Settings:

Victory Condition: Space Race (though all victory conditions must be enabled)
Difficulty: Warlord
Starting Era: Ancient
Map Size: Small
Map Type: Archipelago
Speed: Normal
Civ: Any
Opponents: Any
Version: 1.61.011 or 2.08.004
Date: 12th to 24th April 2007
The earliest finish date wins, with score as a tiebreaker.
See G-Minor 17 (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=216913) for details.

space race on warlord eh?

I might use this game as my first submissions into the HOF :)

quick question from a HOF noob lol

I assume that this is vanilla and warlords, since it does not specify...is this true? If not...which one is this for? :)

quick question from a HOF noob lol

I assume that this is vanilla and warlords, since it does not specify...is this true? If not...which one is this for? :)

This entry tells you all:


Version: 1.61.011 or 2.08.004

Read this as: Either Vanilla 1.61 with the newest HOF-Mod or Warlords 2.08 with the newest HOF-Mod

oh..duh, wonder how I missed that :blush: :wallbash: :hammer2:

Thrallia you must have missed it because your brain was fried after trying to read another one of my turn reports in SGOTM. :crazyeye:

This seems more interesting (and completable;) ) than major-10 was. I think for this major Eli is the optimal leader. In this map we need as much trade routes as possible, building G Lighthouse seems easy. In this map not to difficult making a contact with the others if you choose low water and archipelago land mass.

The beginning will be critical. How big land do you have, what do you find in the villages predestinates your possibilities of developing.

Maybe for G-minor it's a bit hard, but all in all our goal is easy, even if we had to solve it as soon as possible.

How would the winner be determined? One for vanilla and one for warlords? Or only one winner?

Small size, normal speed, I might just try this one (I haven't submitted anything for months after becoming QM :blush:)

How would the winner be determined? One for vanilla and one for warlords? Or only one winner?
One winner.

Nice one, i think i'll try Archi/SC, it better fits with a medium size empire needed to fund the research.
Leader: financial for sure, undecided for the 2nd trait: Lizzy can be the best, but Mansa or Qin (vanilla) are interesting too.
GLH not optional, nor pyramids, nor GL... stone and marble have to be at hand.

at this level, you can still pop some settler from the GHs, or workers at best?

I might use this game as my first submissions into the HOF :)

Careful... I tried that with G Major 10 and got my arse handed to me...:spank:

you can pop settlers from huts at this level. I have gotten two settlers so far on this gauntlet. It's a rather relaxing gauntlet (like 2 hours for a game?) - just fill the world with peacemongers and you don't need any troops in your cities. I haven't used mapfinder to get better maps yet, so there's definitely room for improvement but my first run was 1874 AD. I messed up my tech tree horribly that game, as I was unsure how far the AI will tech on its own. Unless you start gifting advanced tech, don't expect the AI to reach rocketry on its own. The most advanced civ was around combustion/industrialism, but the most backwards asked me for replaceable parts at the end of the game.

I'm also not sure that mapfinder will actually help too much in this game, as the starting continent is more important than the starting city itself. I was definitely production limited towards the end (even though I built the elevator and labs everywhere).

i already finish my game, but not very satisfy with the result. Can I play another with a different map and post the best result?

i already finish my game, but not very satisfy with the result. Can I play another with a different map and post the best result?

With gauntlet games you can play and post as many games as you are able to play. The main thing you need to keep in mind is that you cannot play more than once with the same map. Create a new map each game with the settings required for the gauntlet and play until your hearts content.

Just a suggestion, but I'd submit every game that fulfills the requirements, no matter how bad.

Just a short notice:
You can look at the differences in difficulty by opening your CIV4HandicapInfo.xml
It is in the folder ...\Sid Meier's Civilization 4\Warlords\Assets\XML\GameInfo
for Warlords, vanilla is similar.
Looking up the chance for a settler should lead to 1/20=5% on warlords difficulty.

Do settings not specified (i.e. no barbs) have to remain standard, or can we chose are own setting? (obviously assuming the setting we chose is HoF acceptable)

Do settings not specified (i.e. no barbs) have to remain standard, or can we chose are own setting? (obviously assuming the setting we chose is HoF acceptable)

You can choose any barb setting you want.

I have started the game too. My only target is, to solve the given task. The highscore is from secondary importance for me.
The first sixty turns were easy... I have enough ressources and I am trying to build a scientific society. But I don't know, whether the choice of my civ and my leader are fitting.
I am playing the Germans and Bismarck.

My first shot, I took a random leader :D Ended up with Alex...good for a specialist economy, but I don't know that I'll have a very good victory date if I continue the game...I only built 4 cottages before 1400AD and don't am pretty sure my opponents were ill-suited for this game(ragnar and hannibal are present)

Considering that the gauntlets are all I need to become quattromaster I decided to give this one a go...

I took the Inca. No settlers from huts, I went to war somewhere along the line (just because Washington was pissing me off :mad: ), and I had a tough time obtaining aluminum.
So I am sure quite a few of you can beat my 1840 AD launch...

First (and probably only try): 1837 launch. I decided to go with Ragnar. My date will most assuredly be handily beaten. I got my secondary cities up way too late. Interestingly, Mansa Musa stayed with me in tech all the way up to about artillery. He then took an unexplained fall off in GNP, but it was still helpful (and unexpected) to be able to have a trading partner that far.

First try - 1840. No settlers from huts except one quite late. No stone :( which was really not useful. But a beautiful map otherwise - large islands and lots of good resources, so I played to the end. I'll have another try I think.

I played one as Augustus...won in around 1910.

I started 3 tiles away from Izzy...which meant she had to go, of course...she founded Buddhism, Hinduism, and Judaism before I killed her off with my Praetorians. I then went and killed off Huayna because he woulda backstabbed me eventually anyway. I left Alex and Cyrus alone because they were too far away to bother with, and because I had hopes that they might possibly make an impact on my tech speed. They didn't, as they didn't even research Education until I could research Industrialism(which I then took with Liberalism, completely researched in 1 turn)

At the end of the game, thanks to my massive cottages, and thanks to Representation, Mercantilism, and the Statue of Liberty, I was researching at nearly 2k beakers per turn at 90% while making +15 gpt.

