Go on... you know you want to.... ;)

Speculate about what the UB's will be for the new civs.

Portugal: I'm guessing they went with some kind of docks or fishery to represent the Portuguese naval skill.

Babylon: I could see several possibilities working, either some kind of cuneiform "library," a ziggurat of some sort, or an updated walls loosely based on the Walls of Babylon.

Native Americans: We know for sure it will be a Totem Pole.

Dutch: No idea. Perhaps a Tulip Garden? :lol:

Maya: Either some kind of observatory to represent Mayan astronomical sophistication or a Ball Court.

With the Dutch I can't help thinking about windmills and dykes. Windmills being used to pump dykes dry. Not sure how it would be implemented.

Well there is one interesting issue, doubling up, in Warlords, no Building had more than 1 UB associated with it, which means the only ones left would be

Religious buildings (Temple, Monastery, Cathedral)
Drydock
Airport
Hospital
Nuclear Plant
Hydro Plant
Recycling Center
Bunker
Bomb Shelter
Any New BTS Buildings

In any case Because the Portugese have a Naval UU, I would imagine that they would Not (for Balance) have a Coastal UB [perhaps an Observatory]

Totem Pole probably replaces Monument

A Library makes a Lot of sense for Bablyon

I like the terribly anachronistic idea of an Observatory for the Mayans, but a Colluseum->Ball Court might be better

Dutch... ?Dams+dykes replacing an Aqueduct? (+1 food from land reclamation?)

If a Totem Pole replaces a monument, then we do have two buildings per building class, yes? (Obelisk replaces monument already.)
;)

Unless the totem pole replaces a new building, it gives XP to archers I believe so maybe there is a new building which does that but has a weaker effect (kinda like the Ger/Stable thing).

Although UUs do double up, conquistador and camel archer both replace the knight IIRC.

Well there is one interesting issue, doubling up, in Warlords, no Building had more than 1 UB associated with it, which means the only ones left would be

Religious buildings (Temple, Monastery, Cathedral)
Drydock
Airport
Hospital
Nuclear Plant
Hydro Plant
Recycling Center
Bunker
Bomb Shelter
Any New BTS Buildings



Looking at those it's hard to fit any of those into a UB for the new civs. my guess is that they'll double some up.

What? People don't find a unique Mayan nuclear plant realistic? ;)

What? People don't find a unique Mayan nuclear plant realistic? ;)

Or a Swiss Drydock, If the Swiss are in the game.

I think you can rule out any of the religious buildings, as there are 7 religions that's 7 possible instances of a UB potentially.

Wouldn't that tie a religious building to a specific religion though?

If a civ had a UB temple you could build up to 7 of them, which doesn't sound right to me.

I suspect they'll double up.

I also wonder about monuments. Why do they obsolete? Shouldn't they be buildable for the whole game?

I'm doubting they will make a unique religious building because then, as ParadigmShifter says, you can build multiple UBs per city.

I could see, for either of the sea-faring civs (Dutch or Portugal), a unique harbor or lighthouse that provides a free merchant specialist. I could also see an Opera House theatre replacement for the Austrians (if they are added), and a Ball Court for the Maya. For Babylon, we could have a Library replacement that reduces corruption, like the Zulu UB.

Right now, we have multiple swordsmen UU, so I would guess, so long as the UBs are distinct enough, we can have multiple UBs replacing the same building.

The Dutch could get the Drydock.

I'm betting that the Portuguese UB will be Torre de Belem (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bel%C3%A9m_Tower) , probably an harbor with extra :culture: and/or :gold: .

EDIT: It would look cool ingame, wouldn't it :D ?

