We are on the smaller continent. Plenty space to expand but no happiness resources. If someone feels it's too easy, there is a additional task for him - no cottages ...

Good luck ...

edit: personally i'll try SE, but I have a habit to cottage all Academy cities and I won't give up this ;).

Haven't seen the save yet. Smaller continent makes things more difficult, i'll try without (self built) cottages. I'll play tomorrow.

I played up to 1 AD. Save is attached.

Thoughts -
The start is actually pretty good, despite the lack of happiness. I'm not building any cottages, not because I feel it will be too easy, but because I am trying to learn a new style of play :). We have lots of land around us, and lots of jungle in between us and either AI at this point. Early war would be very hard, so I just expanded and ran scientists. My plan is to take overthe romans mid game with maces/trebs, but I still have lots of land still to settle. I'm not going to save/load at all during this game, so if I end up losing later i'll just post up to that save (so far so good though). What I probably should've done is done oracle --> monarch for early happiness. A high production capital with forests usually does pretty well, but it would've thrown my tech path off a bit. Ideally, I think my floodplain city could've worked some cottages as well. I ended up lightbulbing maths this game, which may or may not have been a good idea. I think this map is better suited for and HE or CE, but we will find out.

forgot the save :P

hmm i am trying this out i guess. Philosophical without cottages should work out if i only manage to run a SE myself:p.

Played till 1020AD ...


Had some luck at the begining. Grabbed Animal husbandry, Pottery and Writing from goodie huts with only one scout. Also grabbed 150 gold. The second city was destined to take marble. Wanted to rush monument but forgot that Bronze working is needed first :[
http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/70897/snap10000.JPG


Oracle is rushed in 1600BC and Monarchy is grabbed. That was mistake, I should have grabbed CoL for additional research.
http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/70897/snap40000.JPG


I slowed researching important techs as: Currency and Calendar. Lizzy had both techs and I expected Ceasar will get them soon. I had had to wait many turns until this happened.
http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/70897/snap70000.JPG


Mansa appeared with caravel in 660AD and he had knowledge of Education. Several turns later Great Merchant was born, I assumed Mansa just grabbed Economics. Before Education was researched, Mansa grabbed liberalism. I managed only to circumnavigate the globe ...
http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/70897/snap80000.JPG

I had no luck at all with Great People. 5 great prophets were born. First to lightbulb Theology. 2,3,4 as superspecialists. 5 constructed The church of nativity. Grrrr. Lost race to Great Library. Some Engineer rushed this wonder far away.
http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/70897/snap90000.JPG


Perhaps I will start my game once again from the begining. I am not convinced to farm economy at all. Fortunately capital is cottaged.

Alexander is really poor leader for this start. And I regret not making a better effort to get the Oracle. The free tech and great prophet would have been very useful. I didn't build any cottages. At size three, 3 cottages isn't any better than working a food resources to support two scientists.

Well it's not going too bad this time, I'm not sure how I will win, but I have a reasonable chance.

I built the oracle and took monarchy for some happiness, I considered MC for a forge and possible pyramids from that, I think it would have worked as pyramids were in late. I missed the first 6 religions, Islam not in yet, and conf hasn't spread to me either. I did get the GL and liberalism at 900AD. I took nationalism as it was the most expensive (not a good reason). I have just taken a nice gem/dye city from the barbs. But I need to start a war. Not sure who it will be. Or maybe I have enough space already for a victory? Maybe someone with more experience could advise me on this.

http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/110529/Civ4ScreenShot0001.JPG

It's 1AD and 1 turn before the GL. I think it's quite late but I got it anyway.

http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/110529/Civ4ScreenShot0002.JPG

ok I fail at SE I think.

I won liberalism, but the game just didn't go very well. Research was not fast enough, and not enough trading partners...

I didn't expand enough and overall just played poorly.

I might be able to have a successful war with trebs/maces, but the situation isn't looking that great. :sad:

I had the same sort of start as Giaur did, popped mining, mysticism and writing + 150 gold, chopped oracle around 1400, had a hard decision then between code of laws and Monarchy, chose code of laws because alpha was near ( i set 2 scientists to work directly after popping writing and building the library) and Lizzy had monarchy so i thought i could trade when Augustus got it too. Ran into the same problem as Giaur did, Augustus took forever to research monarchy so i was saddled with size 5-6 cities for a long time. Should have taken monarchy i don't see the value of col so early Giaur courthouse is useless at this time i think?. I had a very good research position around 500 bc but didn't make much of it in the end, i think i should have geared up for war sooner. At 1100 Ad i've taken on Augustus with some success but economy is in shambles. Still looks not so bad. i've played a bit further though and the other continent is insane making this emperor game more difficult than some immortal games i've played

I might continue the game from 500bc or 1 ad to see if i can do better than this with more early expansion or war against Augustus. Playing from the point where i'm now will be a huge challenge. Ironically the early research was not the problem, never had alphabet so soon.

I got a ridiculous 700 AD discovery of liberalism by a distant civilization (I was storing up 3 GS before I made a run for liberalism - I was waiting for one more GS). I didn't set up my capital properly, so I will play over from the 1 AD save as I've completely forgotten how to play a pure SE :blush: It's hard with a non-spiritual civ as I can't pop in and out of slavery/caste system :(

I played on untill 1170AD, met the other continent and traded well with them, I really need to conquer england and rome but I don't think I have the military might or skills. I would like to bribe them to fight each other but they have the same religion and I am free religion, I guess I could convert, but that would be 2 turns of anarchy, 1 for religion and one out of free religion. And it might not work. Setting them on(or vice versa) someone from other continent wouldn't be enough as 2 gallions with 2 maces and 2 trebs will not dent their military. I cannot out tech the other continent as the chief whore himself is there. All my talk of possible victory has come to nothing again.

I'm not sure if I will continue this one, I don't have good enough cities. I think the lack of a good copper city and the jungle seperating us from the enemy made an early attack too difficult for me.

Spoiler of play up till 1600

I basically lost the game around 1600. MM, Asoka and Wang kon together with financial techy Lizzy have run away completely techwise, around 1550 i was informed that MM had built broadway(electricity) and in 1580 i see Lizzy's Sam inf (Rocketry ) running through my open borders. I saw this all coming so i played rather sloppy but i'm not doing much worse than other games i played on these levels, i have science output of 500 beakers pt and this will go up rapidly once biology (7 turns now) is in. I'm really amazed at the tech timeline here, usually on an average immortal game the Ai's are doing things like electricity and assembly line between 1650-1700, they seem to be 200 years faster on this emperor game. I could take out Augustus any moment but it's just a waste of time i feel, i think i will hit enter to see when MM launches maybe built Scotland yard to follow this proccess my bet = around 1750-1800. So far for me suggesting a difficult immortal game :blush: :lol:. I will probably go back and try again from 300 bc or even 1000 bc to see if i can improve and with the knowledge of the techy other continent i will certainly cottage the capital this time. I also should have built more workers and settlers and improved the capital more, focused too much on the war with Augustus.Even with the knowledge about the other continent i now doubt if i can win this particular game.

At least the early research problem is solved, with 2 scientists ran of a lib, settling the first gs, completely solves the early research problem :goodjob:.

yeah, this game in general seems very difficult, and the fact that a lot of people are trying SE seems to make things harder. I think with a financial leader + cottage spam it would've been easier to keep up in tech. There was a lot of space around.

Indeed, one of the problems in this game is there's enough space to expand and you have to fuel this expansion with cottages. An early war (where SE shines) was not really possible because first Augustus and Lizzy are too far away and when Augustus came near i had to wait till he cleared the jungle (no good to have to pay upkeep for jungle cities). Strangely i switched a lot of civics while not being spiritual, somehow it doesn't hurt that much when you see Constitution(40) on top of your screen :lol:.

EDIT: I agree with Dirk, this game doesn't play like an emperor level game (and it's not because of the lack of resources - I think it's the map layout).

I cheated at the 1000 AD point as I was mystified as to how an emperor level AI got liberalism in 700 AD. I checked in worldbuilder and found out that the bigger continent had 3 hardcore techers, and the sole holdout was being smashed to bits. Well that explains the furious tech pace that was going on in this game. I think even if we had a financial civ, we may have had a hard time keeping up with the tech pace that was progressing on the other continent.

