Things in the Original and Warlords game, you believe needed to be improved and maybe add something extra as long as it's fair and reasonable. I Don't want something that's already good to be overpowered. Lets Hope Firaxis Games Reads this and Improve the flaws of the game

First Off, I'd like them to Modify and Improve the Protective and Imperialistic Traits, (Search the Thread for Specific Examples to improved Traits)

Improve Certain underpowered Civics like Enviromentalism, Like give the workers the ability to plant forest under that Civic (Makes sense doesn't it?) Other Civics that might be considered for improvement maybe Serfdom and Free-market, although questionable. I never use serfdom unless I'm spiritual.

Celtic Dun's Should Never Obsolete, Improve the Chichen Itza, Lengthen the Life & usage of the Musketman, Unclear Plants Shouldn't melt down with the invention of Fusion. Change Castles benefits to +2XP to Siege Units, Remove Extra Trade route and make it obsolete with Artillery.


Close Combat Animation for Rifleman and Infantry include the usage of Bayonets, I Found it strange Projectile Units had both Close and long range weapons eg- Grenadiers had Short Swords, Crossbowman had Axes. But the Rifles, even at Close Range they still fired shots. I know this is selfish but I'd like to See a Rifleman or Infantry Stab someone with a Bayonets close range.

If there are any other Improvements you'd like to add. Please go ahead.

First Off, I'd like them to Modify and Improve the Protective and Imperialistic Traits

There's no need for new traits so some of the old ones will probably be modified. I don't think CivIV has had so much as a patch that didn't alter traits.

Improve Certain underpowered Civics like Enviromentalism, Like give the workers the ability to plant forest under that Civic (Makes sense doesn't it?) Other Civics that might be considered for improvement maybe Serfdom and Free-market, although questionable. I never use serfdom unless I'm spiritual.

Enviromentalism and Free Market are good civics as they are. Far and away the strongest and most unbalanced civic is slavery (unbalanced meaning that other civics in the Labour category are much less likely to be used as a result of its current properties). If anything is to be changed I'd like it to be weakened. That would be much simpler than altering serfdom, caste system, and emancipation.

Other improvements:

Trade routes and naval units. (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=4764549&postcount=14)

Okay, I take it back. A change to emancipation. (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=4633008&postcount=35)

Enviromentalism and Free Market are good civics as they are. Far and away the strongest and most unbalanced civic is slavery (unbalanced meaning that other civics in the Labour category are much less likely to be used as a result of its current properties). If anything is to be changed I'd like it to be weakened. That would be much simpler than altering serfdom, caste system, and emancipation.

Other improvements:

Trade routes. (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=4764549&postcount=14)

Okay, I take it back. A change to emancipation. (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=4633008&postcount=35)

How would you Nerf the Slavery Civic to make it more balanced? Make Pop Rushing 20H per Pop instead 30H per pop? (lol sounds like the Chopping Nerf)

Enviromentalism, How many times in the game have you actually used this Civic? I Don't even take into consideration of Extra Happiness for every Forest and Jungle tile in my FC, because 95% of the time I've Chopped everything and the Health Bonus isn't that Great unless I'm playing with a SE.

Free-market is usable but only if I'm a Smaller Civ with lots of trading partners, Maybe decrease the cost of Free-market may give it a boost.

How would you Nerf the Slavery Civic to make it more balanced? Make Pop Rushing 20H per Pop instead 30H per pop? (lol sounds like the Chopping Nerf)

No idea. But if a civic is to be changed that's my first choice. Linking the number of unhappiness as a result of whipping - 'we cannot forget your cruel oppression' - to the number of citizens killed off would severely reduce its power relative to the other labour civics but would it be too much?

Enviromentalism, How many times in the game have you actually used this Civic? I Don't even take into consideration of Extra Happiness for every Forest and Jungle tile in my FC, because 95% of the time I've Chopped everything and the Health Bonus isn't that Great unless I'm playing with a SE.

+6 :health: per city. Health is the factor that most frequently caps the size of my most productive and/or profitable cities. If a health boost will increase the size of a fair proportion of my core cities (and I should point out that I build my core cities with the intention of getting large populations out of them), there are only a handful of times when I don't use it:

- A really massive empire. State property. A rare situation for me.
- No trading partners. A rare situation for me. Even then focusing city worker increases in a few cities rather than one per city (mercantilism) is usually the better choice so enviromentalism wins out.
- if I'm not making full use of all of the potentially profitable foreign trade routes available to me. A very rare situation and even then I usually go with enviromentalism - city size increases in the largest cities will usually provide more profit from existing trade routes then can be gained from additional foreign trade routes in smaller cities.

Oh, and I don't clear cut. Chopping for me is usually (but not exclusively) in the very early game so the forests have time to grow back. A lot of my cities do get happiness bonuses as well.

If enviromentalism was unlocked earlier in the game I might even be suggesting it be weakened since there is rarely a more profitable alternative to it.

Of course, I've never played above Monarch level. Difficulty levels where the health penalties are supposedly very severe and the enviromentalism bonus would surely be more valuable than it is at the difficulties I've played at.

Free-market is usable but only if I'm a Smaller Civ with lots of trading partners, Maybe decrease the cost of Free-market may give it a boost.

I agree that that's the situation in which its most useful. I don't agree that it needs to be changed.

My improvements wishlist would include:
- Protective trait: pure defence boosts are of marginal use to players, if any at all. A trait should make a substantial difference throughout a game.
- Walls & castles, Chichen Itza: same as above + limited lifetime doesn't exactly help either.
- Haga Sophia. Virtually never build it.
- Musketeers & possibly Conquistadors. Neither are great as is and are very much superceded by the next units in the tech tree.
- Dun & Gaelic warrior. Their use is far too circumstantial.
- Navy, especially the early units. Can't remember building anything other than sea-resource defenders prior to 1000AD since Warlords was released.
- Serfdom & Environmentalism. Niche civics that often go unused during entire games.

Other than that a bit more tweaking to balance and better difficulty scaling.

I wouldn't mind seeing the default time limit upped to 2100 AD either. The end-game units (e.g. Stealth Bombers) are often underused because I'm typically close to victory when they come about. Definitely not a must though.

I would suggest, more severe penalties for whipping, possibly based on the amount of hammers just whipped out of someones arse..
That way it will be less in the earlier games when buildings are less expensive, and more so later in the game-- more expensive buildings.
Also need to deal with the emancipation issues. Maybe make it less severe, since the penalty for whipping is more severe, however, instead of an actual city by city penalty, make it more of a diplomacy penalty.. a strike on your relations with people who have emanc, and less likely to revolt towards you.

+6 :health: per city. Health is the factor that most frequently caps the size of my most productive and/or profitable cities. If a health boost will increase the size of a fair proportion of my core cities (and I should point out that I build my core cities with the intention of getting large populations out of them), there are only a handful of times when I don't use it:

- A really massive empire. State property. A rare situation for me.
- No trading partners. A rare situation for me. Even then focusing city worker increases in a few cities rather than one per city (mercantilism) is usually the better choice so enviromentalism wins out.
- if I'm not making full use of all of the potentially profitable foreign trade routes available to me. A very rare situation and even then I usually go with enviromentalism - city size increases in the largest cities will usually provide more profit from existing trade routes then can be gained from additional foreign trade routes in smaller cities.

Oh, and I don't clear cut. Chopping for me is usually (but not exclusively) in the very early game so the forests have time to grow back. A lot of my cities do get happiness bonuses as well.

If enviromentalism was unlocked earlier in the game I might even be suggesting it be weakened since there is rarely a more profitable alternative to it.

Of course, I've never played above Monarch level. Difficulty levels where the health penalties are supposedly very severe and the enviromentalism bonus would surely be more valuable than it is at the difficulties I've played at.


