Amazing job on unit submissions. The team has already started with the "even if this one doesn't win we should add it" talk, and everyone had several entries they really liked. Of those the following were liked by several team members.

We may even be implementing modified versions of some units that didn't make the final poll so even if your entry doesn't show up here, we are still thinking about it. I should also mention that the Dwarven Seer was selected by a team member, but I vetoed it because I wouldn't be able to implement it.


Animal Pack
by: Zuul

When more of some animal unit (eg wolves, bears, lions) is close by, they have a chance to change into a pack of that animal. The pack will start spawning new animals, move, or create a den (or chance of a den changed into a pack (especially if thretend)). A pack will attack easy prey but run from large armies.

The pack will have attack +25% defence +50%, the den will have 0% attack, +100% defence, 0 movement.


Corsair
by: Valis

A new ship available only to Luan the time Frigates are buildable and with the same restrictions. On top on that they can't be build normally but have to be upgraded from Pirates with lvl 4+ with their hidden nationality on. [those who declare their nationality wont be able to upgrade]
Maybe for balance limit them only to 3? It would give also gold for Luan like pirates do, etc. With this I propose a corsair promotion for the Black Wind at the time he reaches 8th lvl and it would increase his power by 2 so he becomes one also and is not obsolete.

Alternatively not only for Luan but you have to have a Pirate of lvl 8+ to upgrade it to and Luan get to upgrade them at lvl 4+ already.


Special ability: City Raid
- when next to a city can use it like it would bombard it
- it will last till the ship leaves the city radius or does an action like attack, bombard, move [successfully defending does not break it]
- the corsair does not heal while using this ability
- the corsair owner would gain the income of that city: 1st turn 100% of the income, 2nd 100%/2 of the city income, 3rd 100%/3 and so on
- after the second turn a blockade effect takes place till the raid is over
-- a city that is under a blockade can not build ship
-- a city that is under a blockade produces no research
-- a city that is under a blockade produces no income
-- a city that is under a blockade produces no luxuries nor resources [it would be like there were no roads connected to the rest of the empire for outgoing resources], the city still would have access to them
-- if the city has gems, gold, mithrill then the corsair will receive extra gold for the raid

This way players would chose to have gold from it or to strategically disable a city. A city can only be the target of one raid at a time.


Stats:
Strength: Frigate-1
Move: Same as Frigate

Model: Frigate with some pirate bander.


Doppelganger
by: Domingo

Civs: Probably Evil would be the most suitable, more specifically the Balseraphs, Sheim, or Calabim (though I could see the possibility as well for neutral civs like the Sidar)

Requirements: Deception, Body Mana

Model: Worker. If it seems feasible, changing to the model of the last humanoid unit it has killed.

stats: 5/4, 2 movement, -50 City, Magic Resistant, Hidden Nationality

Possible additions: Body 1 and Channeling 1 (for greater mobility), The doppelganger could gain sentry 1 or 2 after killing an enemy unit (representing knowledge gleaned from the fallen unit)

Reasoning: I see the doppelganger filling a similar, though perhaps more specialized, niche as the assassin (and would be available at roughly the same time). However, where the assassin works as a marksman, picking off weaker units and having additional poison damage, the doppelganger would be more of a raider, having the benefit of hidden nationality and greater survivability to operate farther from home. Magic resistance (and perhaps Immunity, though that could be overpowered) give the unit more versatility to raid even when large portions of the world might be in flames.


Foreman
by: EvilBohdran

Technology Required: Bronze Working
Strength: 3
Movement: 1
Promotions: Mobility, Combat

Special Ability: Build Siege Engine - use when unit is on a forest tile - over 3 turns the Foreman will chop down the forest and build a catapult unit (ability requires you to have a catapult tech). You can only use this ability if the number of catapults you control is less than the number of Foreman you control (similar to the limitation of summon skeleton). Using this ability within another Civ's borders is an act of war.

Mostly I want this because moving catapults one unit at a time is tedious. Instead I can move my army in, and build siege devices from trees outside the enemy city. Balanced by taking the same amount of time (I got to wait to build them), but I'm not micromanaging my stack while I get ready.


Harpooner
by: Miloe

Civilization: Lanun

Requirements: Lighthouse, Harbor, Tracking, Sailing, possible other naval techs and/or exploring techs
Promotions: visibility (i think it was sentry), subdue animal, heavy bonus vs. animals, track hidden animals
Cost: about twice much as work boat
Graphics: similar to work boat, maybe different colouring


Description: Its a naval unit that looks like a basic work boat but it has some special abilities. Its designed to explore the seas and track down sea monsters and "tame" them much like hunters can do in land. After it has found and killed a sea monster you get control of the monster. It is very weak against normal ships and cant attack them but it gets big bonus against animals. It has advanced visibility range but doesnt get movement bonuses to start with. If all territory is already explored it could upgrade whale resource nodes to increase its +1. This action would consume the unit.


Ice Basilisk
by: Frozen Vomit

Barbarian (hidden nationality) beast type unit. Starts in ice or tundra squares.

Immobile (0 ), 2 (+2 cold). Starts with magic immunity, immune to cold and fear.

During each (barbarian) turn the basilisk cast the "Gaze of the Serpent" (or whatever ) spell that freezes all units (even other barbarians) in adjected tiles (hand out frozen promotion to all those units).

Frozen units are immobile and take (10-level)% damage each turn until they die. They have a chance of (level * 3)% that they lose that promotion at the beginning of the (their) turn.

When the basilisk is killed take away the frozen promotion from all units in adjected tiles. The killer of the creature could get a "Skin of the Basilisk" promotion (could even be handed around and captured like Orthuss Axe) that gives (+1 cold defense ,just ignore this if it not supported), magic immunity and immune to cold.


Puppet
by: AlterMann

Civ: Balseraphs
Available with Mysticism
Type: Melee, National Unit (max: 3), not upgradable
Model: reskinned Harlequin
Strength: 1
Move: 1
Cost: expensive
Buildable only in Capital

The puppets are the most closest units to perpentach/keelyn. They do not have a free will, they are their personal toys. Their behavior and powers are always tuned to their masters mindset. In perpentachs case, they get 3 promotions which will switch according to his traits change.

Aggresive: Crazed
Arcane: Vile Touch
Creative: Invisible
Defensive: Defensive
Expansive: Hasted
Financial: No promotion, unit just don't cost support
Industrial: Diseased
Organized: March
Magic Resistant: Magic Resistance
Philosophical: Spirit Guide
Raider: Blitz
Spiritual: Blessed
Summoning (for keelyn): Channeling I and Dimensional I, unit can cast escape

I like the doppleganger- though instead of promoting through regular experience, it should learn an upgrade that a unit it kills has.

The puppet sounds cool as well, does not seem extremely useful, but fits the Balseraph theme.

But my favorite is definitely the Ice Basilisk!

Sort of underwhelming to see so many narrowly-available units on the final list. TWO Lanun-only choices? TWO new Barbarian units? Only one unit intended for any civ? But what would I do if I didn't have something to gripe about?

Anyway, I voted for the only universally available unit, the Foreman. I hate moving at speed one! :)

(I'd even make a case this is the way siege engine should work. Build 'em on site or do without 'em. So this choice allows for a nice future potential design change. :thumbsup:)

If the Foreman does not make the cut, I am rooting for the barbairian units, Animal Pack or Ice Basalisk.

personally i am all for the animal pack and the corsair.

- the animal pack is a great idea imho , hopefully the rate can be high enogh to keep soem of the wilderness as wilderness for a while ( i feel the world becomes civilized too fast)

- i actually voted for the corsair because time and time again any fix for the lanun has been avoided. the lanun really need the lift. this provides it both militarily and finacially whiel still maintaining great flavor

I like Unsers idea that catapults can only be built by foreman. But how are you going to work in the cost? Basically you would just get free production- they won't cost your cities any hammers.

I didn't vote for the animal pack because I wasn't sure I got what it did.

I had posted on another thread- about ruins and barrows possibly producing rats and/or bats for the first few turns, maybe too late to get into this contest, but seems like it would be a good idea to prevent the barrows next to your city- instant death type of games.

I like Unsers idea that catapults can only be built by foreman. But how are you going to work in the cost? Basically you would just get free production- they won't cost your cities any hammers.

I didn't vote for the animal pack because I wasn't sure I got what it did.

I had posted on another thread- about ruins and barrows possibly producing rats and/or bats for the first few turns, maybe too late to get into this contest, but seems like it would be a good idea to prevent the barrows next to your city- instant death type of games.


Give siege gear (catapaults) move 0 under an all-Foreman system. (Edit: :hmm: But then how would they attack?) So you'd have to build new siege towers on-site for each location. And perhaps doing so would consume a forest tile. I'm sure details could be hashed out, should the desire exist. (Edit: "A question dodged is a question answered." ... every White House press spokesperson in history.)

It's just a top-of-the-head thought at this stage. It'd be as big a change as moving the metal weapons upgrade system from just Doviello to general use. There would be a lot of nuts and bolts to consider. But once that change was desired it was made. Those nuts and bolts were considered. I am not saying any change should be made. I'm just saying this puts a 'hook' in place already, IF such an idea arises.

Bottom line though, the difference between my 1st choice and my last choice is very slim. Whatever gets voted in is fine. I am not trying to jump up and down to influence any votes. But ask me a question...

Voted Ice Basilisk but you better get that animal pack in later!

I like the foreman, animal pack, and corsair. I think the animal pack will find its way into FfH anyways. I voted for the foreman because all civs can build it and I prefer more mobile armies so this gives me another (mobile) option for sieges.

Well then since we're just speculating...

Perhaps they should have a gold cost, similar to mercenaries. Foreman has to be in a forest, pay the gold, build for three turns and you got a catapult.

Though for a catapult to consume an entire forest, that would be a monster sized siege weapon!! Perhaps a chance of downgrading the forest instead of consuming it? Say 50% chance ancient forest -> regular forest -> new forest. Catapults can't be built in that square again until the forest grows back to at least regular forest.

And again, my unit hasn't made it to the closer choice. :(

I vote for the Foreman because this is a unit I would use very often. I mostly don't have the time to build siege engines, but with him in a stack I can improvise catapults. Very neat.

Animal Pack all the way. My favorite part of the game is exploration - wimpy scouts tiptoeing around jumping for huts and running like hell from hill giants and wolf packs.

The animal pack seems like a great idea to animals to last longer. The problem I see with it is it doesn't seems like an ordinary ranger should be able to capture so many animals at once. Could you make it so that only a Beastmaster could capture it? Perhaps it should be weaker but give bonuses to animals that it carries inside of it, so they could be captured with greater difficulty but the whole pack would not. Or the pack could just not be classified as an animal although it generates them.

I also like the Corsair, but its special power is a bit too strong. A naval blockade is not nearly so serious if a city is connected by roads to the rest of the empire. Income and research should be reduced, not eliminated, and only sea trade should be stopped. As I mentioned on another thread (the discussion for this?) I would like to see a blockade/siege aspect added to the game for sea and land units in general, requiring all the sea/land tiles to be occupied.

It seems like for the doppelganger to be good it would need to appear to belong to another player. If this can be done it is the best choice, otherwise it sucks.

I envision a foreman as a worker with better managerial skills. Perhaps it could be an upgrade of a worker, and national unit so normal workers stay around. It would build things faster than a worker and have some combat strength but cost much more. I wouldn't mind letting normal workers build siege engines too, but more slowly. Perhaps, to prevent abuse, the possible number a units created this way should be linked to the number of workshop improvements you have. Alternately, they could determine the starting xp of these newly made unit. This would actually give me a reason to build workshops. Also, building cannons out of forest materials is not really possible. I think building catapults and trebuchets is fine, but would propose adding battering rams. These could be built no other way, and would be very weak siege units that cannot bombard. Instead, whenever they attach a city (and inevitably loses) the defenses automatically decrease by more than any other unit's bombard ability. It could possibly automatically destroy some improvements (forts, villages, workshops, ect) on tiles it attacks, or have a slight chance to each time.

Harpooner: I like this, but you need to include its strength and movement rate. I think it should be able to attack enemy work boats and their fishing/whaling boat improvements.

The Ice Basilisk is too complicated, and not enough to really make the tundra foreboding by itself. We already have enough units that just sit somewhere damaging unis nearby but with a possible reward. This takes away slightly from the uniqueness of Giant Spiders, Acheron, and Orthus. I would prefer making Ice and Tundra terrain kinda like fire, requiring some cold resistance to enter and/or doing small amounts of cold damage. The frozen promotion should be an occasional side effect of cold damage however it is dealt. Ilian and Doviello units would start with cold resistance. Also, cold weather hell terrain needs to be added. There are several mythologies that incorporate both fiery and frigid regions of hell. Some polar bears and possibly a few surviving frostlings like Mokka would also be nice to spice up the terrain, but lets not get too greedy.

Finally the puppets. These are somewhat cool but seem pretty useless since they cannot be upgraded, are expensive, and have no great strength or abilities. Perhaps they could be made to add to the Balseraph's Culture (more than a disciple, less than a great bard) in their cities?

Still not sure which one to pick.

wow, what a suprise!! never thought i would make it. :D
as to the puppets, i thought they were pretty uber as they potentiallly can get +1 holy, +1 unholy and enraged...but a general increase in strenght is also fine with me :smug:

voted for animal pack, as i can´t stand those empty cages. really liked sureshots unit, though

cheers!

I voted animal pack, but I also LOVE the ice basilisk and doppleganger ideas

I like the corsair alot, it would really help to make the seas more of an important area for combat.
In fact I think other universal ships should get the corsair ability (obviously to a lesser degree)
-perhaps only the blockade function, it sets up for two turns doing nothing, and then the third turn begins to cut off reserch, finance etc.

Not suprised mine didn't make it, flavorful, but not a very good unit. I do think AV needs a caster hero though, it just seems like the most magic oriented religon but OO gets the ubercaster?

Completly amazed that my entry made it to the final 7 i voted for myself :p

A Frozen-Vomit unit? Some things are beyond the pale!

Sort of underwhelming to see so many narrowly-available units on the final list

I had near the same thought. I dig them all, but when you have the choice between 1 new unit decision every year (?), I have go with something I'll use regularly. Instead of a unit I'd use with 1 civ or not even use at all (barbarian units)....or I'm a sore loser...*sniff*

Good luck to the finalists though :)

Voted Foreman: it is for all civs, ai could possibly understand it.
Others are for evil civs (which already get more spoils than the good ones) or should better wait for shadow (wilderness, deception), because they will be buggy. Animal pack is nice, but the intended behaviour could be difficult to make it work properly. Moreover wilderness disappears mainly because of culture, so if it would have to be able to enter borders.

I still think the game needs more "monsters"

Well, I would have liked to see more "multiciv units" in the game, but I suppose it is more fun to make specific units for specific civs... I voted foreman.

Yeah, I should've entered a Chimera type creature, maybe it would have a high spawn rate on ownerless Hell tiles.

Edit: erm, that was a response to cvlowe.

Voted Animal Pack, though I would also love to see the Foreman, Harpooner and Ice Basilisk in the game.

it'd be awesome if BOTH animal pack & foreman were added to the game.. :rolleyes: :lol:
btw voted foreman

Oh - and if the Foreman does get in, the cost for producing catapults the ordinary way should go way up. But I suppose that's obvious.

I don't like the implementation of foreman as listed.

Let's see- I'm going to send my uber-workers into your territory to destroy your production (forests) while building free catapults I can use to pound your cities with.

Edit: maybe have the foreman "join" the catapult- similar to a great commander- and he can be unjoined later- disbanding the catapult. After all, a catapult requires a crew. Maybe even make it slightly better than a standard catapult, but it can not cross culture boundaries.

I don't like the implementation of foreman as listed.

Let's see- I'm going to send my uber-workers into your territory to destroy your production (forests) while building free catapults I can use to pound your cities with.


