Settings:

Victory Condition: Cultural (though all victory conditions must be enabled)
Difficulty: Monarch
Starting Era: Any
Map Size: Large
Map Type: Any
Speed: Epic
Civ: Any
Opponents: Any
Version: 1.61.011 or 2.08.004
Date: 25th April to 24th May 2007
The earliest finish date wins, with score as a tiebreaker.

you beauty! A major where I don't have to play for 4 days solid to win!

you beauty! A major where I don't have to play for 4 days solid to win!
Hmmm, maybe I should have made that Huge and Deity :satan:.

Oh well, there goes my #1 spot on the main table :lol: ;)

Will you try to defend your position Ozbenno?

I'm certainly going to give it a go.

I'm certainly going to give it a go.I suggest posting a heart felt request that NO ONE actually submit a culture game for the next month :D

I think I'll give this one a go as Gandhi...He'd make a great opponent, but I think he'd make a better candidate for a fast victory...Spiritual and Philosophical(Warlord) should be a good combo.

Oh well, there goes my #1 spot on the main table :lol: ;)

You'll still maintain your #1 spot on Quick.

Back to epic. That will be nice. I get all confused when playing the other speeds. I think I'm doing really well to build a wonder in 25 turns but then realise it's just because the game speed is faster.

Epic is the One True Speed!

Interestingly, Epic is the only speed I haven't submitted a game on, yet its the speed I play most often lol.

I wonder if I can do better than second-to-last on this one. Cultural is probably my favourite victory condition although I've never done it on Large Monarch before.

Is there any real difference between a Major and a Minor, other than the length of time it is open for?

I'm a little rusty on these larger maps. How many temples does it take for a cathedral? 3, right?...not 4.

I'm a little rusty on these larger maps. How many temples does it take for a cathedral? 3, right?...not 4.

Good question. I'm pretty sure 3 is right but if someone can confirm :D

Yes, we need 3 temples for a cathedral, 4 is for huge.

Anyway I agree that Gandhi is the best choice, but in Vanilla (ind/spi), because industrial is important for cultural, especially if you don't have stone or marble at the beginning of the game.

Starting with mysticism is very useful, that's why Ramses (ind/spi as well) is not so good choice.

However creative ability can be useful as well, and not just because of +2 culture, but double library production. Unfortunatelly Luis (ind/cre) doesn't have mysticism either.

Yeees, culture! :) :goodjob: :) Quick speed and Deity would have been even better, but I am not complaining.

I will shoot for #1, you are warned!:p Vanilla Eliz and Vanilla Saladin are my heroes. I could try a single Quechua rush too.

damn it... a major i think i can win but most probably no time to contribute...:cry:

Warlords Huayna ftw. If I find some time to try.

This sounds like an interesting major. Not as time consuming as the last one, while not as hard as the one before. Too bad this isn't emperor or immortal, where there's still a blank spot in the HoF table!

Interesting, so i can learn something on cultural, where i'm weak (as in diplo).
Someone can say i'm weak anywhere, OK i'm worst than in other conditions.

No infinite attempts to try to pop a settler from a GH.
Gandhi in warlords, or Saladin in vanilla.
Stone and marble needed (but to be honest i like to have them for any victory).

Maybe just I think that industrial is needed for a good culural result?

In cultural closing to the end your 3 best cities produces 500-1200 culture while a GA adds 4000 in normal (anyway, how many in epic?). Without phi you still can produce several GA (and other GP-s, if you want to have +60 base culture from wonders).

(anyway, how many in epic?).

In Epic a GA can bomb 6000 culture out of the 75000 you need.

... a GA adds 4000 in normal (anyway, how many in epic?6000 IIRC.

Edit: DUH - double post.

Thank you guys.

I love industrial usually, but I am planning on staying away from most of the non-GA producing wonders, including the Oracle, so Philo is a better choice. Perhaps that is a wrong view to take?

The only wonders I was planning on guaranteeing myself are Pyramids and Parthenon, the rest of the non-GA ones I'm ignoring, the other GA ones I'll try to build in one of my 3 cities.

Finally, I'm running no barbs because in my first three attempts, I had bad luck with the RNG against barbs.

I had a game with saladin vanilla where I wasn't satisfied with the result, however I still reached 2nd position in chieftain/huge with a 1450 date.

Don't polluting your GP's has its advantages and disadvantages as well. Other GP-s (well, except GM) can be useful as well even if GA is the best for cultural of course.

I prepared myself by reading Godotnut's guide.
I'll start with the usual way with Gandhi on warlords but wanna try the Incas too.
If you have a philo-race you should build the Great Library for 3 academies.

I love industrial usually, but I am planning on staying away from most of the non-GA producing wonders, including the Oracle, so Philo is a better choice. Perhaps that is a wrong view to take?

I think that's the right view. I won't build the Pyramids. I won't build the GLib. I won't build the Oracle. I will build 1 or 0 Academies per game. I think my games will be very similar to the writeup I have just posted. Good luck everyone.

I won't build the Pyramids. I won't build the GLib. I won't build the Oracle. I will build 1 or 0 Academies per game. I think my games will be very similar to the writeup I have just posted.

i likely won't try this, it turns out the crashes on autosave that i experience which sometimes gets my games excluded are linked to the HoF mod itself and never ever happen when i don't run it, even when i autosave every turn :(. on a large map there's no way i won't get at least 3 crashes. but if i do try it, strategy #1 will be ... pay attention to every word that jesusin types! of course i wouldn't do everything the way you do, i always disagree with something in all the advice i ever get from anyone, but i'd sure listen :).

you beauty! A major where I don't have to play for 4 days solid to win!

remembering g-major 10, it was more like playing 4 days solid to loose...

This game will have ideal length, at least to me.

We haven't mention map type, since we can choose it.

For cultural, a map wich allows you to thread religions earlier is useful, that's for sure. I'm thinking on pangea, inland sea is maybe even better, but I already have good results from it.

I will start this as soon as I get WOTM 8 out of the way.

ok, I finish it. I probably wont submit/play another one for this G-Major. This game is just so long, with the last 100 turns just pressing the skip turn button. :(

Overall, I would say I could have done better and I was a bit unlucky.

I chose Louis (warlords), Industrious means building wonders and Creative means 2 culture/ turn. In addition the ub salon gives a free artist.

I never play much games on large, because by the end it lags (and it did).

I play 9 opponents, 5 on my continent, and 4 on the other. Religion-wise, our continent only has confucianism, christianity and taoism. Not good.

In the early stage, I took out one opponent and found enough cities to build those cathedrals. I beat Cyrus on music (i think he has 1-2 turns left, cuz he was willing to trade that for 20 gold). I only manage to get 2 religions spread, unforunately.

I built a variety of wonders: pyramid, sistine chapel (prove to be crucial), university of sankore, angklot (sorry i forgot the name, the wonder that gives you +1 hammer for priest), hagia sofia, and couple more i dont remember

I was the tech leader after I beeline to liberalism and remain so until mass media (I probably should have stop researching after nationalism)

In the end, I was counting my investment on the great artists. It turns out I was extremely unlucky, getting other useless gp in the end.

4th last gp: I got Prophet (19%), while Artist (74%)
3rd last gp: I got Engineer (9%), while Artist (71%)
2nd last gp: I got Prophet again (17%), while Artist (70%)

my last gp was artist (finally!!!) at 70%

Note that on the turn I got cultural win, I'm pretty sure Kublan khan would win a dipolmatic victory the next turn since he has a lot of buddies (him and 4 more)

won at 1835, could have been in the 1700s

Hi all!

I won the game in 1553, I think it's pretty good.

I played with the incas in pangea. Before I established my capital at the very first turn, I saw a corn, a wheat and a gold adjacent to Cuzco, I couldn't beleive that there were two pigs as well! I didn't count, but at least 9 GS came from my capital, even if most of the wonders were at my two other legendary cities.

Wonders: oracle, stonehenge, pyramids, parthenon, sistine chapel, great library and taj mahal. Later I was quite unlucky with the wonders, I was 3-4 turn for finishing hanging g. and later statue of l. when the opponents finished it.

I founded 5 religions, that was enough (no religions came from aboard).

Hmmm, I have had three attempts at this today and have been wiped out by barbarians by 1000 BC each time. What a nightmare. I think I need a change of tactics. Or map type.

Hmmm, I have had three attempts at this today and have been wiped out by barbarians by 1000 BC each time. What a nightmare. I think I need a change of tactics. Or map type.

Or play without barbs.

1553 will be hard to beat :) Great game :D

Note that on the turn I got cultural win, I'm pretty sure Kublan khan would win a diplomatic victory the next turn since he has a lot of buddies (him and 4 more)

grats to both you and to kovacsflo for winning! i had to quote you tho since this reminds me of some of the "close call" games i've had myself. i'm glad you didn't give him time to get the votes in :)

grats to both you and to kovacsflo for winning! i had to quote you tho since this reminds me of some of the "close call" games i've had myself. i'm glad you didn't give him time to get the votes in :)

My english is not perfect, what do you mean in "close call game"?

umm, a close call is like an almost-tie at the end of a race. you win, but only by a little bit. the second place finish is very close to the first place winner.

if it had taken infantry#14 a few more turns for his third city to reach legendary, khan likely would have won during those turns. as long as do you win, that's all that matters, the fact that it was a close call doesn't count. but it sure makes me nervous while it's happening, until it's over and i know for sure that i won the race!

i love the differences in languages. often someone will ask me what a phrase means and i have to stop to think about how to define it. there are things i say all the time without a specific definition in my head, that was one of them. it helps me learn more about my own native language, i like that and it also makes me laugh to notice my habits that way. :) i never notice them on my own, because of course they're such automatic habits!

How much warfare are people engaging in in this game so far? Do you still do a rush to knock back a neighbour, or is it cultural expansion all the way?

Culture all the way for me. I think the neighbors are too far away.

How much warfare are people engaging in in this game so far? Do you still do a rush to knock back a neighbour, or is it cultural expansion all the way?

I build 3 initial cities, took out an opponet and 5 of his cities, build one more, and then culturely steal one more (although I didnt need this)

How much warfare are people engaging in in this game so far? Do you still do a rush to knock back a neighbour, or is it cultural expansion all the way?

I could imagine only one reason why I would attack an enemy in cultural game: lack of religion.

Otherwise cultural expansion in the middle of a pangea map made me possible to weaken 4-5 civs, 2 cities joined to me at the end of the game.

In monarch opponents can help you a lot to discover liberalism and mercantilism earlier, why should we stop them doing that?

I am just wondering how people can possibly get cultural victory so early. In 1300 AD, my cities have about 1,000 culture at most. No way could I get to 75,000 within the next 200 years.

Anyway, I am glad that I am on the right track with my mostly peaceful expansion so far (on my 4th attempt). I have no World Wonders though. Is that a usually major problem?

In culture games at this level it is fairly usual to not have many (or any) wonders. I will attempt Parthenon, Sisitine Chapel and Statue of Liberty only and not be destroyed if all fail. The culture will overwhemingly come from specialists and religious multiplier buildings (cathedrals and the like).

Surely the people who have finished in the 16th century have done so without Statue of Liberty? How can this possibly be built at Monarch level before this time (or if before, then early enough to have any impact)?

I have already missed Parthenon and Sistine Chapel.

Are specialists better than commerce then? I was using the religious multiplier buildings to multiply all my Financial trait commerce from Towns. What's the point in me being Financial if I am going to build farms for specialists instead of cottages?

Or are you talking about Great Artists from a separate city to be added / bombed on your culture cities?

The problem with this Epic Large game is that they take longer so it is much more difficult to fit in multiple attempts if you stuff up.

Surely the people who have finished in the 16th century have done so without Statue of Liberty? How can this possibly be built at Monarch level before this time (or if before, then early enough to have any impact)?

Statue of Liberty is possible (not easy though ;) in 16th century. Culture is a streamlined research tree, there are many tech paths you never need to go through.

Are specialists better than commerce then? I was using the religious multiplier buildings to multiply all my Financial trait commerce from Towns. What's the point in me being Financial if I am going to build farms for specialists instead of cottages?


If you're financial then cottages are, of course, the way to go but with mercantilism and SoL you still get two free artists. If you're philosphical a SE might be better off.

Surely the people who have finished in the 16th century have done so without Statue of Liberty?

Why even tech that far?

Culture is a streamlined research tree, there are many tech paths you never need to go through.

Such as the one that leads to SoL.

I'm currently around 275 AD and unless I can trade for some of my techs, I only have approx. 49 turns left to research. Hopefully I can finish this one in a reasonable time (like this week).

I usually tech to Liberalism or Printing Press if I'm financial)and then switch off. I hopefully can trade up to Constitution and then flick research on to get to Democracy. Universal Sufferage is great as you can use it to buy whatever culture buildings you are lacking.

If I can win without having Democracy all the better but usually it ends up quicker to get it.

I usually tech to Liberalism or Printing Press if I'm financial)and then switch off.

I agree. I like to take PP with Liberalism.

Universal Sufferage is great as you can use it to buy whatever culture buildings you are lacking.

Again, I agree, though I don't like to research it. I tend to go for the Pyramids early for Representation and US.

If I can win without having Democracy all the better but usually it ends up quicker to get it.

I've tried before going to MM, but don't like having research turned on so long. I'm not for sure if I'm really saving any time by switching research off so soon, but it feels like it. I'm not sure if I've ever gone for Demo when aiming for a culture victory.

Hmm, I must be doing something badly wrong then. I have never managed to get cultural victory, on any level, before about 1980 AD at the very earliest.

What if you are Financial AND Philosophical? Which takes precedence in terms of cottages versus farms in the three cultural cities?

Also, is the Highlands map any harder than any other map for this purpose? My first three attempts were on Highlands but it was a nightmare. I am now trying Fractal and it all seems much easier.

In your games, are you getting much culture in the early years, or does it all come in a big heap at the end when you get your three cathedrals up? To put it more specifically, how much of your 75,000 culture is coming in the last 50 turns?

In your games, are you getting much culture in the early years, or does it all come in a big heap at the end when you get your three cathedrals up? To put it more specifically, how much of your 75,000 culture is coming in the last 50 turns?

For me, all 3 of my cities were producing 700+ culture per turn in the last 50 turns. Each only have 2 catedrals, about 4 wonder (national+ world), cultural buildings, 6 artists (caste system), 100% gold -> culture. Sorry I dont know their the base culture.

Hmmm, 6 artists.... Maybe that is what I am doing wrong. I have never ever had 6 artists in a city.

I wouldn't use Highlands map as it is very big and hard to get trade routes (for religion spread) going. I would use Inland Sea, Pangea, Fractal, Lakes or Continents

1860, with Saladin, Continents, tropical for more grasslands to farm, various non-industrious, non-spiritual opponents, CivIV Vanilla.

My fastest cultural win ever, and only my third monarch win ever. (1 diplo, 1 other cultural) My first win ever using a specialist economy. (SE)

Three tech huts early, :cooool: Mining, Fishing, Hunting. Baby Techs, but everything helps early.

Had Julius Caesar, Cyrus, and Peter on my continent. Founded Polytheism, Judaism, and Confucianism (Oracle), one each in my three legendary cities. I got Confucianism to my Roman friend right away, and he became my best friend for life. Cyrus got Theology first, and spread Christianity to Peter.

I declared on Cyrus in a false war in 1124 AD to gain points with Rome. Peter declared on me in 1472, and sent in mostly Horse Archers. They were turned away by Praets, thanks to my good friend Julius who for the very cheap price of Theology, went to war with Peter in 1478. I never saw more than a passing glance of Peter's troops again, but i saw a lot of Praets and Horse Archers marching through my lands toward Peter's. :D I made peace with Peter in 1628, and could have been sooner, but I missed the message that JC had made peace with him.

Shortly after that, I finished the Statue of Liberty. From the time I got democracy (1592), I flipped between US and Representation as needed to rush buy.

Liberalism, in 1466, brought Constitution.

I ended up with 11 or 12 Great Artists, 4 or 5 Great Prophets, and 4 Great Scientists (Philosophy/Taoism, Compass, Paper, part of Education). The Education GS was particularly well timed as he brought me down to two turns for Education the year he was born.

I thought I only had 17 Great People total, but I know I made all four of my shrines, and had at least 11 artists and 4 scientists. Hmm, oh well. I think I had a prophet sleeping at the end as well for a possible Golden Age.

What held me back the most was not beelining, and developing my other cities more than necessary. There were a lot of jungles to clear, as well. I'm no 16th century player yet, but after losing the last major (on points to Ghandi, no less!), I'm happy.

Also, is the Highlands map any harder than any other map for this purpose? My first three attempts were on Highlands but it was a nightmare. I am now trying Fractal and it all seems much easier.

In your games, are you getting much culture in the early years, or does it all come in a big heap at the end when you get your three cathedrals up? To put it more specifically, how much of your 75,000 culture is coming in the last 50 turns?

i am not an expert by any means!!

a lot of the culture in my big 3 cities comes at the end of the game. i'm not sure the dividing line in turns for "more than half comes after X" point. it comes in a big heap due to getting cathedrals up and turning up the culture slider. then add in the culture bombs i've saved up to use at the very end.

i generally tech only to PP. i like to pick peaceful opponents and i'm pretty good at managing diplomacy so military techs are not a concern. altho i prefer to buy cathedrals, if i don't have the pyramids and can't work out trades for pre-reqs, i can't motivate myself to tech all the way to democracy. if i get the prereqs in trades (or in "this might be of use to you"/"can you spare this for a friend" handouts) then i research demo. i've never built SoL and never gotten even close to the techs to build eiffel/hollywood/etc.

edit: i missed your post earlier, Bindamel
1860, with Saladin, Continents, tropical for more grasslands to farm, various non-industrious, non-spiritual opponents, CivIV Vanilla.

