As a religion-monger, this will pure awesomeness

As a non-religion-monger, I also think it will be pure awesomeness. It won't benefit me much unless I change my strategy, but it sounds like it'll be great fun to have it in the game.

Will make playing as Isabella a whole lot more interesting.

Does anyone know yet if Crusades are an option?

How could they not be?

I'd like to see how it works before I congratulate anyone.....

The idea of the Apostolic Palace looks very promising, as it might make the strategies in the beginning change substantially.
You will struggle harder to distribute your religion amongst the other nations, to gain the benefits from the AP. And it might turn out to be desastrous, if you are just surpassed in the race to it.

Let us hope they did the programming of the AI good enough to cope with this feature.

I hope this doesn't mean Buddhism and Hinduism will automatically be the only religions worth anything, since they come so early (hence the Apostolic Palace makes them important due to influence). It's bad enough already -- Christianity has a hard time, and Islam almost always stays at ~1%.

Does anyone know yet if Crusades are an option?

Well, in the screenshots, some units VERY similar to crusaders were present.

The Info Center page also says this:
"It allows you to leverage your diplomatic standing to manipulate the world like never before. Build it and civilizations sharing your religion can vote on resolutions you put forth, like stopping and starting wars, enforcing trade embargos, or even assigning cities to their "rightful" owner."

That doesn't have to mean Crusades specifically, but it sounds like something very much like it. :D

I'm looking forward to it as well :D , I hope that there will only be one (not seven).

I'd like to know if it's a world wonder or a religion national wonder thing?

It isn't a world wonder, apparently, or it would be in the list. Yet they say it's a wonder. I could see it as a NW, but that doesn't seem right... where's the incentive to build it first?

It's probably a world wonder, but just isn't included in the list of the other five because they wanted to give it special recognition.

They make the game and we pay them for it. If anyone should be grateful, it is Firaxis, to civ's fan-base and its client/customer in general.

I'd like to know if it's a world wonder or a religion national wonder thing?

I'm guessing it's like the UN, in that it's a project instead of a wonder. Yeah, I know, they call it a wonder, but at the same time they don't include it in the list of new wonders. Odd way of saying it.

I'm looking forward to trying this out. I can't wait!

I'd say:

-can only be built in a shrined holy city which is the civs current state religion
-can only be built by a prophet (just like the shrine)
-there is one for each religion.
-(maybe) requires a few other things, like a percentage of religion spread or something.

Ahhh, Isabella will be an even bigger pain in my ass now! It seems that every game I play with her in it she becomes my chief rival. Damn her.

Maybe there will be a second Spanish leader. I hope.

Will the UN wonder stay or is it going, and will it get some of these new resolutions?

Will the UN wonder stay or is it going, and will it get some of these new resolutions?

I believe the UN is staying. Note this sentence:

This is a Wonder that allows a religion to play a major part in international affairs, centuries before the United Nations make their appearance.

I hate the united nations, and Im sure I will utterly loath the "appocolyptic" palace. Im sure its spelled wrong, but to me the thing is just a giant target with the words kill me written on it in giant red letters. I'm sure that when and if I hear the sound of its completion my hordes of drunken axemen will join me in the battle cry, "Come on Pooky lets burn this mother down!" Pooky of course being an axemen general who used to be a quecha and is about lvl 9 by this point.
There is nothing worse than being told what to do by the majority of lame civilizations who you havent had time to pound into oblivion yet what you have to do. They need to at least add the option to say no to any resolution, at the expense of war with everyone who supports it, and will challenge you.

/\/\
Maybe the whole point is to make diplomacy more of an option and warmongering a little harder?

I hate the united nations, and Im sure I will utterly loath the "appocolyptic" palace. Im sure its spelled wrong, but to me the thing is just a giant target with the words kill me written on it in giant red letters. I'm sure that when and if I hear the sound of its completion my hordes of drunken axemen will join me in the battle cry, "Come on Pooky lets burn this mother down!" Pooky of course being an axemen general who used to be a quecha and is about lvl 9 by this point.
There is nothing worse than being told what to do by the majority of lame civilizations who you havent had time to pound into oblivion yet what you have to do. They need to at least add the option to say no to any resolution, at the expense of war with everyone who supports it, and will challenge you.I think the resolutions that are created only directly affect the empires that are of the same state relligion. So, if Isabella has the AP, and then puts forth a resolution to declare war on such and such, the other leaders vote and if it passes, all the leaders of her state religion goes to war against that leader. That would be my understanding of it anyway. Kind of like having a great influence over leaders of the same state religion.

I sincerely hope they've gotten rid of this system (of forcing you to do things) in favor of letting you choose to go against the majority, but in exchange for a major diplomatic hit. But I am not optimistic. Good grief, people, they promised this once with defense pacts! Remember in Civ 3 how you automatically declared war on a third party if your "brothers" were attacked? Well, they promised this wouldn't be so in Civ 4, and that you'd get the option to weasel out of the deal in exchange for a HUGE reputation hit. But according to the Civilopedia, that didn't happen.

I find it strangely ironic that the designers who thought the Senate from Civ 2 was too "un-fun" would reimplement the same concepts in a different shade. And at least the Senate was optional--you could always change governments.

I sincerely hope they've gotten rid of this system (of forcing you to do things) in favor of letting you choose to go against the majority, but in exchange for a major diplomatic hit. But I am not optimistic. Good grief, people, they promised this once with defense pacts! Remember in Civ 3 how you automatically declared war on a third party if your "brothers" were attacked? Well, they promised this wouldn't be so in Civ 4, and that you'd get the option to weasel out of the deal in exchange for a HUGE reputation hit. But according to the Civilopedia, that didn't happen.

I find it strangely ironic that the designers who thought the Senate from Civ 2 was too "un-fun" would reimplement the same concepts in a different shade. And at least the Senate was optional--you could always change governments.

Well, in the case of the Apostolic Palace, I imagine you can always change your religion if you don't like it. You might be stuck in war for 10 turns, but at least you can make peace on your own.

EDIT: And of course, that'll hurt your diplo score big time. The AP actually adds some negative considerations to religion.

Well, if your rivals get the AP, maybe it'll be their Apoplectic Palace and thus they'll be frozen in dialogue, and committees, accomplish nothing while one wreaks conquest upon their ripe lands! Sorta like UN of modern times :mischief:

/\/\
Maybe the whole point is to make diplomacy more of an option and warmongering a little harder?Funny--my first thought was how would some clever warmongerer use this for world conquest? :lol:

They make the game and we pay them for it. If anyone should be grateful, it is Firaxis, to civ's fan-base and its client/customer in general.
Oh, don't be so cynical. I mean, you're correct, yes, but you can still be grateful for their work. It's called being a fan, y'know?
We should buy the game to show a gratitude for their making it, they should make a good game to show their gratitude for us buying it. Two way street, you see?

I really think that AP can serve the two purposes i.e. war or peace, it depends on what resolution you want to pass.

Oh, don't be so cynical. I mean, you're correct, yes, but you can still be grateful for their work. It's called being a fan, y'know?
We should buy the game to show a gratitude for their making it, they should make a good game to show their gratitude for us buying it. Two way street, you see?
Actually, if you want to show your gratitude, you should donate some of your money.

They are doing business and their job. If they do good, we may buy it and therefore, they will have the chance to continue business.
All they do is to offer us to buy their product - and therefore, they are obliged to make it as good as they ever can under the restrictions of time, manpower and budget.
We are the ones to decide if their offer is good enough for us to spend our money.

There is nothing about "gratitude".

I'd say:

-can only be built in a shrined holy city which is the civs current state religion
-can only be built by a prophet (just like the shrine)
-there is one for each religion.
-(maybe) requires a few other things, like a percentage of religion spread or something.

I don't think it's any of these. It is a single World Wonder (or World Project) - it applies to the religion that is the state religion of the owner. Simple as that.

This means that if the current owner of the Apostolic Palace changes state religion, the Apostolic Palace "members" also change.

I sincerely hope they've gotten rid of this system (of forcing you to do things) in favor of letting you choose to go against the majority, but in exchange for a major diplomatic hit.

Changing state religion should allow you to avoid the AP.

I'm glad that religion will finally be useful.

Does anyone know yet if Crusades are an option?

They did talk about holy wars so possibly

I hope it doesn't further penalize human players at higher difficulty levels. Basically starting from Monarch I lose most of the early religion races and now I basically have given this up. Even I found one most of the time I don't declare state religion for fear of making enemies before my military solidifies.

Now, religion has more of a purpose than just "+1: We share a state religion".

I just hope there isn't some dumbarse option of basically being secretary general of the vatican in medieval times and winning the game. There would be too many cheap victories.

I don't think it's any of these. It is a single World Wonder (or World Project) - it applies to the religion that is the state religion of the owner. Simple as that.

This means that if the current owner of the Apostolic Palace changes state religion, the Apostolic Palace "members" also change....The benefit of hindsight huh? My post was made before any of the new infomation about the AP came out :lol:

Now, religion has more of a purpose than just "+1: We share a state religion".

I just hope there isn't some dumbarse option of basically being secretary general of the vatican in medieval times and winning the game. There would be too many cheap victories.


Well It sounds like there is, but that probably wouldn't be easy, as you would probably have to get all or almost all of the world to share your state religion, quite a challenge. (and of course you'd also have to keep them happy in other ways)

Well It sounds like there is, but that probably wouldn't be easy, as you would probably have to get all or almost all of the world to share your state religion, quite a challenge. (and of course you'd also have to keep them happy in other ways)

OK, now I am definitely NOT pissed.

Well It sounds like there is, but that probably wouldn't be easy, as you would probably have to get all or almost all of the world to share your state religion, quite a challenge. (and of course you'd also have to keep them happy in other ways)Mmmm it'll probably be like a religious victory or something - something that'll take most of the game to do.

But doesn't the AP become obsolete at communism? I can't remember where I read it, but I remember reading something about it (or something else) obsoleting at communism.

what would be cool, is if when you discover Mass Media, you have the option of upgrading the AP to the UN. and instead of being whatever the UN costs it will being cheaper or something

Mmmm it'll probably be like a religious victory or something - something that'll take most of the game to do.

They have said it allows you to win diplomatically much earlier than the UN.

But doesn't the AP become obsolete at communism? I can't remember where I read it, but I remember reading something about it (or something else) obsoleting at communism.

Yes, at least that is what I've gathered from the information given to us so far.

Info Center/Apostolic Palace (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=222075#UN)

Well, if that's the case, then the AP victory would have to be done before Communism then.