I decided to try an OCC to increase my Diplo scores and things just weren't going very well. I figured I might as well share my game.

Relations: Everyone except Cathering was either pleased or friendly with me the entire game. Cathering bordered between cautious and annoyed, but luckily never dow'ed on me. As a matter of fact, the one who did dow on me I totally wasn't expecting.
Victoria: You know, I'm beginning to agree with KMadCandy here. In my peaceful games she seems to like dow'ing on me. Funny thing is, when she did she attacked me with a warrior when she had macemen in her main cities. I started building musketmen and trebs to send all the way across the map and sure enough, just as I get there she's willing to talk. The entire war was me destroying a warrior, cat, and macemen.
Oracle: MM'ed my city to push Oracle back two turns and speed up CoL, so I could grab CS. I missed Oracle by one turn.
Liberalism: I missed it by two turns. What sucks is I had put it off to get a better tech. Somehow Hatty snuck in there and grabbed it from under me.
Engineer: I got lucky and earned an engineer three turns prior to completing MM. With some well timed chops and the rush I completed the UN in one turn.
The Vote: I fully expected Cathering to be my opponent and knew with her I had this game whipped (nearly everyone hated her). Unfortunately Mansa had to go and become Asoka's vassal, pushing him into the lead. Sure enough, I failed to become Sec. General. I stopped at this point, as I'm beginning to get frustrated. I'll come back later and hopefully manage to pull off a win. The good thing is, I'm still 200 years short of the #1 position on the tables, so I still have a chance.

As a matter of fact, the one who did dow on me I totally wasn't expecting.
Victoria: You know, I'm beginning to agree with KMadCandy here. In my peaceful games she seems to like dow'ing on me.
Engineer: I got lucky and earned an engineer three turns prior to completing MM. With some well timed chops and the rush I completed the UN in one turn.
The Vote: I fully expected Catherine to be my opponent and knew with her I had this game whipped (nearly everyone hated her). Unfortunately Mansa had to go and become Asoka's vassal, pushing him into the lead. Sure enough, I failed to become Sec. General. I stopped at this point, as I'm beginning to get frustrated. I'll come back later and hopefully manage to pull off a win. The good thing is, I'm still 200 years short of the #1 position on the tables, so I still have a chance.

grrrrr to all the so-close misses and such!

the vicky thing ... i'm telling you for your own protection, do not trust her! sometimes i'm crazy, sometimes i'm right, sometimes both at once.
the GE ... you didn't get one early and save him at all costs????? you are so brave! i get one ASAP when i get metalcasting (and build a forge when i ought not to due to health, probably), and then i keep him sleeping forever and a day, until i learn mass media. i'm just too scared to risk having someone else build it, mansa beat me to it once even when i did have a GE, since he wouldn't do all of it in a single turn. even on deity when the AI is so rich, i never have enough to sell them to buy it outright :lol:.
the vote ... yeah if you're frustrated take a break for sure. my gut feeling is that of course you still have a chance, there'll be other SG votes. when the next vote for anything comes up, pay attention to how many votes asoka gets to cast vs. how many catherine gets to cast. that'll give you an idea how much of a population gap there is. i don't know how mansa being a vassal is factored into that, so a straight comparison might not give an exact picture.

then again i've never even aimed for any #1 spots so be careful listening to me ;). except about vicky!!!!! don't trust her!

i am very glad you won the war against her :goodjob:. saving your only city totally counts as winning you know!

the GE ... you didn't get one early and save him at all costs????? you are so brave! i get one ASAP when i get metalcasting (and build a forge when i ought not to due to health, probably), and then i keep him sleeping forever and a day, until i learn mass media.

Nope, as a matter of fact, the first two GE's I got I merged into my city. Honestly, I realized my error when I got to the end, but as luck would have it, I popped one!

i'm just too scared to risk having someone else build it, mansa beat me to it once even when i did have a GE, since he wouldn't do all of it in a single turn.

I was so fard a head tech-wise that I didn't have to worry about it. I was gifting techs like crazy at the end and I was still in the lead. One thing about OCC games is research is typically awesome!

when the next vote for anything comes up, pay attention to how many votes asoka gets to cast vs. how many catherine gets to cast.

Cathering was the largest empire, with Asoka next. With Cathering and Mansa siding with Asoka I was screwed. I'll have to see how to get Cathering to see his bad side. Everyone else voted for me, but that still wasn't enough. I'm curious if a vassal will vote against his master?

i don't know how mansa being a vassal is factored into that, so a straight comparison might not give an exact picture.

Half of Mansa's land is included in Asoka's domination factor, which is used (I believe, not good at diplos) in figuring who is a candidate. What sucks is according to the F8 screen, Catherine had the most land. Is population taken into account for candidatecy (sp)?

Is population taken into account for candidatecy (sp)?
As far as I'm aware, only populations is taken into account.

I was so far a head tech-wise that I didn't have to worry about it. I was gifting techs like crazy at the end and I was still in the lead. One thing about OCC games is research is typically awesome!

ok, either i suck waaaaay more than i already KNEW i did, or you're not playing at deity *gigglefest*.

