Greetings,

Since today is the 57th anniversary of the end of World War II in Europe, I'll celebrate with a history quiz based on the time when World War II effectively ended for Eastern Europe - 1989-90. For this quiz I'm excluding the Soviet Union and post-Soviet states, concentrating on the communist states between the USSR and Western Germany instead. The same country can be an answer for multiple questions:

1. What was the Brezhnev Doctrine?

2. Which country was the first to enjoy the "benefits" of the Brezhnev Doctrine? (Hint: It's the country that inspired the doctrine in the first place.)

3. What was important about the Brezhnev Doctrine in Poland in 1988?

4. In the summer of 1988, János Kádár, the traitor of 1956, was promoted. Why was this a good thing for Hungary?

5. Everyone remembers the collapse of the Berlin Wall, but where did the "Iron Curtain" first crack?

6. This country broke the communist's grip on power through environmental groups' demonstrations and a palace coup in November, 1989, by reformists in the communist party itself. The coup was prompted by a massacre of demonstrating minorities weeks earlier.

7. These three communist hold-out states each banned the distribution of Soviet periodicals like Pravda and Izvestia in mid-1989 because they were "too liberal".

8. In the 1980s, which of all the European communist states was considered the most liberal?

9. Which was the last to get the communists out of power?

10. What communist state angrily denounced the Soviet Union's apology to it in early November, 1989?

11. Another communist state also saw a massacre of its citizens weeks before the communists were ousted from power, and while this also was effectively a palace coup it was far bloodier. Coincidentally, the massacre also had something to do with a minority population.

12. Poland was the first Soviet Bloc country to break the communist stranglehold on the government through a power-sharing agreement in 1988. By August 1989 the communists were booted completely from power and the Dynamic Duo of Tadeusz Mazowiecki (prime minister) and Leszek Balcerowicz (finance minister) were able to do in a few months what the communists had failed to do in 15 years in Poland. What was it?

13. What isolated and extremely orthodox communist state began its divestiture of its communist ideology by allowing the United States and Soviet Union both to open embassies in its capital for the first time in almost 30 years in 1990?

14. What shocking image was the world shown on Christmas Eve, 1989?

15. Which European communist leader died in exile in Chile?

16. On the night of 10. November, 1989, Harold Jaeger had lots of questions but his bosses refused to answer any of them. What did he do?

17. What did the U.S., the U.S.S.R., Britain & France finally get around to doing on 12. September, 1990?

18. By 1990 post-communist Poland had procured the promised withdrawl of all Soviet military forces in the country, but what bizarre twist of events led the Polish government at one point to request they stay?

19. What Nazi German war crime in Poland did Russian President Boris Yeltsin expunge?

20. In December, 1989,, Alexander Dubcek, the new speaker of the assembly, stood on a balcony with the playwrite Vaclav Havel in a moment of deja vu. What was ironic about the moment?

21. What Romanian example prompted the Hungarian post-communist government in early 1990 to begin visiting Munkásörökség (Workers' Militia) members' homes?

Good luck folks -

Interesting quiz ...

Originally posted by Vrylakas
1. What was the Brezhnev Doctrine?


"If enemy forces from outside or inside a socialist state try to overthrow the socialist governement is the duty of others communist countries to help to crush the "counter-revolution".


2. Which country was the first to enjoy the "benefits" of the Brezhnev Doctrine? (Hint: It's the country that inspired the doctrine in the first place.)


Hmmm ... Tchechoslovakia or Hungary, I'm not so sure ( 1968 or 1956 ) ...


3. What was important about the Brezhnev Doctrine in Poland in 1988?


The election was an argument for Gorbatchev to not apply Brezhnev doctrine ?


4. In the summer of 1988, János Kádár, the traitor of 1956, was promoted. Why was this a good thing for Hungary?


I really don't know ... :(


5. Everyone remembers the collapse of the Berlin Wall, but where did the "Iron Curtain" first crack?


1. At Austro-Hungarian border in 1988 - one posibility.
2. When Yugoslavia reject U.S.S.R. absolute control in 1958 - the second.


6. This country broke the communist's grip on power through environmental groups' demonstrations and a palace coup in November, 1989, by reformists in the communist party itself. The coup was prompted by a massacre of demonstrating minorities weeks earlier.


Tchechoslovakia at first part ... but the massacre ??


7. These three communist hold-out states each banned the distribution of Soviet periodicals like Pravda and Izvestia in mid-1989 because they were "too liberal".


Bulgaria, East-Germany and Cuba.


8. In the 1980s, which of all the European communist states was considered the most liberal?


Yugoslavia.


9. Which was the last to get the communists out of power?


1. U.S.S.R. ( if included ).
2. Romania.


10. What communist state angrily denounced the Soviet Union's apology to it in early November, 1989?


Hungary ?


11. Another communist state also saw a massacre of its citizens weeks before the communists were ousted from power, and while this also was effectively a palace coup it was far bloodier. Coincidentally, the massacre also had something to do with a minority population.


Seems to be Romania at first part, but "palace coup" is a exageration ... but probably I'm wrong.


12. Poland was the first Soviet Bloc country to break the communist stranglehold on the government through a power-sharing agreement in 1988. By August 1989 the communists were booted completely from power and the Dynamic Duo of Tadeusz Mazowiecki (prime minister) and Leszek Balcerowicz (finance minister) were able to do in a few months what the communists had failed to do in 15 years in Poland. What was it?


Stopping the inflation ?


13. What isolated and extremely orthodox communist state began its divestiture of its communist ideology by allowing the United States and Soviet Union both to open embassies in its capital for the first time in almost 30 years in 1990?


Albania ?


14. What shocking image was the world shown on Christmas Eve, 1989?


The "trial" and execution of Ceausescu ?


15. Which European communist leader died in exile in Chile?


Honecker ?


16. On the night of 10. November, 1989, Harold Jaeger had lots of questions but his bosses refused to answer any of them. What did he do?


???


17. What did the U.S., the U.S.S.R., Britain & France finally get around to doing on 12. September, 1990?


Recognition of Germany reunification ?


19. What Nazi German war crime in Poland did Russian President Boris Yeltsin expunge?


Katyn forest massacre ?


20. In December, 1989,, Alexander Dubcek, the new speaker of the assembly, stood on a balcony with the playwrite Vaclav Havel in a moment of deja vu. What was ironic about the moment?


The same happened in 1968 ...


21. What Romanian example prompted the Hungarian post-communist government in early 1990 to begin visiting Munkásörökség (Workers' Militia) members' homes?


???

Tough ones ... ;)

