The new Celtic leader is Charismatic + Aggressive...

wasn't that one of the supposedly forbidden combinations? ... or one of the dream combinations, in threads discussing unused trait combos.

It's seems pretty wicked to me... and Celtic nonetheless, woot! I love playing them, even if their unique building is kinda lame. (Maybe that'll be changed in the expansion too??)

The new Celtic leader is Charismatic + Aggressive...

wasn't that one of the supposedly forbidden combinations? ... or one of the dream combinations, in threads discussing unused trait combos.

It's seems pretty wicked to me... and Celtic nonetheless, woot! I love playing them, even if their unique building is kinda lame. (Maybe that'll be changed in the expansion too??)

what abot the UU

Good God. :D

what abot the UU

It doesn't matter.

Given the traits Charismatic and Spiritual, or even more dominating, Charismatic and Aggressive, the UU (and UB for all I care) could be 'none' and it would still be my favorite civ. Brennus rocks; if they have a Charismatic and Aggressive leader (which I'm almost inclined to not believe as it'd be so powerful), it would be pure ridiculous pwnage.

Marching troops at 8 XP. Commando at 13 XP. You do not want to be the neighbor of someone with those abilities.

Cha/Agg would be overpowered in Warlords, but who knows in BTS. They are going to patch it after its released anyway.

And besides, Praetorians are already broken and the game is still playable.

Cha/Agg would be overpowered in Warlords, but who knows in BTS. They are going to patch it after its released anyway.

And besides, Praetorians are already broken and the game is still playable.


There was mention of mix and match leadership Boudica's Aggressive/Charasmatic and Rome's Praets sound like a game-breaker to me.

Im wondering whether this expansion pack has been a bit rushed... if thats the case, i expect a major patch to be coming soon. perhaps there will be some kind of penalty to balance boudicca out? its nice that shes a leader though: love that period of history.

Normally Boudicca would be balanced out by the fact the Celts have a weak UU and UB but this gets thrown out the window with the whole mix-and-match leaders and civs thing.

Normally Boudicca would be balanced out by the fact the Celts have a weak UU and UB but this gets thrown out the window with the whole mix-and-match leaders and civs thing.

I really don't think she will be overpowered. It's a non-default option to mix-and-match leaders and civs, so it isn't the standard game to have her as leader of the Romans. But I'm glad Firaxis is including that option because it will greatly enhance the replayability of the game in my opinion. After I've played the game a thousand times or so, I'm sure I'd like to try some new interesting combination of leaders/civs. Churchill of the Chinese would destroy Boudica of the Romans...

It will not be overpowered.Whether Boudica will get Agg/Cha it has also a crap UB and a weak UU.
Compare Boudicca to Hannibal or Roman leaders i'm sure you will in any case prefer Carthage or Romans over Celts.
Carthage has the 2 most powerful traits in the game with a really powerful UU and a good UB
Cesar Augustus has traits which are in synergy a Uber UU and a good UB.

There was mention of mix and match leadership Boudica's Aggressive/Charasmatic and Rome's Praets sound like a game-breaker to me.

I didn't think of that. Very, very true. Well, it might be fun to mess around with, but I usually try to do things to make the game harder. Being able to mix and match the leaders and civs will create a lot of opportunities for interesting games, even if some will be completely over or under powered.

Normally Boudicca would be balanced out by the fact the Celts have a weak UU and UB but this gets thrown out the window with the whole mix-and-match leaders and civs thing.

Wasn't that possibility only a non-default option for multi-player ? I suppose that, if the option spoils the game, it should simply not be used. Anyway I play only single player games, so it is not an issue for me.

Just have ALL the Civ slots set to Agg/Chm Roman. It's possible, and it would be way fun. War freaks.

Then set the game to always peace, boo-yah!

I think you guys are over-estimating the leader/civ mixing option - it is going only to be a possibility, not a default option, so players can choose if they want to play with that or not. In multiplayer you can simply agree with other players not to use this option, and voila, problem solved (and in single player you have a full control of the game settings anyway). :rolleyes:

Yeah baby yeah!
Boudicea!! :D

I can't wait to start a game as Augustus and grind this Briton bimbo Boudicca's butt into dust.

Too much alliteration? :D

^
What if they improved the AI to the point even a human will cry (more likely this will be caused by the extreme RAM requirements, though ;))?

Even with a better ai (or BetterAI), the Romans still win, hands down.

(I wish we had a Roman Legionary smiley.)

IMO Agg/Pro Leader + Celtic wall = 4 free promos for a gunpowder unit (Combat I Garrison 1 Drill 1 and Hill defense 1) :( Queue in Barracks + Vassalage and all your gunpowdered units start with 6 promos....