As far as I'm aware, only populations is taken into account.

yup. F8 population is all that matters for who's up to vote. F8 and who builds/owns UN. the demographics page and F8 calculate population differently, the F8 formula is the UN formula but there's no way you can find that exact info (that i know of) except for on F8 for yourself and one AI. you can't exactly know for any other AI.

that's why i recommended looking at how many votes they have. the number of votes depends on the population. if she has say, 3 less votes than him, well she was awfully close to being your competition for SG, maybe stop trading him a health resource or something and the situation changes. gift her bio or medicine or a health tech he doesn't have, you know? but if she has 2000 less votes than him, you're out of luck buddy. but i don't know how vassal population works into that, if at all.

land area doesn't matter a bit. vassals will not vote against their master for SG or diplo victory ... unless the vassal built the UN himself, which can happen :lol:.

As far as I'm aware, only populations is taken into account.

yup.....
....land area doesn't matter a bit.

No wonder I suck at Diplo games! I was thinking your opponent was chosen based off of land. :lol:

ok, either i suck waaaaay more than i already KNEW i did, or you're not playing at deity *gigglefest*.

I only played this game on Prince, but that doesn't change the fact that OCC games can research quickly. I've won space victories on monarch with OCC games before. Representation, Caste System, and a lot of merged GL can really speed your research along.

that's why i recommended looking at how many votes they have. the number of votes depends on the population. if she has say, 3 less votes than him, well she was awfully close to being your competition for SG, maybe stop trading him a health resource or something and the situation changes. gift her bio or medicine or a health tech he doesn't have, you know? but if she has 2000 less votes than him, you're out of luck buddy. but i don't know how vassal population works into that, if at all.

Thanks for the advice! Diplo games are just not my thing.

i love diplo deity OCC, ever since trying that major, altho i haven't won one yet. because i'm trying for diplo peacefully there my research slows way down but yeah, in general in OCC games, your research flies. and no happiness problems!

i was quite the OCC addict for a while there. i blame wastintime :lol:.

you are not the first to think that UN eligibility went by land, i've also seen some think it goes by score or power. but now you know and you shall prevail! good luck and have fun :)

If the map is small enough, you can just add up the populations of every city (trade maps to get the most updated info). If it's large, it just takes too much time. Maybe this is something that could be added to HOFMod - it's information you can get yourself (by counting), at the very least it could tell you how many votes you have.

Is population taken into account for candidatecy (sp)?

Population is the only thing taken into account for diplomacy candidacy.

However, it is population according to the F8 screen, not the demographics screen. They measure population differently...the demographics adds up the total population of your cities, while the F8 screen adds up the population POINTS of all your cities...

eg. You have a size 14 city and Mansa has 14 size 1 cities. In the demographics, it shows you at 1M pop, and mansa at 140,000 pop...but according to the F8 screen, your population is equal. :crazyeye:

Its slightly counterintuitive, but at least it makes it so you can manually count how many votes each civ should have in the vote. As for vassals...I believe that for matters of candidacy, you add half the vassals votes to the masters votes to determine if he is the biggest/second biggest civ.

Hope that helps you!

I decided to try an OCC to increase my Diplo scores and things just weren't going very well. I figured I might as well share my game.

Relations: Everyone except Cathering was either pleased or friendly with me the entire game. Cathering bordered between cautious and annoyed, but luckily never dow'ed on me. As a matter of fact, the one who did dow on me I totally wasn't expecting.
Victoria: You know, I'm beginning to agree with KMadCandy here. In my peaceful games she seems to like dow'ing on me. Funny thing is, when she did she attacked me with a warrior when she had macemen in her main cities. I started building musketmen and trebs to send all the way across the map and sure enough, just as I get there she's willing to talk. The entire war was me destroying a warrior, cat, and macemen.
The Vote: I fully expected Cathering to be my opponent and knew with her I had this game whipped (nearly everyone hated her). Unfortunately Mansa had to go and become Asoka's vassal, pushing him into the lead. Sure enough, I failed to become Sec. General. I stopped at this point, as I'm beginning to get frustrated. I'll come back later and hopefully manage to pull off a win. The good thing is, I'm still 200 years short of the #1 position on the tables, so I still have a chance.

You shoulda have said mapsize/type too just for our interest.
Well, you did quite well just sucks to lose oracle&lib so nearly. It seems like you have chosen opponents badly (or very small map? maybe warlords?) if you have problems with vote. If you pick opps that give +relation for civics that you use (usually suffrage on vanilla has most advantage) you should be easily over +8. As +4 for trades, +1 for peace, +1 for borders, +1 for base reation for most, maybe some will give +1 for trading resources, and alot from civics. Try to get them to take either same religion with eachother or bribe them for free rel. Then you can pick relig thats not far enough on votes. It also helps to counter relig bonuses for the opponent.

Not sure which diff you play but usually its worthwhile to give any tech they ask from you and then trade it to everyone else. If you have good relations to all saving techs for later is messed easily with this. Only thing I try to save is paper/education/scientific, maybe alpha if you can do that for a while. Slows their teching and gives edge for lib race, same works for pacifism too.

Takes few runs to learn, but only start matters in this type in the end. Gems+stone and your done :)

-Dracandross