Shall the Oracle be started immediately upon completing Priesthood?

Yes
No

Public poll, 3 days.

Too many discussions have been had on this to post all the links.

Some of the threads where the Oracle has been mentioned, in no particular order:
one (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=215883)
two (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=217725&highlight=oracle)
three (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=210408&highlight=oracle)
four (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=213415&highlight=oracle)
five (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=212376&highlight=oracle)

Or see for yourself here (http://forums.civfanatics.com/search.php?searchid=265179). (if the link to search results works ;) )

I'd say it would be important to post a link to at least the most recent discussion on the issue, which asked the question should we build stonehenge in our capital, a number of people suggested that we should build the oracle instead as had been the plan for reaching CoL for quite a while.

You haven't referenced the other option of building stonehenge, or the option of building both, and I want to make sure that people are aware of those options so that people don't nit pick the poll.

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=218125

By the way I fully support the oracle only plan fearing that going after stonehenge will cause us to loose both wonders

I think a "should we build the stonehenge" poll should have been made first.

I think we can consider a no vote on this poll to be an endorsement of stonehenge as in the discussion thread there was significant support for three plans

stonehenge
the oracle
stonehenge then the oracle

I don't believe anyone voiced support for do not build wonders, and since both of the choices besides the oracle suggest stonehenge be built immediately, no should mean build stonehenge.

Hopefully such discussions about interpretation are unnecessary, hopefully we'll only need to interpret the yes vote.

First, we've been talking Oracle since game start for getting CoL.

However, overall the polling of Oracle vs. Stonehenge should have been done much earlier then this.

NotA is currently in a position to build a wonder (whether it's Oracle or Stonehenge). The current instructions do not include either, even though we will get Priesthood in 1 turn. This means precious time could be lost that increase our chances of the AI beating us to whichever Wonder we would go for.

Long story short, we need to start building our first wonder at the start of this game session, either in the pre-turn (Stonehenge) or Turn 1 (Oracle). Otherwise odds are we will lose both wonders.

If someone wants to poll building Stonehenge, then they can poll it. We could even build both, if we really want to be foolish.

Also, does anyone have any estimation how long Oracle will take to build?

I don't have the save infront of me right now...

Going off of memory NotA was producing about 15 hammers, Oracle costs 150 hammers, so it should take 10 turns to build.

Stonehenge is 120 hammers in cost, which is 8 turns (as stated in the discussion thread).

So it would take 18 turns to build both... doable, but we don't know where the AI is, and could lose both wonders, while someone else gets Confusianism.

Checked the savegame, The Oracle would take 10 turns at 15 :hammers: in NotA per turn indeed. We could speed it up by improving the forested mountain 1N2W and NotA will also grow in 7 turns after researching Priesthood.

Stonehenge can be constructed even faster than in 8 turns if we connect to the stone 1N3E. A stone quarry cuts down the construction time for Stonehenge by half.

NotA is making 11 hammers, and can be increased to 14 hammers if we decided to really push and stunt growth. This results in Oracle in 11, or Stonehenge in 9. A starvation level would drop it to Oracle in 9 or Stonehenge in 8, with the food storage completely depleted in turn 9 if my calculations are correct.

If we really want both, then build both at the same time, Oracle in NotA and Stonehenge in City 2 (have we named it yet??), and pray we don't get whacked by Napolean when our army is only half that of France.

Stonehenge can be constructed even faster than in 8 turns if we connect to the stone 1N3E. A stone quarry cuts down the construction time for Stonehenge by half.

The quarry won't help because it will take longer to quarry and connect than it will to build the wonder.

You have the same savegame as me, DaveShack? 675 BC?!

Checked the savegame, The Oracle would take 10 turns at 15 :hammers: in NotA per turn indeed.

What combination of tiles gives us 15 :hammers: ? I found combinations giving 14 :hammers: at no growth, and 17 :hammers: at -2 :food: .

You have the same savegame as me, DaveShack? 675 BC?!

Yes, that's the one. My Stonehenge numbers might be 1 turn longer than they should be, forgot to subtract the turn we're on.