My fastest cultural win ever, and only my third monarch win ever. (1 diplo, 1 other cultural) My first win ever using a specialist economy. (SE)
...
What held me back the most was not beelining, and developing my other cities more than necessary. There were a lot of jungles to clear, as well. I'm no 16th century player yet, but after losing the last major (on points to Ghandi, no less!), I'm happy.
that is fantastic! major grats :). you have so many reasons to be happy! i understand wanting to think about "what held you back" so that you can improve, but take a moment to celebrate just how well you did. first win ever with SE, third on monarch, fastest cultural, and during a major gauntlet ... that's amazingly incredibly awesome i think. :goodjob:

and, i see this is only your 3rd post, welcome to CFC!

... then add in the culture bombs i've saved up to use at the very end.This process might not be ideal. If you are fairly sure which your 3 big cities are, settler an Artist early will generate more culture over time than the 6000 bomb. You need to do the maths and make some sort of allowance for turns remaining.

The downside of early settling of Artists is that you might put one in the wrong city or (as in my current game), your selected culture city might be a target for AI aggression. I have a nasty stack of macemen coming in and threating one of my cities.

This process might not be ideal. If you are fairly sure which your 3 big cities are, settler an Artist early will generate more culture over time than the 6000 bomb. You need to do the maths and make some sort of allowance for turns remaining.

The downside of early settling of Artists is that you might put one in the wrong city or (as in my current game), your selected culture city might be a target for AI aggression. I have a nasty stack of macemen coming in and threating one of my cities.

oops right, i didn't specify that only some i save, i sometimes settle early ones if i know it's early enough and i know a city is one of the big 3. like you said "If you are fairly sure which your 3 big cities are", i was surprised when i started playing cultural that sometimes a different city than the one i'd planned for my third worked out better at the end. i pick really really peaceful opponents that get along with each other and with me. i do build some military. altho i've often mined bronze/iron to get the hammers, but not roaded it for quite a long time, to keep the ability to build cheap warriors ;), and am not ashamed to restart if i do hear out-of-the-blue trumpets of war.

i do build some military. altho i've often mined bronze/iron to get the hammers, but not roaded it for quite a long time, to keep the ability to build cheap warriors ;)Hey, I do that too but every now and then get caught by a mine that is next to a river ... have to go back and pillage my own mine.

Settling an artist early seems like a good idea, but I can rarely make the math work out to justify it. On quick speed, certainly, it never works out. I think you need around 200 turns to go on Epic for it to make sense. Another thing that makes it difficult to settle that first artist is that an early culture bomb can move your borders out fast. This can either flip an opponent's city to your side or steal a bunch of resources. So I didn't settle any artist in my 1st game.

This early in a gauntlet I don't like to post my finish dates. Some people get discouraged for example, when they hear of the 1553 that's in already (great game!). I find Epic to be very different from quick speed. I had 18 great artists and I didn't even build the Parthenon (no marble), but GA's don't have as much power on Epic speed games. That'd be an easy 1400's finish on quick, but I did not get 1400's. I'm going to focus on more cottages, religions, and cathedrals...and I won't play without marble again.

You need to do the maths and make some sort of allowance for turns remaining.

That's the problem I'm having. What year to stop merging and save them up? I got one at 95 AD and I wasn't for sure. I thought that was enough time, but I didn't want to take the chance. I don't typically play my culture games on epic.

i was surprised when i started playing cultural that sometimes a different city than the one i'd planned for my third worked out better at the end.

I've had this happen several times with my GP Farm. It typically bypasses my lowest three and becomes one of my culture cities. Anymore I just plan my GP Farm to be one of my three.

I'm going to focus on more cottages, religions, and cathedrals...and I won't play without marble again.

This is/was my mistake. My current game I'm playing as Liz (Warlords) and I don't feel I cottaged enough. I should be a lot further on than I am, so I doubt I'll have a very good date.

Well, its 1850 AD and my three cities are on about 25,000 culture and currently making about 250 per turn. Main problem is that three civs have just started building SS casings so I am running out of time. I have one Great Artist standing by and another one due in about 10 turns. I wonder if I will be able to make it.

Well, its 1850 AD and my three cities are on about 25,000 culture and currently making about 250 per turn.

Have you stopped research yet? If so, what % on the :culture: slider are you running?

I am running at 10% science, 20% gold, and 70% culture.

I am pessimistic about this one because I figure I have about 100 turns left (more because this is a nice round number than because I have calculated the time left in the space race). This means I need at least 400 culture per turn, plus at least three great artists.

Going to 0% science isn't going to give me another 150 culture per turn and it will still take a while before the religious building programme is completed (my culture cities have almost no production as they are all cottaged up). I only got my 9th city a few turns ago (a handy culture flip from Cyrus) so it will be a while before 3 temples are up in there.

I'm happy it's a cultural G-Major. I hope I can upload a game. Monarch is already quite hard for me. So far, only two victories: one on a tiny map with Catherine and another on a small map with Caesar. Both were domination wins. Large maps are hard for my machine, I'm seriously thinking about buying a new video card, it's the only item below "recommendation". Yesterday for the first time I got a good time in a cultural victory without relying too much on wonders. It was a 1585 AD win (small/normal/chieftain). On my first try I will build the Pyramids and rush buy things.

If I get one of the first places, I'll be so happy. :dance: I doubt that, but I know I’ll try because that’s me.

my current attempt, I'm up to 675AD, have 8 cities, and just had Taoism and Judaism spread to me(finally!). I founded Hinduism and was 1 turn away from founding Buddhism too in this game :(

I'm playing as Hatty against Vicky, Washington, Roosevelt, Mansa, Frederick, Bismark, Brennus, and Gandhi...Everyone is pretty much equal in tech, but I've got the inside edge toward Liberalism as I'm the only civ with both Pacifism and Paper.

I haven't gotten any wonders yet, but I ran 3 priests for awhile to get the Hindu Shrine so I could fund my 100% research rate(thanks to selling unneeded resources for gpt and the shrine, I'm running my economy off of Great Library cash still...)

I'm about to mass produce workers to clear jungles, forests, and spam cottages in my cities...and expect to win around 1700AD. After I've got my baseline, I'll try to improve on it in later games. I also expect to flip 3 of Vicky's cities and at least 1 of Brennus' cities when I start running my culture slider instead of my science.

My 2nd attempt has great promise. Capitol has corn, gold, gold, six flood plains and wine.

2nd city has pig, wheat, marble, so I expect to get Oracle, Parthenon.

My plan is to go for Sistine chapel for a change. So since I'm going there, I was first to Hindu and Judaism. I'm assuming I'll first to Confuc, Christianity and Tao too. I don't mind getting the stone religions (with no stone) because I plan to rush buy some buildings...which is also not my normal plan.
Since no stone, that means no Pyramids, so the plan is to tech to Democracy, maybe even take it free from Liberalism.

I'm most excited about this game because I got Priesthood, Writing, and Math for free! I always trade for math, so no big deal there.

My first attempt just got destroyed by Cyrus' knights in the 1200s. :cry:

Was going reasonably well as Frederick (vanilla). Founded Hinduism but misseed Confusedism by 2 turns to Cyrus, who them must have lightbulbed Taoism as he had it insanely early. No other religion spread to me until just before the knight-attack. Got Liberalism in 1202 and took PP, switched off research. Had 9 GAs sitting in Berlin (one settled very early on), which was able to run 8 artists at a time with Parthenon, Pacifism, National Epic and pop a GA every 10-15 turns.

My warriors tried bravely but to no avail. Had been thinking of switching to Free Religion as Hatty was getting annoyed. Cyrus was pleased but must have slipped to cautious and bang.

Think I was on track for a 1600s finish (maybe 1700s) so back to the drawing board for another attempt in a few days.

I had marble in this game and realised it is very helpful for Parthenon, Sistine Chapel, National Epic, Hermitage and Hindu Mandhir all needing it.

Hmm, everyone is doing better than me. I think I need to have another go and make a better effort to:
- expand into better quality territory earlier
- plan border cities for better culture flipping opportunities
- plan techs for maximum trading opportunities and more concerted beeline for Liberalism
- plan wonders based on resource availability but consider Pyramids, Stonehenge, Parthenon, and Sistine Chapel.

Can't decide if I should take all the risks to get the best game I can, or play it safe and not ruin a good start. I never go for monotheism so early, so I have the option of Organized Religion early. Should I:

a) risk war by taking on a religion this early and have 25% production boost?
b) chicken out
c) other?

If I wait for Alphabet, I can trade tech and make people happy with me.

Hmm, everyone is doing better than me. I think I need to have another go and make a better effort to:
- expand into better quality territory earlier
- plan border cities for better culture flipping opportunities
- plan techs for maximum trading opportunities and more concerted beeline for Liberalism
- plan wonders based on resource availability but consider Pyramids, Stonehenge, Parthenon, and Sistine Chapel.

This is the perfect place to ask for help and suggestions, so ask away. I'm curious, what tech path do you follow? How soon do you build your first three and the rest to get yourself up to nine?

Here's my answers:
Techs: I tend to head straight for Pottery, Writing, and Alphabet. Once I have Alpha I trade for the metals and anything else I missed. I than aim for Col, CS, and than Liberalism.
Main Three: I build my main cities quickly but slow down on the others. Once I get my main three up and strong I build the others as my empire can sustain them. I use the other six only for my temples and military production.

Sorry, this isn't very clear. I wrote it rather quickly.

Can't decide if I should take all the risks to get the best game I can, or play it safe and not ruin a good start.

now that is something i never thought i'd see. a post that makes me glad i haven't yet won a major! since i haven't, i don't have to wonder whether to play it safe or go for the best game i can. i just really really want to get credit for winning one, so i'm trying to play as safely as i possibly can :lol:.

i tried G-Major 9, the deity diplo one, as OCC and didn't win. i've played that scenario several times after the gauntlet closed, because it's addictive, fun and quick, and i never get rated as dan quayle so i guess i'm good at losing that way ;). well this game makes me miss deity in one way ... the AI leaders were quite devoted to spreading their religions on that level. i can't depend on them the same way on monarch it seems.

i don't think i've ever ended up with less than 4 AI-founded religions in my OCC deity games, sometimes 5. in one game, asoka had 3 missionaries out at all times, and his workers built part of his railroad network over my land to speed them up. that was fine with me, i loved having the extra hammers at a time i didn't even know steam power.

My first attempt is going well. I don't know if I'm going to win, but I think I'll survive to the end of the game. I'm playing with the Inland Sea map, I share religion with the two AI near me. I could use religion without risking war since the beginning. I have just two religions. I hope that is enough.

I was afraid of getting boxed out. I built a lot of cities early in the game to claim territory. That costed me a lot of gold. I fell really behind tech early in the game, but I got the Pyramids, run Representation and SE economy. My science slider went down to 30% just to finance my expansion. With lightbulb and tech trade, I am now at the same tech level as the AI.

I could not found any religion. My only real attempt was with Islam. I got an Enginner from the Pyramids and built the Angkor Wat, then I run three Priests and waited for the Great Prophet. I thought one Great Prophet would give me the tech, well, I was wrong. The time it took to research the rest of it, another civ found Islam. I just hope the Angkor Wat won't give me another Great Prophet. If I had founded Islam, I would just build a Shrine. Now, I will be just :mad:.

At least I won the Liberalism race by 1166 AD. I got Nacionalism as free tech and traded for Printing Press. I'm now researching Banking. If I see any chance of getting to Economics first, I'll try to get the Great Merchant. Extra money does not hurt.

I have two approaches to tech in this game:
1) The religious route where I try to found Polytheism and then build an early Stonehenge and Oracle.
2) The non-religious route where I focus on Bronze Working and land improvement techs to get capital up and running

The religious route sounds like a good idea in a culture game but somehow it never seems to generate very good results. I think this is because I get stuck in a rut when building those early wonders (and then get overrun by barbarians when I only have 3 warriors guarding two cities in 1250 BC).

Harbourboy, try turing off barbs ;) I've been doing that and been doing much better thanks to not needing to worry about the barbs at all...in a culture game, the barbs seem to bother me more than they did the AI.

Can't decide if I should take all the risks to get the best game I can, or play it safe and not ruin a good start. I never go for monotheism so early, so I have the option of Organized Religion early. Should I:

a) risk war by taking on a religion this early and have 25% production boost?
b) chicken out
c) other?

If I wait for Alphabet, I can trade tech and make people happy with me.

You won't get a war instantly. If you can get a big profit (usually not the case), do it. If they ask you to convert, do it. This is "only" monarch, don't worry too much. It took >30 turns for me till the AI declared war last time. ;-)

A few suggestions if you don't mind. Please note, I'm no expert on culture victories, so take this as you wish.

(and then get overrun by barbarians when I only have 3 warriors guarding two cities in 1250 BC)

First off, why do you have barbs turned on? Since I'm trying to get my three cities up fast I don't want the worry of barbs, so they're turned off. Remember, according to the HoF Rules (http://72.36.239.244/civ4/rules.php), barbs are optional.

The religious route where I try to found Polytheism and then build an early Stonehenge and Oracle.

I don't bother even trying for the early religions. IMO it's a waste of turns when I could be getting Pottery, Writing, and Alphabet. Once I have Writing I sign OB with anyone who has a religion in the hopes that it'll pass my way. Granted, some times I have to wait a long time for it to happen, but its still not worth researching it IMO. Also, I stay clear of most wonders as I don't want to pollute my :gp: pool with non-artist points. The only wonder I build that doesn't provide artist points is the Pyramids for the government civics. Other than that, other wonders aren't worth it IMO.

The non-religious route where I focus on Bronze Working and land improvement techs to get capital up and running

Remember your main focus on this game is culture, not military. IMO there is no reason to bother with the metal techs, except for forest chopping. I've found that the AI tend to trade BW, so I see no reason to research it myself when I can get it in trade later. IW is the same way. I may have to wait longer to get it, but that doesn't seem to be a problem. Honestly, I'm always way behind in military strength compared to the AI (I'm typically in last place), but it doesn't cause a problem. Between choosing the peaceful opponents and my trade bonuses I'm usually well liked.

The religious route sounds like a good idea in a culture game but somehow it never seems to generate very good results.

I've learned this myself, hence my reason now that I don't even bother.

Hopefully the expert culture players come along and either give better advice, or point out my errors. Granted, this early in the competition, they might be hesitant. ;)

I just won at 1849. This was my 4th attempt. It took me a while to figure how to go through at game without killing a civ. :)

One of my Cultural city was only a 6. heh.

152268

After reading godotnot's article, (http://www.civfanatics.com/civ4/strategy/peaceful_deity_cultural.php)I was able pull it off. The main points are to rush to the Pyramids and BUY the religious buildings.

1 gold left in your treasury on the final turn. now that is what i call an efficient budget! grats :)

1 gold left in your treasury on the final turn. now that is what i call an efficient budget! grats :)

:lol: Didn't notice that. Well done.

1 gold left in your treasury on the final turn. now that is what i call an efficient budget! grats :)
Efficient budget? Nah, he just went flat broke and found a coin on the sidewalk.

1 gold left in your treasury on the final turn. now that is what i call an efficient budget! grats :)

wow, you do have a money problem. Didnt you have a holy city, or at least trade with the ai for gold. For me, at 100% income-> culture, i still generate like 50+ gold/ turn in the last tens of turns

geez, yeah i had to go 80% when i stopped researching tech. I didnt have a holy city either. I never got a prophet. I got most of my gold from selling my tech. I never knew the AI gave so much for your techs. I got 3k for some tech.

wow, you do have a money problem. Didnt you have a holy city, or at least trade with the ai for gold. For me, at 100% income-> culture, i still generate like 50+ gold/ turn in the last tens of turns

no that was my point. money left over when the game is done is completely wasted. so 1g on the final turn is perfect! maybe he had a money problem all along, but 1g at the end isn't a problem at all, it's a good thing.

Efficient budget? Nah, he just went flat broke and found a coin on the sidewalk.

well, my father would consider it perfect :p. i'm one of four children, and dad's plan, or so he says, is to die with one dollar left over, so that we each get 25 cents to spend on whatever we want. because he wants to use and enjoy his money while he's alive. i've seen his will and he's joking. i think. *giggle*

he is addicted to civ4 so he'd definitely approve of that game.

Can't decide if I should take all the risks to get the best game I can, or play it safe and not ruin a good start. I never go for monotheism so early, so I have the option of Organized Religion early. Should I:

a) risk war by taking on a religion this early and have 25% production boost?
b) chicken out
c) other?

If I wait for Alphabet, I can trade tech and make people happy with me.

Go for it, a), it is only Monarch. In the worst case you will have to build a few units.

In your previous post you talked about building the Oracle:eek: . Why are you trying to mislead us?:p Learn from Methos, his pieces of advice are sincere and sound.

