WOTM 08 Final Spoiler

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Please don't show any screenshots, nor discuss, the locations of any modern resources (aluminium, uranium, coal).

My first time in a "final spoiler" --- does oil count as a modern resource too?

D'oh thought I was going to be first, serves me right for rambling.

My note taking during this game was pretty slack so will have to do this from memory. After settling my half of continent, looked to set up large trade and specialist foundation in a couple of cities. I didn't really check out Mansa's land too much as he proved a good trading partner early and I wasn't ever really in a position to take him after my earlier set backs. I got to Optics and set sail and met the other continent, and set forth to get to MM asap, I eventually built UN in appox mid 1600's.
Unfortunately as per usual I had left it far too late to try and sort out diplo situation to be able to be quickly voted in. The whole other continent hated Mansa, and unfortunately thus took that out on me a bit. They were all Buddhist we weren't. I had tried to sneak Buddhism by settling a couple of new cities but they just brought in religions I already had. Fortunately Stalin had been at war with Elizabeth and had took her down to a couple of cities. I forced him to peace with her to save at least one for me, put together a few troops and sent them over to take Nottingham, quickly rushed a few missionaries to spread it in the homeland.
I was hoping/assuming that I would get a decent positive diplo bonus as soon as I switched but had to wait for it to build up over time/more I spread through main cities. During this time unfortunately Mansu had become a bit upset that I was now ignoring him and playing with my new friends to the point he DOW'd on me. Fortunately he had ignored his millitary so his initial attacks were comfortably beaten back and now I was in a position to move on into his lands.
JC also Dow'd on me setting his sites on Nottingham, as I didn't need this city anymore, but rather save it from the evil romans I gifted it to Stalin, and tried to get everyone to gang up on JC, only Stalin did but he took a couple of Roman outer cities to help gain a couple more votes.
Eventually around 1780, manged through a combination of Mansa and JC losing cities to me and Stalin and Hannibal and Cyrus eventually giving me a decent religion diplo bonus managed to accrue enough votes for victory.
Final score was about 21k, as only still had a smallish empire/ingame score.

My first time in a "final spoiler" --- does oil count as a modern resource too?

In the context of I should have been first, yes oil is surely a modern resource!!!
Delete his/her posting!!!! :p

D'oh thought I was going to be first, serves me right for rambling.

My note taking during this game was pretty slack so will have to do this from memory. After settling my half of continent, looked to set up large trade and specialist foundation in a couple of cities. I didn't really check out Mansa's land too much as he proved a good trading partner early and I wasn't ever really in a position to take him after my earlier set backs. I got to Optics and set sail and met the other continent, and set forth to get to MM asap, I eventually built UN in appox mid 1600's.
Unfortunately as per usual I had left it far too late to try and sort out diplo situation to be able to be quickly voted in. The whole other continent hated Mansa, and unfortunately thus took that out on me a bit. They were all Buddhist we weren't. I had tried to sneak Buddhism by settling a couple of new cities but they just brought in religions I already had. Fortunately Stalin had been at war with Elizabeth and had took her down to a couple of cities. I forced him to peace with her to save at least one for me, put together a few troops and sent them over to take Nottingham, quickly rushed a few missionaries to spread it in the homeland.
I was hoping/assuming that I would get a decent positive diplo bonus as soon as I switched but had to wait for it to build up over time/more I spread through main cities. During this time unfortunately Mansu had become a bit upset that I was now ignoring him and playing with my new friends to the point he DOW'd on me. Fortunately he had ignored his millitary so his initial attacks were comfortably beaten back and now I was in a position to move on into his lands.
JC also Dow'd on me setting his sites on Nottingham, as I didn't need this city anymore, but rather save it from the evil romans I gifted it to Stalin, and tried to get everyone to gang up on JC, only Stalin did but he took a couple of Roman outer cities to help gain a couple more votes.
Eventually around 1780, manged through a combination of Mansa and JC losing cities to me and Stalin and Hannibal and Cyrus eventually giving me a decent religion diplo bonus managed to accrue enough votes for victory.
Final score was about 21k, as only still had a smallish empire/ingame score.

It looked like we had the same religious issue. Mansa and I together popped all religion except Buddism. (It was my fault :(, Mansa only popped 2 of the 6.) So, the other continent united as a rock. I really had a hard time invading them and my score sucked as well. Domination in 1685AD.

How embarrassing.

I had a space race LOSS to the Mansa Monster.

I fell so far behind that cultural was the only option I had left. I was on track, but there was nothing I could see to do to stop the SS Mali from lifting off.

It's just that the oil situation completely determined how my game went.. I can't really describe things properly without talking about oil.

I had my first-ever modern age war! (It was fun) :D

Another poor start by me. I stole a MM-worker that was building a mine on the golden flood plain :D. That put him back a lot, I presume. I settled two cities up north, and one south. I also built the GW and the Pyramids. Then I attacked Mansa, but I was about ten turns late (he just connected the iron), and I was very unlucky with the RND (lost a 90% win). The timing was awful. If I had followed my initial plan (chariot rush) I wouldn't have wasted as many units as I eventually did.

To cut a long story short, I destroyed MM, lightbulbed Machinery and Astronomy (avoided Meditation of course), and attacked the other continent (Stalin, Hannibal, Elisabeth, Cyrus and Julius), achieving a conquest victory in 1595 AD.

I made several mistakes:
Building the pyramids instead of chariots for a rush.
Farming the Flood Plains instead of cottaging them (lightbulbing is not as advantageous on Noble difficulty compared to higher levels)
Delayed Optics (wrong research focus).

I also think it would have been better to use MM as trade partner, and killing him last.

Thanks for the map, it was fun to play.

@Erkon:
When did you start the war on Mansa, and what kind of resistence you have on the other continent?

This was the most frustrating diplo game I've ever played.


I met the other continent around 750AD, everyone was soon mad at me for trading with their worst enemy...I thought it was because I was trading with all of them, but then realized it was because Mansa was hated by them all(except Elizabeth). So I bet the bullet, severed all relations with Mansa, and gave up my best trading partner at the time. Everyone had -4 relations for trading with him, and I went no religion the entire game since I founded no religions and Hinduism/Judaism migrated to a single city each.

I teched faster than I've ever done in a GOTM, and built the UN in 1680AD.

Just a few turns before, I had Cyrus +8, Hannibal +9, Stalin +9, Elizabeth +12, Caesar +9...the penalty for trading with the worst enemy had disappeared thanks to ignoring all of Mansa's friendly overtures for almost 1000 years. However, Mansa had been building up his military and I'd been ignoring the military techs...so in 1650AD, when he demanded Physics from me, I acquiesed to prevent him from warring with me...my military was entirely warriors and chariots still.

I had always thought that giving in to a demand didn't count as a trade...I was wrong though, because instantly everyone on the other continent went back to -4 for trading with the worst enemy(except Lizzy) which pretty much lost me my shot at fastest diplo.

Ensuing was the most frustrating diplo game I've ever had. Everyone refused to forget I had given in to his demands...Lizzy became a peaceful vassal to Stalin, and over the course of the next 100 years, I slowly increased my civics bonuses with Hannibal, Caesar and Cyrus...I finally got them all up to voting range again(Hannibal was at +8 and I needed him at +9, Cyrus was +9, Caesar was +8)...and the worst thing that could happen happens...Cyrus discovered Biology and surpasses Mansa in size, making him my opponent rather than Mansa being my opponent. I then almost LOST a diplo victory when Stalin(#3 in pop now) voted for Cyrus and all I had voting for me was Elizabeth(last in pop).

I gifted Biology to Lizzy and she traded it away to both Stalin and Mansa(yay!), and I hoped for my trade modifier to go away and for Mansa to pass Cyrus again...I spent the next 70 years doing that. It never happened. It is now 1890AD, I've almost finished the Apollo Program and only have 3 techs left to research before I'm done with all the spaceship techs.

I take note that Mansa is 25 votes behind Cyrus...so I gift Mansa 3 cities: 1892AD- gift Bursa(size 9)(next to the marble), Konya(size 9)(next to North wine), and Jute(size 13)(on top of north iron)

I then proceed to go blind and not see this message:
"Cyrus switches from Vassalage to Bureaucracy"

That removed my +4 for civics, but I didn't see that message...so when the next vote came, Mansa was largest by 3 votes...but I didn't win because I didn't get Cyrus' votes like I should have...that's when I realized what happened. Of course, the next vote, Cyrus has overtaken Mansa again...and I'm having to watch Mansa farm over the towns I built in those cities :(

I try switching to Bureaucracy to match Cyrus again, and also switch from Free Market to State Property to get civics points with Stalin. It doesn't work, I gain points with Stalin, lose points with Hannibal, and don't get anything with Cyrus.

In 1925AD, I finish the Apollo Program and all research is done for its parts...so if the next two votes don't work, I decide I'll just go for a mediocre to bad space race victory.

1929AD: I convert back to Vassalage.
1930AD: I convert Cyrus to vassalage in exchange for Plastics, bribe Stalin(and thus Elizabeth) into war with Mansa for Radio, bribe Caesar into war with Mansa for Robotics, and gift Zhou(size 18)(on coast, next to all that Sugar) to Mansa.

I hope that I recover my points with Cyrus, and am preparing for the possible need to war with Mansa for mutual war points with everyone(I can bribe Cyrus and Hannibal if needed once I declare).

That puts Mansa 5 votes ahead of Cyrus, and finally delivers the Diplo win to me in 1932AD. Cyrus, Stalin, Elizabeth, and Caesar all voted for me. I had 490 votes, only 60 of which came from me, now that I've given Mansa 4 large cities.

In Summary:
2 technologically advanced and trading civs will be far advanced over a continent with 5 civs of differing religions(I was behind Mansa when I found the other continent but was 3-4 techs ahead of everyone on the other continent)
It would have been better to switch my Palace to a different city and just gift Istanbul to Mansa, I would have won in the 1700s still.
Don't give in to demands from a worst enemy, it counts as a trade.
Someone better win a diplo pre-1680AD or I'm gonna be very ticked at myself.
My speed ranking is gonna suck for this game lol

Final thought: a cottage powered economy will be more powerful than a resource powered one in the late-game...At 1500AD, Mansa was still the #1 economy, but by 1650AD, Caesar, Hannibal, and me had all passed him in tech and left him behind.

Stats:
1400AD- 550 beaker/turn research
1600AD- 900 beaker/turn research
1750AD- 1500 beaker/turn research

It's just that the oil situation completely determined how my game went.. I can't really describe things properly without talking about oil.

I had my first-ever modern age war! (It was fun) :D

you can talk about it, you just can't mention where you found it.

On a related note...why can't we talk about where modern resources are? in order to read this thread everyone has to have submitted the game anyway, so how would that be a spoiler?

2 technologically advanced and trading civs will be far advanced over a continent with 5 civs of differing religions(I was behind Mansa when I found the other continent but was 3-4 techs ahead of everyone on the other continent)
Same thing happened here --- except I didn't even trade with Mansa the whole game! I don't have any idea what was wrong with the other continent... they had ZERO wars with each other before I met them, but I was still ahead of them by about 3-4 in tech (although I was 7 or 8 behind Mansa).

why can't we talk about where modern resources are?
That's what I'm wondering. :) I'll just post what I have without that fun point though.

@Erkon:
When did you start the war on Mansa, and what kind of resistence you have on the other continent?

Apart from the worker steal, I fought MM from 450 BC to 820 AD (war ended with the capture of Timbuktu), and from 1010 AD to 1030 AD (Mali eliminated).

I DoW on the other AI at these years:
1220 AD - Russia
1390 AD - Carthage
1505 AD - England
1530 AD - Persia
1550 AD - Rome

The victory was delayed several turns due to me DoW'ing too late. It took a lot of turns before the AI was willing to talk to me (which enabled capitulation). I probably lost about 10 turns due to that. Also, I bribed Cyrus and Julius into a war, and that war ended a few turns after I attacked Cyrus. That meant that he could not capitulate since he could not enter war with Rome. I did not predict that scenario. Another lessons learned :)

Units destroyed by me:

Turn Year Epoch Hammers TotalH Unitname
10 3640 BC 0 0 Lion
22 3160 BC 0 0 Lion
25 3040 BC 60 60 Worker
33 2720 BC 0 60 Panther
35 2640 BC 0 60 Wolf
42 2360 BC 0 60 Panther
60 1640 BC 15 75 Warrior
64 1480 BC 15 90 Warrior
72 1160 BC 15 105 Warrior
72 1160 BC 15 120 Warrior
79 925 BC 15 135 Warrior
90 650 BC 15 150 Warrior
91 625 BC 15 165 Warrior
93 575 BC 15 180 Warrior
98 450 BC 60 240 Worker
99 425 BC 35 275 Axeman
102 350 BC 25 300 Archer
124 200 AD 35 335 Spearman
127 275 AD 25 360 Archer
130 350 AD 25 385 Skirmisher
134 450 AD 50 435 Longbowman
134 450 AD 25 460 Skirmisher
134 450 AD 25 485 Skirmisher
134 450 AD 35 520 Axeman
134 450 AD 35 555 Spearman
134 450 AD 25 580 Chariot
138 540 AD 50 630 Longbowman
138 540 AD 50 680 Longbowman
140 580 AD 35 715 Spearman
141 600 AD 35 750 Axeman
143 640 AD 35 785 Axeman
145 680 AD 50 835 Longbowman
145 680 AD 25 860 Skirmisher
145 680 AD 25 885 Skirmisher
150 780 AD 50 935 Galley
150 780 AD 25 960 Skirmisher
150 780 AD 25 985 Skirmisher
150 780 AD 25 1010 Skirmisher
150 780 AD 50 1060 Longbowman
150 780 AD 35 1095 Axeman
152 820 AD 25 1120 Chariot
162 1010 AD 60 1180 Worker
163 1020 AD 50 1230 Longbowman
163 1020 AD 0 1230 William the Conqueror
163 1020 AD 50 1280 Longbowman
164 1030 AD 50 1330 Longbowman
164 1030 AD 50 1380 Longbowman
164 1030 AD 50 1430 Longbowman
171 1100 AD 15 1445 Warrior
177 1160 AD 50 1495 Galley
178 1170 AD 50 1545 Galley
179 1180 AD 50 1595 Galley
186 1250 AD 50 1645 Galley
186 1250 AD 60 1705 War Elephant
186 1250 AD 50 1755 Longbowman
186 1250 AD 50 1805 Longbowman
186 1250 AD 40 1845 Swordsman
186 1250 AD 40 1885 Swordsman
186 1250 AD 35 1920 Spearman
186 1250 AD 50 1970 Horse Archer
186 1250 AD 50 2020 Galley
188 1270 AD 50 2070 Galley
188 1270 AD 70 2140 Maceman
189 1280 AD 50 2190 Galley
191 1300 AD 40 2230 Swordsman
191 1300 AD 40 2270 Swordsman
191 1300 AD 50 2320 Horse Archer
191 1300 AD 35 2355 Axeman
191 1300 AD 50 2405 Longbowman
193 1320 AD 50 2455 Galley
194 1330 AD 50 2505 Longbowman
194 1330 AD 50 2555 Longbowman
194 1330 AD 70 2625 Maceman
194 1330 AD 50 2675 Galley
195 1340 AD 50 2725 Longbowman
195 1340 AD 50 2775 Galley
196 1350 AD 50 2825 Horse Archer
196 1350 AD 50 2875 Horse Archer
196 1350 AD 25 2900 Chariot
196 1350 AD 50 2950 Horse Archer
197 1360 AD 50 3000 Galley
199 1380 AD 50 3050 Galley
200 1390 AD 50 3100 Galley
203 1420 AD 50 3150 Longbowman
203 1420 AD 50 3200 Longbowman
203 1420 AD 50 3250 Longbowman
203 1420 AD 50 3300 Longbowman
203 1420 AD 50 3350 Longbowman
203 1420 AD 60 3410 Pikeman
203 1420 AD 40 3450 Catapult
203 1420 AD 90 3540 Knight
203 1420 AD 50 3590 Longbowman
203 1420 AD 60 3650 Pikeman
203 1420 AD 40 3690 Swordsman
205 1440 AD 50 3740 Longbowman
207 1460 AD 50 3790 Longbowman
207 1460 AD 50 3840 Longbowman
207 1460 AD 60 3900 Pikeman
207 1460 AD 60 3960 Trebuchet
207 1460 AD 90 4050 Knight
207 1460 AD 70 4120 Maceman
207 1460 AD 70 4190 Maceman
207 1460 AD 50 4240 Longbowman
207 1460 AD 60 4300 Crossbowman
208 1470 AD 50 4350 Longbowman
208 1470 AD 50 4400 Longbowman
212 1505 AD 60 4460 Worker
213 1510 AD 70 4530 Maceman
213 1510 AD 70 4600 Maceman
214 1515 AD 50 4650 Longbowman
214 1515 AD 50 4700 Longbowman
214 1515 AD 50 4750 Longbowman
214 1515 AD 60 4810 Pikeman
214 1515 AD 60 4870 Pikeman
214 1515 AD 35 4905 Axeman
214 1515 AD 50 4955 Longbowman
214 1515 AD 50 5005 Longbowman
214 1515 AD 40 5045 Swordsman
214 1515 AD 60 5105 Pikeman
214 1515 AD 70 5175 Maceman
214 1515 AD 50 5225 Longbowman
214 1515 AD 40 5265 Catapult
215 1520 AD 50 5315 Longbowman
215 1520 AD 50 5365 Longbowman
217 1530 AD 60 5425 Pikeman
217 1530 AD 60 5485 War Elephant
217 1530 AD 50 5535 Longbowman
218 1535 AD 60 5595 Crossbowman
218 1535 AD 60 5655 War Elephant
218 1535 AD 60 5715 Trebuchet
219 1540 AD 50 5765 Longbowman
219 1540 AD 60 5825 Pikeman
219 1540 AD 50 5875 Longbowman
219 1540 AD 50 5925 Longbowman
219 1540 AD 15 5940 Warrior
220 1545 AD 40 5980 Catapult
221 1550 AD 50 6030 Longbowman
221 1550 AD 90 6120 Knight
221 1550 AD 70 6190 Maceman
221 1550 AD 90 6280 Knight
221 1550 AD 60 6340 Pikeman
221 1550 AD 35 6375 Axeman
221 1550 AD 60 6435 Caravel
221 1550 AD 25 6460 Archer
222 1555 AD 50 6510 Longbowman
222 1555 AD 90 6600 Knight
223 1560 AD 50 6650 Longbowman
223 1560 AD 60 6710 Pikeman
223 1560 AD 50 6760 Longbowman
223 1560 AD 60 6820 Pikeman
223 1560 AD 50 6870 Longbowman
223 1560 AD 50 6920 Longbowman
223 1560 AD 60 6980 Pikeman
223 1560 AD 35 7015 Axeman
223 1560 AD 60 7075 Caravel
223 1560 AD 80 7155 Musketman
223 1560 AD 45 7200 Praetorian
223 1560 AD 60 7260 Pikeman
223 1560 AD 60 7320 Pikeman
223 1560 AD 60 7380 Trebuchet
223 1560 AD 70 7450 Maceman
224 1565 AD 60 7510 Pikeman
224 1565 AD 80 7590 Musketman
224 1565 AD 50 7640 Longbowman
224 1565 AD 80 7720 Galleon
224 1565 AD 60 7780 Pikeman
224 1565 AD 60 7840 Trebuchet
224 1565 AD 80 7920 Musketman
224 1565 AD 50 7970 Trireme
224 1565 AD 60 8030 Trebuchet
224 1565 AD 60 8090 Trebuchet
225 1570 AD 15 8105 Warrior
226 1575 AD 50 8155 Longbowman
226 1575 AD 60 8215 Crossbowman
227 1580 AD 50 8265 Longbowman
227 1580 AD 70 8335 Maceman
227 1580 AD 60 8395 War Elephant
227 1580 AD 60 8455 War Elephant
227 1580 AD 35 8490 Axeman
227 1580 AD 70 8560 Maceman
227 1580 AD 70 8630 Maceman
227 1580 AD 50 8680 Longbowman
227 1580 AD 50 8730 Longbowman
227 1580 AD 50 8780 Longbowman
227 1580 AD 60 8840 Crossbowman
227 1580 AD 45 8885 Praetorian
227 1580 AD 45 8930 Praetorian
227 1580 AD 60 8990 Pikeman
227 1580 AD 40 9030 Catapult
228 1585 AD 50 9080 Longbowman
228 1585 AD 60 9140 Crossbowman
228 1585 AD 45 9185 Praetorian
228 1585 AD 40 9225 Swordsman
228 1585 AD 60 9285 Crossbowman
228 1585 AD 35 9320 Axeman
229 1590 AD 70 9390 Maceman
229 1590 AD 45 9435 Praetorian
229 1590 AD 45 9480 Praetorian
229 1590 AD 60 9540 Pikeman
229 1590 AD 60 9600 Trebuchet
229 1590 AD 25 9625 Immortal

It's just that the oil situation completely determined how my game went.. I can't really describe things properly without talking about oil.

I had my first-ever modern age war! (It was fun) :D

Talk about oil all you want - just don't make any reference to where you found it, or show any screenshots of its locations.

Where we left off in spoiler 1 (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=5358374&postcount=11) (500AD – 700AD)

In 500AD we were just building up our swordsmen army to deprive MM of some of his lovely lands. We knew he had hooked up his iron, but his forces still consisted mainly of skirmishers.

Well, we had an annoying bit of news while in mid build-up. He had promoted several skirmishers to longbows. Darn! Tougher. Need more military.

Just to depress us further, we heard that the Gt Lib had been build in a far off land in 580.

No matter! DOW’ed in 700AD!

The first bash at MM (700 – 1050)

The war started with another unpleasant shock. The borders of Djenne (MM’s iron city) just expanded – pinging my HorseArchers, who were ready to jump in and cut his iron, away. They tried to jump over to the iron mine anyway, but had to stop en-route and were killed!

The war went quickly to plan – at the start. Splatted a tiny city he’d planted in our part of the continent. Too small to survive. Then Gao, a major city by all the sugar, fell quickly to our swords. We kept that, of course.

There was a massive battle for Djenne, but it was in our hands by 980 – 14 turns into the conflict.

At this point I kind of lost my mind. The next city on from Djenne was Walata, on the N coast, on a hill, guarded by 2 promoted longbows. A red mist descended and I threw unit after unit at the stubborn defenders, finally taking the city in 1050 – at the loss of virtually my whole attack force! Waah! What was I thinking of? I didn’t even want the damn city. It was just there in the way, and I had to keep smacking the defenders until they died!!

The red mist cleared and I saw what I had done.

I had to patch things up with MM. He was evidently scared by my berserk forces, and agreed to give me some tech for peace.

Gearing up (1050 – 1210)

There was nothing else for it but to rebuild the military, so I settled down to a quiet spell of civilized improvement.
It also gave me a chance to think where I was heading. I was going to need Optics, and to increase my tech rate so that I wouldn’t be horrendously backward when I met the other continent inhabitants.

Our spies were also busy in MM’s land. He’d agreed to OB again, so my HorseArchers were snooping around checking his military strength – and seeing whether he’d hooked up his copper yet.
http://lh6.google.co.uk/image/civ4.AgedOne/RiubCQwJl_I/AAAAAAAAAQs/Kc5WsRpJZYo/s288/Civ4ScreenShot0057.JPG (http://picasaweb.google.co.uk/civ4.AgedOne/WOTM08/photo?authkey=cjS2KOW2dJA#5056305469812479986)

http://lh4.google.co.uk/image/civ4.AgedOne/RiubEwwJmBI/AAAAAAAAAQ8/s4EEXTCgB0E/s288/Civ4ScreenShot0059.JPG (http://picasaweb.google.co.uk/civ4.AgedOne/WOTM08/photo?authkey=cjS2KOW2dJA#5056305512762152978)


The second bash at MM (1210 – 1300)

Our aim was still to push MM away from the good lands and leave him as a puny, worthless neighbour, living in the unwelcoming corners of our continent.

In 1210 I figured we had a big enough military, and it was time to play round 2! This time, we had catapults, too.

Destroyed Tekedda, which he’d sneaked into our lands, right off.