Unfortunately, the biggest time contraint on my space races is still building the Apollo Program...it took me more time to build the Program than to collectively finish off all the techs and build every single space ship part.

Anyone have any tips for building the Apollo Program in less than 30-40 turns?(I coulda done it faster, but my best two production cities were too far N and S)

I think opponents are useful if you want to have trade routes, whar's more you should give some techs to the others if you want them to teach a new one.

Currency and economics are creates new trade routes and the effect is bigger if not just you, but all other nations has 3/city.

Nothing from huts

1842 with eli (it can be easily beaten)


Who has godd submissions 1700 or better (16xx)?

what land setting are you using? Archipelago, Tiny Islands or Snaky Continents?

what land setting are you using? Archipelago, Tiny Islands or Snaky Continents?

I used Archipelago, and was able to get three moderately good production cities (Well two true good ones, and then bureaucracy made my capitol good).

Well my first effort landed in a 1812AD win. It was my first use of the new HOF mod and for some reason even though I checked save on first turn it didn't and I didn't check :mad: .

Nevermind I said, I made some really :smoke: moves that cost me at least 15 turns. I'll beat that easy.

Have played twice since and haven't come close :lol: 1864 and 1830. I'll try again I think.

Bah. I am building Apollo Program in 1960 AD (unintentionally historically accurate, actually!). I have left every AI intact to improve tech trading, I have all the useful wonders, I am running at 100% science, I am popping Great Scientists all over the place, I have won the race to every useful tech (Liberalism, Economics, etc) but I am still nowhere near the victory times that you guys have posted. What's the secret?

expand fast and setup a strong economy. I was originally thinking that the production of the apollo would be the bottleneck, but I think it's the research that you have to do to get to the modern ages. After about halfway through the game, the AI will just not be able to keep up with the tech pace to provide any useful trade material. My last attempt, I got liberalism around 600AD and never traded with the AI after that (except to convince them to adopt free market - a tech I gave them). I can research pretty well up to the 1400's or so, but then the research pace slows down around there. Maybe it was a mistake not to use the university of sankore with a state religion - I hardly built any monastaries as I was too busy churning out settlers and workers. Now that I think about it, monastary + temples + sankore/spiral minaret may have sped up the research more than just claiming more land and working more land...

Definately the research is the bottleneck. I try and get 100% research the whole game and use the best techers as opponents. Don't expect too much trading opportunities from them though.

I try and found 4-5 cities of my own and them hope an AI has set up shop next to me and take their cities as well.

Not sure about sankore/minaret as I'm usually flat out building the infrastructure (library, university, forge, harbour, observatory etc) without worrying about temples and monasteries. I try to build one monastery and spread that religion around my cities, mainly for pacifism effects though.

I have tried with Hannibal, Wang and Qin (vanilla) so far (Hannibal gave best result but was the best map), am also going to try Mansu (warlords) and Huayana (warlords).

The Inca in Warlords works best for me. Industrious and financial:) Also the temple of Artimous:confused: (sorry can't spell) great lighthouse combo in capital adds alot of gold. I attack early because war sucks at normal speed:(

My best launch so far is 1620 on snaky continents.

You have to use Archipelago maps.

Edit:

archipelago has different map types within it: archipelago, tiny islands, snaky continents.

Ops. You can see that I've not played such a map type before.

archipelago has different map types within it: archipelago, tiny islands, snaky continents.

Sneaky Continents is a variety of Archipelago map.

I agree that the challenge would be much more interesting if we were forced to use Archi/Archi and high seas, though. As it is, it is not very different from a Continents map.

I had a rather strange map, or at least I had never seen one like this before on Archipelago. I was Roosevelt with settings of Archi/Archi and low seas. I had used mapfinder and picked one that looked like a larger island, I didn't realize how large until I bumped into Liz and Louis on the same island. I was fortunate enough to find copper near my capital and started pumping out axemen and horse archers. I took out Liz first and kept her 2 best cities then went after Louis and kept his 2 best cities.

At this point I thought I was off to a great start, until I screwed it up. I concentrated on improving my 3 cities and the 4 I had captured. Only later did I realize that I had no iron, coal, or aluminum. While the cities and tech grew fairly fast it wasn't fast enough. So I have a last place finish in 1990.

In hindsight if I would have done some exploring and founded a few more cities I think I would have had a much sooner launch. And might have found aluminum. Of course Mao and Ghandi were very little help when it came to trading. My only claim to fame in this game is I did it without building any ships other than a few workboats.

Maybe I will try Ghandi tonight.

Tiny islands would be an interesting challenge, a true production bottleneck.

Getting any launch might be tricky

I think the easiest is archi map. Continents big enough but you still can reach other continents. I tried in snaky but the territory was too closed and with raging barbs setting they can easier born in big tundras.

Just submitted my third and best game to date - 1816 & I am in 4th place. I made some errors of course, but even so I'm not sure I could have shaved off many more turns with my strategy. A lot of it now is luck of the draw - I produced a couple too many engineers rather than scientists & the huts were pretty poor. I had to found a city a fairly long way off early to get stone, and another later to get copper, which was expensive in turns & maintenance, but coal & aluminium popped up conveniently.

I might have one more try ... wonder if someone is pre-1800 yet? :)

wonder if someone is pre-1800 yet? :)

just submitted a 1780 launch :)
pretty casual play, snaky continents which turned out to be a pangea...

Before 1800 is not a big deal, but before 1395 (this is the best result in HOF table). I checked and it was great plains anyway.

just a thought...does Industrial give a production boost on projects also?

just a thought...does Industrial give a production boost on projects also?
N o

Before 1800 is not a big deal, but before 1395 (this is the best result in HOF table). I checked and it was great plains anyway.

more important it was marathon and not normal speed...

more important it was marathon and not normal speed...

Correct. In fact under the conditions as stated for this gauntlet, the 1st place in the HoF table has a 1840 launch. Meaning more than likely whoever wins this gauntlet will hold the #1 spot for this table.

more important it was marathon and not normal speed...

1840-1395=445 years. I don't think this is just because the game speed.
See the HOF table that I could reach the 1st place on imm/sp race/huge and large maps, even if playing normal speed.

It can mean some advantage, but I think the difference is mainly coming from that better players usually play e slow speed is a big advantage in conquest and dom. victories.

it is correct that the difference is 445 years, but years do not mean that much in this context...

example: assume one would want to gain a SS victory once on quick speed, once on marathon... assume further you managed to win both times in 2000 in both cases there are 50 turns left, but in marathon you have already played a lot more turns up to this point and the fraction of remaing turns to already played turns is somewhat lower than for normal speed... those who tried g-major 10 know that 50 turns at quick speed for example are quite a long time to go, while at marathon speed one would speak of absolute end game...


by the way your finishing dates in immortal/huge/normal speed are awesome... so maybe i am completely wrong with the above statement... nevertheless i believe we will not see a 13xx launch...

it is correct that the difference is 445 years, but years do not mean that much in this context...

example: assume one would want to gain a SS victory once on quick speed, once on marathon... assume further you managed to win both times in 2000 in both cases there are 50 turns left, but in marathon you have already played a lot more turns up to this point and the fraction of remaing turns to already played turns is somewhat lower than for normal speed... those who tried g-major 10 know that 50 turns at quick speed for example are quite a long time to go, while at marathon speed one would speak of absolute end game...


by the way your finishing dates in immortal/huge/normal speed are awesome... so maybe i am completely wrong with the above statement... nevertheless i believe we will not see a 13xx launch...

I repeat myself that slow speeds gives you some advantage, the difference beetwen our theories is only how big is this advantage.

Anyway I experienced that oracle-CS solution can be reached much harder on immortal level if playing slower speeds, I don't know why.

Yes, but Kovacsflo you have to take account of the settings. People are not turning in scores anything approaching 13xx. So we are either all useless (which is possible I suppose :) ) or these settings set parameters that are less than ideal. Either way, I was just wondering whether anyone has a score faster than 1800? Anyone ??
OK, missed Ori's post :sleep: Anyone pre-1600? Kovacsflo?

Marathon is far superior for space race, especially at the low levels like Warlord.

The 1395 finish is mine. On marathon I run both my settler and scout until 3700. If you get lucky, it is a multiplying effect and soon you are running 4 settler 5 workers, and 3 scouts - often popping 2-3 huts per turn.

And on marathon you crush who you want when you want, and the only problem is the domination limit. Also with a huge empire movement costs (i.e. workers not working, but running) are just so high on normal speed.

The 1620 finish I entered in this gauntlet was a better played game I think (than the 1395 finish), and I got very lucky in my early battles.

People are not turning in scores anything approaching 13xx.

True, but recall G-Minor 15 (Diplo VC) that had around 50 players. It started off with dates in the 1800's and slowly began getting lower and lower. By the end of the gauntlet we were receiving BC dates. It'll take a while, but players will start noticing little things that will shave turns off and we'll start seeing better dates.

or these settings set parameters that are less than ideal.

Archi is an interesting setting and I hope I can have time to give it a shot. I'm really interested myself in these settings (and increasing my Minor QScore ;) ).

Aarfghhh ***?* So warmongering is the only way ... damn&blast that blows me away :lol: If I'm going to do it again ... time for another strategy change. And I'm *useless* at killing things. And not today :) Blast. And congrats beccnoa :)

just submitted a 1780 launch
pretty casual play

What? How can you "casually" launch before 1800? I just submitted a 2016 AD victory. I can't see how I could possibly have shaved over 200 years off that time. The AI researches so slowly at this level that you have to do most of the work yourself. Looks like I have one of the worst games so far. I will have to do something radically different to improve on that.

This Warlords level is, in some ways, harder than Prince and Monarch. Completely different tactics are required.

What? How can you "casually" launch before 1800?
:p
I think aggressive expansion is the key here. You cannot have too many cities - and since I don't like warfare I build a lot of cities early on, and never waged a single war. In the end I had 16+ cities. I did not pay any attention on micromanaging though (forgot to have cottages worked etc.), forgot civics changes or wonder builds (I was beaten to the Pyramids in 1350 AD :crazyeye:), so it was a pretty casual play...

Im with you Harbourboy, I also struggled to launch a space ship in 2006. I thought I was doing the right thing by building alot of cottages and in the end had about 10 cities, but my production was just so slow.

P.S. Harbourboy - Go the Chiefs

Launched in 1680AD with Vanilla Elizabeth. You don't have to be hostile necessarily. But you must expand rapidly. Goody huts provided 3 settlers by 1000BC, so a bit of luck was involved. By 1AD I had 12 cities and never even bothered to build a single courthouse. Maintenance costs in Warlord level are so low. My MM skills are a little rusty so in the end I lost a couple of turns. But it was nice to have 4 Golden Ages straight in last 28 turns I played. (9 GP and Taj Mahal).

I thought I would play my first Spaceship launch. Then I forgot to turn on the movies at the end…

1750AD Vanilla Elizabeth, casual game, won’t be submitted since I stopped working on the Oracle and pressed enter a number of times only to see when they would build it and then reload back.

No workers or settlers from huts. No war. Only 6 cities, 5 workers. Long game (8+ hours). No stone, no iron, but I got aluminum. Too early GAs.

4Wonders: Oracle (I first thought it was a bad idea, because of the prophets GPP, but I soon discovered that the best use for my GS was settling them, so GP are not so bad), GLIB (soon obsolete), Ironworks, TajMaj. I didn’t miss GLH, but I missed Pyramids: with so much food Representation is huge.

I should have built more cities. Workshops were huge at the end, when I had too much research and too little production, I had never built them before.

Lots of room for improvement. I was at a loss at the second half of the techtree, never had research advanced techs before. I will try again and submit, playing more seriously this time. I hope I can submit in time, this doesn’t feel like a “minor” at all. After that, I don’t think I will win a Space Launch ever again, it’s too long of a game.

I think I will finish my current game beetwen 1600-1750.

I have to wait a lot for a game what I expected, but finally I reached.
Marble (two in my capital) and 2 early settlers (3800bc and 1500 bc-last turn) are the most important, but having a capital what can be improved well can be a key as well.

In my earlier game I experienced that in such small maps with enough gold and buildings your capital can give you more than a half of science even having 10-12 cities in 500 - 1000 AD. It was still not enough, I realized that my city had resources to give a starting gold and hammer (fish, cow, rice, gold), but there were no grasslands or water tiles, and there were 3 deserts.

My new game my capital have 2 marbles, wheat, cow, horse, 5 water tiles and enough grassland. I hope this will be enough for a good result.
Other cities can be good as well since my staring island can have 8 cities (3 built yet 1500 bc), and several other can be built nearby.

I think marble is much more important that any other resources before 1AD. I don't mind I can't see any stone yet, soon I will have copper for colossus (what is a cheap wonder anyway) and that's enough for a while. Wonders needing stone can wait for 500-1000 AD.

I think marble is much more important that any other resources before 1AD. I don't mind I can't see any stone yet, soon I will have copper for colossus (what is a cheap wonder anyway) and that's enough for a while. Wonders needing stone can wait for 500-1000 AD.

Marble is key, if you are in Warlords build the Temple of Artemous in your capital ASAP and the G lighthouse there (or somewhere else) and a harbour, you'll get almoust 40 gold/turn from trade routes and once that is multiplied through capital bonus and sci bonuses it is well over 100 beakers/turn. I tech to obsolete the GL and T of Art as late as possible (after computers)

Good luck

And it helps to have more benefits from parthenon.

Anyway, I had to finish my game in 700 AD what I mentioned, because I was more than unlucky with GP's. I generated about 8 of them, the chance of getting a scientist was always about 50%, but I take none of them. I will have to pay more attention to this problem, however I hope I won't be so unlucky that I received 0 instead of 4!

In 700 AD, my capital still produced 55-60% of bulbs, so having an academy would mean + 15-20% bulb. Any other scientist are not so important.

I will try again sometime soon. Ghandi and I launched in the mid-1700s, not a very good result. The key like mentioned before, is fast expansion. Use Liberalism for something expensive. Alphabet is not so high of a priority unless you get a pangea like map; if it is indeed archipelago, the AIs wont know enough of each other to trade early techs. When I find a new map, I will probably try the Inca or Mansa.

Hm...well attempting to pay more attention to settling Great People, the Temple of Artemis, and about to test out the Spiral Minaret, Angkor Wat, and Academy of Sankore strat with an omnipresent religion(founded Hinduism)...I'm teching faster thus far than I've ever done before...in 1000AD, I've already researched Economics and I'm just about able to research Liberalism in a single turn, but am currently holding off on researching it.

What are the pros/cons of holding off on researching Liberalism as long as possible to get a more advanced free tech? Is it worthwhile?

Edit: I'm playing as Inca(Warlords) and expanded pretty fast...9 cities before 1AD. I've got one more city site I need to settle still and I'm running minimal military because I've converted every AI except Izzy to Hinduism, and I don't expect anyone to go Free Religion(thus making me immune from war declarations from anyone except Izzy, who is mutually hated by everyone and only has 3 cities thanks to an early stagnating war on her in which I parked a Quechua next to Madrid while everyone else expanded for 1000 years)

I suck. My second attempt at this and I have still managed to get to 2000 AD without launching my rocket. News flash: The Internet is useless at Warlords level...... Don't bother beelining to Fibre Optics like you might do at Monarch level. :(

to answer my own question...the only tech Liberalism appears to block completely if unresearched is Communism, which isn't needed for Space Race....so keep it unresearched as long as possible lol.

However, now I run into the difficulty of putting off Chemistry for a reasonable amount of time(obsoletes Temple of Artemis, but required to reach Rocketry!)

My final attempt for this Minor: 1842 Victory. I shaved almost a full century off my previous attempt, but several goofups in my late research path(thinking the Elevator was reached by Satellites, failing to research the 4 techs before Industrialism until after researching Fusion, failing to research the 4 techs before Robotics so I could use the GE from Fusion lol)

Basically, I lost a lot of time at the end...oh yeah, and I build the National Epic in Cuzco, forgetting I needed to build the Ironworks there...that also cost me a few turns during construction. On the plus side...I got about 20 Great People, all but 4(2 academies, 2 GEs rushing Elevator) of which were settled in Cuzco, giving me a surplus at 100% research the entire game and over 600 beakers/turn along with nearly 100 hammers/turn at the end. I also failed to build the Great Library early...I didn't build it until almost 500AD because I didn't prioritize Alpha, and didn't realize I hadn't built it yet until nearly 400AD.

My bottleneck was still producing the Apollo Program though...I built all my parts within 30 turns of finishing the Program and took 40 turns to build the Program(a shame...I researched fast enough to use Liberalism on Satellites before 1400AD too)

i tried a similar strat, but without choosing a religion, finishing in 1844... i think there have been four major problems in this game (apart from some dumb decisions)... firstly, the starting position was not really good (1 fish, 1 gold, 6 floodplains), secondly, the only thing wothwhile i got from huts was one worker, thirdly, i didn't get a GS until physics, and finally i didn't expand enough, i stagnated at 7 cities so at around physics techspeed was not as fast as before... production was almost no limiting factor in this game...

Marble is key, if you are in Warlords build the Temple of Artemous in your capital ASAP and the G lighthouse there (or somewhere else) and a harbour, you'll get almoust 40 gold/turn from trade routes and once that is multiplied through capital bonus and sci bonuses it is well over 100 beakers/turn. I tech to obsolete the GL and T of Art as late as possible (after computers)

Good luck


Yes marble is the key my best attemp is 1740 with inca.
How were you obsolate TOA after computers?

I had to obsolate it before Scienc M.

Hwo has the best date now? Is the les than 1700?

My savegame with the finishing date 1980 A.D. was excluded. Maybe I have accidentally reload a savegame.
Now, I will start a new game and I will play the whole night.
I hope, that you all wish me good luck.

1834, which is a record for me. I could have shaved a few turns off that if I'd better orgnasied the building of spaceship parts better but I'm still pretty happy with it.

I used the Temple of Artemis/Great Lighthouse combo and the biggest problem was, despite having the Great Library in my capital, all those GP and GM points meant that I didn't get a GS until Phsyics (although I then popped two after that). Running more scientists would have been the way to counter that problem.

I was fairly violent and becuase of the huge tech lead that Warlords dificulty allows was able to send Macemen running around with little fear of reprisals. Despite starting on a poxy little island big enough for three cities, I ended up killing off two rivals (including an iron free Augustus) and comfortably held the top spot all game.

The tech charge meant that once I got going I streaked ahead of the remaing two rivals and only traded with them for useless techs for the points. I used LIberalism to take Robotics and only then to speed along the building of the space elevator and because there wasn't anpther tech worth more. Both my rivals had neither Paper or Philosophy at that point!

All in all, a good challenge and, despite the low difficulty, a great way to hone my skills. Having spent the last few months bashing my head against a wall tryiong to move up difficulty levels and becoming very jaded about Civ, thsi has rekindled interest in the game for me. Didn't hurt that my first attempt also got me my League of Nations spot so just a G-Major and the top half of the Inferno to go!

Yes marble is the key my best attemp is 1740 with inca.
How were you obsolate TOA after computers?

I had to obsolate it before Scienc M.

Hwo has the best date now? Is the les than 1700?

I waited awhile to obsolete it too, unfortunately, that cost me a few turns...it gets obsoleted with Chemistry...and without Chemistry, you can't reach Rocketry or Industrialism.

However, I think I could have done much better than I did despite that setback...to demonstrate that...I went back and won a diplo victory around 1300AD...about 550 years before I usually am able to lol. My lategame is very horrible, as I generally have either lost or am going Diplo by the time I leave the Renaissance.

May I ask what are the basis on which you decide whether to build the Space Elevator or not?

1680AD launch by Elizabeth, Vanilla. 11 hours.
Sneaky continents.
War: the only AI in my continent had to die.
Huts:1worker,0settlers.
Cities:15. Only 6 by 1AD.
Trade: I didn't gift them techs so that they could research something useful.
Wonders: Pyramids-Oracle(CS)-GLIB-Oxford-IW-SE.
Very slow settling cities. Lost my whole army of 4 Swords against 2 Archers around 1AD. Built the SpaceElevator for no special reason. It didn't make much of a difference.

With the number of cities I had, production wasn't the bottleneck, in fact, most of my productive cities were idle. My research was nothing spectacular.
It took me ages to build Oxford, as late as 1080AD. :cry:

Tech pace: 180bpt 1AD. 600bpt 1000AD. 1700bpt 1500AD. 2700bpt 1680AD.

More experience, more thought and more than double number of cities made me save off only 14 turns! :confused: :confused: :confused:

My bottleneck is Science, given that I cannot rely on the AI to help me research anything. I am researching things at about 6-10 turns per tech. How do I ramp up to get to the massive 2700 bpt you are getting at 1680 AD? I'm not getting that at 1900 AD.

Submitted my non-brilliant first attempt, in a so-so map as Ramesses, 1892.
If i have time, i'll try with Lizzy.
Bad luck with GP, 3 GProphets (1 is OK for the shrine, but 3...)
Something to rethink in the late tech path, too.

May I ask what are the basis on which you decide whether to build the Space Elevator or not?

Doing my usual thing of answering a question regardless of whether it has been directed at me or not. For me it depends on my number and location of production cities and GE posibilities. If I have few production cities and no GE chance I'll probably not bother as it can tie up a city for a long time when it could actually just build parts. If I have plenty of cities and a GE coming up or to hand then I'll go for the soace elevator. Not sure if this is a sensible plan or not; somebody clever than me care to enlighten?

I generally build it because a +50% increase in parts being built everywhere is pretty handy, especially when I don't usually seem to be able to produce more than 1 or 2 good production cities.

In this game, I built it in 3 turns, thanks to popping a GE, using it to start the Elevator, and then using the GE from Fusion on the 3rd turn. I don't generally build it at all though unless I can rush it with either massive cash or a GE(or both) because it can take a long time to build(although again, it would have taken just 15 turns to build it without using any rushing at all thanks to my giant production in Cuzco.

@Harbourboy: I wasn't making anywhere near his last science levels, I think I was researching at about 1600 bpt from around 1300AD on...cause I was able to research Liberalism in a single turn(1500 beakers), but took anywhere from 3-6 turns on the very last technologies, depending on overflow.

I gifted my AIs Currency as soon as I could to give them extra trade routes(since I had too many trade routes as it was) But I just didn't seem to increase in research rate at all later on...I'm curious to know how Jesusin did it as well.

My final reserach rate was about 3000bpt. However, in 1420 it was only about 1000. Both times I looked at 100% science rather than a stable level (ie one where I was either breaking even or had a sustainable loss). The former wasn't too much different but the 1420 figure was post war and I was reduced to 60% for quite a while.