Hmm, so much of the advice in this thread runs counter what I would instinctively choose to do in order to maximise culture. I also would find it hard to turn off barbarians as I have played with barbarians through all four versions of Civilisation and would feel like a weaner if I removed their threat.

I'm also trying to work out why the threat of military invasion seems to evaporate in these culture games. In my normal games I get invaded all the time, but have much better military power. In these culture games, I have lame armies, but nobody attacks me (except barbarians). Why is this? Or am I just dreaming and it is actually not really different?

I'm in my second war with one of my neighbours (playing inland sea) and have already fought off my other neighbour. This isn't going well on the relationship front. Going to abandon it and try continents.

Hey Harbourboy and the other not-yet-pros,
you can learn VERY much by looking at the best games/guys listed in the HoF!

For example take a look at the 1365AD WastinTime Deity standard game.
You can see his settings, the playerlog, his map, take a look at the culture graph (there you can see when he started acculmulating culture and how much is from bombing at the end)... and most important download his finish save!
This is my favorite, the longer you analyse the more precisely you can read his strategy. At first you, that his economy "sucks": almost no worker, SO few military. That's because he built only stuff, that he really needed. You'll see that he has only 2-3 religions and ONLY his capitol is built the way you'd expect (>700 culture per turn).
So where does the culture in the other two cities come from?
It must be by Great Artists(GA) only! He used almost all of his cities to produce GAs or money. I could continue analysing techs, buildings and wonders, but you should be able to see it on your own now.
All this data should enable you to copy his strategy, but think twice!
His settings differ; mostly in difficulty and speed:
-monarch means slower tech, because the Ai is slower than you, so you have to research more on your own
-It is also much easier to get religions and wonders, so you want pyramids and sistine chapel perhaps
-quick means that his GAs bomb 2680 of necessary 25000 culture, on epic you get 6000 of 75000, so it's 34% less efficient.

I hope I have enough time left to build a strategy on that after I wrote some applications for internship and chose the topic for my student research project.

@Airny: That Diety/quick strategy of GA bombs won't work on Epic speed. You need at least a 2nd city that is producing decent culture.

@jesusin: What's not to like about the Oracle? The only reason I don't get it on Diety is because I can't, they're too fast. If you did build it, it would have to be in the capitol and that corrupts your gene pool for the GA bomb strategy. Oracle is a cheap wonder that produces 16 culture most of the game. You've probably got marble for it too. It gets you CS/bureaucracy quickly. That's nice since you have to do most of the tech yourself at this level. The only thing is the gene pool, but I never produce even 1 great prophet. The Oracle city is chosen such that it spends the game growing cottages or building stuff. not running specialists. I still got 18 Great Artists and 1 scientist without that city contributing in my first game. If I did get one prophet that wouldn't be so bad. Some people are trying to get one it seems for a shrine. I don't bother with shrines. I just trade for all the gold I need to run at 100% slider. I'd rather have another artist bomb.
The shrine also pollutes your gene pool.

@WastinTime: That's what I said, but as you pointed out GAs are a must have.

@WastinTime: That's what I said, but as you pointed out GAs are a must have.

Yea you did say that :blush: , you had a very good analysis of my game.

Regarding my option to take an early religion. I realized that Judaism doesn't come with a free missionary, so it wasn't worth it to switch to a religion. I can turn on Organized Religion and build missionaries without making anyone mad at me. I just don't get the +25% hammers.

Well, I didn't make it. Cyrus launched in 1905 when I had only 56,00 culture.

Time for another attempt. It is 400 BC and I have 4 cities. Just completed Alphabet and done the big trading catch up with everyone. Two of my cities are miles away to cut off the peninsula. Cyrus has foolishly settled right next to my capital so that should be an easy flip.

Currently researching drama at 60%. No more cities practical until Code of Laws. Available wonders are Parthenon, Artemis, and Pyramids - but no stone apparent on whole continent.

I shaved almost a full century off my finish date, breaking into the 1400's. I doubt I can get 1300's though.

I'm not convinced that going all the way to Democracy (free with Lib) was the right choice. I only bought 4 cathedrals..nothing else. I built 5 more for a total of 9. Five religions founded...Zero spread to me.

I got only 15 GA's this time and the usual GS first.

I suppose for my last try I will have to find stone and marble. Do the Pyramids and forget Democracy. One good thing about teching there was you have something to trade for Economics and Corporation, etc. I also used tech trades to get cash for rush buying. I spent zero turns generating cash with the slider.

I got all my usual wonders plus Versailles.

I settled one GA as a super specialist and would have done 2, but I needed to flip the city nearby, so I bombed. I really needed that city because I only built 4 settlers...so with the capitol and that flipped one I had six. There was no other food around, so another city wouldn't do much for me.

1400s? Wow. And now here is someone saying that the way to do this to found the religions yourself. It is amazing that there are so many different ways to play this game - even when using the same level, speed, map size, and victory confition. Civ IV is indeed a well balanced game.

Well I got my first Major win. Not the best time, as I barely won before 1900AD. I know I teched too far (all the way to AssLine) I was just too nervous of getting pounded by the AI...

The highlight was, I was able to found 5 of the 7 religions. I ended up with 5 Cathedrals in each of my 3 culture cities. No small feat! :)

Hmm, another person who founded religions. Maybe I should go back to my original plan of going down the religious route. In 400BC, I still have no religions as I pretty much beelined for Alphabet and now Drama, backfilling the other techs via trading. No religions have spread to me, although I think 3 of them have been founded elsewhere.

I should have no problems getting space for 9 cities now that I have blocked off the peninsula (although Stonehenge would have been really helpful with that).

Several people keep mentioning Drama. Am I the only one that does not research it? I wait until I can trade it. (which is a very long time). Usually sometime while I'm researching Liberalism. Sometimes I have to research it myself after Lib/Nationalism.

Isn't Drama crucial for a culture win? Don't you want to get Theatres up early as well as have access to the culture slider?

Is this yet another example of the counter-intuitive thinking required to achieve superhumanly fast Cultural victory dates?

I'm doomed if the solution to everyting is to do the opposite of what I would naturally expect to do.......

I think that researching Drama depends on whether you are financial or philosophical.

If you're financial, you're likely to not be using the culture slider as you are more likely to be rush-buying the religious buildings that give you your culture. In which case you can wait well after Liberalism until you need Drama.

If you're philosophical, you're more likely to be using the culture slider straight after Liberalism and using GAs for the bulk of your culture, in which case you want Drama before Liberalism.

My 2nd attempt has great promise. Capitol has corn, gold, gold, six flood plains and wine.

2nd city has pig, wheat, marble, so I expect to get Oracle, Parthenon.


i see that one of my problems is that i am not picky enough with my starting position...
anyway 1742AD in my second cultural win ever...

Several people keep mentioning Drama. Am I the only one that does not research it?.

I don't bother researching it and instead just trade for it.

@WastinTime: When did you complete Liberalism?

Good question Methos.
I found out that in most of the top games they researched liberalism quite exactly around 500AD. That is fast and you should make it one of your goals.
After that you can think of getting drama, earlier you dont need the slider and your cities have enough to work on (religious buildings and granaries).

Good question Methos.
I found out that in most of the top games they researched liberalism quite exactly around 500AD.

I completed Liberalism in 740 AD, so it looks like I'm way behind. Either way, that game may be over anyway. I almost have all my cultural buildings up, just a few more stupas to build/rush and than I'm good. Only problem is, Roosevelt demanded :gold: from me and I said no, there goes my first war! No ones willing to help me out, so this one may be a lost. I should have given in, but I'm in the middle of rushing everything.

Oh well, I'll check it later and see if it can be salvaged.

Here's my thinking. You're should run 100% science until after you complete liberalism, so you don't need the culture slider. Theaters are very nice but you can use caste system to run artists. I pretty sure it's more important to get your religion beelines and even Music first. Then you could take drama, but for some reason I wait and hope to get it for free from a trade.

I don't think I got Liberalism/Democracy until around 800 AD. I'll have to check. Normally I finish Liberalism/Nationalism around 300-400 AD.

Yes, liberalism with free Democracy was 830 AD.

@jesusin: What's not to like about the Oracle? The only reason I don't get it on Diety is because I can't, they're too fast. If you did build it, it would have to be in the capitol and that corrupts your gene pool for the GA bomb strategy.

I am too used to Deity-Quick. Since I don't get many cities, all of them contribute to GA generation. I gave in to temptation once and built Oracle after Parthenon, it took me only 5 turns, I couldn't resist. After that, half of my GA were GP. I run away from Oracle since then.

Several people keep mentioning Drama. Am I the only one that does not research it? I wait until I can trade it. (which is a very long time). Usually sometime while I'm researching Liberalism. Sometimes I have to research it myself after Lib/Nationalism.

I usually suffer from lack of things to offer in trade after CoL. Then, I can't get Literature in trades for a long time, and that hurts my GPfarm. And then I hate researching Drama after Liberalism. That's why I tend to research Drama first, in order to trade it for Literature. It feels like a mistake, though.



Time for another attempt. It is 400 BC and I have 4 cities. Just completed Alphabet and done the big trading catch up with everyone.

Catch up? If you have one gold or one gems in your start, you should be getting Alphabet before any AI has Writing yet.

If you wait to trade for Literature on Diety you will never get 1st to music. I didn't think about trying that on this level. It's also nice to start the Nat. Epic ASAP. So, I research Lit obviously.

Well, I am now onto my 9th attempt at this game. The previous 8 attempts have ended as follows:
- 3 barbarian sackings
- 1 Montezuma backstab
- 2 space race losses
- 2 where I gave up due to poor starts

In my 9th attempt I am at 1350 AD. I have 7 cities with another three going to flip my way one day, plus some unused space where I could still build another. I made it Liberalism in 900AD but was beaten by 11 turns by Catherine. I missed out on Pyramids by 3 turns, Great Library by 6 turns, and Parthenon by 9 turns. Consequently, I have no World Wonder, but buckets of cash.

I founded Polytheism and Taoism but still have no shrines. I am 17 turns away from Democracy, at which point I will turn off the research for the culture acceleration. My best city has only 3,500 culture at the moment, so I am still a million miles away from those people who manage to be almost finished by this date.

Biggest threats will be Catherine or Roosevelt’s space race, or Genghis Khan attacking me as he hates me.

I like your spirit harbourboy. You're probably the only one playing with barbarians on. It also appears you might be playing random opponents instead of the hand-picked friendly ones. I wish more gauntlets required these options. It would be a different game I think. A fun change too.

I should add that I have finally given in and turned off barbarians for the first time in 15 years of Civilisation in this 9th attempt. You are right that I am playing random opponents. Not sure I could ever sell out and actually choose my opponents. Half the fun is not knowing who is going to show up next!

Well I was the unlucky 13th to submit a game in this major (and its less than halfway over) :eek:

After losing 3 games as Frederick (vanilla) by being declared on by staying in Pacifism too long, I tried a new strategy using Huayana (warlords). I got the win but in a not so flash time 1770AD. Had terrible luck with GPs, 2 of my last 3 were a GE (from Pyramids) at less than 10% and GS (from the AI employing a scientist for a few turns without me realising :mad:) at less than 5%.

I don't think the industrious trait works for me as I hardly went for any wonders.

Defiantely going for this again. I might give Fred another chance to impress. :lol:

I wish I could achieve a "not so flash" time of 1770AD....

Harbourboy: you're giving yourself extra handicaps. when you win, if it's 1402 or 2049 AD, that will be amazing. the people with those quick dates don't take the chance of meeting monty or cathy around the corner i'm sure.

in other news: sid meier hates me. what did i ever do to him???

the background, so that you understand why this is such terrible torture: i am a very superstitious person. always knocking on wood, no hats on the bed, you name it. it is now after midnight, but at time these events occurred it was my birthday. i guess it's the thought that counts, and i wasn't a superstitious person it probably would be a very nice gift.

so, i finally get around to starting this gauntlet. i debate about who to be, and roll up a map as elizabeth, my usual, but can't find any marble. i finally find some, on a flatland plains, and move my settler 1S to settle directly on it, to save time quarrying it and save some of the juicy floodplains in the north for another city. i am rewarded for my chance by three squares of tundra in my capital now. there are floodplains just 2 squares north, and i get tundra!

after that i just can't get a map i'm happy with. i decide the game's on monarch after all, i'll try something different and play huayna. industrious should let me get the wonders that i want without having to reroll endlessly for marble, and he's a cool guy. and this is the very first start i get with him.

http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p285/kmadcandy/sidhatesme.jpgi cannot possibly play that map. i have it set to no barbs but i'm quite certain they'll appear on my doorstep in 2000 BC with modern armor with that kind of luck. i saved it at 4000 AD and then played it for a half hour since that probably looks better than just generating it and quitting, just in case i someday change my mind someday far far in the future. then i saved it again and put it away. forever. if i play that map and lose i am doomed for all eternity :lol:. that start has "permanent jinx" written all over it. i basically have to pretend it doesn't exist.

i think i'll try a few more map regens with liz. maybe gandhi. not HC, he's on my hit list.

[QUOTE=kovacsflo;5382732]I could imagine only one reason why I would attack an enemy in cultural game: lack of religion. [QUOTE]
What if a creative Civ is born 8 tiles away from your capital? They are going to eat half of the good city sites and their culture is going to affect the rest.
I could have regenerated, of course, but I tend to finish every cultural game I start.

Jesusin, Vanilla, Eliz, Inner sea, tropical, cultural victory in 1577, 10 hours.
Sugar and marble only, should I restart? Move to PH, see gold and rice in the fat cross, settle there. Food less capital, I don’t like this kind of game. Then I explore and see I have moved away from pigs and corn. Should I restart? Let’s keep on.

Creative AI just by my side, I have either to kill them to have double amount of good land, or regenerate. Break my Alphabet beeline to get BW, settle my second city near copper, build Axes from both my cities, lose 7 of the 8 Axes, take their capital. 7Axes in exchange for 4 workers and a city is not bad, but I had been delaying my granaries for too long… mixed feelings.

Research: Wheel-BW-Pottery -Alphabet-CoL-CS-Music-Paper-DivRig-Liber(PP for free)-Natio-no more research.

1000BC: 3 cities only! 26bpt, 1 cottage.
1AD: 7 cities, 135bpt, 11 cottages.
1000AD: 10 cities, 200cpt per city, 23 cottages, only 6GP, 3 Cathedrals, almost Hermitage.

Religion: Founded conf, tao and islam, one more spread.
GPP: 2GS, Academy and Philo. All GA next, for a total of 17.
Wonders: None. Well a couple of them post 1000AD.

Caste System: For the first time I went directly to Caste System, without revolting to Slavery first. It made sense, since my capital was so food poor. I was nice having border expansion in 4 turns after settling a new city, so I didn’t need to whip an Obelisk. But being unable to whip a granary was a pain.
Around 500AD I revolted to Slavery for 5 turns and then went back to Caste System. I whipped 30 people in those 5 turns. I think I should have done that once again around 1000AD.

Second city: I had always settled my second city to be a Legendary one. It was a production one this time. It wasn’t bad, it built settlers, workers and missionaries non stop.
GPfarm: It was not one of the 3 Legendary. It took me long to set it up, it was my 5th city. NE as late as 260AD.
GA settling: I settled 3 of them, the last one in 860AD after lots of doubts, it added 5100c and 300g, shouldn’t have been settled.

End of research by 755AD (late, late, late!), 100% culture 905AD, I used those turns to stockpile 2000g to finance my 100%.

Cathedrals: 14 in the end, but only 3 when I went 100% culture. I was doing 200cpt per city at the time. 600-600-450cpt at 1350AD.

My problems:
- Bad exploration (no mapping the coast) meant no AI connections, so no religions spread. Two finally spread, but it was post 1000AD.
- Scarce religions made me step out of my way to get Islam.
- Too few workers (9), most of my trees were there at the end of the game.
- Bad AI research rate meant I couldn’t help but found religions. Also I had to reseach Natio myself and take PP from Liberalism cause they were too slow for Machinery, even though I gifted them MC.
- War between Asoka and Hatty damaged my relations with both.
- Poor AI, they couldn’t finance my 100% culture bar.
- Only 4 grasslands in the capital, scarcity of cottages. And then 3 of the 7 FP of my chosen Legendary city happened not to be FP but Deserts with water (WHAT?????). I really felt compelled to regenerate… but I kept on.
- One of the 3 was hammer poor. I decided to start the first cathedral of each set in this city, so that it had time to finish it. It was good because every city was always working on a Cathedral, and no Cathedrals were queued. But it was this city the bombed one, so it would have been better to build the Cathedral in the best city first.
- I didn’t plan ahead till 830AD. Then I realized that it was better to settle the artist that had been sitting for ten turns, than to keep him for bombing. What a waste! I settled 3, bombed the rest.
- I didn’t revolt to Mercantilism. “Economy is just a few turns away, let’s save a turn”. Ha. It took them 21 turns to get to Economy.

In my next game I will try to be peaceful, I won’t go after Islam. I don’t know what to do with Music yet.

@Dianthus. Thank you for this wonderful Major. Now, I wish you had chosen Quick speed or at least Normal. Epic takes too long. I can understand that Epic is good for Large Maps if your are going for Conquest or Domination, but in a cultural game we don’t move so many units around…Also, each change of Civics takes 1 turn, there are no savings if you change 2 or more Civics at a time. This takes a strategic factor out of the equation. I am having fun anyway, thanks again.

