disappointed.

Similar to the previous poster, I think the "gaffe" was a truth, and I've had the impression the game, while super fun, has been poorly written over the years. I actually first felt this way back in like 2001 with Civ3 on PC when I first had coloring/black ice type problems - after a patch it was fine. But Civ 4 has been filled with problems for a lot of people on both PC and Mac side. Interestingly enough, I was cruising around the forums and off to game review site about Civilization Revolution, and in one of Sid's interviews, I remember him saying something to the effect of enjoying writing Civ Revolutions for consoles without any pre-existing code and just writing from the ground up. I don't know if these topics really relate, but in my mind I draw a link... seems like Civilization has been patched and upgraded and tweaked so much through the years, perhaps a fresh re-writing of the whole thing is in order?

On that note, I wonder if the console game Civilization Revolution will be ported to computers, PC or Mac? After reading about them, I kind of like the idea of less details and faster pace, and better graphics and interface. But I don't want to go spend $600 on a PS3 (ok I kind of want to, but geesh they're expensive).

Anyway, I've said it before, I sure wish Firaxis would write all of their Civ games to be Mac-compatible from the beginning like Blizzard does for their games.

I think there is a problem when a TBS game requires more computing power than a RTS game.

And maybe Civ 4 isn't an improvement in the franchise if our esteemed moderator plays more Civ 3 than Civ 4!

Ya, woops, forgot to state the most obvious evidence of my point of the code being clunky and needing a whole redo.. the fact that uber machines like mine chug along and crash periodically in civ4 even though the graphics and such aren't nearly as advanced as games that run a lot smoother and easier.

On the other hand, I always like the game rules and features improvements of each expansion, so meh, I can't go back and play civ3 or older versions.

I think there is a problem when a TBS game requires more computing power than a RTS game.
The problem was probably that Civ4 uses a 3D game engine designed to drive a RTS (Gamebryo?). That immediately cancels any advantage of a TBS game. Add to that the fact that a RTS game usually has a limited number of active, animated items on screen at any time. Civ4, in contrast, has almost every tree, unit, resource and building shuffling and puffing smoke, and Civ4 becomes more demanding than an RTS. It may also be difficult to restrict the animation graphics processing to just the visible items, so big maps with lots of trees and units and stuff suffer even more.


And maybe Civ 4 isn't an improvement in the franchise if our esteemed moderator plays more Civ 3 than Civ 4!
Well, I don't play any Civ3, either. I never even got to grips with Conquests.
I suspect the real reason is that I have a low attention span, and it was the GOTM and SGOTM competitions that grabbed it. Once I became involved in managing those competitions, it was not really possible to play in them as well, and my interest and time for learning new variations on the Civ theme waned.

The problem was probably that Civ4 uses a 3D game engine designed to drive a RTS (Gamebryo?). That immediately cancels any advantage of a TBS game.

Using a RTS engine for a TBS game does more than cancel any advantage. You get the worst of both worlds.

Civ4, in contrast, has almost every tree, unit, resource and building shuffling and puffing smoke, and Civ4 becomes more demanding than an RTS. It may also be difficult to restrict the animation graphics processing to just the visible items, so big maps with lots of trees and units and stuff suffer even more.

Animation graphics for items that won't be seen by the user? There is something disturbingly wrong there.

Well, I don't play any Civ3, either. I never even got to grips with Conquests.
I suspect the real reason is that I have a low attention span, and it was the GOTM and SGOTM competitions that grabbed it. Once I became involved in managing those competitions, it was not really possible to play in them as well, and my interest and time for learning new variations on the Civ theme waned.

So you help people with their technical problems, moderate a couple of fora, write the HoF mod, and manage the GOTM, SGOTM competition. I hope you play something to get away.

Civ4 Complete would still require someone to spend all those weeks and months converting "very complex code" to the Mac. I can't see it happening ... unless Brad's arrival back home changes the development timescale equation.

'zactly! :D

Animation graphics for items that won't be seen by the user? There is something disturbingly wrong there.That bit is pure speculation on my part, but would help to excplain why Civ4 slows on big maps and in the late game. A big/late map could have major performance issues purely because it uses a lot of memory, of course.


So you help people with their technical problems, moderate a couple of fora, write the HoF mod, and manage the GOTM, SGOTM competition. I hope you play something to get away.
That *is* play!

On that note, I wonder if the console game Civilization Revolution will be ported to computers, PC or Mac? After reading about them, I kind of like the idea of less details and faster pace, and better graphics and interface. But I don't want to go spend $600 on a PS3 (ok I kind of want to, but geesh they're expensive).


Just to note: Civilization Revolution will not be coming to anything other than consoles, it is being built specifically for consoles, and for console users.

However, you don't need to spend $600 on a PS3 to get it, you can get a DS for $130, an Xbox 360 for $350, or a PS3 for $400-500. :)

Just to note: Civilization Revolution will not be coming to anything other than consoles, it is being built specifically for consoles, and for console users.

However, you don't need to spend $600 on a PS3 to get it, you can get a DS for $130, an Xbox 360 for $350, or a PS3 for $400-500. :)

I concur. For $129.99, or less for a used DS, you'll have access to some really incredible games. And, they're less expensive than most Mac and PC games.

In addition to CivRev in July, I highly recommend:

(1) Zelda: Phantom Hour Glass
(2) Age of Knights
(3) Anno 1701
(4) Advance Wars: Days of Ruin
(5) Puzzle Quest: Challenge of the Warlords (personal favorite atm)

Why a DS?

(1) In bed, after the wifer has fallen asleep
(2) Doctor's office waiting on the mandatory 20 min. after your son gets his allergy shot
(3) etc.

EDIT - Post moved to this thread: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=249791&page=3 it's more appropriate there.

Anyway, I've said it before, I sure wish Firaxis would write all of their Civ games to be Mac-compatible from the beginning like Blizzard does for their games.
This would be ideal for all developers to do this. However Blizzard made the financial commitment years ago to do this. This requires labor and technical skills.

I'm sure we all agree that Firaxis has highly skilled programmers on their staff. However they don't seem like the type of firm that wants to have hundreds and hundreds of employees working on their titles. I think this is evident with the stoppage of the Wii CivRev version. They seem pretty maxed out right now with CivRev on three platforms plus Civ4: Colonization.

I'm really disappointed in the support Aspyr has given to Civ4. Patches have been late and usually buggy. No mention of BTS or patches to improve performance of their current products. I understand that Civ4 on Mac is very niche compared to say the latest and greatest FPS or The Sims 2. However, Aspyr released the product, released one of the expansions and has released a few patches. You'd think that they would at least continue to support the game.

After all said and done, I decided to just stop supporting Aspyr and buying Firaxis games directly from them instead.

I think we're all forgetting how quickly Aspyr delivered Civ4 and Warlords. I took them months not years. Which is (as far as I know) a very fast job at porting a game for the mac.
tru, but bts is a much bigger expansion, and it'll take longer to port, so there's no telling when:confused:

...so there's no telling when:confused:
Well, Aspyr have said they have no plans to do it. So it's not even being worked on, regardless of how long a job it is. I strongly recommend that you stop waiting.