@ Giaur:

I just played my first short turnset (building oracle)... ...I plan in trying something new to me... ...If you could wait til tuesday, I think I could catch up to 1000 AD

Played up to 1AD. Nothing great here but game seems to have good prospects. Not really sure what went wrong but seem a little off the pace.

I decided to give this one a try. Don't have much time to play today so I'll try to finish most this weekend. Never played Alex before.

Never popped so many huts in a game before. A couple free scouts, 100+ gold and myst free. The free myst enabled me to get Hinduism. I was a bit worried going for it since I had already researched agriculture and AH.

Set my 2nd city by the marble and plan to go for the Oracle. Will probably take monarchy and then I'll research Construction to build the Odeons. Happiness shouldn't be much of a problem after that point.

Haven't met any civs yet.

http://img391.imageshack.us/img391/3306/civ4screenshot0001fp0.jpg

@Snaaty: ok, i'll wait till tuesday

@everyone: This session is closed on Tuesday.

Try not to play further earlier than tuesday ...

@information for impatient ones ...

Select one save between 1500AD and 1700AD. Do not post both: 1500AD and 1700AD. And one save between 1700AD and end of the game (succesful end or not).

I've re-attempted from the start.

This time I actually remembered to cottage up the capital area. Other than that, play was very similar to the first time around (but my economy was much easier to sustain with bureaucracy. However, liberalism has not yet been discovered at 1000 AD in my save.

Basically scouted the starting area, didn't venture much into the jungle though. I then founded the coastal marble city as my second city to shot for oracle. I took COL off of oracle, then teched through monarchy on my own and switched into monarchy. I had met Lizzy and Augustus at this point so I started selling backwards tech to them. I continued settling eastwards to cut off my portion of the continent from them. However, Augustus settled cities very close to me and started getting annoyed with me. I gifted him two whole techs to get +4 fair trade bonus and to keep him off my back. I kept on gifting techs to Lizzy to turn her Confucian as well.

With the diplomacy all settled and no fear of war, I just built up infrastructure - although I don't have much of a clue of how to do that with an SE...

I am almost done researching liberalism at 1000 AD, will probably take Nationalism off of it in preparation for war against the southern neighbors. I have a spare GM wandering around in foreign territory and I'm thinking of teching military tradition + gunpowder while building knights, then mass upgrading them into cavalry and going to war. At least that's the plan... we'll see how well it goes in my next update.

I decide to try this one out as well and bascially followed the exact strategy as the Gandhi game I had before.
I am an idiot and forgot the 1AD save. Buit here is AD1040.
Actually I will research HBR+MT instead of Chemistry since there are 2 GS's coming soon for lightbulbing.

http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/106707/Alexander_AD-1040.CivWarlordsSave



Was very very silly and completely forgot about the Oracle since the AI's always build it quickly. Realised the Oracle was still available around 700BC and then got beaten to it by one turn.

Research is essentially a beeline to Liberalism then Constitution.

Important events:
Scout Pop a ton of gold and Mystism.

475BC: GL
325BC: Philosophy
100BC: CoL and switch to Pacifism+CS
300AD: Civil Service, Paper, Education
520AD: Swtich to Slavery+OR won't be using Pacifism and CS anymore
680AD: Liberalism taking Nationalism
980AD: Constitution

I just won the race to liberalism, and now I'll head for representation. I'm not dominating the game yet, but I'm surviving.

I also reached the 1 AD mark... ...played in 3 short turnsets during the last week


So far, everything went more or less as planned. Settled on the spot, next city went inlands, along the river towards jungle... ...next on the coast to claim the marble

Innitial teching was as usuall:

basic workertechs, pottery, ahusbandry (which revealed some horses in BFC), bronze

Since I had no money, nothing usefull left to build and my capital limited to size 4, I decided to leave my usuall techpath and squezed in meditation and priesthood

oracle build/chopped (first time I ever have build the oracle:eek:)

While thinking about building the oracle, I suddenly had the idea of changing my techpath some more:

next was math... ...while building the oracle, I already had set 2 scientists to work... ...took CoL of the oracle and bulbed phil around 1500 BC with first GS (instead of building an academy).

Thanks to pacifism, next GS was through in 9 turns (I tried to make max. use of Alex´s traits... ...since agressive was utterly useless, I had to focus on philosofical...)

Academy + some cottages near capital, all other cities were going pure FE... ...one more GS was planned in rivercity

Then back to usuall researchpath:

alpha-lit

Great Library is down to 2 turns at 1 AD in costal city... ...capital is working 3 or 4 cottages to help the research

Got beaten for two great citylocations (dschungel shugar/river by Rome and dschungel shugar/iron by England... ...but managed to grab the diamonds + blue thingy site... ...blocked of a huge area of land (maybe 12-14 cities possible)

Am thinking of using next GS to build 2. academy in diamond-blue thingy city (5 or 6 luxury resources in BFC) instead of using him to bulb paper

...

In generall, this game feels more like an isolation game... ...although I lost 2 great citysites to my neighbours (one each) I start to feel pitty with them... ...they tech so incredible slow, that I decided to simply NOT techtrade with them so far... ...had to research all techs myself (only did two extremely onesided trades... ...mainly to increase relations because of different religion to get the +4: CoL-ironworking with England and phil-monarchy with Rome)

Well, I think I´m still quite on track with this game... ... lib should be in around 600 AD, but exact date depending on future trading possibilities with my stupid neighbours (need metal casting and compass)... ...I will try again to do a "no war spacerace" (which should be rel. easy with this start...)

Save in next post, when I have reached the 1000 AD mark


EDIT:

Argh... ...just found out in Pete´s post that something called "odeon" would increase happiness... ...could this be the special building of Greece???... ...should have really checked on this BEFORE playing

Kudos to you guys who can manage this type of game. I just passed the 1 AD mark and don't even have iron hooked up.

Argh... ...just found out in Pete´s post that something called "odeon" would increase happiness... ...could this be the special building of Greece???... ...should have really checked on this BEFORE playing

Nice to know I'm not the only one who missed this :D I didn't start building odeons until very late... It started to conflict with my military builds for war so I haven't even completed a full slate of odeons in my cities yet :( I definitely could have used those two extra :) too.

Just a thought, wouldn't oracle for alphabet be pretty good? A super early GL can't be bad, and you can even build research if you are in a hole.

I took CoL for happy reasons (+2 with temples). Plus you get courthouses. Does alphabet take that long to research if you have scientists on the go?

usually 15-20 turns for alphabet. anycase I never tried taking alphabet before, moslyt because i am always beaten to oracle.

I took CoL for happy reasons (+2 with temples). Plus you get courthouses. Does alphabet take that long to research if you have scientists on the go?

Tried again with some cottages , situation is somewhat better this time, I'll play on from these saves Giaur so forget about the previous ones.

Thanks for waiting...


The tech-pace on my conti was really bah.... ...so not much trading done... ...after 1 AD, only construction and machinery were traded (don´t remember for what)

Machinery arrived just in time (lib was down to 1 turn) and since it was around 700 AD I gambled and... ...got astro as freebe at 820 AD.

Right now I´m sailing out to find the other conti (have made first contact 1000 AD) and hope to bring my economy up a little... ...I am more or less broke... ...research at 50 % only

I settled all cities (except capital and early blocking cities) costal and will now migrate my economy from bureau... to TE (trade economy)

I´m busy whipping granaries, libraries/theatres, courthouses and harbours.

There are still two barb cities (now more or less incorporated in my empire:lol:... ...I settled around them) which I plan to conquer with trebs once my dumb continent buddies have managed to research engineering (and I have traded for it). I don´t want to trade it with the other conti, because there are better things to trade for later with them

Since I don´t have bronze and I don´t need rep (hrule is OK for TE) I´m thinking of skipping the SoL and concentrating on economy techs and bio ASAP, but I´m still undecided.

Right now I´m researching nationalism, because nationhood it´s a good civic for TE (cheap and happy from barracks for additional whipping) because I plan to change civics from bureau... to nationhood once my TE is up and running


The saves:
saves removed
...