IMO Agg/Pro Leader + Celtic wall = 4 free promos for a gunpowder unit (Combat I Garrison 1 Drill 1 and Hill defense 1) :( Queue in Barracks + Vassalage and all your gunpowdered units start with 6 promos....

That will keep those filthy Romans busy. :D

Ugh. Boudicea made it into the game.

It's ironic that a leader who led a short, failed, localised rebellion of a few tribesmen in Britain ended up getting one of the strongest trait combo.

Feminists did it. ;)

With Barracks, Stables, Vassalage and Theocracy (no Instructors): All cities can produce melee/gunpowder units who are 1xp away from Combat IV and Combat III mounted units. One instructor and it tips melle/gunpowder into Combat IV. Another 2 instructors and you have Combat V melee/gunpowder units and Combat IV mounted units right out of the city. ... this is before Westpoint or the Pentagon!

And this doesn't take into consideration that the units still get the -25% xp for all future promotions after they have been built.

With Barracks, Stables, Vassalage and Theocracy (no Instructors): All cities can produce melee/gunpowder units who are 1xp away from Combat IV and Combat III mounted units. One instructor and it tips melle/gunpowder into Combat IV. Another 2 instructors and you have Combat V melee/gunpowder units and Combat IV mounted units right out of the city. ... this is before Westpoint or the Pentagon!

And this doesn't take into consideration that the units still get the -25% xp for all future promotions after they have been built.

Stables ?


10 CHARACTERS

Stables ?What? Barracks, vassalage and theocracy helps with melee/gunpowder units while barracks, stables, vassalage and theocracy helps mounted units.

I hope Queen Boudica is a hotty... she will probably be my new favorite, if she's hottness too, she'll be my new love! Oh, Boudica, I cannot wait until July!!

I hope Queen Boudica is a hotty... she will probably be my new favorite, if she's hottness too, she'll be my new love! Oh, Boudica, I cannot wait until July!!

Comrade.... You need a life.... or a girlfriend. ;)

Apparently Boudicca is a hero among the Britons, especially the female British. At least from what I've heard. Perhaps that's why she's in?

Boudica was the leader of Briton resistance to Roman ocupation of Britain.
Wikipedia Link on Boudica (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boudica)

So its understandable....

She led the Celts against the Romans 20 years after they invaded Britain. The general Suetonius had to contend with the rebellion. Probably the most famous ancient Celt, after Vercingetorix and Brennus.

And being, in RL, a tall redheaded woman, didn't have nothing to to do with the fact that she's been chosen for a Civ IV leader ... :lol:

Izzy's got competition now. :p

Cathy "was" my babe, though she has slapped me for the last time... now my eyes are set on Queen Bodacious.

ohh.... I am in love. I wish we could see a sneak peak of her leaderhead.

Apparently Boudicca is a hero among the Britons, especially the female British. At least from what I've heard. Perhaps that's why she's in?
Why the British?

She was a Briton!

Why the British?

That's what I thought. I mean, she burnt down London. Ironically there's a statue there today showing her protecting the city.

And Boadica isn't a "great" leader in the sense that she changed the course of history. She didn't. Her rebellion lasted less than 2 years before it was totally crushed. The Romans ruled Britain. Boadica was forgotten until very recently.

FYI: There's a special on the "History" Channel on her tonight. It started at 8, but they're replaying it at midnight. (all times Eastern)

That's what I thought. I mean, she burnt down London. Ironically there's a statue there today showing her protecting the city.


As I understand it, Boudicca's supposed to represent the native "British" people rising up against the tyranny of the occupiers--the Romans. I guess it is sort of odd, if you think about it; the Anglo-Saxons were not the original inhabitants, but were themselves invaders. As I said to a British friend of mine recently, "The Welsh are the real Britons!" She got a look of horror on her face. But it's true.

@Grimus:
Well, this is the current modded LH for Boadicea:
http://forums.civfanatics.com/downloads//boudica_r5R.jpg

Maybe that'll hold you for now. ;)

I wonder if she'll look anything like my CivIII version of Boudicca?

http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/20480/BO.jpg

I wonder what her unique diplomacy text will be? Each leader gets a unique greeting and a few other statements, e.g., Roosevelt says, "The only thing you have to fear is the terrible consequence of not giving me what I want." when he's making a threat. What will Boudicca say?

"It is excellent to meet you! Shall there be peace between us, or do I have to burn down a couple of your cities to educate you in the ways of the Celtic people?"

@ Gaius: gasp! I hope she doesn't look like that!