Next game: Trying not to found religions so that everybody spreads their on towards me hasn’t been a success, I will try to found an early one next time. I have been 222 turns researching, 10 turns wasted by need of money, 103 turns amassing culture. Obviously I need better teching.

I shaved almost a full century off my finish date, breaking into the 1400's. I doubt I can get 1300's though.
...
I really needed that city because I only built 4 settlers...so with the capitol and that flipped one I had six. There was no other food around, so another city wouldn't do much for me.

Congratulations.

Now I don’t have a secret weapon anymore. I was planning to do a 6 cities try after a “normal” 9 cities. Anyway, too many plans in my head and only 1 game submitted… and GOTM is here…

Would you like to clarify some more details of your game, please? (either now or when the gauntlet is over):
- Was your GPfarm a Legendary city?
- What’s your city building order, Legendary-Legendary-Legendary-GPfarm-Auxiliary maybe?
- When do you start using specialists in your GPfarm? I always think that hiring specialists before the HE is up is a waste, but then my GPfarm starts pumping GA very late.

I should add that I have finally given in and turned off barbarians for the first time in 15 years of Civilisation in this 9th attempt. You are right that I am playing random opponents. Not sure I could ever sell out and actually choose my opponents. Half the fun is not knowing who is going to show up next!

I think Inland sea is better for random opponents, you will have to worry really about two only. This map has a lot of rivers, so it's easy to connect resources. I played once a Prince cultural game (normal speed), with random opponents, barbs on, I got Toku and Alex on a small map and I won around 1900. I played with Liz (Vanilla), researched until Rifling for the Redcoats, fought about three wars. The first war was to gain territory, the Asoka was my victim. My other neighbor was Alex, I made him Friendly and Asoka mad. ;) It's easy to defend when you know the city that will be attacked. It hurts when you need to use the money you were saving to buy cathedrals to upgrade troops. I got my revanche, my pal Alex and Asoka's neighbor Toku destroyed the Indian civilization and my problems were over.

Finished the guantlet. I did some reading in the forums about how to get a cultural victory (and other victories with a decent score). I've never taken the time to read strategy before, which has made me a mediocre player, especially with the "new" victory conditions. I've picked up lots of bad habits throughout the Civ series (I've played all) and am finally trying to shake them.

Anyway, I'm getting better. On my 3rd attempt I finished the gauntlet in 1794AD with Ghandi on continents. Founded 4 religions, picked up a 5th from my neighbours. Eventually everyone on my continent changed to Christianity (the religion I didn't found), so that made relations easy. I sort of went through 4 phases:
1. Technology drive and Wonder production.
2. Cultural slider up, building religious improvements and spreading religion. I wanted to buy them, but didn't have enough gold generation. Production was decent though, and the smaller cities still had forests to chop.
3. Cultural slider down, max gold, buy the remaining buildings and cathedrals(gold production was decent now).
4. Cultural slider up to the end with culture bombs.

My GP farm could have been better (I picked the wrong spot), but still got 8 GA. Used 6 as bombs.

Eventually everyone on my continent changed to Christianity (the religion I didn't found), so that made relations easy.

grats for winning your game! but i don't understand this line. the fact that it was one you didn't found made relations easy? :confused:

Congratulations.
- Was your GPfarm a Legendary city?
- What’s your city building order, Legendary-Legendary-Legendary-GPfarm-Auxiliary maybe?
- When do you start using specialists in your GPfarm? I always think that hiring specialists before the HE is up is a waste, but then my GPfarm starts pumping GA very late.

GPfarm is always legendary.

build order: Capitol (legendary), production city (legend), GPfarm (legend), smaller GPfarm, smaller GPfarm, flipped city or another GPfarm.

I only run an artist or two somewhere early on to prevent the Oracle (or Pyramid) city from producing a GP. If my Legendary GP city has built the Nat Epic and grown to max size, I'll obviously run artists there. Otherwise I wait until I switch to Pacifism...which I usually do when the N. Epic finishes.

Thank you for your answers, WastinTime, they are greatly appreciated.

I keep on looking for the fundamental difference between our way of playing cultural games, and I can't find them. Maybe I should go one step further than Airny and not only look at your final save, but load your initial save, play the game on your map and then compare both games.


By the way, Airny, final saves can be very deceiving. One can make a lot of strange things in the final turns like:
- Starve a city so that it gives birth to its last GA sooner.
- Change all artists to merchants when the city has spit its last GA
- Change a farm to cottage in a Legendary city because there will be no time for it to starve.
- Change towns to farms when the city is already Legendary to transform it into a lastminute GPfarm.
- Disband workers because they are a pain to move every turn when there is really nothing left to do.
- Chop the forest you have been keeping for health in order to build a last monastery.
- And so on...

I know jesusin... explaining that now:
I just finished my 2nd try 1808AD, later than my first intuitive one. :(
Managed to get the Slingshot and founded 4 religions.
I finished Liberalism 1106AD, ok that's bad. Should've skipped DivineRight.
But how do you research so fast without representation and cottagespam?
I think this is one part I somehow misinterpreted.
I doubt that just improving research to 500AD lib will get me what I want.
I used the build order WastinTime uses (Capitol (legendary), production city (legend), GPfarm (legend), smaller GPfarm, smaller GPfarm, flipped city or another GPfarm) and focussed on producing GAs, had pacifism running
and working everywhere.
The ingame statistics don't work, so I don't know how many GP I got.
Did anyone calculate till when you should settle your artists?
I also miss something that tells me how turns and years correspond depending on gamespeed.

I'm not sure, should I go for
stone->pyramids->representation to boost my research while getting GAs
or I try
marble->cottage spam->parthenon and other useful buildings.

grats for winning your game! but i don't understand this line. the fact that it was one you didn't found made relations easy? :confused:

I mean that I didn't discover it, but it spread to my civ.

Research:

Your capitol does it all. You need to have at least 2 commerce resources (gold/gems...sometimes silver or fur can work). You need to prioritize the Academy, Bureaucracy, and the Library in that city. Also put your cottages up there first. Grow the capitol to the max happiness ASAP. Let your other cities build military, workers/settlers. If you beeline through the tree properly, you should finish before 500 AD. You could probably finish by 1 AD if you skipped all optional paths like Theology, Music, Div Right, PPress. Someone should try that...Slingshot to CS, get Alphabet, Philo, Paper, Edu, Liber (free Nat) Done.

There's also a strategy where you research only CS, Alpha, Philo, Nationalism. Done! Well, you need Music early too for the GA and to build lots of Cathedrals. You definitely don't need the Oracle for this short path. You'd probably even get Divine right in this case...and Monotheism/Theology for all the extra religions.

Aaaargh. Attempt number 9 ended with a Roosevelt Space Race loss in 1868. My three cities were all on about 64,000 culture going at about 500 per turn, with two artists in reserve. So less than 20 turns away from winning!

I have my doubts about my ability to win on Monarch, but I'm going to give this one a go.

I thought I had the win, but it has been rejected for reloading:(

I know a can do another win, but maybe someone can help me prevent this in the future. I ran the gameplay log after the win again and saw this:
Session 2: 4000BC
Session 3: 485AD
Session 4: 890AD
Session 5: 1400AD

I'm guessing it's because of the 4000BC one. I used mapfinder (for the first time), and then loaded one of the saves. Am I right, did this cause the rejection? How do I prevent it from happening again?

Thanks

Ok, time to start my 10th attempt at this. The main things I plan to do differently are:
- found Polytheism and build Stonehenge. I need Stonehenge for the early land grab and to get the Great Prophets I need for...
- rush to Theology and get Sistine Chapel

Seeing as I only lost by 20 turns, I think Sistine Chapel will make the difference for me. The extra culture from Stonehenge won't hurt either. Remember that I had no world wonders in that last game.

Am I right, did this cause the rejection? How do I prevent it from happening again?

Thanks

First off, I highly suggest you leave these sort of questions out of the public forums. We've received your email and are currently discussing it. Hence, your lack of a reply. Again, the proper channels are hof.civfanatics@gmail.com and if we haven't replied within twenty-four hours than PM us.

Secondly, MapFinder is provided to you all via the HoF Site and partially included with the mod. Therefore it only makes sense that we would allow saves created using MapFinder. MapFinder does not and will not cause a game to be rejected.

First off, I highly suggest...
...that we would allow saves created using MapFinder. MapFinder does not and will not cause a game to be rejected.

You're right, this is off topic for this forum. Sorry about that.

I actually finished a major!!! :eek:

Granted the year was 1920 and I only had 4 cities and one religion (and was sweating the space race), but 1st major I was able to do! I actually attached the sad end map for anyone curious as to how pitifuls like me stumbled about it!

Wow, you were lucky to not have a space ship launched on you before 1920.

I am now on my 16th attempt at this game.

Currently in 1600 AD, with my cities at about 20,000 culture. I did manage to get Sistine Chapel for once (at last), but my two nearest neighbours (Stalin and Mansa Musa) both really dislike me so I'm toast if they attack.

I actually finished a major!!! :eek:

Granted the year was 1920 and I only had 4 cities and one religion (and was sweating the space race), but 1st major I was able to do! I actually attached the sad end map for anyone curious as to how pitifuls like me stumbled about it!

oh dear i'm not sure how to say this. first off, grats! :) if you did it once, you can do it again!

i add that last bit because when i tried to load your game, warlords told me that i'd have to load HoF 2.08.003. this gauntlet requires the new version, 2.08.004 :(

i sooooo hope i'm not ruining your day! if you did it with 4 cities and one religion, that is an outstanding accomplishment, the word pitiful does not apply! that's why i downloaded the save in fact. i have no doubt you can win again. almost three weeks left. please don't hate me, i figured it was best to know ASAP.

Finally! :) My 16th attempt at G-Major 11 and I eventually managed to piece together a cultural victory (Elizabeth on Fractal), with my second and third cities both reaching legendary status at 1872 AD, thus, ironically, leaving my reserve Great Artist high and dry and not required to boost the third city.

Big changes from my previous attempts were the completion of Stonehenge, Pyramids, and Sistine Chapel, as well as winning the race to Liberalism. This was mainly achieved by having a dedicated research path and not bothering to research anything that was not directly on the path to those objectives, safe in the realisation that the AI pays through the nose for advanced techs and you can easily backfill all the other stuff.

I am still perplexed as to how it could be humanly possible to finish 100s of turns earlier than this, but for now I am glad to get this one out of the way so I can take a break. Phew! :crazyeye:

Finally! :) My 16th attempt at G-Major 11 and I eventually managed to piece together a cultural victory (Elizabeth on Fractal), with my second and third cities both reaching legendary status at 1872 AD, thus, ironically, leaving my reserve Great Artist high and dry and not required to boost the third city.

Big changes from my previous attempts were the completion of Stonehenge, Pyramids, and Sistine Chapel, as well as winning the race to Liberalism. This was mainly achieved by having a dedicated research path and not bothering to research anything that was not directly on the path to those objectives, safe in the realisation that the AI pays through the nose for advanced techs and you can easily backfill all the other stuff.

I am still perplexed as to how it could be humanly possible to finish 100s of turns earlier than this, but for now I am glad to get this one out of the way so I can take a break. Phew! :crazyeye:


:goodjob: I really admire your determination for not giving up

Well done Harbourboy :goodjob:

Yeah. What they said. Congratulations :hatsoff:

Congrats, it's also a nice date for your first finish.

I finally decided to use MapFinder to get a few starts. Occaisionally I'd glance at the computer to check on it, when I noticed that it had stopped for some reason. Looking at the map I couldn't understand why it stopped, as you can see here:

http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/54475/Odd_Placement.JPG

It wasn't until I looked closer at my warriors starting position that I noticed this:

http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/54475/Odd_Placement_2.JPG

Odd that both times MapFinder quit due to contact it was with Victoria.

I had something similar happen to me and if I founded where my settler was, Korea would not have been able to build a city. They would be stuck until my border pop teleported them elsewhere.

this post is spoilered to save space since i'm quite insane and that's easier for me than to actually, like, not type and not post stuff. i do humbly request that harbourboy and superslug please read it at least in part when you have the time/patience to deal with my rambling style, by now you know how i am. i do talk address you both :).

well done harbourboy, i knew you could do it! i am very curious ... who did you end up with as neighbors and overall opponents in this game? how mean were they to you, and did they help you backfill techs thru trading? i depend on my handpicked fast teching peaceful types for backfilling some junk; for example, i just went thru the "hand out metalcasting to 'em all now that some finally researched it and was willing to trade it to me" phase. i mean i was working on education at this point, come on you slowpokes!! i want everybody to have it, to increase the chances i can mooch machinery to save time getting PP. your style is obviously much different, and more flexible so i'm very very impressed. here i shall be totally rude, you can feel free to say no, but if you're in the mood and don't mind uploading the final save, i'd get a kick out of looking it over. quite presumptuous of me to ask tho, shame on me!! please don't tell my mother.

you can do it too superslug! just remember ... make artists, not nukes. :culture: good, :nuke: bad for this gauntlet. this personally-tailored graphical service announcement is not under copyright and may be printed as a reminder if that might be helpful ;). if you feel the need to nuke, do that when you need a break, but be aware it will almost certainly not help you achieve a cultural victory if you do it in your actual gauntlet attempt game. see below for a case when i myself have decided to do that, and i've never even nuked before! in fact ... may i PM you for advice about the most satisfying way to do it for revenge *giggle*?

my current game is verrrry odd. first tries were as gandhi and i'd get sidetracked on the "oh let's found this religion, let's try for that one, let's stack the deck with opponents who don't know mysticism, lalala". i had some really pretty map starts (almost hafe with marble visible on the starting turn!!!) but none worked out. thankfully none had a more than a few hours invested before i considered them not worth continuing. in thursday's game, victoria DoWd from halfway across the map in one and took my sistine chapel city. i hate her i hate her i hate her, and when i'm done with (or need a break from) this gauntlet i will play a game against up to 6 victorias and kill them all, painfully and starting with sneak attacks, making them think we are good friends right up to "got you now, you many-names-i-wouldn't-say-in-front-of-mother!" with her repeated as a leader, it's obviously not eligible for HoF and i just might not check LMA and let myself cheat if i feel i need it or if it would make me more satisfied. once all instances of her die relatively legitimately, i will reload from a save prior to that point and give myself 50 zillion nukes and blow her to bits, simply because i've never tried that and she seems the perfect victim for my first experience.

so today's try, still in progress, i'm playing as liz (altho my name is IHateVicky), she's my usual in the past, but i'm having tendencies to play and improve the land as tho i'm gandhi. i miss his fast workers so badly, and have to remind myself to be much more careful about changing civics. get this ... i have my usual suspects in the game, fast techers that trade early and often, and i began the game telling myself "do NOT go off chasing early religions, trust that they will naturally spread to a city or two. keep to your alphabet/liberalism/turn off research and culture up beeline, do not pass go..

but in this game, my starting warrior popped mysticism out of a hut on turn 3! this was of course a sign from the gods that had not yet visited our world to deviate from the standard beeline, so i changed research to poly, and london is the hindu holy city. buddhism was founded rather late, 3340 BC, i assume the indians were teching poly like me and lost that race. the founder of buddhism was ... mansa musa! i assume he got a myst from a hut too. asoka and gandhi must have been shocked and dismayed. no religions have been founded by either of them to date (only islam is still out there). hatty got judaism (quite common), george got theology after getting a great prophet, and i got to CoL first even tho i missed the oracle. strange universe for sure! wicked fun so far, and we'll see how it turns out. i'm knocking on wood, but i love that it's fun even tho i know i may not reach my goal of winning, props and thanks to whoever picked this gauntlet. the deity diplo was that way for me too; the highlands time victory was not, but i recognized that early on and didn't spend much time on it. variety is good, that's not a complaint, it's a thank you.

the posts here sooooooo help me improve. you guys rock! each attempt i learn more, and do something(s) better than before, mostly due to what i read here, and how the advice sinks in more when i try it. despite the fact that victory was a you-know-what and ruined my day and my beautiful city. and even there, i whipped up and got to the front lines enough troops to beat off the first sneak attack wave, and that made me proud, i've never even tried that in a cultural game, usually it's "trumpets? exit to main menu!!". but then she came back, from way across the map. with a lot of jumbos. and my sistine chapel city that she took was my only source of jumbos. i have the save still but not the heart to try to turn that one around :lol:.

ok stop typing. point is, grats harbourboy, superslug you can do it if you remember how non-nukey you are supposed to be, and good luck to all (including myself *giggle*).

Odd that both times MapFinder quit due to contact it was with Victoria.

i think that's on purpose, since it can't erase that event the way it can if you pop a hut in 4000 AD. unless you're referring to the fact it was Victoria twice, that is quite a coincidence.

or maybe that time mapfinder quit due to clam overload!

btw watch out for Victoria, dude! she DoWd me out of the blue on thursday and took my sistine chapel city and i shall never forgive her. she's relatively peaceful but turns out she's more likely to DoW at pleased that i realized. someday soon i will play a (not eligible for HoF) game against at least 4 victorias and they will all be slaughtered. and then i'll reload it and nuke 'em all to bits. i expect to enjoy this revenge a lot. but for now, i'm trying the gauntlet again, as Liz, and have changed Liz's name to IHateVicky.

I think I just finished this Major (mid 1700s). Played as Inca under warlords on an inland sea map. My second city was another capital (bye Cyrus). I went religion crazy (Budda, Jewish, Conf, Christian). I missed Hindu by 3 turns - I think one of my non-mystic AIs popped Mysticism from a hut. Toa spread to me but Hindu (#1 religion in the world) never did.

At the end, my three ledendary cities were putting out over 1000 culture per turn. My capital was at 1200 (wonders) and got farmed over to generate artists.

I generated 1 (count it, 1) artist in the whole game and that was 7 or 8 turns from the end. I used him to push my #3 city to 73k. America was building the space ship and someone had just won the UN election ... I won before any resolutions were put.

unless you're referring to the fact it was Victoria twice, that is quite a coincidence.

Yeah, the first time was like ruff-hi stated, where I had her stuck on a pennisula. The second time is the pic above. Granted, the chances are 1 in 64, I think, of that happening.

someday soon i will play a (not eligible for HoF)

You can play an actual non-HoF game? Other than a couple PBEM games and DG2 I haven't played a non-HoF mod game since sometime in mid-2006!

Just submitted a 1574 win. I took a slightly different strategy that what has been discussed in this thread. I used Elizabeth (Warlords). All three of my legendary cities were cottaged, with two main GP farms providing GA's. I never used US, as I didn't realize how helpful it would be until it was too late. It is kinda odd how many strategies can work for this.

Well done, Shoot the Moon, that's a good result.

KMadCandy, to attempt to answer your questions (first I had to find them):
- I never ever choose my opponents. I always go random.
- In my game, I had Stalin, Mansa, Isabella, Cyrus, Bismark, Montezuma, Genghis, and Gandhi
- I was Elizabeth because Financial and Philosophical are traits I can work with easily
- The Redcoat comes in a little bit too late for these games where you are going for fastest win but with representation and/or a few scientists in non cultural cities, you keep getting science anyway, so can still make it to rifling for some end game security.
- Bismarck was the game leader, but Stalin and Mansa were my main neighbours. Mansa had good culture but Stalin's was hopeless and I almost ended up conquering him through culture by the end
- Isabella hated me because I ran my Hindu Organised Religion and Pacifism, while her Judiasm never spread to me so converting to her religion was never going to work. I just had to give in to all her other demands, including going to Theocracy for a while.
- Montezuma and Genghis continually made threatening demands but they were reasonably cheap to concede.
- I did turn off barbarians but hopefully this will be the only time I do that
- I did not fight a single battle in this whole game
- My second city was placed to pick up stone for Pyramids, but Stonehenge was already completed by then. I did have any marble.
- Pyramids and Stonehenge pollute your Great Artist pool but GPs and GEs are not the end of the world because the GP allowed me to lightbulb Theology and the GE allowed me to build Sistine Chapel, which were the real keys to victory for me.
- Getting to Liberalism first was nice, but not crucial, although I used the free tech for Nationalism so I did manage to build Taj Mahal as well. Not sure what the impact of Golden Age was but probably reduced the finishing time by a few years.

KMadCandy, to attempt to answer your questions (first I had to find them):
- I never ever choose my opponents. I always go random.
- In my game, I had Stalin, Mansa, Isabella, Cyrus, Bismark, Montezuma, Genghis, and Gandhi
- Bismarck was the game leader, but Stalin and Mansa were my main neighbours. Mansa had good culture but Stalin's was hopeless and I almost ended up conquering him through culture by the end
- Isabella hated me because I ran my Hindu Organised Religion and Pacifism, while her Judiasm never spread to me so converting to her religion was never going to work. I just had to give in to all her other demands, including going to Theocracy for a while.

that's why i wondered, i knew you go random and i just am not brave enough to do that for this type game, where i need a certain kind of win. for a normal game, sure i like surprises sometimes. but i want to win a major some year! i think i can maybe get this one if i do it the way i know, and handle the folks i know diplomatically, but if everybody has a chance to show up, i'd need to be on settler level for sure.

isabella :eek:!! my nightmare in a game like this, especially since you weren't spiritual to give in to demands easily. i am so impressed that won a game with random opponents, no matter who they were. the fact that monty and izzy were in there, triple bonus wows from me! i never ever would be able to.

shoot the moon - grats! i agree, part of why i still love this game after playing it so long is how flexible and complex it is, how you don't have to do the same thing every time to win.

methos - you should know by now i'm an oddball buddy! a few weeks ago, recovering from a hospital stay, i played one where i WBd spies into enemy cities, way back before alphabet. even barbarian cities. and watched them thru the whole game, what they did, it was just too fun! i fussed with the map to give them more health and happy resources when they were suffering, since i wanted them to do well so i could study more! and then of course i had to obliterate them. so i set myself a challenge of seeing just how many cities i could take on a single turn. mehmed and i started that turn at friendly, i declared war. the turn ended with his civilization destroyed, and a -27 or so "you razed one of our cities!" modifier for me. i was very proud (and according to hubby, overprepared in the extreme). the fighting didn't involve any cheating, but i can't like, give myself spies and give the bad guys resources galore in HoF games. i was cheating in the name of scientific research, mind you, but it was technically cheating. it was the perfect thing for my heavily-drugged state of mind at the time, since i couldn't do anything productive at all, or even play an actual game of civ with my brain that fried.

A quick question, what map types are people using? I've used Inland Sea for the two times I've ever gone for cultural, but I'm not sure that if that's the best. And, also, what do you look for in a starting position?

Anyone who knows me, or has read my previous posts, or seen my HOF games knows I'm a big fan of the Inland Sea. It has so many tiny advantages built in. I could probably list a dozen things. Anyone care to try to name some? The only other map that tempts me sometimes is Great Plains and maybe Pangea.

I had three attempts on Highland and 13 on Fractal.

Who would be the very worst leader to attempt this G-Major 11 with?

I had three attempts on Highland and 13 on Fractal.

Who would be the very worst leader to attempt this G-Major 11 with?

Organized and Aggressive seem pretty useless to me. Who is that?

i was caught offguard by this, had no idea it was possible. in case someone else out there doesn't know, i want to warn you to perhaps spare you the situation i just got ... if you haven't yet built a national wonder, you can end up stuck with someone else's version of it, if it's built it in a city you flip accept. ugh. maybe even cities you capture in war, i don't know, never have seen it happen there. i knew that he'd lose it; i didn't know that i would be stuck with it. so be careful if your neighbor is a dork who doesn't place his nationals in good cities!

i just accepted atlanta in a flip from george washington. nice site, size 8, i want more cities building temples, you know the drill. BAD call. i was still building my national epic. he had already built his, in atlanta. it came with the city, so now i can't build my own anywhere. i got gold for the effort of starting mine at least, as if that's any consolation. the city did not even come with the library that's required to build the national epic, mind you, so it's not even legal for it to be there :lol:! there's no way for me to know that he has a national wonder there by the F9 list. maybe you can tell by the little pictures outside the city, i don't try that way since i too confused. the only one i can recognize is forbidden palace, since the star shows by the name. i'm confused even by the library thing. why did it go away? i thought cities you got in revolt came intact? been a while, the flips i've gotten lately were in OCCs so i don't even get a message about them, just poof i realize later that the city is gone. but i am getting culture from national epic so it's definitely being treated differently than a world wonder captured during a war.

i never knew you could capture someone else's national wonders intact if your own wasn't built, and therefore be locked into their choice, for better or for worse. one more thing on my already long list of reasons why i want a chance to look at the city before i decide whether to disband it /sigh. i'm quite frustrated. i didn't want to inherit his :( . at least now i know, and i'll probably disband each and every future flip until i get my nationals built.

hmmz, i wonder if you can flip the globe if you don't have 6 theatres of your own, or heroic epic if you don't have a level 4 unit? maybe you can, since his national epic came without the library but it's working, i'm getting GPPs for it. one good thing, he hadn't chopped all the forests yet or farmed over the cottages he's worked up to villages. that wasn't luck, it was because i took over those tiles by culture before he had the chance to, but still :lol:.

having learned this lesson, i took a closer look at the two other cities of his i planned to keep if/when they flip. philadelphia will be my only source of stone, so i pretty much want it no matter what. it's down to 45% american now, and has had a revolt. i just realized that it's where he built chichen itza! i'll so giggle if he loses that part of his defense strategy to my peaceful culturemongering ways ;)

It annoys me that you can't look at a city before you decide to keep it. Or that you can't destroy the city after you keep it (like you can in SMAC)

Yeah, I got Stalin's Globe Theatre in my game. I had to change strategies and turn that city into a sort of Great Artist farm.

i was caught offguard by this, had no idea it was possible. in case someone else out there doesn't know, i want to warn you to perhaps spare you the situation i just got ... if you haven't yet built a national wonder, you can end up stuck with someone else's version of it, if it's built it in a city you flip accept. ugh. maybe even cities you capture in war, i don't know, never have seen it happen there. i knew that he'd lose it; i didn't know that i would be stuck with it. so be careful if your neighbor is a dork who doesn't place his nationals in good cities!

i just accepted atlanta in a flip from george washington. nice site, size 8, i want more cities building temples, you know the drill. BAD call. i was still building my national epic. he had already built his, in atlanta. it came with the city, so now i can't build my own anywhere. i got gold for the effort of starting mine at least, as if that's any consolation. the city did not even come with the library that's required to build the national epic, mind you, so it's not even legal for it to be there :lol:! there's no way for me to know that he has a national wonder there by the F9 list. maybe you can tell by the little pictures outside the city, i don't try that way since i too confused. the only one i can recognize is forbidden palace, since the star shows by the name. i'm confused even by the library thing. why did it go away? i thought cities you got in revolt came intact? been a while, the flips i've gotten lately were in OCCs so i don't even get a message about them, just poof i realize later that the city is gone. but i am getting culture from national epic so it's definitely being treated differently than a world wonder captured during a war.

i never knew you could capture someone else's national wonders intact if your own wasn't built, and therefore be locked into their choice, for better or for worse. one more thing on my already long list of reasons why i want a chance to look at the city before i decide whether to disband it /sigh. i'm quite frustrated. i didn't want to inherit his :( . at least now i know, and i'll probably disband each and every future flip until i get my nationals built.

hmmz, i wonder if you can flip the globe if you don't have 6 theatres of your own, or heroic epic if you don't have a level 4 unit? maybe you can, since his national epic came without the library but it's working, i'm getting GPPs for it. one good thing, he hadn't chopped all the forests yet or farmed over the cottages he's worked up to villages. that wasn't luck, it was because i took over those tiles by culture before he had the chance to, but still :lol:.

having learned this lesson, i took a closer look at the two other cities of his i planned to keep if/when they flip. philadelphia will be my only source of stone, so i pretty much want it no matter what. it's down to 45% american now, and has had a revolt. i just realized that it's where he built chichen itza! i'll so giggle if he loses that part of his defense strategy to my peaceful culturemongering ways ;)

hey, couldnt you just give it back to him or someone else, that way you dont have it anymore

A quick question, what map types are people using?

My first attempt was with Inland Sea, as I really like that map style. The problem was I wasn't getting very many religions spread my way. Or if I did, it was the same one multiple times. My current attempt (once I actually start it) is pangaea, as that map seems to allow religions to spread more.

hey, couldnt you just give it back to him or someone else, that way you dont have it anymore

i'm afraid to try it. my guess is, even if i don't have the national wonder any more i won't be allowed to build it, the game will consider my chance gone since it already took it out of my build queue and gave me gold "you can no long continue building..". i'm guessing he can't rebuild his either. and i sure don't want to test it in this gauntlet, if i give it to him and i can't put it where i want it, i definitely don't want to go to war with him over atlanta :lol: if i flip and give a city back i can't ever flip it again i think, is that right? so i figure better to have one, in an okay city with quite a bit of food but not nearly the infrastructure i want, than to not have one at all.

edit: hahaha update on the george washington situation: philadelphia, the home of chichen itza, did in fact flip to me and i accepted it since it has a stone garden. i think this is the first time i've ever culture flipped a city that had a wonder in it that wasn't obsolete. it's not the world's greatest wonder IMO, but it was free, thanks george. i'm not getting any culture for it, like usual world wonder captures. however, the castle came intact with the city and i am getting +1 culture for that. sometimes i don't understand the rules at all. note to george washington: if you mess with a woman's GP farm plans, she will find a way to weaken your defenses everywhere. don't mess with me dude.

about inland sea: i love that map for getting early contact with everyone, in games where i'm hoping for a fast tech-pace overall to benefit from trades. there are rivers everywhere, and they all connect thru the sea, so once i've looked around enough and know sailing, i'm hooked up to everybody. i save a lot of worker time building roads early on, (there are just so many rivers if you hold out for a good start) that generally you can just improve tiles and just need roads to speed up your travel, not roads to actually connect networks, maybe a tile or two between a city and a river.

in my current game on inland sea i founded 3 religions. of the others, buddhism spread to me very very early; christianity got to me only recently, when i settled a city to get some fish for health, and left it religionless with my fingers crossed; and gandhi's keeping islam pretty hush-hush, 3% spread on the map, not to me. 4 nations are strict believers in judaism, that is of course the only faith that has not spread to me :rolleyes:, no pacifism in this game. on higher levels, they are totally devoted to sending you missionaries to spread the faith, in Major 9 i'd end up with 4 or 5 religions in my single city and all but one had to come by missionary. on monarch, they don't send out missionaries, you're just depending on the RNG. well maybe isabella does, but i do not invite her. methos, i hope that the faiths find you on your map!

I won! :woohoo:

Went as Vanilla Washington, against Hatty, Vicky, Bismark, Fred, Ghandi, Asoka, Mansa and Liz. Chose a continents map, with my continent having Hatty, Vicky and Bismark. Stole a worker from Hatty, who wouldn't accept peace until I learnt Alphabet and gave her Pottery for it. Despite the other continent's civs having 3 cities by the time I built my 2nd, because of the pointless war with Hatty there was still a lot of space to build cities, and I ended up getting 9 of my own cities. I was able to out-tech the AI's to Liberalism despite having only an average GNP, and after that it became a matter of slowly accumilating culture while spreading the continent's 4 religions, Hindu, Judaism,Tao and Islam. Won in 1840AD with Asoka having built all SS Casing and Thrusters. Flipped 2 cities (shoudl've been 4) one of the twon containing the Hanging Gardens.

I won! :woohoo:


So you're a Quattromaster now? :goodjob:

I played Great Plains at first, which is a map I quite like, but found that there seem to be far fewer food resources at this level than on lower levels. Switched to Inland Sea and have done much better - my last submission was 1604.

Inland Sea is far better on resources, has rivers, and you don't get the close border problems with more than two civs, typically. When I tried Pangaea, the resources & rivers were fine but the AI seems to be on top of you right from the start making it hard to get a minimum number of good sites.

A quick question, what map types are people using? I've used Inland Sea for the two times I've ever gone for cultural, but I'm not sure that if that's the best. And, also, what do you look for in a starting position?

I used Pangaea for the resources. I want copper, stone and marble (stone or marlbe in my starting position) for fast cathedrals. Having close neighbors is no problem for me, I ususally get 3 cities due to cultural invasion and build 4 on my own.
You should of course have one city on a river to the coast or directly at the coast for your trade routes.

Maybe. But waiting for cities to flip takes a while sometimes, even with a few bombs. I had stone and copper, traded very early for marble (in fact, I used my own worker to link it up for Victoria :) ).

I've had another go today - Liberalism in 390 AD or thereabouts. But I still only managed to shave off a few turns, ending in 1592. So I still haven't quite got the hang of this. I'll probably have another go - I quite like cultural games.

Yeah, I got Stalin's Globe Theatre in my game. I had to change strategies and turn that city into a sort of Great Artist farm.

hey, couldnt you just give it back to him or someone else, that way you dont have it anymore

i got advice from a friend who's very good at plays at a level far higher than me. i then WB tested it, since i trust him but hey, this is a major gauntlet and i need one! it turns out that national wonders work kind of like missionaries. the limit of 1 is "how many you can have at once", it's not like a world wonder limit of "1 can be built and then no more chances, ever". in the WB test i stole cyrus's NE, then couldn't build one myself, gifted the city back to him, and NE again appeared in my own build lists. so i'll give washington atlanta back in the gauntlet game and put my NE where it truly belongs. philadelphia i'm keeping, for stone and the "neener neener i got your chicken" factor.

thanks for listening, and for the thought that made me investigate a bit more. i hope this helps anyone who gets frustrated like i did. it wasn't in time to help harbourboy but you got an impressive win anyway :)

My first ever Monarch win of any kind, on my first try at this Gauntlet!
Squee! (Well, I did have barbarians off, and hand-picked neighbors.) 1861.

Continents map, Gandhi-Warlords. Two big continents -- I found Buddhism and spread it to everyone on my continent, forming the giant Buddhist block that usually destroys me in non-cultural mid-games. Kept up in tech using ridiculous tech trading all the way up to Constitution when I realized I didn't really need any more tech. My only wonders: Pyramids (400 BC) and Great Library (545AD :p). I got a lot of yucky great people that I didn't want.

In the end, founded four religions (Buddhism, Christianity, Taoism, Islam) and built 8 cathedrals. 9 great artists got dropped into various cities. For all the cottages I ran, I really should have been financial, not philoisophical! :D And finally, another first: with barbarians off, no one on my peaceful Buddhist continent ever saw a single battle!