EDIT:

Just had a look at most 1000 AD saves... ...I really seem to be the only one who is playing without specialists AND cottages (except 4-5 near capital and one build by accident (klicked wrong button it seems))

Still my research is quite good, even pre TE (Trade Economy), with only 50% science and closed borders to my continent buddies... ...I think it´s worth having a look at my saves:)

@Snaaty: I guess it's in fact impressive one ...

@all: I will do a writeup tomorrow morning.

Concerning my own game: Merchantilism is a threat for me. But I'll try to push my current save to the end. I guess it will be easy. You can always fight with numbers. If I remember correctly Constitution can be partly lightbulbed by Great Merchant. That's also information for you Dirk ...

Yes i know a merchant can help here, i got constitution relatively easy the second time i played though, problem now is, it's not as useful to me now i've cottaged half of my empire. Again i've played sloppy , this time probably because i've seen it all before up till 1600. I'll probably finish the game tonight with a space race attempt, win or lose, it'll be my last attempt at this one, never felt comfortable in this game.

Spoiler about the finish of the game.I really got thrashed this game, Mansa launched 1845 AD. I hadn't even finished Internet and Apollo program by that time, there were a lot of small things that i could have done better (expand a bit earlier and better micro M , at least fetch the pig spot on the left that MM got in the end) but i don't think it would have turned the game around.

I now think that i should have tried for domination, the map didn't seem suitable for this though (far AI's). It would also have taken a lot of my time in a game that i was playing for the second time already.

I hope the rest of you do better and that i'll pick up a few good ideas from your games.

To snatty, I'm really impressed with the location of your 4th city. It gets the gems and dye. I got a city over there but not as early as you did. I don't understand how you manage to expand so well without crashing your economy, I guess it's whipping court houses and keeping your military to a minimum. You somehow manage to keep all of the ai's sweet. Do you gift them lots? You seem to have a very good understanding of the ai diplomacy scoring system.

Another thing to most of you, you all seem to play a lot quicker then I do, my games do report a slower time then actually playing as I often leave the game on while I do something else. Do you use the ordering builds function? and how do you keep an eye on where all you military are?
Thanks

Keeping the Ai sweet is not the problem in this game i think, Augustus and Lizzy are generally not quick to declare on you. I should have whipped courthouses and markets myself earlier than i could have expanded easier towards the gems and dye myself instead of taking them later from Augustus.

As for playing quicker, you mean the auto building governor by ordering builds function? I don't use that, military is always at home exceping for fogbusters and citytakers. Probably i just play a lot.

@ mrchadt & dirk:

Just checked my first save what I did:lol::

I didn´t whip early (normally only start around 1 AD or so) because early happiness is a huge problem... ...my trick for expansion are extremely early cottages near capital (had 3 cottages with 4 gold each) combined with scientists

Courthouses I have build only after i expanded... ...but I compensated the 30 turns or so of total economical breakdown with libraries and scientists (I build libs VERY early to switch between CE and SE when needed) therefore I got 3 GS extremely early because I was able to set 2 GS at work in all 3 cities I had at that time (bulbed phil and have build 2 academies)

Since I try to avoid early game wars, I can keep my military costs quite low (had around 500 BC 4 warriors, 1 scout and 3 charriots)

my philosophy is quite simple for early game expansion... ...first expand (and block of the AI) then take care on recovering economy

The citysite with the gems and dye I have only choosen to get a monopol on those resources (to have them ALL in BFC)... ...the city isn´t very good in my point of view for long term consideration because not enough food (later the gold generated by luxurious resources doesn´t matter much... ...I usually stop working them in midgame and switch to farms because of the food)

Dirk is right... ...those AI´s are really easy to handle, even when not sharing your religion (once they are pleased, they leave you alone)

I'm replaying (with cottages) as well. I should have the update for you before the writeup tomorrow morning though. All farms was too hard for me :)

Here are my saves.

I massed cottages and built nothing pretty much.

text text text

@Binky123: No problem. I would have just waited for you, if you did not deliver new saves till now.

Coffee time, and I guess gnomes will do the writeup in this time ;)

1AD Writeup:
---------------------------
I've received 10 entries. Binky123's save is corrupted for my system. Please let someone check his save. Maybe it's because I installed ruff's mod. Jihe has not delivered 1AD save. So for now 8 entries are summarized and it will be updated in case ...
---------------------------


Giaur:
---------------------------

Basic info:
Total cities: 4
Total population: 27
Average pop: 6.75
Beakers: 56
Hammers: 36
GP's so far: 5

Economy:
MostAdvancedTechs: Theology, CoL
CurrentResearch: Literature
Civics: Hereditary Rule, Caste System, Theocracy
Cottages: 0
Specialists: 8 (+2 superspecialists)
Workers: 4

Buildings:
Giaur spent total 900 hammers for buildings and 33.3 hammers for one citizen.
Wonders:
The Oracle
Parthenon
ToA
The church of the nativity

Diplo&Trade:
None of the neighbours is connected to Giaur's trade network. Giaur has acces to marble, iron and horse. No happiness resources.

Army:
Giaur has medium military. Giaur favours chariots.

Religion:
Giaur managed to found Christianity and 75% of his cities has its present. No other religions on the continent.


nullspace:
---------------------------

Basic info:
Total cities: 4
Total population: 28
Average pop: 7.0
Beakers: 66
Hammers: 22
GP's so far: 3

Economy:
MostAdvancedTechs: Philosophy, CoL
CurrentResearch: Literature
Civics: Hereditary Rule, Caste System
Cottages: 0
Specialists: 12 (+1 superspecialist)
Workers: 3

Buildings:
Nullspace spent total 690 hammers for buildings and 24.6 hammers for one citizen.
Wonders:
No wonders

Diplo&Trade:
There is trade with Lizzy. Nullspace has acces to marble and horse(2). No happiness resources.

Army:
Nullspace has quite weak military. Nullspace favours chariots and warriors.

Religion:
Nullspace managed to found Taoism and 50% of his cities has its present. No other religions on the continent.


Mrchadt:
---------------------------

Basic info:
Total cities: 4
Total population: 22
Average pop: 5.5
Beakers: 43
Hammers: 27
GP's so far: 2

Economy:
MostAdvancedTechs: Literature, Monarchy
CurrentResearch: Drama
Civics: Hereditary Rule, Slavery
Cottages: 9
Specialists: 1 (+1 superspecialist)
Workers: forgot

Buildings:
Mrchadt spent total 630 hammers for buildings and 28.6 hammers for one citizen.
Wonders:
The Oracle

Diplo&Trade:
There is trade with both Lizzy and Caesar. Mrchadt has access to marble and horse. Perspectives on iron.

Army:
Mrchadt has quite strong military. Mrchadt favours warriors, chariots and archers.

Religion:
No state religion. Lizzy, Caesar - confucianists.


Ungy:
---------------------------

Basic info:
Total cities: 4
Total population: 16
Average pop: 4.0
Beakers: 51
Hammers: 11
GP's so far: 1

Economy:
MostAdvancedTechs: Alphabet, Mathematics
CurrentResearch: Literature
Civics: Slavery
Cottages: 6
Specialists: 4
Workers: 4 (+2 settlers)

Buildings:
Ungy spent total 690 hammers for buildings and 43.1 hammers for one citizen.
Wonders:
No wonders

Diplo&Trade:
There is trade with both Lizzy and Casear. Ungy has acces to marble and horse. There are perspectives on iron. Access to gems.

Army:
Ungy has medium military. Ungy favours chariots.

Religion:
No state religion. Lizzy and Caesar are confucianists.


Pete2006:
---------------------------

Basic info:
Total cities: 5
Total population: 29
Average pop: 5.8
Beakers: 66
Hammers: 36
GP's so far: 2

Economy:
MostAdvancedTechs: CoL, Literature
CurrentResearch: Construction
Civics: Hereditary Rule
Cottages: 8
Specialists: 2
Workers: 4 (+1 settler)

Buildings:
Pete2006 spent total 710 hammers for buildings and 24.5 hammers for one citizen.
Wonders:
The Great Library
Kashi Vash-something
The Oracle
The Great Lighthouse

Diplo&Trade:
There is trade with Lizzy. Pete2006 has acces to marble and horse(2).

Army:
Pete2006 has quite weak military. Pete2006 favours chariots and warriors.

Religion:
Pete2006 managed to found Hinduism and 80% of his cities has its present. Lizzy, Caesar both christians.


Shyuhe:
---------------------------

Basic info:
Total cities: 4
Total population: 15
Average pop: 3.75
Beakers: 41
Hammers: 30
GP's so far: 2

Economy:
MostAdvancedTechs: Theology, CoL
CurrentResearch: Mathematics
Civics: Hereditary Rule, Slavery, Organized religion
Cottages: 3
Specialists: 0
Workers: 3

Buildings:
Shyuhe spent total 880 hammers for buildings and 58.7 hammers for one citizen.
Wonders:
The Great Library
The Oracle
Parthenon
The Kong Miao
ToA

Diplo&Trade:
There is trade with both Lizzy and Caesar. Shyuhe has acces to marble and horse(2). Perspectives on iron, marble.

Army:
Shyuhe has weak military. Shyuhe favours chariots and warriors.

Religion:
Shyuhe managed to found Confucianism and Christianity and 100% of his cities has SR present. Lizzy - confucianist, Caesar - judaist.


Dirk1302:
---------------------------

Basic info:
Total cities: 4
Total population: 18
Average pop: 4.5
Beakers: 55
Hammers: 23
GP's so far: 4

Economy:
MostAdvancedTechs: Philosophy, CoL
CurrentResearch: Civil Service
Civics: Hereditary Rule, Slavery
Cottages: 3
Specialists: 2
Workers: 5

Buildings:
Dirk1302 spent total 540 hammers for buildings and 30 hammers for one citizen.
Wonders:
The Great Library
The Oracle
National Epic

Diplo&Trade:
There is trade with both Lizzy and Caesar. Dirk1302 has access to marble, iron and horse. Perspectives on horse.

Army:
Dirk1302 has weak military. Dirk1302 favours chariots.

Religion:
Dirk1302 managed to found Confucianism and Taoism and 50% of his cities has SR present. Lizzy - hinduist, Caesar - confucianist.


Snaaty:
---------------------------

Basic info:
Total cities: 5
Total population: 18
Average pop: 4.5
Beakers: 40
Hammers: 25
GP's so far: 3

Economy:
MostAdvancedTechs: Philosophy, Calendar
CurrentResearch: Civil Service
Civics: Hereditary Rule, Slavery, Pacifism
Cottages: 5
Specialists: 0
Workers: 5

Buildings:
Snaaty spent total 750 hammers for buildings and 41.7 hammers for one citizen.
Wonders:
The Oracle

Diplo&Trade:
There is possible trade with both Lizzy and Caesar, but no OB is signed. Snaaty has acces to marble and horse(2). Access to gems. Perspectives on dyes and incense.

Army:
Snaaty has weak military. Snaaty favours warriors and chariots (exactly in this order ;))

Religion:
Snaaty managed to found Confucianism and Taoism and 100% of his cities has SR present. Lizzy, Caesar - judaists.

Second part of writeup:

1) Research path:
Giaur: Agriculture -> Mining -> The wheel -> Mysticism
nullspace: Agriculture -> Animal husbandry -> Mining -> BW
Mrchadt: Agriculture -> Mining -> BW -> Archery
Ungy: Agriculture -> Mining -> BW -> Animal husbandry
Pete2006: Animal husbandry -> Mysticism -> Polytheism -> The wheel
Shyuhe: Animal husbandry -> Mining -> Mysticism -> Polytheism
Dirk1302: Agriculture -> Animal husbandry -> BW -> The wheel
Snaaty: Animal husbandry -> Pottery -> Mining -> BW

2) City placement:
Due to more players, there are more identical placements ...

a) 8 star placement
nullspace & Pete2006 & shyuhe & Dirk1302 & Snaaty & Mrchadt & Binky123 & Jihe

http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/70897/capitalplacement10000.JPG

b) 4 star placement
Giaur & nullspace & Pete2006 & shyuhe

http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/70897/fishplacement10000.JPG

c) 4 star placement
nullspace & Giaur & Dirk1302 & Binky123

http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/70897/sheepcity0000.JPG

d) 3 star placement
nullspace & Snaaty & Jihe

http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/70897/horsecity20000.JPG

e) 3 star placement
Mrchadt & Snaaty & Jihe

http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/70897/fishplacement20000.JPG

:king: :king: 2 star placements ...

f) Ungy & Giaur

http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/70897/capitalplacement20000.JPG

g) Giaur & Ungy

http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/70897/marbleplacement10000.JPG

h) Mrchadt & Pete2006

http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/70897/horsecity10000.JPG

i) Ungy & Pete2006

http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/70897/sheep20000.JPG

j) Dirk1302 & Binky123

http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/70897/2ntocorn0000.JPG

k) Binky123 & Jihe

http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/70897/ironcity0000.JPG

We could make a competition just concerning on city placement issue. My proposal would be: NumberofStars ^ 1.5 for all cities ;) ...

@Binky123 ... I am going to reinstall Warlords today ...

edit: It did not help :[

I like the idea of rating city placements as I think I make some bad choices of where I put my cities. Hence; I don't think that a placement should get more stars because more people go there, maybe some analysis with pros and cons.
I wasn't happy with my g site city, it wasn't a great science city nor was its production good. My h site city had my best production (other then capital) hence HE, but I don't think it was strong enough for that and it shared squares with the capital.

Thanks for another excelent write up Giaur, keep up the good work.

Binky's loaded ok on my machine, I saved it, here it is.

Hey, sorry my save wasn't working. It's ok if you don't include me in the writeups, not a big deal.

I played a little further and mansa musa is completely running away with the game. He's getting techs every 4 turns, built the statue of liberty, etc... so I don't think I'll be able to win unless I can insight a war or something.

I meant Binky's 1AD save ...

@Binky123: you can always do writeup of your own save and I will only update it :)

edit:

@Mrchadt: I prefer no analysis. Only points, but you can disagree that common choices are usually good ...

great write-ups. The city placements and tech orders are very informative.

In hindsight, I probably made a mistake in prioritizing GL over mathematics as I didn't chop many forests and it really hurt my development in the long run (combined with trying to force an SE under suboptimal conditions).

@Binky123: My Mansa is also researching techs in every 4 turns. However it's not as good advantage as it seems. There are less possibilities to exchange advances for him.

btw. I will update second part of writeup today (research path, city placement) concerning your 1000AD save.

I retired in 1725AD, when noone was willing to exchange knowledge. Possibly I could win Space Race, if I reloaded to 1680AD and beelined to the Internet, but I go for domination in almost every case ...

edit: City Placement updated for 2 entries!

@ Giaur:

are you still going to do the writeups???


Just finished the game via spacerace (always peace)... ...but is was VERY close... ...both Mansa and Wang were equal in tech with me (ALL techs researched and only missing one or 2 parts each)

@Snaaty: Someone has to do them. And I did not received another save from 1500-1700AD period.

@All:
Please post the save from 1500-1700AD period.

edit: Recently all posts came only from me. Silence everywhere. Strange. Come on guys, speak ...

Here's my 1500 save.Things are going ok considering, Asoka has vasselized wan and brennus, mansa declared on wan and therefore the other 2. I've taken some roman cities and am about to take some more. england is a worry as they are friends with the romans. I feel this one is too hard for me to win, so I will probably give in.

By the way I had place k too.

@ Giaur: Someone has to do them

Yes, I know:D... ...good that it´s you this time

Btw. I was waiting for the 2. part of the 1 AD& 1000 AD writeup (the 1000 AD thingy...) before posting... ...didn´t know it was open already... ...now I know... ...great 1 AD writeup... ...lots of work I suggest... ...no prob if you keep the others way shorter


Well, I continued the building of my TE (traded economy by bribing everybody into free market. I whipped everywhere theatres, grens, harbours, courthouses. Around that time I approached dem. but Mansa was 7 turns faster then me... ...so I bribed him to war against Ash (who had vassalized Brennus already at that point) by sacrificing my only tech I had on him (sient.met) but that kept them bussy long enough for me to build the SoL.

After that was done, i did the usuall bureau/slavery to national/cast switch and set all cities to focus on food,production and science. I never bothered switching to emancipation btw. since everybody loved me and i had traded in all happy res in the game (I really mean ALL)

When I switched, I was equal in tech with Mansa/Ash/Wan, and I was able to keep up with them all the game (on average, 4-5 turns resarch for each tech). There wasn´t much tech-trading done, therefore I didn´t hit the WFYABTA penalty at all (even after I traded in ALL techs available during the last turns (=archery/mono/theo...))

To assure the important late game wonders (3gorges, spacelift) I bribed Ash to war with Mansa lategame, what ended in Mansa beeing vassalized. Still this didn´t hinder Mansa in keeping up in tech and I barely managed to lauch before them.

The game was extremely peacefull, 4 nations me, rome, england, korea never went to war, of the 3 wars taking place, 2 were bribed by my:crazyeye:

Overall, I was quite surprised, because I didn´t expect emperor AI´s keeping up that close in a spacerace (haven´t had such a close call since quite a lot of games) and won by only some turns before Mansa/Wang (would have been quite a shame to be defeated in spacerace by a vassalized Mansa. I have to admitt I played a little sloppy in endgame (from 1450 AD on) but still, with 3 expert techtraders and good surroundings on the bigger conti, this game was quite interesting

I didn´t stick exactly to the milestones (like usual, final save is also included):

I lost to a space race. I conquered a bunch of cities off of Rome but it wasn't enough of a land grab (he was way ahead in tech - I was doing cavalry/muskets vs. machine guns). Mansa and Wang sped off in tech (I barely kept up with Rome) and Mansa launched before I could even finish Apollo :(

I was very surprised at the tech speed of this game... it seemed a lot faster than a standard emperor game.

@Snaaty: Someone has to do them. And I did not received another save from 1500-1700AD period.

@All:
Please post the save from 1500-1700AD period.

edit: Recently all posts came only from me. Silence everywhere. Strange. Come on guys, speak ...
I have no saves after 1695 , you can see clearly how i'll lose the game from this point.
Edit: Shyuhe, seems our games were almost parallel, tech pace really was insane in this game, MM also launched in 1846 in my game, Kudo's to Snaaty, impressive to win this with a space race, blocking early and going peaceful after really payed off here. Compared with the others you have massive infra in place at times when other like me are still recovering from fighting.

@Giaur, i was a bit dissapointed by this game, your write ups were impressive just as your previous ones, saw your save, you still have some chances at that 1725 point don't you?, what happened that no one wants to trade?

Fairly frustrating game for me. Seemed like I was beat to everything by a hair. No religion until after 1000AD with OB with 2 civs from at least 1000BC. Got diplo in 1780 tho.

MM looked to be running away with it so I went for diplo. Game was pretty much a lovefest other than a war I stirred up late and MM vassaling Brennus early. Played on for space for curiousity. MM built final part in bad city--I made mistake of pillaging an improvement to cause starvation--next turn he ran a stack of eng and cost me several turns. Had him beat but Asoka beat me. I think I would have got it had I not gone the UN route tho. Mostly CE--only 10 GP I think. Way short production--never got GE. Built almost no military after 1AD--maybe 10 units.

Saves are here:

Very very close spaceship. Took over Rome with cavs and England with artilleries, but meanwhile the other continent was teching like crazy and couldn't incite war between MM and Asoka. Saved by the internet and the fact that Asoka was teching almost as fast as MM. They were both building last part.

http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/106707/Alexander_AD-1530.CivWarlordsSave

http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/106707/Alexander_AD-1848.CivWarlordsSave

@Dirk1302: If there are some civs backwards (f.e. vassals), other civs are less likely to trade.

Example:
Caesar: Divine Right
Lizzy: Divine Right
Mansa: Plastics, Divine Right
Asoka: Plastics, Divine Right
Me: Fission

... then the game mechanics will allow only Divine Right to be the trade option. Plastics won't be trade option since 60% of civs has not knowledge of Plastics. That's also the argument why vassals suck ...

Wang was Friendly towards me for a short period of time, but then I got some tech from Mansa and I received some 'You have traded with our worst enemy' points. Strange thing was that even when Wang was friendly he not always was willing to trade with me.

I cannot see how could I win from point 1725AD, but I will try.

btw. What I followed is not even Farm Economy. There are more workshops, everything is set to Domination and I cannot see how my marines could break Mech-Infantry ...

1000AD report. Things go slow ...
----------------------------------------------

Binky123:
----------------------

Total cities: 5
Total population: 49
Average population: 9.8
Beakers: 246
Hammers: 55
GP's so far: 5

Cottages: 25
Specialists: 1 (+1 superspecialist)
MostAdvancedTechs: Liberalism, Constitution
CurrentResearch: Printing Press
Civics: Representation, Bureaurocracy, Slavery, Free Religion

Open borders signed with both Lizzy and Caesar. No wars. No other rivals met.

Binky123 spent total 1880 hammers on buildings, 376 on one city and 38.4 on one citizen. Binky123 favours libraries, odeons and theatres.

Snaaty:
----------------------

Total cities: 10
Total population: 48
Average population: 4.8
Beakers: 115
Hammers: 51
GP's so far: 6

Cottages: 6
Specialists: 0
MostAdvancedTechs: Liberalism, Astronomy
CurrentResearch: Nationalism
Civics: Hereditary Rule, Bureaurocracy, Slavery, Free Religion

No foreign trade routes. No wars. One rival met.

Snaaty spent total 2160 hammers on buildings, 216 on one city and 45 on one citizen. Snaaty favours libraries, courthouses and markets

Dirk1302:
----------------------

Total cities: 5
Total population: 44
Average population: 8.8
Beakers: 152
Hammers: 61
GP's so far: 6

Cottages: 11
Specialists: 0
MostAdvancedTechs: Liberalism, Nationalism
CurrentResearch: Astronomy
Civics: Hereditary Rule, Bureaurocracy, Slavery, Free Religion

Open borders signed with both Lizzy and Caesar. No wars. No other rivals met.

Dirk1302 spent total 2170 hammers on buildings, 434 on one city and 49.3 on one citizen. Dirk1302 favours universities, markets and theatres

Jihe:
----------------------

Total cities: 6
Total population: 45
Average population: 7.5
Beakers: 354
Hammers: 41
GP's so far: 7

Cottages: 0
Specialists: 14 (+2 superspecialist)
MostAdvancedTechs: Liberalism, Constitution
CurrentResearch: Chemistry
Civics: Representation, Vassalage, Slavery, Organized Religion

Open borders signed with both Lizzy and Caesar. No wars. One rival met.

Jihe spent total 3560 hammers on buildings, 593 on one city and 79 on one citizen. Jihe favours universities, libraries, courthouses and theatres

Shyuhe:
----------------------

Total cities: 8
Total population: 37
Average population: 4.6
Beakers: 140
Hammers: 74
GP's so far: 7

Cottages: 4
Specialists: 3
MostAdvancedTechs: Education, Philosophy
CurrentResearch: Liberalism
Civics: Hereditary Rule, Bureaurocracy, Slavery, Organizaed religion

Open borders signed with Lizzy. No wars. No other rivals met.

Shyuhe spent total 2790 hammers on buildings, 349 on one city and 75.4 on one citizen. Shyuhe favours libraries, courthouses and markets

Ungy:
----------------------

Total cities: 9
Total population: 47
Average population: 5.2
Beakers: 148
Hammers: 62
GP's so far: 2

Cottages: 19
Specialists: 2
MostAdvancedTechs: Philosophy, Paper
CurrentResearch: Education
Civics: Hereditary Rule, Bureaurocracy, Slavery

Open borders signed with both Lizzy and Caesar. No wars. One rival met.

Ungy spent total 2430 hammers on buildings, 270 on one city and 51.7 on one citizen. Ungy favours libraries, courthouses and markets

Mrchadt:
----------------------

Total cities: 6
Total population: 47
Average population: 7.8
Beakers: 154
Hammers: 62
GP's so far: 7

Cottages: 10
Specialists: 6 (+2 superspecialists)
MostAdvancedTechs: Liberalism, Nationalism
CurrentResearch: -
Civics: Representation, Bureaurocracy, Caste System

Open borders signed with both Lizzy and Caesar. No wars. No other rivals met.

Mrchadt spent total 1330 hammers on buildings, 222 on one city and 28.3 on one citizen. Mrchadt favours libraries and aqueducts

Nullspace:
----------------------

Total cities: 5
Total population: 41
Average population: 8.2
Beakers: 82
Hammers: 52
GP's so far: 9

Cottages: 0
Specialists: 12 (+1 superspecialist)
MostAdvancedTechs: Liberalism, Nationalism
CurrentResearch: Theology
Civics: Hereditary Rule, Caste System

Open borders signed with both Lizzy and Caesar. No wars. No other rivals met.

Nullspace spent total 1630 hammers on buildings, 326 on one city and 39.8 on one citizen. Nullspace favours libraries and forges

Giaur:
----------------------

Total cities: 8
Total population: 59
Average population: 7.4
Beakers: 158
Hammers: 79
GP's so far: 9

Cottages: 6
Specialists: 15 (+3 superspecialist)
MostAdvancedTechs: Printing Press, Education
CurrentResearch: Drama
Civics: Hereditary Rule, Bureaurocracy, Caste System, Pacifism

Open borders signed with both Lizzy and Caesar. No wars. 3 rivals met.

Giaur 2280 spent total 2160 hammers on buildings, 285 on one city and 38.7 on one citizen. Giaur favours libraries and forges

I hope there are no many errors. There will be second part. Overview of most advanced city.

btw. Soon there will be no pictures since the space of my account is shrinking. :[

edit: let me know the page, where I can get free ftp acount ...

Excellent write up again, thanks for that. The thing I notice is that I have spent so few hammers. I am also making aquaducts which don't seem to be needed. Forges, libraries, markets, courthouses and universities would be more useful I think.
I got behind a little as I was mistakenly running pacifism with no religion, doh!, I think that cost me a bit. I also missed the sheep/deer city spot c) which has 4 stars. I think my inexperience showed when I made too much early military for defence because I didn't know that england and rome wouldn't attack.
Lots of room for improvement, thanks for all who posted games for comparison.

@Dirk1302: If there are some civs backwards (f.e. vassals), other civs are less likely to trade.

Example:
Caesar: Divine Right
Lizzy: Divine Right
Mansa: Plastics, Divine Right
Asoka: Plastics, Divine Right
Me: Fission

... then the game mechanics will allow only Divine Right to be the trade option. Plastics won't be trade option since 60% of civs has not knowledge of Plastics. That's also the argument why vassals suck ...

Wang was Friendly towards me for a short period of time, but then I got some tech from Mansa and I received some 'You have traded with our worst enemy' points. Strange thing was that even when Wang was friendly he not always was willing to trade with me.

I cannot see how could I win from point 1725AD, but I will try.

btw. What I followed is not even Farm Economy. There are more workshops, everything is set to Domination and I cannot see how my marines could break Mech-Infantry ... Ok that explains why trade was slow in your game, in my game only Augustus was baxkward, Brennus was Vassal to Mansa and was given all his tech.

Domination is difficult in your game, you have a lot of land though, if you succeed in whipping the necessary infra you might be alble to outtech them?, you've got +/- 120 years to do that, not easy.

@ Giaur: again, great writeup

...

@ all:

I think the main problem in mid-game is, to keep expanding AND keep your research running (and this game in fact developed more like an immortal game concerning research).

A basic rule applies here:
More cities = stronger position

Since I´m a builder, my usual way of doing so is, to block of land and settle like crazy (can be seen in 1000 AD save) or to go to an early/midgame (short) war to gain enough land. I don´t open bordes UNTILL all is settled. This kripples reseach but it is worth it (no matter how deep the hole is, you plunge your economy into, it is STILL worth it). When all is settled, an immediate switch to TE (=Trade economy), open borders with everybody and bribing everybody to free market. Best to favour these buildings then: gren/harbour/lib
and to build as many cities costal as possible (only my innitial blocking cities were inland)

TE will help you keep up with the techdealers quite easy in midgame

Around 1500 AD another civic switch is usually required:

bureau/slavery to national/caste (I normally don´t bother with emancip)

When you now set all your cities to specialize on food/production/research (no micro is required) you will easily keep up with the techclub also in endgame without any cottages (except the early-ones).

Btw. I still think it is a rumour, that TE/FE looses strenght in endgame and isn´t competetive in spacerace (I never bothered building the internet in this game for example):lol:

@ Giaur:

when you are dependent on techtrades, better to help weaker civs. I gifted about 10-15 techs to Rome/England to help them keeping up (But this my also be only a part of my personal playstile... ...TE/FE also depends on MANY BIG AI cities... ...so helping up the week ones helps yourself)

...

And I needed also one of the 2 aluminium Rome had for my Apollo, because I had no aluminium... ...and they were still about 5-6 techs away from discovering it;)

I played on a little while, I was more sloppy then usual as I don't think I have a good chance to win. My plan was to get to internet and then use state economy to boost my production.
The problem came from the great war on the other continent, Mansa came to me to be my vassel, I thought that if I accepted the wars would stop and I would have a good trading partner as he had been up to then. But, no, when I accepted him I declared war on all the civs he was at war with. Maybe I need to be at war with him myself for other wars against him to stop, as when peace is declared on your behalf when one civ vasselizes the civ whos land you are taking through war.

You got the Asoka and Wang to destroy MM ?, i tried that he whole game, gifting Asoka and Wang quite a few good techs, didn't help at all, peace was always declared some 10 turns later and no one got hurt.

@ Dirk:

There is a trick when bribing wars:

I bribed Mansa 2 times (I think) to attack Ash, who was stronger militarywise but not that advanced. The wars lasted each about 10 turns, like in your game. But Ash was quite pissed with Mansa after that:lol:

Since Mansa was the agressor and Ash was that much stronger, Mansa always stopped invading and took first chance of making peace...

Then I bribed Ash to attack Mansa... ...difference is, that when the stronger nation is the aggressor, they won´t accept peace untill they have quite big losses or captured some cities... ...which ended with Mansa vassalized (during the war, I checked on them quite regulary, and Mansa had the message concerning peace with Ash: ...would love to, but you have to...;))

I didn't do anything they did it themselves. I think it could have happened because there were 6 of the 7 religions on their continent. As I said earlier, MM declared on wang when he was Asokas vassel and therefore Asoka and Brennus. It was a huge war lasting for over a 100 years, cities taken and raised by all. I was trading with both sides getting good tech. But they kept asking me to join in. So not good for relations, but it allowed me not to get too far behind in tech.

@ Dirk:

There is a trick when bribing wars:

I bribed Mansa 2 times (I think) to attack Ash, who was stronger militarywise but not that advanced. The wars lasted each about 10 turns, like in your game. But Ash was quite pissed with Mansa after that:lol:

Since Mansa was the agressor and Ash was that much stronger, Mansa always stopped invading and took first chance of making peace...

Then I bribed Ash to attack Mansa... ...difference is, that when the stronger nation is the aggressor, they won´t accept peace untill they have quite big losses or captured some cities... ...which ended with Mansa vassalized (during the war, I checked on them quite regulary, and Mansa had the message concerning peace with Ash: ...would love to, but you have to...;)) Yes that's a good explanation, i more or less knew that. Problem in my game was that MM was stronger than Asoka and Wang. And while i sometimes had a tech that Asoka or Wang didn't have i was never able to bribe MM. That Asoka guy is quite bribable by the way, far better than Ghandi. I got Wang to declare only once, this guy is really a coward.

I'm playing an immortal game now which is going very well (11 cities 600 ad without going completely broke). I first thought about a domination win to get revenge on AI's for this game :mad: . Maybe i change my mind and build an economic powerhouse using the setup you had in this game as a template.

This would mean staying friends with Monty who's the only one left on my conti though.

Edit: i wonder how i can remove the angry icon from my post title or how it got there in the first place?

@Snaaty: I am gifting techs sometimes to civs who are very behind in tech. But in my game Caesar, who was my vassal, was researching tech every 40 turns I guess.

And I bribed Wang to war with Mansa. There were two reasons. Malinese and Koreans stopped trading with each other. And the second: I was autentically furious that Mansa vassalized Lizzy first (and declared war on me). Soon Mansa vassalized Wang too :]

@Dirk: I am not sure I have those 120 years. My game is quite advanced I think. There was lot of tech-trading from my part. I rely on this strategy. It's helpful, but man has to count with the fact, the time is running out ...

I can't see myself winning this game. The whole game just played out really awkwardly for me. I felt like I was doing something wrong every time I hit enter :)

Here's a save though. I don't think I'm going to finish it.

You are right, I think I made a mistake not settling my land, the roman and english cities took to long to contribute to research.

@ Giaur: again, great writeup

...

@ all:

I think the main problem in mid-game is, to keep expanding AND keep your research running (and this game in fact developed more like an immortal game concerning research).

A basic rule applies here:
More cities = stronger position

Since I´m a builder, my usual way of doing so is, to block of land and settle like crazy (can be seen in 1000 AD save) or to go to an early/midgame (short) war to gain enough land. I don´t open bordes UNTILL all is settled. This kripples reseach but it is worth it (no matter how deep the hole is, you plunge your economy into, it is STILL worth it). When all is settled, an immediate switch to TE (=Trade economy), open borders with everybody and bribing everybody to free market. Best to favour these buildings then: gren/harbour/lib
and to build as many cities costal as possible (only my innitial blocking cities were inland)

TE will help you keep up with the techdealers quite easy in midgame

Around 1500 AD another civic switch is usually required:

bureau/slavery to national/caste (I normally don´t bother with emancip)

When you now set all your cities to specialize on food/production/research (no micro is required) you will easily keep up with the techclub also in endgame without any cottages (except the early-ones).

Btw. I still think it is a rumour, that TE/FE looses strenght in endgame and isn´t competetive in spacerace (I never bothered building the internet in this game for example):lol:

Things are going better. Short story ...


Lizzy was vassalized by Musa and he declared war on me ...

http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/70897/vassal0000.JPG



Bribed Wang to war against Musa. Musa vassalized Wang ...

http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/70897/deal0000.JPG



The price of peace ...

http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/70897/peace0000.JPG



Bribed Musa to war against Asoka ...

http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/70897/some_luck_at_last0000.JPG



After several turns Asoka lost half of his units and 2 cities (could be more). He capitulated to me and he is pleased ... Lizzy was destroyed.

http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/70897/capitulation0000.JPG




Now I use Mutineer's trick, I use Asoka as shield against Musa. Tanks will be fighting from land, while marines will be attacking from see - from very different direction. I hope Musa will break. In that time I'll try to finish Brennus too. I am afraid of Asoka more cause he is very advanced too. It would be a shame if Asoka (my vassal) build spaceship. It's 1806AD.

Second part of 1000AD writeup will be ready tomorrow morning.
Please post 1500-1700AD save no later than on Sunday.

My game is going rather terribly. I'm too small to tech quickly, and it's getting too late to expand militarily because the game will be over before captured cities become profitable. Mansa Musa and Asoka love each other and are dominating the tech race.

It looks like Snaaty has a very good strategy for this map. I didn't expand enough in the early game. My usual strategy is to war for enough land, and I thought Alexander would be good for this. But when I discovered that there were only two other civs on our continent, I wanted both of them to be good trading partners so I didn't attack. Then I switched to caste system and teched to liberalism, then representation, then biology, so I never got around to expanding. Also, I suck at SE without spiritual.

Here's a save from that period.

I had decided diplo at that point, to win space I would have needed to get a war going on the other continent earlier as I was maybe 5 turns off the pace without.

Actually upload problems please use 1780 save (post #62)--thanks

delete post

Capital:
-----------------------------------

Binky123:
Capital has Academy, The Oracle.

http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/70897/binky20000.JPG



Snaaty:
Capital has Academy, The Oracle.

http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/70897/snaaty0000.JPG



Jihe:
Capital has Academy, GL, OU.

http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/70897/jihe0000.JPG



Dirk1302:
Capital has Academy, GL, NE.

http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/70897/dirk0000.JPG



Shyuhe:
Capital has Academy, GL, Parthenon.

http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/70897/shyuhe0000.JPG



Ungy:
Capital has Academy, HE.

http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/70897/ungy30000.JPG



Mrchadt:
Capital has Academy, GL, NE.

http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/70897/mrchadt0000.JPG



Nullspace:
Capital has Academy, GL, NE.

http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/70897/nullspace_0000.JPG



Giaur:
Capital has Academy, HE, CoN and Parthenon.

http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/70897/giaur20000.JPG

what is CoN?

@Shyuhe: Church of Nativity

I made my first diplo win :) . I had easier because my vassals voted for me.

edit: I did once diplo in Civ3 and the scenario was excatly the same: World War.

I like the idea of comparing how everyones capital is doing. Jihe is doing well there with 257 from here alone. Having oxford built helps I guess.

1500-1700AD Writeup:
-----------------------------

9 players participated in this session. But there were some problems AGAIN with opening saves. Ungy did not attached 1500-1700AD save and I could not open Nullspace savegame. Sorry for that. I guess there won't be next open game from my part, unless some help/advice will come. So for now 7 saves are summarized.

@Nullspace: It would be great if you made writeup of your own save and PM me, but I realize of RL preasure.

Here we go ...

When summarizing buildings I do not take into acount cities in Civil Disorder. When summarizing resources I do not add: marble, horse and iron. When summarizing farms I also add unimproved tiles like grasslands, jungle, plains. Shame on you.

Giaur:
-------------------------------

Basic info:
Year: 1590AD
Total cities: 20
Total population: 233
Beakers: 887 without ww and losing coins
Hammers: 307
GP's so far: 19

Economy:
Cottages: 15
Farms: 35
Cottage percentage: 30%
Specialists: 34
MAT: Electricity, Assembly Line
CR: Radio
Giaur favours farms, mines and cottages.
Giaur runs Representation, Bureaurocracy, Emancipation, State property and Org. religion.

Army:
Giaur has weak military. Giaur favours Infantry and Cavalry.

Diplo&Trade:
3 civs are pleased with Giaur, 2 civs are cautious and 1 civ is furious.
Giaur possess coal and stone. Giaur is at war with Lizzy now. Giaur declared war on Caesar once and he is Giaur's vassal now.

Buildings:
Giaur spent total 10.1k hammers on buildings, 600 on every city and 52 hammers on one citizen. Giaur favours forges, universities, libraries and courthouses.



Mrchadt:
-------------------------------

Basic info:
Year: 1500AD
Total cities: 11
Total population: 91
Beakers: 460 without ww and losing coins
Hammers: 101
GP's so far: 9

Economy:
Cottages: 17
Farms: 12
Cottage percentage: 59%
Specialists: 4
MAT: Steam power, Steel
CR: Assembly Line
Mrchadt favours cottages and mines.
Mrchadt runs Representation, Free speach, Slavery, Free market and Free religion.

Army:
Mrchadt has quite strong military. Mrchadt favours Grenadiers and Muskets.

Diplo&Trade:
1 civ is pleased with Mrchadt, 4 civs are cautious and 1 civ is annoyed.
Peace now. Mrchadt declared war on Caesar once.

Buildings:
Mrchadt spent total 5.1k hammers on buildings, 510 on every city and 65 hammers on one citizen. Mrchadt favours universities, courthouses, libraries and theatres.



Snaaty:
-------------------------------

Basic info:
Year: 1450AD
Total cities: 13
Total population: 103
Beakers: 638 without ww and losing coins
Hammers: 127
GP's so far: 7

Economy:
Cottages: 5
Farms: 56
Cottage percentage: 8%
Specialists: 16
MAT: Biology, Democracy
CR: Steam power
Snaaty favours farms and mines.
Snaaty runs Representation, Bureaurocracy, Slavery, Free market and Free religion.

Army:
Snaaty has no military.

Diplo&Trade:
5 civs is pleased with Snaaty, 1 civ is cautious.
Peace now. No invasions.

Buildings:
Snaaty spent total 8.9k hammers on buildings, 690 on every city and 87 hammers on one citizen. Snaaty favours universities, markets, courthouses, libraries and banks.



Shyuhe:
-------------------------------

Basic info:
Year: 1500AD
Total cities: 13
Total population: 94
Beakers: 368 without ww and losing coins
Hammers: 116
GP's so far: 13

Economy:
Cottages: 12
Farms: 27
Cottage percentage: 31%
Specialists: 11
MAT: Chemistry, Constitution
CR: Democracy
Shyuhe favours farms, mines and cottages.
Shyuhe runs Representation, Nationhood, Slavery, Free market and Free religion.

Army:
Shyuhe has quite strong military. Shyuhe favours Cavalry.

Diplo&Trade:
3 civs are pleased with Shyuhe, 2 civs are cautious. Peace now. Shyuhe declared war on Caesar once.

Buildings:
Shyuhe spent total 6.4k hammers on buildings, 490 on every city and 68 hammers on one citizen. Shyuhe favours forges, universities, courthouses and markets.



Dirk1302:
-------------------------------

Basic info:
Year: 1695AD
Total cities: 15
Total population: 154
Beakers: 877 without ww and losing coins
Hammers: 134
GP's so far: 9

Economy:
Cottages: 29
Farms: 34
Cottage percentage: 46%
Specialists: 4
MAT: Electricity, Biology
CR: Radio
Dirk1302 favours farms, cottages and mines.
Dirk1302 runs Representation, Free speach, Slavery, Free market and Free religion.

Army:
Dirk1302 has strong military. Dirk1302 favours rifles, cavalry and cannons.

Diplo&Trade:
4 civs are pleased with Dirk1302, 1 civs is cautious, 1 civ is annoyed. Peace now. Dirk1302 declared war on Caesar twice and Caesar is Dirk's vassal now.

Buildings:
Dirk1302 spent total 7.6k hammers on buildings, 510 on every city and 50 hammers on one citizen. Dirk1302 favours universities, libraries, theatres and markets.



Jihe:
-------------------------------

Basic info:
Year: 1530AD
Total cities: 15
Total population: 122
Beakers: 654 without ww and losing coins
Hammers: 132
GP's so far: 11

Economy:
Cottages: 13
Farms: 36
Cottage percentage: 26%
Specialists: 17
MAT: Artillery, Biology
CR: Electricity
Jihe favours farms and mines.
Jihe runs Representation, Nationhood, Slavery, Free market and Theocracy.

Army:
Jihe has quite strong military. Jihe favours cannons and rifles.

Diplo&Trade:
1 civ is friendly with Jihe, 3 civs are pleased, 1 civs is cautious and 1 civ is furious. Jihe possess copper. Peace now. Jihe declared war on Caesar once. I do not remember if he was vassalized.

Buildings:
Jihe spent total 7.1k hammers on buildings, 540 on every city and 67 hammers on one citizen. Jihe favours universities, libraries and theatres.



Binky123:
-------------------------------

Basic info:
Year: 1525AD
Total cities: 9
Total population: 100
Beakers: 680 without ww and losing coins
Hammers: 196
GP's so far: 6

Economy:
Cottages: 29
Farms: 2
Cottage percentage: 94%
Specialists: 3
MAT: Physics, Democracy
CR: Electricity
Binky123 favours cottages, workshops and windmills.
Binky123 runs Universal Suffrage, Free speach, Emancipation, State property and Free religion.

Army:
Binky123 has no military.

Diplo&Trade:
4 civs are pleased with Binky, 2 civs are cautious. Peace now. No invasions.

Buildings:
Binky123 spent total 6.8k hammers on buildings, 760 on every city and 68 hammers on one citizen. Binky123 favours universities, forges and libraries

Please post the final save no later than Wednesday.

Check Snaaty save. He has very impressive infra (many buildings) in 1450AD.

@ Giaur:

Again, great writeup

...

@ all:

1450 AD was the year, when I switched from builder (extreme-whipping) to growth and science:

Bureau/slavery to nationalism/caste

Good write up information again Giaur.
Here's something I did so I could veiw the data more easily.

@ Giaur:I am willing to do something similar for the next open game if you want to do another one.

http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/110529/civ.JPG

How about another deity game?

Allied game. 2 teams. 4 (1 human + 3 AI's) vs 4 AI's.

I am just testing it ...

That sounds like an interesting idea... The key will be to feed your obsolete troops to an AI to upgrade for cheap - it speeds up a lot of things :)

I'd prefer a more standard game myself, i feel there is enough to be discovered there, still it's your choice, i might give it a try.

There are 5 saves which reached the end of the game ...

Snaaty:
--------------------
Year: 1840
Victory: SpaceRace
Cities: 13
Beakers: 2020
Hammers: 433
GP's: 23
Civics: Rep, N, CS, FM, FR


Shyuhe:
--------------------
Year: 1846
Victory: Loss
Cities: 13
Beakers: 1450
Hammers: 530
GP's: 19
Civics: Rep, FS, E, FM, FR


Jihe:
--------------------
Year: 1848
Victory: SpaceRace
Cities: 25
Beakers: 2000
Hammers: 907
GP's: 25
Civics: Rep, FS, E, SP, OR


Ungy:
--------------------
Year: 1780
Victory: Diplo
Cities: 11
Beakers: 1570
Hammers: 282
GP's: 9
Civics: Rep, FS, E, FM, FR


Giaur:
--------------------
Year: 1864
Victory: Diplo
Cities: more than 25
Beakers: 510
Hammers: 1303
GP's: 23
Civics: PS, N, E, SP, FR

Sorry for that writeup. It's short, but some RL problems appeared. Noone this time won by conquest ...

Giaur-
thanks for doing this. Interesting to compare people's games.

Next OpenGame will be militaristic one. 2 allies and 5-6 opponents. Immortal difficulty. Permanent War. Standard or large map. Map - pangea.

The leader: we will see (my vote goes for H.Capac or Mansa)

The problem no.1. I do not know if it's playable. I guess we will see while playing.

Industrious is important one. Certain wonders built by us apply also to our allies. Pyramids of course not, but Collosus, Great Lighthouse yes. No more lightbulbing. Now to get Philo we need to burn 3 scientists, because every tech known by us is automatically given to our allies (and techs are more expensive)

So several things are to be disscused:
1) leader (hope Ind or Imp)
2) allies (hope Mansa Musa and Wang Kon)
3) Map size (standard or large)
4) difficulty (hope Immortal)

One penalty I want to add is to deny our right to convince ally to change research. When having 2 allies ... current research is usually dtetermined by voting. Example:
We) currency
Mansa) currency
Wang Kon) priesthood
Usually Wang Kon changes research next turn to currency

I think this way Liberalism could not be won so easily. Of course all beakers (ours and allies) are added, but techs are more expensive. There is plenty other staff, like founding religion etc.

are we setting it up so that it's a straight 3 v. 5-6 game? Or just a 3 v. mass of AI on permanent war? I realize a standard map may be tight for land with these settings but with low sea levels, I think you can fight 8-9 civs on it (I'd prefer to stay away from large maps as the late game will be a nightmare).

@Shyuhe: 3 vs 3+3. Permanent war. 3 teams where 2 are turned against us. I guess it will be Emperor, not Immortal since 6 opponents on that level could be mean. Also I am for turning barbs off. 1000BC and barb sword appeared in my recent testing game. Great start is required since 2 enemy teams have signed open borders between them. We have trade between allied civs, but it acts like no-foreign trade.

There will be no planning thread. Write your objections here ...

There are some problems in balancing map. Enemy AI's run at 90% research, while we and allies 50-60%. It's all because there are no foreign trade routes.

I believe we need some practise. Here is the save: initial one and 1AD one. Next chalenge will be with similar settings. 2 allies and 2 enemy teams with 2 civs in each team. Beware of Caesar and his praets.

edit: But maybe Monarch ...

edit2: You can see how stupid the AI's are. They change to representation no matter it is harmful.