With the Dutch I can't help thinking about windmills and dykes. Windmills being used to pump dykes dry. Not sure how it would be implemented.
Dutch Dyke. You're City is immune to German soldiers under 12 feet tall. :p *







*For those that don't get the joke, Wilhelm II in one of his typically stupid moves, tried to intimidate the Queen Wilhelmina that his German soldiers were all six feet tall, to which she famously replied "That may be, but when we flood our dykes, the water is 12 feet high" :lol:

Well, they could always add new buildings to the game to have possible new unique buildings... ;)

maybe the babylonians will get a courthouse replacement? id say a drydock replacement will come in for the dutch or porteguese

we can imagine a new building to give archer some XP, BUT as archery unit are primary defence, it would make city conquering harder, and would unbalanced the game deeply to civ with archery UU (protective Cho-ko-nus anyone?)
The Totem Pole special effect is to give archery unit new XP. that's his advantage. however, archery unit become obsolete with gunpowder. So the effects of the totem pole will obsolete. Why the totem pole can't become obsolete? The idea would be that totem pole obsolete with gunpowder (meaning the totem pole is either a castle or a wall, nah, don't fit). What are the other obsolating buildings? top of the head: monastery and the monument.

What can we conclude of this:
-new types of buildings are created and the totem pole will replace one of these, keeping the rule of no doubling UB. BUT the totem pole is clearly an early UB. that means ther will be new buildings for the early game? doesn't really need one. at the beginning of the game, there is always something to build: unit, buildings, wonders, workers, settlers...there is no lack of something in the early game justifying that in my eyes. Moreover, since there is babylonia too and i can't think of babylonian nuclear plant UB, that would mean there is at least two new early buildings. Conclusion: new buildings still may be a possibility but very improbable.
-No new buildings so there is doubling UB. The first coming to mind for totem pole is of course the monument. It expires, like the effect of the UB. Please note (still top of the head) that you can research to gunpowder without calendar.
-No new buildings but it replace anything else. the best candidates are courthouse (well, smoking pipes around the totem) and walls (obsoletion of archery unit). Very unlikely since totem pole doesn't need construction and there are other better candidates for courthouse (mayas anyone?)

For the other civ, we got to think of it globally. I mean, that since portuguese have a naval UU, there's little chance that they have a "naval UB". too powerfull on archipelago, not enough on pangea, great plains, and other "non water" maps. moreover, UB are specific of a "golden age" period or something like that. or there are the adaptation of a specific building.

that's why i think portuguese will have an observatory UB, the dutch (with a pikeman UU or a naval UU) will have a bank UB (+50% trade route income?). The mayas will have a courthouse UB (pyramids or ball court; a warrior or a swordman UU) and the babys a maternity UB with a nurse UU... :lol: well a granary UB and an archer UU. By the way, i don't see the native americans with an archer UU, more of a horse archer, but who knows...

Actually, I'd imagine the Native Americans either have a

Horse Archer
OR
(because it hasn't been done yet)
Longbowman

They might also have a Warrior

Could be a scout that can attack or has extra strength

The Babylonians will probably get Babylonia walls. And a Babylonia Archer.

I would be quite surprised if they only use buildings that already do not have a unique building replacement - as someone pointed out, the only buildings left are pretty modern (I don't think they will use religious buildings as unique buildings, as that would be too imbalancing), and several new civilizations either reached their apex during non-modern times or do not even exist in modernity (Babylonians or Mayans, for example). So unless they shift some UBs from the existing civs or add new buildings, I think it is a fair assumption there will be some buildings getting more than 1 UB versions.

My guesses are:
Portuguese - probably some Lighthouse or Harbour replacement
Dutch - my guess is windmill, replacing forge (with no unhealthy effects)
Babylonians - ziggurat seems most likely candidate, it should probably replace a monument
Sioux - said to be a totem pole, dunno what it will replace
Mayans - no idea

I started a slimilar thread where I was pretty sure the Ziggurat will be Babylon's UB.
It could be an additional temple, not associated to a religion.
Comes with priesthood, gives +1 happynes and culture and allows you to have a priest specialist, but it doesn't require a religion in the city.

I'm betting that the Portuguese UB will be Torre de Belem (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bel%C3%A9m_Tower) , probably an harbor with extra :culture: and/or :gold: .

EDIT: It would look cool ingame, wouldn't it :D ?

