View Full Version : MOO1: Internal security?


Wisq
Apr 28, 2007, 06:51 PM
I understand the AI doesn't do a great job of spying below 'hard' difficulty.
But they do actually try it out on 'hard' and 'impossible', and you very rarely get messages regarding stolen technology.

How much of an impact does AI espionage/sabotage really have in the end? Does it pay to keep internal security high year-to-year, and/or engage in occasional max-security "purges" now and then? Does this change when facing the Darloks?

Personally, I've been keeping security as low as I can get away with, unless I'm getting successful sabotage attempts against me. At that point, I raise it until they stop.

From what I've seen here, the OSGs don't mention using internal security very much. Hence, I have to assume either the pros don't consider it worth spending anything on it, or else there's a very well-established doctrine for its use, such that nobody ever mentions it. :D

Zed-F
Apr 28, 2007, 08:25 PM
I used to use internal security when I was new to the game. However, it's been a long time since I considered it anything other than a waste of money. The occasional purge is ok if you really feel like you're getting hit hard with spies, but it's not something you should leave on on a regular basis. Increasing your own computer tech level, by research or by stealing other peoples computer tech (via your own spies or via pointy stick) is a much more cost-effective way of combatting enemy spying.

vmxa
Apr 28, 2007, 09:22 PM
I don't use it, better to just keep them busy with combat. In a larger map with Psilons in the game, the AI does not need to steal from me anyway.

jmas
Sep 22, 2007, 04:01 PM
Thank you Wisq for asking and Zed-F and vmxa for answering. I do feel moved to ask, what about the "rebellion factor"? Years ago when my roommates and I were playing MOO, we regularly had rebellions, until we started using internal security. I suppose that is only circumstantial evidence of AI spying and sabotage, but rebellions were sometimes a real pain, so the "cure" seemed worth it. Do you find rebellions a problem when not allocating money to security? Also, is it possible for the AI players to steal your tech without you being notified? I think it was on Sirian's page that I read that the human player's spies could successfully steal tech without getting caught, and wondered if that is also possible for the AI players.

If someone else has knowledge or an opinion on this, please weigh in.

vmxa
Sep 22, 2007, 06:01 PM
Rebellion's can be prevented by spies, if you have the investment and best computers. I cannot remember about tech stealing, I will look in my guide tomorrow if it is not answered.

jmas
Sep 22, 2007, 06:20 PM
Rebellion's can be prevented by spies, if you have the investment and best computers. I cannot remember about tech stealing, I will look in my guide tomorrow if it is not answered.

Okay, thank you. One question: what do you mean by "investment"?

vmxa
Sep 22, 2007, 09:57 PM
How much you put into the antispy. 1% or 4% or what ever you go with. If it is very low, then the AI chances of success increase. If they have better computers than you have, they tend to do better in the rolls.

Zygot
Sep 29, 2008, 01:47 PM
Hi!

Replying to jmas: yes it's possible that other races steal tech from you without being notified. In the same way, it's possible for you to steal without any complain sometimes.
I think internal security is not so worthless. Rebellions on large planets are a nuisance,
and, since I often play the Psilons, I get tech advantage which I want to defend.
Bye!

Emanuele

Horizon
Oct 04, 2008, 08:55 AM
Often in my games i had races becoming angry with me without me being able to really see the obvious reason (other than their leader had some unstable personnality of course).

Could it be that the AI is able to actually frame someone else when it steals a like you can do sometime ?

kjnoren
Oct 04, 2008, 09:06 AM
Often in my games i had races becoming angry with me without me being able to really see the obvious reason (other than their leader had some unstable personnality of course).

Could it be that the AI is able to actually frame someone else when it steals a like you can do sometime ?

Sometimes, you get a war declaration due to spying, and a note at the end that you were framed.

Sudden dips in relations are more commonly due to you reaching a size/pop threshold. Eg, when I played Imperia 11 all the other races suddenly complained in 2406 about me, and relations lowered quite a bit everywhere. This was a few years after learning Atmospheric Terraforming, when all the previously hostile planets were booming their populations.

Horizon
Oct 04, 2008, 01:05 PM
Ah yes i see, thanks seems like a long time i have not been the target of spying (as in most of my impossible games i am so behind usually in teching), as i didn't remember the you are framed message.

For the other relation hit related to the size,
That's a bit similar to the "empire of doom" rule in most other 4X in which once you are that big, all the AI suddenly begin to hate you (as you are near to win the game at this size).

Or with the "let's all bully the human" rule, always in most 4X games, in which if you are far smaller and less powerfull than the AI, they will all begin to order you around insane amount of tributes and will attack if you dare to refuse even once.

MXB
Dec 26, 2008, 10:17 AM
It depends. Sometimes you must have it and have it high but usually I leave it at the minimum level (1 click above nothing) which costs practically nothing (it's a % of your GDP remember) especially at the start when it actually rounds to 0.
Spy success without being caught is real for sure as is the framing. All in all I always thought it was quite cool how it was implemented.

Andii
Oct 09, 2009, 06:27 PM
Personally, I've been keeping security as low as I can get away with, unless I'm getting successful sabotage attempts against me. At that point, I raise it until they stop.

Thats what I do, except that when I meet races I always give them 1 click of espionage spending and keep spies on HIDE. If I go to war with them and they are the ones I want to attack, I increase spending until it is 2/y or 3/y as long as the bar is not getting past halfway (too expensive), and order SABOTAGE so I can crack their bases and take thier planets.

if I am at war with someone I am not attacking, I always do ESPIONAGE and get spending generally in the same way.

Once I meet my first enemy race, I always increase my internal security to 1-click above nothing and usually don't increase it until I have met all 5 races or I start getting successful spy attempts against me.