Flipping of national wonders
I did culture-flip a city with Ironworks, which was fun since I didn't get the prerequisite tech until the very end when Cyrus gave it to me. Ironically, it also had Hagia Sophia!

Some dates to compare with other games:
400 BC: My Pyramids
400 BC: The Oracle has been built in a far away land!
1160 AD: You have discovered Printing Press!
1250 AD: A distant civilization is the first to discover Liberalism!
1532 AD: You have discovered Liberalism!
1758 AD: Frederick has completed Apollo Program!
1861 AD: Cultural Victory

in the WB test i stole cyrus's NE, then couldn't build one myself, gifted the city back to him, and NE again appeared in my own build lists.

This begs the question, what happens if you have a completed NE in one of your cities and you capture a city that also has a completed NE? Does the one in the captured city get destroyed? Does yours get destroyed? Or do you get to keep them both? I'd guess the captured cities would be destroyed, but I'm definitely curious.

This begs the question, what happens if you have a completed NE in one of your cities and you capture a city that also has a completed NE? Does the one in the captured city get destroyed? Does yours get destroyed? Or do you get to keep them both? I'd guess the captured cities would be destroyed, but I'm definitely curious.

that one i'm fairly certain the captured one would be destroyed, since i've never captured one that i've built.

but you'd have to test it yourself ;), since i'm more curious about whether my cities will hit legendary in time or not, given that gandhi seems to be getting 4 new techs a turn or something like that, in my game. i had an education monopoly for a long long time, so long that i decided to research nationalism, hoping for constitution from lib (i researched it up to one turn away first); i had the PP prereqs out of the way as my back up. gandhi did learn education when i was, i dunno, 7 turns from nat (i wasn't researching real fast since i could always pick up PP and wanted some money to buy stuff, with the tech rate it seemed probable i'd get democracy and need money to buy buildings). i changed to liberalism pronto and took PP. a mere four turns after learning education, gandhi adopted free religion :eek:! i am glad i played it safe.

grats ccccc :). first monarch win, and first try at this gauntlet, triple grats in fact!

This begs the question, what happens if you have a completed NE in one of your cities and you capture a city that also has a completed NE? Does the one in the captured city get destroyed? Does yours get destroyed? Or do you get to keep them both? I'd guess the captured cities would be destroyed, but I'm definitely curious.

Yea, the new one is destroyed, I tried it in a MP game with my roommate. When I give it back to him, I think all the improvements and religious ones remain, but the national wonders are destroyed.

It's been a long, long time since I tried a culture win, so I decided to give this gauntlet a try. I got off to a pretty good start, I think I had liberalism shortly after 500AD. However, I didn't play the end-game well at all, made some bad decisions because I was a little rusty on this victory condition. I ended up with five religions and built 9 cities, so I decided to spam 5 cathedrals to each legendary city. This took forever, I think I would have been much better off building culture sooner. Anyhow, I crawled in at 1649 AD :sleep: .

Great fun though. Now that I worked off the rust, I might give it another go. :)

Last week I figured out how to play large maps, I had to decrease the image quality of my graphic card. :badcomp: I was so excited that I started a game with the wrong settings and played a lot before I noticed it. I decided to play it to the end. I won that game, monarch/large/normal.

I got a nice start today and I want to finish it. My capital got gold, pig and iron, plus a few flood plains. I have a city with three gems and banana. Another city with stone, 3 wines and wheat. Another city with two dyes, two sugar and one rice. I already have 6 cities, Mansa Musa built two cities almost cutting my territory in two. I guess these two cities will flip. Some of the resources I still have to culture fight, but this is not a problem in a cultural game. I have marble near the border of my territory, I'll get it soon. . I have already three religions.

I stopped the game to think about how to salvage it. :coffee: Yes, I think I may loose it. My problem is Louis, he is annoyed with me, he has just canceled our open borders. This means war! :trouble: He will attack me! :mad: My cities have one archer or one warrior only. I have few options:

adopt his religion and try to avoid the war, no other AI share his religion. I'll please him only.
prepare for war, defense and pillage only. I have horses.
prepare for war. Take one or two cities. I'll have nine cities, as soon the Mansa's cities flip.


What would you do?

What would you do?

Can you bribe anyone into war with Louis? That'll keep him busy. ;)

And get some defenses up as well.

What would you do?

Pray to the RNG that he doesn't attack, and continue along my merry way to culture heaven.

Pray to the RNG that he doesn't attack, and continue along my merry way to culture heaven.

that to me is the key. my current game is going quite well. but george washington hates cyrus, quite a few people do actually, and i had to cancel trades with cyrus. that took cyrus from pleased to cautious and he still refuses to talk to me. it's been at least 20 turns and he still won't talk. i think he's gonna come get me. but, i'm continuing along my merry way since i am having fun, and learning. so even if i lose, it's worth it, and i have plenty of time to try again.

as long as it's a case of "your merry way", then the situation is okay no matter what louis does, really. i do of course hope for the best results and that you win! :). if you'd be devastated and it'll no longer be fun if he beats you up, take a break before you choose an option, is my advice. not all that useful as advice, i know. but sometimes we lose sight of that.

What would you do?[/QUOTE]

How close is he?
That seems to make a big difference on wither the AIs attack. If he is next to you he will attack, Louis is like that. I like Ozbenno idea, bribe someone to do the dirty work. The cost is always cheaper if you declare war first.
If you can create a pile on, it gets cheaper and cheaper as more civs join the war, and it creates positive points with everyone that joins.

Yes ... but if you're right next door and a sitting duck with warriors & archers, which is how it typically is in a culture game, he pretty much only needs to send in a couple of swordsmen and it's game over in terms of the cultural win.

If you're relying on cottages and he pillages those, the chance of an early cultural victory is also gone.

I'm afraid I'd switch religions and do anything else I could to try to get him back to cautious rating - it worked for me in several of my games when various civs were teetering on the brink of invasion. And then I probably wouldn't include Louis in my next game - he's always irritable :)

If he is not an immediate neighbour, as soon as he declares bribe an ally and pop rush and draft some units. If he is an immediate neighbour, you're most likely screw anyway.

You could also try "no state religion" instead of adopting his... even on Prince I find myself often with no religion in order to keep from annoying my neighbors. Also, if you have no state religion, then all religions give +:culture:! So that double-holy-city can have 10:culture: instead of just 5!

ccccc: Favorite Civic Paganism?!

I usually go pacifism all the time, if you get one more GA with that, switching already payed itself.
If your neigbors are annoyed then you picked the wrong civs and/or didn't trade (and gift them) enough.

prepare for war. Take one or two cities. I'll have nine cities, as soon the Mansa's cities flip.

do you mean you'll have nine cities even without taking his cities? in my game i have more cities than i need, it turns out. next try (whether i win or lose this one) i'll try it with fewer cities. it's costing me a lot but i'm learning a lot too. anyway, that should be a factor in your war, if you do have the war.

as far as my war with cyrus ... he did declare war two turns ago. but not on me, on mansa. i feel bad for mansa but am glad it's not me! everyone's in FR now except for 2 that are jewish (hatty and cyrus) and mansa the buddhist. i adopted hinduism last turn and finally get to use pacifism for the first time this game, yay! i'd been in no state religion until liberalism, and then FR, the entire time up to this point for the lovely culture bonuses and to avoid the horrible diplomatic negatives. except for once or twice when i got demands to convert to somebody's religion and did it for diplomacy. i accepted those demands, switching back after 5 turns, while hating my choice to be elizabeth and really wished i was gandhi again.

while hating my choice to be elizabeth and really wished i was gandhi again.

I typically play as Liz, but this time I'm giving Gandhi a try. Something WastinTime said has me curious, so I'm going to give it a go. Great map too, with three grass gems! Unfortunately, I don't think it'll be until this weekend before I can start it! Finals are this week.... :sad:

I typically play as Liz, but this time I'm giving Gandhi a try. Something WastinTime said has me curious, so I'm going to give it a go. Great map too, with three grass gems! Unfortunately, I don't think it'll be until this weekend before I can start it! Finals are this week.... :sad:

good luck on finals! i needed a break from gandhi since i was him when vicky declared war and took my sistine chapel city grrrrrrr. but i think i do best as him, i've messed up this game (but am continuing since i'm learning from it) but not remembering i'm financial :lol:. and his UU is without a doubt the best for cultural games. well maybe the people that like the worker stealing thing prefer quechas, so they're allowed doubts. but for my style, fast workers 100%.

Elizabeth rules. All that lovely money and all those great people.

you can do it too superslug! just remember ... make artists, not nukes. :culture: good, :nuke: bad for this gauntlet.
So far, no good. I just haven't found a map I've liked yet. Maybe tonight I'll actually finally try that Mapfinder thing out....

Pray to the RNG that he doesn't attack, and continue along my merry way to culture heaven.
I would be suprised if he doesn't attack. If I take no action, it's game over.

Can you bribe anyone into war with Louis? That'll keep him busy. ;)
And get some defenses up as well.

How close is he?
That seems to make a big difference on wither the AIs attack. If he is next to you he will attack, Louis is like that. I like Ozbenno idea, bribe someone to do the dirty work.
He is my neighbor. We share borders.

Yes ... but if you're right next door and a sitting duck with warriors & archers, which is how it typically is in a culture game, he pretty much only needs to send in a couple of swordsmen and it's game over in terms of the cultural win.
:agree:


I'm afraid I'd switch religions and do anything else I could to try to get him back to cautious rating - it worked for me in several of my games when various civs were teetering on the brink of invasion. And then I probably wouldn't include Louis in my next game - he's always irritable :)


You could also try "no state religion" instead of adopting his... even on Prince I find myself often with no religion in order to keep from annoying my neighbors. Also, if you have no state religion, then all religions give +:culture:! So that double-holy-city can have 10:culture: instead of just 5!
ccccc: Favorite Civic Paganism?!
I don't have a state religion. The game I won, I had a state religion early on, but I spread it to my neighbors. Missionaries are cheaper than an army. But I found a lot of religions that game, this game I found only Taoism.

I usually go pacifism all the time, if you get one more GA with that, switching already payed itself.
If your neigbors are annoyed then you picked the wrong civs and/or didn't trade (and gift them) enough.
I am not running pacifism because my GP farm is not running. It has a good location, but it's taking sometime to clean all jungle. I've been building more workers than usual because of this.

Yes, diplomacy has failed. I haven't taken care of Louis well. I had him in another games and it was ok. I find hard to chose so many leaders. I always ruled out all agressive leaders, Julius Caesar, Saladin, Catherine and Isabella. I always choose Hatshepsut, Gandhi, Asoka, Mansa Musa and Cyrus, but I still need more three leaders. I've taken Louis and George Washington often. The other leader I don't remember.

do you mean you'll have nine cities even without taking his cities? in my game i have more cities than i need, it turns out. next try (whether i win or lose this one) i'll try it with fewer cities. it's costing me a lot but i'm learning a lot too. anyway, that should be a factor in your war, if you do have the war.
I'll have eight cities. Six cities plus two from Mansa. But I think his cities will take a while before flipping, I hope I'll be able to build more one or two cathedrals. I'm not paying the maintance cost of his cities now. ;) The first game (my computer crashed three times, it was before I found out how to play large maps) I built nine cities, the research was too slow and the mantaince too high.

A few more details:
I have the tech lead right now. Not a very strong one, one or more then all civs. Louis is not very advanced, he is at least three techs behind. I'm one turn from Civil Service (I have Metal Casting, but I can't remember if I have Machinery).I thought of giving him techs, but I'm afraid it will not work and I'll help him to destroy me. I don't want to quit this game. I just fall in :love: love for some games. :lol:

Thanks all for the replies! :)

Do you guys really go through map after map until you find one that is just perfect? I always just go for the one I get given randomly. Does it really make that much difference? Is that why it took me so many attempts to get this? Because everyone else chooses the perfect map, no barbarians, and the ideal opponents?

I always choose Hatshepsut, Gandhi, Asoka, Mansa Musa and Cyrus, but I still need more three leaders.

Catherine, Frederick, Victoria

Do you guys really go through map after map until you find one that is just perfect? I always just go for the one I get given randomly. Does it really make that much difference? Is that why it took me so many attempts to get this? Because everyone else chooses the perfect map, no barbarians, and the ideal opponents?

Yes, this is HOF. That mean people will play the best map they can find with the rules, and tweak all parameters to make play as easy as posible.

That what I do not like about HOF, results here in no way reflect normal game.

Yes, this is HOF. That mean people will play the best map they can find with the rules, and tweak all parameters to make play as easy as posible.

That what I do not like about HOF, results here in no way reflect normal game.
I think it's most accurate to say that everyone plays according to what they find satisfying. Certainly some look for every possible advantage and go for records, and that's great because it is the CFC Hall of Fame, but I think we underestimate how many players play for the fun and camraderie of just being on the same Gauntlet list as great players.

Me, I'd be happy for a win in this Gauntlet. Any win. And as far as a map goes, I just want to start with marble....

Do you guys really go through map after map until you find one that is just perfect? I always just go for the one I get given randomly. Does it really make that much difference? Is that why it took me so many attempts to get this? Because everyone else chooses the perfect map, no barbarians, and the ideal opponents?

note that i do respect mutineer, he's an amazingly skilled civ4 player and has taught me a lot. he even gave me advice just last night that will have saved my current gauntlet attempt, if it does end in a win (it ain't over). i however am not anywhere NEAR his level in ability or skill. he knows this and is kind and friendly to me anyway *giggle*.

i do regenerate maps, in both HoF games and in games i play just for fun. i know, the thought shocks methos, but sometimes i do play games that i don't send to HoF :lol:. for me, a game is more fun if it looks like i have a chance from the start, and since it is a game, my goal is to have fun, not be frustrated early on. i don't regenerate 80,000 times until i get ultimate perfection, but i definitely don't automatically take what i'm given the first time regardless of what it is. some people regard that as a form of cheating, i do not.

if you're playing HoF, follow HoF rules, in an SG go with the SG rules, etc. but IMO, in your own truly singleplayer games, do whatever you want, since fundamentally it is a game and the point of it is to have fun, and the definition of fun is very personal. if it's more fun, or more challenging (which is part of the fun for you) to not allow yourself certain options that i do allow myself, that's cool. as i said previously, i'm really really impressed with your win, harbourboy, regardless of the date. i could not have achieved it, with those opponents, maybe not even at settler level. you are for sure a better man than i am! then again, i'm a girl...

my personal history, i'm trying for QM because i used to be a totally major hardcore reloader. i mean the WORST, from way way back, before i ever even heard of civ, possibly before some of y'all were born. i wanted to break the habit, and i started to, and then found out about HoF, and was like oh cool, here's motivation to even more! they'll know if i did! and now i don't even miss it, i've become a much better player. and i want my QM box filled out just as a silly way to show myself that i don't reload any more. it certainly won't show that i'm one of the best players, i know that i'm not really. but i like that you can reach QM by competing only against yourself, and that's why i'm here. for me it's not about reflecting a normal game or about "OMG i want to be on the top 10 so everyone thinks i'm the goddess of high scores" :lol:

and the people here are way too cool. i have learned so much! seems nobody here is trying to hog the top 10 spots, they share so many tips and strategies. that is so generous and so fun for me and i just think it's completely 100% awesome. plus you guys make me laugh.

But does reloading maps really make that much difference? Aren't the random starting locations always reasonably well balanced? It shows how much attention I have been paying, as I never really notice any starts being that much better or worse than any others.

Do you guys really go through map after map until you find one that is just perfect? I always just go for the one I get given randomly. Does it really make that much difference? Is that why it took me so many attempts to get this? Because everyone else chooses the perfect map, no barbarians, and the ideal opponents?

Mapfinder is your friend, speeds up the process considerably.

For HOF, I look for a good start, not necessarily great. I don't have that much patience. For example, my first try on this gauntlet (1649 finish) had no marble and no calendar resources anywhere in my nine city region (never bothered to research calendar). Needless to say, happiness was a challenge.

Depending on the victory condition, I may or may not choose my opponents. For fast space or culture, you want to minimize the distraction of war so you choose friendly AI's. My favorite 10 are Asoka, Liz, Fred, Ghandi, Hatty, Mansa, Qin, Roosevelt, Saladin, and Vicky. (For this gauntlet I played Liz... absolutely love her traits for culture.) For conquest or dom, it doesn't matter who the opponents are :hammer: . Diplo depends on whether you plan to get voted in, or do diplo by dom. I never play barbs, pure time waster.

Why be selective? I suspect I could win the majority of the time under this gauntlet's conditions with random starts and barbs on. However, the goal of HOF is fast finishes. No way to do that with a lousy start. If everybody played completely random starts, then the winner would be the person who was luckiest in map generation, not necessarily the best player.

Of course, even with a good start, I'm not sure I will finish in the same century as WastinTime :lol:. Maybe I should hold out for a perfect start after all...