I'm not surre whether it is my building choices and strategy or reserach path that slows me down. In my commerce cities I build (roughly in order of priority) a grannary, library, university, lab, courthouse and any buldings needed to deal with happiness/health issues (this last category gets shifted up in importance as needed). In all my attemps so far I have tried to turn my capital into a science city and in addition to the above named buildings I have also built the Great Library, Oxford University and an Academy. In my last game I also built the Pyramids and switched to Representation. I also tried to run at least one scientist in each of my science cities although I never sure if this is better than simply allowing faster growth.

Any advice on this as a straegy would be greatly apprecited.

I forgot to add GPP info:
16farmed GP+3 free ones.
2Academies, 2 merchant missions, 1GA, 2GE used for production, the rest of them settled in capital but the 2 latest GS who lightbulbed.

Doing my usual thing of answering a question regardless of whether it has been directed at me or not. For me it depends on my number and location of production cities and GE posibilities. If I have few production cities and no GE chance I'll probably not bother as it can tie up a city for a long time when it could actually just build parts. If I have plenty of cities and a GE coming up or to hand then I'll go for the soace elevator. Not sure if this is a sensible plan or not; somebody clever than me care to enlighten?

The question was directed to everybody. Thank you for answering, synthboy. Quite a sensible answer. I tend to agree, since I had so many production cities it didn't matter if I tied up one of them.

@Thrallia: Thanks for your answer too. I don't see the +50% as crucial. Your main cities have a lot of multiplier already, forge, factory, power, lab, IronWorks, maybe bureaucracy... Another 50% on top of that doesn't make a big difference.


Now, as for the research pace:
@Harbourboy: the 2700bpt/1680AD figure is irrelevant. I was doing 1700bpt a few turns before, in 1500AD and I didn't research anything usefull from 1500AD on.
A few details so that you can compare with your game: half of research came from the capital at 1500AD. I was running Repre-Burea-Slavery(shouldn't I?)-FreeM(shouldn't I?)-Pacifism. Dozens of mature cottages and Statue of Liberty. Oh, and I give my figures when in 100% research, although I had to run 80% sometimes.

In fact I consider that my research rate was so-so. The important figure to compare with is 1AD. My figure is quite unimpresive, isn't it?

The +50% in my capital wasn't crucial, but it was helpful in all my other cities...I had so much of the research for the parts done when I finished the Apollo Program, that I farmed out the parts to 8 different cities, and my super production capital(and my Ironworks city) between the two of them only accounted for 5 of my parts(albeit, two of them were the Life Support and the Engine, the two most important parts)

How long does it generally take you to build the apollo program?

I completely forgot about Pacifism...I ran Org. Religion the entire game for the infrastructure bonus. I settled all but 5 of my Great People in Cuzco(2 GE for Elevator, 2 GS for Academies, 1 Shrine), and half of my research was coming out of my capital the entire game.

I know your 1500 and 1680 research rate are both higher than mine...but I'm pretty sure I had more beakers per turn than you in both 1AD and in 1000AD(or at least, I assume so, I researched Economics in 3 turns, finishing in 1000AD).
I was in 100% research mode from about 700AD onward thanks to my Hindu shrine and all the prophets and Merchants I added to my capital...is that my problem? Should I focus on making sure I get more scientists rather than being willing to take merchants for extra cash and prophets/engineers for extra hammers? I avoided artists like crazy because they added nothing of value to my city.

How long does it generally take you to build the apollo program?

My first two attempts it took me about 50 turns. My third, and best, attempt I managed to capture a city that had four food resources, several grassland tiles and three hills. By mining/lumermilling the hills, workshopping/farming the grasslands (mostly the former, a couple of the latter just to get the balance right) and building the Ironworks and running max engineers I had a monster production city that produced the Apollo Project in about 25 turns. All those engineers also helped pop an engineer for the Space Elevator, which was nice.

However, whilst this thread wanders around GPP, I did wodner whether I would have been better setting that city up as a GP farm. I'm not sure how many GPs I popped by the end of the game but I don't think it was any where as near as jesusin. GS especially only turned up at the end which I think might have been one problem. I'm also never sure at what point I should use GS to lightbulb techs rather than build academies. Anyboby got an easy formula that works?

I avoided artists like crazy because they added nothing of value to my city.

I popped one and saved it until I was producing spaceship parts in multuiple cities. With the help of the Taj Mahal, GMs and GPs I was able to run three golden ages together and speed through the final tech/pieces. Good idea/bad idea? Now jesusin mentions trade missions I wonder if that would not have been a better way in order to keep science running at 100% for the whole game.

On the GP problem (ie, nobody really wants them other than to get a shrine) I was thinking that it might have been better not to have built the Hindu one in my capital despite the wide spread of the religion and instead have chosen another holy city (at this level it's easy to catch a few religions almost by accident) and spread that like crazy. A Wall Street/Shrine combo in that city will still pull in the cash but won't unbalnce the GP pool.

On GM, in some my games, becuase I was producing so many (Temple of Artemis/Great Lighthouse/Colossus combo) I did try settling them to help with my production cities. Normally my production cities would rely on post-Biology farmed grassland to run engineer specialists/mined hills. On an Archipelago map that becomes a lot harder (fresh water issues as much as anything) so in order to get the extra food to run the high production tiles/specialists I settled some. It did work but wether it was worth it I'm not sure.

Anyway, enough now. Red wine always makes me very loquacious.

Submitted a 2nd attempt, 1844 Lizzy.
Now i try Fred, then Gandhi.
As Lizzy i built the Apollo in 16 turns (Ironworks+factory+3GD).
I'll stop to go at war with chariots, too much bad RNG.
Eventually i'll wait for maces

I built Apollo in 15 or 21 turns, I can't remember. I had already built IW, a factory and power in the capital when I started. And I had Aluminium 1 turn later.