I guess with the Enviromentalism Civic, it shows how our styles of play differentiate, I Usually Count the number of tiles and Food a city can produce and try to limit it to 40 Food, just enough to work all 20 tiles (Assuming City has no overlap or unworkable tiles)and focus towards, Production or Commerce Specializations or a combination of both therefore I try to limit it to 40 Food for those reasons, so I rarely ever need any more then 20 Health Points + extra health for any Unhealthy Buildings, therefore most my cities never really grow past size 20 for forced Specialist. Therefore I generally Choose between SP And FM. Enviromentalism might be useful if you could plant Forest in the late stages of the game.

That and I generally win most of my games before Enviromentalism is available (As i tend to ignore Medicine) for useful purposes and if I play on into that stage of the game and beeline for a Space Race, SP is generally the better Civic for Production Purposes, whether I'm big or Small.

Yes an improvement to Enviromentalism would be good, like the idea of planting trees.

Personally I think protective is a good trait. Maybe boost imperial.

Someone mentions the musketeers. Personally I think the problems here could be solved by pushing back grenadiers. Maybe you should get them at the same time as riflemen ?

Yes an improvement to Enviromentalism would be good, like the idea of planting trees.

Personally I think protective is a good trait. Maybe boost imperial.

Someone mentions the musketeers. Personally I think the problems here could be solved by pushing back grenadiers. Maybe you should get them at the same time as riflemen ?

There was a Thread that Made Grenadiers Require 2 Techs, Just like Maceman (Civil Service & Machinery) but for Grenadiers they'd require (Chemistry & Military Tradition)

Another Idea.

Close Combat Animation for Rifleman and Infantry include the usage of Bayonets, I Found it strange Projectile Units had both Close and long range weapons eg- Grenadiers had Short Swords, Crossbowman had Axes. But the Rifles, even at Closes Range they still fired shots. I know this is selfish but I'd like to See a Rifleman or Infantry Stab someone with a Bayonets close range.

KniteOwl:
... I Usually Count the number of tiles and Food a city can produce and try to limit it to 40 Food ... 20 Health Points

I actually do the same when it comes to deciding on where to build cities. I plan my tile improvements around getting a city to size 20. Thing is, getting 20 health points in a city isn't that easy - especially if you're cutting down all forests (main reason why I don't). Unless a city has access to hydro power the non resource activated health affects of buildings tend to cancel each other out (before recycling centers). There are only 25 health points available from resources, only 22 if a city is built inland. Unless I have a massive empire (in which case I use state property) I can't really expect to have access to enough.

Change Protective and Imperialistic traits. Warlords added three new traits and I hated two of them. Way to go, Warlords!

Push grenadiers and cavalry further up the tech tree.

Don't allow new features to ruin the core game. Feudal states was an interesting idea at first, but now I understand it's more annoying than anything else. My enemy becomes the vassal of my former best ally, who then hates me for the war he effectively initiated? It's not an overlook, it's a feature! :p

There was a Thread that Made Grenadiers Require 2 Techs, Just like Maceman (Civil Service & Machinery) but for Grenadiers they'd require (Chemistry & Military Tradition)

This is still too early. Even if this would reduce the effectiveness of grenadiers, there's still cavalry. You should be able to get rifles around the same time or even before other civs can blitz you with grenades and cavalry. After all, I can get archers before I'm attacked with axemen and longbowmen before I'm attacked with macemen. But even if I make a strong beeline towards Rifling, rival civs are already stocking up on grenadiers and cavalry while I'm still struggling to get to Rifling.

I'd disagree with any change to musketeers which impacted on the current mechanics of the grenadier/rifleman/cavalry units. These three units (and the research paths which lead to them) complement each other nicely. If that means that musketmen will always be a niche unit then so be it.

These three units (and the research paths which lead to them) complement each other nicely. If that means that musketmen will always be a niche unit then so be it.

Muskets suck because grenadiers and cavalry come far earlier than they should. Grenadiers and cavalry come far earlier than they should because of the research paths that lead to them. Riflemen would compliment the triangle dealy nicely if they came in at roughly the same time as grenadiers and cavalry, which they don't. The whole balance is askew.

Grenadiers and cavalry come far earlier than they should because of the research paths that lead to them.

The paths leading to each of the three units are quite different.