Regards

This is mine, all mine! :lol:
Originally posted by Vrylakas
1. What was the Brezhnev Doctrine?It was the declaration that the invasion of Czecheslovakia in 1968 was justified to protect communism in general and the USSR in particular. The doctrine, which held until 1989, was a policy to protect communism from all outside influences and inner resistance to secure Moscow´s power over it´s "partners" of the Warszaw Pact.2. Which country was the first to enjoy the "benefits" of the Brezhnev Doctrine? (Hint: It's the country that inspired the doctrine in the first place.)As stated above, Czecheslovakia in 1968 when Russian tanks and other troops of the Warsaw Pact (including East Germany) suppressed uprisings and demonstations in Prague, the so called "Prague Spring" (not sure about the exact english wording).3. What was important about the Brezhnev Doctrine in Poland in 1988?Hmm, in 1988 Gorbachev renounced the Doctrine, making way for the new developments in Eastern Europe. But before that in the beginning of 1988 the so called Polish Solidarity movement gained power. After some unrest in 1980, after food shortage and strikes at the shipyards, this was the first time the worker unions in Poland stood up to bring change to the government. They expected the USSR to intervene with troops and even executed martial law to counter such an invasion. BUT no troops came and so the reformist movements all over Eastern Europe gained confindence and the change began!4. In the summer of 1988, János Kádár, the traitor of 1956, was promoted. Why was this a good thing for Hungary?Not sure what you mean by promoted. In 1988 the meanwhile senile Janos Kadar was removed from power by younger party members. After there was no intervention in Poland, the reformist groups gained power in Hungary, too. Even communist party members were willing to accept changes which eventually led to free election in 1990.5. Everyone remembers the collapse of the Berlin Wall, but where did the "Iron Curtain" first crack?
Hungary was the first to open it´s borders to Austria, inciting huge streams of "fleeing" people, especially from the GDR. The next country to follow suit was Czecheslovakia.6. This country broke the communist's grip on power through environmental groups' demonstrations and a palace coup in November, 1989, by reformists in the communist party itself. The coup was prompted by a massacre of demonstrating minorities weeks earlier.Again Hungary. Environmental groups opposing some Czech dam project, the demonstrators for the rights of Hungarian minorities in Romania (those who were slaughtered) and the reformists in the party removing Janos Kadar from power.7. These three communist hold-out states each banned the distribution of Soviet periodicals like Pravda and Izvestia in mid-1989 because they were "too liberal".The GDR, Romania definitely and... probably Bulgaria. Not Yugoslavia, since they were the most western-opened country even before that time!8. In the 1980s, which of all the European communist states was considered the most liberal?Uh, oh, I think that differs from ones standpoint. :eek:
Yugoslavia: most open to Westerners, but with strong nationalist movement.
Czecheslovakia: most liberal thoughts, but suppressed after the Prague Spring.
Poland: worker unions, solidarity, but still communism only system.
Hungary: only small movements, but gaining power after 1985.
Bulgaria: not really
GDR, Romania: not at all
not a country but Croatia probably had the strongest movement for it´s population.
So, from a western standpoint I´d say Hungary or Czecheslovakia.
From a normal Western citizen, probably Yugoslavia, since they made vacation there. ;)
From an eastern standpoint I´d say Poland.9. Which was the last to get the communists out of power?Hmm, also not clear! :p
The last country to have "free" elections was Albania in 1991. BUT in that vote the communist party still got over 50% and stayed in power.
In Romania Iliescu (sp?) won the first election with almost 90%. He is also a former communist.
So asked after free elections: Albania.
(Ex-)Communists still in power: probably Romania or Bulgaria.10. What communist state angrily denounced the Soviet Union's apology to it in early November, 1989?Probably Czecheslovakia.11. Another communist state also saw a massacre of its citizens weeks before the communists were ousted from power, and while this also was effectively a palace coup it was far bloodier. Coincidentally, the massacre also had something to do with a minority population.Again Hungary, see above.
You are repeating yourself! ;)12. Poland was the first Soviet Bloc country to break the communist stranglehold on the government through a power-sharing agreement in 1988. By August 1989 the communists were booted completely from power and the Dynamic Duo of Tadeusz Mazowiecki (prime minister) and Leszek Balcerowicz (finance minister) were able to do in a few months what the communists had failed to do in 15 years in Poland. What was it?They sat together with catholic church represantatives, communists, union members, etc. on a so called "round table" and agreed after extensive discussions on free elections in June 1989, were the Solidarity party (Solidarnosc) won the majority immediatly. The communist party was effectively out of power. Another important figure in these developments was Pope Johannes Paul II.13. What isolated and extremely orthodox communist state began its divestiture of its communist ideology by allowing the United States and Soviet Union both to open embassies in its capital for the first time in almost 30 years in 1990?Hmm, Cuba?14. What shocking image was the world shown on Christmas Eve, 1989?The execution of Romania´s more or less dictator Ceaucescu (sp?) and his wife.15. Which European communist leader died in exile in Chile?My beloved master and leader, Erich Honnecker! j/k :lol:
His wife still lives in Chile.16. On the night of 10. November, 1989, Harold Jaeger had lots of questions but his bosses refused to answer any of them. What did he do?Never heard of him. :crazyeye:
But since he sounds like a German I think he could be one of the persons involved in Günter Schabowski´s announcement on the evening of that day. He was the one to declare the opening of the inner-German borders WITHOUT the knowledge or the consent of the party members.
So Harold Jaeger could be the person who asked the Politbüro members what to do and after receiving no answers, told Schabowski to make his announcement.
But IIRC that announcement was made a day before that, on the 9th.
Maybe Jaeger asked for shooting permission or such.17. What did the U.S., the U.S.S.R., Britain & France finally get around to doing on 12. September, 1990?They finally agreed to the reuniting of Germany. Most of the discussion work was done by our German foreign minister, Hans-Dietrich Genscher, talking with Madame Thatcher, President Bush, Francois Mitterand and Gorbachev18. By 1990 post-communist Poland had procured the promised withdrawl of all Soviet military forces in the country, but what bizarre twist of events led the Polish government at one point to request they stay?Probably their fear for a new German invasion after the reunification of Germany. :rolleyes:19. What Nazi German war crime in Poland did Russian President Boris Yeltsin expunge??
There were many Nazi and Russian war crimes in Poland, especially the concentration camp, e.g. in Auschwitz, and the Jewish slums in Warsaw.20. In December, 1989,, Alexander Dubcek, the new speaker of the assembly, stood on a balcony with the playwrite Vaclav Havel in a moment of deja vu. What was ironic about the moment?Vaclav Havel became the new President then. But several years earlier, when he stood at that balcony to oppose the Communist regime, he was put into jail!21. What Romanian example prompted the Hungarian post-communist government in early 1990 to begin visiting Munkásörökség (Workers' Militia) members' homes?Once again, probably the execution of Ceaucescu.

Wow, that was long!
:D

EDIT: GRRR, beaten by a few mere minutes. My explanations are far longer. :mad:

Hehe. :)

5. Everyone remembers the collapse of the Berlin Wall, but where did the "Iron Curtain" first crack?Hungary?

8. In the 1980s, which of all the European communist states was considered the most liberal?Hungary?

11. Another communist state also saw a massacre of its citizens weeks before the communists were ousted from power, and while this also was effectively a palace coup it was far bloodier. Coincidentally, the massacre also had something to do with a minority population.Romania?

12. Poland was the first Soviet Bloc country to break the communist stranglehold on the government through a power-sharing agreement in 1988. By August 1989 the communists were booted completely from power and the Dynamic Duo of Tadeusz Mazowiecki (prime minister) and Leszek Balcerowicz (finance minister) were able to do in a few months what the communists had failed to do in 15 years in Poland. What was it?Balanced the budget? Not likely. :)

13. What isolated and extremely orthodox communist state began its divestiture of its communist ideology by allowing the United States and Soviet Union both to open embassies in its capital for the first time in almost 30 years in 1990?Albania?

17. What did the U.S., the U.S.S.R., Britain & France finally get around to doing on 12. September, 1990?Formally made peace with a reunified Germany?

20. In December, 1989,, Alexander Dubcek, the new speaker of the assembly, stood on a balcony with the playwrite Vaclav Havel in a moment of deja vu. What was ironic about the moment?Dubcek or Havel or both were involved in the earlier Prague Spring in the 60s.

For the interested, a translation of Brezhnev's justification for his Doctrine is available here (http://www.fordham.edu/halsall/mod/1968brezhnev.html)

Originally posted by Vrylakas
[B]8. In the 1980s, which of all the European communist states was considered the most liberal?
Yugoslavia
Originally posted by Vrylakas
9. Which was the last to get the communists out of power?
Albania
Originally posted by Vrylakas
11. Another communist state also saw a massacre of its citizens weeks before the communists were ousted from power, and while this also was effectively a palace coup it was far bloodier. Coincidentally, the massacre also had something to do with a minority population.
Blood! Guts! Rolling heads! Flattened towns! Sounds a lot like Romania...
Originally posted by Vrylakas
12. Poland was the first Soviet Bloc country to break the communist stranglehold on the government through a power-sharing agreement in 1988. By August 1989 the communists were booted completely from power and the Dynamic Duo of Tadeusz Mazowiecki (prime minister) and Leszek Balcerowicz (finance minister) were able to do in a few months what the communists had failed to do in 15 years in Poland. What was it?
Discussions with other interest groups - church/labor/?
Originally posted by Vrylakas
13. What isolated and extremely orthodox communist state began its divestiture of its communist ideology by allowing the United States and Soviet Union both to open embassies in its capital for the first time in almost 30 years in 1990?
Albania
Originally posted by Vrylakas
14. What shocking image was the world shown on Christmas Eve, 1989?
Ceaucescu met his maker
Originally posted by Vrylakas
16. On the night of 10. November, 1989, Harold Jaeger had lots of questions but his bosses refused to answer any of them. What did he do?
Some german border related issue...
Originally posted by Vrylakas
20. In December, 1989,, Alexander Dubcek, the new speaker of the assembly, stood on a balcony with the playwrite Vaclav Havel in a moment of deja vu. What was ironic about the moment?
Havel was made president; He had been in jail previously for opposing the commies.

Mîtiu Ioan wrote:

Re: End of Communism in Eastern Europe Quiz

Interesting quiz ...

I got tired of reading last night, the wife fell asleep, and here's the result...

quote:
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Originally posted by Vrylakas
1. What was the Brezhnev Doctrine?
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"If enemy forces from outside or inside a socialist state try to overthrow the socialist governement is the duty of others communist countries to help to crush the "counter-revolution".

Yes! In other words, the Soviet Bloc was one of those clubs you join but can never leave...

quote:
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2. Which country was the first to enjoy the "benefits" of the Brezhnev Doctrine? (Hint: It's the country that inspired the doctrine in the first place.)
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Hmmm ... Tchechoslovakia or Hungary, I'm not so sure ( 1968 or 1956 ) ...

Yes - Czechoslovakia 1968.

quote:
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3. What was important about the Brezhnev Doctrine in Poland in 1988?
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The election was an argument for Gorbatchev to not apply Brezhnev doctrine ?

You just about got it. It was before the elections when the Solidarity strikes started again over food price increases, and Gorbachov told Jaruzelski (Polish communist leader) that he could expect no Soviet help; the Brezhnev Doctrine was effectively dead.

quote:
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4. In the summer of 1988, János Kádár, the traitor of 1956, was promoted. Why was this a good thing for Hungary?
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I really don't know ...

It was better than getting shot...

quote:
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5. Everyone remembers the collapse of the Berlin Wall, but where did the "Iron Curtain" first crack?
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1. At Austro-Hungarian border in 1988 - one posibility.
2. When Yugoslavia reject U.S.S.R. absolute control in 1958 - the second.

The first one was right. The Yugoslav conflict merely moved the Iron Curtain eastward, but Hungary in 1989 physically took down all the barbed wire and lifted the landmines, blowing a gaping hole in it.

quote:
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6. This country broke the communist's grip on power through environmental groups' demonstrations and a palace coup in November, 1989, by reformists in the communist party itself. The coup was prompted by a massacre of demonstrating minorities weeks earlier.
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Tchechoslovakia at first part ... but the massacre ??

No. Wrong country.

quote:
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7. These three communist hold-out states each banned the distribution of Soviet periodicals like Pravda and Izvestia in mid-1989 because they were "too liberal".
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Bulgaria, East-Germany and Cuba.

1 of 3: East Germany was correct.

quote:
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8. In the 1980s, which of all the European communist states was considered the most liberal?
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Yugoslavia.

As Lucky brings up this is open to interpretation but yes, this is the country I was refering to.

quote:
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9. Which was the last to get the communists out of power?
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1. U.S.S.R. ( if included ).
2. Romania.

I excluded the USSR in my intro, and again this is more a matter of interpretation - but I didn't mean Romania.

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10. What communist state angrily denounced the Soviet Union's apology to it in early November, 1989?
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Hungary?

No - but geographically close.

quote:
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11. Another communist state also saw a massacre of its citizens weeks before the communists were ousted from power, and while this also was effectively a palace coup it was far bloodier. Coincidentally, the massacre also had something to do with a minority population.
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Seems to be Romania at first part, but "palace coup" is a exageration ... but probably I'm wrong.

Actually, you're correct. Maybe my use of the term "palace coup" is up for debate, but I think it's widely accepted now that the Romanian Revolution of December 1989 was not a spontaneous uprising but rather an orchestrated revolt by lower communist ranks (Illiescu, etc.) against the tyrant. The minority connection of course that spurred the massacre in Timisoara was the attempted arrest of the Hungarian Reformist priest Tökés László. BTW, I spent a week in Arad (with trips to Timisoara and Bucuresti) the week after the Revolution.

quote:
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12. Poland was the first Soviet Bloc country to break the communist stranglehold on the government through a power-sharing agreement in 1988. By August 1989 the communists were booted completely from power and the Dynamic Duo of Tadeusz Mazowiecki (prime minister) and Leszek Balcerowicz (finance minister) were able to do in a few months what the communists had failed to do in 15 years in Poland. What was it?
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Stopping the inflation?

Very close. It may be that this question is a bit too Polish-specific, but it deals with a phenomenon that plagued Poland from about 1976 until 1989, one that people saw on their news shows each night around the world. I still have people ask me if Poles still have to do this (while my 18 year-old sisters-in-law in Poland today have no memories of these things).

quote:
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13. What isolated and extremely orthodox communist state began its divestiture of its communist ideology by allowing the United States and Soviet Union both to open embassies in its capital for the first time in almost 30 years in 1990?
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Albania ?

Yes! Albania broke relations with the USSR in 1961 over Moscow's plans to station missiles in Albania aimed at the Mediterranean countries, and the Albanians had broke relations with Washington long before. They tried being Chinese allies for a few years in the 1960s but opted by 1969 for complete isolation.

quote:
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14. What shocking image was the world shown on Christmas Eve, 1989?
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The "trial" and execution of Ceausescu?

I wonder how you knew this one...? That image of his drained face lying on the ground is burned into my memory forever.

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15. Which European communist leader died in exile in Chile?
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Honecker ?

Yes!

quote:
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16. On the night of 10. November, 1989, Harold Jaeger had lots of questions but his bosses refused to answer any of them. What did he do?
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???

Lucky came close.

quote:
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17. What did the U.S., the U.S.S.R., Britain & France finally get around to doing on 12. September, 1990?
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Recognition of Germany reunification ?

Kinda sorta. These four countries did something long overdue in order to facilitate German reunification.

quote:
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19. What Nazi German war crime in Poland did Russian President Boris Yeltsin expunge?
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Katyn forest massacre ?

Yes! The Russians admitted that the Soviet NKVD, not the Nazis, had murdered the 14,000 Polish officers held in the 3 POW camps near Katyn. For decades communist Polish textbooks propogated the lie that the Nazis had committed this crime - not that the Nazis were exactly innocent in Poland - but Yeltsin confirmed what everyone already knew.

quote:
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20. In December, 1989,, Alexander Dubcek, the new speaker of the assembly, stood on a balcony with the playwrite Vaclav Havel in a moment of deja vu. What was ironic about the moment?
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The same happened in 1968 ...

Yes!

quote:
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21. What Romanian example prompted the Hungarian post-communist government in early 1990 to begin visiting Munkásörökség (Workers' Militia) members' homes?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

???

I thought you'd get this one, Ioan!

Good run though!

I'll catch everyone else this evening; my lunch just ended....

Lucky wrote:

This is mine, all mine!

Go to it, Man!

1.
It was the declaration that the invasion of Czecheslovakia in 1968 was justified to protect communism in general and the USSR in particular. The doctrine, which held until 1989, was a policy to protect communism from all outside influences and inner resistance to secure Moscow´s power over it´s "partners" of the Warszaw Pact.

Yes! "Partners"...

2.
As stated above, Czecheslovakia in 1968 when Russian tanks and other troops of the Warsaw Pact (including East Germany) suppressed uprisings and demonstations in Prague, the so called "Prague Spring" (not sure about the exact english wording).
quote:

Yes! And it is also called the Prague Spring in English.

3.

Hmm, in 1988 Gorbachev renounced the Doctrine, making way for the new developments in Eastern Europe. But before that in the beginning of 1988 the so called Polish Solidarity movement gained power. After some unrest in 1980, after food shortage and strikes at the shipyards, this was the first time the worker unions in Poland stood up to bring change to the government. They expected the USSR to intervene with troops and even executed martial law to counter such an invasion. BUT no troops came and so the reformist movements all over Eastern Europe gained confindence and the change began!

Yes! That's exactly it, that Gorbachov told Jaruzelski that Soviet troops wouldn't intervene, that he had to find a solution with Solidarity on his own. The Brezhnev Doctrine was dead!

4.

Not sure what you mean by promoted. In 1988 the meanwhile senile Janos Kadar was removed from power by younger party members. After there was no intervention in Poland, the reformist groups gained power in Hungary, too. Even communist party members were willing to accept changes which eventually led to free election in 1990.

You've got the gist. The American expression is "kicked upstairs". Kádár was "promoted" to a new party ceremonial post, effectively removing him from power but in such a way that it looked like it was honor.

5.

Hungary was the first to open it´s borders to Austria, inciting huge streams of "fleeing" people, especially from the GDR. The next country to follow suit was Czecheslovakia.

Yes! East Berlin and Prague were furious when the Hungarians decided to let the East German refugees continue westward.

6.

Again Hungary. Environmental groups opposing some Czech dam project, the demonstrators for the rights of Hungarian minorities in Romania (those who were slaughtered) and the reformists in the party removing Janos Kadar from power.

No, wrong on this one. You're confusing the dam project, which although a communist-designed mess didn't really hit any strong resistance in Hungary until the early 1990s. The Hungarian government finally cancelled the project but a Hague Court ruling brought by a suit filed by the Slovaks forced the Hungarians to continue.

The country in my question had its first organized opposition form around environmental groups who crystalized after a UN report declared some of the country's northern border villages to be among the most polluted areas in Europe.

7.

The GDR, Romania definitely and... probably Bulgaria. Not Yugoslavia, since they were the most western-opened country even before that time!

2 out of 3! The GDR and Romania, yes - and who else? Remember Honecker's public refusal during Gorbachov's visit to allow the Soviet periodicals in? East Berlin had a particular ally through most of 1989, and both fell from power in the same month...

8.

Uh, oh, I think that differs from ones standpoint.
Yugoslavia: most open to Westerners, but with strong nationalist movement.
Czecheslovakia: most liberal thoughts, but suppressed after the Prague Spring.
Poland: worker unions, solidarity, but still communism only system.
Hungary: only small movements, but gaining power after 1985.
Bulgaria: not really
GDR, Romania: not at all
not a country but Croatia probably had the strongest movement for it´s population.
So, from a western standpoint I´d say Hungary or Czecheslovakia.
From a normal Western citizen, probably Yugoslavia, since they made vacation there.
From an eastern standpoint I´d say Poland.

Yugoslavia in the 1980s was seen as the most open, both in the West and the east. Poland spent much of the 1980s under various levels of martial law and economic collapse, Czechoslovakia was among the most repressive, and Romania and East Germany certainly were never "liberal".

9.

Hmm, also not clear!
The last country to have "free" elections was Albania in 1991. BUT in that vote the communist party still got over 50% and stayed in power.
In Romania Iliescu (sp?) won the first election with almost 90%. He is also a former communist.
So asked after free elections: Albania.
(Ex-)Communists still in power: probably Romania or Bulgaria.

No, no, no, no. One you didn't mention...

10.

Probably Czecheslovakia.

Yes! Gustav Husak angrily denounced Gorbachov's apology for the 1968 Warsaw Pact invasion - the very invasion that brought Husak to power!

11.

Again Hungary, see above.
You are repeating yourself!

No, I'm not. You're wrong on this one.

12.

They sat together with catholic church represantatives, communists, union members, etc. on a so called "round table" and agreed after extensive discussions on free elections in June 1989, were the Solidarity party (Solidarnosc) won the majority immediatly. The communist party was effectively out of power. Another important figure in these developments was Pope Johannes Paul II.

I'm suspecting this question may be a bit too time-bound. If you were alive in the 1980s you would have seen many images in the news of this phenomenon (that I'm looking for) in Poland, a sad one to be sure.

13.

Hmm, Cuba?

No - in Europe.

14.

The execution of Romania´s more or less dictator Ceaucescu (sp?) and his wife.

Yes, a ghastly event (if necessary).

15.

My beloved master and leader, Erich Honnecker! j/k
His wife still lives in Chile.

Do you send her Christmas cards each year? ;)

16.

Never heard of him.
But since he sounds like a German I think he could be one of the persons involved in Günter Schabowski´s announcement on the evening of that day. He was the one to declare the opening of the inner-German borders WITHOUT the knowledge or the consent of the party members.
So Harold Jaeger could be the person who asked the Politbüro members what to do and after receiving no answers, told Schabowski to make his announcement.
But IIRC that announcement was made a day before that, on the 9th.
Maybe Jaeger asked for shooting permission or such.

Opposite end of things, but you have the idea. Jaeger was the deputy commander of the border crossing at Bornhelmstrasse, reporting to Schabowski. Jaeger supposedly gave up and independently told the mass standing at his crossing that he wouldn't check any visas. A few trickled through at first, and then a surge...

17.

They finally agreed to the reuniting of Germany. Most of the discussion work was done by our German foreign minister, Hans-Dietrich Genscher, talking with Madame Thatcher, President Bush, Francois Mitterand and Gorbachev

They were meeting to do something that facilitated the reunification of Germany - but that alone wasn't it.

18.

Probably their fear for a new German invasion after the reunification of Germany.

Kinda sorta. Kohl was visiting Poland when a reporter asked him, in passing, what his position on he Polish-German border was. The answer was assumed to be a no-brainer (considering the Brandt agreements), but Kohl answered something to the effect of "Well, we'll see." He was prodded on what he meant, but Kohl kept saying things like, "I don't want to make any decision now." Obviously he was panning to German [voters] expelees from Pomerania, Silesia and Eastern Prussia but he picked an idiotic moment and place to play local politics. The Polish press went wild, and this is when the Poles hurredly asked the withdrawing Soviets to slow down. As I recall even the U.S. rebuked Kohl over his stupid statements, and he "clarified" what he meant...

19.

?

Hint: Red Cross, 1943.

There were many Nazi and Russian war crimes in Poland, especially the concentration camp, e.g. in Auschwitz, and the Jewish slums in Warsaw.

20.

Vaclav Havel became the new President then. But several years earlier, when he stood at that balcony to oppose the Communist regime, he was put into jail!

Yes!

21.

Once again, probably the execution of Ceaucescu.

No. Something else...

Wow, that was long!

I'm not known in these forums for my brevity... I had to snip some to fit this in the post!

Great job Lucky!

K-D wrote:

Hehe.

Always like to keep 'em satisfied.

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
5. Everyone remembers the collapse of the Berlin Wall, but where did the "Iron Curtain" first crack?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Hungary?

Yes!

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
8. In the 1980s, which of all the European communist states was considered the most liberal?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Hungary?

No - one was considered even more liberal.

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
11. Another communist state also saw a massacre of its citizens weeks before the communists were ousted from power, and while this also was effectively a palace coup it was far bloodier. Coincidentally, the massacre also had something to do with a minority population.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Romania?

Yes! The Romanian Revolution stemmed from a reaction to the security forces' (and army's) massacre of demonstrating civilians in Timisoara (who were protesting the attempted arrest of a minority priest earlier in the day). A popular uprising, either fueling or inspired by the mass protests, that eventually overthrew Ceausescu.

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
12. Poland was the first Soviet Bloc country to break the communist stranglehold on the government through a power-sharing agreement in 1988. By August 1989 the communists were booted completely from power and the Dynamic Duo of Tadeusz Mazowiecki (prime minister) and Leszek Balcerowicz (finance minister) were able to do in a few months what the communists had failed to do in 15 years in Poland. What was it?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Balanced the budget? Not likely.

:lol: Balance the budget! In Poland! :lol:

Just kidding K-D; you're actually much closer than anyone else but not quite. It's got something to do with lines...

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
13. What isolated and extremely orthodox communist state began its divestiture of its communist ideology by allowing the United States and Soviet Union both to open embassies in its capital for the first time in almost 30 years in 1990?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Albania?

Yes!

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
17. What did the U.S., the U.S.S.R., Britain & France finally get around to doing on 12. September, 1990?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Formally made peace with a reunified Germany?

Yes! The Four Major Allies finally signed a treaty that formally ended World War II, allowing Germany to reunite. Until 1990, West and East Germany still had the technical status of "occupied power", with the 4 Allies having special military and political perogatives.

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
20. In December, 1989,, Alexander Dubcek, the new speaker of the assembly, stood on a balcony with the playwrite Vaclav Havel in a moment of deja vu. What was ironic about the moment?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Dubcek or Havel or both were involved in the earlier Prague Spring in the 60s.

Yes!

As usual, a good run K-D!

Wild Weasel wrote:

For the interested, a translation of Brezhnev's justification for his Doctrine is available [u]here[/i].

Thanks, WW!

Jak sie masz?

Dziekuje, nie za zle. Ty?

Sodak wrote:

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by Vrylakas
8. In the 1980s, which of all the European communist states was considered the most liberal?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

[b]Yugoslavia

Yes!

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by Vrylakas
9. Which was the last to get the communists out of power?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Albania

No. Although this one is open to some interpretation...

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by Vrylakas
11. Another communist state also saw a massacre of its citizens weeks before the communists were ousted from power, and while this also was effectively a palace coup it was far bloodier. Coincidentally, the massacre also had something to do with a minority population.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Blood! Guts! Rolling heads! Flattened towns! Sounds a lot like Romania...

Ooohhh, Ioan isn't going to like this... Yes! Yer right.

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by Vrylakas
12. Poland was the first Soviet Bloc country to break the communist stranglehold on the government through a power-sharing agreement in 1988. By August 1989 the communists were booted completely from power and the Dynamic Duo of Tadeusz Mazowiecki (prime minister) and Leszek Balcerowicz (finance minister) were able to do in a few months what the communists had failed to do in 15 years in Poland. What was it?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Discussions with other interest groups - church/labor/?

Hmmm, that also happened back in 80/81. No, it had something to do with lines... I guess I was too vague in the question, because everyone's answers are in the same direction.

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by Vrylakas
13. What isolated and extremely orthodox communist state began its divestiture of its communist ideology by allowing the United States and Soviet Union both to open embassies in its capital for the first time in almost 30 years in 1990?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Albania

Yes!

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by Vrylakas
14. What shocking image was the world shown on Christmas Eve, 1989?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Ceaucescu met his maker

And what a sweet moment it was. Yes!

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by Vrylakas
16. On the night of 10. November, 1989, Harold Jaeger had lots of questions but his bosses refused to answer any of them. What did he do?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Some german border related issue...

Yup. Elaborate?

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by Vrylakas
20. In December, 1989,, Alexander Dubcek, the new speaker of the assembly, stood on a balcony with the playwrite Vaclav Havel in a moment of deja vu. What was ironic about the moment?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Havel was made president; He had been in jail previously for opposing the commies.

Yes - Dubcek had led the 1968 Prague Spring, while Havel had been a founding member of "Karta '77" - and there they were suddenly(again for Dubcek) as leaders of a post-comunist Czechoslovakia.

Great run Sodak!

12. Poland was the first Soviet Bloc country to break the communist stranglehold on the government through a power-sharing agreement in 1988. By August 1989 the communists were booted completely from power and the Dynamic Duo of Tadeusz Mazowiecki (prime minister) and Leszek Balcerowicz (finance minister) were able to do in a few months what the communists had failed to do in 15 years in Poland. What was it?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Balanced the budget? Not likely.

:lol: Balance the budget! In Poland! :lol:

Just kidding K-D; you're actually much closer than anyone else but not quite. It's got something to do with lines...Something to do with shortening the food handout lines? They managed to get around to putting/buying enough food on/for everyone's tables?

Originally posted by Vrylakas
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
6. This country broke the communist's grip on power through environmental groups' demonstrations and a palace coup in November, 1989, by reformists in the communist party itself. The coup was prompted by a massacre of demonstrating minorities weeks earlier.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Tchechoslovakia at first part ... but the massacre ??

No. Wrong country.


Yugoslavia then - and the massacre is probably the Kossovo incidents ...


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
7. These three communist hold-out states each banned the distribution of Soviet periodicals like Pravda and Izvestia in mid-1989 because they were "too liberal".
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Bulgaria, East-Germany and Cuba.

1 of 3: East Germany was correct.


I see that you agree that Romania was one of this. IMHO this is not true and look why :

- the people how know russian language in Romania is a very small minority ( even until 1965 the russian language was compulsory in schools as one of two foreign language studied - my mom study russian at school 7 years, 3 hours at week and know almost nothing ). The true is that romanians feeling are strong anti-russians ( it's a fact, nothing else ) ...
- until 1987 the French newspaper and periodicals was very popular in Romania, even that the price was a litle bit prohibitive - belive my - I had from those times a collection of almost 250 number of child-magazine Pif and Rahan, and my mom had a collection of 100 Paris Match and L'Humanite magazine - and this is not an rare exception. In '87 or '86 Ceausescu stop the distribution of this magazine for two reasons :
a) stop the pro-Gorbatchev reformist propaganda, reflected in this magazines;
b) the cost of subventions for this magazines.
- if there was some russians magazines which had a influence in Romania this was magazines edited in foreign languages - like Sputnik for example. Again - until december 1989 this magazines was available in Romania ( even in small number ).
- anyway the impact of Radio Free Europe was the most important mediatic support again communist regime.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
9. Which was the last to get the communists out of power?
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

1. U.S.S.R. ( if included ).
2. Romania.

I excluded the USSR in my intro, and again this is more a matter of interpretation - but I didn't mean Romania.


Bulgaria or Albania then ...


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
11. Another communist state also saw a massacre of its citizens weeks before the communists were ousted from power, and while this also was effectively a palace coup it was far bloodier. Coincidentally, the massacre also had something to do with a minority population.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Seems to be Romania at first part, but "palace coup" is a exageration ... but probably I'm wrong.

Actually, you're correct. Maybe my use of the term "palace coup" is up for debate, but I think it's widely accepted now that the Romanian Revolution of December 1989 was not a spontaneous uprising but rather an orchestrated revolt by lower communist ranks (Illiescu, etc.) against the tyrant. The minority connection of course that spurred the massacre in Timisoara was the attempted arrest of the Hungarian Reformist priest Tökés László. BTW, I spent a week in Arad (with trips to Timisoara and Bucuresti) the week after the Revolution.


Here are in fact some kind of legends ...
1. The number of deads and the moment of this. Until 22 of december ( overthrone of Ceausescu ) there was around 120-140 people killed - most of them in Timisoara ( ~70 ). So the term "massacre" is a exageration - strong represion is more correct ( of course this is not an excuse for Ceausescu, but a reality ).
The strange fact is that in the days between 22 and 25 ( sumar execution of Ceausescu ) the number of dead was significan higher - around 900 pleope was killed !! Many of them because confusion, incompetence of some military leaders, but also because of actions of some still unknown "terorists brigades". Who was this "terorists" ? Special units from Romania ? Soviets commandos ? Both ? Nobody really know ...
2. The theory of complot - of course there was precedentely tries to change the system or their leaders. But the structure of power created in 22 of december was an amalgam of military high-commanders, ex-communist from second "echelon", representants from industry and some cultural "disidents".
In few week the raport of forces inside this structure had evolved - the military consider that "state-of-emergency" had ended and retreat and the cultural-dissidents was unable to propose something viable for economy ( for example ) and was put on dead line.
Of course Iliescu and P. Roman ( first prime-minister ) was communists - even with some ranks - but also was 3.5 millions of citizens !! In fact was almost impossible to find a experienced and competent person who wasn't member of Communist Party in 1989 - because the acces to a higher function was conditioned about join to Communist Party !! And also in some university ( studying Law for example ) almost 90% of students was formally member of Communist Party or Communist Youth Organisation !!
3. In 1989 Romania was like a bomb which needed only a "spark" to explode. So probably any manifestation which resist long than 1-2 day will start a revolt. If there was a "dark conspiracy" this was the point ... ;)


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
12. Poland was the first Soviet Bloc country to break the communist stranglehold on the government through a power-sharing agreement in 1988. By August 1989 the communists were booted completely from power and the Dynamic Duo of Tadeusz Mazowiecki (prime minister) and Leszek Balcerowicz (finance minister) were able to do in a few months what the communists had failed to do in 15 years in Poland. What was it?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Stopping the inflation?

Very close. It may be that this question is a bit too Polish-specific, but it deals with a phenomenon that plagued Poland from about 1976 until 1989, one that people saw on their news shows each night around the world. I still have people ask me if Poles still have to do this (while my 18 year-old sisters-in-law in Poland today have no memories of these things).


Then probably existance of two sort of stores and two "paralel" markets : one in national currency - zlots - and one in free-convertible money ...

Regards

Originally posted by Vrylakas

The "trial" and execution of Ceausescu?

I wonder how you knew this one...? That image of his drained face lying on the ground is burned into my memory forever.



Even I remember that! Although I was just under 6 years old then...

Most already answered, one thing struck me:

Originally posted by Vrykalas
9. Which was the last to get the communists out of power?

That could be Yugoslavia, if you see Milosevic (after 1991) as a communist. Which is questionable.

K-D wrote:

Balance the budget! In Poland!

Just kidding K-D; you're actually much closer than anyone else but not quite. It's got something to do with lines...
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Something to do with shortening the food handout lines? They managed to get around to putting/buying enough food on/for everyone's tables?

Bingo! In a few months Mazowiecki and Balcerowicz managed to get food on the shelves, a critical achievment in 1989. When I worked at the Polish government press agency in 1990 (PAP), as part of my salary I got each month: 2 bars of soap, 2 rolls of toilet paper, and two large bags of tea. These were "perks" that I as a government worker received, though by 1990 these things were freely available in shops. From the days of the incompetent and corrupt Edward Gierek in the mid 1970s until 1989, Poles had to stand in long lines for basic food and living necessities. It was a profound indictment of the communist system when, after just a few months, the post-communist government was able to solve the supply problem that had dogged the country for almost two decades.

Good shot K-D!

Mîtiu Ioan wrote:

Second round ... ;)

6.
Tchechoslovakia at first part ... but the massacre ??

No. Wrong country.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Yugoslavia then - and the massacre is probably the Kossovo incidents ...

No, much earlier Ioan. As a hint, the minority was wrongly called by the communist government in question "Pomaks". Does that help?

7.

Bulgaria, East-Germany and Cuba.

1 of 3: East Germany was correct.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I see that you agree that Romania was one of this. IMHO this is not true and look why

- the people how know russian language in Romania is a very small minority

Yes, you are right that Ceausescu was one of the three who banned these periodicals. However:

Most Soviet periodicals were translated into the Soviet Bloc languages, and the dailies like Pravda were at least translated into German, French, etc. They were still accessible to Romanians, linguistically. Also, even when only in Russian, their content would be cross-referenced by Romanian journals - a practice Ceausescu put a quick stop to.

(I'm sorry I had to snip much of your statement here because of space reasons.)

b) the cost of subventions for this magazines.
- if there was some russians magazines which had a influence in Romania this was magazines edited in foreign languages - like Sputnik for example.

I remember Sputnik! It was amazing to see a Soviet publication with all those color pictures.

Again - until december 1989 this magazines was available in Romania ( even in small number ).

Perhaps. I do remember reading in Poland that these publications were banned almost simultaneously by East Germany, Romania, and the third country that no one has mentioned yet, in 1989.

9.

1. U.S.S.R. ( if included ).
2. Romania.

I excluded the USSR in my intro, and again this is more a matter of interpretation - but I didn't mean Romania.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

[b]Bulgaria or Albania then ...

Nu.

11.

Seems to be Romania at first part, but "palace coup" is a exageration ... but probably I'm wrong.

Actually, you're correct. Maybe my use of the term "palace coup" is up for debate, but I think it's widely accepted now that the Romanian Revolution of December 1989 was not a spontaneous uprising but rather an orchestrated revolt by lower communist ranks (Illiescu, etc.) against the tyrant. The minority connection of course that spurred the massacre in Timisoara was the attempted arrest of the Hungarian Reformist priest Tökés László. BTW, I spent a week in Arad (with trips to Timisoara and Bucuresti) the week after the Revolution.

Here are in fact some kind of legends ...
1. The number of deads and the moment of this. Until 22 of december ( overthrone of Ceausescu ) there was around 120-140 people killed - most of them in Timisoara ( ~70 ). So the term "massacre" is a exageration - strong represion is more correct ( of course this is not an excuse for Ceausescu, but a reality ).

120-140 people killed sounds like a good massacre to me. I know that back when it happened the reports were highly exaggerated. When I came to the main square where the massacre took place in Timisoara a couple of weeks after it happened, some woman told me that two thousand had been killed. It's natural that numbers would be initially inflated.

The strange fact is that in the days between 22 and 25 ( sumar execution of Ceausescu ) the number of dead was significan higher - around 900 pleope was killed !! Many of them because confusion, incompetence of some military leaders, but also because of actions of some still unknown "terorists brigades". Who was this "terorists" ? Special units from Romania ? Soviets commandos ? Both ? Nobody really know ...

Lots of confusion - nothing surprising. I recall hearing news reports from the Hungarian media at one point that teh Soviets had invaded.

2. The theory of complot - of course there was precedentely tries to change the system or their leaders. But the structure of power created in 22 of december was an amalgam of military high-commanders, ex-communist from second "echelon", representants from industry and some cultural "disidents".
In few week the raport of forces inside this structure had evolved - the military consider that "state-of-emergency" had ended and retreat and the cultural-dissidents was unable to propose something viable for economy ( for example ) and was put on dead line.
Of course Iliescu and P. Roman ( first prime-minister ) was communists - even with some ranks - but also was 3.5 millions of citizens !! In fact was almost impossible to find a experienced and competent person who wasn't member of Communist Party in 1989 - because the acces to a higher function was conditioned about join to Communist Party !! And also in some university ( studying Law for example ) almost 90% of students was formally member of Communist Party or Communist Youth Organisation !!

This situation was normal in all the communist societies. getting anywhere required being a member of the Party. I had many friends who were party members, and my wife's family similarly. The belief that Illiescu and Roman (and others) orchestrated Ceausescu's downfall when the opportunity arose sounds very plausible from the evidence I've heard. It wasn't a communist party conspiracy so much as several rats on a sinking ship tossing some dead weight (Ceausescu) overboard. As your point #3 says below, they realized that things couldn't continue unchanged, but Ceausescu would never allow them to change - and that might result in a situation like Budapest 1956, where anybody even vaguely associated with the Party was jung by a lamppost.

3. In 1989 Romania was like a bomb which needed only a "spark" to explode. So probably any manifestation which resist long than 1-2 day will start a revolt. If there was a "dark conspiracy" this was the point ...

Yup.

12.

Stopping the inflation?

Very close. It may be that this question is a bit too Polish-specific, but it deals with a phenomenon that plagued Poland from about 1976 until 1989, one that people saw on their news shows each night around the world. I still have people ask me if Poles still have to do this (while my 18 year-old sisters-in-law in Poland today have no memories of these things).

Then probably existance of two sort of stores and two "paralel" markets : one in national currency - zlots - and one in free-convertible money ...

They also achieved that by late-1990. I went back to Hungary on New Years' day 1991 and was stunned as I walked past a waluta window and saw I could change my zlotys for USD. I did so for better convenience in Hungary, and what a good feeling that was! But ultimately, no, that happened in 1991 and my question deals with 1989.

Good run Ioan! Here's a bad quality picture I took of the main square in Timisoara the last week of December 1989:

Hitro wrote:

Most already answered, one thing struck me:

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by Vrykalas
9. Which was the last to get the communists out of power?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

That could be Yugoslavia, if you see Milosevic (after 1991) as a communist. Which is questionable.

Very questionable indeed, but the correct answer nonetheless. Milosevic & crew retained power in Yugoslavia, cosmetically changing names and focus from international proletariat to Serbian nationalism, but the fact remains the same party was in power in 1999 that had been in power since 1946. When did they stop being "communist"? In 1980 when Tito died? In 1985 when Milosevic first became prominent? In 1991 when Slovenia and Croatia broke away? It is a matter of interpretation, but that the same people and party went from being leftist to rightist thugs over a decades' time only shows the limitations of how we describe political affiliations.

Good one Hitro!

Numbers 6, 7 and 21 still left to go folks! Any takers?

Some hints:

6. This country's leadership ironically was mostly trained at an American university in Turkey.

7. Well, we've got east Germany and Romania; what other state was a major holdout...until November, 1989?

21. For Hungarians, Munkásörökség = Securitate.

Hope that helps...

Originally posted by Vrylakas
7. Well, we've got east Germany and Romania; what other state
was a major holdout...until November, 1989?


Tchechoslovakia ?

Anyway - thanks for the picture :).
And related with exageration - in Ceausescu trial was mentioned the number of ... 60.000 deads !!

Regards

Mîtiu Ioan wrote:

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by Vrylakas
7. Well, we've got east Germany and Romania; what other state
was a major holdout...until November, 1989?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Tchechoslovakia?

Yes! Gustav Husak (Erich Honecker's closest ally) in Czechoslovakia also banned peretroika-tainted Soviet periodicals.

Anyway - thanks for the picture.

No problem. I have a few from that trip, though I think attachment limits preclude me from posting them. That was an exciting time, and despite the danger everyone was very helpful. One woman in Timisoara went very far out of her way to help us find some food as I recall, and a family took us in for several days when no local hotels in Arad would. Of course, I had to show up after the warm spell so there was solid ice everywhere from melted snow of the previous week... In Bucuresti when the electricity went out around 8.00 p.m. some guy walked us a very long distance in the dark to the train station. Three people were shot dead in the main square in Arad our first night there, and we stayed in (that first night) the home of the city's former Securitate chief, since given to a youth organization. I even managed to wander into the fortress on the Mures River in Arad before some nervous soldiers escorted me out...

And related with exageration - in Ceausescu trial was mentioned the number of ... 60.000 deads !!

I recall. All of Europe was echoing with stories of hundreds of thousands of Romanians dead. Still, it was bloody enough as it was...

Now: I'll give you a hint for Question # 6 that you'll likely get: This country received southern Dobrudja back from Romania at the end of WW II. Now do you get it...?

Originally posted by Vrylakas
Now: I'll give you a hint for Question # 6 that you'll likely get: This country received southern Dobrudja back from Romania at the end of WW II. Now do you get it...?

Ooo - yes - Bulgaria.

And at Q21 - probably the "precedent" was disolve of all Securitate's structures ( not a really wise act BTW ... :( ) and arrestation of its commander - gen I. Vlad.

Regards

Mîtiu Ioan wrote:

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by Vrylakas
Now: I'll give you a hint for Question # 6 that you'll likely get: This country received southern Dobrudja back from Romania at the end of WW II. Now do you get it...?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ooo - yes - Bulgaria.

Yes! Right on. Bulgaria's liberation from Zhivkov and the communists began when ethnic Turks who were being deported by the tens of thousands to Turkey rioted and were shot down by the Durjava Sigurnost', the Bulgarian secret police, in early November 1989. The first beginnings of an opposition came from environmentalist groups who began protesting against what the UN called the most polluted municipality in Europe in northern Bulgaria. Their protests turned to larger political issues and many had high hopes they could topple the communists, but their protests fizzled so a younger cadre of communists led by Mladanov launched what amounts to a palace coup that ousted Zhivkov.

And at Q21 - probably the "precedent" was disolve of all Securitate's structures ( not a really wise act BTW ... ) and arrestation of its commander - gen I. Vlad.

Yes again! After watching the loyal Securitate fight so viciously in the Romanian Revolution, the Hungarians figured it would be a good idea to disarm the Hungarian communist militia. The Army went door-to-door to collect all the weapons this militia had stored since the 1950s.

Good job Ioan! Thanks for wrapping this one up!

I should have known that you will show up with something like this quiz! ;) It's really great again!:goodjob:
I would like to add some points to the picture basically relating to Hungary though.

For Hungarians, Munkásörökség = Securitate.

Actually its name is not "Munkásörökség" but "Munkásõrség".;) But the point is that even if there were similarities with the Romanian Securitate it was far less effective. It was organized after 1956 as some weird "national guard" and its main function was the representation of communist power (towards the citizens and not for the "imperialist powers") with public marching in socialist holidays. It was never related to some kind of internal secret service like the Secu (Ioan can correct me ;)) and had far less members. The only time when there was some "need" for this was in 1988-89, but they were shocked and although some of their leaders would really like to beat everbody up they were not used. (When the rallies were held to cease them in one of the rallies I was one of the speekers. I spoke to the "crowd" from the top of the wall of a "Munkásõrség" barrack and those guys were inside with their guns but they were not hostile rather miserable - I guess they had to face a lot of problems in that days.)

The minority connection of course that spurred the massacre in Timisoara was the attempted arrest of the Hungarian Reformist priest Tökés László.

This is a very sensitive point of the Hungarian memory and in a weird way it also works against Hungary as well. Tökés gained such a huge reputation in Hungary from his role in the Romanian revolution that he completely got out of control and he is now one of the Hungarian hawks in Transylvania. Believe me, he has done as much bad for Hungarians since 1989 as good.:(

8. In the 1980s, which of all the European communist states was considered the most liberal?
Hungary?
No - one was considered even more liberal.

There could be more liberal states, but Hungary was definitely the "most cheerful barrack" (legvidámabb barakk) in the Eastern Camp! :lol: :lol:

The American expression is "kicked upstairs". Kádár was "promoted" to a new party ceremonial post, effectively removing him from power but in such a way that it looked like it was honor.

That's a hundred percent true and Kádár understood it also (he was not dumb at all) and after this he did not appear in public too much. As a frown of history he died in the very same day when the Hungarian high court declared the trial of Imre Nagy (Hungarian prime minister in 1956 who was executed later by the Kádár regime with Soviet pressure) as a communist conspiracy.

You're confusing the dam project, which although a communist-designed mess didn't really hit any strong resistance in Hungary until the early 1990s. The Hungarian government finally cancelled the project but a Hague Court ruling brought by a suit filed by the Slovaks forced the Hungarians to continue.

The dam project was the first nation-wide resistance against the socialist rule in Hungary. It started in the mid-eighties as a green critique. I remember that for years this was the only "political" issue that could be challenged and (saying with Yoda :)) challanged it was! The dam became the symbol of the communism/socialism in Hungary (regardless of the economic or environmental pros and cons) and the first street rallies were organized by this. It was stopped after 1990 but since it was actually two separate projects (one in Hungary and one in Slovakia) and the Slovaks (Meciar) did not stop it, so it became a huge mess of political and legal issues. The Hague Court finally made a decision that could be interpreted in both countries as victory. The dam still has a very strong political context and if someone would argue for finishing it it would sound in Hungary as if this person would deny the whole transition.

Well that's it and thanks for enhancing the community's knowledge about the former Eastern Block. :goodjob:

Cheers,
laci

Originally posted by klazlo
It was never related to some kind of internal secret service like the Secu (Ioan can correct me ;)) and had far less members.


"Securitate" ( Full name : Security of State ) was in fact a complex organism which included :
- teritorial guard units composed mainly by conscripts - like French "jandarmerie";
- technological espionage;
- counter-espionage;
- somekind of police for most dangerous crimes ( serial killers, kidnapping, big economical fraud etc );
- special forces for guard the politicians and public institutions;
- at least, but most notorious in western propaganda, a structure to fight against "foreign propaganda and its internal supporters which want to overthrone the socialist governement of Romania".

The cynical fact is the number of "securitate" officers was hardly overestimated - it was something between 45.000 - 60.000 people for all this departaments. The number of officers in the last departament was something between 5500-6500. But here was included some logistical and internal structure so probably there was something like 3500-4500 officers to a population of 23 milions - and most of them try to avoid this because to work in the last departament wasthe worse-payed job. :D
The explanation that Ceausescu control the country and stay in power only because of "Securitate" action is a hoax. In fact this service was more effective outside the border of Romania that inside. Many "disidents" exagerated the power of Securitate to excuse their cowardness ... :(
The true is that during 1965-1980 Romania had one of its finest economical period in history. And many people really like Ceausescu this time. If a election would that place in 1975 undoubtely Ceausescu and the commies would get 70% of votes - belive me !!
And when the economical situation get worse most of the people realise that they don't have the rigth to criticise this or to peacefully change the leaders so the popular support erroded faster ...


Tökés gained such a huge reputation in Hungary from his role in the Romanian revolution that he completely got out of control and he is now one of the Hungarian hawks in Transylvania. Believe me, he has done as much bad for Hungarians since 1989 as good.:(


KLaszlo will probably be angry for this but the fact is that for Tokes is perfectfully true what Marx said about Bakunin ( If I'm remember well ) : Man like him is very usefull in the fisrt day of a revolution but in the second you should shot him to avoid any trouble. Tokes is an extremist which in fact doesn't seem to be very preocupied with the result of his action.


Regards

*Whew* I'm back after a long and messy trip through western New York and Toronto. I hate my car right now...

Klazlo wrote:

I should have known that you will show up with something like this quiz! It's really great again!
I would like to add some points to the picture basically relating to Hungary though.

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For Hungarians, Munkásörökség = Securitate.
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Actually its name is not "Munkásörökség" but "Munkásõrség".

D'oh! That's right, örökség means "heritage". BTW, I can't replicate the long "ö" on my keyboard in a way that it shows up here. *^&%! Western-centrist Microsoft! :mad:

But the point is that even if there were similarities with the Romanian Securitate it was far less effective. It was organized after 1956 as some weird "national guard" and its main function was the representation of communist power (towards the citizens and not for the "imperialist powers") with public marching in socialist holidays. It was never related to some kind of internal secret service like the Secu (Ioan can correct me ) and had far less members. The only time when there was some "need" for this was in 1988-89, but they were shocked and although some of their leaders would really like to beat everbody up they were not used. (When the rallies were held to cease them in one of the rallies I was one of the speekers. I spoke to the "crowd" from the top of the wall of a "Munkásõrség" barrack and those guys were inside with their guns but they were not hostile rather miserable - I guess they had to face a lot of problems in that days.)

Yes, it certainly was less effective - but designed for the same thing, to keep the commies in power if the army betrayed the regime (as it did in 1956). Wasn't there a comedy film in 1990 or so with Eperjes Károly about how incompetent they were?

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The minority connection of course that spurred the massacre in Timisoara was the attempted arrest of the Hungarian Reformist priest Tökés László.
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This is a very sensitive point of the Hungarian memory and in a weird way it also works against Hungary as well. Tökés gained such a huge reputation in Hungary from his role in the Romanian revolution that he completely got out of control and he is now one of the Hungarian hawks in Transylvania. Believe me, he has done as much bad for Hungarians since 1989 as good.

Yes, I recall what a loudmouth he's become. I had the chance to hear him speak once when he came to my university in Pécs.

quote:
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You're confusing the dam project, which although a communist-designed mess didn't really hit any strong resistance in Hungary until the early 1990s. The Hungarian government finally cancelled the project but a Hague Court ruling brought by a suit filed by the Slovaks forced the Hungarians to continue.
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The dam project was the first nation-wide resistance against the socialist rule in Hungary. It started in the mid-eighties as a green critique. I remember that for years this was the only "political" issue that could be challenged and (saying with Yoda ) challanged it was! The dam became the symbol of the communism/socialism in Hungary (regardless of the economic or environmental pros and cons) and the first street rallies were organized by this. It was stopped after 1990 but since it was actually two separate projects (one in Hungary and one in Slovakia) and the Slovaks (Meciar) did not stop it, so it became a huge mess of political and legal issues. The Hague Court finally made a decision that could be interpreted in both countries as victory. The dam still has a very strong political context and if someone would argue for finishing it it would sound in Hungary as if this person would deny the whole transition.

I got into a heated argument with a Slovak in Hungary about this project. It was quite clear it had become so politicized that the actual environmental effects were being obscured. A friend (Romanian friend, actually) summarized the situation best once when we were on top of the cathedral in Esztergom looking across the Danube, when he compared the two countries' relation to the unfinished bridge that stretches across to Sturovo...

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The American expression is "kicked upstairs". Kádár was "promoted" to a new party ceremonial post, effectively removing him from power but in such a way that it looked like it was honor.
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That's a hundred percent true and Kádár understood it also (he was not dumb at all) and after this he did not appear in public too much. As a frown of history he died in the very same day when the Hungarian high court declared the trial of Imre Nagy (Hungarian prime minister in 1956 who was executed later by the Kádár regime with Soviet pressure) as a communist conspiracy.

Here's where that S.O.B. belongs:

Mîtiu Ioan wrote:

KLaszlo will probably be angry for this but the fact is that for Tokes is perfectfully true what Marx said about Bakunin ( If I'm remember well ) : Man like him is very usefull in the fisrt day of a revolution but in the second you should shot him to avoid any trouble. Tokes is an extremist which in fact doesn't seem to be very preocupied with the result of his action.

No, I think most Hungarians would agree with you. It's like Walesa; he was the right man for the job back in 1980-81 and again in 1987-88, but he should have just faded away. As a president, he just f***ed everything up and guaranteed that the country stood still for nearly a decade. His ridiculous conservatism and reliance on the Church, and his refusal to deal with anyone (including prime ministers) who didn't absolutely agree with his every word did great damage to Poland. I was in the crowd when he was inaugurated in December 1990 and we were all supposed to be happy because there was a freely-elected president in Poland for the first time since 1926 but why did they elect this half-literate moron? Revolutionaries should do their greatest deeds, then fade away into the sunset. Unfortunately, most of them become too egotistical (like the dictator of San Marcos in Woody Allen's film Bananas) and begin to believe that only they can save the country and run it. I think it was Oscar Wilde who said that if there's only one man who can save the country, then it's not a country worth saving...

Originally posted by Mîtiu Ioan

KLaszlo will probably be angry for this but the fact is that for Tokes is perfectfully true what Marx said about Bakunin ( If I'm remember well ) : Man like him is very usefull in the fisrt day of a revolution but in the second you should shot him to avoid any trouble. Tokes is an extremist which in fact doesn't seem to be very preocupied with the result of his action.


I won't be angry because my opinion is exactly the same! ;)
Tokes is some kind of hero (or "saint" because of his church position :)) for a lot of Hungarians but I think that even if he had some credits for his role in the early part of the revolution, he has done a lot for NOT making "peace" in Romania between the Romanians and the Hungarians. I think that he is really a crazy extremist (just like Miklos Duray in Slovakia, who is a stupid jerk) making nothing but trouble. Fortunately his fame is slowly and surely getting eroded in Hungary also, and I hope that after the fall of the right-wing government he won't get financial support from Hungary.

Originally posted by Vrylakas
Mîtiu Ioan wrote:

KLaszlo will probably be angry for this but the fact is that for Tokes is perfectfully true what Marx said about Bakunin ( If I'm remember well ) : Man like him is very usefull in the fisrt day of a revolution but in the second you should shot him to avoid any trouble. Tokes is an extremist which in fact doesn't seem to be very preocupied with the result of his action.

No, I think most Hungarians would agree with you. It's like Walesa; he was the right man for the job back in 1980-81 and again in 1987-88, but he should have just faded away. As a president, he just f***ed everything up and guaranteed that the country stood still for nearly a decade. His ridiculous conservatism and reliance on the Church, and his refusal to deal with anyone (including prime ministers) who didn't absolutely agree with his every word did great damage to Poland. I was in the crowd when he was inaugurated in December 1990 and we were all supposed to be happy because there was a freely-elected president in Poland for the first time since 1926 but why did they elect this half-literate moron? Revolutionaries should do their greatest deeds, then fade away into the sunset. Unfortunately, most of them become too egotistical (like the dictator of San Marcos in Woody Allen's film Bananas) and begin to believe that only they can save the country and run it. I think it was Oscar Wilde who said that if there's only one man who can save the country, then it's not a country worth saving...


:lol:
Actually I was about to cite Walesa as similarity. I still have a "Solidarity" badge somewhere from that period...
But you're right: Walesa was really a shame when getting into power. These guys are the cursed heritage of socialism... We have a lot of morons from 1956 who claim that they were there and fought the Soviets, well some of them maybe, but with so many "freedom fighters" that you can see today we should have win that fight easily! :lol: Just like the partisans after WWII...

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Vrylakas

D'oh! That's right, örökség means "heritage". BTW, I can't replicate the long "ö" on my keyboard in a way that it shows up here. *^&%! Western-centrist Microsoft! :mad:


I can feel your pain, in my office computer I don't have Hungarian characters either.



Yes, it certainly was less effective - but designed for the same thing, to keep the commies in power if the army betrayed the regime (as it did in 1956). Wasn't there a comedy film in 1990 or so with Eperjes Károly about how incompetent they were?


Man you are great! I was about to refer that movie but I simply cannot remember the title. It was huge! Eperjes is one of the best actors in Hungary, he had a lot of great films referring to the socialist era, it's just too bad that he gives public support for some politicians. He is quite religious I think and one reward from the politics was when he could go with the Hungarian official delegation to visit the pope.


I got into a heated argument with a Slovak in Hungary about this project. It was quite clear it had become so politicized that the actual environmental effects were being obscured. A friend (Romanian friend, actually) summarized the situation best once when we were on top of the cathedral in Esztergom looking across the Danube, when he compared the two countries' relation to the unfinished bridge that stretches across to Sturovo...

That bridge was finished last year if I remember correctly, but the relations did not change too much and if Meciar will come back in Slovakia it will be even worse.:(