It is beautiful indeed, but shouldn't it rather replace castle than harbor with extra income (more trade routes or +xx% of gold in city.. maybe the usual extra trade route and +10% of gold like mint/forge)? From the link "Indeed, given its height and lack of dissimulation in the landscape, some historians believe the Tower was mostly intended to serve as a customs outpost". Makes sense to me.

There are some ideas of UB's giving free specialists.. has this been implemented on any mods? I'm just wondering about balance issues.

Btw, i really hope that Firaxis extends lifespan of castles on BTS.

The French and Russian UBs already give Free Specialists
The Greek, Arab, and Egyptian UBs allow additional Specialists

It is beautiful indeed, but shouldn't it rather replace castle than harbor with extra income (more trade routes or +xx% of gold in city.. maybe the usual extra trade route and +10% of gold like mint/forge)? From the link "Indeed, given its height and lack of dissimulation in the landscape, some historians believe the Tower was mostly intended to serve as a customs outpost". Makes sense to me.

There are some ideas of UB's giving free specialists.. has this been implemented on any mods? I'm just wondering about balance issues.

Btw, i really hope that Firaxis extends lifespan of castles on BTS.

The Belem Tower indeed most of their lifespan a tax collector's office from the ships that entered/exited Lisbon ( including the fishermen :crazyeye: ), but it had military value (in fact I have a XIX century picture of two American frigates being reppeled from the Lisbon sea entry by the Belem Tower ( American civil war... Portugal remained neutral, so no American military ship was allowed to dock in ( from any side of the conflict) ). I would post it , if my scanner was working :( ).

The problem with your castle idea is the complete divergent tech path to both the UU and the castle ( Engeneering + Optics). Lots of beakers, and a almost complete impossibility of combining the UU and the UB use (not a new thing, but... ). Of course that if the castle lifespan and even the tech that enables it were changed ( maybe CS enabling caste? ) that would be a more atractive idea.

The idea you quoted of free specialists UB maybe would be a nice one, but ( like you said) needs a lot of balance...

The French and Russian UBs already give Free Specialists
The Greek, Arab, and Egyptian UBs allow additional Specialists

Thanks, i had not realized (or remembered really, i read the UB guide some time ago) French / Russian UB's already did that :blush:.


The problem with your castle idea is the complete divergent tech path to both the UU and the castle ( Engeneering + Optics). Lots of beakers, and a almost complete impossibility of combining the UU and the UB use (not a new thing, but... ). Of course that if the castle lifespan and even the tech that enables it were changed ( maybe CS enabling caste? ) that would be a more atractive idea.


I admit, i really did not think techs at all. Advantage of castle over harbor would be it's usefulness on maps which do not have coastline, as Portuguese UU will be useless on those settings.

I started a slimilar thread where I was pretty sure the Ziggurat will be Babylon's UB.
It could be an additional temple, not associated to a religion.
Comes with priesthood, gives +1 happynes and culture and allows you to have a priest specialist, but it doesn't require a religion in the city.

I don't think they'll add a new type of building that only one cive can build, would be a little unfair to all the other civs whose UB replaces an existing building.

The Totem pole could replace the monument.

Ziggurat for Babylon, replacing temple.

I don't think they'll add a new type of building that only one cive can build, would be a little unfair to all the other civs whose UB replaces an existing building.

It woudn't be unfair.

+1:) and +1 :culture: is less than Greece gets from building a Odeon instead of a Colosseum, and an additional temple comsumes more hammers than a replaced building, but it comes very early so it is balanced.

I wouldnt be surprised if Portugal got a Unique Drydock and the Dutch a Unique Hydroplant (Windmill) giving the dutch clean energy without the river requirement.

I also wouldnt be surprised to see the Obelisk become the "norm" and the Totem Pole replace that, since both were phalic like towers for the purpose of religion.

