This is the thread for the Department of Trade's 2nd term. The first term can be found here (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=19183)

This thread of for all and any discussions relating to official affairs of trade. Updates will feature the status of our trading partners, and potential trade resource accquasistions.

My first duties of the new term will be to select our new Deputy and Chat rep., as well as assess our trade situation.

Leader: Chieftess
Deputy: Zur
Chat Rep: allhailIndia


Our Mission:

1 - Domestic Trade

In coordination with the Domestic and Military Departments, we will assess the needs of trade resources to keep our citizens happy, while determining the needs of our allies.

2 - Foriegn Trade

a) To avoid trading to civs items which may be passed to enemies to their benefit.
b) To prevent enemies from trading critical resources with other countries.
c) It may be desirable to disrupt potentially hostile trades, especially "Resource Triangles/Polygons" (where multilateral trades occur) or encourage cordial ones.
d) Clarification will be sought with the Foreign Affairs Department over our trading stance towards each country depending on current and future desired relations with that country.

3 - Acquisistion of Resources
iIn the event we need any resources to keep our citizens content, or for our defense, we will consult with the Foriegn and Military Departments.

4 - General Matters of Trade
If the voice of the citizens and citizen groups are strong enough, we may consider pursuing the desired resource.

PM's and announcements (here) have been sent for the two positions.

The Trade Departments' next task is to assess the current resources and who owns them, as well as our current/potential trading partners. A general log will follow.

[ Assessment Complete! ]

(note, I will have to sift through the threads to find when we acquired maps and from whom - specifically, territory maps, as that will show the road systems. If anyone is willing to search for those dates, feel free to do so).

Chieftess,

I would like to apply for the job of Deputy Trade Minister. I didn't think I could commit the time to be a full-fledged minister. In the games I play, I actively seek to obtain a diverse set of resources to keep the citizens happy. I also believe in the long term denial of strategic resources to foes to retain a competitive edge and am an avid fan of the tech/resource-trading strategy. I have played several games in Civ1 and am tackling Emperor & Diety games on Civ3 now. I have also attended several turn chats and keep up to date with the strategy forum. I pledge to advance the cause for Pheonetica to acquire more resources to become a wealthy empire!

Zur

Here is the assessment for resources in our land, and trade/strategic resources of other nations. The reason I included strategic was because those resources can be "denied" in a war (pillaging roads), which could cripple other nations, but this is for the Military Department to look further into.

The file is in MS-Word format, but if you can't view it, it should be viewable in Wordpad.

Congratulations, Zur, on becoming Trade Deputy! The Trade Deputy will also be representing the Trade Department in the chat room.

Thank you, Chieftess. I will do my best to ensure that the views of the trade department are brought across to the cabinet.

allhailIndia is now our Chat Representative.
Welcome aboard!

1. Discussing when any one of us can represent the department for the turn chat.

2. Formulating plans for possible future trades, and trade strategies. (still in the works)

3. Resource Assessment to be updated

4. Creation of global and national maps. The global (about 2400x1800 zoomed out - XGA size) will have national and city borders, and possibly resource locations. The territory map (about 1600x1200 zoomed in) map have our provinces, unit locations, landmarks (I'll need input for this), and possibly worked tiles for cities.

(Yes, It'll be zipped, and probably reduced colors. Otherwise, it'd REALLY do a number on the bandwidth!)

I would like the input of the trade department on my proposal to build harbors to connect the Egyptian conquests to the rest of our empire, and in the process open trade with the other nations. Please check out the post in the Domestic Thread (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?s=&postid=276091#post276091).

Chieftess, please post your vote in the Council Vote for adoption of Provincial Borders. (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?s=&postid=275382#post275382)

1. Marketplaces -

We need marketplaces to ensure the happiness of our people in this republic. We are threatened by a possible war with China, and need to sustain our peoples' fears. Marketplaces will provide a place to buy and sell our excess luxeries, as well as to add money to the treasury. We should focus marketplaces on our main core cities (and some are already being built)

2. Roads -

Our priorty should be to connect our new lands, and to the luxeries that they hold. Building roads to other empires is secondary, as some of our bitter rivals stand in the way. Roads will also produce more commerce in our cities.

3. Harbors -

In the event that roads are too time consuming to build (such as trading with a nation on the opposite side of the continent, or building through jungles and mountains), harbors will provide a quicker, and more readily accessable trade routes, without the possibilty of trade routes being severed by pillaged roads.

Originally posted by Shaitan
Chieftess, please post your vote in the Council Vote for adoption of Provincial Borders. (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?s=&postid=275382#post275382)

Wow, you were up early. :)

Trade Deptartment vote submitted.

1. I have compiled an Excel table of potential & active trades. This does not include frequently changing items like maps and workers. This will be updated as the game progresses. A few comments:

a) We have potentially 3 lux exports & 2 lux imports if connected, so we can generate trade surplus. More if we connect up unconnected ones in our cultural border.

Edit: We have unconnected: 1 each of incense & spice, 5 each of horses & iron and 5 ivory, so we could potentially have 17 exports! This should generate a *nice* revenue stream to cover any expenditure on rushing harbours & even workers.

b) We do not have invention despite many civs having it. Why is this so since we have GL?

c) We do not have ROP with India and can renegotiate peace.

Previous atempt at attachment did not work. 2nd attempt:

Zur - maybe the question should be "why are we studying what everyone else is studying when we have the GL".

The Zulus and Romans also have a harbor, but both are not connected.

The map is well under way, and I'm about 25% done. It's turning out quite well, minus a few minor "artifacts". (1 pixel lines that are a shade lighter in a scant few places).

1. To be the dominant trading power (I presume this is what we are striving for), we can exploit the fact that we have split the pangea nicely down the middle and Western countries will have to go thro us to trade with Eastern countries, and vice versa. We can retain this advantage at least until ocean trade is invented.

2. Greece already has a head start in trade due to its central location and superior infrastructure. Its trading partners are Aztecs and India.

3. Posted by Shaitan in Dom. Dept:I would be willing to postpone Foreign Affair's plans for a chat turn if Trade can guarantee a deal will be struck with China.

Chieftess, this would require at least a harbour connected to Fox Nest since Abydos is not connected to Beijing. Roads on the 2 mountains & 1 plains will not be sufficient. Also, your sums in Dom. Dept. thread did not include the 4 foreign workers near El-Amarna.

4. We currently have 23 foreign + 1 local workers. I propose using the 4 workers (and more if necessary) to connect Ex-Egypt instead of 284 gold on El-Amarna harbour, but Domestic Dept. would need to check the sums on this. The next step would be to connect Elephantine to Delphi to export Ivory to Greece.

Edit: this trade link to Greece is important due to Greece's central location as they can link to other civs using our ROP.

5. I also propose we rush the harbour in Shai to trade incense to China to prevent their emminent attack. This may also allow exports of Ivory to Greece but is unlikely due to lack of clear water passage thro ROPs.

6. IMO more workers should be built since we are now in Republic, but this depends on Domestic & Military Depts' priorities.

The Zulus and Romans also have a harbor, but both are not connected.

Noted.

High Bandwidth Alert! :)

Here's a screenshot of what it looks like so far. Once the map is up, screenshots can be taken of updated areas and pasted (carefully) onto the map.

I dont think that pic was supposed to do that :) I get the idea though Chieftess, nice job!

Here is the latest update which includes total strategic resources (connected & not connected) for each civ, incorporating info from Chieftess' trade document.

I am unable to fully determine the posession of lux resources for each civ due to a scrolling problem in my save game. It would be greatly appreciated if anyone has any info on this.

Originally posted by Zur
Chieftess, this would require at least a harbour connected to Fox Nest since Abydos is not connected to Beijing. Roads on the 2 mountains & 1 plains will not be sufficient. Also, your sums in Dom. Dept. thread did not include the 4 foreign workers near El-Amarna.

I didn't include those yet, since I didn't know how long it would take them. (I was going to start a new game to see how long it took).


4. We currently have 23 foreign + 1 local workers. I propose using the 4 workers (and more if necessary) to connect Ex-Egypt instead of 284 gold on El-Amarna harbour, but Domestic Dept. would need to check the sums on this. The next step would be to connect Elephantine to Delphi to export Ivory to Greece.

this depends on Domestic & Military Depts' priorities.

That's what I was trying to figure how.. how we could use all of the workers efficiently. Definately roads to our closest neighbors.

Originally posted by Immortal
I dont think that pic was supposed to do that :) I get the idea though Chieftess, nice job!

That was the Child-Window in Paint Shop Pro. :)
It's a work-in-progress.

Originally posted by Zur
Here is the latest update which includes total strategic resources (connected & not connected) for each civ, incorporating info from Chieftess' trade document.

I am unable to fully determine the posession of lux resources for each civ due to a scrolling problem in my save game. It would be greatly appreciated if anyone has any info on this.

You can still "scroll" by clicking anywhere in the map, or the mini map. Also, some resources are beneath cities.

. (I was going to start a new game to see how long it took).

I would be surprised if this info couldn't be found in the forums. It is so like civfanatics to write a calculator or something for the turns taken, taking into account industrial civ, foreign, government type etc. You might find some luck here which may save you some time.

We need to decide soon what to do if there is a turn chat tonite. Preferbly instructions should be posted in the "chat instructions" thread in advance.

If we have a harbour:

1. What to trade to whom? We can currently trade incense & ivory to China & ivory to Greece. I propose incense to China & ivory to Greece immediately after we get the harbour.

Edit: We can also trade India spices or ivory for silk. I propose spices for silk.

2. How much will they pay?
China has 227 gold & at least 30g/t
Greece has 240 gold & at least 13g/t

We should get as much up front gold from China as we can. The deal will likely suck since they are hostile. I suggest we accept if they offer 100 gold. (is this too low?)

I suggest hedging our bets with Greece with 50:50 gold vs. g/t.
Accept if they offer 150 gold total (too low? but better than no sale?)

NB. exchange rate for Greece (at least): 1g/t ~ 18 gold. (1g/t to us = 19 gold ; 1g/t to them = 17 gold)

(the above g/t deals aren't against foreign policy are they?) I remember reading a post (can't find it now) about not giving g/t deals, but am not sure about receiving g/t deals.

Edit: We should trade 1 for 1 (or better) with India.

After thousands of years, the dream of our trader forefathers has finally become a reality! Trade routes to vast new civilizations are being built which may promise untold riches for daring merchants and Pheonatica herself! :queen: <--Pheonatician Princess

The Trade Department may need a budget soon since we are nearing the point where trade deals become possible. :smoke:
Of course, we hope to generate positive cashflow after initial invesments and with the support of our merchants. :cooool:

Zur,

How can you tell how much they will pay per turn? If we are not yet connected, how can you test this? Just curious, I have never been able to tell for sure without proposing deals first.

Originally posted by Justus II
Zur,

How can you tell how much they will pay per turn? If we are not yet connected, how can you test this? Just curious, I have never been able to tell for sure without proposing deals first.
Zur's figures weren't how much they'll pay, he was telling us how much they have.

Thx, Shaitan. I don't think it's possible to know in advance their offer. It's part of the fun of Civ3! ;) The above are my guestimates.

OK, but how do you know how much gold per turn they have?

I hope that, since we have all of the resources we need, and a good number of luxuries, the trade department will actually increase our budget and not need one of its own. In a way, all of our excess luxuries and resources are the budget of the trade department. However, should you need a small amount of gold/turn or gold, let me know, and we will try to work something out. I would like one more luxury.....