Then we went straight for his capital – Timbuktu – ignoring all other distractions this time.
Bombard – collateral damage – push! Over it went in 1300.

This was what we came for. We had Timbuktu, the centre of 2 religions. His remaining cities looked to be in the poorer areas. So we made peace again, and he handed over the customary tech.

Becoming a better nation (1300 – 1490)

Having achieved what we wanted to militarily, it was time to get back on the research and civilization improvement trail.
Switched to Hinduism, since we had the shrine.
Set about ensuring we had plenty of libraries, set scientists up in a few key cities. Watched the GPP begin to rise.

We learned Optics in 1420.

However, before we could even get our first caravel out of port, we were contacted by someone from the other continent!

Meeting the World / Trading tech (1490 – 1690)

It was Stalin who first came sailing by. The meeting opened our eyes as to our true position in the world – which was poor. He was 300+ points ahead on the score, and had a string of tech that we didn’t.

Within 10 turns we had met another 4 civilizations – Hannibal, Cyrus and Elizabeth. With the exception of Liz, they were all doing equally well.

This was just what I had been afraid of. We were the poor cousins on meeting the new world.

At least we had our own caravels out and about exploring. I hoped for a circumnavigation bonus, but when within sight of achieving it, Cyrus beat us to it in 1570.

Things started to look up. First we met Julius Caesar, who wasn’t so advanced as some of the others. Then we learned Astronomy, and found that we could trade it with him. In return, he filled us in on 5 techs!
Liz, also, was happy to trade Astronomy for 3 of her own techs.

We were catching up.

When Hannibal gave us another 3 tech – and his world map – I didn’t feel so bad.

I set my civics up: Representation – Bureaucracy – CasteSystem – Decentralisation – Theocracy.
Our research approached gunpowder.

A slight worry was the military. Our exploring caravels could see that JC already had riflemen. It was evident that our Janissaries (when we had them) were not going to be making much impact on the world stage!

MM gets annoying again (1690 – 1780)

Back home, I was becoming increasingly annoyed at how MM was managing to wriggle free of his tundra prison that I had left him in.
Not only wriggle free, but exert unpleasant cultural pressure on our cities. Timbuktu, that you might have though could stand up for itself culturally, was having its borders compressed to the extent that it lost access to all of its gold!

Then he planted a city by the marble, just as I was planning the same. That’s a slap in the face if ever I saw one!

I began to think I had to do something to him he would remember for a long time.
Then I noticed he’d got grenadiers. I hadn’t. I had Janissaries. They weren’t going to beat them, were they?

Not everything was looking rosy for MM though. I noticed Hannibal had plopped a small city down on our E coast, including a rifleman. I wasn’t too worried. Hanni was a friend, and the AI are crap at launching naval invasions anyway. But Hanni declared on MM, didn’t he?! And dropped off a small contingent including grenadiers beside MM’s new marble city!

I watched with a smile as Hanni splatted the marble city – and I nipped in with a settler to replace it.
http://lh4.google.co.uk/image/civ4.AgedOne/RiubPwwJmKI/AAAAAAAAASE/LWJfvm_Ghh4/s288/Civ4ScreenShot0068.JPG (http://picasaweb.google.co.uk/civ4.AgedOne/WOTM08/photo?authkey=cjS2KOW2dJA#5056305701740714146)

http://lh6.google.co.uk/image/civ4.AgedOne/RiubRQwJmLI/AAAAAAAAASM/Js3nODwU9C0/s288/Civ4ScreenShot0069.JPG (http://picasaweb.google.co.uk/civ4.AgedOne/WOTM08/photo?authkey=cjS2KOW2dJA#5056305727510517938)

The final war with MM (1780 – 1834)

We were looking much better now in the world rankings. Just 50 points off the lead. Basically caught up in tech. We were just starting to build cavalry.

I’d had enough of it! “Dad. Mansa’s being annoying again! He won’t keep his culture over on his side!”.

A couple of turns before I was quite ready to jump in there and sort it out, Hanni invited me in. “I’m having a lovely time fighting this guy, but I’m doing it with only 4 units. How’d you fancy joining in?”, he asked politely. How could I refuse?

It took a few turns, and I was worried that some of my older units would be splattered by his grens if they got the chance (I was still using some swords and maces!), but it went alright.

Wadan was ours in 1806 and Tadmekka in 1812. That really relieved all the cultural border problems.

In 1830 we took their latest capital – Kumbi Saleh – and hit the top of the scoreboard in doing so!

By 1834, MM was down to a single, awful tundra city, and my forces (and Hanni’s) were outside the door. I decided to leave him alive at this point, and asked him for Capitulation, and all his money.
We had ourselves a vassal.
http://lh5.google.co.uk/image/civ4.AgedOne/Ri2_AgwJmWI/AAAAAAAAAVM/kYOCbznHTGc/s288/Civ4ScreenShot0080.JPG (http://picasaweb.google.co.uk/civ4.AgedOne/WOTM08/photo?authkey=cjS2KOW2dJA#5056907972119730530)

Preparing for a Space Race (1834 – 1926)

Sitting back and looking at the world, I decided there was no chance I could get any kind of military victory. However, I did have a good shot at a Space victory. Considering how backward we were when we first met the rest of the world, we’d done a fair job in catching up – and even passing – the other civs on tech.

The latest round of trading had been based on our invention of SteamPower. Hanni, Liz and Cyrus all traded us good tech for it.

Committing ourselves to a Space Race (or a UN if all else fails) we rolled up our sleeves and prepared. Set our civics to Representation – Bureaucracy – Emancipation – Free Market – Pacifism.
Made sure we had plenty of specialists working our cities.
Set the tech path for Rocketry.
Took off the handbrake.

We started getting factories in all of the best production cities, and then coal plants.

Learned Rocketry in 1870, and started the Apollo Program in Istanbul in 1876 (as soon as it had its coal plant).
I was hoping that we could pop a Gt Eng when Apollo was half complete, but it didn’t quite work out like that. On the good side, we learned Industrialism in 1896, revealing Aluminium – Under a mine that we already had !! Whoo! This brought the build time for Apollo right down.
On the bad side, the next GP to pop out was not the predicted Gt Eng, but a useless Gt Prophet.
Just to remind us that this was a race, and not a walk in the park, Cyrus completed his Apollo just 7 turns ahead of ours!

In 1926, our Apollo Program completed.

Apollo and the Space Race proper (1926 – 1981)

I wasn’t overly worried by Cyrus beating us to Apollo. I was fairly sure we had a better building potential than he did, and I was absolutely certain we were ahead of him on tech and weren’t about to be overhauled by him.

Through the twentieth century we continued to tech fast. Computers, Satellites, Combustion, Plastics, Robotics, Refrigeration, Genetics, FibreOptics, Fusion – all these came between 1922 and 1960. We were averaging about 4 years per tech.

The biggest and best bit of good news was when we discovered Fusion first, and the Gt Engineer we got through that completed the Space Elevator for us! 1960. Surely there would be no catching us now!

Stalin had joined the Apollo club by this stage, but wasn’t going to impress anyone.

I was still rather wary that somebody would start a huge war just near the finish. At least nobody had built the Manhattan Project, or the UN, yet. Those were complications I could do without.

So we all watched intently as the final pieces were added to the ship.
http://lh5.google.co.uk/image/civ4.AgedOne/Ri2_HgwJmcI/AAAAAAAAAV8/3-6Ba0_PRHQ/s288/Civ4ScreenShot0086.JPG (http://picasaweb.google.co.uk/civ4.AgedOne/WOTM08/photo?authkey=cjS2KOW2dJA#5056908092378814914)

http://lh3.google.co.uk/image/civ4.AgedOne/Ri2_JAwJmdI/AAAAAAAAAWE/V25PJC5h0hQ/s288/Civ4ScreenShot0087.JPG (http://picasaweb.google.co.uk/civ4.AgedOne/WOTM08/photo?authkey=cjS2KOW2dJA#5056908118148618706)

A couple of strange happenings. Gt Prophet Zoroaster appeared – and helped us out with Future Tech! We completed the Globe Theatre to celebrate the building of our SpaceShip!

Victory! (1981)

Our Space Ship launched in 1981!!

http://lh3.google.co.uk/image/civ4.AgedOne/Ri2_MAwJmgI/AAAAAAAAAWc/uyN2AoJxR2k/s288/Civ4ScreenShot0090.JPG (http://picasaweb.google.co.uk/civ4.AgedOne/WOTM08/photo?authkey=cjS2KOW2dJA#5056908169688226306)

Space Victory!

Base Score 4551.
Final Score 9244.

OK, the score’s not that great. I enjoyed the win.
(Can’t recall getting a space race win before. Not much of a video, is it?)

its more of a video than the diplo win video is ;)

Congrats on the win! It wouldn't have made a difference if you'd popped that GE with the Apollo Program being built...the Apollo Program is a project, and can't be rushed by anything.

its more of a video than the diplo win video is ;)

Congrats on the win! It wouldn't have made a difference if you'd popped that GE with the Apollo Program being built...the Apollo Program is a project, and can't be rushed by anything.

Ohh Yes. How dim of me. Probably just as well that didn't happen, then. Would have given me an excess of frustration just as things were going well. :D

The slow, painful and technically diplomatic victory of our great nation.

We left you in the "first spoiler" thread with two cities in 500 AD. Mansa had already researched Philosophy at that point, and things were looking grim. But hey, we had the Pyramids+Great Wall, so we were alive at least! And, we had placed our second city very far south to keep Mansa walled-in. And no open borders or tech trades, ever! So, how did it go?

The Summary:
500-1500 - The first Skirmish with Mansa
Behind enormously in technology, our first war with Mansa Musa pits our longbowmen and catapults against his riflemen. We lose, but luckily we started the war so he is unprepared with non-upgraded defensive units. We end the war by giving back his cities, and realizing we need a better strategy.
1500-1842 - The road to the United Nations
Meeting everyone else, we get them all to love us since they hate Mansa so much (and we had never traded with Mansa). Beeline for the United Nations, at which point Mansa figures out that we have a chance at winning. Mansa's infantry invade us while we defend with cavalry/riflemen... and our UN vote fails when a giant Western War starts simultaneously, making everyone hate us for trading with their new worst enemies. Diplomatic Victory will have to wait until we deal with Mansa.
1842-1946 - The Great Eastern War
Tech trades start to bring us up to (military) tech parity with Mansa, and our cavalry/riflemen hold off their infantry for a long time while we maintain naval superiority. Our Assembly Line research turns the land war into a stalemate, and our control of all the Eastern oil means that Combustion gives us complete control of the seas. Eventually, Mansa is defeated by Destroyer+Cannon raiding parties, and finished off with tanks in 1946.
1946-2048 - We Must Insist: You Will Stay On This Planet
By 1946 three Western nations had built Apollo programs, and there was no way we were going to make it into space. We did have a nice modern army, though, so we decided to try to win a Time victory by stopping everyone else from making it to space. The Western continent was Caesar/2 vassals/defense pact with Cyrus, and Stalin was alone -- we bribed Stalin into declaring war on a vassal, which broke the defense pact. Then we used our fighters/tanks/marines against Cyrus, who was now alone. Continuing our pro-Stalin and anti-everyone else policy, we razed enough cities to prevent anyone from going to space. In the end, our Modern Armor/Stealth Bombers were enough to eliminate the whole Caesar block, which gave us enough population for the Diplo win in 2048 (when Stalin voted for us!).


The Detailed History of our great Nation follows!
We refused to trade with Mansa at all the entire game, because we wanted to keep "our half" of the continent Mansa-free. The second city had been founded way, way south to choke off Mansa and keep him small, and so there was none of this newfangled "open borders" stuff. When we finally piled up some catapults and longbowmen to escort them (in 1390 AD), we figured, hey, let's see how a war goes... we know he has gunpowder and liberalism, but the city in view only has two longbowmen defending it.

By 1510 AD, our catapults are long dead, and our new "Janissaries" have all been slaughtered by rifleman. We return Mansa's previously "poorly defended" city in exchange for peace, and re-fortify our front city with lots and lots of longbowmen -- as though that will help against the enemy rifles.In this time period, we finally started to meet the other civilizations -- and everyone hated Mansa Musa a LOT. When they met us, the worst enemy of Mansa, they all fell in love with us -- especially when we played some tech trading with them. We looked around that continent and also noticed that none of them hated each other -- they just hated Mansa! We beelined for Mass Media and built the UN in 1832.

As it turned out, there had been zero wars on the Western continent until 1810 -- when a skirmish broke out that was quickly ended by our great nation's negotiating powers (gave them tech to make peace). We needed everyone to love each other and us!

Just before the first vote, though, it all came crashing down. On the same turn, the combined Julius Caesar/Hannibal block declared war on Elizabeth... and Mansa invaded our great nation, showing off his stylish new infantry. Everyone suddenly had a nice -4, since no one hated Mansa so much anymore and we were trading with everyone's worst enemies. The United Nations plan seemed to be doomed to failure, and now we needed to survive Mansa's attack --- we only had grenadiers and cavalry!Stalin joined the war against Elizabeth in 1846, and Elizabeth was doomed. Our technology lead over the West had evaporated, so we couldn't stop the war from happening and Diplomatic victory was a far-off dream now. Elizabeth capitulated to the JC/Hannibal block in 1862, and that now-enormous block signed a defensive pact with Cyrus in 1898.

All this time saw great naval and land battles in the Great Eastern War (which took place almost entirely on our soil), including the births two Great Ottoman Generals. The demon infantry were slowly whittled down by collateral damage, cavalry upgraded with retreat bonuses, and as many rifleman as we could muster. When we learned A-line, the war turned stalemate. But when we learned combustion, well, it was all over for Mansa.

Destroyers do very well against Ironclads, so keeping Mansa's oil disconnected meant complete naval superiority -- and we landed our troops at will throughout his empire, terrorizing his people. He eventually retreated from our lands, when we had a decision -- continue the war, or make peace? Cyrus completed the Apollo Program in 1914.

We decided to rush for Industrialism, and by the time we had tanks, our amphibious landings had completely annhilated Mansa's military. Timbuktu was razed in 1930 by ambhibious cannon assault, and Mansa was removed from the continent in 1946!With Mansa eliminated, we had achieved something we never thought possible -- only 400 years ago, our longbowmen were confusedly staring across the battlefield at rifles, and now the whole continent was ours! Now, we just needed to win. There was no way we could make it to space before the time ended, so we decided to make sure no one else did. With enough wars and city-razing, we should be able to take everyone else down and win a Time victory! Onward!

As soon as the war with Mansa ended, we bribed Stalin into declaring war on the enormous Caesar/Hannibal/Elizabeth block which was Defense-pacted with Cyrus. I have no idea why he accepted this deal, but maybe he thought he was only going to war with Elizabeth? :D Anyway, declaring war on Elizabeth meant that Caesar declared war on Stalin, breaking the Cyrus defense pact. Outstanding! We then brought over our tranports-with-tanks and our carriers-with-fighters and prepared for war with Cyrus. We were in no condition to help Stalin with the suicidal war he had just created, and we gladly took the -2 "you refused to help us during war-time!"

War with Cyrus started in 1964, with our Fighters, Tanks, and Marines against Cyrus' Marines, Artillery, and Infantry. We couldn't land any troops without them getting completely destroyed, so we played completely from the sea, razing four coastal size 20+ cities and ending the war in 1974. In that same year, Stalin capitulated to Julius Caesar, giving the big JC three vassals!! It was pretty clear who the next war would be against... especially when the big JC finished Space Elevator and SS Cockpit on the same turn in 1999!

Rome was razed in 2000, and a few more Roman size 20+ cities were wiped off the map shortly thereafter. Strangely, we noticed at this point that Stalin had broken free from JC in 1994, so we brought him into the war too. JC proceeded to capture both Moscow and St. Petersburg, but his population still dropped far enough for Hannibal to break free (the same year he builds his own SS Cockpit). The wars ended in 2009 for our air force to take a little break.

But Stalin was still stuck in the war with Hannibal! It was going poorly for him, so we agreed to take him on as a Vassal in 2011 and join the war against independent Hannibal, who only needed 3 more spaceship parts to win. By this time, Modern Armor were landing on the shores, and our bombers based in Russia were helping out our fighters based at sea. Carthage was eliminated in 2030.

Cyrus and Caesar both now needed only two more spaceship parts -- but neither had researched Ecology! Caesar researched Medicine, so we decided to finish him off as a precaution, invading in 2042 with Modern Armor supported by Stealth Bombers. Elizabeth was eliminated in 2044, and Caesar's Space Elevator city was captured, eliminating him in 2047.

Surprise! At this point we were happy with our Time victory, but Stalin gave us a surprise "thumbs up" in 2048 giving us the extremely late Diplomatic victory for an abysmal 5000-ish score. Cyrus never researched Ecology, but judging by the power graph, the war of the 1960s had made him a changed man -- by the end of the game, he matched us in power! He wasn't so focused on technology anymore, and just stockpiled Mechanized Infantry to defend himself. :P
My Mistakes:
Forgot about raging barbs early
Expanded too slowly
Thought of going diplo too late
Did not realize the implications of the oil layout early enough

My Successes:
Not trading with Mansa allowed me to win late wars with him as I slowly expanded
My 2nd city site gave me a LOT of culture right on his border, making wars easier
Realizing the importance of naval superiority early enough
Finishing off Mansa despite taking over 100 years
Breaking the JC/Cyrus defense pact using weird vassal mechanics
Air Superiority ++
Keeping one friend to let me base my bombers

Interesting Graph:
The GNP graph is sort of fun to look at, since the Golden Age of the Economy in this game was around 1940, and after that the general world economy was in decline for the next 100 years. Exactly as our great nation planned! Notice Cyrus's GNP, which drops down to below zero by the end even though he only needed two spaceship parts to win. I guess he really needed all that military? That sort of confuses me.
http://i87.photobucket.com/albums/k138/Cchhrriissppyy/Civ4ScreenShot0016.jpg

What a game! I had actually never fought a war in Civ4 that involved air units...
I got quite a crash course in it for this game, eliminating four civilizations in wars that involved aircraft carriers!


Edit: this was hilarious, sir: "I’m having a lovely time fighting this guy, but I’m doing it with only 4 units. How’d you fancy joining in?”
I must have gotten an extremely lucky break, with the Western continent behind behind me in tech when I met them despite me never trading with anyone, while you found a bunch of riflemen in the West. Or maybe my representation/pyramids economy was actually good? How was everyone else doing compared to the West?

Bah. Why do I have to be the only one that Mansa managed to beat?

My plan was to dominate the starting continent, get Caravels and then Galleons as fast as practical, and then invade the other continent. I figured on sticking to the bottom half of the tech tree as much as possible and beating on people with Knights and Janissaries if possible, with the option to move up to Cavalry and Grenadiers if necessary.

In other words, a pretty plain vanilla sort of game. And as I’m far from the best warmonger around my results were pretty plain as well. So I’ll keep this (relatively) short.

Home Sweet Home


I explored a little while my initial Settler and decided to establish Istanbul a bit west of our starting spot to share the flood plains with a later city. I ignored the Fish early and concentrated on Mining, Bronze Working, and Animal Husbandry instead. I wanted to explore rapidly so I went Warrior then Worker. I figured out early on that Mansa and I were alone on the continent and that I had Horses and Stone available.

My second city went North, in position to work Stone, Horses, and some of the north river flood plains. It was an excellent production city throughout the game. I built a third city to work the starting area flood plains I’d moved away from and some plains hills. No resources there at all, but a good production city nonetheless.

I decided to build the Great Wall to keep the barbarians off my back while I geared up to invade Mansa. And I went for the Pyramids as well so I could run a nice SE to keep my research strong even with no tech trading. I would successfully complete both. Naturally this delayed my offensive but I figured I’d need Catapults to take down his Skirmishers anyway.

Destroying My Friendly, Inoffensive, Neighbor

In 150 BC I declared on Mansa. My early-built Warriors and Cahriots pillaged his Copper and Iron but were quickly destroyed, shifting the action back to the North where my Catapults began to slowly fight their way through the string of cities Mansa had just extended to my borders. I trashed some cities, but kept those that were well sited. I’d researched Horseback Riding and as my Catapults made their way south they were joined by a trickle of Stable + Barracks promoted Horse Archers, plus some road-building Workers.

It was very slow going. Especially when Mansa started fielding Longbowmen. And I started getting downright worried when I saw a Maceman or two. But I just kept piling on the Cats and Hose Archers and finally managed to take down Timbuktu in 1090 AD. I made peace not much later. I fought two small wars later to finish Mansa off, mostly because that let me extort some tech from him first.

A Foothold in the New World

Thanks in part to techs lightbulbed with Great Engineers I developed Optics in 1290 AD. It didn’t take me too long after that to discover and map the other continent. I was pretty much on par in tech with everyone there except Hannibal, even though my SE hadn’t really been going all that long (I’d been running Police State for most of my war).

I stuck to my plan, developed Astronomy in 1490 AD, and promptly began preparing to invade the other continent. Elizabeth was in the process of losing a war to Hannibal, so she was the perfect target for my beachhead. I upgraded some Horse Archers to Knights and set sail with them and some Trebs. London and a second English city fell easily in the early 1600s, followed shortly thereafter by her Capitulation.

Grinding My Way To Victory

From England’s territory I was situated to either attack Hannibal or Stalin. I decided to go after Hannibal, who was the strongest remaining AI and who I’d need to get through to reach anyone other than Stalin. By the time my English War was over I was able to upgrade my Knights to Cavalry and I had a chain of Galleons linking me to the home continent. It took a few turns to ship over enough Cavalry and Janissaries to mount an attack, but when I started I was hoping for a walkover. But of course as soon as I entered his territory Hannibal started upgrading his Longbows to Riflemen. So I was forced to brute force my way much like I did against Mansa and it wasn’t until 1740 AD that he agreed to become my Vassal.

My army had been depleted fighting Hannibal so I once again had to stock up before declaring on Caesar, this time with some Grenadiers added in and my siege units upgrade to Cannons. Naturally this gave him enough time to get Riflemen too. That war went well enough that I felt able to declare on Cyrus and attack with the units shipping over from my continent. I knew for a fact that Cyrus couldn’t have Riflemen yet, and I was right. But I hadn’t noticed he had Cavalry. So that war bogged down almost as soon as it started. But eventually Caesar capitulated, my cities on the main continent finally filled in the last few available land tiles, and I picked off a few peripheral Persian cities. It was enough to give me Domination in 1822 AD, with a score of: 5046/44179.

My Vassal Has a Death Wish?

One oddity is that on the second-to-last turn Elizabeth broke her vassalization with me. I didn’t even know that was possible for someone who had capitulated in a war. Not to mention the fact that she only had two very small cities and one of them had gone into revolt due to cultural pressure from Russia. Needless to say she would have been crushed flat if the game hadn’t ended almost immediately.

ccccc, I think you will definitely win a prize for weirdest game in WOTM8. I've never heard of anyone playing a game out remotely like yours, with all the amphibious attacks and razing of huge, developed cities. It's a pity you didn't end the game with a rare time victory to cap off the bizareness. :crazyeye:

Kudos to you for finding strategies that allowed you to capitalize on your strengths and come from behind.

if a vassal loses half its land or reaches half your population after becoming a vassal, it breaks free automatically. Most likely the revolt from Russia is what caused it.

Conquest 1400AD

edit: challenger class

dang...that's early. Care to let us mortals in on how you did it? :)

We left off in 500 AD (first post in the first spoiler tread) by having build a :science: monster in the capital, and considering a push for a (reasonably) early space launch. I had started spawning cities on the north half of the continent (including taking sugar-city from the barbs), and was still trading with a friendly MM.

In 620 AD, I popped a GP, and used him to found the Kong Miao. This helped my economy further, as I was spreading Confu actively both to my cities, and also to MM. In 720 AD, I revolted to serfdom since I decided that it was time to grow all cities to their pop limit, so I would not be whipping for a while, and because I wanted my army of workers to clear the jungle and get the lands cottaged asap. I adopted Mercantilism at the same time, since it was the best available economy civic, and I could do it in the same turn of anarchy.

I set of researching railroads to get the extra production from lumbermills and mines, and with that in hand, began researching my way to Liberalism (through education obviously) with the simple plan of getting 6 libraries up ASAP (I believe I had 7 or 8 cities at this stage), and building oxford in my science monster capital. Things were mostly uneventful during this time, except for a barb boat showing up and pillaging my two fishing nets. I quickly produced a ship to dispatch of it, and had to rebuilt two workboats, which was a mild setback, but not crucial since my capital was busy working cottages in any event.

After I got close to liberalism, I decided to check on MM, and saw that he still did not have education, so I had a few turns to spare at least (While I had not met the other continent yet, I decided that there was absolutely no why they where anywhere close to the teching that MM and I had been putting up, so that the race to liberalism was purely between the two of us.) Now, at noble level, I often like to wait on liberalism and try to take physics with it, and use the GS for a lightbulb (usually bio), but needless to say, that was NOT happening with MM around, so I had to decide what I could reasonably get. Since I was now focusing on launching off to space, nationalism did not really appeal, so I decided that Economy and the free GM were the best bet. I therefore started teching all the prerequisites for Econ, while keeping an eagle eye on MM to make sure that he does not get Liberalism before me.

In 1100, with all the prelims in place, Liberalism came in, and I took Economy with it. Having gotten the free great person, I decided that it now made sense to immediately trade econ to MM, and I got Compass, Construction, Drama, 170 gc, and an updated WM in return. I did not revolt to anything new at this time since Beurocracy was still better then the 2g town bonus, and with only one religion in each city, free religion was not better than OR (especially with all those libraries and universities to be build).

A couple of turns later, I decided that MM could also have Liberalism, and for that, I received Optics, Theo. Horseback and 50 gc, so as you can see, MM was nicely helping my backfilling of techs.

In my own research, I was heading for Democracy for the bonus production to all my towns. I got that in 1360, and revolted. At this time, I trade Constitution for Gunpowder, music, and 180 gc, and democracy for chemistry, divine rights, and 30 gc.

I decided that it was finally time to pick up Astronomy. I had not really avoided it thus far, but simply it had never been a top priority (I was confident that there was no trading to be done with the other continent since they surely had not been able to match the pace that MM and I were setting. During this time, I also began work on the Tahja Hall for the golden age. Honestly, I was not really expecting to get it given my late start, but I had nothing pressing to build, so I decided to give it a shot.

I was pleasantly surprised when I got it in 1410, the same year I finished Astronomy. I also met Liz and Cyrus that year (they visited with boats), and a couple of years later met Stalin (also his visit). In 1490, I started getting unhappiness penalties from people demanding freedom, and since my workers had finished the majority of their improvements, I revolted to Emancipation. That turn, I also traded Astro to MM for corporation and a few coins. I then researched steal, which I traded for Sci. Method, and proceeded to rocketry, which I learned in 1670 and started on the Apollo program. By this time, I had already finished oxford and the statue of liberty as well.

So, my empire for the space race was essentially set: In 1675m I had 10 cities, producing a total of 990 beakers per turn, 500 of which were coming from my capital. Of these cities, two were turning into very good producers (see pictures below). My capitol, which was currently building the Apollo project, and Edirne, which was at present producing the Iron works. In addition, I had 4 cities which had 25-35 hammer potential.

The plan for the spaceship was simple. Tech towards Aluminum first and hope we have some or can acquire some, tech to the space elevator, tech to all the parts, and build them! The space elevator and all the big parts would be assembled in Edirne and Istanbul. The second tier cities would build the castings and thrusters.

With this plan in place, I continued my persistent teching towards the ship. Not much eventful happened. I was able to trade for combustion, but had to research all other remaining techs myself. I did sell off dozens of techs to the other continent, basically given them one anytime they had 100 gc or so to offer. They were hopelessly behind, and this trickle of gold allowed me to keep my research at 100% almost the entire time.

I saved a few great people during this time, including one GE. I finished Apollo in 1770, and commenced work on the space elevator in 1836. I invested the GE into that, which greatly sped it up, and the same turn, triggered a golden age. Beyond that, just routine research and routine production. My last two parts where, as one might expect, were the engine (being built in Edirne) and the stasis chamber (in Istanbul). I timed these finish one turn apart (tried for the same turn, but missed), and finished each of them by using my army of workers to chop all the remaining forests in each city radius (knocking about 4 years of the completion date). This allowed me to launch for the stars while still in the 19th century (barely). The ship took of in 1898. I don’t remember the score.

dang...that's early. Care to let us mortals in on how you did it? :)

First of all, I must say I'm here not for competiton, but for education and fun:) . Because I usally play w/o barbarians, and actually played 1st time with barbs. So they ruined my 2nd city:blush: And this game was with 1 reload, which is not acceptable.

In this game I tried to repeat Obormot's strategy in SGOTM-2. As my level of playing is far away from great Obormot's (http://forums.civfanatics.com/member.php?u=58457) one, I think he would finish much ealier (eg 1000AD-1100AD or so)

So I made theese steps:
1. Making new cities as quickly as possible, to cover all bonus resources
2. Then I killed Musa with Swords&Cats (actually It took me very long time, I took Timbuktu in 500AD or so)
3. Parallel 2 GS were born in my land. 1st went to optics, 2nd went to 2/3 of astronomy (I misscalculated, cas I wanted 3 or 4, and even swithched to CasteSystems for while)
4.I finished Astronomy, whiped some Galeons and began invasion on the 2nd continent.In 1010AD I declared war on Elizabeth. I've finished in 1400AD having 6 Vassal states (I am a humanist :))

The most difficult AI was Stalin, he had large stacks of cats, horsearcher, etc.

Some stats:
When I finished I have built 13 Galeons
3 Generals were born, first two I used for exp, last was unused.
Maceman: built: 44, lost: 19
Catapult: built: 71, lost: 39
Swordsman: built: 19, lost:5
Janissary: built:4, lost:0
Grenadier: built:0, lost:0
6 cities founded & 6 razed
about 10 hours of playing

I want to post here my replay but don't know how :(
Could u plz help, with getting out actual date i'v learnt astronomy, cas I don't remember now

EDIT: I renamed .civwarlodsreplay in .civ4replay and it worked!

Hey, I finally completed one on time. :D

I never planned a victory condition. But given my play style I expected to win by space race, which is what happened. The outline below is a broad overview of what took place before "launching" my spaceship in 2001. I engaged in only one planned war, against Mansa Musa, in order to check his growth, as well as to grab the sugar along our shared border.

Mansa had been leading the points race, and he enjoyed a tech lead early on. However, I was eventually able to rest the tech lead from my rivals and rise to the top in points before final victory. Mansa and Stalin declared war on me, in that order. Against Mansa, I razed a city he had to my north and captured another two cities. I fought a defensive war against Stalin, taking out any units he landed. I happened to have a defensive pact w/ Cyrus when Stalin declared war, so I was able to get some gold & gpt from him rather quickly - compared to other wars. Cyrus did raze one of his cities on the other continent.

As for the "restless (?) barbarians," they never presented a problem because I had fog-busted my vicinity well.

4000 BC - Settled on starting tile; researching Fishing;

600 AD - Discovered Christianity (GP gifted Theology);

960 AD - Declare war on Mansa Musa (aim: territorial gain); captured Khoisan;

1000 AD - Captured Niani;

1040 AD - Clicked the wrong damn option and gave Mansa peace straight up! :(

1510 AD - Circumnavigated globe! :)

1775 AD - Mansa Musa declared war on me;

1780 AD - Used Great General to build Military Academy in Istanbul;

1785 AD - Razed (auto) Awlil;

1812 AD - Captured Djenne;

1840 AD - After razing 1 Malinese city and capturing two others, I signed a peace treaty w/ Mansa Musa for gold & gpt:

1912 AD - By trading Radio around for several good techs, my score jumps into first place - over Julius Caesar;

1916 AD - Signed Defensive Pact w/ Cyrus;

1922 AD - Convert to Universal Suffrage and Emancipation;

1928 AD - Built Apollo Program in Istanbul;

1933 AD - Stalin declared war on me;

1948 AD - Stalin gives 9gpt + gold for peace treaty;

1979 AD - Edirne b. Space Elevator (rushed w/ Great Engineer);

You've got to love that Space Elevator. It did help win sooner rather than later, but it probably wasn't necessary. My nearest competitor for space was Hannibal, and I had a lead on him by 3-4 parts.

All in all, I enjoyed the play - mostly builder w/ some warring. Of course, that won't win me any medals, but.... . Of course, the game didn't think much of my leadership - ranking on par w/ Herbert Hoover. :(

http://home.comcast.net/~dojoboy/mini_map_wotm08_final.jpg

http://home.comcast.net/~dojoboy/graph.jpg

http://home.comcast.net/~dojoboy/victory_wotm08.jpg

spolier

Ensuing was the most frustrating diplo game I've ever had. Everyone refused to forget I had given in to his demands...Lizzy became a peaceful vassal to Stalin, and over the course of the next 100 years, I slowly increased my civics bonuses with Hannibal, Caesar and Cyrus...I finally got them all up to voting range again(Hannibal was at +8 and I needed him at +9, Cyrus was +9, Caesar was +8)...and the worst thing that could happen happens...Cyrus discovered Biology and surpasses Mansa in size, making him my opponent rather than Mansa being my opponent. I then almost LOST a diplo victory when Stalin(#3 in pop now) voted for Cyrus and all I had voting for me was Elizabeth(last in pop).

I gifted Biology to Lizzy and she traded it away to both Stalin and Mansa(yay!), and I hoped for my trade modifier to go away and for Mansa to pass Cyrus again...I spent the next 70 years doing that. It never happened. It is now 1890AD, I've almost finished the Apollo Program and only have 3 techs left to research before I'm done with all the spaceship techs.

I take note that Mansa is 25 votes behind Cyrus...so I gift Mansa 3 cities: 1892AD- gift Bursa(size 9)(next to the marble), Konya(size 9)(next to North wine), and Jute(size 13)(on top of north iron)

I then proceed to go blind and not see this message:
"Cyrus switches from Vassalage to Bureaucracy"

That removed my +4 for civics, but I didn't see that message...so when the next vote came, Mansa was largest by 3 votes...but I didn't win because I didn't get Cyrus' votes like I should have...that's when I realized what happened. Of course, the next vote, Cyrus has overtaken Mansa again...and I'm having to watch Mansa farm over the towns I built in those cities :(

I try switching to Bureaucracy to match Cyrus again, and also switch from Free Market to State Property to get civics points with Stalin. It doesn't work, I gain points with Stalin, lose points with Hannibal, and don't get anything with Cyrus.

In 1925AD, I finish the Apollo Program and all research is done for its parts...so if the next two votes don't work, I decide I'll just go for a mediocre to bad space race victory.

1929AD: I convert back to Vassalage.
1930AD: I convert Cyrus to vassalage in exchange for Plastics, bribe Stalin(and thus Elizabeth) into war with Mansa for Radio, bribe Caesar into war with Mansa for Robotics, and gift Zhou(size 18)(on coast, next to all that Sugar) to Mansa.

I hope that I recover my points with Cyrus, and am preparing for the possible need to war with Mansa for mutual war points with everyone(I can bribe Cyrus and Hannibal if needed once I declare).

That puts Mansa 5 votes ahead of Cyrus, and finally delivers the Diplo win to me in 1932AD. Cyrus, Stalin, Elizabeth, and Caesar all voted for me. I had 490 votes, only 60 of which came from me, now that I've given Mansa 4 large cities.

Thrallia, that was an interesting read for me. Well done! Although it was frustrating for you, the thought process and steps you took for victory are beyond me - during game-play. I guess I'm too lazy, because I "should" be bright enough. ;)

Good job!

Ainwood, any chance you could post a save of this map allowing us to play as MM?

I'm just wondering what I would be able to do with that starting position.

after the scores are announced they'll post the worldbuilder save for the game on the GOTM website. If you download and play that save(I believe it is accessible via the scenarios section, but could be wrong) you can play as any of the civs in the game.

I finally decided to give up somewhere during the 20th century. As a last attempt for victory I built the UN but failed to get the necessary votes in my one and only chance.

I made the mistake of not declaring the war on Mansa early enough. At the time I did (around 800 AD) he was already too far ahead. I conquered one city from him, and struggled centuries to keep it until he finally accepted peace. Later I stole another city from him.

Much later (around 1800 AD) Stalin DOWed on me. I instantly bought Caesar for an ally. That war was still raging (on the other continent, Stalin sent 4 units to me) when I gave up. Everybody hated MM in my game so just before I finished UN I bought Hannibal and his vasal Lizzy to attack MM. Despite of giving gifts to Cyrus he was never willing to attack MM, his worst enemy. I joined the war couple of turns later.

I was hoping that mutual struggle would buy me the votes. Everybody except Stalin voted me in the first vote but in the victory vote only Caesar voted me while everyone else abstained. My DoW on MM had left me badly crippled so I had to buy peace again.

My military is pathetic, I'm behind in tech and I have no chance to get others to vote me without gang banging MM. Unfortunately I'm alone on my continent with MM and I can no longer sustain a war with him. With my skills I'm doomed. Better luck next month :)

Kuukkeli, I'm glad someone else had a tough time of things, like I did.

I really wish we could talk about the location of the oil, because it really completely determined my strategy from the moment I saw it. I'm also curious if it was placed that way on purpose! Poor Mansa.

weirdest
:D My "diplomatic" victory was hardly diplomatic, since I massacred tens of millions of people with amphibious assaults. This was certainly the weirdest game I've ever played! I'm glad you enjoyed reading.

The plan for this game was definited with the Mehmed's traits. Organised and expansive means ideal conditions for domination. Besides the Continents map with high water level makes this task easier. So I'm beginning:
Early ages and war with Mansa

4000 BC: Istanbul was settled in place.
3160 BC: Met Mansa Musa. We know the first victim. My intelligence reported (two scouts have explored the continent): we are the lonely neighbours.
3040 BC: Mansa is a buddhist.
2800 BC: learned Bronze Working. Ouch! No copper near my cities, and Mansa has aready connected to it.
1280 BC: Iron working. No problem with iron. Next step: beeline to construction. We need catapults, many catapults.
300 BC: Construction.
325 AD: Everything is ready for a war. Declared on Mansa, stole two workers.
350 AD: Captured Gao (Mansa Musa)
640 AD: Captured Djenne (Mansa Musa)
820 AD: Captured Niani (Mansa Musa). Mansa has longbows, so we need more catapults to make the way for our swordsmen.
1010 AD: Captured Timbuktu (Mansa Musa).
1140 AD: Captured Awdaghost (Mansa Musa).
Malinese Empire has been eliminated. Result: we are solely masters of the continent, have two holy cities: Buddhism an Christianity.

For the next wars I spread Buddism as a state religion to use it with Theocracy.
Beelining to Optics. I have to research without tech trade, nobody met yet.

1140 AD: Calendar
1190 AD: Compass
1230 AD: Optics
1240 AD: Began to build 4 caravels at once.
1270 AD: 1st caravel.
1360 AD: Contact to Juli. Not I but he found me.
1390 AD: Contact to Hannibal. Carthagian caravel near my shores.
1400 AD: I found Russians. Hello, Stalin! Nice to meet you (and thought: you are the next one).
1430 AD:
Researched Astronomy. Building Galleons. It's long way to Russia.:lol:
Contact to Cyrus.
1450 AD: Met Lizzy (or Betty, as you want). So, all the rivals are known.

The nearest plans were to declare war on Stalin an his vassal Lizzy. Stalin was the strongest at that time (I mean the 2nd after me) and I didn't want to see his cossacs before they appear. Lizzy has also quite a good UU. And the UUs of the other rivals are obsoleted. So they will stay for dessert.
War with Stalin

1515 AD: War began
It was not so easy to put down roots on the Russian territory. 5 Galleons full of Ottoman Grenadiers, Trebushets and Knights worked hard shuttling between continents and providing reinforcements.
1560 AD: Steel researched. We can build cannons.
1605 AD: Captured Rostov (Stalin)
1700 AD: Captured Moscow (Stalin)
1715 AD: Lizzy broke free from Stalin
1725 AD: I vassalized Stalin with two cities, Hannibal vassalized lizzy.

War with Carthago

1725 AD: May be Lizzy told smth bad about me to Hannibal but he decred war and Lizzy naturally also.
1750 AD: I gifted Military tradition to Stalin and his cossacs worked very good for me. He captured himself one Hannibal's city on the southern cape of the continent. Lizzy is not a problem more (R.I.P)
1775 AD: Ivan the Terrible (Great General) born in Istanbul!:lol: Not in Moscow
1804 AD:After capturing Carthage Hannibal capitulated with three cities. And I need 6,5% land area more. Who's next?

I had too choose between Juli and Cyrus-Virus. Juli had approx 50% of my military power but was scientifically ahead of all and was about to gain access to infantry and I am not yet. Cyrus had the same tech level as I but the military power the same also. I chose Cyrus.
The last war: World war

1818 AD: In a distance of one tech from Infantry I declared on Cyrus. But damned Julius declared also on me. So every civilization was in state of war.
1824 AD: I was too busy with Cyrus and his mass cavalry. So many cavalry I've never seen before. I lost Carthage to Romans.
Hannibal suffered from both Juli and Cyrus but made a good resistance. I gifted him rifling. May be it helped me.
1842 AD: Assembly line learned. Immediately gifted to Hannibal. After this year our business came up.
1862 AD: I had the cherished 64% of land area and Cyrus had only three cities and lost almost all his army. Peace treaties were signed with Juli and Cyrus and...
1864 AD: Domination

What have I learned in this game:
1. The Pyramids are very essential for domination game to have early Police State, 'cause war wearinness makes life terrible.
2. Never forget about researching.

This time, I didnt do so well.......:sad:

In this game, I made 2 fatal mistakes, which I wish I could have given a second chance to correct them.

Mistake#1 Ignoring Raging Barbarian

I really had a tough time with barbarians. Masonry was not my priorty and i didnt bother with much military tech. My first settler was kill my a barbarian (the warrior guarding was killed in a jungle by a barbarian warrior)

Also, by the time I was trying to build great wall, I see enemy axeman before I link up my resource. I had to keep sacrifing pop in my capital to prevent defeat. Barbarians keep coming to my capital like once in 5 turns. Overall, the barbarians gave me too much trouble in this game.

Mistake #2 Did not develop a strong economy

Well, thanks to the barbarian axemans and archers (I only had archers), my economy never really developed until later. My neighbor Mana Musa riped profit while I suffer. By the time I can handle the barbarians, Mana Musa was like 10 tech ahead of me. :mad:


Eventually, the difference reduce to 8, but I know there is no way I can win. :cry:

O right. I forgot to mention i retire in 1535, where I just finish gunpowder, while Mana Musa has tech beyond rifling. I shouldnt have underestimate this game because this is noble difficulty. Hard lesson learned.

What have I learned in this game:
1. The Pyramids are very essential for domination game to have early Police State, 'cause war wearinness makes life terrible.
2. Never forget about researching.

bugaga:lol:

Eventually, the difference reduce to 8, but I know there is no way I can win. :cry:
Look carefully at the modern resources on your map and how they are laid out -- your situation sounds a lot like mine, and I was able to beat Mansa in a (protracted) modern war (I guess I wasn't 8 techs behind, but I was definitely behind).
500-1500 - The first Skirmish with Mansa
Behind enormously in technology, our first war with Mansa Musa pits our longbowmen and catapults against his riflemen. We lose.

Played without much of a plan, late at night, very tired and unfocussed. And since this was Noble it was going to be easy anyway...

By the time I actually took a look at what was going on in the world I realised Mr. Musa had run away in tech and I needed to kill him ASAP.

So I bashed my feeble units into his brick wall for a few hundred years until I gave up. Not going to submit this one either... :(

I tried it again and played it to the point I knew I was going to win. I needed to do this, otherwise my self-esteem would have sunk to a new record low.

Interesting write-ups so far. A couple of pretty good conquest/dom times, but based on how fast some people teched in the write-ups in the other thread, i wouldn't be surprised to see some even earlier dates.

I think I may have really been an idiot because I didn't use GPs to pop techs. I got astro a little before 1000. I'm pretty sure I had a GS just sitting there. Sheesh. I continued on to get gun-chem-steel. I was amazed how fast a fleet of cannons takes down pretty much anything.

I also messed up my end game - I was planning to milk for a couple of turns at the end - but when I killed folks so fast with cannons, I went right past the dom limit without even popping my settlers at the end.

End result: Dom, 1655, 96K

I presume someone with more luck, better timing and smarter start can beat my conquest.

Doc TK - when did you get Optics and Astronomy? When did you finally defeat MM, and when did you attack the other AI? I deliberately played for conquest, so I vasselaged (is that correct grammar?) the other AI instead of capturing all their cities. Any hints on your progress would be much appreciated.

End result: Dom, 1655, 96K
And where is the catch? :crazyeye: I could theoretically get ~45k points.

Spaceship victory in 1964. Yay! :)

When I discovered Mansa, he had a Worker just building a Mine on a Hill/Plain/Floodplain/Gold tile. Whoa! I declared war at once to get that worker.

Unfortunately that worker was eaten by a lion two turns later :-(

I kept my Warrior on that hill which seriously crippled Mansa for quite some time till I got killed by the barbs.

I didn't make peace with him until ~1300 AD, as there was no threat from him, and I thought that might keep him from expanding too much. Only once he sent some troops, but luckily that was just as my first beelined Swordsmen were arriving... I then beelined to Catapults and started to amass forces.

The first city to fall was a barb city in 400AD which was easy. in 460AD the first Malinese city was captured, but then I stood before Mansas Capital and he had about 9 defenders (including 2 Longbowmen). I spent until 1310AD building Swordsmen and Cats, and then managed to take the city (while loosing 3 >90% balles :-( ) I took one more city, shortly sued for peace, to get some of the early cheap techs I missed, and about 15 turns later eradiced him.

In the meantime I went for Caravels and scouted the seas. Unfortunately there were no suitable Islands around, so I went for the circumnavigation bonus instead. The other continent was dived into three religions, and as I didn't yet adopt any, they were all neutral towards me.

I didn't really want to invade there, so I kept peaceful most of the time. I shortly entered a war agains elisabeth to gain the "Mutual military struggle" bonus, but with only one caravel there wasn't much war to be done :)

I tried to out-tech them, but failed on the Liberalism (Hannibal went golden-age on me...) but soon after managed to get most of the interesting wonders.

When my first spy ran around on the continent, I was shocked to see Hannibal already building the Apollo project. I bribed Stalin with three expensive techs to attack Hanball and stall him. During that war, I sabotaged his happiness resources to starve his biggest cities. (I really like that part :-))

I then went for the apollo project myself, completed it about 5 rounds after cyrus who was first. I managed to have all the required techs for the elevator ready as soon as the project completed, so I got that one, too.

THe rest of the game was just tech all the required parts, and build them. While I tried to optimize that, i spent the last 10 turns researching all remaining techs and building some happiness buildings and military in the hope it might boost my score a little bit. Until finally the SS Engine was completed in 1964 so I could finally leave that planet :)

Cyrus had all 5 Casings, but no other parts finished, so I won by a clear margin.

Base score: 4851
Final score: 11744

Cultural victory in 1862AD

I have a lot to learn about culture. Racing to build the Great Library got me a couple of scientists I didn't want and I was too slow spreading religions. (I founded Conf, Christianity, and Taoism; Mansa founded Hinduism)

Started well with a Civil Service sling in ~700BC and traded with Mansa (got monarchy for a switch to Bureaucracy and HR in 650BC) so I was researching Education in 500AD. Somehow I bogged down getting to Democracy and was late (1400AD) finishing research, building cathedrals and switching to 100% culture.

Missed the Pyramids by one turn (waited way too long to start) so I researched up to Democracy. Big problem, I only built 7 cities and didn't have many beakers outside the capital. MM had 2 near me that I thought I could flip. Unfortunately, he popped a few great artists and culture bombed back at two of my planned legendary cities. They finally flipped but too late to build temples.

Cyrus and Hannibal kept declaring war on me. I was able to repel the invasions but constantly losing my seafood and dropping my culture rate to rush buy units took a toll.

Mansa was building casings at the end of the game but nowhere near launching.

Edit: I didn't hook up the iron or horses until the early ADs and used cheap warriors as fog busters and military police. I built one spear and some cavalry at the very end of the game but the rest of my military was resourceless. (go, go janissaries!) Unfortunately, this meant Mansa captured the barb city south of the sugar fields which I then spent most of the game trying to flip.

First cultural game and Victory in 1959.:)

Originally planned on doing a culture game based on using the Pyramids to run a SE I had read at the time. When I goofed on the Pyramids because my GE (75% chance) turned out to be a GP-yeah I was trying one of the gambits I read about, my game started to wonder about. MM and I had all 7 religions on our continent and I had 6 of them (2 spread to me) around 1300 AD and it should have told me something. But by the time I realized about the 50% bonus for each religious building it was too late. At the end had 450% culure multiplier in all of my culture cities. Too bad. I submitted the game and I am replaying the game at the moment. Built the pyramids this time and got the CS sling. Only got 6 religions on the continent but should be able to do a better job since this time I also got to Liberalism first and got Calvary for free and thinking about killing off Mansa to keep the tech pace slow. Well Play and learn right.:)

I managed to win a space race victory in the 1st adventurer class WOTM I tried-too bad I didn't keep the save game; I only have the replay file to review. I aimed for a quick Great Wall since the Raging Barbarians and continued to get all GE wonders that I could in Istanbul. I expanded peacefully to 4 cities until 75 BC when MM began to send a settler through the choke point on our continent. That ended the peaceful part of the game.

Malinese Wars
I attacked and killed his settler party and waited until 75 AD to declare peace. I waited until 1100 AD and attacked MM again to take two of his cities to again slow his growth. He was teching like crazy-but his starting lands were phenominal. I ended the second Malinese war in 1200 AD after getting his world map and a pile of gold. Finally I waited for Janissaries and attacked MM in 1310 AD and conquered him completely in 1600 AD

Turtle Down and Arms Dealer
After this I decided to stand on my continent and pursue a space race win since during the final MM war JC settled on the one space island with Riflemen when I only had my janissaries. After getting Versailles built in Timbuktu my tech pace outstripped the AIs. Also Stalin got involved in a war with Hannibal later in the game. I decided to 'covertly' back Hannibal by gifting him older units (started with Longbowmen but by the end of the war in 1875 I was gifting Cavalry and Cannons since I had Gunships and Artillery) which allowed Hannibal to fight Stalin to a draw.

End Game
I built the Apollo Program in Istanbul in 1900 AD and began building my SS parts. My biggest mistake was not building the Space Elevator in Istanbul but building it in my Science city which didnt finish it until 1933-I probably could have saved 5 turns or more :sad: I also built the UN in 1931 to ensure that I would be one of the 2 candidates during UN elections. I had to abstain in the 1939 UN election for diplomatic victory since my final SS part was built in 1940 to complete the space ship and off to victory.

Unfortunately no save game and no points to report. I'll need to make sure I record a save game next time so I can submit.

nbcman

woot finally regained access to my computer I didn't think I was going to get the chance to submit. I played on contender and managed to a space race victory even though my end game fell apart. I find I get really bored with the later game and end up not really paying attention to everything I should. Here's a full recap of my game. I had a story line kind of mapped out but I'm too lazy to write it up now so you get a very straight forward recount

Founded in place and since the game was on noble I decided to take and gamble and race for an early religion and was able to nab Hinduism in 3400BC by working only floodplains for the gold. This dampened my production but what did that matter I was only building a warrior and it gave me a little higher population for when I started a worker after the warrior.
I didn't really have a plan starting out with this game but once I saw stone just over the hills after my boarders expanded I knew that I had to build the greatwall.
I sent my initial warrior south right away since it looked like greener pastures. I eventually stumbled on Mansa and stole his worker on the gold/hill/floodplains, had I known that he was the only other civ on the continent I probably wouldn't have declaired war so that I would have had friendly trading partner. This war also almost cost me my game. I forgot that Mansa would have his own initial warrior. While I was escorting my slave back to my capital(He made it there 2240 BC) the warrior and worker I built were off Improving the land. Mansa's warrior then popped up beside my boarders my warrior was too many tiles away to make it back to the capital in time but majically the Mansa's warrior didn't move to take my capital but just wandered inside my boarders. I think the noble difficulty saved my ass there. I eventually had to attack his warrior to get rid of it.
I pumped out a few more warriors and then a settler(whipped in 2200BC) to found a second city to build warriors to defend off the barbarian horde while I built the GreatWall in istandbul. Because of the distance between myself and Mansa I offered peace in 2160BC because I knew I couldn't wage a war over that distance.
2040BC I found my second city on the plain hills to north above the lake. 1960BC Judaism is founded in my second city. I switched to organzied religion because I wanted to take advantage of our leaders traits.
1240BC The Great Wall was completed which was great because I hadn't experienced any trouble from barbarians up to that point but with the wall I could leave my cities poorly defended with no worries.
775BC I founded my third city in the desert by the mountains way to the south to gain control of the gems sugar and marble. Hopefully it would also confine Mansa to the bottom of the continent.
75BC my first GE was born in Istanbul I used him to rush the pyramids(1AD) in my third city I put it there to mimik the mountains that were beside the city(I''m a big nerd and when I was writing my notes like a story I figured I'd have fun with ritual landscape ideas) This would also expand the boarders quickly and but pressure on the barbarian city that was to the west.
450AD Ediene finishes the parthenon, no real reason to build it just because I could.

I stopped taking good notes for the rest of the game. I was going for a peaceful spacerace(I'm not a good warmongerer) but later on closer to the industrial age I was side tracked by a by wars with ceasar and stalin if I recall correctly. It really pissed my off that they declaired without any real reason we had trading relationships. Since i was pretty far up in tech on the two of them I decided I could take a detour and developed nuclear weapons. This was the first time I ever used nukes, they did put an end to the wars pretty quickly. I didn;t want to try conquering any of them because it would take to long and I find modern warfare to be tedious. I used some GE I popped of the course of the game to rush the space elevator when I was able to construct it. I eventually won a spacerace in 1960.

The early portion of the game was pretty fun though I wish there where more civs on our starting continent. Once I filled in the north half of the continent I became pretty bored and let my game fall apart a bit.

P.S. can someone tell me how to put screenshots into my posts?

... P.S. can someone tell me how to put screenshots into my posts?

Taking screenshots
You take the screenshots by pressing the 'Print Screen' key. It'll place the screenshot into a folder My Documents\My games\Sid Meier's Civilization 4\Screenshots or My Documents\My Games\Warlords\Screenshots.
The images are saved as 'Civ4ScreenShot0000.jpg' etc.

An alternative is to press shift + print screen. This gives you the option to name the images as a screen pop-up asks what name you want to use. Although useful, this sometimes has the glitch of including the pop-up screen in the saved image.

Including into a post
To put the image into your post, you have several choices.

(a)
First, use the 'Easy Upload' system (The red button top right of the typing panel. This prompts you to browse for an image, which you then upload using the button provided. Having done that, it will tell you the URL of the image you have uploaded.

Now, for a full screen image, use the 'Insert Image' button above the typing panel. It will ask you for a URL. (You must have pop-ups allowed in your browser for this to work) You can give the URL from the upload system you got earlier.

(b)
Another alternative method is to use an attachment. This gives a small image of the screenshot, which can be clicked on to open the full-sized image.
To use attachments, use the button which has a paperclip symbol on it. You will then be asked to browse for the file on your PC, as before, and click 'upload'. When you have uploaded one or more images to a post, you can then use the drop-down list alongside the paperclip. This will show you a list of all the attachments you have uploaded, allowing you to select one. This places the attachment exactly where you want it.

If you use attachments, but don't place them anywhere, they will all appear at the end of your post - which might be what you wanted.

There are some more advanced techniques that some folks use - like using external photo-storage systems - but these main 2 are usually enough for most of us.



I hope I've written this in a way that you stand some chance of understanding. It's not nearly so complex as it sounds when you write it down.

(I probably should have included some images in a post all about how to put images in a post. :blush: )

My first WOTM submission!

Man I really thought warlords is a lot harder than vanilla... I started thinking a noble game should be nice and relaxing. What an error! In the early ADs I was about to give up, cause Mansa seemed just unbeatable either tech- or military-wise... But then I read the first spoiler thread by chance and thought oops, seems like I'm not the only one having problems here! So I decided to give it a go and made it my goal to at least wipe Mansa of my continent, come what may.
Well this I achieved, but it took me till about 1900 AD to do so, way to late (so I thought) to try and go for a military victory. I was tired of spaceship as well, as I've sent too many ships into space already. So I half-heartedly tried for Diplo, in the late 1900s I even got 20 votes close to winning but after that my fellow civs started to vote for Cyrus or to abstain, for no reason appartent to me. So in the end I achieved my first Time victory since olden Civ3 days!! welll... better than nothing hehe. I'll probably be the only one... just noted there isn't even a medal for time victory... oh well!
Another thing, in 1480AD my PC crashed because of a power failure and I had to reload the turn, I did everything the same as I had done before but I remember reading in the rules that in this case you have to send an email to the admins explaining what happened. I can't find the email address anymore though, maybe someone can help me out?

cheers sebtanic

you can just send them a private message via their forum accounts...click one of their names and click send private message, and let them know there.

They'll probably see it here, but its always a good idea to tell them also, just in case.

Domination victory in 1795... 48.9k score

War with MM took way too long. I wonder like some others whether it would have been better to take out the other continent earlier when they were hopelessly backwards & leave MM for last or never. I was hoping to cut through the other continent with Cavalry but after I took out Elizabeth, Stalin managed to tech rifling (?!?) which slowed me down A LOT.

I may have been better off avoiding Hannibal since he had a great big military. I think I could have taken Cyrus and JC faster (I had a ton of naval units and most all of Hannibal's cities were inland), but I was worried about a sneak attack by Hannibal. In any case I'm reasonably happy with my play this game after last month's immortal level.

PS thanks AlanH for submitting my save for me. A mystery computer problem seems to keep me from submitting GOTM or SGOTM saves lately:confused:

Like sebtanic said, so much for that easy noble game! Been wrapped up in my doctoral dissertation completion this semester so last several games have been played pretty much by the stopwatch, including the first part of this one.

Took the settler up the north hills, saw the stone, and then the two fish. Decided I wanted stone and one fish in capital (see screenshot), got a bonus when, after BW came up with no copper, AH put horse in the fat cross. So I kept the barbs at bay with chariots and went for great wall.

Got that at 750 BC (second screenshot). I had stolen a worker 875 BC to start the war. 200 points behind in score !?! :eek: I thought this was noble? Edirne was to become my troop city with the three hills to the east. That first was a phony war.

Built Hanging Gard in Istanbul to go with GWall, added Nat Epic and spat out GE and GS there. Expanded in the north and teched to caravels. Massive wave of exploration got me circumnav and relations with all others.

Shared Hindi with MM (he founded) to keep him happy. When I got gunpowder in 1230 AD, spammed janissaries and went after MM in 1280. They did a nice job at the start, along with trebs. Trebs really are the nemesis of longbows! :goodjob: A sac cat or two followed by CR3 trebs eats them up!

Took me until 1812 to get to the bottom end of the continent and wipe him out. Grens and cannons after jans and trebs, of course. WW was a pain.

Can I get a dom or diplo win before 1900? Eliz is the weak link on the other continent, so I go after her 1836. Take London and Nottingham on the coast. By now I am Christian, as is JC, Stalin and Cyrus. Free religion is likely to frustrate a diplo shot (unless I do a BP diplo gambit, ;) but I'm in a hurry), so the sword it is.

JC declares on me in 1848. He and I are close in score at this time, and he is ahead in tech. By 1892 Liz is dead, and I make peace with JC in 1896.

Well, no win before 1900! :sad: JC is starting to make casings. What is this game good for? Well there is no polar land, so now that I am done with the dissertation as I start the last sessions, let's go cow! :D

All cities to max food except a few key production cities. Spam universities and observatories to research all techs. Build Rushmore, jails and run Police State as needed to eliminate WW. MM was kind enough to have built Versailles for me in the south, so the GE I was saving built FP in London.

Hannibal is next on the list. Can get him and stay under the land limit for now. I declare on him in 1904. As I start going for his four cities, in 1916 he vassalizes to JC and they both come at me ... JC with tanks (I don't have yet)! In a planned retreat that would have made Stalin proud, I give up a Roman city I had taken, and York and Hastings to make a stand on the Coast at Nottingham and London. The sealift arrives just in time to hold, and now JC and Hannibal are running out of troops.

But how did they make so many troops with just a handful of cities! :eek: I was not expecting that.

Speaking of sealift, I hate that with a passion. Tech to flight, build four airports and now four new units per turn land on the new world. Homeland fully railroaded, of course! I turn the tide, despite still being a unit behind in tech (my tanks and art vs. JC's Mech inf). Kill off Hannibal in 1961, and take Antium and Rome (where his wonders are ... milk, milk), then make peace.

JC has five casings, three thrusters, and one other big part, but with only four small cities left, won't get a ship built.

Stalin has started building parts, and even Cyrus makes a few. My goal: resarch all techs, build all wonders, capture Moscow (has four) late as the coup de grace to trigger the dom win. I am first to modern armour. Finally military tech superiority! :goodjob:

I build everything that can be built for wonders or projects. Spam happiness and health for max pop growth. Researched every tech (first time ever) and future tech about 4 rounds.

Stalin built UN, so I hold meaningless votes as the Sec Gen.

Stalin has a DP with Cyrus. Cyrus has a DP with JC. About 2020 or so, I declare on Stalin. Cyrus declares on me, breaking his DP with JC. Drive for Moscow is a bloodbath, as modern warfare always is at first. My first wave gets beat up by artillery, then my second wave kills off all of his attackers. Repeat until he is out of troops. Then move in for the kill. Stalin sneaks a few transports to my homeland, but a healthy treasury and USuff allows me to buy modern troops from longbows and chariots and repel. My battleships arrive and kill off the transports, so he won't be back.

Took Moscow, and had time to take St. Pete, Vladivostok, Novgorod, and one Persian city before popping the dom land limit in 2037.

Firaxis score: 10,435. Base score: 9019. Didn't make the 10,000 base I was hoping for. Really wanted to see if the base could exceed the Firaxis score (maybe not mathematically possible?) :lol:

With any luck, that will do for the cow, and I can salvage something useful from this disaster of a game (competition-wise, that is ... the game was fun regardless ;) )

dV

Someone better win a diplo pre-1680AD or I'm gonna be very ticked at myself.
My speed ranking is gonna suck for this game lol


Someone has listened to your prayers. :lol:

As everyone else, when I saw the Noble difficult level, I thought this would be a walk in the park. I even promised to pursue a personal challenge to add a real-life twist – build Hagia Sophia in Istanbul, which seemed fit as I was leaving for a trip which started in that beautiful city, a few days after the game started. But the real challenge would be to complete the game, as I’d be away for almost all the period – and yes, I’m a slow player. :blush: Fortunately I made it, which you should have noticed if you read the post title.;) Not sure if it is just me, but diplo wins always look like the fastest I can get in real time. Maybe I’m wrong and should learn from the fast conquerors out there.

Back to the game, I might be short-sighted, but I didn’t see a reason to move. Settled in place, and started with a worker followed by 2 workboats. I also don't understand what would I lose by ignoring those fish for a while. I researched mining/fishing/BW/masonry (for the stone - GW), hunting (furs), AH. With 2 mined hills and 2 fish, I had a decent start. I could afford to run a couple of scientist early, and as the pop cap grew, I cottaged the FP’s.

I settled city #2 by horses and furs. However, I was blinded by the long term dotmapping and had to wait for a border expansion to connect the horses. In the meantime, barbs started to spawn (~1800BC) and did a lot of pillaging. I was stubborn and researched archery later than I should. It delayed me getting my stony ancient wonders, but I eventually I succeeded: SH 1680BC, GW 550BC, Pyramids 50AD (in city #2).

By 500AD I had 5 established cities in my part of the continent. GP-wise, I had a GS in 875BC (Academy) and a GE in 500AD (GLib). I was running Repr/slavery and Istanbul was size 12 and teching like crazy.

From then on, I got Optics in 640AD and Astro in 960AD. By 1000AD I had contacted and was trading resources and techs with everyone. MM was also doing fine and we traded a lot of techs. BTW, I disagree with the player complaining about MM and his rich land. I could not think of a better neighbor to share the continent in a map like this, especially at this difficulty level.

I reached Liberalism in 1200AD, taking SciMeth as a freebie, on my way to Mass Media/UN. That was a remarkable year, as I had just got Engineering from trade, and was able to complete my side quest, building Hagia Sophia in Istanbul, using a GE. Surprisingly enough, it turned out being somewhat useful, as I was running serfdom for a while and was clearing up a lot of jungle. I also did not research Steam Power, so it was never obsolete.
http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/88295/Civ4ScreenShot0014.JPG

But I needed some more land, so I stockpiled troops (10 catapults and a couple of macemen and trebs) to take care of this problem. With my heart broken :mischief: , I turned to my long-time buddy MM and declared war in 1300AD. A rather short war, I got 3 cities and peace was reached in 1410AD. Time to heal troops, but interestingly enough, the next turn we had open borders, and we were even trading resources.

This time I did not beeline 100% to Mass Media. In fact, I went for Chemistry, Biology and Steel, after Physics and before Electricity. I think I was a little afraid of going to war with outdated troops, so I took the safe route. Maybe I should have done otherwise. Time will tell. :confused:

Overseas, Stalin had vassalized Lizzie, being 2nd in pop. The rest of the guys were in a Buddhist alliance, and pleased (but not friendly) with me. Needless to say, I wanted to throw a big party when this religion reached one of my cities in 1490AD. It is possible that it was a missionary sent by one of my friends, I didn’t notice.

In 1505AD I declared again, this time bringing along Hannibal and Julius, just for the diplo bonus. This time I captured Timbuktu and another city. In 1550AD he was ready to capitulate. I knew that accepting it could hurt my diplo standings, but I was hoping that converting to Buddhism after shutting up research would do the trick, and it would surely end the game quicker (in real time), so I took his surrender.

I reached Mass Media in 1605AD. Unfortunately, no other GE was around. But I had saved the 4 forest tiles S of Istanbul for this special occasion. Workers were in place to chop and convert them to workshops. I also cash-buyed it, so it would be ready in 6 turns. But in a :hammer2: dumb move, I decided to change civics (away from free religion then Buddhism) after rushbuying it but in the same turn. It obviously got ready only after the 2 turns of anarchy. Anyway, the votes were exactly as expected and I got the win in 1680AD.

Now onto GOTM18. WOTM09 can wait. :)

well, at least I know my stupidity didn't cost me a fastest finish medal...but it appears it cost me a #2 spot :(

Ah well...I think I'll be trying for fastest diplo this next WOTM as well, so watch out for me ;)

Really messed up my game. I was doing ok to start with; keeping up techwise with Mansa, finally vassalised him about 800ad (he was being stuborn and didn't vassalise until he was down to two cities).

At that point I was comfortably ahead of the world in score, pop, tech etc and spent the next thousand years mucking about teching ahead, building wonders for the sake of it and didn't get round to trying to win till abut 1800.

By that time even though I was well ahead tech wise (tanks vs cavalry) it just became a slugfest and I kind of lost interest. I also got dogpiled a bit (at one point I was at war with hannibal, cyrus and stalin) which slowed things down further.

Retired three hours before submission deadline; 1858, pathetic score :( .

edit: I learned something useful from the game: keep your eyes on the ball :lol: .

Continents are my favourite map and I was hoping to make a reasonable showing, but in the end am happy simply to post a victory. I settled on the coast between the 2 fish. My second city was placed N to grab the horses and stone:- this worked well as a production city after its FP had been farmed, but it did limit the development of my third city to the NE (wine – fur – horses). I chopped Stonehenge in my capital, built barracks – library and started to produce chariots to beat off the barbarians. The stone helped produce both GW and Pyramids in the second city, but at the expense of any Oracle slingshot attempt. I’m not sure how useful the Wall was, as my chariots were making short work of barbs that did appear and (like several others) I only found out it stopped at the shoreline when my first fishing boat was pillaged. I had by then decided (wrongly in hindsight) to go IW (in the absence of Copper) and Currency (in the absence of goods for trade) before Alphabet. I met MM quite early but saw no sign of any cities in my exploration S as far as the equatorial hills beyond the sugar. This was where I stopped:- my BIG mistake of the game, as I had 3 experienced chariots that could have seriously hindered (or conceivably taken out) the Malinese empire in its infancy. I established new S cities (to access sugar, gems, marble, rice) and a final N city (crabs, iron, corn) and I rather forgot about my Southern neighbour. With Alphabet I approached MM, who seemed a tad advanced along the Tech tree:- the only trade I ever managed with him was Literature (for sailing and meditation I think):- another mistake as he then pipped me for the GLib. I brushed this off as a minor inconvenience, as MM would of course soon fall under the overwhelming power of my military now that I was researching Construction.
Around this time (175AD) MM adopted Vassalage .... hmmmm ! His puny archers immediately turned into snarling longbowmen and he also demanded tribute:- I refused but began to realise that things were not quite going to plan. A further look at the Malinese tech progress and other statistics, plus a quick explore S, revealed just how far off-plan things stood. I was in serious danger of being blown away on a Noble Continents map! The limitations of my economic position also came into focus:- few resources and hardly any surplus for trade, in combination with a single trading partner who might possibly become my sworn enemy. I decided to combine a research path to Astronomy with war:- I switched from Representation to Police State, started to churn out Cats / Swords / HA then, much too late, declared war on MM.
First Malinese war (1360-1490) Captured a couple of outlying cities. Brief pause for recovery.
Second Malinese war (1550-1680) Captured 2 more cities. Stopped sharply at the sight of Malinese Grenadiers marching North. Ceded a city for peace and headed homeward to think again (research Gunpowder asap!). By this point I had circumnavigated and, with Astronomy, established good trade / research links with the other Civs. I entered a building phase before my next attempt at MM.
Third Malinese War (1846-1886). My Gren/Rifle/Treb/Knight army vs Malinese Infantry and Cavalry. I push deep into his heartlands but his destroyers cause havoc with my water resources. Another pause before a final push (1910-1955) to remove the Malinese presence from the world. I had a couple of close shaves with powerful raiding parties being landed behind my lines, but finally stood master of the Continent. By this point I was tired of fighting (and wary of winning another prize for slowest conquest!) and my Diplo options disappeared with MM (who was hated by everyone). I defaulted to Space Race with a little adventurism on the other continent. I captured most of Stalin lands before a very late (2011) lift-off for 10148 points.

I must comment most favourably on this WOTM: it's the first time ever on difficulty level below Emperor that I lost in tech race 1-on-1 to AI without chances (at least until the cities on the other continent kicked in). Another continent being united under Buddhist Holy Church also fueled the fires, with Hannibal being to rifles faster than me! However, I played lazily and was always friends with Musa (this has costed me many turns, as I recon now), winning by domination taking over all nations of continent #2 (starting with knights and janissaries - which disappointed me, frankly) in 1685 (delayed 1 turn to pop-rush Taj and Angkor). Nothing special in the end, but lots on unexpected challenge, thanx!

I defaulted to Space Race with a little adventurism on the other continent. I captured most of Stalin lands before a very late (2011) lift-off for 10148 points. @ Half Nelson: Is that 10,148 the Firaxis score? Or did you pillage my dairy and steal my cow (if that is your base score)? :lol: I can identify with your slow campaign to take out MM ... was Stalin your only target on the other continent?

Speaking of prizes for slowest victory (really lowest scoring victory IIRC, but correlates well with date I would think for the military ones), we'll have to see if my very late dom chasing the cow bought me another "lamest winning general" award (the dom shield) :lol:

dV

I probably gained the lowest scoring Diplo game....I mean, I only had 64 pop points by the end of the game lol. Darn Mansa, running a cottage economy instead of a ton of farms!

I didn't submit this game - it was going to take too long (couldve submitted a retired game I guess but I'm still undecided on whether I agree with retired games so it seemed a bit hypocritical to do so).

I basically decided at the start that I was going to go conquest, but running a high science economy until I had astronomy. I made the mistake of bui