However, whilst this thread wanders around GPP, I did wodner whether I would have been better setting that city up as a GP farm. I'm not sure how many GPs I popped by the end of the game but I don't think it was any where as near as jesusin. GS especially only turned up at the end which I think might have been one problem. I'm also never sure at what point I should use GS to lightbulb techs rather than build academies. Anyboby got an easy formula that works?.

I didn't built a shrine. It would have given some 10gpt, I thought it was better 2hpt+5gpt+3bpt (representation).

Most of my GPeople were GS. My formula is:
If settled, they would give some 30bpt (9 base, Oxford, Library, Academy, etc...) not to speak of the hammer. If used as Academy in another city they would have given 50% of 90% of my base commerce plus beakers from specialists... which meant it wasn't worth it but in another single city. Late game, using them to lightbulb a useful tech, they would give some 1800b or more. If the game was going to be over in less than 60 turns, then it was better to lightbulb. If in more, it was better to settle.

Anyway, don't rely on my opinions, you should take into account that I talk too much, but it is only my second space victory...

well, it turns out I was just behind you in bpt at 1000AD, Jesusin...most likely thanks to your earlier academy, and the fact you popped mostly scientists. I didn't get my academy until nearly 1300AD because I popped so many GPs and GMs!!

Since I've finished WOTM8, I may make one last go at this minor, hoping to use what I've learned to improve my time again.

Who has the best date to beat my is 1715

Tried running the same settings on Marathon
I was going to finish 1440ish (not better than G Plain 1395 date so I didn't bother to finish)

Marathon is faster
but G Plains trumps Arch

My best date was 1620
It was a good map, more like a fat contenient:)

Tried running the same settings on Marathon

Just to clarify, by playing and submitting a game on marathon, or any setting other than described, your game would not be valid for this gauntlet. The game could still be accepted under the normal terms of HoF, but not for G-Minor 17.

Who has the best date to beat my is 1715

Jesusin has a 1680 date.

Failed attempts, probably Lizzy is the best choice...
Map and luck with GHs play a role, of course.
Anyway, i'd like to know how you guys managed to keep 100% science before 1000 AD :confused:
I never use whipping (not even revolt to slavery) perhaps is this the mistake?
So, i keep my non-brilliant 1842 :cry:

I had three attempts. I did every thing I could think of and all my spaceships were launched post 2000 AD. I am so used to tech trading as a way of researching that I was completely unable to research on my own at this low level quickly enough to launch at the early dates you guys have done.

I never managed to even start Apollo Program until after 1900, so my problem was not in the end game, but somewhere in the early game.

Hello !
Does somebody know until when is it possible to submit games for this gauntlet?
Superslug do you accept submissions tomorrow? (I know that his gauntlet will finish theoritically today, but recently all the gaubnlets were started later and were prolonged)
I would really appriciate a fast answer because than I am going to make a try during thsi evening.
Br. Bozso

Hello !
Does somebody know until when is it possible to submit games for this gauntlet?


Submissions are typically accepted up until the update. The update is scheduled for the 25th, but occaisionally happens a little bit later due to RL. You have until the update to submit your games.

Hello !
Does somebody know until when is it possible to submit games for this gauntlet?
Superslug do you accept submissions tomorrow? (I know that his gauntlet will finish theoritically today, but recently all the gaubnlets were started later and were prolonged)
I would really appriciate a fast answer because than I am going to make a try during thsi evening.
Br. BozsoYou have at least 24-36 hours yet.

Then tonight I will focus on minor 17

I finished much later than I expexcted: 1765

In Archi map, SS building itslef is much harder due to the lack of hammer. However I think that partly it was my fault that SS building needed about 30 turns.

Failed attempts, probably Lizzy is the best choice...
Map and luck with GHs play a role, of course.
Anyway, i'd like to know how you guys managed to keep 100% science before 1000 AD :confused:
I never use whipping (not even revolt to slavery) perhaps is this the mistake?
So, i keep my non-brilliant 1842 :cry:

In my game, the reason I was able to keep 100% science before 1000AD was that I had settled 3 or 4 GMs and 2 or 3 GPs in my capital. That and the Hindu Shrine(which was the state religion of every civ except Izzy, thus giving me around 20 gpt at that date) were the reasons I was able to keep 100% science.

That and I gifted currency to the AIs ASAP...if I were to make another attempt, I would also gift every AI up to Corporation as well...the limiting factor for me in trade wasn't having enough trade routes, it was making sure the AIs had enough trade routes to make my trade routes worthwhile.

I couldn't keep 100% research till 1000AD, I was often at 80%. But that's not bad in itself.

That and I gifted currency to the AIs ASAP...if I were to make another attempt, I would also gift every AI up to Corporation as well...the limiting factor for me in trade wasn't having enough trade routes, it was making sure the AIs had enough trade routes to make my trade routes worthwhile.

I should have gifted Currency to the AI, so that I could sell them techs for a few coins now and then. But I can't follow your idea about trade routes. You enjoy as many traderoutes per city as your tech and civics and WW allows. It can also be limited by the number of AI cities, if there aren't enough of them then some of your traderoutes will be internal and thus less profitable. The value of each traderoute depends on the size of the two cities involved. The number of trades routes that the other civ cities can enjoy does not play any role in the equation.

Why does the results page for G-Minor 17 have my name on it, in 26th place, but with no other entries? Can I only see my own entry? Or is that just a weird thing that always happens prior to the real results being posted?

as long as the gauntlet has not concluded you can only see your own submission

I should have gifted Currency to the AI, so that I could sell them techs for a few coins now and then. But I can't follow your idea about trade routes. You enjoy as many traderoutes per city as your tech and civics and WW allows. It can also be limited by the number of AI cities, if there aren't enough of them then some of your traderoutes will be internal and thus less profitable. The value of each traderoute depends on the size of the two cities involved. The number of trades routes that the other civ cities can enjoy does not play any role in the equation.

Nearly every one of my trade routes was internal, I had 4 or 5 per city by the end of the game, and I had 10 cities. I've heard that the trade routes I can set up with other civilizations are also limited by the number of trade routes the other city can support. This seemed to be true, because my trade income went up after gifting Currency away, but I'm not really sure that it wans't a result of soemthing else.