Justus: OK, but how do you know how much gold per turn they have?

Put anything of ours on the table, then look at how much g/t they wanna give. If advisor says,"I doubt.." then they have that amt. of g/t. If advisor says,"They'll never accept..." then they may or may not have that amt.

Eyrei: I would like one more luxury.....

Me too. India has silk (but buying from them may or may not be economical). This is a reason why I am for rushing 1 harbour immediately.

Originally posted by Zur
Me too. India has silk (but buying from them may or may not be economical). This is a reason why I am for rushing 1 harbour immediately. [/B]

Same reason here. Rushing the harbor (even if atleast one) will open up trade possibilities.

Originally posted by Chieftess


Same reason here. Rushing the harbor (even if atleast one) will open up trade possibilities.

I would prefer building one, without rushing, in Shailonegha. It will be done soon enough, I believe.

I think there's an unconnected insence in the Americas, yet.

I am currently leading an expedition of Pheonatica's finest explorers, warriors and diplomats to count the resources in the known world. :viking:

A table of our findings has been sealed in a scroll using the most enduring Pheonatician wax and sent towards the palace in Fox Nest with a trustworthy carrier pigeon for Pheonatica's leaders to analyse.

The table includes a breakdown of resources for each civ and possible trades.

My first glance of the data reveals that we have potentially 3 imports (silk, fur, gems) and 7 exports counting overlaps (1 incense, 3 spices, 2 ivory, 2 horses but only 1 to Romans), giving 4 nett exports. We need to decide what to trade with whom and for how much. IMO the timing is perfect because the Great Library will be expiring soon and we will need to up the science rate.

Analyse away! :D

(If you spot any errors, pls. send the carrier pigeon back to me with a message and I will deal the relevant person in my party appropriately :mad: )

Just for your info from the History/Stats department.

There is

2 Horse near Washington(1) and Philadelphia(1)

3 Iron near Civinatoria(1) Elephantine(1) and New York(1)

1 Dye near Civinatoria

2 Ivory near Memphis (Both)

1 Incense near San Fransico

All of these resources are NOT connected to anything and are not being exploited. Nor are they registering on the trade advisors screen.

The Trade Department is aggressively working on trade deals with Greece and Rome. Many traders have come to our lands willing to pay top dollar (err, what *is* our currency called? :)) for our resources. This is how I propose the Greco-Roman trades, as well as other trade options:

Note: These are the max offers. Follow up on the Greece and Rome trades first. Others are optional.

Greece -

Ivory --> 10 GPT, 9 gold upfront

Then trade world maps immediately (same screen) for only 2 gold.

Rome -

Horses --> 15 GPT, 3 gold upfront

*NOTE: Rome is at war with the Babylonians. Except for horses, it will take them 10 turns to reach Babylon through the rugged terrain (and through the Aztec homelands).

China
Incense or Ivory --> 116 gold (150 in treasury)

India
Ivory --> WM, 17 gold (entire treasury)

Aztecs
Incense or Ivory --> 2 GPT, 30 gold
or
Incense or Ivory --> 36 gold (entire treasury)

Iroquois
Incense or Spices --> WM, 5 gold (entire treasury)


Zulus (too poor for viable trade. They want too many resources and gold for silks. They seem desperate.)
Incense, Spice or Ivory --> WM, 2 gold (entire treasury)

I like the first 3 options. Excellent research, Chieftess & Zur!

Rome will also give:

Spices --> 6 GPT
or
Spices --> WP, 3GPT, 30 gold
or
Spices --> 4GPT, 35 gold

The horses deal with rome will do us well, the extra disposable income will make it far easier to balance out our science output once education is discovered. We will need the extra gold until we can figure out a happy balance between science taxes and luxuries.

Preliminary Trade for next turn chat:

We can trade spice to the Iroquios for the Printing Press, 3 GPT, and 20 gold up front.

!!:goodjob: :goodjob: :goodjob: RIGHT ON!:goodjob: :goodjob: !!

I read a post saying that Trade Dept. has 192 gold. Is this correct or is the budget still under discussion?

I think trade has 60 gold but have asked eyrei for clarification in the budget thread.

I am not sure at this time who would pay for any techs that are purchased as the NSD has no gold.

I do see that the trade department may acquire the printing press without having to spend gold and I applaud this iniative.

I would also like to thank Chieftess for running the last turn chat and want to add that she did an excellent job.:goodjob:

Trades -

Iroquois

Spice --> Printing Press, 3GPT, 56 gold up front (entire treasury!)

Roads and Cities

- Suggestions

Build a road connecting the following:

(Note: much of these were not connected due to the "War Traffic" that went on in the last century, as well as the need for GPT, which lessened the strain on scientific research).

Horses NE of "Needs a name"
Iron NW of Elephantine
Ivory around Mephis and Abybos
Iron south of Civantoria
Gold north of Asyut (deforest)
Wheat and horse at the river near Boston, Chicago and Washington
Iron by New York
Horse east of Philly
Gold north of Callisto
Iron and gold around Heliopolos
Cattle by Alexandria (deforest - err.. dejungle?)

Science suggestions:

Increase science to 70% to get Gunpowder in 1 turn, at the cost of 26 gold. (Much better than current trade options *not* involving a ROP agreement)

I would like to say that the province of Ameri and all of her resourses back this administration fully.

could the department heads please open a new post in the "chat-voicing-list (term2)":
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=20797

is should contain the following:
department-name
chat represenatatives in order of priority

for example this could be:
joke-department
1.) leader-name
2.) deputy-name
3.) chat-rep name

this will be the only source for voice-rights, so please update it!
otherwise your reps wont get voice in the chat.

Chieftess: Iroquois : Spice --> Printing Press, 3GPT, 56 gold up front (entire treasury!)


Chieftess: Increase science to 70% to get Gunpowder in 1 turn, at the cost of 26 gold. (Much better than current trade options *not* involving a ROP agreement)

FA (Foreign Affairs) Dept. has proposed some ROP trades to obtain Printing Press & Gunpowder. Cheiftess, pls. discuss with them to see which deals have the go-ahead. Shaitan is already aware of our proposals. I remeber reading the ROP trades somewhere but can't seem to find them now!

Chieftess:Build a road connecting the following:

I am assuming that these are not in order of importance, since that doesn't make sense based on the current worker locations. If not, pls. clarify.

I was also wondering how it is decided which workers do what. This would involve at least the governors, domestic, trade & military depts.

There's no order for the resource connections, since they're just suggestions, like the gunpowder tech.

Need it be stated that we should hook up any saltpeter we find? Should that go in your priority of workers list?

Need it be stated that we should hook up any saltpeter we find? Should that go in your priority of workers list?

CheifP, she just said that the list is NOT in order of priority!! :splat:

And I agree that priority should definitely be given to saltpeter (at least 1) ;)

pls. see this page:

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=22504

Originally posted by chiefpaco
Need it be stated that we should hook up any saltpeter we find? Should that go in your priority of workers list?

Salpeter?? What's that? ;)

Of course, those were current resources. We'll have to see where they are in 1-2 turns.

Originally posted by Zur


CheifP, she just said that the list is NOT in order of priority!! :splat:

And I agree that priority should definitely be given to saltpeter (at least 1) ;)

:D

I was looking in the south-east region when I started that list, and worked my way north. Of course, we'll need to give priority to salpeter, and see what nations have them. (take a breather in turn 1 or 2, and look).

Me:I was also wondering how it is decided which workers do what. This would involve at least the governors, domestic, trade & military depts.

New constitutional amendment:

Article 5: When more than one official has jurisdiction over a particular activity the conflict will be decided according to the Chain of Command.

If the new constitutional amendment is passed, I guess it will be decided by the COC, unless there is prior voting by citizens.

In looking at the save game, there are two luxuries available for trade, and I think we should pursue them. The two trades are:

India Silk for 420 gold (or 22 gpt)
Baby. Fur for Saltpeter and 140 gold (or salt and 8gpt)

This may seem expensive, but I think it would be well worth it, and here is my reasoning. We are currently spending 26per turn on luxury rate, at 10%. One additional luxury, which would cost us slightly less, would have at least as much effect in most towns, and even more in others. First, every connected town would get one happy face. That is the equivalent of the 10% luxury in towns with 10 commerce.

For the many corrupt towns with only 1-2 commerce, the luxury rate has no effect, but the silk would. Also, for larger cities, most have a Marketplace. For them, this 5th and 6th luxury are worth 3 faces apiece.

So by trading, we could drop the luxury rate to pay for the trade, and in most towns come out with more happiness. This will lead to more WLTKD and maybe put some lazy entertainers back to work!

(I am not sure what our policy would be on giving Saltpeter to Babylon, but at least if they did declare war, we would be taking their supply away.)

I recommend that we pursue at least one deal, preferably both. It just adds up to more WLTKDs, after all, 6 more happy faces in every city with a market!!

I'm against the Babs and the Saltpeter. They've already started a war with us and accoriding to the Mil. Advisor in the Game we're already at par with them, if they get their hands on some of that saltpeter they will build muskets, and once they declare war those muskets will remain.

I wondered if we had a policy about that. I don't know if a trade could be arranged without Saltpeter, for more money, might be worth looking into.

Originally posted by Falcon02
I'm against the Babs and the Saltpeter. They've already started a war with us and accoriding to the Mil. Advisor in the Game we're already at par with them, if they get their hands on some of that saltpeter they will build muskets, and once they declare war those muskets will remain.

Agreed. It is against the Trade Department's policy to give strategic resources, especially to a potential enemy. The trade of horses to Rome was to assist them in fighting a common enemy, Babylon, and is a rare execption.

I wouldn't want to give saltpeter to Babylon either but I think we should rethink the policy against trading strategic resources. I think it's okay to trade these in special circumstances like we are doing with Rome and also to generally make these available to trade to distant civilizations.

For example, I'd love to get horses to the Iroquois. They are not an immediate neighbor so their military threat to us is reduced. By keeping them on a parity with their own neighbors we help to preserve the balance of power among the AI civilizations.

Justus: India Silk for 420 gold (or 22 gpt)
Baby. Fur for Saltpeter and 140 gold (or salt and 8gpt)


I'm wondering how we can obtain the funding for these deals. At least the Silk one (if not fur as well) would be beneficial to Pheonatica as a whole, but the Trade Department has only 60 gold. Could there be a system where the difference between the luxury rate saved and the import goes to the Trade Department's budget? I'm not sure this is supported under the current budgetary system though.

Edit: Trade Dept. now has 160 gold according to Eyrei.

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=21947&pagenumber=2

Shaitan: They are not an immediate neighbor so their military threat to us is reduced. By keeping them on a parity with their own neighbors we help to preserve the balance of power among the AI civilizations.

I was pretty surprised when I looked at the power graph and saw them in 2nd place. Salamanca is also the 2nd best city after us. And we do share a small border with them through which they could invade if they wanted to. But we do have good relations with them and they are unlikely to tun militaristic without horses. Currently, we share borders with all civs except the Zulu.

I'm also wondering if citizens are now allowed to post in the government sub-forum? If not, we should in future move all trade discussions into threads in the citizens forums and only post the results of the discussions here, similar to what FA does.

Possible trades for 26/5 turn chat:

Iroquois:

Democracy <->Dye+Incense+177g
World Map + (Astro or Chemistry) <-> incense & dyes

Edit:- Deals expiring in the next 10 turns:
Iroquois: 3gpt <->spices (already expired, so should renegotiate immediately)
Greece:18gpt<->Ivory (expiring in 10 turns)

Possible trades on 1030AD:

India:
silks <-> ivory, 100 gold

metallurgy <-> ivory, 342 gold

democracy <-> ivory, 173 gold

CONTACT WITH ENGLISH <-> Ivory
11gpt + 87 gold + WM

Iroquois:
Contact with English <-> 123 gold

Rome:
democracy <-> horses, saltpeter, 2 lururies, 31 gold

Aztec:
democracy <-> Iron (bad), 2 luxuries
1gpt + 37

NB. Aztecs already have unconnected iron within their borders. trading them resources could also pre-emt another attack.

Suggested:
1. Get WM from India(equiv. 74 gold) & Iroquois(equiv. 72 gold) since they know English.
2. Further trades may be possible with English upon contact. It would be great if contact could be established during pre-turn for further discussion of English trades during turn chat.

Also, we are the only civ to have economics. Trading it away now would allow competition for Smiths'

If the trade department wants another Luxury resource it will need to rush another culture building or two in Tlaxcala. This will grab Gems from the Greeks. :D This will replace the silks lost and make people happy and WLTK days will come back. All for the cost of rushing a temple.... :)

Would the trade department look into the cost of buying maps from other countries? We are interesting in finding the 'English'.

India:

Contact w/England, Metallurgy --> Ivory, 462 Gold

World Map --> Ivory or 75 gold (we get a territory map of England)

England:

Give England 20 gold upfront. This will make England polite.

(it seems a lump sum improves relations more than GPT)

Greece: Give 20 gold, not GPT, and they will be polite

--------
Right after contact with England:

Aztecs (I'm cautious about this one)
Comm. w/England --> WM, 2GPT, 30 gold up front

Originally posted by Chieftess
India:

Contact w/England, Metallurgy --> Ivory, 462 Gold

Aztecs (I'm cautious about this one)
Comm. w/England --> WM, 2GPT, 30 gold up front

Please note that two trades were completed earlier today:

ivory & 100 gold to India for silks

and

2 lux & iron to Aztecs for democracy, 37 gold and 1 gold/turn.

Trade suggestions for 1130AD:

India:
Contact with English <->gems
Free Artistry
WM
156 gold

Zulu:
Contact with English <->1 luxury
WM

Iroquois:
Metallurgy<-> Gems + 55 gold

Free Artistry<->Gems
WM
Contact with English
5 gpt + 121 gold

Actions for next turn chat:
incense to Iroquois expiring in 1 turn ->renegotiate for stuff
Renegotiate Ivory to Greece for >=18gpt

Due to my experience, there is always at least one of evrey luxery. If this is true, then the English must have access to Wines. Wines are intoxicating liqours that come from fermented fruit juice. I have only heard rumors of thier existence, do you belive this wine could exist on this planet. If so, should we get is as soon as possible? I belive it is the duty of the trade department to gain access to this luxery if we can, and I belive England is most likely the key.

That is why I've been pushing for contact with England to be established and to obtain their position ASAP. Having 1 more potential trading partner can only do good. We can sell lots of excess resources to them before other civs get in on it.

I have even proposed a contact deal, that was eventually squashed due to a turn-0 pre-turn-chat that I didn't know about.

Originally posted by Zur
That is why I've been pushing for contact with England to be established and to obtain their position ASAP. Having 1 more potential trading partner can only do good. We can sell lots of excess resources to them before other civs get in on it.

You never said there was alcohol involved Zur!:beer: We definately need to look into this.

The wines thingy didn't occur to me. Kudos to Plexus' quick thinking :) . I was speaking more generally about trade with a new partner. Having more options is more likely to do good than harm. His example illustrates 1 such potential benefit.

Term 3 (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=23760)