The current Monument becomes a gets replaced by the new UB for Eqypt (Pyramid) since both are constructed to "honor" the deceased passing. The Egyptian giving the options for priests since Pyramids were more for religious purposes and Monuments are just "there"

Outside of that, the buildings would most likely have to double up, unless they create some kind of "Public Park" or Garden (+1 Health) that is replaced by the Ball Court for the Maya.


That still leaves 6 other civilizations. I expect one to replace the Broadcast Tower.

I expect Forges,Libraries , temples , theaters ,Granaries and observatories to be replaced by other buildings. But it is harder to imagine what would be the benefits of each UB. What i would like is a UB that makes whipping easier by either reducing the pop that must be whipped for the Hammers or by adding more Hammers . An UB that allows more Engineers than usual would also be a good idea. I think a replacement of forge will be suitable. Regarding the temple replacement other than the usual (more happinesses , Health , allows more great persons , culture, etc) i would like if they make a city with a temple to spread the religion (of the temple or state) ,faster .

Why should every civ have a different building replacement? Think about UUs: we have 2 chariots units (Immortals, War Chariots), 2 Spearmen (Impi, Phalanx), 2 Macemen (Samurai, Berserk), and so on.

My ideas:
Maya: Ball Court (Colosseum), or Ancient Observatory (Library), or Stele (Monument, although it would be predictable), or Sacred Pool - Dzonot (Aqueduct)
Sioux: Totem (Monument, no doubt about it)
Khmer: Baray (Aqueduct). I don't remember what were Baray for
Netherlands: Polder (Drydock): adds +1 or more food from water tiles
Portugal: Navigation School (Drydock): should have the same effect than normal drydocks, but come earlier. It's a shame Portugal has a naval UU. That ruins my idea.
Byzantium: Kastellion (Castle)

I wouldnt be surprised if Portugal got a Unique Drydock and the Dutch a Unique Hydroplant (Windmill) giving the dutch clean energy without the river requirement.

I also wouldnt be surprised to see the Obelisk become the "norm" and the Totem Pole replace that, since both were phalic like towers for the purpose of religion.

The current Monument becomes a gets replaced by the new UB for Eqypt (Pyramid) since both are constructed to "honor" the deceased passing. The Egyptian giving the options for priests since Pyramids were more for religious purposes and Monuments are just "there"

Outside of that, the buildings would most likely have to double up, unless they create some kind of "Public Park" or Garden (+1 Health) that is replaced by the Ball Court for the Maya.


That still leaves 6 other civilizations. I expect one to replace the Broadcast Tower.
Both Drydock and Hydroplant come in game later than Portuguese and Dutch era of greatness (plus windmills are much less technologicall advanced than hydroplants - unless you mean modern-type windmills). I think windmill replacing forge is a better idea.

I also wouldnt be surprised to see the Obelisk become the "norm" and the Totem Pole replace that, since both were phalic like towers for the purpose of religion.

The Obelisk was the "norm" unit in Civ4 Vanilla. In Warlords the monument took its place.

The current Monument becomes a gets replaced by the new UB for Eqypt (Pyramid) since both are constructed to "honor" the deceased passing. The Egyptian giving the options for priests since Pyramids were more for religious purposes and Monuments are just "there"

The UB for Egypt in Civ4 Warlords is the Obelisk. The Pyramids are have been a world wonder since vanilla. The Vanilla Obelisk was switched to the generic monument, so that the Egyptian Obelisk could be the UB.

Outside of that, the buildings would most likely have to double up, unless they create some kind of "Public Park" or Garden (+1 Health) that is replaced by the Ball Court for the Maya.

I also want to see the Ball Court for the Maya as well. Though I think it should replace the Coliseum. This would double up with Greece's Odeon, but I don't feel that doubling up UB's is a big deal. Its occurs with so many UU's already.


That still leaves 6 other civilizations. I expect one to replace the Broadcast Tower.

We only know five confirmed civs in BtS, and I don't think any of those are going to have a UB that would replace the broadcast tower. As for the five unknown civs, can you think a modern civ (that deserves to be included in the expansion) that would have a late game UB?