Music, nationalism -> cavalry
Gunpowder, engineering -> grenadiers
Gunpowder, replaceable parts -> rifleman

Your arguement would make a lot more sense if you said that grenadiers and riflemen arrive at the same time since at least they share a prerequisite.

I'm not claiming the three units arrive at the same time. Far from it. As things are you need to decide which unit best suits your needs as you approach the gunpowder era and go for it (leading to both a delay in researching the other two units and a weakness in your military). That's what I like about the current system. You pick one of the three along with both the benefits and the disadvantages that go with it and sacrifice getting the other two for a while.

I'd agree that the triangle was askew if two did arrive long before any other but this is not the case.

I would love to see protective suck less. A lot less. I'm sorry but... yeesh.
And I can only think of one new trait that could be useful. Scientific. You know, the science version of Creative. Can't really think of specifics for that trait, though.

When they revamp Epic mode, I really truly hope they fix the rate at which things are researched. I know there are mods for that, but it'd be nice for it to be standard. Really hate getting a unit, making it, then having that unit become obsolete the second its made.

I want George Washing returned to normal. Come on. He -was- organized and financial IRL. Charismatic? ...Not so much. Not to fond of the charismatic trait anyway. I've noticed most people aren't, since unhappiness is easilly fixed with just one building, unlike sick faces. Always ruining my science cities, those sickies.

I want George Washing returned to normal. Come on. He -was- organized and financial IRL. Charismatic? ...Not so much. Not to fond of the charismatic trait anyway. I've noticed most people aren't, since unhappiness is easilly fixed with just one building, unlike sick faces. Always ruining my science cities, those sickies.

Washington seems like a charismatic historical figure to me. He could be charismatic/organized, and Napoleon could get charismatic/imperialistic (provided that imperialistic gets some sort of buff).

My reason for not seeing him as charismatic:
We kinda... well...
We ignored Washington.
I mean have you ever read -his- ideas about America? Yeah...
No intervening, one political party, no alliances, etc., etc.
A great leader, yes. A great general, yes.
Charismatic? Maybe outside of work. I bet he could chat up the ladies with those wooden choppers.
Maybe Organized/Imperialistic?

The paths leading to each of the three units are quite different.

Music, nationalism -> cavalry
Gunpowder, engineering -> grenadiers
Gunpowder, replaceable parts -> rifleman

Your arguement would make a lot more sense if you said that grenadiers and riflemen arrive at the same time since at least they share a prerequisite.


Last time I checked, Engineering and other techs were pre-requisites for replaceable parts. So, riflemen do indeed come after grenadiers. To me, this makes no sense, as the grenadiers are the counter to riflemen. The counter should always come after the thing it is countering.

Last time I checked, Engineering and other techs were pre-requisites for replaceable parts. So, riflemen do indeed come after grenadiers. To me, this makes no sense, as the grenadiers are the counter to riflemen. The counter should always come after the thing it is countering.

Check again. Machinery, not engineering, is a prerequisite for replaceable parts. Since this is a prerequisite for a lot of important technologies and units (guilds, engineering, printing press, optics, macemen, crossbows) it's unlikely that a civ reaching the gunpowder era will not have researched it.

The counter should always come after the thing it is countering.

Grenadier > Rifleman > Cavalry > Grenadier > Rifleman > ...etc...

Further wants (in keeping with the original spirit of the thread):

New options in the custom set up menu:

1) Random traits
2) No traits
3) Random unique units
4) No unique units
5) Random unique buildings
6) No unique buildings
7) Random religions - links religions to random technologies
8) Hidden religions - links religions to random, unknown technologies
9) Religion number - choose the number of religions in each game

I have a lot of hopes regarding the UN changes. I hope we'll be able to...

...disregard UN mandates (at some peril)
...as SecGen, propose votes on our own favorite civics, not just the last five
...offer votes on UN sanctions, such as trade embargoes


I'd like the AI to offer me things in exchange for ceasing trade or going to war, instead of just getting mad at me when I don't agree.

When two civs form a peace treaty during a war involving multiple civs, I'd like to see the other civs fighting the war have the opportunity to choose how to react to the peace treaty (including being able to threaten the departing ally with war if they do sign).