But does reloading maps really make that much difference? Aren't the random starting locations always reasonably well balanced? It shows how much attention I have been paying, as I never really notice any starts being that much better or worse than any others.

i think that for the initial, capital starting location, it does make a difference, and that some are better than others. some folks really want marble, to speed up the building of the parthenon, sistine chapel, the oracle. i adore having grassland gems, or gold on a hill if i also have enough food to work it, if i start out with mining (both liz and gandhi do, they're the leader i've tried this gauntlet). the big commerce boost early on from the gems or gold gives my research a kick.

once the game gets going, and your empire starts spreading out, and you can see more of the map as a whole and consider the big picture, then yes things start getting "reasonably well balanced" in most cases. but in that little box of say, 15 to 25ish visible tiles (if you take the risk of moving your settler first turn) that you have available to consider when choosing out the 21 tiles that you will be your initial capital, there can be big differences. and since that's your first city, and will remain your main city for quite a long time, any advantages you get there add up, and that has a snowball effect that can keep adding up, so on and so forth. you can move your palace later, but for a long time it'll be the the heart of your empire.

i don't absolutely stack the deck in my favor except in OCCs; there i do have standards and i don't give in til i see something beautiful *giggle*, since it's the only city i will ever ever have. i will not start a one-city-challenge game without gems or gold and 2 food resources, and it has to be on freshwater for health, i'm stubborn :lol:. but i do, for all games, HoF or not, want a capital that looks like it's one i can work with, that stands a reasonable chance of having a semi-sort-of reasonable balance of production, food, commerce, and pretty scenery. it just makes the game more fun for me, and that's the point of playing, is to have fun.

so, that's why i regen. if i get a bad capital, i get frustrated, and it's not fun for me. i do like a challenge, but i don't like the feeling of hitting a brick wall, and i admit i'm not a top-of-the-line player. so i don't want to start out with one hand tied behind my back. even tho i do regen i don't ever come close to being the fastest finisher in a gauntlet. and that's fine with me. all i want to do is know whether i could win that type of game, i'm not a competitive personality as far as having the drive to beat other folks. so there's your proof i'm not a top-of-the-line player by any means ;).

I don't think I could ever get into the mindset of selecting my opponents or regenerating starting positions (to the extent of even having a separate program, MapFinder, that does that for you!). That just seems too weird to me, like turning off half of the functionality of the game.

But each to their own. :)

But I still don't think I have ever seen a starting location so bad that it makes me want to give up. You can always work with it somehow, and it probably means there is something awesome just around the corner to make up for it. I would be suspicious of a tarting location with lots of resources as it probably means there is no iron in that whole hemisphere or something.

But I still don't think I have ever seen a starting location so bad that it makes me want to give up. You can always work with it somehow, and it probably means there is something awesome just around the corner to make up for it.

now see, i'd phrase that differently. i'd state it as "a player with sufficient skill can always work with any given start somehow and make it successful." see? i'm just a permanoob, so i don't trust myself to do that ;) but that's part of what i love about the game, that so many different kinds of people can have fun in their own ways with it; there's no "one true way" that you have to play.

I don't regenerate the starting maps, but I do give up at ~2000 BC often, without considering it to be a loss. :D I guess when I said I won on my "first try," I was stretching a little, since I had redone the very beginning a couple of times in order to grab Buddhism and some early commerce.

I bribed two civs against Louis. :hammer: He is now at the bottom of the power graf. All my neighbors but Louis share my state religion. It was hard to convert Cyrus, I needed to spread my state religion to four cities. I have a small army, I'm no longer so vunerable. All this might still cost my victory. I lost Liberalism for one turn. I don't know if I will win before the AI launches, but I do think I will survive.

I bribed two civs against Louis. :hammer: He is now at the bottom of the power graf. All my neighbors but Louis share my state religion. It was hard to convert Cyrus, I needed to spread my state religion to four cities. I have a small army, I'm no longer so vunerable. All this might still cost my victory. I lost Liberalism for one turn. I don't know if I will win before the AI launches, but I do think I will survive.

Still, there always a certain pleasure in seeing the AI stinkers getting what they deserve.
It always amazes me that I actually "like":) or "dislike":mad: certain AIs. They are just computer subroutines.:crazyeye:

well, what you think people are? People are just a different computers that run different subroutines! :)

well, what you think people are? People are just a different computers that run different subroutines! :)

i really ought to be in bed dreaming of electric sheep right now.

curse this insomnia! at least it's giving me more time to try the gauntlet. nobody's killed me or built apollo yet, yay. but i'm at that point where i can't tell how far behind i am in tech, since i'm soooooo far behind that the prereqs are blocking me from seeing things on the trade page :lol:.

Do you guys really go through map after map until you find one that is just perfect? I always just go for the one I get given randomly. Does it really make that much difference?

I consider regenerating, choosing opponents, choosing maps (and even choosing my own leader)... cheating when I play pivate games. But HOF is different, is like "what are you able to do given the perfect conditions?"

And yes, it makes a lot of a difference, try a 3 gems start someday and see by yourself.


Catherine, Frederick, Victoria

Washington, Rooselvet

I like playing against Gandhi, Asoka, Washington, Roosevelt, Victoria, Elizabeth, Mansa Musa, Ramses XII, Hatshepshut, Louis XIV, Frederick, Catherine, Bismark, and Peter on peaceful games...I don't generally tend to have any of those leaders be overly aggressive or annoying.

However, in my two most promising attempts thus far(none completed yet though), I've played as Hatty and as Louis. With Hatty, I'm in 100% culture mode and around 100-140 turns from winning, if I can survive that long...I've got 9 cities and 3 religions, and am gradually flipping Vicky's cities...I just don't know if I can keep Brennus happy in this game(I missed one of the slots and randomly got Brennus right next to me lol)

As for my Louis game...I started between Roosevelt and Vicky, and only had space to build 5 cities, only two of which I was really able to put where I wanted...by the time I got my second settler built in 1700BC, Roosevelt had already built 4 additional cities and pretty much boxed me in...after my third settler he had 8 cities. So I pretty much placed my cities to attempt to flip his cities later on. I founded Hinduism and Judaism, Christianity spread to me, and I built Parthenon, Pyramids, and Great Library. As far as GP go...I've gotten 1 artist, 2 engineers, and 1 scientist. I missed out on Liberalism by 13 turns, but it feels like I was cheated...I had 4 turns left on Education, checked the tech screen, and saw no one else knew it yet and only 3 civs knew Philo(me and two others). Two turns later, I get the message that Mansa has discovered Liberalism...and took Economics with it. I check the tech screen again and suddenly, not only do all but 2 AI know Philo, but 5 know Education, while Mansa has suddenly gained Education, Liberalism, and Economics.

Maybe I just didn't see Education in his list, but I've never seen Mansa withhold a tech from trading before. Anyway, I'm gonna keep playing that one, but I'm not sure what my 3rd legendary city will be...I might just attempt to flip an American one that was placed where I was gonna place my GP farm and hope it generates culture fast enough to catch up.

Fascinating. I guess I will never ever get top score in HoF if it requires a lottery win of a start to get those sort of results.

I just finished my first and most likely only try for this one, in 1734. It's currently mid-table, so that's good enough for me. :)

On the subject of regenerating and choosing perfect conditions, I'm probably a bit inconsistent. I did pick peaceful opponents this time, and turned off barbs, but didn't want to wait too long for a decent start. It was corn+marble+3ivory in the end, which I'd consider good average.
Judging by this game, and my little experience in culture victories, I'd say low 1600s should be possible with pretty much any map by a good player. I would be surprised if someone pulled off sub-1500 from an average location.

I always play HoF, even when not going for a specific target. However, on those normal games, I permit myself some more randomness, to make things interesting. Usually I think of a general idea in terms of player civ, map and other parameters, but leave opponents random, and barbs on. Also, those games I'd settle for the first start I get, unless it's exceptionally bad.

well, I don't think I'll ever get a top score either, but then...I'm not quite as nuts as these other people are ;)

I turned off barbs because I was sick of having my settlers eaten by bears because my warrior was a weakling. I also started picking my opponents on this major because I had three random starts in a row where I started next to warmongers...maybe I'm wrong, but I didn't think I had the time to try to win a cultural victory when fending off Napoleon and Monty as neighbors lol

Kudos to you for winning with four big warmongers in your game harbourboy! :goodjob: I am only regenerating starts for this major because I don't like the settings and just want to get a game over with so I can attempt to get my Deity and Immortal wins taken care of so I can finish the rest of my QuattroMaster reqs on difficulty levels I can play on.

On any other victory condition, and in pretty much any other game, I'm going to have barbs on(possibly on raging), and random opponents, random starts, and probably even random leaders most of the time...that's how I picked my leaders for the minor....I got picked everything random except for making my maps snaky continents and low sea level.

Fascinating. I guess I will never ever get top score in HoF if it requires a lottery win of a start to get those sort of results.

It's not lottery-like at all. If, for example, you run mapfinder overnight, it should get you 20-30 starts to look at. Of those 5-10 are probably good enough to play if you're competing for a top spot. And it doesn't take rocket science to set up the rules for picking starts. For this gauntlet, I tell it to save anything with 2 gold/gems, or something with marble and 1 gold/gem. Where there's one commerce resource, there is often 2 or more. And there's always a corn or some food around for the capitol without even telling the mapfinder to worry about that.

It's cool if you guys want to use MapFinder, but to me that doesn't sound like fun to take so much of the drama and variety out of the game.

It's cool if you guys want to use MapFinder, but to me that doesn't sound like fun to take so much of the drama and variety out of the game.

You should try it before you label it "no-variety" "no-drama", etc.

Anyway, my latest game (which is completely different from previous attempts :mischief: ) has some interesting points...

I used Capac to capture a neighbor's capitol in 2500BC. Giving me 5 workable gold tiles (7 total). This allowed me to finish Liberalism in 230 AD without ever building an academy. I also took detours to Music, Theology, and Drama.

Now, we'll see if I can finish without the Philo trait helping me make GA's. And no Parthenon. I have just barely enough food. No really good GP farm sites, so I'm doubting it. However, construction of cathedrals should go well. I have stone/pyramids and can trade for marble.

It's cool if you guys want to use MapFinder, but to me that doesn't sound like fun to take so much of the drama and variety out of the game.Map Finder levels the playing field between those that have the free time to regenerate maps manually and those that don't. Plus it can be fun looking through the list of saved maps trying to figure out which would be best to try next. A lot of those good starting locations turn out to be otherwise geographically challenged. You got to kiss a lot of frogs... :mischief:

In the end, it depends on what you are trying to do. If you are just playing for fun, then you are right, it doesn't matter. But if you want to win the gauntlet, capture that #1 table slot, or better your QM ranking, you need to use all the advantages you can get.

As I said, it's cool that there is a tool available for those people who would otherwise sit and push 'regenerate' over and over again.

All I am saying is that I prefer to go about it the "slow" way - i.e. by playing each of the different maps that I am given. One way of looking at it is that in the (very) long run, all this means is that we are playing the same maps, but in a very different order. I am playing them in the order they are presented to me, and you are playing them in an order sorted by certain preferences.

It's all good.

Harbourboy, do you do the GOTM? It doesn't suffer from the problems you seem annoyed by. Personally, I'm near the bottom of the table, and I'm not going to run map finder either to try to get a better time. :)

It's just that MapFinder is an accepted "method" for this particular competition, and not using it is fine although it will be difficult to complain when people do so well using it. I think that's part of the reason that it is included in the HOF mod, to prevent the people-who-have-it from constantly destroying the people-who-don't.

Edit: re-reading, you basically understood all of this anyway. sorry :P

I do do the GOTM and I can accept and understand the subtle differences between that and HOF.

GOTM is great because everyone does the same settings and the same map and there can be unpredictable human adjusted settings so you have to be on your toes.

HOF Gauntlets are great because you can have multiple attempts at the same one, you can play it the way you want to (within reason) and you can discuss them with other people as you go without worrying about spoilers.

I've been having issues with Barbarians at the default number of Civs, so I decided to add a couple more AIs (still within the HOF limits for a Large map) but for some reason I keep getting "CRCs are missing" whenever I attempt it with 10 AIs, Spain, Great Plains, and the other Gauntlet settings (and never with 9 civs on the same settings, or 10 civs on any other settings). It's a fresh (less than 6 hours old) install of Civ and Warlords, using 2.08.004, and like I just said only happens on those specific settings.

I've been having issues with Barbarians at the default number of Civs, so I decided to add a couple more AIs (still within the HOF limits for a Large map) but for some reason I keep getting "CRCs are missing" whenever I attempt it with 10 AIs, Spain, Great Plains, and the other Gauntlet settings (and never with 9 civs on the same settings, or 10 civs on any other settings). It's a fresh (less than 6 hours old) install of Civ and Warlords, using 2.08.004, and like I just said only happens on those specific settings.I tried to duplicated this but wasn't able. Could you e-mail a save to hof.civfanatics@gmail.com?

Map Finder levels the playing field between those that have the free time to regenerate maps manually and those that don't. Plus it can be fun looking through the list of saved maps trying to figure out which would be best to try next. A lot of those good starting locations turn out to be otherwise geographically challenged. You got to kiss a lot of frogs... :mischief:

In the end, it depends on what you are trying to do. If you are just playing for fun, then you are right, it doesn't matter. But if you want to win the gauntlet, capture that #1 table slot, or better your QM ranking, you need to use all the advantages you can get.

Unfortunately mapfinder is not working at my computer (WIN XP SP1), so I alwasy regenerate. For me it is a fun to see the maps. But if you regenerate you have to wait long for a double gold or gem spot (I haven ever had it in this gauntlet . NOT even in pangea , in Inland see 1 gold is lot of time to get).

Unfortunately mapfinder is not working at my computer (WIN XP SP1), so I alwasy regenerate. For me it is a fun to see the maps. But if you regenerate you have to wait long for a double gold or gem spot (I haven ever had it in this gauntlet . NOT even in pangea , in Inland see 1 gold is lot of time to get).Have we tried to figure out why it is not working for you? (This is getting off-topic, we should discuss it over in the Mod support and suggestions.)

As I said, it's cool that there is a tool available for those people who would otherwise sit and push 'regenerate' over and over again.

All I am saying is that I prefer to go about it the "slow" way - i.e. by playing each of the different maps that I am given. One way of looking at it is that in the (very) long run, all this means is that we are playing the same maps, but in a very different order. I am playing them in the order they are presented to me, and you are playing them in an order sorted by certain preferences.

It's all good.

The thing about mapfinder/no barbs/picked opponents is that it allows different stratagies that wouldn't be possible otherwise. I like space race and have tried to push that style of win a fast as I can. Often cities will have no units in them for half of the game, you just can't do that with barbs. But its not that easier to not make units, it just that the production is needed elsewhere. The challenge and part of the fun, is push the limits of what you can figure out (I kind of view the games as one large puzzle).
Thats what is so great about the gauntlets, they make you try something new, think agian.

I have been trying the GOTM, and barbs are a rude awakening if you haven't played them for awhile. But I always find new insights from trying different styles, and it's fun. It a very fun game:)

An analogy might be comparing mountain bikes, to racing bikes. Both are good, but if a mountain bike tries to race on the pavement, it's going to be tough.
So Harbuorboy, download mapfinder, turn off the barbs, pick your AIs and try street racing. I guarentee that you will learn something that you can take back to the style of game you like best.

Oh yes, with no barbs, the softest AIs, running through at least 15 saved maps (I attack early and at the edge, so I lose often:cry: ),and with conciderable luck, I managed a date in the high 1300s.

I won the game. :) The date was late 1856 AD. Louis was destroyed. There were a lot of wars. That slowed down the AI. They were already building the ship, the AI with more parts had only 5. I "fought" one war too. Cyrus asked me to join him against Peter. Well, he was sending lots of cavalary to attack Peter far way. He was using my horses (I traded for copper). He asked for help. There was Hatty between me and Peter, Peter was already very weak. I was pretty sure he would not pillage me. So I agreed. Few turns later Hatty joined the party. I was "fighting" a war with two AI allies. I haven't built a single unit, nor sent a single Redcoat into the battefield, but I got the plus points in the relations. :lol: I got my win. Peter was destroyed. If the game were peaceful, I would have done much better. I wasn't attacked, but I lost lot of production in units and turns researching military techs. One military tech made me lose the Liberalism race. That is my forth Monarch win, second cultural.

I won the game. :)

yay!!!!!!!! i want everybody to win a game in this gauntlet of course, but i have to admit i was rooting for you in particular after seeing your enthusiasm and interest in culture games, in the thread you started before the gauntlet :). grats!

as for my own game, it's going quite well, but gandhi just built the UN. this has been a big fear. obviously it's not going to be a quick win :lol: it's 1592 AD atm, no signs of apollo but i can't see where they are techs at all except that hatty told me to fear her SAM infantry. i don't think anybody'll win diplo victory, but they might vote in FR (and i'd lose pacificism) or even worse, emancipation! please don't guys! you're already in it anyway, and i have no problem with the :mad: faces, i want my unlimited artists. *crosses fingers*

but they might vote in FR (and i'd lose pacificism) or even worse, emancipation! please don't guys! you're already in it anyway, and i have no problem with the :mad: faces, i want my unlimited artists. *crosses fingers*

I hope you will win too. Just don't forget: theater+globle theater = 5 artists, still a good GA farm.

HOF Gauntlets are great because you can have multiple attempts at the same one, you can play it the way you want to (within reason) and you can discuss them with other people as you go without worrying about spoilers.

I know you understand the difference between HoF & Gauntlet games. But the thing is that they are really different, and the difference is the point. If you want to compete on the HoF gauntlet stuff, you have to pick a good map, pick your leader, and pick your opponents. And even then you might not win :cry: But there's no point in doing the ... hesitate ... testosterone thing of feeling like a wuss if you don't just take what the game throws at you. You have to embrace the rules and play them. It's actually quite interesting to do it that way and you do learn stuff that you can take back to the straight games. But there's no point competing and then hobbling your own legs. The game is what it is - and GotM etc provide opportunities to do the other thing.

it's 1592 AD atm, no signs of apollo but i can't see where they are techs at all except that hatty told me to fear her SAM infantry.

1592 and they're on *SAMs* ???? The map in a general sense must be extraordinarily favourable, resulting in huge tech strides for all ...

I have never seen this in any of my games - and I've seen 1592AD a few times, you know, in passing, while I'm waiting for my stuff to pan out (which is generally another half-century or more :( ) Well ... good luck :)

I haven't seen SAMs in any of my 16 attempts at this game. One of your AIs must have been visited by aliens who shared advanced technology with them.

is that very fast??? we all shared tech pretty much all along, even the ones that thought the other ones were heathens got along well until cyrus DoWd mansa. i tech traded like a human version of mansa once i was sure i could get lib first, like i always do. it's monarch/large/epic, i double checked when i started and just now quadruple checked after y'all said that *giggle*. i didn't think it was fast. this is the first time i've gone much past liberalism in trying this gauntlet so i have no sense of scale here :lol:. oh boy. well, her SAMs aren't aimed at me! she is in fact pleased with everyone.

this was my favorite part. screenshot included so spoilered to save pain for slow-connection folks.
i'm used to seeing machine guns and infantry in their cities while i have warriors in mind. but check out gandhi's great artist coming to try to save his city swallowed in my culture (it did not work, i razed it later):

http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p285/kmadcandy/waybehind.jpg

even his great artist is more technologically advanced that mine are :eek:! i'm certain that my people won't revolt to join another empire due to culture being better than mine. but sheesh, i'm in trouble if my great artists decide to move somewhere else because they're sick of their old fashioned clothes!

But there's no point in doing the ... hesitate ... testosterone thing of feeling like a wuss if you don't just take what the game throws at you.

It’s not about testosterone at all.

It’s about:
1. Regenerating maps and/or using a tool to automate that are foreign concepts to me (I’ve never done it any version of Civ) and I don’t feel any compulsion to do it.
2. I’m not playing HoF to get the top score (mainly because I could never undertake the massive micromanagement required to get the top score).
3. Main reason to play HoF is to force myself to play without reloading.
4. Second reason to play HoF is that Quattromaster is a great structure for seeing if I can win in all the various categories (whilst playing with my own silly random maps)
5. Third reason is that all the discussion on these Boards adds an extra dimension of interest to the game.

I finished my 1-st attempt 1-st half 16 century. I have played wery slow (more than 14 ours) and with great pleasure - there was no time to play within almost 2 month.

I finally found a map I was happy with! I might actually finish a game of Civ for once...

I finally found a map I was happy with! I might actually finish a game of Civ for once...

Screenshot please.

Screenshot please.
It was actually nothing to write home about. Great Plains, midnorth with five or six cows, second and third cities nearby with Stone and Marble.

Map itself isn't that great, it's great to me because I played it for two hours without totally blowing it yet. :lol:

Mid North GP, that should have a gem or two.

Mid North GP, that should have a gem or two.
AI got to them before I did. Actually, the marble and stone didn't wind up helping too much either, as I got beat to a lot of wonders including the Oracle and the Parthenon. Still, I wound up with nine towns and three religions before getting boxed in, and my research lead is marginal but profitable in tech trading, so I feel like I've got a chance. Not sure when I'll cut research off, but focusing on Liberalism right now...

1592 and they're on *SAMs* ???? The map in a general sense must be extraordinarily favourable, resulting in huge tech strides for all ...

so okay, i thought that game was going well but obviously it's lost already, i just didn't realize it, so i'll give up on it :lol:. i scrolled back in this thread and i see people talk about so-and-so was building casings in 19xx, well, gandhi built apollo 1600ish in mine. i got a refund for the hammers i'd put into SoL when gandhi finished it in early 1400s. 1622 was the last turn played, and then read i the boards after dinner and decided to pack that one in. what a bummer, i had no idea they were supergenius mutant freaks! all the peaceful games i've played lately were on deity, so i'm just used to them being really smart, it seemed natural *giggle*. i did learn a lot tho. like, i ended up with way too many cities, and didn't need to grab so many early on. i razed at least 6 flips, kept 3 or 4 for resources/wonders, and kept atlanta then gave it back, the national epic one. george really shouldn't have taken atlanta back. it revolts within 15 turns of recovering from the last revolt, every time, over and over again :lol:. and it's on the F8 screen as having over 8k culture, he is trying mind you! i built only one world wonder (parthenon) but all 3 of my big 3 were on the top 5 cities list, take that brainiacs! :). culture got me 3 other world wonders, including two that weren't doing freddy any good at the time, but were great for me (spiral minaret when he was in FR, and hagia sophia which was obsolete for him). so i had a good time, even tho i'm such a noob i didn't even have the teensiest tiniest slightest clue they weren't supposed to be that smart yet on this level.

i don't have autolog saving enabled, but going by the names i put on my manual game saves, looks like i got lib at about 650 ADish (i was first) which doesn't look early in comparison to this thread so the "hyper fast tech" switch got flipped on sometime after that, but heck if i know how. of course i couldn't see it, i never did research chemistry since i didn't want to obsolete my parthenon.

i don't go with the list of opponents i see quoted here over and over. but that by itself can't possibly explain the incredible difference in how fast they were vs how the typical dates AI hit stuff i'm reading about as i scroll back in this thread. i'm using warlords, and i don't know if the people listing their opponents mean vanilla or warlords. people say catherine and personally i cannot stand her in any type of game! i've kicked victoria and roosevelt out entirely, they've backstabbed me too often at Friendly just because i'm low on the power graph. not real often, but when it does happen it's game over so bye bye vicky you are not invited.

i threw in augustus in the mix for the first time this last try. he worked great. nobody disliked him and he was really sweet with "can you spare this for a friend" money handouts. but i've never once seen anybody mention him here as a choice. cyrus i knew i'd have to be careful with, and it almost didn't work, since he kept demanding stuff and i didn't give in, bless mansa's heart for being the target instead of me!

only thing i know for sure is that i want to be spiritual this time, i missed it so bad as liz. so that means mansa or gandhi, and whichever i pick, i'll wish i was the other. so, i'll be gandhi, since i prefer his UU and his civ color. here goes nothing...

Catherine declared war on me. Game abandoned...

i scrolled back in this thread and i see people talk about so-and-so was building casings in 19xx, well, gandhi built apollo 1600ish in mine.


In my last game Mansa finished Apollo in 1529. Thankfully I won less than two decades later, in 1547. Gave me quite a shock though. It still interests me how this game using US can be so close to my result not using US (1574). I think the dates would be almost identical, if it were not for the fact that my US-using game had a much better start and better GP production. I am begging to doubt whether teching to democracy was worth it after all.

In terms of diplomacy, is anyone else not having any problems with the AI's? I've worker stolen and still not had any relationship problems. It's just so easy to get fair trade bonuses. Or am I just getting lucky?

In terms of diplomacy, is anyone else not having any problems with the AI's? I've worker stolen and still not had any relationship problems. It's just so easy to get fair trade bonuses. Or am I just getting lucky?

I have given a lot of attention to diplomacy.

I stole workers at 3 AI at the beginning of my game. Later 2 of them was destroyed completly (Brenus in 1800BC, Mao in 1000AD). I have distributed my state religion to all AI, except for one - Hanni. (by the way: I got 6 religion.) Hanni lives far away from me. I did not have common borders with him. I had very good relations with all my neighbours: 5AI was friendly to me. When Hanni has declared war to me, all my 5 neighbours have declared war to him (under my request) . I did not have common borders with Hanni - therefore I have not seen its armies at all.

At the finish of my game I got defensive pacts with 2 AI and friendly relations with 4 AI, pleased - with 1 AI. So I did not have serious war problem within my game.

so okay, i thought that game was going well but obviously it's lost already, i just didn't realize it, so i'll give up on it

Why?????? Don't do that, keep on playing, you are flipping a lot of cities so you can't be too far away from 75000c. They are advanced? so what? I have seen 1200AD UN before, you just keep on 100% culture, strait ahead, don't look back.

In my second game I am keeping my tech advantage to myself... so much that nobody has MC in 600AD. It is a mistake. If I have the time to play another attempt, I'll be gifting each and every tech I have.

This is consuming too much time. My GOTM submission is in jeopardize already, but really I want to play this gauntlet.

Why?????? Don't do that, keep on playing, you are flipping a lot of cities so you can't be too far away from 75000c. They are advanced? so what? I have seen 1200AD UN before, you just keep on 100% culture, strait ahead, don't look back.

well you saying there's a chance does give me hope, thank you :). if an emancipation vote passes i won't make it tho. the early 2 are spitting out a ton of culture on their own, but the GA Farm will need at least 3 more artists, and i just can't get them in time from any other city if i can't run caste, and it's debatable even if i can. i'm not even sure 3 will do it, i'm definitely not as good as knowing the dates and planning things out as you and WT are. *crossing my fingers*. what i do love is that i stole hagia sophia/spiral minaret city, the second city he built so it had to have quite a bit of culture in it, from the side of my empire that doesn't have any of my big 3 cities :lol:! i put some culture over there just to ensure freddy didn't intrude my terrritory too much, and when that slider went up, he had no chance on the border really :).

In terms of diplomacy, is anyone else not having any problems with the AI's? I've worker stolen and still not had any relationship problems. It's just so easy to get fair trade bonuses. Or am I just getting lucky?

i don't worker steal. i wish i understood how you guys pull off the worker stealing thing, since i'd love free workers! but i've never tried it, i'm not a brave soul, and i just know it would wreck my game forever as far as politics *giggle*.

diplomacy is flat-out critical for how i approach this gauntlet. i mentioned what a jerkface cyrus was being, and how scared i was, because that's not rare, that's unheard of. earning enough negatives with someone to be at cautious while simultaneously having +4 fair/forthright was a completely new experience for me. i wasn't even a heathen, i was still in NSR! i had pissed him off way too many times :lol:. i think this was only the second time i put cyrus in as an opponent, i guess he's just a bad choice.

surprise DoWs from nowhere i have had happen. i depend on Pleased status to protect me from that given my guaranteed low power rating. i have permanently black-listed the leaders most likely to declare at pleased. victoria, who most seem to love having in their games, is one who is not invited to my parties, she's done it twice. altho she's not very warlike in general, she is really vicious backstabber in disguise (i'm telling the truth but yeah i'm kinda bitter still), and will declare at pleased on days the RNG or her mood tells her it might be fun. since that doesn't fit in with my strategy of how to not get declared on, and there are several leaders guaranteed not to declare at pleased, that's a showstopper, bye-bye vicky.

if you watched me play this gauntlet up to the point i turn off research, i doubt you'd be able to guess whether i'm going for diplo or culture other than the techs/wonders i concentrate on; i study the diplo screens that much :lol:. it's easy to get the bonuses but for me that's not getting lucky. i want to be 100% sure iget those bonuses, i know that after a certain point i will not be able to get any new ones, unless they demand something civic/religion wise and i can give in (i love being spiritual). so i need to earn them early. and i have "hand out free tech" time when i get the pre-req for something i CBA to research myself but need as a prereq later, like machinery. when i finally get metalcasting in a trade from somebody, i hand it out like candy and hope someone gets mach and trades it to me so that i can get PP later. that's something i do in diplo games, to speed up global tech pace, but not in my non-gauntlet games where i actually, like, wanna be smarter than they are.

just my own 2 :commerce:, earned while building my own workers

You'd think that with running a Hall of Fame I'd know how to play this game better, but I can't even pull off the CS Slingshot on this one...

You'd think that with running a Hall of Fame I'd know how to play this game better, but I can't even pull off the CS Slingshot on this one...

i never can. well, ok the settler minor i did. but i've just resolved myself to take CoL and be happy. current try i missed the oracle but was first to CoL. not getting CS slingshot is not going to lose you the game, even tho i'm not an expert, and haven't won this gauntlet yet i can guarantee you that.

i'd never be able to run a Hall of Fame. remember no nukes is good nukes, culture not clobbering. if you research fusion i will be disappointed; if you research fission i just might mutiny and try to post a poll about your fitness to run HoF buster! ;) keep at it and good luck.

You'd think that with running a Hall of Fame I'd know how to play this game better, but I can't even pull off the CS Slingshot on this one...

I can't get the CS sling unless I'm playing on Warlord or lower, so it's not abnormal to be completely unable to do it. :lol:

You'd think that with running a Hall of Fame I'd know how to play this game better, but I can't even pull off the CS Slingshot on this one...

It is tough with these settings. I missed it so often that I gave up and used the oracle for Monarchy

Well in that case I may just give up on the slingshot and alter my strategy...

I can do the cs-slinghsot easily on this.
For it to work you need early cottages or gold or gems and you should at most research 5 techs (starting with mysticism I go for poly->masonry and/or pottery->priesthood->writing) before you start CoL. Oracle is so cheap, that pulling it out while getting CoL shouldn't be the problem, even without bronze or marble.

CS-slingshot isn't too worthy anyway:
I got beat getting Pyramids and Sistine Chapel in my last game and still didn't discover Liberalism in 640AD and got 3 prophets (mixed up what should be a scientist with a chapel) till now...
I don't think I wanna start another game atm, me and this G-Major don't work well together.

speaking of map finding, how do you get the thing to work??

I usually just regen until i find a map with a gold mine. I swear thats the best resource in the game.

speaking of map finding, how do you get the thing to work??
Isn't there a manual or faq in progress?

I usually just regen until i find a map with a gold mine. I swear thats the best resource in the game
Agreed, besides stone the best criteria for mapfinder.

I have never ever done the Civil Service slingshot in any game at any level.

speaking of map finding, how do you get the thing to work??


First off, have you downloaded and installed MapFinder v.1.5 (http://hof.civfanatics.net/civ4/mods/Civ4_Map_FinderV1.5_Setup.exe)? Though the HoF Mod comes will control options for MapFinder, you still have to install the actual program.

After you've installed MapFinder, you need to make sure your path statements are correctly set in your options menu under the correct HoF tab. Sorry, off hand I can't remember exactly which one it is. I believe the first time you load up MapFinder the program will inform you if your path statements are incorrect and set them for you.

Once that is done, start up MapFinder (not Civ4, but MF itself). Click on the File in the taskbar and chose Rule Builder. It'll bring up another window that will show four groups and have several arguments in each group. These are the arguments, or cases, that MF uses to save maps according to your specifications.

I usually just regen until i find a map with a gold mine. I swear thats the best resource in the game.

Let's get MF setup for your above statement, so please follow these suggestions.

You're best bet is to create a new group (group #5) and create a rule that has a commerce resource as the argument with a minimum of 1 and 999 as maximum. Make that your only argument for that group. To do that, do this:
Click Add Grp
Highlight Rule #1 on the group you just created
At the bottom of the screen you'll see several data input boxes. The second box will have the statement "Rule Category" above it and possibly have "Terrain Groups" in the box. If you hit the scroll button you'll get more options. Click the scroll button and scroll down and select "Bonus Groups".
In the box to the right of the above box it'll have a heading of "Rule Selection" above it. Click the scroll bar to get more options. Scroll down and select "Commerce Resource".
To the right of that box are two boxes labeled "Min" and "Max". Make sure "Min" is set to 1 and "Max" is set to 999.
In the bottom right-hand corner is a box labeled "Test Range:" with "Tiles" labeled beside the box. There is a scroll button for more options. Click the scroll button and scroll down and select 999. This will make it so that any map that has a commerce resource showing in the visible map will be save.
Now click "Save" and choose your options. If you save it as default you don't have to do anything else. If you save it under a different name you'll need to than inform MF to use that particular ruleset. To do that you need to bring the ruleset you just saved and click "Load" and pick the ruleset you want.

I hope that helps and it's not too confusing.

Isn't there a manual or faq in progress?

Yes, but this week is finals week, so I'm a bit preoccupied.

Whoops, I guess I should also mention that MF will save maps that agree with any one of the groups. In other words, if you modified the default.rul file you're group you created will be group 5, but that doesn't mean it will only save maps that agree with group 5. It'll check each map to see if it follows all arguments for specific group, so any maps saved could be from either group 1 thru 5. If you want to only save maps with your commerce argument, than you need to remove the other groups. If you do that, I suggest you name your rules file something other than default.

I hope that helps.

Sorry for the triple post, but I noticed I forgot some very important information regarding MF.
Go to your in-game Options screen and under one of the HoF tabs (I don't recall off-hand which one) you'll find the MapFinder information. You need to check the MapFinder box to make it active. Checking this box basically turns it on.
Once MF is setup, to start the map searching:
Go to Custom Game and choose the settings you desire and than launch your game.
Once your initial screen comes up where you are able to move your settler and scout/warrior press Alt-M. This will initiate MapFinder and begin the process.
Sit back and watch, or just walk away.
If you wish to end MF while it is running, press Alt-X. Note, that if you press it in the middle of its process, it will probably continue to the next map before terminating.

Hopefully I've remembered everything now. :old: