While the general Hall of Fame is an ongoing competition, we like to run time-definite competitions between updates that we call Gauntlets. Standard Hall of Fame rules (*) still apply, but any games meeting the settings will be counted towards the Gauntlet.

(*) Please read the >> HOF rules << (http://hof.civfanatics.net/civ4/rules.php) BEFORE playing!


Settings:

Victory Condition: Domination (though all victory conditions must be enabled)
Difficulty: Noble
Starting Era: Ancient
Map Size: Standard
Map Type: Oasis
Speed: Normal
Civ: Montezuma
Opponents: Any
Version: 1.61.011 or 2.08.004
Date: 10th to 24th May 2007
The earliest finish date wins, with score as a tiebreaker.

oooh...I've never played Oasis maps, and I've never won as Monty...this will fill in a couple slots for me :)

Excellent, I'll give this a go. I've never played an oasis map before either, I'm guessing not many forests or jungles. I can normally win on Noble with domination, probably around 1970 though so I won't get in any leaderboards. I'm also thinking there won't be any coast on an oasis map and is the map the same size as the continents standard size map? That sounds like a lot of land in that case.

I think it is more like the Great Plains standard sized map...so yeah, lots of land to cover.

I've never played great plains either (continents or fractal for me). So is it still like 64% land area to win? I'm thinking my mighty catapults and axemen will be able to win anyway, and jaguars will be largely a waste of time with their 5 strength.

its still about 64% land area...but there's a heck of a lot more land area to cover because there are no oceans to take tiles away from the domination limit.

As I thought. Sounds interesting. I'll start as soon as I sober up tomorrow morning! Code of laws for confucianism and sacrificial altars sounds like the way to go.

Just about everything in this G-Minor represents a gap in my Quattromaster table (I need Montezuma, Noble, AND Oasis) so I'm pretty happy that I won't have to diverge from that to give this a go.

oasis map eh, anyone can give a detail description of what that map is like?

Strip of desert through the middle of the map, grasslands up the top and down the bottom

oasis map eh, anyone can give a detail description of what that map is like?

this page (http://www.civfanatics.com/civ4/reference/map_scripts_guide.php#oasis) gives information about most of the map types in the game, and what to expect from them.

when first playing one of the "resources and exact layout varies, but basic setup remains the same" maptypes, like oasis and great plains, i do research before actually playing. it involves ummm cheating *giggle*. start a game without LMA (and thus not eligible for HoF) that you do not intend to actually play. random leaders to save time, but use the map size you'll play with. then ctrl-w on your first turn, and look around the map to get a feel for it. you can go out of WB and regen and then back into WB to look around again as desired.

your actual game will not look just like that, but it should give you a sense of whether it's a real dry map, whether you can count on lots of rivers to give you network connections or whether your workers will be spending ages roading to meet your future pals, that sort of thing. on oasis, certain resources can appear only in certain sections of the map.

i find that it doesn't ruin the suspense of revealing the particular map i get when i do play, but knowing what to expect helps me start out perhaps with better strategy than i might if i was going in blind. some might prefer to be completely surprised and learn 100% by doing and that's cool too, to each his or her own. just a thought.

caution: sometimes this will give you an absolutely beautiful starting location that you wish was one you could actually play. this poster is NOT responsible for any frustration you feel if this occurs, since it is entirely the fault of the RNG. you have been warned.

oasis map eh, anyone can give a detail description of what that map is like?

Start a new game with the Oasis map and select Future start. The whole map is revealed for your examination.

Start a new game with the Oasis map and select Future start. The whole map is revealed for your examination.

omg duh or that! no wonder you're a QM and i'm not! hahaha thanks that's easier than the way i do it *giggle*.

Excellent. There is a Monty spot free in my QM list.

hm...there's so much stinking land to cover...I've taken out two AI and vassalized two others, and I'm still at 36% land. Now i've got to try to recover my economy enough to take out at least one of the remaining civs, and then spam settlers into any open area.

Do the fast domination moguls recommend running aggressively from the beginning, or running a superfast tech pace for awhile then take out everyone around the same time with Maces/Trebs? Additionally, are shrines worthwhile for the extra gold, and is the Pyramids a good idea for early access to Police State?

Isn't one of the 'tricks' to kill off all but 1 AI while stockpiling settlers and then build a bunch of cities all on the same turn? So, no barbs and have map finder look for stone then build 1) worker 2) stonehenge 3) barracks 4) Jags and settlers. Tech path: masonry, mining, BW, IW. I might build another scout first to hunt for huts.

Interesting map for me, my first Oasis game, I'm not trying for a super quick win or anything, just playing it as I see it.

1AD now, Genghis was killed off before he got his settler out from his capital, now my Jags and Axes are going after Cyrus' iron city and I'll probably try and take 3 of his border cities quickly and then try for peace while getting code of laws together. Construction is due in about 10 turns and I have elphants hooked up already. I'm having a half baked attempt at going for the pyramids stone is next to be hooked up.

Happiness resources seeem very scarce though but I have 2 good production cities up and running. I got stonehenge which should help for land grab at the start too. Fingers and toes crossed!

Isn't one of the 'tricks' to kill off all but 1 AI while stockpiling settlers and then build a bunch of cities all on the same turn? So, no barbs and have map finder look for stone then build 1) worker 2) stonehenge 3) barracks 4) Jags and settlers. Tech path: masonry, mining, BW, IW. I might build another scout first to hunt for huts.
Eww.

I guess that would be the way to do it though. Current #1 for Standard Noble Domination is 250 BC, and it looks like that was the plan. Doesn't all your military get disbanded by the enormous upkeep though?

Doesn't all your military get disbanded by the enormous upkeep though?

That's the whole point of doing it that way - rather than having to pay for upkeep on all of those cities while continuing to conquer, you only pay for them on the last turn (or few turns if you're waiting for culture to pop).

Eww.

I guess that would be the way to do it though. Current #1 for Standard Noble Domination is 250 BC, and it looks like that was the plan. Doesn't all your military get disbanded by the enormous upkeep though?

I think it helps if you are rome. Since Jaguar are a bit weaker, I think the finish date would be a little later than this.

i didnt start out with copper and the UU sucks. One axeman will own 10 of those things. But i always finish my games and i won at 1576 :((

1st one submitted. lol

I think it helps if you are rome. Since Jaguar are a bit weaker, I think the finish date would be a little later than this.

The big difference is not Rome. It's Normal speed vs marathon. I'm sure the 250 BC game was marathon.

@playshogi: why Masonry?

The big difference is the fact that this map is oasis.

The big difference is the fact that this map is oasis.

Yes, Oasis is much larger than Great Plains. It also starts you in the south and the south has no horses. So, it's tough to cross this map with Jags or Axemen, etc.

You're allowed to position yourself in the north by assigning yourself teamnumber 2 (or 4 or 6) right?

You're allowed to position yourself in the north by assigning yourself teamnumber 2 (or 4 or 6) right?
That's allowable.

You're allowed to position yourself in the north by assigning yourself teamnumber 2 (or 4 or 6) right?

Yea, I was saving that trick in case horses are the only way to go. I'm thinking horse units will make for faster finish dates than Jags. I don't really want to waste time on those water squares though.

Well I'm not going to beat 1575 finish, that's for sure. I've only wiped out 2 and a half rivals by 1510, well on course to finish it though. I didn't hand pick my opponents (just random ones) which would have been a good idea, taking out Tokugawa with his protective longbows in hill cities is a bit painful. I'm just taking it slowly for my first ever Oasis map. I still think I'll get my best domination time this game though since I've been going for it from 4000BC and I normally play continents or fractal so I don't need to do an overseas invasion. I've only won 4 domination games before though.

I noticed you are allowed to have cylindrical world wrap on... presumably that would make it harder though since you don't have a corner to defend easier.

You're allowed to position yourself in the north by assigning yourself teamnumber 2 (or 4 or 6) right?How do you get it to do that? Mine keeps changing it back to team1 when I launch.

How do you get it to do that? Mine keeps changing it back to team1 when I launch.

you're supposed to try for domination, denniz, not a spaceship launch :crazyeye:!

but yeah, i can't get it to work either. i set myself to 2, and i change the AI that was going to be team 2 to team 1 instead, but it puts me in the south every time.

you're supposed to try for domination, denniz, not a spaceship launch :crazyeye:!Ah, but I am trying the more difficult spaceship/domination combination win. :mischief:

We can have worldwrap on? That would be very handy for this game...it'd allow me to attack on two different fronts.

I think I'll finish this game I'm working on just to finish it...it won't be winning any awards though...it depends on whether or not I can get the RNG to stop allowing Hannibal's rifles to kill off my highly promoted grenadiers!!!

My next game I'll attempt to put myself in the north, I'll turn on worldwrap, and I'll declare war on every civ I meet with a warrior, and park him right outside their capital...that kept the Indians in check in this game, perhaps it'll allow me to take the AIs out at will.

We can have worldwrap on?

Yes, it was decided to allow a few additional map settings that weren't allowed previously, as stated in the HoF Rules (http://hof.civfanatics.net/civ4/rules.php).

I'm giving this Gaulet one try. It's hard to get good dates for the Major or Minor, it's impossible for me get good dates for both. :mischief: This gaulet is a good excuse to play with Warlords. I got it just last week, I have to play one game. Only one game and then I get back to the major. Warlords is new for me but Noble is easy.

Jags are definately fun to play with. But I keep expanding too qiuckly and end up having units disbanded as I run out of money...lol.

This is a good gauntlet because at least I can be pretty sure of getting a victory. The Oasis map is interesting though.

Anyone try building barracks and giving your Jags Woodsman II for mobility? Do some AI build fewer archers than others? I brought 5 Jags across the map to face Brennus and was surprised by 5 archers and a warrior in the city. I was expecting only 2. Maybe, in 1.61 it would have been just 2, but not in Warlords.

Still slowly working my way to a slow win, I reckon it'll be around 1800AD for my game. Japan has been destroyed next up is either Brennus or Huayna Capac. Capac has just declared war on my friend Frederick and is nearest and largest (but not near to my Japan destroying stack of catapults and elephants) so he's probably next. 1610AD at the moment, I'll be first to Liberalism next turn, my research is starting to creep up again, it's been at 30% most of the game so far, but I've just traded for banking so soon I'll be in the money. A good move was capturing the pyramids from Cyrus to run police state when monarchy just isn't good enough to combat war weariness.

Anyone try building barracks and giving your Jags Woodsman II for mobility? Do some AI build fewer archers than others? I brought 5 Jags across the map to face Brennus and was surprised by 5 archers and a warrior in the city. I was expecting only 2. Maybe, in 1.61 it would have been just 2, but not in Warlords.

Just think if it was one axeman, it would have killed your entire force. Jags sucks. :mad:

does this happen to anyone, I am not getting bronze, horse or iron anywhere close to my starting place.

Me. I am at 1900 AD and STILL have no horses or iron. Catapults and Jaguars are still out on the field. Amazing what you can do with superior numbers versus superior units.

does this happen to anyone, I am not getting bronze, horse or iron anywhere close to my starting place.

There will never be horses in the south. Strategic resources like Iron are in the desert in the middle. Copper should be everywhere. But who cares? Jags don't need those resources.

Well, I executed the "standard" fast domination plan. Tech only to IronW. Conquer just enough AI's to have the land to win. Crank out settlers, plant them all in 1 turn and go negative cash flow and wait for border to pop. Almost everything went smoothly. I had just a couple extra population points and only 1 land tile extra. So why then did it take me until 1000 AD to finish?

I'm no stranger to this style of play. My Diety Domintion HOF entries were the same strategy, just on a smaller scale. So either this map / speed are just that hard, or I did something fundamentally wrong...like maybe Jags are too slow.

How do you guys win these games so quickly? There is so much land on this map. I am at 1900 AD and only about half way to the domination percentages. The Koreans have just offered to become my vassals. Is there any point in having them as vassals?

I accepted the Mongols as vassals and then gifted them 5 settlers so that they would help me toward the domination limit without me having to pay for the cities...we get credit for half a vassals' land and pop.

You don't need bronze or iron for jaguars. Just spam them from a barracks with CR1 until you get a win agains an archer, hide them in the forest with a warrior and wait for it to heal, you get CR2 jags then. Once you take the nearest capital move north to get horses conquering on the way.

This is a fun challenge, still haven't won yet but I am 1 turn away from cavalry and another 1 after that from grenadiers since I lightbulbed chemistry, plus I traded for replaceable parts so only a few turns away from rifles after that. I have so many cities and used universal suffrage (from capturing pyramids) to buy banks in all my commerce cities so I am making a profit at 60% research now, shouldn't be long now but still very slow compared to other people I expect.

Are there any downsides to accepting a vassal? I have never had a vassal before.

You pay extra maintenance if you have a vassal, but get +1 happiness in your cities ("we influence other civs!"). However, you do get unhappiness from "we yearn to rejoin our motherland". If you are ahead in tech, it is better to finish them off. I vassalized Cyrus in my game with 1 puny city surrounded by my land and kept turning down his offer for open borders so he couldn't escape, that's because he said I was a nasty little civilisation when he asked at first.

In my game, Korea love us, and have about 10 cities so are a reasonable force. It would take ages to conquer them while I am busy dealing with Genghis, Hannibal, and Shaka and while Mansa is teching away like Albert Einstein in the background. Taking Korea as a vassal seemed like a reasonably good idea. It doesn't seem to have harmed our economy too much so far.

My economy was OK at 30% for most of the game, then I switched to universal suffrage thanks to captured pyramids and did the 0% science, rush buy markets, grocers and banks thing so now I'm making 100 gpt at 60% science rate. It's easy to keep a tech lead at Noble level I find. I got liberalism first in 1620 or so! Very late for me. There's lots of cottageable land near the rivers and you can have a great GP farm there too.

I had a big setback when one of my big Jaguar stacks just failed to take a city. This meant another 50 years or so to rebuild the stack, meanwhile the enemy city went from archers to longbows........

I tried an interesting combination to offset the weakness of the Jaguar. I had ivory so I researched construction and added War Elephants and a few catapults to the mix. Ultimately, getting macemen asap seems the best policy.

I also found that scouting your first opponent(s) is important. Having axemen show up or trying to take a hill top city full of archers before you get a couple promotions can ruin your initial offensive.

i just dont like normal speed. My closest rival was louis, so with about 6 jags, and 6 axes i took him out. by the time i moved to him. I had cats. Than i moved on after him and i had maces. After i killed my next rival i had grenadier.

These guy vassal really quickly. Once i vassal someone i give them all my tech and any nice resources like iron, copper, etc. Than they help me kill the next one. All you really have to do is take a major city and they give up quickly.

if u wanna look at my game its here. http://hof.civfanatics.net/civ4/game_info.php?show=general&entryID=7267

Sounds like Warlords is required to win this one. I don't own that.

Ah, get with the times man. heh

Ah, get with the times man. heh

Yea, yea, very true, just fork over a few bucks. However, I'm actually looking for an excuse to stop this addiction. We'll see how this works out. I'm gonna try.

How do the domination percentages work? I keep getting messages that I am about to reach the target and then the targets keep increasing. Isn't the target supposed to be 75%? If so, why do I get alerts at 44.9% saying I have almost reached the required 45%?

It is 1940 AD and I am on 45% and 48%. I might win slowest domination at this rate - assuming Mansa doesn't launch his space ship first. Actually, Mansa is my vassal, Can he still launch a space ship as my vassal?

Its goes by the size of the map, i know stardard is 64% and im pretty sure huge is 56%. I dont know the rest.

But why does the required percentage keep changing during the game?

Does it depend upon how many civs are left? My game it's still 64%. I'm working my way up there, 51% odd at the moment and the Aztec capital is about to fall. I'll have to revise my win date to 1850 ish though I reckon. The Aztecs got rifles just as I parked my huge stack of Cavalry and elephants next to one of his border cities, and then he vassalized to Brennus. I have so many cities and nationhood so am checking them all at the end of every turn for drafting etc. It's taking a long time to get this game finished.

But why does the required percentage keep changing during the game?

I'm not positive, but I believe the required percentage is also based off the # of civs in the game. This number continues to change as you destroy civs. In other words, totally destroying a civ increases the % amount required for a domination victory.

For you dom experts out there, is that correct?

Umm, I never seen it change before.

Back to my game methinks, should only be an hour or two to finish I reckon.

I'm not positive, but I believe the required percentage is also based off the # of civs in the game. This number continues to change as you destroy civs. In other words, totally destroying a civ increases the % amount required for a domination victory.

For you dom experts out there, is that correct?

The population % changes and I'm not sure of the formula.
The land % is based on the # of opponents you start with, not the map size, so destroying them doesn't change it. I played max opponents and only needed to get 56% land instead of 64% :D

I find that by the time you have the required land, you have no problem hitting the population %, so just ignore it.

hm...8% less land is a good deal of land I wouldn't need to conquer. In my current game, I'm at 48%...if I only needed 56% then all I'd need to do is vassalize Hannibal and I'd have it. Instead, I'm gonna have to vassalize Hannibal and then spam settlers, hoping that Mansa doesn't sneak a bunch of them in while I'm distracted.

What's the maximum # of civs you can use on a standard map?

edit: Found out, you can have up to 10 opponents on a standard size map...since I'm planning on conquering people, I think that may actually make it easier anyway...since that makes the AI compete with each other while I wipe them out :D

Can your vassal win a Space Race from under your feet? Mansa is my vassal but he is also busy building his SS Casings.

I've been told they can...however, you can tell your vassal what to research...so you can make him research stuff that won't help him with his spaceship.

to do that, just go to let's discuss something else, then say we'd like you to research...then tell him what you want him to go for! :)

Hmm, I'd better just hurry up and knock over Genghis to try and get this land percentage up. Before long, Mansa will run out of non-space things to research. If I need to stop him somehow, can I declare war on my own vassal?

Actually, I don't understand how he became my vassal. He has the most advanced technologies and the biggest army. He's really the most powerful civilisation, and the one in the best position to win as he could theoretically launch his spaceship within 50 turns if he really tried. I thought only puny civs could become vassals?

Can your vassal win a Space Race from under your feet? Mansa is my vassal but he is also busy building his SS Casings.

We did a SG over at DM (http://deviantminds.us/forum/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=84) that had us locked as vassals to Roosevelt the whole game and we won by space shipping, so yes vassals can win the game this way.

Its part of why I think vassals doesn't work properly. It should be a sort of involuntary (on the part of the vassal) permanent alliance.

I got drunk and bored when it was obvious I was going to win so just built culture and units with no moving of armies. So, 1970 win, could have been much earlier if I was bothered. Nice game though. I'll submit now.

I finished my first war against Napoleon. I haven't killed him, but I took Paris full of wonders including Spiral Miranet and Pyramids. :) I'll have horses soon. No one has education, I think I'll try to get Military tradition as free tech. I'm slow. Napoleon is very weak and another AI is dead, thanks to the barbs. I'm playing with Raging Barbs. It was fun to see the AI dealing with storms of Axmen/Swordmen and my cities protected with the Great Wall. :mischief:

In my game, Shaka Zulu has all the wonders. Is this normal? I thought he was some sort of aggressive warmonger, not a builder.

wrong tread - post redislocated

I finished one game with these settings for the domination win in 1725. It's probably hundreds of years after the best time but I have been taking a break from Civ.

What I did was the MC slingshot for the GE to rush the Pyramids. After that I ran a hybrid CE/SE economy. My first target was to the north for horses then directly to the east for ivory. I teched up to feudalism early to enable vassalage. All but one of AI capitualated. Toward the end I used Universal Sufferage to rush buy settlers to fill in the gaps.

My late game army was made up of mostly calvary and cannons. I probably would have been ok with just the calvary because the AI just had longbows for most of the game. A few of them did have a lot of cultural defense though.

1964 AD and I am still only at 50% population and land. There is so much land in this map that this is taking ages.

I agree, like I said I got bored and just maxed culture until I won when it was obvious I was going to. Still no rivals for slowest win yet though!

I had so many workers I used them as fogbusters!

I've just started the WOTM9 game, much more interesting.

I think I could rival your 1970 win. I'm only 6 turns away and no real chance of finding 14% of land in 6 turns - although I still have to actually win . . . and make sure my game is accepted.

I think this map is made for conquest rather than domination. It was interesting up to the point when it was obvious I was going to win (about 1820 ish), then I lost interest and was very very drunk indeed. I knew I wasn't going to beat the 1575 win (wow, by the way), with my first attempt at an Oasis map, but I think Noble is easy anyway, struggling a bit on Prince. The WOTM9 is looking like another win though, that's Prince too, with raging barbs (I built the Great Wall and popped an engineer for the Pyramids so I think it is in the bag).

EDIT: I lost interest as soon as I hit the population limit and was warned about the domination limit. I just built the best units I could every time it asked what I wanted to build and didn't micro manage at all, it was doing my head in. It was a bit scary seeing artillery around and hitting enter all the time, but I got the win, 1970 as you say. It could easily have been 1850-1870 if I could have been bothered.

I just submitted a 1580AD. It could/should have been much better. I staked out what I thought was enough territory, planted my settlers only to discover I was short. I had to go back to war long after my tech advantage had expired. It took forever. I guess I will have to try again. :(

I had about 20% land in 1580. I have no idea how a win at that date could be possible.

I think I was at about 30% land in 1580. The best strategy for quick times seems to be eliminate everyone except one AI and then spam settlers... as mentioned before in this thread. I went for the old fashioned "watch the map turn olive" approach myself.

I had about 20% land in 1580. I have no idea how a win at that date could be possible.After couple more attempts I am beginning to wonder if know how either.

I think you need to start in the middle. Preferrably towards the center. I took one player out using Jags and a few Elephants and made inroads against another pretty early. Once I had maces I took out the player above me so that I had a little over half the map to myself. Sounds simple? Yeah, me neither. ;)

I think I was at about 30% land in 1580. The best strategy for quick times seems to be eliminate everyone except one AI and then spam settlers... as mentioned before in this thread. I went for the old fashioned "watch the map turn olive" approach myself.

I played with 10 opponents and I only wiped out 4 of them. I never touched the other 6. Then I settled the desert and won in 1030 AD. I'd recommend taking out 1 more AI because I cut it very close with only 1 extra land tile.

Denniz! did you finish both gauntlets? and the major was your first complete game in ages? wowsa! and oh yeah, grats :)

Well I just finished a 1500AD effort, which I'm pretty pleased at. Could have improved the time if I stopped the warring and actually started settling cities of my own earlier but as I was having too much fun ;) .

After settling the capital in the south, my next 8-9 cities came via 3 different AI and then I started settling the gaps while taking on 4 northern AI before I realised I would win quicker settling my own cities.

Roosevelt, Alexander, Victoria, Tokogawa, Isabella and Hannibal were destroyed (in that order) and Napolean ended up my vassal. Managed to run at over 50% science the entire game (probably due to cottaging everything in sight and whipping markets, grocers etc).

Denniz! did you finish both gauntlets? and the major was your first complete game in ages? wowsa! and oh yeah, grats :)Thanks. I already had a minor gauntlet from before. I just did it for fun and cause it was noble.

hm...my current game would be much better if I'd had a good RNG.

I took out Cyrus in 2100BC, but should have taken him out in 3200BC when I attacked Persepolis with 3 warriors when he had a single warrior defending. Unfortunately, I lost and ended up just barricading him until I had some jaguars.

I'm playing with 10 opponents as well, and just finished taking out the 5 AIs in the south, and starting to vassalize the AIs in the north. I plan to vassalize all but one, the most advanced, and then start settling the deserts. I didn't build my first settler until 1000AD...no need, since I was constantly at war with Cyrus/Hannibal/Vicky/Napoleon/Ragnar?Augustus until then. I built my settlers then to fill in some good city sites that I hadn't let the southern AIs get to before killing them off. Off the southern AIs, only Ragnar was able to build more than 3 cities, and Napoleon was the only other one ever able to have 3 cities at once.

Ragnar vassalized around 500AD, and I gifted him CS and Machinery immediately so I could have his zerks helping me take down Augustus...took 2 of his cities, razed one, and then he vassalized. Right now I'm trying to get Alex to vassalize to me, I've taken and razed 3 cities, kept 1, and Caesar has taken 1 of his former cities back from Alex.

I think it would definitely be easiest and fastest to attempt to take out all but a couple AI and then spam settlers...I just had bad RNG :( On the plus side, I was able to take out all the AI up until Caesar with Jags, and up to Ragnar without Cats.

Harbourboy, if you decide to try again, perhaps try it with 10 opponents...not only does it mean the AI have less land each to spread to, making them weaker individually, but it also lowers the domination limit to 56%, which is the main reason I went with 10 opponents.

... perhaps try it with 10 opponents...not only does it mean the AI have less land each to spread to, making them weaker individually, but it also lowers the domination limit to 56%, which is the main reason I went with 10 opponents.

Other than that, it's also nice to have more, and closer, free cities

It's 2008 AD and I am on 58% in population and land. This is very slow going. Each turn takes about 10 minutes at this stage. And I can confirm that the population requirement keeps changing. It used to be about 45% but keeps going up. It now claims to require 57% but an hour ago, the requirement was 54%. The land requirement has been steady at 64% for a long time now.

Harbourboy, you need to finish so I am not last on the leaderboard!

It takes about an hour just to play half a dozen turns. Only 42 turns left in the whole game so I'd better hurry up.

It's slow going with no oil though. All the oil is miles away deep in Zulu country. So no air force and no tanks. Just got mechanised infantry though. What do they run on if they don't need oil.

It's 2008 AD and I am on 58% in population and land. This is very slow going. Each turn takes about 10 minutes at this stage. And I can confirm that the population requirement keeps changing. It used to be about 45% but keeps going up. It now claims to require 57% but an hour ago, the requirement was 54%. The land requirement has been steady at 64% for a long time now.

If it is that late in the game I would just go for the time victory and use it for the quatromasters slot then play the gauntlet with a new game.

If it is that late in the game I would just go for the time victory and use it for the quatromasters slot then play the gauntlet with a new game.

You could go for Time and Domination on the same turn. Would that count for both QM slots? or just Time?

...and would it count for the gauntlet?

then play the gauntlet with a new game.

You're kidding, right? This so-called "minor" gauntlet has taken forever. No way am I going to do it again.

The last major gauntlet took less time even though I had 16 attempts, because cultural strategies seem to take far less time.

I'm mad. :mad: Some times I really hate my machine. :badcomp: I was playing this gaulet for fun, I cannot really compete on two gaulets at same time ! This gaulet is over for me because my computer crashed. It cannot handle my massive powerful army. :( I'm slow at domination, but I was teching faster than the AI, I got grenadiers, cavalry, cannons. I had a wonderful holly city and I was going to declare war against Gandhi to get his. I got a vassal, one AI wanted to be my vassal, it had 49% of my land, 10 cities.

oh anita that's terrible news! i've had games that were going well turn out not able to be used for HoF due to crashes too, i know the feeling and it's not a good one. they weren't even for gauntlets but i was still so disappointed, one i was so proud of cuz i was so unsure i'd be able to win. sometimes computers let us have a lot of fun, and sometimes they drive us completely crazy :badcomp: :(

i haven't tried this gauntlet, but my sense of oasis map is that 'standard' size on it is comparable to 'large' on a normal map. just because it's ALL land, no ocean at all, so it's really much much bigger than continents or pangaea. i know my computer fusses more on great plains than it does on continents, and oasis is more land than great plains even i think.

720 AD domination....

A lot of you seem to be enjoying Civ the way it was meant to be played. I'm jealous. Your game descriptions sound fun and I'm tempted to try that style. I recommend you all trying the fast domination. You will be glad you did.

I just had really fun game. After my first run I was able to set a target: Turn 150. That's very important to know so you can plant your settlers and give them time to pop borders. I was at 36.2% population and 55.2% land on turn 146. Both hit the limits of 37% and 56% on turn 147 (720 AD). If I do this one more time. I'd set my goal for turn 135.

Earlier I posted that population is never a concern, but I found myself working hard at it during the last 15 turns. Quickly trying to build a pasture before my workers all get disbanded. I knew my land was going to blow past 56%. I should play a few more turns and see, cus about 20 of my cities were about to make the 2nd border pop at 100 culture. Each city goes from 21 tiles to 37 tiles. Of course much of that is overlap or enemy territory.

My first try I only teched Bronze, IronW. This time I went for Alphabet, (trade for Bronze, etc), IW, Currency, Code of Laws and then stopped.

I only conquered 3 AI (instead of 4) this time, before focusing on settling the desert. I wish I could have stolen a few more workers. I think I only got 4 free. I didn't like wasting time building workers.

720 AD domination....

I only conquered 3 AI (instead of 4) this time, before focusing on settling the desert. I wish I could have stolen a few more workers. I think I only got 4 free. I didn't like wasting time building workers.

I can usually get macemen running around 400BC, at what date do you stop attacking and work on settlers?
And how do you produce enough? Slavery?
I have never used slavery, so I'm not sure how well it works.

Finally finished in 2026AD. What a mission. I hope the game is accepted this time. How it is humanly possible to win by 720AD is beyond me.

I can usually get macemen running around 400BC, at what date do you stop attacking and work on settlers?
And how do you produce enough? Slavery?
I have never used slavery, so I'm not sure how well it works.

Seems like teching all the way to macemen is a bit too long. And even if it weren't, macemen are too expensive to build...and don't move any faster.

I only build 1 barracks maybe 2. Most of my military comes from the capitol.

I stop attacking when I see copper/iron is hooked up ;)

I start settlers immediately on new cities as I conquer them. Unlike many people I can never seem to get slavery working in a way so it feels like it's helping instead of hurting my progress. That's a general statement about slavery in any of my games, not just this gauntlet. For this one, it really doesn't work for me. Most cities are size 1 (building settlers). My workers don't have time to improve food squares because they are chopping forests.

My first try I only teched Bronze, IronW. This time I went for Alphabet, (trade for Bronze, etc), IW, Currency, Code of Laws and then stopped.

So you went straight for ABC? Very clever. :) Im guessing you conquered them with horses? And one last question did you mapfind until you had a capital with gems or gold?

Finally finished in 2026AD. What a mission. I hope the game is accepted this time. How it is humanly possible to win by 720AD is beyond me.

You could probably just do a not stop jag rush ignoring city maintenance cost. Essentially, you only build a few cities besides the capital, tech up to jags and never stop building them except to build settlers and workers. The AI isn't designed to deal with that type of unrelenting onslaught. The designers put in the high maintenance cost to help work against this type of strategy. It just fails to stop it completely.

So you went straight for ABC? Very clever. :) Im guessing you conquered them with horses? And one last question did you mapfind until you had a capital with gems or gold?

I start in the south and only attack a couple of close neighbors, so no horses. I don't want to tech to horsebackriding anyway. Jags are fine. That way I don't have to find copper or iron and waste worker time hooking those up.

I did run mapfinder and picked a gem, gem, fur, deer start (since you start with hunting) Naturally I grabbed mining before the beeline to ABC.

ou could probably just do a not stop jag rush ignoring city maintenance cost. Essentially, you only build a few cities besides the capital, tech up to jags and never stop building them except to build settlers and workers. The AI isn't designed to deal with that type of unrelenting onslaught. The designers put in the high maintenance cost to help work against this type of strategy. It just fails to stop it completely.

But jaguars are hopeless against longbows and 80% culture barriers. All that happens is that you die and give the enemy a hundred promotions.

But jaguars are hopeless against longbows and 80% culture barriers. All that happens is that you die and give the enemy a hundred promotions.

The idea is to capture enough of their cities before they get longbows and lots of defense.

Well I'm even prouder of my (now non-last place! Thanks Harbourboy!) finish, didn't use mapfinder, random AIs, never played an Oasis map before or even looked at one, just read the map guide here on the forum. And Tokugawa was a pain to finish off with his protective longbows. And I got bored and just hit enter for the last 60 turns and watched artillery moping about when all I had was cannons and infantry. I award myself a virtual slap on the back and a kiss from some sort of hot babe I reckon.

But there is so much land - you (or at least I) can't take over everyone before they get longbows and lots of defense.

Yeah but it was fun anyway, I settled the desert early on (great GP farm and commerce city) which was probably a mistake. I'm not going to put myself through it again, at least I have a minor in the bag and a new civ, and map type. It's only my third win on Warlords (domination on Noble once before this challenge, Space race on Prince - my first win on Prince level! and now this). Far too many cities for how I normally play. I've become to like warmongering early though! Harbourboy, you should award yourself at least a pat on the back and a hug if not a kiss from a virtual hot chick.

But there is so much land - you (or at least I) can't take over everyone before they get longbows and lots of defense.

It helps to patiently wait on the MapFinder to generate an awesome start and to selectively pick the weakest opponents. Even then you have to do some calculations to know exactly how many tiles you need for the land component of the domination win. After you get enough land, getting enough population is easy.

If you have enough of them, Jaguars you can take down longbows. You might need catapults if they start producing macemen or have high cultural defenses.

Just so I know, who would you consider the weakest leaders? I'm guessing Gandhi (peacenik), and Civs with late UUs (such as America, France maybe, Germany, and England perhaps?)

Just so I know, who would you consider the weakest leaders? I'm guessing Gandhi (peacenik), and Civs with late UUs (such as America, France maybe, Germany, and England perhaps?)

The weakest are:

a) Not Aggressive
b) Not Creative (culture defense)
c) Not Mansa (UU)
d) Not Caesar (UU)

Seems like Mao and Peter get selected a lot to get beat up on.
Gandhi is not so easy because he'll get a religion very quickly and that's more culture defense.

I'm sure I forgot another criteria...

I always seem to beat up Isabella, she declares war on me then suicides all her units because I have heathenism. Although Peter was pretty easy too in my current game. Mao is protective is he not? Again, from my current game with Qin that wasn't a problem since he had no longbows but I guess you need to act quickly like I did to finish him off.

In this game I don't think it would be worth picking opponents, I just went random. If I was Creative and Protective I'd avoid.

It helps to patiently wait on the MapFinder to generate an awesome start and to selectively pick the weakest opponents.

I never do either of those things. I always go random start and random opponents.

Protective is a pain, but I too go random opponents/random starts.

Harbourboy, the way WastinTime finished so fast was by igoring all the northern civs, he conquered the southern ones and then spammed settlers, nothing else. It works if you have 10 opponents because you only need to conquer half the map.

I never do either of those things. I always go random start and random opponents.

Neither do I when just playing a non-competition game. Those are the kinds of tricks that result in record breaking games, which is good for playing in the HOF.

Edit: Just finished another one, 1585 AD. This time I used the MapFinder to get a 2gem start with lots of food and river tiles. I must have not done it right though because at the end there was a lot of unspent gold. None of my workers or settlers were disbanded at the end. This time I didn't have the Pyramids and I got beat to the Oracle by 2 turns. For opponents I went with Elizabeth, Isabella, Bismark, Qin, Mansa and Roosevelt. Qin built the mids which was just out of my reach before victory.

Neither do I when just playing a non-competition game. Those are the kinds of tricks that result in record breaking games, which is good for playing in the HOF.

A "mapfinder" start is not needed in this one. I didn't use it on my first game. Yea, you should have one food and one fur at least, but any start could go sub 1000 AD. Same goes for random opponents. Hand picking them doesn't make much difference, but that's part of the fun! The strategy of knowing which ones to pick, and which of those you want to beat up on. That way, when you do have a random set of opponents, you know which ones to take out or leave alone.

Most gauntlets let you pick your leader, you don't use random on that right? Seems like you should to fit the spirit of that style of play.

You also pick your map and sea level, mountain ranges, etc. (on some gauntlets).

One of my first maps came up with a HoF warning. Apparently I mistakenly put in two Bismarks. The bad thing was, I was sitting on two grass gems. My next map wasn't too good, but I only wanted to try something out, so I ran with it. Got up to IW and built a few jags and sent them to visit Nappy. I didn't expect to win, I just wanted to try them out against a couple of archers. Both my jags were toast.

As expected I started in the south, with absolutely no copper or iron around. This is a good thing, since I don't need them and I prefer my neighbors not having them either. A lot of grass though and jungle. I can't recall whether I had tropical or temperate on, so that was probably my problem.

I think for my next attempt I'll start off with just my capitol and a production city, tech up to CoL while pounding out the jags. Once I have Caste System than I'll start my move on my neighbors. I'm not very good at domination, so this game will be a learning experience for me.

Bah, I'm not doing very good at this gauntlet. I keep making stupid mistakes. Here, let's name a few:
Stonehenge: I was thinking it would allow me to pop my borders quicker, only to finish it just prior to completing CoL. That was a waste of :hammers:.
3rd City: I should have stuck with only two cities, prior to going to war. The third city wasn't productive in time for my first two wars.
First Japanese War: Talk about foolish. I went after Toku hoping to take his capitol. Right off the bat I knew I was going to fail, so after losing just one jag, I left the capitol alone. One of his cities I ended up autorazing and the other was, well, I'm not really for sure. I hit it with two jags and it had two archers. I killed one archer and lost a jag. Apparently during the IBT Toku managed to complete an archer as not only did he gain it, but he used it to take out my wounded jag. That sucks, as I had that city the next turn! In other words, I razed one city, lost a bunch of units, and gained nothing.
Second Japanese War: Much better (partly). I took Toku's capitol plus two other cities. I held the war just long enough to complete Feudalism so I could gain him as a vassal, but he wouldn't do it. Ended up just signing for peace. Oh, the partly remark, yeah, let me explain. Toku had an archer near my third city (yeah, the one I shouldn't have built) just north of the hills and river. Not wanting his archer to gain higher ground, I moved a jag onto the desert hill. This had me on a hill with the river between us. Toky moved SW putting him W of my jag (on a desert tile) and NW of my city. Easy pickings, so I whomped the archer only to find out afterward Toku had a warrior too. Whoops, my third now undefended city just got captured. I took it back the next turn, but still, what a mistake!

I'm currently in the early AD's and things aren't looking very good. I've got six cities now and could probably expand more, but I'll have a very late date. I'm tempted to scrap this one and go back to the Major. Well.....maybe just a couple more turns.

I'm not very good at domination games, so what are you all doing? I know what WastinTime is doing and I was attempting to do that too. The problem is, I first need to get the early part of my game better. :blush:

Don't ask me. I'll be surprised if anyone has a slower date than me.

I'm at 40% and beating on a couple of civ's. But it's 1600 although I'm going with raging barbs and playing warlords. Should be done before 1800. Not stellar but it seem's reasonable. Built the henge for a GP and the great wall to keep out barbs.

in my game, 9 opponents and no barbarian, so far I manage to kill off 3 ai and vassalize ramsees II. Right now it is 980AD and so far I have 24% land, with 3 city in anarchy, possibily 28% once their border extends (stonehenge). However, other rivals are starting to get longbowmen, and I say there is roughly 15-25% of unclaimed land out there. I can only stay in positive gold at 30% science, and I am about #3 on tech. I hve a combination of jaguars and catapults, if to fight againast longbwmem, I may lose a lot units. Hopefully can finish within 1500 AD. (I need 58% land)

Stonehenge: I was thinking it would allow me to pop my borders quicker, only to finish it just prior to completing CoL. That was a waste of :hammers:.

Not a waste. I build this and tech to CoL also. A newly planted city (working an artist) would take 25 turns to pop borders twice. It only takes 20 turns with Stonehenge. That's a huge difference when you are talking about a 140 turn game.

...speaking of 140 turns. I tried for this and came up short. At 600 AD I was 2% short on population and 7% short on land. I either built too many Jags, or I stopped warmongering too soon. I had so many unprotected cities when I had the option to start a new war, so I had to stop.

I managed to improve from 1580AD to 1200AD. None of the 3 civs on the bottom of the map had copper. I was able to keep a war going on both fronts with Jags, Cats, and Elephants. My favorite trick is to use worker to build roads to my neighbors early. Later I use them to head off into unclaimed territory to speed settlement.

I didn't think about using artists to speed up border expansion. I always go for Stonehedge, though. (Just don't make the mistake of trading for Calendar.)

I may try again but it was 5-6 games played into the low AD's before I came up with this one.

780
Very excited
I have never completed a domination game where you drop 25-30 settlers all in a few turns, I wasn't sure it was going to work. I produced two Great Merchants, and in the end the money saved my butt, because the whole popping the settlers took like 10 turns. I was at about 25% when I started popping, thats all you need. Following WastinTime's adviced I ignored the north and only used axes and Jags. Teched all the way to Music, I don't think it was worth it. Moved my capital as I started to pop, that was worth it (had the palace one turn from finished)
Might be able to do better, but it was a very good start, copper fell in my capital.

540AD:)
Finished on strike
All the battles went my way, took down 5 AIs by 100AD
I won't get any luckier:crazyeye: , thats it for me.

Thanks WastinTime for laying out the strategy:goodjob:

540AD:)
Finished on strike
All the battles went my way, took down 5 AIs by 100AD
I won't get any luckier:crazyeye: , thats it for me.

Thanks WastinTime for laying out the strategy:goodjob:

Sweet result. I always share my strategy/answer questions. I guess that lets me share a little bit in your victory. Now for my questions:

Did you use Warlords and vassals? Did you start in a corner and attack one direction or 2 ways? 540 AD...What is that..turn 137 ?

Did you use Warlords and vassals? Did you start in a corner and attack one direction or 2 ways? 540 AD...What is that..turn 137 ?[/QUOTE]

It was vanilla. Vanilla is better for this gauntlet, I think, because the AIs are noticably poorer in military tactics -- they do dumb things:D . I attacked in two directions and resupplied units by cutting barracks and units out of the last AI knocked off. Even with roads moving units from one side to the other is not practical. I'm not sure what turn it was, I was just very glad that I slipped over 58% as my remaining settlers were about to go--are settlers the first you loose?:confused:

None of the AIs in the south got metal long enough to make any axes, that helped.

Trying to keep where 30+ settlers are going, gives one a headache:p , I don't know how you do it on a larger map.

Trying to keep where 30+ settlers are going, gives one a headache:p , I don't know how you do it on a larger map.

I've never done it on a larger scale than this myself.

I use signposts (alt+s) to mark where they're going.

Have no time for the match, but my tapence: I would've built tons of chariots, maybe (maybe!) with woodmenII jaguars to attack along the southern wooded rim.

Well, this one is almost over now. There seem to be only 11 submitted games so far, which means I have a great chance of coming in the top 20! :banana:

And unless you have another bash Harbourboy I won't be last! I wonder what the next game will be?

I had 2 tries at Monarch today since I'd never played that level before (looking at this months GMajor). Hmm... I've got some practising to do I think.

There can't be much time left for this gauntlet so no time for me to have another bash. You'd have to get up pretty early in the morning to make as big a hash of this gauntlet as I did. I never really recovered from losing my mighty stack of 8 jaguars to 3 archers in my first city attack. I wonder what will be in the next one?

I wonder what will be in the next one?

yay! we got Harbourboy addicted to gauntlets :). i love reading your posts, since you do things differently even before the game starts. i very much hope you stick around for the next one ... and the next one ... and the next one!

I'm looking forward to the next one too. Harbourboy's style is the same as mine: Random leaders, barbarians on, don't worry about getting the best time (I know I wouldn't be able to have the dedication to even come close to that), have fun and challenge yourself, in other words.

KMad I hope you stick around too after you become a QM and don't have a lull after completimg that huge achievement, and look for a new non-civ challenge! I suppose BtS will be out by then though. Just don't quit posting after you become a QM and move on to a new challenge like becoming the world's greatest Hello Kitty Best Friends Game player or something!

well thank you ParadigmShifter! but as for the timing of me getting QM ... " I suppose BtS will be out by then though." oh ye of little faith! check this weekend, if i counted my empty boxes right. i'm a permanoob, but a major gauntlet was the only big deal; there are cheesy methods for filling all of the other boxes :).

but of course i have to stay, i can't get my goal of worst unless people rank better than me! i can't think of any way that i can influence that other than sharing the best advice i can give, in the hopes that their games improve and they get higher scores ;). and it'd be nice if the tips help in decreasing frustrations, and therefore increases their fun!

i didn't try this gauntlet, it seems like so very much effort! but i'm enjoying reading about how you diehards are approaching it.

I realise you will hit QM this update KMad, I was just saying if you do get into a post-QM lull then BtS will be out soon enough to get you playing Civ again. I think Methos posted somewhere that most new QMs seem to have a cooling off period when they have become a QM, were they don't play civ as much but then they notice their rankings and try and climb up the table, which obviously wont be an issue with yourself :). Unless you can persuade them to get your worst 2 games in each box accepted rather than the best 2!

You will never be able to top your QScore of 0.0 though in one of your games if I recall correctly!

I won't be finishing this minor, unfortunately...I ran out of time and will be out of town for a couple weeks now...so hopefully the next update brings a major, rather than a minor :D

...so hopefully the next update brings a major, rather than a minor :D

You can always hope for both. :mischief:

well, I won't be back in town until after the first update of June, so I won't be able to participate in a minor at all lol

Looks like the new gauntletes are about to be posted.

Using my amazing psychic powers... I reckon they will be...

Minor: Conquest, Monarch, Standard, Ancient Terra, Epic
Major: Space Race, Monarch, Standard, Ancient Terra, Epic

Both with any civ or leader.

I wish I could use the WOTM9 map for the minor.

EDIT: And a Beyond the Sword forum has just been added. It's all change around here.

Wow, you must be some sort of psychic!

I know. Mystic Meg has nothing on me. I'm trying a test game for the Minor at the moment, Ramesses again after the WOTM9. I've been beaten up badly at Monarch so far but this game is going a little better, 1000BC and 2 of Churchill's cities fallen to my mighty War Chariots. He has a lot of beach cities so I hope I can make him surrender soon. The good thing about this gauntlet (if it stays with the settings I predicted) is that if you run into problems with conquest you can aim for a space race for the major! It's a win-win (or lose) situation!

EDIT: Are you trying this months WOTM Harbourboy?

Monarch difficulty is probably just carried over from last month. I would not think we would play 2 more monarch gauntlets. Not sure I am psychic, but I expect (hope) one or both of those to change.

Killed or vassal'd everyone in the South by 500 AD, ready to drop settlers by 1000 AD...

my borders popped, and... 100 tiles short of the land limit.

That'll teach me to add on a piece of paper! :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad:

Quite possibly the most frustrating end to a game that I have
ever experienced. I'm going to go drink something strong now. :)

Are you trying this months WOTM Harbourboy?

Yes, you just haven't heard anything because I haven't reached the spoiler limit yet. Rest assured, there will someone you can beat in the WOTM rankings this month as well.

Monarch difficulty is probably just carried over from last month. I would not think we would play 2 more monarch gauntlets. Not sure I am psychic, but I expect (hope) one or both of those to change.

Yeah, seems a bit weird to me (if the Gauntlet games on the HOF site stay as they are). I expect we will know soon enough.

My test game is over already, no horses nearby and too much jungle to plow through to get to Churchill meant I attacked London too early.

Good luck in WOTM Harbourboy, 1382AD is the date I have posted and 65802 or something for score. It was a fun game this months WOTM and my best attempt yet at Prince (although I think the map was pretty easy).

Been knocked out of the top 10 for the minor gauntlet anyway, I knew it wouldn't last.

This Gauntlet has concluded. AAA took first place with a 540 AD finish. WastinTime took second with a 720 AD finish, with Denniz taking third place at 1200 AD.

Congrats all, and especially for all the good posting going on here :goodjob:

Well done AAA. I see that nobody came anywhere near my diabolical 2026 attempt.

Thanks to all involved in running this gauntlet.

Wow AAA, in Unreal Tournament you'd call this "DOUBLE KILL"