-ditto,
esp. since it only takes 3 turns for that catapult to be built and you are getting no travel time for that catapult. just to powerful for me.

maybe make them immobile catapults that it makes

i voted for the doppeldanger - how long would it take for the unit that wins to actually come into effect?

Voted for the animal pack. More animals about for cages the better, and the idea is very cool. Foreman, although a cool idea, makes siege workshops effectively obsolete. And, siege weapons always tended to be slow anyways in the real world. Gotta pick off those supply routes!

I like animal pack and ice basilisk the most.

I see that there are not to many votes for it yet, but I think the harpooner would make a great addition. As they are now, the Lanun are one of my least favorite civs in the mod. This is unfortunate because their back story and flavor are cool, but the AI's poor use of naval units and the mods general lack of excitement on the high seas makes the Lanun a bit lame. There is already a whole forum thread talking about how to improve the seas to make the Lanun a more playable civ.

I think that the harpooner unit would add that unique flavor that would make the Lanun more fun. Being able to capture sea creatures like hunters capture animals sounds really cool. Perhaps the team could add a few unique buildings based off the different sea creatures as well to set the Lanun apart from their land loving neighbors. While all of the short list of units have a lot of potential, I think that the improvements the harpooner would make to a currently lackluster civ ecclipse the competition.

I voted for the ice basilisk because it's great to see more animal units, even if some of them are fairly rare (like the gorilla). I think the mechanic behind the ice basilisk, as described, will work better in game than the animal pack. There are already barrows and ruins, after all, and animal dens would be the same thing. But the ice basilisk is like another giant spider (my favourite animal unit!) only with a slim chance the unit might yet get away :goodjob: It'll add more suspense to tundra & ice scouting. Getting a reward for defeating them would make them sought after, too.

Isn't it supposed to be Doppelganger not Doppeldanger? Ah well never mind...

i like the ice basilisk mainly because i like the idea of more items to pass around. plus the idea of attaching freezing to cold damage, as currently most of the damage types are weaker than physical damage since theres plenty that resists them but nothing that resists physical damage.

animal dens would be a lot of fun tho too.

Sort of underwhelming to see so many narrowly-available units on the final list. TWO Lanun-only choices? TWO new Barbarian units? Only one unit intended for any civ? But what would I do if I didn't have something to gripe about?

I'm a little disappointed with the list as well; there were several units I liked that apparently weren't popular.

I like the animal pack, but I'm not sure that the shortage of mid-game animals wouldn't be better addressed by revising the animal spawn mechanics. Also, does every city need caged animals?

I like the Pirate unit, but I've always been unsatisfied with the fact that it couldn't upgrade into a more advanced naval unit, even after declaring nationality. The "blockade" mechanic is great, but it should only apply to water routes, and there is no reason why other ships wouldn't be capable of this. Maybe this should be implemented with a promotion available only to "fast" ships?

As an aside, why not allow (experienced) Pirates who have Declared Nationality to upgrade into Frigates, Man o War, Galleons, or Queen of the Line? Getting a better ship and a formal military rank seems a fitting reward for their service to the country. Also, why don't Galleons upgrade into Queen of the Line?

The Doppelganger is a fun idea, but there seems to be too great an overlap with the Assassin role. I think it would be fantastic as civ-specific Assassin and Shadow units (Balseraph?) or limited to civs with the Hidden trait.

I like the Foreman concept, and I think it is more "realistic" for wooden siege equipment to be built near the location under siege (than the invading civs capital, which is often where Siege Workshops are built). However, if implemented as described-unless the Foreman is prohibitively expensive to build-there will be little motivation to build Catapults the old-fashioned way, and the unit balance at this point could be shaken a bit. I propose that Foremen are consumed in the process.

I like the idea of the Harpooner, but do we really need a new unit to accomplish this? Players are unlikely to build more than one or two, if any. Why not make a Harpoon promotion available to certain units? In any case, if a Harpooner unit is implemented, it should be strong against Beasts and Animals, but weak against other Naval units.

