Is anyone currently playing any of the OTM variants on a Vista computer (or tried to do that)? Does it work, or are there problems?

My current machine is crashing more and more frequently with large games or long play sessions ... thinking of looking for a new one, if Vista plays nice with Civ 4, HOF, etc.

Thanks for any insights.

dV

I haven't but I know that the guys at GameSpot have played Civ4 on Vista, and that it seemed to work pretty well(note that while Vista only needs 512MB of RAM, you'd be best off with 1GB-2GB) If you want, I can dig up the link for their comments on PC game compatability on Vista.

I haven't but I know that the guys at GameSpot have played Civ4 on Vista, and that it seemed to work pretty well (note that while Vista only needs 512MB of RAM, you'd be best off with 1GB-2GB) If you want, I can dig up the link for their comments on PC game compatability on Vista. Thanks for the reply! :goodjob:

I figure at least 2GB ram on general principles, and 256 dedicated video memory is a must to avoid the kinds of video problems I've been having. The NVIDIA GeForce Go 7200 in my HP notebook turns out to have 32 or 64 dedicated (depending who your read) and the rest of the 256 shared (not the 256 dedicated I was told it had).

An old but interesting comment about Vista memeory consumption and low end (shared video) cards here:

http://www.notebookforums.com/post2349320.html

And a great comparative resource on video cards here:

http://www.notebookcheck.net/NVIDIA-GeForce-Go-7200.2146.0.html

Including a comment that a good card must also have a good video bus to work well.

Any reason why the HOF mod might not like Vista? That is the second thing that has to be compatible.

dV

I have been using Vista since January. Probably some 100 hours of playing time both for GOTM and WOTM (admittedly I do some micro-management now and then, so it can take some time). I have 1 GB of RAM memory. No real problem, got a CTD once in January but not after that. I am actually using the free beta version RC1, so the Vista release version should be quite OK. I will soon upgrade to the release version.

I use vista from time to time but I get no civ alerts which is annoying.

I am not really having any problems with Vista (1 maybe 2 crashes of CIV in a few months). Sad thing is that most of the movies don't play.

I have been using Vista since January. Probably some 100 hours of playing time both for GOTM and WOTM (admittedly I do some micro-management now and then, so it can take some time). I have 1 GB of RAM memory. No real problem, got a CTD once in January but not after that. I am actually using the free beta version RC1, so the Vista release version should be quite OK. I will soon upgrade to the release version.

I use vista from time to time but I get no civ alerts which is annoying.

I am not really having any problems with Vista (1 maybe 2 crashes of CIV in a few months). Sad thing is that most of the movies don't play.

Thanks for the replies all :goodjob:

If it is not to much trouble ...

@ Lagashvili: CTD is crash to desktop? My video problem, "thread stuck in device driver" for the video system, is a crash to restart after a glimpse of a blue DOS-like screen. So are you getting the Civ alerts and do the movies play OK? What system do you have?

@ g_storrow: Other than Civ alerts, everything else OK? Do you get the movies to play? What is your system?

@ petritis: Are you playing with HOF mod? Civ alerts working for you? On what system?

Thanks in advance for any further info.

dV

Yes, a crash to desktop, but no blue screen or reboot. And yes, the victory movies play very nicely and I get civ alerts when boundaries are about to expand etc. My computer is Intel Core 2 Duo E6400 and Nvidia Geforce 7600 GT and 1 GB of RAM.

Yes, a crash to desktop, but no blue screen or reboot. And yes, the victory movies play very nicely and I get civ alerts when boundaries are about to expand etc. My computer is Intel Core 2 Duo E6400 and Nvidia Geforce 7600 GT and 1 GB of RAM. That is encouraging ... I am looking at a 15.4 inch screen Asus notebook with Core 2 Due T7200, 2 GB ram, and an nVidia GeForce Go 7700 with 512 dedicated video RAM ($ 1800) which should be sufficient given the success with your system.

Or a Toshiba 17 inch screen Core 2 Duo T7200, @ 2 GB RAM, and nVidia GeForce Go 7900 GS 256 dedicated video memory ($2000) if I decide to go big! :D

Thanks very much for the help! :goodjob:

dV

I'd go bigger :) Most likely neither laptop is what is traditionally called 'portable,' none of the laptops that are can possibly play Civ4...so why not go for the nicer, bigger screen...oh and the addition of a 10-key on 17" screens is a big plus...allows you to move your units in all directions without needing to click every single time...its the one thing I wish my 15.4" Dell had the most. :)

oh and the addition of a 10-key on 17" screens is a big plus...allows you to move your units in all directions without needing to click every single time...its the one thing I wish my 15.4" Dell had the most. :)

Why don't you just get a USB keypad?

Everything else seems to work and just playing the latest GOTM with HOF update 11 started working yesterday. The movies startI dont watch all of them.

cause I don't have room for my wireless mouse, much less for a USB keypad, in most of the places I use my laptop, other than my home desk.

The hard drive on my old computer went out on me back in February. This was right after Vista for the individual was rolled out, so I picked up a new HP Pavilion system with Vista (Home Premium), 2 GB of memory, and an Nvidia GeForce 6150LE video card. First time I could see any of the videos, run the multi-character units and keep animated display on! Much nicer appearance.

Vista does do a few quirky things (I've had to do some hunting around to see where my save files go), but the games have played fine, both Civ3 and Civ4, including the HOF mods.

Thanks to all for the info ... GOTM 17 has become an incredible crash nightmare, much earlier in the game than my previous crash issues and despite being on lowest graphics. It even crashed while the computer was idle :eek: ... I stepped away for something to drink, and came back to a reboted machine with the "recovered from a serous error" message that the "thread stuck in device driver" video crash always produces.

It has crashed five turns after a previous crash during a long play session, which combined with the crash while idle makes me wonder if overheating is an issue ... the HP notebook for gaming does get significantly warmer than my Toshiba used for productivity apps (lower end, more security). Toshiba is Intel Centrino Duo, HP is Turion 64. Of course, the game machine gets warmest when playing Civ!

I'd go bigger :) Most likely neither laptop is what is traditionally called 'portable,' none of the laptops that are can possibly play Civ4...so why not go for the nicer, bigger screen...oh and the addition of a 10-key on 17" screens is a big plus...allows you to move your units in all directions without needing to click every single time...its the one thing I wish my 15.4" Dell had the most. :) @ Thrallia: I don't compute in transit, so I don't need an airplane notebook. Just need to move it from site to site so a big notebook works. The 15.4" Asus has a 5400 RPM HD vs 4200 RPM on the 17" Toshiba, and Asus claims to have packed 512 Video ram on their card, vs, 256 on the Toshiba. The Toshiba's card (GeForceGo 7900 GS) is a class 1 card (top tier) scoring 3800 on their test and is said to have 20 pixel pipelines and 7 vertex pipelines on the following site:
http://www.notebookcheck.net/NVIDIA-GeForce-Go-7900-GS.2133.0.htm

The same site says that the Asus' card (GeForce Go 7700) is a class 2 card scoring 2700 on their test (presumably with 256 RAM as that is what the site says the card has) and is said to have 12 pixel piplines and 5 vertex pipelines.

Any idea if bumping the RAM to 512 on the 7700 takes its performance above the 7900GS? Or does number of pipelines rule? Is the HD RPM difference significant for Civ?

Either one has to be better than my current GeForceGo 7200, which the site says is a class 4 card (out of six classes), scoring 674 and having 4 pixel pipelines and 3 vertex piplines.

Everything else seems to work and just playing the latest GOTM with HOF update 11 started working yesterday. The movies startI dont watch all of them. @ g_storrow: Nice to know. Thanks! :goodjob:

The hard drive on my old computer went out on me back in February. This was right after Vista for the individual was rolled out, so I picked up a new HP Pavilion system with Vista (Home Premium), 2 GB of memory, and an Nvidia GeForce 6150LE video card. First time I could see any of the videos, run the multi-character units and keep animated display on! Much nicer appearance.

Vista does do a few quirky things (I've had to do some hunting around to see where my save files go), but the games have played fine, both Civ3 and Civ4, including the HOF mods. @ civ_steve: More encouraging news, thanks :goodjob: Your system is a desktop sytem I assume, since the card is not a "Go"? The 6150 Go is even lower end than my 7200 Go, while the 6150 LE for desktops has 128 dedicated and up to 319 total after adding the TurboCache shared max (per Best Buy specs for their HP's with 6150 LE). My wimpy 7200 Go has at most 64 dedicated and perhaps as little as 32 (different sources say different things).

dV

dV, with 2GB of system RAM, any bottlenecks you have will be because of pipelines, not dedicated video card RAM(at least not when deciding between 256 and 512MB).

On the other hand, that 4200!!(are you sure it isn't 7200?) RPM hard drive would be a huge time delay at loading/saving in any application, and with Civ, could delay it within the game simply because the game has so much information.

The biggest time sink in an application is hard drive speed...5400 is standard on laptops(has been for a few years), 7200 is the new faster hard drive(7200 is standard on desktops, 10,000 is the faster for them)...but I haven't seen a 4200RPM hard drive in a laptop in a number of years...they were last standard in laptops in 2001, I believe.

The biggest time sink in an application is hard drive speed...5400 is standard on laptops(has been for a few years), 7200 is the new faster hard drive(7200 is standard on desktops, 10,000 is the faster for them)...but I haven't seen a 4200RPM hard drive in a laptop in a number of years...they were last standard in laptops in 2001, I believe. @ Thrallia: you are rapidly becoming my own personal computer guru :cool: ... hope you don't mind! ;)

Unless Best Buy has the specs wrong on their site, it is a 200 GB serial ATA HD 4200 RPM in the Toshiba 17" ... could it be that the larger notebook HD have to sacrifice RPM for storage? The Asus 15.4" HD is a 160 GB SATA (I assume that is also serial ATA) at 5400 RPM.

If the Asus card is well above the Civ 4 video threshold, then maybe the faster HD gives it the overall edge? Asus notebooks are supposed to be specifically designed for gaming (but apparently less expensive than Alienware). Or maybe a smaller HD in the Toshiba would be 5400 RPM?

dV

no problem...I've got lots of experience with it...sold desktops and laptops retail for a year, I build desktop PCs for me and my family, and I'm a computer programming major...so basically everything I can think of to do with my life revolves around the computer hardware and software lol

back to the question at hand though...it appears the fastest a 200GB notebook hard drive can spin is 4200 RPM right now...although 160GB can go 5400 RPM, and 100GB can go 7200RPM.

However, before buying you may want to check out some custom laptop places, Dell, Alienware, perhaps Asus' website...the Toshiba laptop is superior to the Asus in every way except HDD speed, which is more important than you'd think.

It appears that Alienware at least, has developed RAID arrays that allow you to act as if you have a single hard drive, while you actually have two, smaller, faster drives working together to act as a single one. Basically, you could then get a 200GB(100GBx2) system at 7200RPM, that is even faster than a single 100GB 7200RPM drive would be, simply because it writes to both drives in a way that surpasses the speed a system can write to a single drive.

On the other hand, from my research...unless you really want a 200GB hard drive, this might be the notebook for you: Asus G2P (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16834220125)

on second thought, the X1700 is quite a bit behind the x1800, which I didn't realize(however, it has more pixel and vertex pipelines than either Nvidia card does).

Its worth noting I'm running a Radeon X300, which appears to be the lowest of the Class 4 cards lol I get 200 points on that test. Woohoo!

Despite that, I have no problem running Civ with multi-unit graphics, 2xAA, Medium graphics levels, and 1024x768(only because I run in Window mode, otherwise it takes too long to alt-tab into other apps...including Notepad. I've also rarely had issues running Huge maps.

Obviously, my computer is inadequate for Vista lol, but any card that can hit 2000 points on 3D Mark 06 is still a pretty good card these days.