Also, on the Quarry issue, If I'm not mistaken we don't have Masonry (required for Quarries) so we need to get Masonry first. Also IIRC the AI wasn't too keen on trading away Masonry... or at they very least we didn't have enough to offer them in return.

I just loaded the savegame in Dutchfire's announcement post for tomorrow's turnchat. Check the attachment.

EDIT: Falcon02, I forgot about Masonry. Too late to suggest Masonry now for the research queue I presume.

NotA is making 11 hammers, and can be increased to 14 hammers if we decided to really push and stunt growth. This results in Oracle in 11, or Stonehenge in 9. A starvation level would drop it to Oracle in 9 or Stonehenge in 8, with the food storage completely depleted in turn 9 if my calculations are correct.

If we really want both, then build both at the same time, Oracle in NotA and Stonehenge in City 2 (have we named it yet??), and pray we don't get whacked by Napolean when our army is only half that of France.

This is one thing that worries me... If we had an ideal Military right now I'd say go for Oracle in NotA and Stonehenge in Equus Aurum...

However, our military is in poor shape and Equus Aurum is acting as our primary recuitment city. Since NotA will likely be otherwise occupied with a Wonder, and City #1 (Gold+Cow) doesn't really have the production capability yet to fill either role, Equus Aurum should stick with Military production for a bit.

I just loaded the savegame in Dutchfire's announcement post for tomorrow's turnchat. Check the attachment.


That's very interesting. The city screen clearly says 15 :hammers:, but adding the :hammers: on the tiles only adds up to 11.

After further review, the 11 is correct, at least for long-term planning purposes. There were 4 :hammers: of overflow, and the city screen includes them in the :hammers: per turn. The real value to be used for the next and subsequent turns is 11 :hammers:. I don't have enough information to tell if this is a bug in the interface code, or a feature to show how many will be recorded this turn including the overflow.

Also the tech times don't account for overflow, so CoL won't take the 20 turns shown in the tech screen, it will actually be less.

First post updated with several links to threads where the Oracle has been discussed, since we started the game or possibly even before.

Yes. We've talked about it, planned for it, geared our research path for it. Let's do it.

-- Ravensfire

NotA is making 11 hammers, and can be increased to 14 hammers if we decided to really push and stunt growth. This results in Oracle in 11, or Stonehenge in 9. A starvation level would drop it to Oracle in 9 or Stonehenge in 8, with the food storage completely depleted in turn 9 if my calculations are correct.

If we really want both, then build both at the same time, Oracle in NotA and Stonehenge in City 2 (have we named it yet??), and pray we don't get whacked by Napolean when our army is only half that of France.

We can specialize our cities temporarily for now. EA (our 2nd city) can build troops if we really want to build both wonders in NotA and City 2.

Also, on the Quarry issue, If I'm not mistaken we don't have Masonry (required for Quarries) so we need to get Masonry first. Also IIRC the AI wasn't too keen on trading away Masonry... or at they very least we didn't have enough to offer them in return.

If I'm not wrong, we have meditation (114 beakers) and the AIs have masonry (also 114 beakers). We should be able to make a trade (preferably not with Nappy, but with Caesar and Bizzy). We could trade meditation for masonry, and mysticism for fishing. But doing so means we have to build the Oracle fast before they research Priesthood.

Voted yes, changed orders.
@DaveShack, the game always displays the number of hammers during this turn, but the calculation of the number of turns is correct.

We've been talking about this all game so we should make the attempt, even though we're getting a late start. In order to maximize our chance at getting this I strongly suggest we send a couple of workers to NotA to chop some forests.

I suggest we research COL while building the Oracle (as we've discussed for some time) and try to time the completion of the Oracle with the discovery of COL. Looking at the save this should be possible if we emphasize gold/science in Equus Aurum (as I believe the governor has ordered). Assuming we build the Oracle, we can select Civil Service as our free tech. I think we'll also have the choice of selecting Philosophy (Taoism) if we so choose. We may want to stop the turnchat one turn before building the Oracle so we can discuss which free tech we should choose.

We need meditation for philosophy. edit: we have it.

Given that the Oracle has been built, this poll can be closed. I will request a moderator do so, and satisfy that request. :lol: