I started a game as the Russians and built a city where the city of Odessa (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Odessa) lies, and it called the city "Odesse". Surely this must be an error. The city is known in Russian as Одесса (Odessa) and in Ukrainian as Одеса (Odesa). In no language is it known as "Odesse", to my knowledge.

thanks for the info

Since I didn't want to waste a thread on another question similar to this, I'll just post my concern here.

Isn't "Ciudad de México" (Spanish-conquered Tenochtitlan) somewhat redundant for a city name, as it literally means "City of Mexico?" I know it's called Mexico City nowadays to distinguish it from the state of Mexico -- however, if this is to be followed for the sake of standardization, then other cities should follow; for example, "Washington" should be named "Washington, D.C." or "Washington City."

it's the proper spanish name

I always thought it was México, D.F. (Distrito Federal), a la Washington, D.C., but Wikipedia has this to say:

"Mexico City (in Spanish: Ciudad de México, México, D.F. or simply México)...."

Take your pick.

(first post on CFC)

Welcome, Angular!

I think México sounds more simple, I don't know why, but I think it's better. Ciudad de México is a bit of a mouthful.

México is the state. Ciudad de México is its capital.
In italian (Messico / Città del Messico). Simple as that.

I agree with ciudad de mexico

Hmm, but the city, with it's cultural borders, could be seen to represent the state, no?

I like to think that all the cities in Civilization represent a province, not a city... but I prefer Ciudad de Mexico...

I'm Mexican and I'm telling you it's Ciudad de México.

Hmm. But then on the diplo screen it says, when translated...

City of City of México

:crazyeye:

I'm Mexican and I'm telling you it's Ciudad de México.
Yes, but we're wondering whether it represents the city or the province. I mean, with the cultural borders and everything...

yeah, but they are the names of cities not provincis, its dublin not ireland, and athens not greece.

Yeah, none of the existing names represent provinces (although there is some overlap).

Hmm. But then on the diplo screen it says, when translated...

City of City of México

:crazyeye:

You know, I've never liked that about the diplo screen. Why would you refer to it as The City of Washington DC? The City of Paris? I'd say drop it.

I'm Mexican and I'm telling you it's Ciudad de México.

I'm not Mexican, but I speak Spanish, and he's right. :p

that would make sence as we call it mexico city not just mexico, and that looks like its spanish for the same thing to me :p

Danger Bird's point is my point, too. "City of Ciudad de Mexico" is translated as "City of City of Mexico" or, less literally, "City of Mexico City." Unless the diplomacy screen is revamped somehow, it's just plain redundant. Nothing wrong, just redundant.

yeah, but the problem is with the diplo screen not the name.

I'm Mexican and I'm telling you it's Ciudad de México.

:cowboy: Whull, Ah'm Texun, an' it's Mexyco! ;)

yeah, but the problem is with the diplo screen not the name.
Right. "Change either, or lose both."

PS: However inappropriate or silly that sounds, I just had to share it.

Not that it matters, but in French the country is Mexique and the city is Mexico.

Yay for topics totally unrelated to Russia and the Ukraine :D

Yay for topics totally unrelated to Russia and the Ukraine :D

Okok. In Russian Mexico (the nation) is called Мексика and the city Мехико.
And in Ukrainian it is called respectively Мексика and Мехіко.

Satisfied? :D

No for being me but My Dad was BORN In Mexico Distrito Federal (or Mexico DF) No other excuse what so ever:mad:

Another city name changing request... Jekaterinburg to Ekaterinburg.

I always dislike seeing Russians founding a city in the Ural Mountains and calling it "Jekaterinburg". That's better then "Yekaterinburg" in the original game (Ye!) but still looks a bit silly and out of place... I think that simply "Ekaterinburg" is better - after all, it is "Екатеринбург" in Russian - beginning with E, not with Russian equivalent of J or Y.

And I feel I have the moral right to make this request - check my location.

http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/105866/399_ekaterinburg_plotinka.jpg

A place near the center of Ekaterinburg. I actually live in the pink house on that picture.

Russian naming is following GOST_16876-71 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GOST_16876-71) rules, as it does not contain stressed letters and it has been used for many years. How is the city called with that transliteration?

In fact, you can see in this page that the russian letter "Е" is translated to the English "E". So by that logic "Екатеринбург" should be "Ekaterinburg".

I can understand the logic behind "Jekaterinburg" also, for, "E" in the beginning of Russian words is pronounced like "Ye" (or "Je", as you like). However,

http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/105866/Let.GIF

(GOST_16876-71 is 3.0 in that document - notice the absence of "Je's").

Judging on that document (the Wikipedia article linked it to me) the only standart where Russian "E" is sometimes translated as "Ye" is an 1947 one, of United States Board on Geographic Names. So, if you like to follow the recent developments, you'll have to go with "Ekaterinburg". Besides, all these "Ye's" and "Je's" look very werid to me...

does it apply to Jekaterinoslav, Jessej, Jerbogachen, Jenisejsk, Nikolajevsk, Kijev, Nikolajev, Gurijev, etc. too?

Yes, it does. (not to the second J in Jenisejsk, through).

There is no single "correct" system for transliterating the Cyrillic alphabet into Roman letters.

The spelling Ye attempts to represent the sound of the Cyrillic letter E for English speakers with no knowledge of Russian or Cyrillic. The Je spelling does the same for speakers of German, for example.

Spelling the city in question as "Ekaterinburg" would lead the uninitiated reader to pronounce it as though it were spelled with the Cyrillic letter Э.

In Icelandic it's Mexíkóborg, and the country is Mexíkó. Borg means city, so..fine by me :)

There is no single "correct" system for transliterating the Cyrillic alphabet into Roman letters.

The spelling Ye attempts to represent the sound of the Cyrillic letter E for English speakers with no knowledge of Russian or Cyrillic. The Je spelling does the same for speakers of German, for example.

Spelling the city in question as "Ekaterinburg" would lead the uninitiated reader to pronounce it as though it were spelled with the Cyrillic letter Э.
True, but in Russian almost all instances of the letter "Е" are pronounced "ye", including Sankt-Pyetyerburg (Lyeningrad), Smolyensk, Voronyezh, etc. I see no particular reason to include the "Y" or "J" when this sound occurs at the beginning of a word but not elsewhere.

Then again, there are value judgments to be made in any transliteration scheme. You have to balance many factors, including consistency, ease of use, aesthetics, and the ability to convey a more-or-less accurate pronunciation for the uninitiated. There is no perfect way to have all four at once.

True, but in Russian almost all instances of the letter "Е" are pronounced "ye", including Sankt-Pyetyerburg (Lyeningrad), Smolyensk, Voronyezh, etc. I see no particular reason to include the "Y" or "J" when this sound occurs at the beginning of a word but not elsewhere.

One reason: to follow conventional English spelling. This principle applies mostly for placenames, and it applies even when the pronunciation has been distorted, as in Moscow for Moskva. Several formal transliteration systems do use the y (or j) initially but not internally.

Then again, there are value judgments to be made in any transliteration scheme. You have to balance many factors, including consistency, ease of use, aesthetics, and the ability to convey a more-or-less accurate pronunciation for the uninitiated. There is no perfect way to have all four at once.

I totally associate myself with this. And I would add that different factors have different weight depending on the context. Pronunciation-for-the-uninitiated might be less important, for example, in an article on oilfield technology, but desirable in the context of a computer game.

Now don't get me started on soft and hard signs!

If we base our tranliterations based on pronucation, them I'll eagerly await stuff like Smalensk, Ekatirinaslav, Nikalaefsk, Varkuta, Magnitagorsk (Sometimes Russian letters "O" and "E" are pronounced a lot more like "A" and "I" when unstressed) etc.

Several formal transliteration systems do use the y (or j) initially but not internally.

Not the GOST_16876-71 one.

Anyway, I prefer "Kiev" over "Kijev" for aesthetical reasons. And I have a strong distaste for "Jekaterinburg" - to me it is a name of a strange city that is called "Йекатеринбург".