Obviously, my computer is inadequate for Vista lol, but any card that can hit 2000 points on 3D Mark 06 is still a pretty good card these days. You mean 200 I assume?

Its worth noting I'm running a Radeon X300, which appears to be the lowest of the Class 4 cards lol I get 200 points on that test. Woohoo!

Despite that, I have no problem running Civ with multi-unit graphics, 2xAA, Medium graphics levels, and 1024x768(only because I run in Window mode, otherwise it takes too long to alt-tab into other apps...including Notepad. I've also rarely had issues running Huge maps. Now I am puzzled :confused: First, what is 2xAA?

Second, "run in Window mode" ... is this a trick I should try?

Third, what do you think is the reason why my card, with a better benchmark score than yours, has so much trouble? I suppose the amount of dedicated video RAM can vary from 0 to 64 in different implementations of mine, given what I am reading. Maybe mine doesn't match the test configuration.

Is heat likely to be an issue? This box does get noticeably warm playing Civ.

dV

Your problem is likely the dedicated video RAM...my card, despite only scoring 200, has 128MB of dedicated RAM.

2xAA is 2x AntiAliasing, minor antialiasing, but any antialiasing is hard on the video card because it smooths out all the rough edges on the graphics.

As for running in windows mode...I don't find Civ to be any more stable in this method(although others have, from what I read long ago before v1.52), I do find that it takes less time to bring up other apps like notepad or the CFC website though.

As for the 2000 I mentioned, I was referring back to the Radeon X1700 on the laptop I linked to for you...It scored a 23xx on the same test you looked at for the two Nvidia cards and has 512MB of dedicated RAM.

Your problem is likely the dedicated video RAM...my card, despite only scoring 200, has 128MB of dedicated RAM. Hmm ... the Notebookcheck site says that an X300 with 128 is more like an X600, so that would make sense.

On the other hand, from my research...unless you really want a 200GB hard drive, this might be the notebook for you: Asus G2P (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16834220125) Appreciate all the input! :goodjob:

Not wedded to the 200 GB HD ... external storage is so cheap now, why have a slow moose on board? Definitely have some more comparison shopping to do, as Alienware had an interesting configuration for just under $2000 (high end video card, fast HD) in a custom cofiguration.

Do you know of any retailers that stock Alienware? Might still buy online, but like to see the item in real life before I decide.

dV

not that I'm aware of, Alienware was bought by Dell, so I think its entirely online now.

If I could afford a new laptop right now, I'd probably get one of those alienware ones...I like the dual video card and dual hard drive configurations!

:goodjob: Enjoy your shopping!

@ Thrallia: Here is a new diagnostic puzzle: today I loaded GOTM 17 and it crashed halfway through the first turn of play! :mad:

Not the usual freeze, blue screen and auto reboot, but this time a sudden crash to desktop with an error message that there was a failure to allocate video memory. The machine had been on for a while doing other things, so I suppose I should always reboot to start a Civ session (till I get a better box).

I've checked at HP and no newer video drivers. Trying to figure out why this game is so much worse than previous ones. We are using a new HOF mod for this one IIRC. Maybe that needs the latest DirectX? I've just updated my DirectX so we will see if that makes a difference.

Otherwise, I can't figure why GOTM 17 is being a unique problem for my machine.

dV

no clue...the only time I've gotten that message was when playing a huge map up past the middle ages without stopping, before v1.52, and I ran out of video RAM, computer RAM, and virtual RAM...I think that might be what happened for yours(or your computer just plain freaked out when it ran out of regular RAM)

You could either increase your paging file size(virtual RAM), or hopefully just reboot before you play Civ...I think I read something about an error issue in the latest HOF mod, but don't recall exactly what it was...if it is possibly because of the mod, you might want to let Denniz know over in the HOF forum.

@ Thrallia: latest wrinkle ... early play crash in SGOTM 4, the blue screen and reboot variety. So that gets HOF mod off the hook it would appear. AlanH suggested a reinstall of Civ 4 and Warlords might help ... do you think that is likely to be useful? Or do you think nothing can save this weak video card?

dV