@ R8XFT: wow! Now THAT is hotness... I hope she looks like this! I want to kiss my monitor screen.

You, my friend, have been playing way, WAY too long... :p

I would also prefer the LH to be like R8XFT's LH, as it's just better, and considering the other one is just a re-skin of Isabella, that's a definite possibility. On that note, I wonder if Hammurabi will look like he did in Civ 3.

[Post 600]

There was a good documentary on Queen Boudica on the History Channel, apparently, she lost to the Romans, the final battle she was in was a total loss, thousands were killed on her side. Many believe that she poisoned herself.

Those are some big horns on that helmet of hers.

Since she's British (well Celtic anyway), and a redhead, her first contact line will probably be "Well, whatever, are you going to buy me a drink or what?".

I wonder what her unique diplomacy text will be? Each leader gets a unique greeting and a few other statements, e.g., Roosevelt says, "The only thing you have to fear is the terrible consequence of not giving me what I want."
Actually, I have heard him say "America does not negotiate with terrorists" or something along those lines before...usually when he is ticked and "Refuses to talk!!!"

I've seen Roosevelt say that just before he invades my peaceful civ going for a culture or space race win with his tanks and Navy SEALs.

The things you discover everyday. Those guys at Firaxis have quite a sense of humor.

I have a feeling Boudica will have body paint. Stereotyping is key.

The things you discover everyday. Those guys at Firaxis have quite a sense of humor.

I have a feeling Boudica will have body paint. Stereotyping is key.

In reality she did have body paint so I would expect her to have it in the game.

In reality she did have body paint so I would expect her to have it in the game.
I've a feeling she won't have body paint. Look around for images of Boudicca and you'll generally find a red-haired woman in a cloak, often depicted on a chariot - but no body paint. I think Firaxis will base their image on that.

Stop talking about body paint. You'll get Grimus going again... ;)

Does anyone feel this is too many Brit (in the historical not Civ sense) leaders?

Well, Britain is the third largest videogame market in the world (£2 billion in 2003,) after Japan, and the US. Of course this does not explain why there is only one Japanese leader.

I'm also a little disappointed that Boudicca got in. She, and Vercingetorix, did nearly win, but you also needed non-military achievements. Brennus gave the tribes a more united identity, significantly delaying Caeser's conquest of Gaul, and actually governed the places, for a while. Also, like Alexander, he managed something that was so difficult that most leaders did not even try: to order his armies not to pillage, rape or destory cities, but actually add it, and the inhabitants, peacefully into the empire. In the ancient world that takes a very forward thinking and charismatic leader to do so...

Stop talking about body paint. You'll get Grimus going again... ;)

Did somebody mention body paint?! hmm... interesting.... [faint]

Agg/Cha will be op. Hands down most powerful combo in the game post-xpac. Only Ind/Phil would be more broken methinks.

Bodacious Boudicca? Bootylicious Boudicca?

Actually, I think if you're going with alliteration or a rhyming couplet, Bodacious Boadicea is the way you want to go.

Now, seriously, Grimus, you'll need to think about finding a more interesting...er, interest.

http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/20480/BO.jpg CIV3!!


http://forums.civfanatics.com/downloads//boudica_r5R.jpg CIv4?? :sad: :lol:

Well? how come the Civ3 LH's are 100% original while the 'new and improved' better modding game has a reincarnation of the spanish leader with pasty herion addiction look
Ive noticed more ripoffs like this. For instance 4 or 5 George Washinton's relitives and a few more degenerated dissendents of Gandi being pawned as 'new LHs's' , Ya right! Let keep it real like ROb over there. Its time to get something new over here.

EXAMPLE: Look, CIv3 dosn't rely on Xpaks to get fresh leaderheads try this it was 1 week ago one week later you'll see 4 eras for it
http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/25392/Basil2.gif


And for fresh unit ingenuity after 6 years its still adding up :D ...
http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/25392/Hussite_War_Wagon.gif
last two works done by Great Artist embryodead

Well, quite easy, Civ4s leaderheads are animated an in 3d (though I think the former is the "problem"). btw. there are quite a few good new (animated) leaderheads for Civ4, Hammurabi of RFC comes to my mind...

Cyrus' tanned cousin?

Hammurabi is a reskin of Cyrus. What Mr. Jones is saying is that Civ 3's leaderheads are new from the ground up, while Civ 4's are basically reskins.

The reason? It's an entirely different format, and much harder to work with!!! It's the same old problem as with the "editor". Sure, they've made it better and much more customizable, but in the process 95% of the community has lost the ability to produce anything. It's the same analogy with cars and Henry Ford; it didn't mean much until mass production.

This rant brought to you by the makers of Civilization 5. Civilization 5: Rise of Complexity!

Yes, it's based on Cyrus, but it is not only a copy, you have to admit that.

If we can get off Boudicca and the graphics for a moment, I had a thought related to the OP...

Is the "forbidden" Chm/Agg a sign that they've toned done one or both of the traits? I remember when they did this to industrious in Civ 3. Made me mad that the Americans weren't top-notch anymore. :mad:

Given the traits Charismatic and Spiritual, or even more dominating, Charismatic and Aggressive, the UU (and UB for all I care) could be 'none' and it would still be my favorite civ. Brennus rocks; if they have a Charismatic and Aggressive leader (which I'm almost inclined to not believe as it'd be so powerful), it would be pure ridiculous pwnage.

Marching troops at 8 XP. Commando at 13 XP. You do not want to be the neighbor of someone with those abilities.

Um... Melee and Gunpowder units can't gain the Commando Promotion, only mounted units or units that naturally have 2 movement points can gain that promotions.

With Barracks, Stables, Vassalage and Theocracy (no Instructors): All cities can produce melee/gunpowder units who are 1xp away from Combat IV and Combat III mounted units. One instructor and it tips melle/gunpowder into Combat IV. Another 2 instructors and you have Combat V melee/gunpowder units and Combat IV mounted units right out of the city. ... this is before Westpoint or the Pentagon!

And this doesn't take into consideration that the units still get the -25% xp for all future promotions after they have been built.


Don't ALL chrismatic leaders get the same number of early promotions to mounted units, regardless of having aggressive as a secondary trait.

Agg/Cha will be op. Hands down most powerful combo in the game post-xpac. Only Ind/Phil would be more broken methinks.

Bodacious Boudicca? Bootylicious Boudicca?


Don't forget Fin/Org... I think that combination could compete, if the circumstances allow it.


If we can get off Boudicca and the graphics for a moment, I had a thought related to the OP...

Is the "forbidden" Chm/Agg a sign that they've toned done one or both of the traits? I remember when they did this to industrious in Civ 3. Made me mad that the Americans weren't top-notch anymore.

Maybe they removed the Happy from Chrismatic or replace Aggressive's cheap barracks and drydocks with other cheap buildings, like maybe Stables.

Well it doesn't really matter either eay, The combat 1 combine with 25% cheaper Promotions is still powerful regardless.

I'd still prefer them to nerf Financial tho, + 1 Commerce for every plot of 3 Commerce and add in the cheap banks to balance it out.

An easy way to tone down Charismatic is just to remove the +1 happy from monuments and Broadcasting towers.

Well, Britain is the third largest videogame market in the world (£2 billion in 2003,) after Japan, and the US. Of course this does not explain why there is only one Japanese leader.

American/English game ;)

I really don't think she will be overpowered. It's a non-default option to mix-and-match leaders and civs, so it isn't the standard game to have her as leader of the Romans. But I'm glad Firaxis is including that option because it will greatly enhance the replayability of the game in my opinion. After I've played the game a thousand times or so, I'm sure I'd like to try some new interesting combination of leaders/civs. Churchill of the Chinese would destroy Boudica of the Romans...

If the Sioux gets an Archer/Longbowman UU, then Churchill of the Native Americans will be unstoppable... with extra Archer Xp, cheap promotions, bonus promotions, government bonus etc.... OMG :lol:

I was thinking Churchill of the Chinese, with the amazing Cho-Ko-Nu, would be the money combo. But you're right, with the totem pole, protective, and other bonuses this is gonna be one amazing unit.
Here's hoping it stays relevant for a while...

Knite Owl:
Maybe they removed the Happy from Chrismatic or replace Aggressive's cheap barracks and drydocks with other cheap buildings, like maybe Stables.

Well it doesn't really matter either eay, The combat 1 combine with 25% cheaper Promotions is still powerful regardless.

I'd still prefer them to nerf Financial tho, + 1 Commerce for every plot of 3 Commerce and add in the cheap banks to balance it out.

50_Dollar_Bag:
An easy way to tone down Charismatic is just to remove the +1 happy from monuments and Broadcasting towers.

The bolded part is significant. I'd like to see charismatic weakened but reducing the happiness bonus is not the way to go about doing so. The promotion bonus - the element of the charismatic trait that makes it really powerful - needs to be reduced. Ideally it would be reduced so that the second earned promotion is at 5XP rather than 4XP; say -15% XP required for each promotion. This is similar to the proposed alteration to the financial trait; the trait still offers large bonuses but they require a bit more work to obtain.

Look here too:
'Sup with Queen Boudica? (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=224459)
I don't like its title but there are a few good arguements in the thread...

Look here too:
'Sup with Queen Boudica?
I don't like its title but there are a few good arguements in the thread...

we're starting to talk about graphics here, just to warn Grimus :)

we're starting to talk about graphics here, just to warn Grimus :)

hehe, but it is a good thread. :lol: Woo! 400th post...
[offtopic]

Yikes! The Gallic already gives the Celts the best axe-rush in the game, but with AGGRESSIVE too, anyone next to a Celt player with copper might as well just give up straight away.

Over the whole game, though, I still reckon Agg/Cha is just too focused on the military side, and Brennus' Spi/Cha is still going to be the pick of the trait combos.

Yikes! The Gallic already gives the Celts the best axe-rush in the game, but with AGGRESSIVE too, anyone next to a Celt player with copper might as well just give up straight away.

Isn't the Celt UU a Swordsman replacement?

Isn't the Celt UU a Swordsman replacement?
Yep, but it doesn't need iron, so you can run a regular axe rush strategy but also research iron working and pump gallics the same turn IW is finished, and have 3 axes/3 gallics at the same time you'd normally have 6 axes. Works basically the same as an axe rush, but much stronger and with a higher survival rate, so gains more momentum with promos rather than just attrition. And it's less fragile too. Because it's so early, it's one of the few things that can take hilltop holy cities and capitals before catapults.
Add aggressive to that mix and even Shaka has a run for his money as king of ancient-era warfare.

Hey, Grimus, you finally got your wish--they put up a screenie of Boudicca.

http://www.civfanatics.com/gallery/files/5/4/4/7/5/Boudica.jpg


I couldn't help but laugh when I saw her. She looks like a raggedy middle-aged woman who's more of a threat to somebody who cuts ahead of her in line at the supermarket than anything else. :lol: True barbarian. No wonder the Romans crushed her.

nah, Boadicea looks like some middle-aged lady whos very experienced in war and is gonna kill you. :lol: but shes not so young, eh?

Hey, Grimus, you finally got your wish--they put up a screenie of Boudicca.

http://www.civfanatics.com/gallery/files/5/4/4/7/5/Boudica.jpg


I couldn't help but laugh when I saw her. She looks like a raggedy middle-aged woman who's more of a threat to somebody who cuts ahead of her in line at the supermarket than anything else. :lol: True barbarian. No wonder the Romans crushed her.

Ergggg....ehhh....ooo...aaa...:eek: :love:

She's better from close sight.

OH MY GOODNESS!!! (faints)

Thanks Gaius!

I have a thing for older woman anyway...

i was happy when they released that leaderhead so i stopped being llamalike and now i am a boudicia lover

Typical! Put in sexy women, sell more.
I'm unhappy with this Boudicca, seems to be a rock star.

Civ 3's Boudicca was much better, more realistic. Civ 4's is just... ridiculous.

Civ3 had a Boadicea? may i see her? ;)

I am speaking of Rob's version of her, which is up a few posts in this thread.

ah! that one... shes not that much better, but better enough... maybe Firaxis wanted to poke fun at the people who were hoping for another hot leader.

She looks OK but isn't pasty enough for a ginjo. And she has an alarming red nose like Peter Schmeichel!

I really don't see the fuss over this Boudicca leaderhead. She just looks like a woman whos unable to accept that Father Time has caught up with her, clinging onto the last strands of youth she can possibley grasp, kidding herself that she never left her teens.

I'm in love :love:

She looks too modern to me.

so? as long as she's hot i ain't complaining.

so? as long as she's hot i ain't complaining.

Setting the Women's rights movement back 30 years!

*Ting*

Hey, I like her! She is definitely stylish.

Typical! Put in sexy women, sell more.
I'm unhappy with this Boudicca, seems to be a rock star.

And what's wrong in looking like a rock star? She looks great.

I don't get the whole she looks like an older person who refuses to accept that she isn't young anymore.

Okay. What is it about her that makes you think this? Yes she looks older but I don't the personality part.

And even IF it is true so what? What's the problem? More power to her!

That is all I am saying and don't get me started on the rock star whines!

Modern? I don't see anything modern about her.

She looks too modern to me.

guys, i just realized, shes just a BUNCH OF PIXELS. get over it. :)

I wonder about the scenery she's in. Aren't castles way later than her times?

She looks OK but isn't pasty enough for a ginjo. And she has an alarming red nose like Peter Schmeichel!

Never thought I would see a post referring to Peter Schmiechel in here! :lol: