joelwest
Apr 02, 2007, 07:27 AM
this post is copied from post 868, page 44, of main SotM mod forum.
my later posts in this thread will try to parse this material for development work.
=============================================
detailed bug report for Moon-Map based SotM game . . .
=============================================
now that I am using "Moon_Map.py" in the PublicMaps folder rather than regular map with moon terrain grafted on there are a different set of bugs. see attached files for game years 171, 205, & 233.
131469
131568
131922
the below analysis is strictly for a play of the mod using a Moon-map from the PublicMaps folder.
see post number 835 for a non Moon-map specific mod spoiler, and an analysis for play of the mod using a land-based map.
====================================
1) the Biodome city improvement is incorrectly listed in the Civilopedia as being available with either Hyproponics or Futuristic Alloys, but is really only available with the latter.
2) unlike the non-Moon map game, the Ion Shield technology does NOT add the one food tile to a dust sea. nor is a port city allowed to build a skimmer (naval) unit in a dust sea tile. the AI civs have not built any skimmers either. (the dust sea can be paved with a road within one's own civ boundaries as previously noted on this board.)
3) it needs to be explicitly stated in the Civilopedia that you can neither build cities nor mine on crater rim tiles. these tiles are all but worthless except for their defense bonus because using Genetic Screening means an engineer specialist will contribute just as much as one of the tiles.
strangely it does not take any more time to build a road over crater rims than any other tile.
my game did not have hill terrain, so the mining improvement was less useful since it only can be used on a tile having a specific resource needing mining.
are you telling me there are no hills on the moon? didn't the moon at one time have volcanic activity that created hills (and gorges)?
4) the Civilopedia also does not state you are unable to build cities on a dust sea tile.
a bug in SotM 0.23 allows the barbarians to do so. see attached year 233 file at lower left edge of the map.
this is a major bug. such a city can never be taken by another civ since such a tile can never be attacked.
5) the military engineer (unlike the non-Moon map version of SotM) has some purpose since he can make radar tower and fort improvements. unfortunately he has the same bug as before, namely this unit is NOT strictly speaking a more powerful version of the engineer unit since there are some improvements such as custom houses the military engineer cannot build.
6) the Wonders are not duplicated, so there can be only one theatre, library, or military site in a city. (the duplication problem is linked somehow to not using a moon map.) however the queuing problem remains, eg multiple turrets can be queued until one is actually built.
7) the university improvement is broken (year 171). it is grayed out saying I need to build a library even though a library has already been built. ditto for the laboratory improvement (year 205). it is grayed since it says I need to build an already built observatory.
not having labs with their 50% spaceship building bonus makes it seem pointless to continue past the intial ability to start a SS casing. (however I did, and won again at "Augustus Caesar" Hall of Fame level in a quick Noble game.)
8) the trade union improvement is an allowed improvement, but worthless. early in the game is costs five turns to get a measly one coin. compare this to the collector which is also available early in the game. some cities come with a free trade union for no apparent reason.
for trade unions to become useful their coinage needs to be raised to at least three.
9) unlike vanilla Civ 4 or Civ 3 if you skip early techs this mod eventually gives you them for free if you wait long enough.
10) linked systems and resident alien improvements are not functional. recycling is supposed to end all building pollution but its effect is either nonexistent or minimal (taking yuck from 20 to 17).
11) the AI believe it or not is even dumber than on a land derived map. this because the civs are randomly distributed over the entire moon rather than being concentrated near each other. hence the inefficient civs live on until their less braindead neighbors finally encroach on them over a 100 years into a quick game.
I was attacked 15 turns before the date of the first file (in the year 156) by the second strongest civ. we had open borders so it should known I had level 12 tanks to its measly level eight UAV platoons and level 6 tanks. by year 171 I had already taken three of its cities.
the AI refused to talk (so I could not stop the war) until it was left with only one city. its position vis a vis myself was so weak the only damage it inflicted inside my borders the entire war was to kill an engineer on the turn it declared war.
in comparison at least one of the civs from the land based map was not quite so dumb. rather than be utterly destroyed it offered me back the city it had originally taken from me in the first war plus some coin.
another of the land map civs was not so smart. even when I was poised to take its last city with superior force it refused to talk. I waited several turns for it to change its mind and it never did. talk about deathwish.
12) the debris works fine as native goody huts in a Moon map based game. debris is not generated in a non Moon-map based game.
13) I would appreciate a post on this board indicating whether the issues raised in this entry (and entry 835 for a land-based map) will have an interim fix before the overall mod is revamped and the entire tech tree filled in.
my later posts in this thread will try to parse this material for development work.
=============================================
detailed bug report for Moon-Map based SotM game . . .
=============================================
now that I am using "Moon_Map.py" in the PublicMaps folder rather than regular map with moon terrain grafted on there are a different set of bugs. see attached files for game years 171, 205, & 233.
131469
131568
131922
the below analysis is strictly for a play of the mod using a Moon-map from the PublicMaps folder.
see post number 835 for a non Moon-map specific mod spoiler, and an analysis for play of the mod using a land-based map.
====================================
1) the Biodome city improvement is incorrectly listed in the Civilopedia as being available with either Hyproponics or Futuristic Alloys, but is really only available with the latter.
2) unlike the non-Moon map game, the Ion Shield technology does NOT add the one food tile to a dust sea. nor is a port city allowed to build a skimmer (naval) unit in a dust sea tile. the AI civs have not built any skimmers either. (the dust sea can be paved with a road within one's own civ boundaries as previously noted on this board.)
3) it needs to be explicitly stated in the Civilopedia that you can neither build cities nor mine on crater rim tiles. these tiles are all but worthless except for their defense bonus because using Genetic Screening means an engineer specialist will contribute just as much as one of the tiles.
strangely it does not take any more time to build a road over crater rims than any other tile.
my game did not have hill terrain, so the mining improvement was less useful since it only can be used on a tile having a specific resource needing mining.
are you telling me there are no hills on the moon? didn't the moon at one time have volcanic activity that created hills (and gorges)?
4) the Civilopedia also does not state you are unable to build cities on a dust sea tile.
a bug in SotM 0.23 allows the barbarians to do so. see attached year 233 file at lower left edge of the map.
this is a major bug. such a city can never be taken by another civ since such a tile can never be attacked.
5) the military engineer (unlike the non-Moon map version of SotM) has some purpose since he can make radar tower and fort improvements. unfortunately he has the same bug as before, namely this unit is NOT strictly speaking a more powerful version of the engineer unit since there are some improvements such as custom houses the military engineer cannot build.
6) the Wonders are not duplicated, so there can be only one theatre, library, or military site in a city. (the duplication problem is linked somehow to not using a moon map.) however the queuing problem remains, eg multiple turrets can be queued until one is actually built.
7) the university improvement is broken (year 171). it is grayed out saying I need to build a library even though a library has already been built. ditto for the laboratory improvement (year 205). it is grayed since it says I need to build an already built observatory.
not having labs with their 50% spaceship building bonus makes it seem pointless to continue past the intial ability to start a SS casing. (however I did, and won again at "Augustus Caesar" Hall of Fame level in a quick Noble game.)
8) the trade union improvement is an allowed improvement, but worthless. early in the game is costs five turns to get a measly one coin. compare this to the collector which is also available early in the game. some cities come with a free trade union for no apparent reason.
for trade unions to become useful their coinage needs to be raised to at least three.
9) unlike vanilla Civ 4 or Civ 3 if you skip early techs this mod eventually gives you them for free if you wait long enough.
10) linked systems and resident alien improvements are not functional. recycling is supposed to end all building pollution but its effect is either nonexistent or minimal (taking yuck from 20 to 17).
11) the AI believe it or not is even dumber than on a land derived map. this because the civs are randomly distributed over the entire moon rather than being concentrated near each other. hence the inefficient civs live on until their less braindead neighbors finally encroach on them over a 100 years into a quick game.
I was attacked 15 turns before the date of the first file (in the year 156) by the second strongest civ. we had open borders so it should known I had level 12 tanks to its measly level eight UAV platoons and level 6 tanks. by year 171 I had already taken three of its cities.
the AI refused to talk (so I could not stop the war) until it was left with only one city. its position vis a vis myself was so weak the only damage it inflicted inside my borders the entire war was to kill an engineer on the turn it declared war.
in comparison at least one of the civs from the land based map was not quite so dumb. rather than be utterly destroyed it offered me back the city it had originally taken from me in the first war plus some coin.
another of the land map civs was not so smart. even when I was poised to take its last city with superior force it refused to talk. I waited several turns for it to change its mind and it never did. talk about deathwish.
12) the debris works fine as native goody huts in a Moon map based game. debris is not generated in a non Moon-map based game.
13) I would appreciate a post on this board indicating whether the issues raised in this entry (and entry 835 for a land-based map) will have an interim fix before the overall mod is revamped and the entire tech tree filled in.