This Gauntlet has now concluded. Kuningas narrowly claimed first place with the same date (1680 AD) as jesusin, but with more points. Bozso77 took 3rd place with 1715 AD. G-Major 11 (http://hof.civfanatics.net/civ4/gauntlet.php) is now active, a large monarch cultural.

I am assuming my submissions didn't count for the Quattromasters because some were played with the .003 mod, but did I not get the last one in in time with the .004 mod? I only got my internet back on Tuesday night and thought I sent one in before midnight. What is the timezone that we go by for these babies?

I am assuming my submissions didn't count for the Quattromasters because some were played with the .003 mod, but did I not get the last one in in time with the .004 mod?

All accepted games are counted towards your Quattromaster competition. Did you check under the 'Quattromaster' tab in your 'My Submissions'?

I only got my internet back on Tuesday night and thought I sent one in before midnight. What is the timezone that we go by for these babies?

Sometimes we have to inform the server that the end time for the gauntlet needs to be extended, due to a late update. I'll see about fixing it. Did anyone else submit a G-Minor save that is not showing on the gauntlet page and should be?

Wow, I came second to last. How did I not come last? Amazing.

wow...I was just 6 turns from being #9...and to think, I could have saved at least 20 if I'd built IronWorks in my capital instead of the National Epic...

Congrats to the winners, I still can't figure out how you research that fast! :goodjob:

I can't even work out how Thrallia researched so fast, let alone how the people who beat him managed it.

Uh? 2nd place? Same date as the first one? I don't understand.

Congratulations, Kuningas. Would you write a few words about your game?


Maybe I should have played another game. 1Worker+0serttlers from huts is easily improvable. I never thought I was competing.


I can't even work out how Thrallia researched so fast, let alone how the people who beat him managed it.

Hmmm. I suggest you compare your game to mine (because I have posted a lot of data from my game) or to others. You should pay attention to:
1.- Date you built your capital's Academy. (Of course your first GPeople was a GS, wasn't it?).
2.- Date you revolted to Bureaucracy.
3.- Date you built Oxford in the capital.
4.- Number of cities in 1000BC (you had at least 4, didn't you?).
5.- Number of cities in 1AD (you had at least 6, didn't you?).
6.- WW: you shouldn't waste good hammers in useless wonders like GLight... think carefully which Wonder you really need and go after 1 or 2 only.
7.- Number of cottages in 1000BC (anything different than 0 is ok).
8.- Number of cottages in 1AD. I don't know a good number, I was very slow this game.
9.- Can think of anything else right now...

Uh? 2nd place? Same date as the first one? I don't understand.

Best date wins and score is used as a tie breaker.

The end time was extended, so WilliamofOrange your game is now listed on the final update. Congratulations for your rank and sorry for the inconvenience.

Uh? 2nd place? Same date as the first one? I don't understand.
Best date wins and score is used as a tie breaker.

I am sorry, Methos, I wasn't clear enough. My question was supposed to mean "where are the space experts?" or "how is it possible that someone that has never launched before, plays a test game and then a single game, can come second?". I am still surprised.

"how is it possible that someone that has never launched before, plays a test game and then a single game, can come second?". I am still surprised.

i found that interesting too! i know that you're a good player, but not only are you new to space, but most of your experience is at much higher difficulty levels. in some ways playing at warlord is harder than emperor+, if that's what you're used to, especially a game guaranteed to be long and deep into the tech tree like this one. you just can't rely on tech trades, that ends up changing my entire strategy. i'm glad you got to reach the stars once, and i'm not surprised that it confirmed for you the types of victories that you do like!

grats to all who won the gauntlet. and to me, submitting a victory before the gauntlet closes = winning, so grats to 29 people :)

I am sorry, Methos, I wasn't clear enough. My question was supposed to mean "where are the space experts?" or "how is it possible that someone that has never launched before, plays a test game and then a single game, can come second?". I am still surprised.

Space race is 95% fast tech. Unless you don't plan your space parts very well, you should finish a few turns after you finish teching. So to be a "space expert" is just knowing how to tech fast. You are already an expert at that from other victory conditions. In a couple more attempts you'd be a space expert too.

I'd have to say AAA (a.k.a. beccnoa) is the reigning small map space expert since he (she) holds every HOF spot for small maps with the newest (amazing) 1509 AD on Diety. It's a shame this person didn't attack this gauntlet.

I only got half way through my attempt. RL got in the way and I haven't finished yet. I really liked my map, but I got 0 worker, 0 settlers, so I didn't take it too seriously. I remember that gauntlet on settler difficulty where I wouldn't even play unless I got a couple of each preferably 3 settlers 3 workers.

The end time was extended, so WilliamofOrange your game is now listed on the final update. Congratulations for your rank and sorry for the inconvenience.

No problem, but I was still curious about the timezone used for the cut off time.

Congrats, btw on being a daddy:goodjob:

[Did anyone else submit a G-Minor save that is not showing on the gauntlet page and should be?[/QUOTE]

I submitted a 1620 game, but it wasn't the new .004 for Warlords, ( it was the old .003) I assume that's why it didn't count.

I submitted a 1620 game, but it wasn't the new .004 for Warlords, ( it was the old .003) I assume that's why it didn't count.

Correct. This gauntlet required either v.1.61.011 or v.2.08.004.

To Methos:

I experienced that in my minor17 game some of my small cities didn't receive free specialist for statue of liberty. Anyway these cities were established before finishing the wonder.

To Methos:

I experienced that in my minor17 game some of my small cities didn't receive free specialist for statue of liberty. Anyway these cities were established before finishing the wonder.
SoL just gives you the free specialist on the same continent on an Archi map you most likely build some cities on another landmass...

I should know that :rolleyes:

I haven't played on archi before minor17.