WOTM 08: Mehmed IIhttp://www.civfanatics.com/images/civ4/warlords/mehmedii06.jpg

This time, its much easier.....


This game MUST be played in Warlords patch version 2.08. We will NOT accept any games played under any other patch versions, and you can't play it in vanilla (plain) Civilization4!

Further, it MUST be played using the latest version of HOF mod for Warlords. This is currently version 2.08.004 (http://hof.civfanatics.net/civ4/mods/HOF-2.08.004.exe) - a different version from last month!



Game settings:
Civilization: Ottoman (Leader: Mehmed II. Traits: Expansive & Organised)
Rivals: 6
Difficulty: Noble
Map: Continents
Mapsize: Standard, Cylindrical
Climate: Arid
Water level: high
Starting Era: Ancient
Speed: normal
Victory Conditions: All enabled
Other settings: Raging Barbarians


Mehmed II:
Mehmed II is Expansive and Organised; starting with Agriculture and The Wheel. Expansive gives +2 health / city, +50% production of workers, and double production speed of granaries & harbors. Organised has only 50% civic upkeep cost, and allows double production speed of lighthouses, factories & courthouses.


Unique unit: Janissary (Gunpowder)
The Janissary replaces the standard musketman. Whilst it retains the same unit stats (strength 9, cost 80, move 1), it is a bit more useful than the standard musketman (which is arguably obsoleted fairly quickly) in that it gains a +25% bonus against mounted units, archery units and melee units.

Unique building: Hammam (Mathematics, Masonry)
The Hammam replaces the aquaduct. The only difference between this and the standard aqueduct is that the hammam provides +2 happiness.

The starting screenshot is here (Click for larger version)
http://gotm.civfanatics.net/civ4games/images/wotm08small.jpg (http://gotm.civfanatics.net/civ4games/images/wotm08large.jpg)

Adventurer Class bonuses:
Start with a free workboat.


Challenger Class Equalizers:
Four forest plots to the south are replaced by jungle.
Start knowing no technologies.
All AI start with two bonus technologies.
All AI start with a worker.

Noble, eh?

Mehmed. Mehmed? I don't think I've ever played a game using Mehmed.
Anyone else have any idea what he's like?
Evidently the health cap is raised, and economy slightly easier for a growing empire. The UU doesn't seem particularly inspiring.

As for the start, lots of food, some gold but precious few hammers.
Is anyone else thinking about sprinting up to the hills for a better view?
Wasting a turn or two is not so awful at Noble level. If we were to find something more productive to the north, then we could probably fit another city in to the south, taking in the fish and perhaps sharing some of the floodplains.

This could be the first time, that I try the Challenger class.

Mehmed has always seemed interesting to me but I've yet to play a full game with him. I'm happy to see him come up. The Janissary is kind of interesting. It seems like there is a window where it'd be a good unit, since it has no hard counters and it has a bonus against everything that preceeds it. But if you kill everyone on the continent before getting Gunpowder will that really matter? And Chemistry and Grenadiers are still just around the corner... So it's still questionable if you'd want to use these guys or not.

The extra health from Expansive will certainly come in handy for those who settle in place. That's a lot of flood plains! I'd be reluctant to move my settler away from the fresh water and the forests, with their health bonuses, unless I see something that makes me want to settle away from the FP entirely.

Arid continents with high water and raging barbarians probably means it will be hard to find and defend many good city sites early.

Hmm, I couldn't be more pleased with the game settings...as the greatest challenge for me will be to complete this game in just a couple of days, as I'll be away on vacations, (1st stop is a few days in...Istambul!!!:D ) returning close to submission deadline.

I'll take contender, but I'll add a personal challenge: build Hagia Sophia in Istambul! :mischief: Shouldn't be that easy, as I plan to settle in place, cottage all those FP's, and get a really hammer-poor capitol.

This civ/leader traits/UB are very nice for the map and settings (I've never played on arid, btw). Even at Noble, getting 9 FP's in city radius is bad for your healthiness (does the city tile itself counts?). Expansive and hammam are a perfect answer to it.

I might start with a warrior/workboat/worker, researching fishing/mining/BW/pottery. The rest will depend on further scouting. Goal is fastest diplo - in game turns and real time!

hmm, this one looks interesting
settle in place, thanks to the exp. health bonus (otherwise some problems), straight to pottery (after fishing) to cottage like mad.
first build warrior, switch to WB right after fishing, then complete and worker.
downside: raging barbs, but we'll take care at this level (i hope) and normal speed, i like best epic.

One of my favorite leaders with one of my favorite UB's. Perhaps I will craw out from under this rock and give this one an "official" go.



Probably not, but it is tempting.

Sisiutil to the rescue! He is playing as Mehmed in the next All Leader's Challenge,so check out that thread for all the "Janissaries are lame unless you beeline Gunpowder" discussions.

kodos? where've you been?

I may divert a couple turns to check out those hills before settling...but then again, I may not also lol

I tend to love having tons of FPs in my capital, as it gives very fast commerce bonuses and I tend to use Bureaucracy more when it has more pronounced commercial effects than for the hammers.

In your opinion, what would compensate the loss of two turns in settling the 1st city (going up and downhill back to the starting location)? What would we have to find N of the hills in order to make it a better capital city?

At least 1 food resource and more grassland/plains hills.

The only reason to move N is to gain a more hammer oriented capital, IMO.

This sounds familiar. Wasn't WOTM01 on noble and arid, and supposedly with a high sea level too though the map didn't look like it was.

The main lesson I recall from WOTM01 is that there's lots of desert and as a result it's very hard to find decent city sites. Worth treasuring what sites you can find. That plus the noble difficulty means I'll probably take a few turns to explore before settling. I'll want to try and arrange things so I can get two cities out of those floodplains; settling in-place could scupper that.

just wondering, for challenger class, ai gets 2 bonus tech. Do all ai get 2 bonus random tech, or 2 of the same tech. Also, the 2 bonus techs must be in ancient era right (just imagine they get satellite and fusion)?

just wondering, for challenger class, ai gets 2 bonus tech. Do all ai get 2 bonus random tech, or 2 of the same tech. Also, the 2 bonus techs must be in ancient era right (just imagine they get satellite and fusion)?
They are all randomly chosen. They are ancient era techs.

hey drkodos, long time without your contribution, i hope you're back in the fold.

not settle in place means lost the seafood, and probably not gain an hill.
some fogbust:
2N of warrior is coast, but also with seafood, you can't have both in the FC.
8 Fp are half-balanced with 4 forests, i tink i'll never chop them.
i'll let a pair of Fp unworked, 2 watermills can be good, and a cottage in the plains, or a workshop.
Sure we'll need to find a good production site for our city 2.

seeing this is at raging barbarian, i wonder whether there will be an animal lurking behind the hills.... a wolf or a panther nearby may mean defeat in two turns!:(

Even on raging barbs, barbs will not show up for at least 10 turns...however, you will not get the safe zeon afterward during which animals will avoid your units or human barbs will ignore your cities.

Great Wall may be important here simply to allow players to concentrate on the AI, rather than the barbs...not to mention, it will make the barbs focus more on the AI...which on Noble should be fairly inept in dealing with them.

Great Wall may be important here simply to allow players to concentrate on the AI, rather than the barbs...not to mention, it will make the barbs focus more on the AI...which on Noble should be fairly inept in dealing with them.

There's a strategy, build the wall and wait for the Barbs to give you a Conquest victory :lol:

Worth treasuring what sites you can find. That plus the noble difficulty means I'll probably take a few turns to explore before settling. I'll want to try and arrange things so I can get two cities out of those floodplains; settling in-place could scupper that.

This seems like a very good idea with Noble difficulty. Get two cities out of the floodplains, reduce the unhealthiness in each city;

Also thinking about looking for a production city nearby that can be founded first??
- this would allow "working backwards" founding cities to our starting point to gain prime territory/city space,
- AND start building some military for the coming barbarian onslaught...

I plan on letting the barbs deal with out enemies, rather than me...I hope for stone nearby, but if not I can make do building the Great Wall the long way. In a test game, the AI didn't build the Great Wall until early AD years.

Oh...and I plan on settling in place, building a worker first and researching Pottery first...I'm gonna do a little known manuever known as the CS-Slingshot!

All those floodplains are calling out "Cottage Spam" to me. Settling 1W would allow a second city along the river, but the first priority after getting the capital will be finding a decent production site (hopefully with Copper... raging barbs sans Copper is very painful indeed).

This will not only be my first serious game of Warlords, but also my first GotM. I thank God that it's on Noble and not Immortal like last month's (though if I'd gotten back into the game and on these forums early enough I would have tried it). I'm newb enough as it is. :rolleyes:

One quick question: <EDITED out because I found the answer> :crazyeye:

Anyone care to post a test game? :)

Noble sounds easier than last wotm; wonder if there's a catch like us being on an isolated continent with thousands of barbs and tons of desert tiles with the other continent contains all the AI who are having a tech-sharing love fest? Surely the mods couldn't be that nasty :lol: :lol: .

I might try space again.
I can't decide if I should use the health bonus to counteract settling in place or if I should settle maybe 3 towns around this start area and grow especially large towns with some help from our bonus aquaducts. 3 towns around this much food could produce an army of workers in no time, not to mention being a great financial core.
Say I build the great wall, get an early engineer, and the pyramids are already built somewhere. Would anyone consider settling an engineer in a space race?

Wow -- this GOTM thing sounds really fun. Looking at the map it would seem that there is a shallow cove NNE, similar to the one SW of the starting position, which would indicate to me that perhaps there is a coastline N of those two hills. With this assumption I think I'll settle in place, go straight for pottery, and use my worker boat to scout for a second city, along with my warrior.

There also appears to be shoreline S of the river SE from starting position. I'll settle in place, see what it uncovers, but I think I'll be expanding east -- hopefully with some production near by. Stone or Marble would make life really easy :) Anyway -- This sounds like fun.

Noble is easier, but remember that it will also be easier for all the supernatural hyperpowered pro players as well. The barbarians will be the big extra factor in this one, plus having to deal with one of the more tricky unique units.

Could the tile 2 N of the warrior not be a (1-tile) lake? In that case settling on the plains hill will still be on fresh water. The plains hill will give 1 extra hammer always and even 1 more extra hammer when building a worker.

I think I will go for space race too. Will give Jove some competition :)

I'll try this, but probably at adventurer and I will likely get a nice red ambulence, but no one will say i did not try! That is if I can find this HOF mod.

I'll try this, but probably at adventurer and I will likely get a nice red ambulence, but no one will say i did not try! That is if I can find this HOF mod.

I think it is linked on the same page you get the saves, from the looks of previous GOTM files. Also, it seems that there is a different MOD per GOTM. I understand that it is to keep each GOTM free from tampering.

If I'm wrong -- sorry :lol:

only partially wrong...the required mod is simply the latest version of the HOF mod that has been released when the game is announced. The HOF people released a new version of the HOF mod in the past week or so, which means this game is in a different version than the previous one...I'll try to find my description of the different aspects of the HOF mod for those newer players.

i try a test game, and i find raging barbarians is pretty tough. I dont have any bronze nearby and by the time i just finish iron working, a barbarian axeman came to my border. At that time, I only have warriors....I end up losing 2 warriors before I can build my first axe. I probably got unlucky, but I also saw there was an ai city that got raze by barbarians. Also, no trouble of building pyramid, great wall and great library even w/o stone. But i did lose the oracle race.

Here is a group of posts, summarizing the various aspects of the HOF mod, the bonuses each confers, and possibly the first time(at least, the first time I've seen) that all parts of the mod are described in enough detail to be helpful.

There are 14 mods included in the current HOF mod (List of Credits (http://hof.civfanatics.net/civ4/mod.php#credits)):

Autolog (defaults to disabled)
End turn Text (defaults to enabled)
Exotic Foreign Advisor (defaults to disabled)
Modified Special Domestic Advisor (defaults to disabled)
Civ4lerts (defaults to disabled)
Specialist Stacker (defaults to disabled)
Clock Turn Text (defaults to disabled)
Reminder (defaults to disabled)
Mapfinder (defaults to disabled)
Auto start file creator (defaults to disabled)
Auto exit file creator (defaults to disabled)
Regenerate Map Hot-Key [ALT-G](defaults to disabled)
Enhanced Unit Icons Mod(defaults to disabled)
Field of View Mod(defaults to disabled)


1) Autolog
This keeps a record of all of the events in the game and is more comprehensive than the built in event log. It will record pretty much any event you can be notified of into a text file you can use to look back on for your own edification or for writing a spoiler after the fact.

This pic shows the various options that the autolog can record for you, and can wrap each record in either forum tags, html tags, or leave it as plain text in order to help you use it for writing spoilers.
http://img352.imageshack.us/img352/2850/hoftab1ic2.th.jpg (http://img352.imageshack.us/my.php?image=hoftab1ic2.jpg)


The above pic also shows the various situations for which the next feature can notify you.

2) Civ4lerts
The mod adds new in-game alerts. The running text on the left of the game screen will now tell you things like when a city is about to increase population or culture borders, when the city actually increases pop or borders, or when an AI has reached a certain level of money available for trade. This seems mostly intended to give you information that you might lead you to take some action (like assigning a new citizen or making a trade with an AI) without having to recheck things every turn.(Description credited to ShannonCT)

3) Specialist Stacker
This fixes the problem with the original game that you couldn't see how many specialists you had if you went beyond 5 or 6 of a particular type.(Description credited to ShannonCT)

4) Modified Domestic Advisor
The dometic advisor screen now shows an expansive overview of your empire. It allows you to sort your cities by any parameter it shows, including total GPP or GPP per turn. It also has a secondary screen showing every building your city can possibly build and eevery city your empire contains in a matrix format allowing you to see what buildings are built and/or building in each city, and how many of each building you currently have built/building...allowing you to see at a glance whether you have enough Unis(eg.) to build Oxford University, or any other building

The below pic also shows the various configuration settings for the Domestic Advisor, Foreign Advisor(post 2), and Enhanced Units Mod(post 3).
http://img352.imageshack.us/img352/2566/hoftab2pr1.th.jpg (http://img352.imageshack.us/my.php?image=hoftab2pr1.jpg)


5)Clock Turn Text
Simple enough, it gives allows you to show what turn it is in the game next to where you are shown what year it is. You can either see what turn it is right now, or see that and the total number of turns the game can span.

6) Exotic Foreign Advisor
This mod is, in my opinion, the single biggest, most helpful mod(from the player's point of view) included in the HOF Mod. Here is a comprehensive list of its screens compared to what you need to do without using the HOF mod to get the same information:

GLANCE: Tells you how everyone feels about each other in a simple numerical matrix.

non-HOF: You can find this out on the main foreign adv. screen, but then you have to hover over every leader, select a different leader, hover over all the leaders again, etc. and then you have to add together all the numbers you wrote down.

ACTIVE: Summarizes every active trade agreement you have with every other civ on one screen. It tells you nothing of the AI agreements with each other.

non-HOF: You can get the same info regardless

RESOURCES: Summarizes every resource you have available, along with how many of each you have. Then it shows in one window, the resources you are exporting to a country, what they will and won't export back to you, the gpt they are willing to give you, and all the resources you are currently importing and exporting for each civ and how much gpt they are giving you/you are giving them

non-HOF: You can figure this out, but it requires many different screens, and possibly even going into the diplo screen to check out all current deals for each AI. Basically it gives you on one screen a bunch of information you could get anyway, but won't ever get unless you are patient enough to go through several screens, using lots of math, most likely keeping Excel up in the background for your own spreadsheet.

INFO: Tells you the current civic status of each AI and each leader's favorite civics.

non-HOF: You can find the current civic status of an AI every time you go to the diplo screen, but it is tiny boxes at the top of the screen, making it hard to see or read unless you wait for the tooltip to come up. And then you've got to write everything down yourself if you want to remember it to compare with the other civs. Oh yeah, and look in the manual for favored civics, if you didn't know you could know that.

TECHNOLOGIES: It tells you what techs the AI wants from you, what they can currently research, what they have that you don't(all once they or you research Alphabet), and how much total gold they are willing to offer(once you or they have researched Currency).

However, this has limitations, subject to the data you can actually know. First, if you cannot research something, then even if the AI can, the advisor won't tell you so. For example, on GOTM10, I went for a cultural victory, and cut off research just before scientific method. At that point I was #2 in tech, and could see everything everyone could research. However, hundreds of years later, every civ showed that they could research the exact same 5 techs, and most had shown that for years. Additionally, I saw units for techs that it didn't show them as being able to research yet. Thus, it takes what they are able to research, by showing the postreqs for any techs they have that you have or could trade for. In other words, it only extrapolates from data you already have but wouldn't figure out unless you have memorized the tech chart perfectly.

non-HOF: You can see what you have that someone doesn't have, and what the AI have and will/won't give you, but to find out exactly the difference between you and a specific AI you must select them. Also, not every AI is visible in one screen, you must scroll to see them. Next, to discover what gold they have, you must enter the diplo screen and write everything down. Finally, to see what they can research(to determine your research path or how close to something like Liberalism they are), you must have absolute knowledge of the tech tree, write down everything they have that you don't and that they want from you, then look in the tech chart to see what things they have the prereqs for.

7) End Turn Text
A minor mod, the only one that defaults to enabled, it flashes the 'end your turn' text.

8) Auto start file creator
Automatically saves a 4000BC file of any game you start. This is useful if you want to be able to replay a fun game later on, and if you plan on competing in the Hall of Fame, you are required to submit a 4000BC save file of any submitted game. This mod is not used or applicable to the G/WOTM.

9) Auto exit file creator
Automatically saves your current game whenever you quit out of the game, as long as you use the in-game menu to quit. This is useful if you are forgetful about saving when quitting the game, or if you quit in disgust or anger...it allows you a current save to still be able to finish and submit the game later if you so desire.

10)Regenerate Map Hot-Key [ALT-G]
Enables a hotkey(Alt-G) that gives you the ability to regenerate a map using your current settings without having to use the in-game menu. It saves about 10 seconds and 2 clicks, so somewhat useful for personal games. However, it is not used or applicable to the G/WOTM.

11)Reminder
Allows you to add a reminder to the game using the hotkey [Alt-N]

The pic below shows all the minor mods listed in the above post(mods 7-11) and the Map Finder and Field of View mods, which will be covered in this post.

http://img352.imageshack.us/img352/5739/hoftab3nj5.th.jpg (http://img352.imageshack.us/my.php?image=hoftab3nj5.jpg)

12) Enhanced Unit Mod
This mod adds a small message to the tiny unit face in the lower middle of your screen(where it shows all the unit faces on the selected tile) telling you the current action of each unit on that tile, eg. goto, fortified, sleep, and it also highlights any units that have promotions available.

13) Field of View Mod
This mod changes how much of the map is visible on your screen. Best use is prolly if you have a monitor with high resolution...like with 1920×1200 resolution you can adjust it so you see twice as much of the map on screen as a 1024x768 monitor, while keeping the same detail on the units and tiles...
Or can zoom out all the way to take empire wide screenshots or zoom all the way in for detailed city or unit screenshots (like make one tile fill entire screen)(Description credited to Gyathaar)

14)Map Finder Mod
This mod enables you to regenerate as many maps as you specify, and will automatically save a start file for any map that matches the rules specified to the mod by you before hand. This mod is used extensively for Hall of Fame games, but is not applicable to the actual GOTM. However, it could be useful for creating test maps for a GOTM that, while not exact, can recreate fairly closely the starting position tiles, if not their places, while not requiring knowledge of WorldBuilder...An extensive description of how exactly to use it is below.

The most important thing to know about the Rule Builder is the all the rules WITHIN a group must be true for that group to trigger a save. ANY group being true will trigger a save.

http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/38674/DefaultRB.png

The Default rule
Save the map IF:

The map has: One or less Deserts AND 4 or more Forests AND 2 to 6 Hills AND one or less Jungles AND 2 or more Food Resources AND 4 or more rivers

OR

The map has: One or less Deserts AND 4 or more Forests AND 2 to 6 Hills AND one or less Jungles AND 2 or more Commerce Resources AND 4 or more rivers

OR

The map has: 2 or less Deserts AND 3 or more Forests AND 1 to 6 Hills AND 2or less Jungles AND one or more Quarry Resources AND 4 or more rivers

OR

The map has: 3 or less Deserts AND 3 or more Forests AND 2 to 6 Hills AND no Jungles AND 4 to 8 Floodplains AND 4 or more rivers


Terrain Groups:
Deserts Desert
Deserts Desert Hill

Forests Grassland Forest
Forests Grassland Hill Forest
Forests Plains Forest
Forests Plains Hill Forest
Forests Snow Forest
Forests Snow Hill Forest
Forests Tundra Forest
Forests Tundra Hill Forest

Grasslands Grassland
Grasslands Grassland Forest
Grasslands Grassland Hill
Grasslands Grassland Hill Forest
Grasslands Grassland Hill Jungle
Grasslands Grassland Jungle

Hills Desert Hill
Hills Grassland Hill
Hills Grassland Hill Forest
Hills Grassland Hill Jungle
Hills Plains Hill
Hills Plains Hill Forest
Hills Snow Hill
Hills Snow Hill Forest
Hills Tundra Hill
Hills Tundra Hill Forest

Ice Coastal Ice
Ice Ocean Ice

Jungles Grassland Hill Jungle
Jungles Grassland Jungle

Plains Land Plains
Plains Land Plains Forest
Plains Land Plains Hill
Plains Land Plains Hill Forest

Snow Land Snow
Snow Land Snow Forest
Snow Land Snow Hill
Snow Land Snow Hill Forest

Tundra Land Tundra
Tundra Land Tundra Forest
Tundra Land Tundra Hill
Tundra Land Tundra Hill Forest

Saltwater Coast
Saltwater Coastal Ice
Saltwater Ocean Ice
Saltwater Ocean

Bouns Groups:
Camp Resource Deer
Camp Resource Fur
Camp Resource Ivory

Farm Resource Corn
Farm Resource Rice
Farm Resource Wheat

Fishing Resource Clam
Fishing Resource Crab
Fishing Resource Fish

Commerce Resource Gems
Commerce Resource Gold
Commerce Resource Silver

Pasture Resource Cow
Pasture Resource Pig
Pasture Resource Sheep

Plantation Resource Banana
Plantation Resource Dye
Plantation Resource Incense
Plantation Resource Silk
Plantation Resource Spices
Plantation Resource Sugar

Quarry Resource Marble
Quarry Resource Stone

Happiness Resource Dye
Happiness Resource Fur
Happiness Resource Gems
Happiness Resource Gold
Happiness Resource Incense
Happiness Resource Ivory
Happiness Resource Silk
Happiness Resource Silver
Happiness Resource Spices
Happiness Resource Sugar

Health Resource Banana
Health Resource Clam
Health Resource Corn
Health Resource Cow
Health Resource Crab
Health Resource Deer
Health Resource Fish
Health Resource Pig
Health Resource Rice
Health Resource Sheep
Health Resource Wheat

Strategic Resource Aluminum
Strategic Resource Coal
Strategic Resource Copper
Strategic Resource Horse
Strategic Resource Iron
Strategic Resource Oil
Strategic Resource Uranium

Food Resource Clam
Food Resource Corn
Food Resource Cow
Food Resource Crab


The limits are just what the say. It will quit once it either regenerates or save that many times. The VB utility (Civ4_Map_Finder) is for viewing your saves and make rule file. They are created in the save path in the HOF options. The three paths are the connection between the VB Utility and the HOF Mod. Making sure they are right is necessary for it to work. (more below)

You have to create a rule file that will decribe what maps you want to save. The default rule (shown in the post above) is what it will be using unless you change it. The "Count" equals the number of regenerations. The "Saved" is the number of map that have been saved for you. If you let it run awhile it should find some using the default rule. ;)

There is a text box in the HOF Mod Options that has the full path and name of the rule file.

Test Range is the range in tiles from the start position (settler) that will the checked. 1 would check the 8 surrrounding tiles, 2 would check the "fat cross" range, etc. I like to use 3 as I know I can usually move the settle one tile and still settle on the first turn.

This is the VB Utility attempting to help you with the HOF Mod options. It will set the paths and the rule file in the options for you. What version are you using? (Try downloading 1.5. It say beta but I pretty sure it good.) It should be a yes/no question. If you answer yes it should only appear again if you install a new version of the mod. There is also a check box in the Rule Builder screen that tells the VB utility to change the rule file to the one being saved in the HOF Options.
(Entire Description credited to Denniz)

It is worth noting that while the HOF mod includes this section for dealing with the Map Finder Mod, the Map Finder itself is not actually included with the HOF Mod and must be downloaded separately.

I think that about does it for the HOF Mod, for all our newcomers and for anyone who's been around for awhile and didn't know all this stuff, hopefully this helps you understand what it does and how it can help your game.

Finally, since questions about the HOF mod seem to come up every G/WOTM, if any mod so desires, may I ask that these three posts be taken out of this thread, made into their own and stickied? The posts can easily be edited to keep up to date with any future changes and will hopefully help more people play the G/WOTMs since they'll be able to find this information much easier than before.

I don't know if anyone would find this useful (given that this is Noble difficulty and so nothing to be scared of ;) ) but I've been playing with WorldBuilder and have attached a practice game based on what we know of WOTM08.

This is my first attempt at this, so my apologies if I've made some total :smoke: and it doesn't work properly.

Also, I just couldn't get the river to run the way it does in the screenshot. Mine has the same effect, hopefully.

I'll try this, but probably at adventurer and I will likely get a nice red ambulence, but no one will say i did not try! That is if I can find this HOF mod.

There is a link to the HoF Mod in post #1 of this thread.;)

AgedOne - thanks for the test map!

These flood plains scream two things to me: whip, whip, whip and specialist economy. And the fish will help as well. So, it's Fishing, Mining and Bronze Working for me. I will then go Animal Husbandry and Horseback Riding. Hopefully, I have either axemen, chariots or horse archers when the barbarian horde advances.

I'll start with a worker (12 turns), then workboat (finish with the whip when possible) - overflow into a warrior. There is no need for granary; the city will grow faster than I can whip. An early settler is on the list as well, as is barracks or stables depending on the unit I'll use most.

The AI will typically start with building a warrior, so the scouting warrior can do some exploring before trying to steal a worker (and pillage!). This will weaken the AI considarably.

I noticed in the test game that if you build a city next to an animal, it will move out of the culture on the next turn. I've never tried before.

Animals showed up at 3600 BC and warriors at 2000 BC.

Victory condition? Conquest :lol:

So, it's the lower tech path (lightbulbing my way towards astronomy), with the exeption of code of laws. The pyramids will go very well with Caste System. I will be surprised if that wonder will be built before AD by the AI. Hopefully I will never know :)

Noble?! It'll be peace of cake :)

Not sure, given Agriculture in hand and flood plains available to farm, that it's best to research fishing and build a workboat in lieu of producing workers and other research, such as Animal Husbandry (again, noting that we have the Wheel in hand).

Not sure, given Agriculture in hand and flood plains available to farm, that it's best to research fishing and build a workboat in lieu of producing workers and other research, such as Animal Husbandry (again, noting that we have the Wheel in hand).

Something needs to be built while growing the city. It's either a work boat, a warrior or barracks. Going for a scout/archer is a little bit off the track for me. But it could be clever to start with A.H. That means that horses will be revealed before the worker is done. And then it's possible to choose between barracks and warrior (barracks can be skipped if main unit will be chariot/horse archer).

And then it's possible to choose between barracks and warrior (barracks can be skipped if main unit will be chariot/horse archer).

Why do you think the barracks is less important if you're building chariots or horse archers?

Why do you think the barracks is less important if you're building chariots or horse archers?

Chariots can kill barbarian warriors even without promotions. And horse archers can kill barbarian archers as well unpromoted. I'm also less reliant on mounted units to survive, since other mounted units can quickly come to aid. But perhaps it was poorly phrased by me. I think it can be delayed (barracks are better in all aspects compared to stables, yes?)

It's about timing as well. My reasoning goes like this:

If I can build early chariots, barracks are good but not essential. Unpromoted chariots can still beat barbarian warriors.

If horses are not available, I need to wait for BW to find out if there is copper in the vicinity. If there isn't, I'm either stuck with warriors or have tech to archery. To reduce the risk of getting into trouble along this path, I want barrracks (or rather - I want promoted warriors).

I would prefer if I could delay the barracks, and I can do that if I've got horses nearby. Does that make sense? :confused:

Sadly we don't know if horses are nearby, so it's trial & error or you have a plan B.

At this difficulty the designer has achieved perfection not if there... ähm I mean they will put in some handicap.

I'm going to go straight for pottery in this one! If I can get all the desert river plots w/cottages I'll be rich!

Sadly we don't know if horses are nearby, so it's trial & error or you have a plan B.Plan B could be to have the continent well scouted and a settler ready, if you really want to have mounted units. Then you need either the roads or sailing.

With arid continents and normal speed, the mounteds provide pluses: double movement is particularly useful on flatlands (obviously); barbs have less terrain to provide cover, mounteds don't get defense bonuses anyway; with barracks and stables, the movement promotion is a realistic goal.

Sometimes the extra time to connect to a more distant source is well worth it.

AgedOne - thanks for the test map!

These flood plains scream two things to me: whip, whip, whip and specialist economy. And the fish will help as well. So, it's Fishing, Mining and Bronze Working for me. I will then go Animal Husbandry and Horseback Riding. Hopefully, I have either axemen, chariots or horse archers when the barbarian horde advances.

I'll start with a worker (12 turns), then workboat (finish with the whip when possible) - overflow into a warrior. There is no need for granary; the city will grow faster than I can whip. An early settler is on the list as well, as is barracks or stables depending on the unit I'll use most.

The AI will typically start with building a warrior, so the scouting warrior can do some exploring before trying to steal a worker (and pillage!). This will weaken the AI considarably.

I noticed in the test game that if you build a city next to an animal, it will move out of the culture on the next turn. I've never tried before.

Animals showed up at 3600 BC and warriors at 2000 BC.

Victory condition? Conquest :lol:

So, it's the lower tech path (lightbulbing my way towards astronomy), with the exeption of code of laws. The pyramids will go very well with Caste System. I will be surprised if that wonder will be built before AD by the AI. Hopefully I will never know :)

I'm thinking of skip Alphabet if I'm stuck on the small island with 1 or 2 AIs which is usually the case. If on the small island, the resource could be limited for things like marble and stone which would be an extra burden for wonders. would you get CS and Philosophy and will you lightbulb paper before astronomy?

I'm thinking of skip Alphabet if I'm stuck on the small island with 1 or 2 AIs which is usually the case. If on the small island, the resource could be limited for things like marble and stone which would be an extra burden for wonders. would you get CS and Philosophy and will you lightbulb paper before astronomy?

it's continent, so at least you know you're not isolated

Raging barbs = great wall in my agenda.
I was thinking of moving inland, so that the capital's culture fogbusts a bit more. I was also looking at those hills to the east...

I'm thinking of skip Alphabet if I'm stuck on the small island with 1 or 2 AIs which is usually the case. If on the small island, the resource could be limited for things like marble and stone which would be an extra burden for wonders. would you get CS and Philosophy and will you lightbulb paper before astronomy?

Amao, I can't comment on your post since I've started the game - sorry :(

I'll answer in the first spoiler thread instead.

I'm thinking of skip Alphabet if I'm stuck on the small island with 1 or 2 AIs which is usually the case. If on the small island, the resource could be limited for things like marble and stone which would be an extra burden for wonders. would you get CS and Philosophy and will you lightbulb paper before astronomy?KInd of depends on when you want to land on the other continent. If you playing for conquest or domination, you probably want to get to Astro asap and CFR showed how to do that in the SGOTM2: you create about 3 GS's and use them to lightbulb Optics and Astro. So you have to not get Meditation and not CS...

Another good idea is to build the Great Wall as cabert said, which of course protects you against the raging barbs but also let's you build a GE for lightbulbing Machinery. Then you'll get to Astro very early. (If you build the Oracle, you can free-tech Metal Casting, build a forge in your GW city and get the GE even faster). The problem with the Oracle is that it might pop you a GA, and make it harder to get your 3 GS's early on.

Oracle actually pops you a GP, not a GA ;)

Is the Great Person tech preferences the same for warlords as it was in vanilla?

Is the Great Person tech preferences the same for warlords as it was in vanilla?

Almost the same. The one difference is that masonry has moved up the GP preferences. In Warlords, masonry is ahead of civil service for prophets, which means you can't use the vanilla trick of avoiding researching masonry in order to have the GP slingshot CS for you.

Amao, I can't comment on your post since I've started the game - sorry :(

I'll answer in the first spoiler thread instead.

I can't read that spoiler until i play to AD. :(

Oracle actually pops you a GP, not a GA ;)
Right, my bad, thanks for catching it.

Is the Great Person tech preferences the same for warlords as it was in vanilla?DaveMcW's thread covers both of them all in one:

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=140952

it seems most people are gearing up for quick access to possible military resources (i.e. horses, bronze) and rapid manufacture of units, is this because of the 'raging barbies', or a general conquest strategy? would it be viable on this map to research mining>BW>masonry then chop rush the three forests to hurry the great wall wonder. while building warrior>worker>settler. or would the chopping of forests cripple early expansion or defensive military production due to lack of hammers? obviously answers depend on what other terrain/resources are lurking in the mists :) i've never played with raging barbies :confused:

it seems most people are gearing up for quick access to possible military resources (i.e. horses, bronze) and rapid manufacture of units, is this because of the 'raging barbies', or a general conquest strategy?


I think it's largely because of the raging barbs. On a continents map, it's unlikely that a quick (pre-astronomy) conquest or domination is possible.


would it be viable on this map to research mining>BW>masonry then chop rush the three forests to hurry the great wall wonder. while building warrior>worker>settler. or would the chopping of forests cripple early expansion or defensive military production due to lack of hammers? obviously answers depend on what other terrain/resources are lurking in the mists :) i've never played with raging barbies :confused:

It's viable, though bear in mind that chopping 3 forests will give you barely 1/4 of the hammers you need to build the great wall, so it won't speed it that much. If you're going to do that, you might want to save the chopping until you're 3/4 of the way through building it, to maximise use of the forests :)

And you probably do need to leave yourself some hammers for military expansion, though that doesn't necessarily have to be in the capital.

Smack dab in the middle of exams, but these settings seem doable for a nice study break. With expansion trait are you able to have more cities with less cost to your economy? I've nevered figure out the transition from civ3 to civ 4 based on the optimal number of cities.
Mehmed II seems to scream fast expansion to me, whats a good way to monitor my expansion so I don't criple my economy?

Expansive helps with the health cap and with civics costs. I'm not sure it helps with city maintenance, which means the answer varies quite a bit...I wouldn't get more than 4-6 cities before 500AD unless I somehow had a really good economy.

The best way to monitor your expansion is your research rate...you shouldn't have any trouble researching pretty much any ancient age tech in less than 15-20 turns or you've expanded too fast.

Does anyone know how raging barbs on noble compares to standard barbs on monarch?

No expansive doesn't help with maintenance.
BtW, it should be hard to get to the point of no return by building cities, especially here.

Expansive is a very useful trait on arid maps. A lot of the rivers have flood plains, effectively canceling out the fresh water bonus and otherwise health tends to be an issue. The number of useful city sites are often farther apart, at least around desert (and there's always lots of desert), so organized is solid with the reduced civic costs and build time on courthouses. Coastal sites are often decent, too, so the lighthouse bonus is nice. Mehmed seems like a stronger leader than normal on an arid map, and the hammam (or however you spell that thingy) should only add to that.

it seems most people are gearing up for quick access to possible military resources (i.e. horses, bronze) and rapid manufacture of units, is this because of the 'raging barbies', or a general conquest strategy? either and/or both, depends on the player would it be viable on this map to research mining>BW>masonry then chop rush the three forests to hurry the great wall wonder. while building warrior>worker>settler. or would the chopping of forests cripple early expansion or defensive military production due to lack of hammers? obviously answers depend on what other terrain/resources are lurking in the mists :) i've never played with raging barbies :confused:The GW is great against raging barbs--you get to just ignore them except when sending out settlers. On the other hand, if you're going for conquest, it's nice for an AI on the other continent to have the GW because far fewer of his archers/longbows will have triple-city-defense promotions.

You might consider pottery with half-priced granaries and cottages instead of farms. With BW, that gives you plenty of whipped hammers for your settlers, and plenty of cash for your rapid expansion. Build a city just for the GW at a location with forest and some hammers, if possible. Send 1-2 of your cheap wkrs their to get the GW done asap. That strategy can work if you're able to get your wkrs and settlers out really fast. Or build 1 settler to spam more settlers and use your capital for the GW.

The only thing I don't like about the map is that it's arid!

The noble difficluty and UU say only one to me: Maximize research to get gunpowder before anyone else has it. Then crush their retarded archery/mounted units.

What about settling 1 NW (still turn one too)?
That site is still coastal, keeps the fish and 5 FP in the fat cross, and gets both hills in there too?

This also leaves room for a second city site making use of the remaining FPs.

What about settling 1 NW (still turn one too)?
That site is still coastal, keeps the fish and 5 FP in the fat cross, and gets both hills in there too?

This also leaves room for a second city site making use of the remaining FPs.

It would depend if you want to have less hammers within the Cap. It appears the tiles south of the forests are coast. I have a feeling we are on a peninsula or a island near the main continent. Remind me of a Civ3 Gotm I read about. I will know in the morning.

What about settling 1 NW (still turn one too)?
That site is still coastal, keeps the fish and 5 FP in the fat cross, and gets both hills in there too?

This also leaves room for a second city site making use of the remaining FPs.Depends on how long you're planning to play. You could also go 1 E and have 10 towns in your city!!! Mega-commerce.

For an early conquest, your idea might be good, to get two early cities with plenty of gold, financing fast research to Astro. Both cities could afford 2 scientists (for the GS's) and 3-5 cottages. One more city with 2 scientists and you can lightbulb Optics and Astro.

I'll need to decide before I get too far into playing whether I'm gonna be going for a military or peaceful win. Either way, I'm heading for early Astro and likely settling in place...I guess it may depend on how well I do on my last game for the Minor Gauntlet I'm finishing right now :)

Depends on how long you're planning to play. You could also go 1 E and have 10 towns in your city!!! Mega-commerce.
Imagin that w/ universal sufferage!(+1 in towns) Super hammer, gold and science city!

My favorite civ, a glorious start location, and the difficulty I am most used to - count me in! :D I will start this game with the objective of spamming cities as quickly as possible, but I will almost certainly digress to the urge of making wonders instead of cities and undermining my strategy. But we will see.

Imagin that w/ universal sufferage!(+1 in towns) Super hammer, gold and science city!

You're going play till US?:) :) :)

You're going play till US?:) :) :)

Somebody has to get the awards for time and spaceship victories.

Somebody has to get the awards for time and spaceship victories.

Strictly speaking, you don't need universal suffrage to build a spaceship ;)

You're going play till US?:) :) :)Or build the Pyramids...

Or build the Pyramids...

You're going play till Pyramids? :lol: :lol: :lol:

You're going play till Pyramids? :lol: :lol: :lol:

Now that is funny.:lol: I on the other hand hope to go till the end..........of me or the others.......:crazyeye:

You're going play till US?

Yes, I am confident that I can survive until Universal Suffrage on this level of difficulty.

You're going play till Pyramids? :lol: :lol: :lol:Show-off...;)

Doesn't take long to lose if you're going for the wooden spoon ;) .