The Ice Basilisk is cool, but I think this should be a unique creature with a greater reward for defeating it. To my knowledge, their aren't many effects that do Cold damage presently.

The Puppet concept is neat, but why would anyone build them? What use are they?

I should also mention that the Dwarven Seer was selected by a team member, but I vetoed it because I wouldn't be able to implement it.

I hope there are plans for the Khazad to get a unit that can see Shadows, as they are forced to adopt OO in order to deal with them currently (and Shadows are usually the second Tier 4 unit the AI builds). I don't think it is necessary that the Dwarven Seer is "blind", and having to "cast" every turn to defend against Shadows is very, very tedious; why not just allow them to see invisible?

The Ice Basilisk is a great idea. Hopefully the pelt will make it in also. Given that presumably we are talking about a small group of Ice Basilisk's being a unit, not one, it might be interesting to allow a Ranger, Beastmaster, or Druid to capture it alive and cage it as a world wonder (requireing a grove and carnival) or use it to train a Basilisk Rider world unit.

when will voting cease and the results presented?

The 6th of April.

I like all of these (to one degree or another). I chose Ice Basilisk largely because I think that a Freeze mechanic (whether or not it's the one described here) will add quite a bit to the game, and can be used elsewhere.

Frankly, although this was arguably beyond the scope of this exercise, I think the thing that would be most useful are mid-late game spawning animals or beasts.

I like the idea of the Harpooner, but do we really need a new unit to accomplish this? Players are unlikely to build more than one or two, if any. Why not make a Harpoon promotion available to certain units? In any case, if a Harpooner unit is implemented, it should be strong against Beasts and Animals, but weak against other Naval units.



Maybe Lunan ships (or just Lunan Pirates) can start with the Harpooner promotion. When they upgrade the promotin could carry over with them (like the animal handling promo).

But why would you want to spend a pirate to build whaling boats? If it should be available as a promotion to any boat, it should be available to their work boats.

Not sacrificing to build a whaling boat...capturing sea creatures.

i think i should have added ability to sabotage rival water resource nodes much like the shadow. but oh well, too late to get the ideas now :crazyeye:

Ppl, you still can vote! Corsair needs your vote to pillage and plunder ;)

I voted for animal pack, because animals go away too fast, and my hunters dont have anything to catch...

12 hours left!

I will be onsite with a customer tomorrow when the contest ends. But you guys will all see who the winner is. Nikis-Knight, Wilboman and Loki have already started working on specific ideas around their favorite ideas (lots of good submissions in this contest!) though of course we will rush to implement the winning submission first.

12 hours left!

I will be onsite with a customer tomorrow when the contest ends. But you guys will all see who the winner is. Nikis-Knight, Wilboman and Loki have already started working on specific ideas around their favorite ideas (lots of good submissions in this contest!) though of course we will rush to implement the winning submission first.

hmm- probably a seperate attack/defensive strength, toting little animal babies gives most animals a defensive stance

(except wolves, which obviously become more dangerous/agressive, in a larger... more fearsome version of the normally passive lone wolf-hint hint)

Congradulations to Zuul for winning the contest!!! :goodjob:

Zuul has been contributing ideas to FfH since the begining, as well as having influenced our work with his excellent exotic animals and promotions and perks modpacks. So Im glad to be able to add him to the list as the 4th design contest winner.

Congrats:)

:goodjob: .

Wow nice :). Unexpected.

Edit: So do you want some more thoughts about this unit or will you fill in the rest?

Wow nice :). Unexpected.

Edit: So do you want some more thoughts about this unit or will you fill in the rest?

We retain the right to tweak, but I would love to hear all your thoughts on it.

Congratulations!

I went on vacation shortly after submitting the doppelganger or I would have liked to have fine tuned it more so it didn't have so much overlap with the assassin. Anyhow, nice work and thanks for the awesome mod.

Saludos,



Domingo

congrats man!
can´t wait to see them ingame!!

:cry: ahh :( wasnt in town to vote:cry:

Congratulations Zuul!

A worthy winner and something I look forward to see in play :goodjob: