GOTM 17 First Spoiler

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You must have reached at least 0 AD.
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Do not post any details of anything that happens after 500 AD.
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I should have known better. Monarch and difficult (I suppose) maptype don't mix too well with lack of skill and experience :sad: I'm not going to finish this one but I'll give a short recap on what were IMO my biggest mistakes. I'll try to actually finish GOTM next month.

Mistake #1: I was too obsessed by the circumvention bonus. With the workboat that was an Adventurer Class bonus I should have checked the nearby islands before going round the globe. Now I missed the island to the south (one with the diamonds and gold) - I actually managed to get grip of it later but it required warring with two of the strongest civilizations in my game. It's not funny to be the weakest civ when you're hated by the strong ones.

Mistake #2: Lack of (reasonable) city management and dot mapping don't get you to very good position, especially when you're settling on inferior islands due to mistake #1. Hopefully I get these two in better shape before GOTM 18 (actually they're already in better shape but not better enough). In a way mistake #2 could be summarized as lack of experience and skill in general.

What comes to my actual game decisions, I settled in place after moving Scout W-NW to reveal the Corn. Initial build was Worker and research path was Wheel - Mining - BW. I put my second city in the SW part of the starting island (grabbing both Sheep and Fish). After that things went wrong.

First of all I had difficulties in finding city locations that looked good. Seems like someone had stolen hills from this map (obviously there were some hills in the southern island which I initially missed). I think my 3rd and 4th cities were on an island to the east (one with a lake at the northern end and maybe Cows [ EDIT: Not Cows but Pigs. I'm referring to the AgedOne's Pig Land here. ] somewhere in the south, I've already deleted my save so I can't confirm). Southern one of these was crappy production city (at least it had few hills [ EDIT: and Iron - I knew there was metal somewhere because I never settled the Copper Land but waged my little wars with better-than-Warrior units. ]) and the northern one was going to be either commerce or GP farm (never made the decision as the city was SO slow to develop due to lack of production and forests).

5th and 6th cities went to that island on the south. First I took a good commerce city from Egypt(?) and then I pushed Romans(?) out of the western end of the island. Obviously neither of them fancied my actions. I don't think I built more cities before I tapped out (or more like threw in the towel) :cry:

My position at the end of my attempt was rather poor. Two of my closest neighbours were strong and shared a mutual hatred towards me. I had two friendly civs across the map but due to distance I hardly expected military help from them. Most of my military strength had been focused on taking those two cities and elsewhere my empire was quite lightly defended. I was behind in every meter. I guess I could have survived for quite some time but with my (lack of) ability I had no clue how to actually win. Therefore I assumed it would be better to return to Noble and learn few more lessons than to fight this losing war.

Next month I'll do better (don't give up until the second spoilers?) :goodjob:

EDIT: After reading the first few reports I'm starting to feel stupid for abandoning the game so soon. It seems that others have had pretty similar problems with settling and with Hatty. Next month I have to finish, damnit!

Well, I am still in the game at 500 AD but not sure how things are going to pan out.

I settled one spot west of the starting position, which was OK but nothing special.

My first aim was to get a religion, because I like to get one under my belt in archipelago games and with Philosophical Alexander, I should be able to get a money making shrine easily.

I managed to found the usual Hinduism and I set about building an early Oracle after deciding to bypass Stonehenge. I completed Oracle and took Iron Working instead of Monarchy because I hadn't expanded much and need to know exactly where to put my settler to get some metal.

Unfortunately, Hatsepshut settled on the gold and gem island so I had to to go to war with her early, even though she was the most powerful. Luckily, her isolated position on that island meant she could not bring in reinforcements so I managed to get that island off her.

Meanwhile the Hindui Shrine was bringing in enough cash to fund the war and keep science at 100%.

At 500 AD I have 6 cities, but not really enough food to properly fund the specialist economy I was aiming for to get maximum benefit from Alexander's Philosophical trait. Not sure where to go from here. I don't have enough religion to head for cultural so I might look to launch a galleon borne attack on the new top dog, Julius Caesar. Either that, or a missionary spam to see if I can get someone to convert to my Hinduism.

Yay! I've been waiting for this thread, since I want to see what everyone else says before continuing (well, manyone else -- a couple of days' worth).

Adventurer, 50AD. I initially settled on the hill that added access to the corn.

Mistake #1: I was too obsessed by the circumvention bonus. With the workboat that was an Adventurer Class bonus I should have checked the nearby islands before going round the globe. Now I missed the island to the south (one with the diamonds and gold) Smarter than me -- I did find the diamonds island, but didn't settle it soon enough, and Hatty got it. I'm not in a position to attack her yet, since neither my copper nor iron are online yet. The lack of diamonds happiness is limiting the size of a couple of cities that could do with a little more growth.Next month I'll do better (don't give up until the second spoilers?) :goodjob:I'm really really hoping to keep my spirits up long enough to finish this one. Good luck next time.My first aim was to get a religion, because I like to get one under my belt in archipelago games and with Philosophical Alexander, I should be able to get a money making shrine easily.I am really regretting not going for Hinduism; I had the idea it was too hard to do on Monarch. As with the diamonds, I could really have used the extra happiness.

Other mistakes:

On the island to the northwest, IMHO the most valuable spot is on the coast near the stone, so that those of us without early religion have a speedup on obelisks and maybe a chance for the pyramids. I settled near the horses, then near the wheat.
Possibly exploring too much with the workboat. I got circumnavigation, but I've read advice that trading is better if you haven't met everyone yet, since the ones you meet later won't have advanced their "don't trade anymore" counters for trades before you meet them.
I should have gone for copper earlier than I did. It was the second (or, worse, maybe third) off-main-island city instead of the first, and I still don't have the copper available. I may not build any phalanx before they're obsolete at this rate!


On the plus side, I haven't run into any land barbarians, and only one barbarian galley.

Preparation

I’ve played probably more Monarch level games than any other, and have a balanced chance of victory or defeat. However, I’m not good at archipelago maps, so I approached this GOTM with caution.
I played a lot of trial games – usually only as far as the year 0 – to see how I could make them work out. I got rather stuck on the map that Mastiff_of_Ar published in the pre-game thread. Must’ve played that one 10 times!
The trouble was, I didn’t have one really good game in all of the trials I played. Always found myself at or near the bottom of the scores when I left off. (The best one was a random generation where I had stone and horses nearby, built wonders, got HorseArchers and kicked some butt.)

I fancied the idea of a specialist economy, and studied some of the many strategy threads that there are on this. I wanted to use it as a backbone to support a military campaign.

So I sat down to play with a set of notes on research and build priorities by my side. Plenty of coffee, and away I went…

The start

There seemed to me no good reason to move, so Athens was founded in place.
The early scouting quickly exposed the home island. Slightly dismayed that it was just as small as the Mastiff_of_Ar one that I had practiced on so much – perhaps even smaller. I also had to reassess the original guesswork that we were quite far south. Evidently we are closer to the equator, with lands around us in all directions.

My research went: Mysticism – Polytheism, as I was intent on founding Hinduism. I gulped when someone founded Buddhism in 3610BC – just 13 turns in – but held on at max commerce in Athens and founded Hinduism in 3250BC (turn 25)!

I then carried on research with Agri – Mining – Masonry – Wheel – Bronze – Pottery – Writing – Alpha –

Athens built Warrior – Worker – WorkBoat – Warrior – then in 2110BC I thought it had good enough productivity to go for Stonehenge, which we completed 19 turns later in 1480BC.

I had tried various different exploration strategies in practice, sometimes building many boats and sending them off to all points of the compass, sometimes just circling our local area. I felt that the most efficient path was to scope out the nearby islands without getting distracted into going further afield. That could wait until we had more boats a bit later on. So our lone WorkBoat explored to the NW, seeing something of the promising-looking land there, before sweeping around clockwise finding the pig-island to the NE and then heading south.
Coincidentally, just as it approached the island to our SE, in 1330BC, we learned BronzeWorking, so the copper deposit there was clearly visible and sparkling!

So we had completed our first wonder while only having a single city, but now was the time to expand to fill the lands we had discovered (If we weren’t already too late!)

Founded Sparta to the SW of our island, by the sheep and fish.

Taking stock

About 750BC I looked around at how the game was panning out.

Strangely we hadn’t met anyone yet. A lonely world. Of course, we hadn’t strayed too far from home yet ourselves.

Our home island was surrounded by 4 islands that had some useful resources.

http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/22131/805BC_Local_Area0000.JPG

To the NW, the Land of Promise had Stone, Fish, Clams and Wheat – and was partly unexplored.
Pig Land to the NE had … pigs! And some fish. And a lot of jungle.
SE of us, Copper Land had the copper, of course plus sheep and some fish.
Finally, to our SW, Land of Riches had 2 gems, 2 gold, some sheep and fish!

I felt that my priorities were to continue research towards Literature and build the Gt Library, as this was one of the cornerstones of the specialist economy, and also to colonise the lands around us – starting with the Land of Riches and Copper Land.

No longer alone. (Meeting The Others)

Well, we had been getting along quietly alone, but you can only judge your true progress when you see how your neighbours have been doing.

I could detect that progress was brisk elsewhere. The Oracle was completed in 745BC, and Christianity founded the same year.

In 700BC we met Hattie, as our workboat continued its exploration a little further afield, having completed its first circuit. The shock was that she was on double our score (350 to 188) and had a huge string of tech that we didn’t!

Shortly afterward, we met Saladin. He wasn’t quite so scary (230score to our 210).

Very soon, I realised that Hattie was about to overrun us by settling everywhere in the world! How could she afford it? She appeared first on Land of Riches (No!) in 600BC or so. I resolved to get copper and throw her off as soon as feasible.

Back home, I completed research into Alphabet (which I then traded to Saladin for Sailing, Animal H and Priesthood) before heading for Literature.
Getting Animal H showed the horses at the SE tip of Land of Promise, making it even more promising than before.

While waiting for Literature to come up, I indulged in a bit of building the Parthenon, not really expecting to be able to complete it. (Especially as I was stopping regularly to build other units and buildings) I was right. It was built elsewhere in 125AD. I got some good money for my work, though.

I had a pleasant surprise when silver appeared beneath a mined hill N of Athens!

Now we had sailing, I started galleys to take some new settlers to these lands. Hattie had other ideas! I could see that she had squatted on Copper Land in 220BC. How irritating! Now I needed to throw her off of the copper before building good axemen to throw her off the Land of Riches. What with? Horses. That’s what!

Founded Corinth by the horses in 115BC. (Oh, yes, I had plonked Thermopylae down earlier to complete our homeland)

Our religion was doing OK. 2 Gt Prophets by 80AD. The first had built our Hindu shrine and the second settled in Athens.

Stunning turn of events

After researching Lit, I had continued with Meditation – Code of Laws – Archery.
I started the Gt Library in Athens, and brought all of my workers over to join in the chopping frenzy. Athens was set to max productivity, using the various mined hills.
We started this project in 145BC (turn 157).

At turn 177 – 155AD – with still 7 turns to go to completion – I received the news that left me staring at the screen in stunned silence: Saladin had completed the Gt Library.

Where did this leave me? My whole strategy relied on having the Gt Lib. Would it still work without?

I had to reassess. Carry on.

And I really had to get rid of Hattie from our islands!!

Preparing to expand forcibly

In the final years of this spoiler period, we learned Archery and HorseRiding.
As our WorkBoat explored further to the east, we met Cyrus and then Isabella. Cyrus was relatively pleasant, and we traded Code of Laws to him for IronWorking and Monotheism. Isabella was much less pleasant, and went on the ‘Bad People List’. She was weaker than us, though. Hattie would come first on our hit list.

The knowledge of IronWorking was a useful addition. It revealed the stock of the stuff that was on Pig Land (Pig iron?).

We leave this first write-up with Big Al of the Greek preparing his forces for action against Hattie the spam-settler.

Yeah, I missed out on Great Library as well. Seems like Hatsepshut likes the look of gold and gems in everybody's games so far.

Yes. Hattie's been a royal pest.
I found that in several of my practice runs the AI were quite willing to settle a city or two on islands that were right in 'my backyard'.
I generally am fairly happy about this, as you can attack them, take them (and keep them if you wish) and the AI will have virtually no military to back them up with.
Also, you tend to find that the AI cannot mount a concerted attack against you by sea in order to retaliate. Not until later when they have galleons anyhow.
Makes these little island outposts the AI settle into easy pickings for us.

After reading the first few reports I'm starting to feel stupid for abandoning the game so soon. It seems that others have had pretty similar problems with settling and with Hatty. Next month I have to finish, damnit!
Yes, I know how you feel. I have a great temptation to pack games in if I'm not doing too well, or am missing all of my objectives.
I still do this sometimes if its just a game, but I've resolved not to do it again in GOTMs.
It can be rather a miserable experience at times, unfortunately, continuing to the bitter end when you know there's no hope any more.
But earlier on, I think there's definitely more I can learn from not abandonning the game. I'm always surprised to hear of some of the resourceful ways in which players here have improved their lot when in a difficult position. Imagination!

I don't know how things are in your game, but I don't think the AI are using vey advanced military during this spoiler period. Mainly seem to be archers and spears. There's still hope when they're at that level. I just need to get a stack of HorseArchers at them, then some Axemen... hmm. We'll see.

... Not Cows but Pigs. I'm referring to the AgedOne's Pig Land here.
Hey! I've got a Pig Land named for me! :cooool: Cheers.

Pre-game thoughts: on this type of map, I was expecting there to be little natural production potential. This meant that most of my production would come from the whip throughout the game and eventually the draft for units. Additionally, I was expecting there to be little land to cottage so I'd have to get commerce from the coast/sea. As a result, I set up the following early game goals:

Get the Circumnavigation bonus
Build Great Lighthouse (extra trade routes = more commerce)
Build Colossus (extra commerce from the sea)
Build Great Library (just plain useful)
Early forges for increased production from the whip and for early happiness
-Need to find gems, gold, silver for happiness (works nicely with forges)
Plan every city to have at least a food resource (namely seafood) for whipping purposes.
Go light on defenses/military early. It'd take a concentrated effort to launch an attack on this type of map. Also, could expect little barb activity due to the type of map.

Now, onto the game.

Founded on the plains hill SE in order to free up the corn for another city. Early tech progression went,

Agriculture -> Mining -> Fishing -> Bronze working -> mysticism -> masonry

And started with a worker to get the rice hooked up (which was naturally irrigated for the additional +1 food) and to get the hills mined. My scout went scouting and mapped out our island very quickly. Next build was a workboat until size 2 and then went with a settler to claim the fish/sheep spot south west of Athens. Then finished the workboat and began a galley to start out for the navigation bonus. I built another galley and loaded the scout on it to map out the islands nearby and noticed the perfect island of riches to the south west with gold and gems (which worked perfectly with my initial plan to get forges up quilckly):D . This island became my number one priority to settle so I was fortunate enough to grab the island before any of the other AIs.

As you can see by my tech progression, I went for the Great Lighthouse early for a couple of reasons. First to get the extra trade routes and also for the Great Merchant points. Since we were Philisophical, we'd get the GM early which I would use to lightbulb Metal Casting (forges and Colossus):D . I build the Great Lighthouse in 1000 BC, pop the GM in 445 BC and lightbulb Metal Casting. I love it when a plan comes together. I start building forges in my cities to help increase whip effectiveness.

Remember that galley I sent out earlier to snag the circumnavigation bonus. Well, he ended up finding all the AIs and circumnavigated the globe in 610 BC. Of note here, when he ran into Cyrus, we hadn't researched writing yet so couldn't open borders so I just declared on him and sailed through his lands. At first, i thought this was a mistake in that he wouldn't sign peace with me for a long time. But it eventually worked out because the only other civ he knew was Isabella at the time. Note: the AIs are very bad at exploration on these types of maps. It took them a long time to meet each other which I was able to take advantage of.

I popped a Great Scientist in 25 BC and lightbulbed Philosophy and founded Taoism (on my way towards liberalism).

Everything up to this point was going great. I found copper on the island south east and was planning on founding a city on top of it but decided to found a different city first. Well, this proved to be a mistake as hatty decided to found the copper city first. This was bad for me because I was just about to start building the Colossus (double production speed with copper). I thought oh well, just build it the old fashioned way. I popped a Great Engineer in 455 AD. I didn't know what to do with him at first. I could hold onto him to build the globe theater for my future drafting city or use him to complete the colossus which would save my capital 21 turns. I decided to take the colossus which I think was a mistake. Had I used him for the globe theater in my drafting city, I could draft pretty much at will as my future drafting city would be able to regrow almost every turn. Oh well, lesson learned.

My initial strategy played out extremely well as I landed the Great Lighthouse in 1000BC, Circumnavigation bonus in 610 BC, Great Library 350 AD, Colossus in 470 AD.

Some final thoughts so far:
- The extra trade routes from the Great Lighthouse are great for new cities. I was able to get 12 commerce from a size 2 city which allowed me to run 70% science or better throughout the early game. Of course, this also meant I could probably have expaned more.
- I was late starting the Great Library but I kept 3 of the forests around my capital and chopped them after researching Mathematics for the extra production.
- I took advantage of the poor AI exploration. I was able to trade alphabet away early to Caesar since he hadn't met any other AIs. this ensured I still had a "relative" monopoly on alphabet. i also made currency a priority so that I could sell outdated techs to the AI.
- I think I used the philisophical trait decently so far. A specialist economy could definately work well, especially if someone finds that stone early on the west island.
- As I expected there was little natural production so I whipped like crazy to get infrastructure in my cities and to build some units. I wasn't expecting as much land to be able to cottage as there is.
- Current state of Greece in 500 AD: 6 cities with 4 settlers ready to be settled.

Where do I go from here:
- Expand, expand, expand. Almost any city can be made profitable as long as it has a food special. Start exploiting the aggressive trait (ie get a war started). Drafting is going to be extrememly important and with the half price barracks, I'll be able to get +2 happiness from my barracks and nationhood.

P.S. Sorry for the lengthy post. I'll try to get pictures up next time.

GOTM 17 – Alex (Monarch) Contender

This being a Monarch game and Archipelago, I was setting out to a) survive, b) not be too far behind in tech by the time I contacted the rest of the Civs (from which I usually suffer) and c) find some sites to capitalize on production (which is always hard on archi-type maps).
I settled in place. With lots of nice hills and some food around, I was hoping to really max out the production in Athens.

Go mining first. Need copper for UU (just in case I have any close neighbours to “exploit”. After mining it’s on to BW then to Ag to work on the corn.

Naturally sailing is next priority. After scouting out my island I found I was alone. That always scares me because I fear being way too behind and suffering the “surprise invasion of superior tech military” at some point.

By 2260 I have ability to sail. I start on Mysticism next for border pops then to Wheel to hook up resources.

Research begun: The Wheel (11 Turns)

Sparta founded in 1900 BC near the southwestern tip of my island. With the resources on the starting island laid out they way they were I figured three cities were do-able, but without copper I was going to have to get a galley out quickly.

After wheel it was on to Pottery to start cottages to keep up with research.

By 1630 I have both a galley and another settler ready to go. The galley goes out to scout, while the settler waits. I do spot some copper relatively close by to the southeast on a new island! I work to generate an expedition.

Thermopylae founded in 1150 BC near the copper. Must hook up!

Writing (and with that Athens begins a library). By this point I had planned to use the production-oriented capital to both try for the Great Library and then try and stack as many Super-Science-Specialists as possible in Athens to maintain tech pace.

Animal Husbandry

Athens finishes its Library in 805 BC and by now I have settled on science/production for Athens, trying to establish military at Sparta (through the seafood, cottages on the plains and some mines) and also trying to setup Thermopylae (on the new island) as a commerce centre.

User comment:
760 BC & still no neighbours! This is scaring me!

Then in 640 BC my wandering galley meets the Egyptians! And I also spot another seemingly nice island off Sparta. A couple of gems and then some gold mines will make for a nice place (if I can get there in time). And I also spot a great site for a hammer powerhouse to the east of Athens on yet another island!

Alphabet

In roughly 460 BC I come across the Spanish. They come in from the east, but I can’t really determine where they live. Obviously there is a “galley path” somewhere? Then I also meet the Persians.

Archery

Merit Ptah (Great Scientist) born in Athens in 415 BC. As I mentioned, the general plan is to attach every GP to Athens as a Specialist.

Athens finishes: Academy in 400 BC to speed along research!

Iron Working

Corinth founded in 340 BC on the home island directly south of Athens.

Contact made with the Roman Empire in 295 BC

Polytheism

In 175 BC I decide that Hatty of Egypt will be an enemy because she seems to be expanding toward me from the west and has already screwed up the placement of my Gems/Gold city on another new island. Spain I can’t seem to find yet and Rome is equally far off. So I befriend the Persians and trade Alphabet for:
Meditation
Priesthood
Masonry

And, at roughly the same time, I learn Literature really hoping that I can grab the GL! I start the GL in 160 BC in Athens.

Throughout the next while I am building military. Combinations of Axes/Phalanxes and Archers, with the idea of taking away Hatty’s city on the southwest island, are assembled. I also start researching Construction to add Cats to the mix. And make sure that I have enough Galleys to make a quick and powerful strike. I’m quite sure that when I declare (notice I said when, not if) I will feel a reply.

Of course, usually at anything beyond the Price level I tend to be less aggressive for fear of starting something that I can’t finish…getting into a protracted campaign that simply slows me down so much that I cannot recover…and, combined with usually being behind in tech, means impending doom! This game I vow to try short bursts of war, then recover and keep researching. We’ll see how this goes…

In 10 BC, with an assembled military, I declare war on Egypt!

To be continued…

This is my first GOTM, and also my first Monarch game.

I didn't take notes, and I forgot to turn on autologging, so this won't be too detailed. Fortunately, I'm finished with the game, so I can use replay for some vital information.

4000 BC: Settled in place
2200 BC: Founded Sparta (Pigs/Fish)
1330 BC: Adopted Slavery
865 BC: Completed Stonehenge
850 BC: Founded Thermopylae (Gold/Gold/Gems/Gems/Clams)
715 BC: Completed Oracle (Monarchy---Hereditary Rule)
325 BC: Corinth Founded (Iron/Fish/Fish)
10 BC: Circumnavigated globe
200 AD: Completed Great Lighthouse
230 AD: Hatshepsut DOWs me
260 AD: Founded Delphi (Horses/Fish/Clams)
425 AD: Made peace with Hatshepsut

I think I started agriculture, sailing on the tech tree. I built two galleys pretty early and sent them each out with a scout. I built my second city on the SW part of the starting island, and then my third on the "Land of Riches" in the spot that could work all five special resources. I also chopped both stonehenge and oracle; my thinking from the beginning was that I might go for a cultural victory, so I was planning on building lots of early wonders.

I never got the copper city; Hatshepsut got that in 250 BC when I went for the iron city to the northeast since it had more food/better land. The fifth city was to the northwest, on the little peninsula with the horses.

The war with Hatshepsut was pretty much a phony war; no land forces were involved. I think I sunk a couple of her galleys. She razed some of my workboats.

I settled the first two Great Prophets that I got, both in Athens. I didn't try to found any religions, and I got pretty lucky with that as several spread naturally to me. I did pop a lot of goody huts. The main bonus was that one of them gave me metal casting. That was a big help.

Alright, so this is my first time attempting a Challenger start. I was swayed by the arguments that it would lead to better later game teching, and will thus attempt to get a faster world techpace than I usually see. I plan to win by either Diplo or Space Race...perhaps Cultural if there is enough early religion spread.

After looking at the opening scene, I decided to settle in place because I felt there wasn't a really compelling argument to mvoe anywhere else...yes, it appears we are on a small island, but the only place anyone else considered in the pregame thread was the plains hill where our scout started. I briefly considered moving 1NE in order to truly increase the number of cities available on our visible landmass, but I decided not to...fortunately. Once I founded, I saw the corn and was glad I stayed put.

This is also my first time to play through a game planning on a specific victory from the start. My first techs are Mining>Agri>BW>Mysticism>Pottery, I think>Writing. No real big reasons for any of my early techs...I wanted to be able to chop forests, build obelisks, cottages, and farm the corn and rice. I also needed to know where the copper was...it was on the island SE of our starting island. I expanded very slowly compared to my usual expansion. I built Workboat>Workboat>Warrior>Worker>Workboat>Settler>Stonehenge, in Athens. The first two workboats went off exploring in opposite directions, and I quickly met Cyrus, Izzy, Egypt, and Saladin...I met Julius much later, after having researched Writing and getting OB with Cyrus. Sparta was founded 1W of the sheep hill on our starting island in around 1800BC and immediately started on an obelisk.

Stonehenge was finished in around 1200BC and I promptly built a Galley afterward in order to get access to the copper site and the gem city site on the islands SE and SW of the main island. Thermopylae was founded in 675BC on the coast, right below the copper, but as I only had 2 workers at the time and was now attempting to chop the Pyramids, I didn't hook up the copper right away.

In 300BC, Egypt founded Alexandria on the gems location!! That's very frustrating, because I was planning on using that spot to help jumpstart my research with my next settler. Unfortunately, Egypt is my best friend right now...everyone else is cautious with me, while Egypt is +13 with me thanks to her requesting I adopt Judaism and my acceptance of it(+1 for accepting it, +7 for same religion!)

Normally, I would leave her alone because I really hate betraying my friends...especially when I'm planning on a diplo or space victory. However, I feel distinctly that if I allow her to stay right there it will seriously damper my ability to expand and compete with the AI militarily, resourcewise, and techwise. So I use one of my galleys to bring a worker over to Thermopylae, hook up the copper, and immediately start an axe in all 3 of my cities(I had just lost out on the Pyramids by 6 turns). In 370AD, I have 3 axes and a phalanx, I move to Hatty's border and reluctantly declare war on her. I take and keep Alexandria with no losses(it became the christian holy city around 100AD but still had no culture thanks to her state religion being Judaism). I originally planned on only taking Alexandria, as after the war, she would likely still be pleased with me and I didn't want to ruin my relationship with her...but then I realized she only had 4 cities on her main island, and lots of gold and resources there, so I loaded up, left Alexandria defenseless, and headed over to Egypt.

I reached her island quickly and took Elephantine immediately upon arrival, keeping it, and then killed and pillaged the units on her iron mine so she couldn't build anything but archers and chariots. That is the state of my empire at 500AD...I took Elephantine exactly at 500AD.

Summary to this point: I've got 6 cities(4 built-Corinth was built after declaring on Hatty on the hourglass island E of Athens to gain iron, 2 captured), Caesar and Cyrus are ahead of me technologically, but Izzy is backward, Saladin is about even with me. My only wonder is Stonehenge, I lost out on Pyramids and Great Library by 4-6 turns each...Cyrus built them both. Even though I'm Jewish currently, Cyrus and Caesar are both pleased with me(Caesar has no religion right now, Cyrus is Hindu, Saladin is Buddhist, Izzy is Hindu, Hatty is Jewish), Hatty is still pleased with me as well despite us being at war.

This will be brief as my game was not very eventful.

Founded Athens in place. I explored w-nw first but didn't see anything that would convince me to move. Considered moving to the plains hill but figured staying put would be better in the long run.

2020 BC founded Sparta to the southwest. I built another settler right away but didn't have galleys yet, so he sat around for quite some time until I could move him over to the copper.

925BC Great Lighthouse in Athens

670 BC Stonehenge in Athens

550 BC Finally founded third city - Thermopylae on the copper

355BC Alphabet, traded for may techs with it including Ironworking. Still
hadn't me all the other civs, so I continies to trade as I met people.

130 BC I only noticed the nice gold/gems island later and by that time Hotsfoot had already settled on it. I wanted it and began building axemen in 130 BC.

85 BC used a prophet to lightbulb Theocracy and founded Crhistianity in Themopylae. Athens was by this time Jewish and Sparta was hindu - I had no state religion and kept it that way.

155BC founded Corinth on the island NE (so called Pig island) "Pig Iron, Pig Iron, I got all Pig Iron".
455 founded Delphi on same island as Thermopylae

That's it. Haven't decided on a victory type yet. I'm generally growing building up tech and culture. Production seems very slow - maybe in part because I've been playing normal speed games for a while and this one is epic. I'm preparing for an attack on Hotsfoot so I can claim Pi Rammeses with it's gold and gems for my own, but otherwise it's peaceful and quiet.

Thalaba

Nice work, Thrallia.

Hmm, most people are in a similar position at this point in the game. I think Archipelago reduces the number of early game options so people are closer together at this point (with just about everyone having to deal with gold-digging Hatsepshut). My main problem comes with what happens next. It is usually about the Liberalism stage of the game that one or two civs take off and I struggle to catch them. This will almost certainly happen in this game too. Glad to see that I was not the only person who missed out on Great Library too.

Interestingly for me, the gem/gold site is the only off island spot where Hatty had settled in my game, so at this point, she's in major truoble as I attack ehr main continent.

Thrallia, I think that one of the things I need to do to get better at these sorts of games is to make that extra effort to hobble the AI by taking their core cities. I congratulate myself at knocking off a few of their easy outlying cities, but that doesn't really make much difference to a Monarch and above level AI civ.

Hmm, most people are in a similar position at this point in the game. I think Archipelago reduces the number of early game options so people are closer together at this point (with just about everyone having to deal with gold-digging Hatsepshut).

We do all seem to be playing fairly close variants of the same game. More so than in the average GOTM, anyway.
Although I do notice that dr_s has been more of a globetrotter than the average - getting his circumnav by 10BC and settling each of the surrounding islands unopposed! :goodjob:

I'm just waiting for some superhero to appear on this thread in a day or two to tell us all how they're just approaching domination in 500AD. :D

Glad to see that I was not the only person who missed out on Great Library too.

Yes. We all seem to be missing out by 5 - 8 turns. That's the kind of distance off that just leaves me staring sullenly at the screen. For real animation, you need the 'missed by 2 turns'. That's when I start shaking my head around like a groggy drunk and muttering ancient curses under my breath. The family hide the cutlery at moments like that. :ar15:

The Beginning.
Was it just a bad nightmare? Alexander struggled to understand what happened. All he can remember is answering to Zeus….or was it telling Zeus…that he is indeed Great, greater than even the Gods. Zeus’ wrath was immediate. Zeus’ thunderous command to go back to the beginning and prove beyond any doubt, he is Great, echoed in his mind.

The brilliance of the rising Sun woke Alexander atop a grassy hill. He realized he is in a strange land with a young family but they were not alone, there was another with him. Zeus had asked God Hermes the messenger to aid Alexander in his quest for Greatness. Upon Alexander’s beckoning, Hermes began exploring the land to south.

Alexander observed the surrounding land and determined the time needed to move to the foodless hill is not acceptable and settled where he woke. His family started to raise a worker and pondered upon all the knowledge to be learned and determined to found a religion. Their efforts were reworded with the knowledge of Mysticism and the skills to build great monuments and wonders. Alexander realized the pursuit of an early religion will slow the growth of his Civilization, therefore instead of exploring the secrets of Polytheism, the young clan began to pray for goddess Demeter for the Knowledge of Agriculture. Just as the worker was created, the young Greeks learned the mystery of Agriculture to start farms in fertile lands. The scholarly Alexander started to learn the art of Mining.

The Plan
During this time Alexander wondered about his path to Greatness. Should he become a conqueror destroying all who stood before his path? Perhaps he should become a great Diplomat to be adored or He is destined to dominate the world. Domination appealed to Alexander’s great ego, but it will not become a quick Domination. First there are lands to settle, wonders to build, an economy to grow and raw material to acquire. Of the wondered, Alexander did not care to build the Oracle but wanted the Parthenon dearly. It would be a grand temple for him to build a land of many Great leaders.

The Exploration and the Others.
Hermes’ exploration halted when he discovered the south coast of The Greek Isles. Hermes' messages told Alexander of lands fruitful of fish, sheep’s and luxurious Gems to the south. So when the Greeks learned to build sea-going vassals, Alexander commissioned a workboat to explore the seacoasts nearby. Hermes and a warrior kept all the southern lands free of notorious Barbarians for the next few centuries.

The exploring sailors found more fertile lands and coasts surrounding the Greek Isles and met the Queen of Egypt and the Prince of Arabia to the west. Later when a galley was available, these noble sailors gave there all to build a fishing net for the second city. The second city was founded to the southwest claiming the fishing village and the sheep hill. The workboat had discovered 3 tribal villages to the southwest during its adventures. Realizing the potential rewards, Hermes commandeered a Galley and again began his exploration. His discoveries in these villages provided a warrior, gold and experience to the warrior (by accident warrior exited the boat first).

Cyrus the Friendly sailed by to be turned around when Alexander denied him Open borders. Much later, Alexander would meet the Romans and the Evil Queen Crazzy.

The Knowledge and Builds
Alexander knew the knowledge to pursuit is the knowledge needed the most. So the Greeks learned the secrets of sailing, masonry, Animal Husbandry, Bronze Working, Pottery, Mettle Working and Iron Working after Mining. These secrets allowed Young Alexander to build the Stonehenge in Athens, followed by the Great Pyramids. Alexander realized that the Pyramids could be built faster with stones. He stopped the work and started a settler followed by a warrior. One of the exploring Galley’s was recalled for transportation. The new settlement ignored the first Stone site on the Horse Island and headed to the Arabian lands and founded a city atop the Stones in Arabia. Between the capital and the second City, Alexander managed to build the Great Lighthouse, Colossus, the Pyramids, the Great Library (of Alexandria) but lost the Parthenon. Not just lost the Parthenon, never even remembered to start. Aargh.:mad:

The Opportunities and Access
When the Egyptians claimed the gold and gem island, Alexander was furious. But he then realized this is good since the early cities were built to claim copper, Iron, Stone and Horses, the economy is only capable of sustaining the pursuit of Knowledge at 60 percent. The Egyptian City is closer to Greek Isles and easily taken when needed. Then something wonderful happened as the religious Hatty discovered Islam (as well as several other) in the Gem City.

At the beginning of the 5th century AD, The Greek Nation had Six Vital Cities and one “what the hell are you thinking of (at 3 AM)” city :crazyeye: on the Copper Isle, and was only building units to sustain happiness. Miraculously when the happiness became a problem, Zeus blessed Alexander with the discovery of silver within the capital. Alexander schemes to build Maces and cats to start Acquiring additional land when the needed Courthouses are completed. Only the Egyptions outpace Alexander with useless knowledge.

Crystal Ball
The seers has foreseen the glorious news of Circumnavigation and addition of Arabian Lands :devil: with Maces around 12th century.

I had a different game to most of you so far. I settled in place to take advantage of the many hills and the 2 food resources. Exploring the island, I decided that it wasn't worth shoving 3 cities on it so i put my second city down the SW where the sheep was.

Seeing the jungled gems across the water, I decided to go straight for it, so I researched sailing. After getting out a settler and a galley from the second city, I started on the great lighthouse.

Getting to the southwest isle, I noticed that I could easily fit another 2 cities there, one of which would have its own gold too. Beautiful! The great lighthouse is keeping my economy ticking over and so is the 2 gold and 2 gems. Egypt took the copper island but I took the iron one.

I've met everyone else and am clearly first in score and tech. Am still slowly colonising good-looking islands, and planning on wiping everyone out in the cavalry/galleon/frigate age.

Brilliant stuff, Htadus. Very entertaining. Interesting that we are all finding that "random" silver in the hills near the capital. Clearly, it is not random at all.

Lanstro, how can you possibly be first in everything at 500AD? Tell us how!

Nice work, Thrallia.

Hmm, most people are in a similar position at this point in the game. I think Archipelago reduces the number of early game options so people are closer together at this point (with just about everyone having to deal with gold-digging Hatsepshut). My main problem comes with what happens next. It is usually about the Liberalism stage of the game that one or two civs take off and I struggle to catch them. This will almost certainly happen in this game too. Glad to see that I was not the only person who missed out on Great Library too.


I am still not sure I want Hatty out of my Game. I am only about 25 points behind her and well ahead of most others. I know that I will go to war with her soon just to reclaim some of the Greek Islands,:D

By the way are you using the Philosophical trait to generate GP's? Your write up tells me no. It is still not too late. I used GP's, including prophets to learn a tech only one other have and trade it to the rest to catch up. And do not give up on Liberalism, I actually may miss it in this game because I chose to aim for Mil Trade and completed Nationalism first but Hatty do not have one of the prereqs in my game and do not know Education and I started it already. I will land a few units on her mainland if she learn Ed before me to cause some trouble. She is using the two early religions she founded to make money, and she is doing it very well I would say.

I tried to use the Philo trait, but somehow I think I ended up with only about 6 or 7 Great People the entire game...probably partly due to the lack of a good GP farm, and the fact that the only wonder I attempted that I was able to build was Stonehenge...I greatly mourned my loss of the Library(pre-100AD!!, I think) Perhaps I shouldn't have traded Alpha away so liberally...it would have easily netted me 4 or 5 Scientists, easy.

Another thing I forgot to mention though, I didn't do hardly any tech trading at first...I wasn't interested in getting any WFYABTA as I got in my last diplo victory attempt, so I went and manually researched all the early techs I skipped myself so that they wouldn't count against me later when I really needed to get something like Nationalism or Democracy.

Yes, like Thrallia, I aimed to go for lots of Great People but it didn't really work out due to lack of classic GP farm and losing the race to key wonders. I've sort of buggered it all up really, because I don't have enough cottages AND I'm not getting lots of GPs. In fact, my only GPs are coming from Athens, and they are all Prophets. I should have researched meditation earlier so that my GPs would have slinged me Theology first, but I had too much of a muddled tech path to get that to work.

I had the Christian Holy City in my possession before I learned Meditation :D

unfortunately, island game is not my specialty. Heck I cant even swim in real life...:sad:

Beginning:
I settle on the spot. Worker->Warrior->Settler. Found Sparta next to the sheep and fish SW. Research Sailing much earlier and explore SW. Luckily for me, I quickly find the gem and gold island:) . That is my 4th city, my 3rd is the island w/ bronze.

Right after settle on the gold, I meet Egypt. Suprisingly, she already has Alphabet. I wont be able to get that tech for another 30 turns. Meet the rest leaders. Only Cyrus has the most land, Isabella is dangererous behind in tech. For some reason, almost every1 is different religion with each other, Cyrus-Isabella-Juilus manage to still be please at each other while suffering -4 on religious penalty. Are they that peaceful in Vanilla?, cuz I only play on Warlord.

Right now I am on par with the tech leaders, and a relatively weak army. Island games just much less dynamic cuz no war takes place in the beginning. I have 9 cities so far, and feeling the weight of overexpansion. (-20 gold/turn)

This game can drag very long I suppose................. :(

...I greatly mourned my loss of the Library(pre-100AD!!, I think) Perhaps I shouldn't have traded Alpha away so liberally...it would have easily netted me 4 or 5 Scientists, easy...

Looking back, I think I contributed to my own loss of the Gt Lib in horrible fashion.

Learned Alphabet turn 140(400BC) and traded it to Saladin the same turn.
Learned Literature turn 152(220BC).
Waited to finish a settler in Athens before starting Gt Lib turn 157(145BC).
Saladin built the Gt Lib turn 177(155AD). I was still 7 turns off.If I'd thought the race would be that close, then I could have delayed a few turns before trading Alphabet away. Then I could have rushed or delayed the settler.
:cry:

...I've met everyone else and am clearly first in score and tech. Am still slowly colonising good-looking islands, and planning on wiping everyone out in the cavalry/galleon/frigate age.

I'm with Harbourboy on this one. Please tell us more about your game? From your write-up so far, it sounds so easy to be clear in first place. From most of the guys here experiences, and mine, it wasn't.
So how did you do it? :goodjob:

Better report, although I'm a bit :blush:

I wasn't really going to play this when I dl'ed it at 1:30 AM.
With hindsight, I shouldn't have...
I messed up my game plan so bad I was :sad: --- :lol:

I settled S S after scouting that way. This worked out ok, and would have been smart for a long game cause I could fit 4 good cities on the home island.
Plan was to sling to MC with the Oracle and get the Colossus to keep up with research.

However, I needed AH for the sheep and then I muddled up my research and got both Pots and BW way too late for any hope of finishing the Oracle in time. I still tried though (which, of course, also was a mistake) and was only 2 turns off when another civ finished it. So then I went for MC the hard way and lost out on the Colossus with 2 turns left to go?

What is it with me and these island maps? :lol:

I went back and replayed. Still settled south, but changed tech order and builds. I managed to beat my previous Oracle date with over 200 years (pre 1050 instead of around 850). Getting the Colossus was a laugh after that (with Bronze hooked up around 900 BC (I researched Sailing only after BW, which was my last tech before the sling)).
It was just a test so I quit around 600 BC having met everyone except Saladin, but I was firmly in the lead by then. On my first attempt I was a lowly 5th :(

...got both Pots and BW way too late for any hope of finishing the Oracle in time. I still tried though (which, of course, also was a mistake) and was only 2 turns off when another civ finished it. So then I went for MC the hard way and lost out on the Colossus with 2 turns left to go?...

AArgh! Missing two wonders with only 2 turns to go on each!!
"Hold tight Mr Buttkick, the paramedics will be with you soon"

Commiserations.

State of the Greek Empire as of 485 A.D. Alexander leads the world in score, holding a slim lead over Cyrus. The other AI, except for Isabella, are not far behind.

After moving the scout and seeing the corn to the west, I decided to settle in place. That turned out to be a good decision as the mine on the plains hill discovered copper around 1000 B.C. and the mine on the hill 2N sprouted gold in 10 B.C.

Cities: As of 485 A.D., I have five cities.

Athens, capital. Initial build order: worker, warrior, scout, galley, scout, settler, work boat, galley

I’ve also used Athens to build wonders. So far I’ve built:

Stonehenge (1300 B.C.)
Oracle (610 B.C.)
Pyramids (125A.D.)
Great Library (320 A.D.)

The Colossus is scheduled to be completed in 5 turns.

A Great Prophet was born in 610 B.C.,, another in 25 B.C. and a third in 410 A.D.

Sparta, was founded on the SW part of the starting island in 1810 B.C. It has largely been dedicated to producing units.

Thermopylae was founded by the gold and gems on the island to the SW in 865 B.C. The settler used was originally planned to found a city by the copper on the island to the east, but the discovery of copper near Athens allowed me to divert that settler to a more financially lucrative location. Thermopylae is slated to be my financial city. Research of Code of Law founded Confucianism here in 625 B.C. A Great Prophet was used to build the Kong Mio in 35 A.D.

Corinth (355 B.C.) was founded by the wheat on the island to the NW. Corinth is slated to become my GP farm with the wheat, clam and plenty of grasslands to irrigate. Christianity was founded here and the Church of the Nativity was built in 455 A.D.

Delphi (380 A.D.) was founded by the sugar and elephants to the NW. I wanted to beat the AIs to the location to get the additional happiness bonus as well as having additional resources to trade.

I plan on founding a sixth city in the near future on the pig iron island.

Exploration: An early goal was exploration. Sailing was the fourth tech researched (2590 B.C.). Two galleys with scouts were sent out, one east and one west. They met in 805 B.C. near Rome to circumnavigate the globe and obtain the +1 movement bonus.

They also have now found the 5 AIs, meeting:

Saladin (1960 B.C.)
Hatty (1810 B.C.)
Cyrus (1150 B.C.)
Julius Caesar (865 B.C.)
Isabella (715 B.C.)

Another goal was to pop goody huts. So far, the two original galleys/scouts plus a third set sent out later have popped 11 huts, gaining:

Monarchy
Archery
Pottery
Three warriors
Gold (2 pops)
Two maps
Experience

Tech: Research path as follows, aiming (successfully) for a CS slingshot:

Agriculture (3640 B.C.)
Mining (3340 B.C.)
Mysticism (3040 B.C.)
Sailing (2590 B.C.)
Polytheism (2140 B.C.)
Bronze working (1630 B.C.)
Priesthood (1430 B.C.)
Monarchy (1270 B.C.) (hut pop)
Writing (1060 B.C.)
Archery (955 B.C.) (hut pop)
Code of Laws (625 B.C.)
Civil Service (595 B.C.) (with Oracle)
Alphabet (370 B.C.)
Wheel, Masonry, Animal Husbandry (355 B.C.) (trade)
Iron Working (355 B.C.) (trade)
Pottery (325 B.C.) (hut pop)
Meditation, Monotheism (295 B.C.) (trade)
Theology (295 B.C.) (Great Prophet lightbulb)
Literature (175 B.C.)
Metal Casting (50 A.D.)
Mathematics (65 A.D.) (trade)
Paper (290 A.D.)
Currency (380 A.D.)

Cyrus and I are fairly even in tech research. I’m ahead of the others.

Religion: So far, I haven’t adopted a religion so as to not antagonize any AIs. Hinduism spread to Sparta in 1240 B.C. Confucianism was founded in 625 B.C. in Thermopylae and Christianity was founded in 295 B.C. in Corinth.

Diplomatic: Many of the AIs have not met each other. That has kept the AI tech pace down as they are largely unable to trade with each other. I am pleased or cautious with everyone, except Hatty. A near term goal is to continue to hook up several resources that are available so that they can be gifted or traded to increase the “Our trade relations have been fair and forthright” modifier.

War with Hatty: Hatty unexpectedly declared war in 70 B.C., with a “pleased” attitude, probably because she was mad that I beat her to the gold/gems location. Her initial attack force consisted of one empty galley, which was promptly sunk by the defending Greek galley. The only other Egyptian force to enter my borders has been a galley with an archer and a settler. Since she wanted a tech for peace, I sent one galley with an ax and a phalanx in 170 A.D. to pillage and convince her that I wasn’t going to give in to extortion. They have done an excellent job of pillaging and haven’t been attacked. Hatty has mostly archers. I could get peace with her now, with her paying a small amount of gold, but am considering sending more troops to take out a city or two for the gold.

Future course: Before starting the game, my goal was to play for either a diplomatic or a space race victory. Accordingly, I’ve emphasized research. Once the AIs meet each other, I expect the tech pace will pick up.

have popped 11 huts

Wow. :bigeyes: I didn't even know there were that many on the whole map!

We do all seem to be playing fairly close variants of the same game. More so than in the average GOTM, anyway.
Although I do notice that dr_s has been more of a globetrotter than the average - getting his circumnav by 10BC and settling each of the surrounding islands unopposed! :goodjob:Hmmm, I don't often write up my games because I don't think they are ever as interesting as others', but maybe I will this time. It seems I must have done things different than most. Don't have a blow-by-blow account, but I founded in place (when I realized I could get 3 bread + 1 coin from working the unimproved rice if I didn't move, getting my firs worker 5 turns earlier AND speeding my research), I built a worker first. Perhaps nothing much different than other at this point, but by the time the worker was done the scout had revealed the whole Island and already parked himself on the jungled hill in the south to almost completely fogbust the island, I decided I did not need a warrior and, figuring the map was lots of little islands (didn't realize at the time that there were bigger ones, it's just that Alex apparently drew short straw here), I dove right into cranking out two fishing boats as my second & 3rd builds, and sent one in each direction. I quickly got most of the way around, it took me a while to find a coastal bridge to make the jump of the last 5 squares or so (sigh) but I eventually got it -- for some reason my autolog does not record when, but I'm pretty sure it was way, way before 10BC.

Because of all this exploration (which only accelerated once I got the +1 MP for circumnavigation) I believe I had already discovered EVERYONE else before most of them had discovered ANYONE else (even now in my game, well past 1000 AD, there are AI civs that have still not made contact). It also made me find & realize the importance of the gem+gold site site and grabbed it early, before anyone else (although Hap did colonize the west coast of it shortly after I built on the super city site on the east side, now we share it). I moved very quickly to neighboring islands, in fact I only founded one other city on the home island. Although I also thought the iron/pig island to the east of Athens important, I dallied there and lost it to Sal (I even founded a city way over on his island first, where all the sugar is). I still have no iron source, well after 500ad (gonna remedy that shortly I think though, there is still an unclaimed iron resource or not not too far off -- don't want to reveal where because less dedicated explorers may not have found it). My research effort was pretty different too I suspect, for example I got alphabet in 775 BC, but did not get Mysticism until 175 BC!). With aid of alphabet, by the early AD years I recall I'd pulled into what appears to be a permanent tech lead (though it's a bit after after 500ad time frame of this writeup, I had 5 universities built before anyone else even had paper). As someone else pointed out, getting Great Lighthouse really supercharged my commerce (and thus my research). I also got Colossus, I think those may be the only two wonders I have though? I didn't take much advantage of +100% GP trait, through 500AD I had just 3, 2 scientist and then a merchant as the third (built 2 academies and made a caravan to Hatty just BARELY before she broke open border agreement with me after I finally declared a religion)

Another thing apparently different in my game is that I did NOT get any discovered silver, gold, or anything else in the hills around Athens -- and I have been working mines on every one of them almost continuously since early in the game. That would have been nice :( :confused:

I'm just waiting for some superhero to appear on this thread in a day or two to tell us all how they're just approaching domination in 500AD.LOL, rest assured, not me! The score graph shows I was way in last place all by myself for the first couple thousand years, I believe by 500AD I was nipping at Hap's heels for the lead, but definitely not yet running away with it. Much of that lead was due to tech I think, my military was bottom ranked (nothing more than one warrior or archer in each city). I've tried to get on Isabella & Cyrus's good side and use that to keep Hatty and Sal off my back even though I've refused all their demands -- I even bribed Isabella to break open borders with Sal to keep them on poor terms -- that seems to be working. Isabella founded Buddhism and Cyrus declared that too, I decided I would try to use those two as my attack dogs (trying to get more sophisticated diplomatically) so once I got Buddhism in one of my cities I built a monestary and started cranking missionaries out, then converted ASAP. Each of the other civs founded their own religion and are split religiously. Hatty and Sal hate me and Isabel pretty much equally, something like -6. They demand stuff all the time but haven't attacked. I'm hoping Isabella will jump in if they do, though I'm not sure what to think -- I've been giving her stuff for free, got her up to +8, yet so far she has refused to offer a single tech for trading (which is too bad, it would have been mutually beneficial in many cases). No shots have been fired in anger by anyone in my game, for far it's been a 100% pure builder exercise. If I do get attacked my strategy is to whip some quick extra defense wherever it comes & then fight a defensive holding pattern while I hopefully get Isabella and Cyrus to gang up on my attacker. I wonder if the AI is smart enough to see this might happen, it's surprising I haven't been attacked yet given how weak I was (then again, made sure I did not declare Buddhism until I had built some things tougher than an archer).

Well there's a (not so brief after all) synopsis, at least to give a hint that there are others whose games have gone different ways than the majority.

ADDED: here's the history of first contacts from my autolog, to give some idea of how widely I explored early:Turn 53/660 (2410 BC) Contact made: Arabian Empire
Turn 60/660 (2200 BC) Contact made: Egyptian Empire
Turn 78/660 (1660 BC) Contact made: Spanish Empire
Turn 80/660 (1600 BC) Contact made: Persian Empire
Turn 93/660 (1210 BC) Contact made: Roman EmpireI believe I must've circumnavigated right around 1200 or 1100 BC, because I see I got Writing in 1480 BC & I remember one of my motivations to get it was so I could sail through Hatty's coastal waters in order to close my loop of the globe. My fishing boat was just sitting there waiting for it to finish & an open border agreement to be made. I recall that that's what allowed me to find Jules, and that I finished circumnavigation almost immediately after finding him. I knew I got circumnavigation very early but I didn't realize it was before turn 100 until just now, definitely a record for me.

I popped lots of huts but have no idea how many, and never even got a free tech (though I did get 3-4 warriors and some maps, and my scout got a few experience boosts until he was at 10 and they were wasted -- yeah! :( ) I sent a couple galleys out not long after the fishing boats, but managed to get my one & only scout killed by a wandering barb, and the warriors on the other galley found a couple hostile villages. I think there are still a bunch of huts unpopped out there in my game even at 500 AD, I just never got back to get more than one or two of them.

Lots of people avoided moving to get the corn in Athens' radius. Was that to allow for another city?

I think you get the corn if you found in place. I moved so that I could get another city that would use the corn.

A little "trick" I used to prevent hatty from settling "my" territory was to close borders when I saw one of her galleys with a settler on it. This made her take the long way around or just settle somewhere else.

My game was a lot like MarkM's in that I didn't get any metals to pop up on the starting island. Also, except for the phony war with cyrus, no one declared on anyone else.

For comparison, I used a galley and got the circumnavigation bonus in 610 BC.

@wwassme, paper in 290AD. Wow, I thought I was doing good with it in (xxx AD). Well, later. Nice!

I decided to go for a cultural win since I have never tried that before. To prove my pre-game statement that challenger was an advantage for cultural wins, I selected that save. I need another cultural reference to compare against before deciding which save is most favourable.

I settled on the plains hill and started with the worker, then settler, work boat and then the pyramids. The second built warriors, lighthouse and the Great Lighthouse. Both wonders came out at the same time (880/850 BC) and I settled four more cities rather quick. I missed the treasure island, but got the copper and iron.

My three cultural cities are Athens (with 6 cottages), sheep-fish city to the south (with 7 cottages), and the pig city up NE (with 6 cottages).

I am pretty sure that the Pyramids was a mistake, since my expansion was so slow. It's hard to say until I can compare my research pace with someone else. As you can see, the tech pace was *really* slow for me in this game.

3610 BC Agriculture
3310 BC Mining
2800 BC Sailing
2410 BC Masonry
1900 BC Bronze Working
1510 BC Animal Husbandry
1060 BC Writing
895 BC The Wheel
775 BC Pottery
550 BC Iron Working
310 BC Alphabet
295 BC Mysticism
295 BC Archery
250 BC Polytheism
235 BC Priesthood
115 BC Literature
100 BC Mathematics
55 BC Meditation
40 BC Monarchy
5 AD Monotheism
230 AD Music
245 AD Code of Laws
275 AD Horseback Riding
350 AD Drama

@Harbourboy: One of the things I've learned about Archipelago maps is that there are usually a lot of huts that the AI don't reach because they are isolated on islands. Accordingly, investing in a couple of galleys/scouts can pay big dividends.

In addition to the 11 huts my scouts have popped, there are two other guarded huts which my scouts would have died trying to pop. Hopefully, they are still there and haven't turned into barbarian cities by the time I can get a galley with an axe there.

On this map, there may also be islands which can't be reached by galley. After I get to Optics, I plan on sending out a caravel or two with scouts to find those. That worked well in an earlier GOTM, popping a couple of techs.

Erkon: I did cultural as well, using the contender save. My tech path was pretty different than yours; I didn't have Alphabet until the early ADs, for example. (Unfortunately, I forgot to turn autologging on until about 1400 AD, so I don't have a real record.) My culture cities were pretty different than yours too.

I didn't pop as many huts as wwassme, but I did pop a lot. The ones I remember were gold, scout x2, experience x3, Metal Casting, Horseback Riding.

AArgh! Missing two wonders with only 2 turns to go on each!!
"Hold tight Mr Buttkick, the paramedics will be with you soon"

Commiserations.

It is frustrating isn't it. I managed to get most of my wonders through cruilty. I rushed each wonder I built with 2 pop when it was possible. This is new to me since I find it appaling. But I keep on telling my self this is just a game. But it feel wrong.:(

I didn't get any metals popped in Athens either...that woulda been very nice.

I've started through a replay now just to see where I could have improved on my game, and I've thus far founded 2 cities on the stone/horse island, founded the gem/gold site, but lost the pig iron and copper islands to Saladin/Hatty respectively...At 500AD, in that game, I had just declared war on Hatty using cats(as I've got no metals) and taken both her cities on the copper island. Accordingly, I've got 9 cities now, I believe...however, my research has been moving much faster this game.

I put more priority on the Pyramids and Library than before(not trading Alpha away until I had almost finished researching Literature), gaining both of them...so at 500AD, I have recently founded Taoism using a GS, and I've already had 2 other GS and 2 GE's as well(yay for Philosophical and Pacifism) GE's are sleeping right now, 1 GS is sleeping, the other was used for an Academy in Athens...I think if I were to continue this game, it would turn out much like my last one did...which you will hear about in the next spoiler ;)

AArgh! Missing two wonders with only 2 turns to go on each!!
"Hold tight Mr Buttkick, the paramedics will be with you soon"
Commiserations.

Well, not only that, but in the last 'pelago gotm I missed Hindu and the Oracle by 2-3 turns :lol:
This time, I was much to blame so I'm more :blush: than :gripe: It was a very nice map with lots of different opportunities imhso.

I have no patience for finishing games that I play as poorly as this one, so no ambulance for me :p

I just got a bit lazy on this one at key moments. Some better micromanagement of my early cities (such as more productive whipping and better tile usage) would have gone a long way. I also think I should have had a more definite strategy.

Only my second GOTM and I don't know how I finished in the first one but I did things differently.

1. Moved north with the settler and founded Athens beside the corn for the fish and 4 hills, Sparta is south, has the sheep, rice and two hills.
Thermopylea is nestled between the gems and gold and has the clams as well.
Corinth is in the hills to get the iron and fish

By 500 I have the Great Lighthouse and Great Library with 4 cities brining in 150 beakers per turn. Athens(GL + forge) is raising merchants, engineers and scientists and Sparta scientists. Acadamies in Athens and Thermopolyea.

AI only know one or two other AI, I know them all and have traded my way from last place at 130 BC to 4th place by 355 AD.
Hatty, Cyrus, Saladin, Me, Ceasar and Isabela
Hatty has the copper and Saladin the stone.

All religions are out there, I popped Philosophy with a scientist to found Taoism but I'm Hindu to be happy with Hatty and Ceasar (no neg mods with either, no pluses with Issy cause she doesn't have anything to trade and is Ceasar's worst enemy.

I'm learning construction and and have a number of galleys patrolling and waiting for troops.

Can't remember when I got the +1 for circuit but it was with a pair of fishing boats and before 0 AD. Galley with scout out popping huts but getting warriors

the person who got both copper and the precious metal pop up in their capital's radius - wow! nice!

In reply to Harbourboy and AgedOne:

I just reviewed the graphs in the game and the autologger, and actually, I was a little bit behind Egypt score-wise, so my apologies on that mistake. However I was clearly tech lead at that stage and would've had to have made several huge errors in a row to lose the game.

I don't remember exactly what my first moves were, but in more detail, they were something like this: (though my memory could be wrong)

Settler: settle in place once I saw the corn
Research: agricultre, mining, bronze working, mysticism, sailing, masonry, wheel, writing, iron working, mathematics, currency
Capital: builds worker, warrior, settler, workboat
Worker: works both food resources, then mines 2 of the grassland/hills that are next to a river (capital works both foods, then hills)
2nd City: settled in the spot where both hills and the clams were within the beginning radius. Built obelisk (for the sheep), then 2 galleys and a work boat (for the treasure island city)

In the meantime, the worker chops the forested hill to get the obelisk done asap, while the work boat arrives to do the clams. I then mine the hill I just chopped and a few turns later, the gems pops up there, greatly speeding up my research rate. Of course, by now, I'd seen the jungled gems across the water and knew I had to go straight for that.

This is where my memory goes a bit fuzzy. I think I then built a second worker in the capital to keep improving the hills there, while the capital started on the great lighthouse. I was soon working the 2 food squares and 4 hills in the capital, anyway. Meanwhile, the second worker had pasturised the sheep and was starting to build the road network.

When the workers ran out of stuff to do they chopped a few forests to speed up the great lighthouse and the settler. I got to treasure island first and sent a worker with the settler to get the gems up and running asap, while the new work boat started work on the clams. After sending a warrior down there too I then sent both galleys off to explore the world. The warrior found another gold + sheep (or was it pigs?) site on treasure island so that was my next settlement. Around now a great merchant popped up in Athens so I lightbulbed the forge tech and built/slaverushed forges in my first 2 towns.

The galleys found the iron + pigs island, and although my first preference would've been the copper island, Egypt beat me there so I had to settle for the iron. So at 500 AD I had my 2 starting cities, 2 on treasure island and 1 on the iron island.

My galleys soon found everyone else in the world and I accordingly got alphabet and literature. Since I already had currency, I extracted a lot of money from everyone for my techs and was able to research at 100% for many turns. At 500 AD i'm a couple of turns from finishing the great library (I don't usually build it if I don't have marble, but I didn't have much of anything else to build in the capital and Greece is philosophical, so whatever), have a tech lead of 1 or 2 techs and am on cordial terms with everybody as I have no religions. (The person who had the GL built by an AI in their game at around 0 AD - ouch!)

In summary, the key things I did differently are:

1. I only put 2 cities on the starting island, which saved a lot of time for getting to treasure island (ie, not get beaten by Egypt)
2. Got the gems in the second city early because of mining that square so early. Added to that grabbing all of treasure island quickly and...
3. Getting the great lighthouse and currency quickly (along with sticking 2 science specialists in the capital asap), gave me a very strong research rate. Lightbulbing forges only extended that further.
4. Getting currency early also means extracting an average of 100-200 gold out of everyone for some backwater tech like polytheism.
5. And the other benefit of beating Hatty to treasure island is of course, I didn't have to deal with getting a military.
6. Ignoring religion in general means I could happily trade with almost everyone. Of course, I then got the religion techs through trade.

I'm not the type of player who spends 20 hours on a GoTM, my gotms usually go somewhere between 2 and 5 hours and I play on instinct rather than carefully analysing every move (I don't think I've ever taken more than 10 seconds to consider any move), so don't read too much into my game!

Hmmm, so far it looks like Great Lighthouse + getting Treasure Island early are the big differentiators between the players and the rest on this game. This approach seems to be better than my religious shrine gold grabber. So, unlike the early rush on land based maps, in this game, avoiding conflict has had positive effects.

Let's see where things end up then. Still a few weeks to go to find out.

Oh, I play on instinct as well - I have completed this game pretty quickly - but my instincts are usually rubbish.

I was behind Hatty at the 500 AD mark. I think this is mainly due to the fact that she had 3 (I think) gold mines on her starting continent.

@Lanstro, I'm glad I wasn't the only one to lightbulb metal casting with a great merchant. For a minute there, I thought I was completely wrong in doing so.

@harbourboy, I didn't try to avoid conflicts it just never came to it in my game (well, up to 500 AD anyway):mischief: . I think the fact that I didn't adopt a religion and it took forever for the AI to contact each other prevented early wars. In my game I was hopping Cyrus and Isabella were going to go at it when Cyrus adopted a different religion than Isabella but he switched to hers so nothing came of it.

I wish I could play on instinct. Would make this GOTM a little bit easier and faster.

Playing on instinct is easy and fast (but the results sometimes leave a lot to be desired). Don't expect to get much in the way of city specialisation, but do expect to get lots of libraries.

In reply to Harbourboy and AgedOne:

I just reviewed the graphs in the game and the autologger, and actually, I was a little bit behind Egypt score-wise, so my apologies on that mistake. However I was clearly tech lead at that stage and would've had to have made several huge errors in a row to lose the game.

Thanks for the write-up. Hope you don't think anyone was having a dig at you, or anything like that. I think it was just seeing someone doing that much better than myself I went 'Wow. How does he do that?'.

OK. Second on score. But a clear tech lead is impressive enough.


I'm not the type of player who spends 20 hours on a GoTM, my gotms usually go somewhere between 2 and 5 hours and I play on instinct rather than carefully analysing every move (I don't think I've ever taken more than 10 seconds to consider any move), so don't read too much into my game!

Then trust that instinct, if it leads you that well!!
Personally I find that if I play quickly it's like :smoke: :hammer2: :badcomp: :cry:
I guess I'm not the slowest either. I must have been at about the 5 hour mark at 500AD. There have been some truly incredible times recorded. 30 hours plus! Lifetimes!

I guess I'm not the slowest either. I must have been at about the 5 hour mark at 500AD. There have been some truly incredible times recorded. 30 hours plus! Lifetimes!Just an FYI, some people (e.g. me) just leave civ running in the background while doing other things (going to dinner, bed, work, whatever). I think I've left it running continuously for weeks at a time. I see the last game I submitted & have results for (WOTM05) I have 110 hours down for play time -- in reality I think I played the whole thing in two, maybe three sessions (i.e. I only saved & restarted once or twice), the rest of the time I just left it running (on my laptop, suspending the laptop) until the next time I had a chance to play, making one multi day session, over a weekend or whatever. I'm married with kids and get interrupted a lot, so I only play in snatches here and there. I definitely played over 2-5 hours, but I assure you I was not playing for a total of 110 hours -- that's over 3 hours a day for every of the month that the playing time was open! Given that I started it WAY after the save became available, that hrs/day number is even be higher.

I guess some people focus on how long a person plays almost as much as score, but I personally don't get why that's of such interest & just ignore/don't worry about what my times show. But anyone who does pay attention, I probably skew the averages a lot with what I do -- sorry. And I don't think I'm the only one, I can see some people over 200 hours in the results.

@MarkM
Yes. Point(s) taken.
I've certainly never really considered how long people play for before.
Mainly, I was surprised at how Lanstro could play at an apparently high level while only considering each move for seconds. That's remarkable.

I do the same as MarkM. I like to see if I can finish gotms in one setting ;)

Check this out!

By chance, one of my scouting workboats was right there to witness the event.

http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/96076/Balbes-Barbarian_has_completed.jpg

sheesh, first time I've seen that, that's for sure

by the way, how do you get those notifications up the top left about cities growing to size x and cultural borders expanding? those would be useful to have for me to remember to re-assign my cities to work the sensible tiles instead of what the computer assigns

Brilliant stuff, Htadus. Very entertaining. Interesting that we are all finding that "random" silver in the hills near the capital. Clearly, it is not random at all.



Just wanted to point out that Gold "randonmly" appeared next to Athens in my game. So there must be some randomness to what appears

So, after the Persian WOTM, it’s revenge time for the Greeks. :D Interestingly enough, playing on archipelago map – the Aegean Sea? Reminds me of my oncoming vacation trip. :cool: Nice touch, but IMO the leader traits/UU are ill suited for the map type. Anyway, I feel more than comfortable at this difficult level, so that doesn’t matter much to me.

Up to 500AD, it is a builder’s dream game. Troops produced: 3 warriors, 3 archers, 1 axeman. Also 4 ferry-boats (well, galleys). Units killed: 1 barb galley. Units lost: none. So much for an aggressive leader. :lol:

Greek empire has 6 cities: Athens (in place, 4000BC), Sparta (fish/sheep SW, 2290BC), Thermopylae (atop copper, 2 fish, SE, 985BC), Corinth (horse/fish/clams, NW, 880BC), Delphi (2 gold/2 gems/clams SW, 205BC), Pharsalos (iron, 2 fish, NE, 215AD). Maybe I got lucky as no AI tried to settle these areas. Or I just did it early enough?

Research went Agri, mining, BW, AH, Myst, Sailing, Writing, Wheel, Pottery, Alpha (595BC). I got Poly, Archery, Masonry, Med, Monotheism, IW, Math, Monarchy from trade before 100AD. Further research was MC, priesthood, CoL, CS, Construction and Paper (due 530AD). Until the cut date I popped 5 huts – got Literature and Compass, 1 map, 1 warrior, some gold.

I didn’t try to build too many wonders, but succeeded in the few ones I tried: SH (1690BC), Glhouse (250BC), Colossus (35AD), all in Athens. I got the navigation bonus at some point, but somehow the autolog doesn’t record it in the current HoF mod version.

Great people: GP 790BC (settled in Athens), GS 310BC (Academy in the gem/gold city), GP 245AD (settled in Athens). Being philosophical, maybe I should have used more specialists, but I wanted the commerce from coast and cottages, besides the pop growth for whipping.

Contacts made: Cyrus (1090BC), Julius (895BC), Hattie (340BC), Izzy (485AD). Scorewise, I am #2, but just a few points below Hattie.

Religions: none. I can’t remember the last game I actively pursued the founding of a religion. I used to value it a lot higher when I started playing, now I almost forget about this aspect of the game.

About the random metals, copper did appear near a secondary city, but only after the cut-date. I don’t believe there is a pattern. Only probability is involved.

And about the wise barbarians: I didn’t get as lucky as Balbes, but they did build Hanging Gardens in my game, but again after the cut-date for this spoiler.

From now on, it looks to me the game will be an easy diplo (front or back door) win. However, it won’t be anywhere close to a fast finish.

sheesh, first time I've seen that, that's for sure

by the way, how do you get those notifications up the top left about cities growing to size x and cultural borders expanding? those would be useful to have for me to remember to re-assign my cities to work the sensible tiles instead of what the computer assigns

It's a part of HOF. You switch it on in the options selector in the game - the icon next to the civilopedia '?'

About the random metals, copper did appear near a secondary city, but only after the cut-date. I don’t believe there is a pattern. Only probability is involved.

I agree it is random probability. Since Ainwood removes huts near the starting location to reduce the chance that players will randomly get a jump start by popping an early tech, I seriously doubt that he would do anything to increase the chance of resources appearing. Either the RNG gods have been kinder than usual to several players or it is within the normal range of resources appearing that just happens to have been noticed and commented upon in this game.

jesusin, contender. Goal: fastest conquest.

Plan: To tell the truth, I had no plan. I only thought “I must explore a lot, I want a lot of GS, I want the GLIB”.

Capital: I moved the scout to the western hill, saw the corn and thought “what a pity if I settled in place and then there were fishes North just out of reach”. So my settler “passed” his fist turn. Settled in place on the second turn. I had never done that before.

Worker-Workboat-Warrior-Settler-Workboat-Galley-Settler
Agric-Mining-AH-Sail-Writing-BW-Wheel-Alpha(820BC)

I was researching the most needed thing, not beelining at all. Delaying BW so much was a mistake, it is true that whipping in the capital was counterproductive, but the rest of the cities needed it. After Alphabet and Lite I beelined to Construction and then to CS. MC came before 500AD too.

I didn’t explore the gems well enough, I saw one of them in the jungle and decided to settle there only after I knew IW… too late. I had to make a short war with Hatty to raze her ill-placed-holy city there.

City placement

Greek empire has 6 cities: Athens (in place, 4000BC), Sparta (fish/sheep SW, 2290BC), Thermopylae (atop copper, 2 fish, SE, 985BC), Corinth (horse/fish/clams, NW, 880BC), Delphi (2 gold/2 gems/clams SW, 205BC), Pharsalos (iron, 2 fish, NE, 215AD).

I had 6 cities in 1AD, almost in the same places as Conquistador63, the only difference being that Saladin took the iron city while I built an ivory+sugar city in the Arabs’ landmass. My economy wasn’t strong, so I refrained from building any more cities till 500AD.

At 500AD I have just dowed Hatty again and landed my invasion force (2Cats, 2Ele, 2Axe) on her iron. Nobody knows Feudalism yet. I have built the GLIB and NatEpic, I am starting Colossus, I have circumnavigated, I have had 3GS, the first joined my capital, the second built an Academy in the capital, the third is waiting to help against Education. I have disbanded the initial scout, I have found three hut, giving money, Compass and Barbs. Pyramids have just been built far away. Parthenon isn’t built yet.

Religion? What’s that? You mean those strange three things that have spread to our cities? Who cares about that?

500AD stats: 6cities, 38pop, 4worker, 4Gal, 16 land units, 21fpt excess, 50hpt, 118bpt, -33gpt, 73GPPpt, 0 cottages, 10+ hours.

What could I have done better?
- Earlier BW.
- GLH, I really miss it.
- Pyramids were the key to this map. Too much food, too little hills, not too much happiness, the answer of course is SE.
- I should have chosen another goal, like culture. That way I would have saved hours and hours of RT. This is not going to be quick at all.

My opinion on this GOTM? It a laugh that every AI has a mounted UU and we are Greece, when our UU is obsolete before we interact with them.

My opinion on resource popping? I think it only comes to show that Epic speed is not balanced. Compare the frequency of resource popping in your Normal speed games and your Epic speed games… By the way, nothing popped in my game.

Poll: What are you going to do with your gems-gold city? I am going to stagnate it at size 5, working all five resources with a lighthouse. Would it be a better idea to stop working both gold for a few turns so as to grow more and be able to work a couple of cottages in addition to the resources?

@jesusin: not sure if it was the best idea, but I farmed it all over, a couple farmed grassland tiles (+3 food before Biology) allows +2 food, and is enough to keep it growing, so I can use the coastal tiles or farmed plains. When Biology kicks in I'll be able to hire a few scientists. I had never done that before, but I got Academy there the moment I founded it. I'll eventually build Oxford in it. I'll save Athens for HE and Wall Street (2 priests settled there).

If I recall correctly, there are a couple of riverside grassland tiles that can be farmed immediately. I think that I farmed those over and worked them so that I could continue growing while I worked all the mines.

I farmed over the riverside tiles and turned the rest into cottages...seemed to work pretty well...it grew to a nice size and was working a few towns toward the end.

wow, barbarian actually built a wonder! They are practically asking you to take that city

I’m playing with the Contender setting. Looking for something a little different this time out, I decided to play a cultural game that would hopefully get a lot of mileage out of Alexander’s Philosophical trait. My early-game strategy was to use the Oracle to get Code of Laws, and then make use of the resulting Great Prophets to get big head starts on Civil Service and Philosophy. To accomplish this I’d have to avoid Masonry and Alphabet for awhile. If it worked I would have at least two religions founded, early access to Bureaucracy, and some good tech trading bait. I’d also be well-positioned to go after Liberalism.

I spotted the Corn with my scout and decided to settle in place, build a Worker, and research Agriculture.

A Singleminded Slingshot

I wanted to get the Oracle built as quickly as was practical so I could start generating great person points. So I emphasized commerce over production in Athens early on. My initial research went like this: Agriculture -> Mysticism -> Mining -> Polytheism -> Priesthood -> Writing.

I actually started on Polytheism immediately after Mysticism on the off-chance I’d get to establish Hinduism, but then switched to Mining when someone else got there first.

I started building the Oracle in 2350 BC, before producing a Settler. Perhaps not the best long-term move, but like I said, I wanted to try something different. The Oracle was completed in 1690 BC and I took Code of Laws just as I’d planned.

With Code of Laws and the Oracle in hand, I didn’t think I had to actively do much for the rest of my plan (Civil Service and Philosophy) to unfold. So long as I avoided Masonry and Alphabet the Great Prophets would do most of that research for me.

Moving Out

The obvious downside of my play thus far was that I hadn’t explored the neighboring islands or built a second city. I needed to get my planned culture cities 2 and 3 into place as soon as possible. I didn’t like any locations on the start island for this purpose, but I did send my first settler south to the Fish Sheep area with plans to have it be a military production center. Sparta was established in 1240 BC.

Broadly speaking, all of my non-culture cities would need to be as hammer-rich as I could get them since they were going to be constructing lots of Temples and probably a bunch of Missionaries as well. Ideally the culture cities would have lots of hammers as well, but they would also need some capacity for cottaging and farming.

Athens finished a Galley in 1120 BC, and it set off exploring with my Scout. The first island I found was to the NW of Athens, and there I found what I felt was an excellent site for my Great Person Pump, which would also be my second culture city. It had Fish, Wheat, Clams, and a lot of grasslands with a river. Thermopylae was founded there in 610 BC.

Civil Service

Meanwhile, back on the home island, Athens started building the Parthenon, to maximize my Great Person generation and to get some Great Artist points into the mix. While I was hoping for at least two more Great Prophets I knew I’d need to switch over to Artists eventually. I aided Parthenon-construction by chopping all of the forests within reach. Sparta had reached size two, built a Work Boat for the fish, and started on Settler #4.

My first Great Prophet (Moses) arrived in 770 BC. He was promptly lightbulbed into Civil Service, leaving a manageable 15 turns or so of research left to do. After finishing off the tech I was already working on, I turned to CS, discovered it in 460 BC. After the obligatory few turns of forgetfulness, I switched on Bureaucracy.

But Now What?

It was now 340 BC. The Parthenon was recently completed, and my fourth Settler was on his way to Treasure Island to found what I expected to be my third cultural center. Then Hatty showed up out of nowhere and settled by the Gold and Gems just a turn before I could reach them. Obviously that was very frustrating. War wasn’t really an option, however. I had no military to speak of and building one would just distract me from my cultural goals. So I reluctantly headed all the way around my home island and settled Corinth on the hilly grassland island to the east in 130 BC, with Iron and a food resource. A less than ideal cultural city location but it would serve, I hoped.

On the bright side, Hatty had Alphabet and was willing to trade me a couple of techs for Code of Laws. I sat on Civil Service for the time being.

After getting Civil Service, I made a mistake with my research. I forgot I needed Monarchy to enable my Great Prophet to pop Philosophy, and researched Paper instead. It was going to take quite awhile to get but I figured I’d be able to trade for most everything cheaper than Civil Service and Philo, so I might as well keep working towards Liberalism. When my second Great Prophet (Zoroaster) arrived in 100 BC, I realized my mistake but decided not to waste the research I’d put into Paper by switching to Monarchy. Instead I built the Kong Miao in Athens, boosting my economy and culture and helping me to research Paper in 245 AD.

I made contact with Saladin in 55 BC when he settled on the Copper island. I discovered Cyrus, Izzy, and Caesar somewhat later, as my Galleys went exploring. None of them had Alphabet at this point so there was no tech trading.

State of the Empire: 500 AD

By 500 AD, I had established a fifth city, Delphi, near the Stone on the NW island. And I had researched Monarchy (410 AD) and used my third Great Prophet to get most of Philosophy researched (discovered in 545 AD). Besides that, I was mostly concentrating on getting some more Settlers out to the best production sites I could find, building up some defensive units, and spreading religions and building religious structures in my cultural cities.

Complete list of techs researched:

Agriculture 3640 BC
Mysticism 3340
Mining 2860
Polytheism 2620
Priesthood 2380
Writing 1870
Code of Laws 1660 (from Oracle)
Sailing 1420
Bronze Working 920
Mediation 820
The Wheel 685
Civil Service 460 (with Great Prophet)
Pottery 325
Animal Husbandry and Iron Working 310 BC (trade)
Paper 245 AD
Monarchy 410 AD
Philosophy 545 AD (with Great Prophet)

Heathcliff

Contender.

Hi guys, this is my first post here and I have never submitted a game yet. But I have played through the other GOTMs and I have had great fun reading your different strategies.

Settled in place, the capital looked like a very good productioncity with all those hills. It would have been very good at building soldiers and have an early war, but with the small island it was good for building wonders instead. Athens Built:

Worker – workboat – worker – warrior - warrior – settler (chopped) – galley (chopped) – warrior - settler (chopped) – pyramids

Tech: Agri, Mining, Bronze Working, Sailing, The Wheel, Masonery, Mysticism, Pottery, Library Alphabet, Litterature and Construction…….

I sent the workboat north rounding the island to northwest, I like to get preferably marble, but stone is also okey. Seeing the stone I decided to go for the pyramids, which I consider to cost to much to build if you don’t have stone. Then it’s better to go for the Oracle. I built my second city just south of the stone, timing so that I started to built pyramids when the stone was hooked and another settler/warrior ready for the island to the southwest with the gold and the diamonds that the workboat found on its next trip.

I never use to adopt a religion unless I have a very good reason, it’s not just worth to delay the Alpahbet to get the religious Techs. As you can get them by trading if you reaches alphabeth first. The Egyptians went down the religiouspath in my game with an incredible techspeed, thanks to those 3 goldmines next to their capital. They had founded nearly all of them after they finished the Divine Right Slingshot in 245BC.

It’s often considered the best strategy to cottage every square and never farm, and I agree it’s often the case. But both in the capital and the treasure city I farmed instead, thinking that one farm can feed one mine. I planned to build a lot of wonders in the capital and use it as a great person farm, which it had decent of food for. Lots of grassland and two specialfarms.

I haven’t apprieciated the philosophical trait until this game, but if it is used right it’s very powerful. So how do the perfect GP look like? The pyramids to get representation for +3 breakers and 2 happy guys are nice. I built the pyramids around 700 BC. It’s important to get it up early, because the best thing with the pyramids is that it generates a great engineer which you can use to get Great Library.


http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/104905/gotm1.jpg


I belive it was the right thing to wait to build a city south on the main island. I only built it around 100 BC, because 3 cities is enough to not stifle your economy, and it don’t really give you any big benefits. Like the stone with the other city and the gold from the goldcity.


http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/104905/GOTM2.jpg


Here is the situation around 0AD. Working all the 4 mines at the same time.


http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/104905/gotm3.jpg



http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/104905/gotm4.jpg


When I got the Great Engineer -> Great Library, too have a chance to get GS for academies. It would be strange if Greece won´t get any of Socrates, Plato or Aristoteles.
I thought, when I have stone I should use it. And with stone the hanging gardens is very cheap, so I built it, also some nice Great Engineer GPP. Of course The National Epic is the key to high GP growth rate for its +100%. But I don’t think Parthenon is worth building, it’s expensive and just not worth it for +50% in all cities when you have to specialize one city for it anyway. Also pacifism is great for another +100%, converted to budism and to pacifism upon researching philosophy. I also built in 800 AD a wonder I have never built before, the Ankor Wat. It’s quite nice to get the chance to get 3 more priest working. So you don’t have to adopt Caste System to get enough spots for scientists. Of course priests are worse because you cannot lightbuble technologies with them later on, but I thought about employing them instead making full use of representation. I haven’t calculated on it which is more effective.
Here is Athens 935 AD with sweet +132 GGP/turn. Im still only 3rd in score but has a solid techlead which will increase when the GGP start to come.


http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/104905/gotm5.jpg


It’s about time to think about how to win the game. Cultural is easiest but it’s not the most fun. I’ll have to think about it.

Poping resources:

This is one of the reason I dont like low difficulty levers, poping silver of copper/iron in your capital makes the games incomparable. Especially in this games when copper/iron is not automaticly avialable (as you see, some people did miss out the needed island).

Is it possible to disable this resourse poping? Or at least make it less likely? That would make GOTM better in my opinion.

Do I need to say that nothing popped in my game ;)

Great Library:

Do not trade away alpha if you want it, AI does not prioroties alpha so thats the way you can easily grab GLib (I usually have no problem to get it at immortal even without marble).

Best move read about:

Invading egypt as early as possible, I think this is gong to be huge. Looking forward to the final spoiler to see how it worked out.

Spoiler tonight when I'm home from work if I have the time.

Resource popping cannot be influenced without a mod...and I don't think the chances are different based on difficulty level....I think the chances are set upon creation of the save...which is why I think there are so many this time around.

When I first saw the game parameters, I thought I would play for either Conquest or Domination. The AI's generally stink @ water maps so it should be pretty easy, right! :rolleyes:


The Early Years (T1-100)

I scouted to the SW-SE and decided to settle on the plain shill SE of the start position figuring I could get another city in the north later. I regretted it as soon as I was able to see the corn, oh HELL!
Research order was (T# = turn completed), Sailing T18 - Agriculture T30 - Mining T39 - Bronze Working T58 - Animal Husbandry T70 - Writing T83 - The Wheel T93 - Mathematics-
Build order in Athens was, Warrior T11 - Worker T30 - Galley until size 3 - settler T57 - finish galley T64 - settler T81 - Lighthouse (pop rush)T86 - Warrior T87 - Library -
Found Sparta 2E of sheep on T61 build, Work Boat T75 - Lighthouse T100 -Warrior T92
Found Thermopylae S of Copper on T86 build, Work Boat T100 -

Assets @ T100: no known civs
3 cities,
Lighthouses - Athens, Sparta
Libraries - building in all 3 cities but Thermopylae will change to Lighthouse.

Troops: 3-warriors, 1 galley, 1 worker, 1 scout

I have explored with the galley around the home island and around the islands to the NE, E, and copper island and the island SW of copper isle. Stupidly, I don't have the scout on the exploring galley.

Explore and Expand (T101-200)
T101
All 3 cities building Libraries! Researching Mathematics.
At this point I haven't met anybody. Thoughts of an early war are fading and I feel that research will be hard to maintain as I expand away from Athens. I have only seen 1 of the Gems in the SW and have not explored around that island at all. I decide to make a push for the Great Lighthouse to fund more research since it looks like all cities will be coastal for a while. I change research to Pottery on T101 as my worker is standing around Thermopylae with nothing to do.
Research Pottery T107 - Masonry T116 - Mathematics T126 - Alphabet T143 - Archery T145 (Trade I think?) - Currency T158 - Polytheism T161 - Iron Working T166 - Priesthood T167 - Meditation T168 - Construction T173(from hut) - Metal Casting T180 - Compass T181(bulb GS) - Code of Laws T186(trade ?) - Civil Service T187 - Monotheism T188 - Start Machinery!

Athens build order, Library T104 - Galley T113 - Granary T124 - Work Boat T129 - ....see autolog!
Sparta build order, Library T118 - Worker (pop rush)T125 - Granary T134 -....
Thermopylae build order, Lighthouse (pop rush)T111 - Library T132 - ....

T111 I meet the Persians, T122 Romans, T128 Egypt, T137 Arabia, T167 Spain,

T145 Great Scientist born in Thermopylae and used to build Academy.
T180 Great Scientist born in Thermopylae used to lightbulb Compass.
Somewhere around T120 (after seeing about 4-5 huts) I realized that my exploring galley needed to carry the scout, so I built another galley and headed out to go hut popping.

Just as I was ready to build the ultimate gem/gold city, Caesar founded in the wrong spot (SW of garden spot) missing the Clams and 1 of the Gems. I declared on T150 and moved in with my lone Axe. I won @ 68% :D on T151 and founded Corinth that turn in the only great spot getting all 5 resources.

Circumnav bonus achieved somewhere around T140.

Athens built The Great Lighthouse on T141! Chopped 2 forests.

It was a little earlier that I started to realize how resource poor this map seemed to be. I decided that all future cities needed to grab as many resources as possible in the fat cross. It also seemed like I was doing OK so far. At T150 when I declared on Caesar I was squarely in last place behind Hatty, Cyrus, Caesar, and Saladin! But I was fighting now and things were looking up.

Made peace with Caesar on T170.

I am also re-evaluating Victory options at this point.

Assets @ T201 (515AD) 3rd place behind Hatty and Cyrus, ahead of Caesar, Saladin, and Isabella.
6 cities, including Delphi NW of Athens on the island grabbing the horses and the 2 sea resources, and Pharsalos NE of Athens grabbing the Iron and 2 sea resources.
Barracks - Athens and Sparta
Libraries - Athens, Sparta, Thermopylae, Corinth, building in both Delphi and Pharsalos
Granaries - Athens, Sparta, Thermopylae, Delphi, building in Corinth
Forge - Athens, building in Sparta and Thermopylae
Harbor - Athens
Academy - Thermopylae

Troops: 6 warriors (some of these were popped from huts 2? and are not in boundaries), 5 axes, 4 galleys, 3 scouts, 3 workers, 1 work boat

The Autolog

Turn 100/660 (1000 BC) [31-Mar-2007 23:48:53]
Sparta finishes: Lighthouse
Thermopylae finishes: Work Boat

Turn 101/660 (985 BC) [31-Mar-2007 23:49:28]
Sparta begins: Library (34 turns)
Thermopylae begins: Library (135 turns)
Research begun: Pottery (8 Turns)
Thermopylae grows: 2

Turn 102/660 (970 BC) [01-Apr-2007 00:01:28]
Research begun: Masonry (9 Turns)
Thermopylae begins: Lighthouse (15 turns)
Research begun: Pottery (7 Turns)
Research begun: Pottery (7 Turns)

Turn 103/660 (955 BC) [01-Apr-2007 00:02:29]

Turn 104/660 (940 BC) [01-Apr-2007 00:02:36]
Athens finishes: Library

Turn 105/660 (925 BC) [01-Apr-2007 00:03:28]
Athens begins: Galley (10 turns)
Athens grows: 4

Turn 106/660 (910 BC) [01-Apr-2007 00:04:20]

Turn 107/660 (895 BC) [01-Apr-2007 00:04:33]
Tech learned: Pottery

Turn 108/660 (880 BC) [01-Apr-2007 00:05:07]
Research begun: Masonry (7 Turns)
Research begun: Mathematics (15 Turns)

Turn 109/660 (865 BC) [01-Apr-2007 00:05:38]
Christianity founded in a distant land

Turn 110/660 (850 BC) [01-Apr-2007 00:07:52]
Research begun: Masonry (7 Turns)
Thermopylae grows: 3

Turn 111/660 (835 BC) [01-Apr-2007 00:08:17]
Contact made: Persian Empire
Thermopylae finishes: Lighthouse

Turn 112/660 (820 BC) [01-Apr-2007 00:08:45]

Turn 113/660 (805 BC) [01-Apr-2007 00:10:29]
Athens finishes: Galley

Turn 114/660 (790 BC) [01-Apr-2007 00:10:42]
Athens begins: Granary (12 turns)

Turn 115/660 (775 BC) [01-Apr-2007 00:11:22]

Turn 116/660 (760 BC) [01-Apr-2007 00:11:47]
Tech learned: Masonry
Athens grows: 5

Turn 117/660 (745 BC) [01-Apr-2007 00:11:55]
Research begun: Mathematics (11 Turns)
Athens begins: The Great Lighthouse (34 turns)
Sparta grows: 4

Turn 118/660 (730 BC) [01-Apr-2007 00:14:25]
Sparta finishes: Library

Turn 119/660 (715 BC) [01-Apr-2007 00:15:10]
Sparta begins: Worker (10 turns)
Thermopylae grows: 4

Turn 120/660 (700 BC) [01-Apr-2007 00:15:27]

Turn 121/660 (685 BC) [01-Apr-2007 00:15:58]

Turn 122/660 (670 BC) [01-Apr-2007 00:17:12]
Contact made: Roman Empire

Turn 123/660 (655 BC) [01-Apr-2007 00:18:28]

Turn 124/660 (640 BC) [01-Apr-2007 00:19:06]
Athens finishes: Granary

Turn 125/660 (625 BC) [01-Apr-2007 00:19:24]
Athens begins: The Great Lighthouse (34 turns)
Athens begins: Work Boat (5 turns)
Sparta finishes: Worker

Turn 126/660 (610 BC) [01-Apr-2007 00:20:13]
Sparta begins: Granary (23 turns)
Tech learned: Mathematics
Sparta's borders expand

Turn 127/660 (595 BC) [01-Apr-2007 00:20:49]
Research begun: Alphabet (20 Turns)
Athens grows: 6

Turn 128/660 (580 BC) [01-Apr-2007 00:23:37]
Contact made: Egyptian Empire
Christianity has spread: Sparta
Thermopylae grows: 5

Turn 129/660 (565 BC) [01-Apr-2007 00:25:12]
Athens finishes: Work Boat

Turn 130/660 (550 BC) [01-Apr-2007 00:26:16]
Athens begins: The Great Lighthouse (34 turns)

Turn 131/660 (535 BC) [01-Apr-2007 00:26:53]
Sparta grows: 4

Turn 132/660 (520 BC) [01-Apr-2007 00:27:40]
Thermopylae finishes: Library

Turn 133/660 (505 BC) [01-Apr-2007 00:28:20]
Thermopylae begins: Granary (15 turns)

Turn 134/660 (490 BC) [01-Apr-2007 00:29:13]
Sparta finishes: Granary

Turn 135/660 (475 BC) [01-Apr-2007 00:30:27]
Sparta begins: Axeman (13 turns)

Turn 136/660 (460 BC) [01-Apr-2007 00:31:19]
Athens grows: 6

Turn 137/660 (445 BC) [01-Apr-2007 00:32:24]
Contact made: Arabian Empire
Thermopylae finishes: Granary
Attitude Change: Cyrus(Persia) towards Alexander(Greece), from 'Cautious' to 'Pleased'

Turn 138/660 (430 BC) [01-Apr-2007 00:35:29]
Thermopylae begins: Settler (22 turns)

Turn 139/660 (415 BC) [01-Apr-2007 00:36:40]
Sparta grows: 3
Sparta finishes: Axeman

Turn 140/660 (400 BC) [01-Apr-2007 00:37:36]
Sparta begins: Settler (13 turns)
Sparta begins: Axeman (11 turns)
Thermopylae's borders expand
Civics Change: Hatshepsut(Egypt) from 'Despotism' to 'Hereditary Rule'

Turn 141/660 (385 BC) [01-Apr-2007 00:39:16]
Athens finishes: The Great Lighthouse
Sparta grows: 4

Turn 142/660 (370 BC) [01-Apr-2007 00:40:08]
Athens begins: Galley (10 turns)
Athens begins: Settler (14 turns)
Athens begins: Galley (10 turns)
Sparta begins: Settler (15 turns)

Turn 143/660 (355 BC) [01-Apr-2007 00:42:48]
Tech learned: Alphabet

Turn 144/660 (340 BC) [01-Apr-2007 00:43:21]
Research begun: Currency (15 Turns)
Athens grows: 4

Turn 145/660 (325 BC) [01-Apr-2007 00:44:11]
Tech learned: Archery
Research begun: Mysticism (2 Turns)
Merit Ptah (Great Scientist) born in Thermopylae

Turn 146/660 (310 BC) [01-Apr-2007 00:46:21]
Thermopylae finishes: Academy
Tech learned: Mysticism
Attitude Change: Julius Caesar(Rome) towards Alexander(Greece), from 'Cautious' to 'Pleased'

Turn 147/660 (295 BC) [01-Apr-2007 00:48:56]
Research begun: Currency (12 Turns)
Tribal village results: warrior
Attitude Change: Julius Caesar(Rome) towards Alexander(Greece), from 'Pleased' to 'Cautious'

Turn 148/660 (280 BC) [01-Apr-2007 00:50:31]
Sparta finishes: Settler
Confucianism founded in a distant land

Turn 149/660 (265 BC) [01-Apr-2007 00:52:23]
Athens finishes: Galley

Turn 150/660 (250 BC) [01-Apr-2007 00:53:13]
Athens begins: Axeman (6 turns)
Alexander(Greece) declares war on Julius Caesar(Rome)
Attitude Change: Julius Caesar(Rome) towards Alexander(Greece), from 'Cautious' to 'Annoyed'