So far it seems to me that BtS is going to focus gameplay on the post gunpowder time period, but I don't believe that the ten new civs are necessarily be from this time period. I expect we will see the return of the missing civs from Civ3 Conquests, leaving two spots for civs new to the series. These two may very well be pre-gunpowder as well. EDIT: Sorry, I went on a short tangent here.

Two new civs have open slots? Could that be Poland and Israel? :mischief:

:joke:

I think babylon will have an edubba or ziggurat. The maya will probably get the ball court but what about an observatory that comes earlier, say at calendar. I was thinking with portugal they would give a maritime ub but that wouldn't work with its uu especially, I'm thinking, in a pangaea or highlands and portugal has no water.

This is the same thing that happened in Civ III. Everybody complained because Portugal's traits (expansive/seafaring) were "contradictory": one worked best on pangea, the other on archipelago, so everybody always thought they were a bad civ because one trait would work against the other.

I found that to be untrue when I won my first Emperor game using Prince Henry. Being naval based can give you a massive tech lead that no other civ can touch, if done properly. I see no reason why that might not be the case in BtS.

RE: edubba:
"An edubba is a Sumerian school where young boys learned reading, writing, and arithmetic."
That may very well be the Sumerian UB.

This is the same thing that happened in Civ III. Everybody complained because Portugal's traits (expansive/seafaring) were "contradictory": one worked best on pangea, the other on archipelago, so everybody always thought they were a bad civ because one trait would work against the other.

I found that to be untrue when I won my first Emperor game using Prince Henry. Being naval based can give you a massive tech lead that no other civ can touch, if done properly. I see no reason why that might not be the case in BtS.

RE: edubba:
"An edubba is a Sumerian school where young boys learned reading, writing, and arithmetic."
That may very well be the Sumerian UB.

Then sumer can have the edubba instead of babylon and babylon will have the ziggurat. It all works out perfectly. Except when Firaxis comes in and puts something real random in.....japanese shale plant.....:confused:

That brings up another question could they put in a generic temple?

I think a shipyard building class will be in.

The shale plant is very significant, as it was how Japan got it's oil.
Japan lacked access to conventional oil sources, so they had to figure out oil shale. Also, a lot of the pre-WW2 tensions with Japan and the US was over Japan being boycotted from the oil trade, and their desire to get oil from any source, including Asia.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese-German_pre-WWII_industrial_co-operation

Then sumer can have the edubba instead of babylon and babylon will have the ziggurat. It all works out perfectly. Except when Firaxis comes in and puts something real random in.....japanese shale plant.....:confused:

That brings up another question could they put in a generic temple?

I must admit, the Japanese shale plant would not have been my first choice for UB... kabuki theatre would be more recognizable. But I'm fine either way.

What could be a khmer UB ?

The tulip industry caused a bit of a flop in the Netherlands. I'd go with they get an improved Market to represent the Hanse league, for perhaps more money, some culture, or more happiness.

I hope the Maya get an early Observatory (Math). Monty would be better with a ball court methinks.

I'm ditto on the Ziggaraut.

Go on... you know you want to.... ;)

Speculate about what the UB's will be for the new civs.

Portugal: I'm guessing they went with some kind of docks or fishery to represent the Portuguese naval skill.

Babylon: I could see several possibilities working, either some kind of cuneiform "library," a ziggurat of some sort, or an updated walls loosely based on the Walls of Babylon.

Native Americans: We know for sure it will be a Totem Pole.

Dutch: No idea. Perhaps a Tulip Garden? :lol:

Maya: Either some kind of observatory to represent Mayan astronomical sophistication or a Ball Court.

My guesses would have to be:

Netherlands: Bourse - replaces Bank (dykes being to weird to implement on top of existing buildings..)
Maya: Ball Court - replaces Colloseum (or possibly Barracks)
Sumer: Possibly some sort of irrigation system - replacing Aqueduct or Granary
Portugal: Anyones guess, but I agree with others that it will probably not be connected with the sea.
Byzantine: Probably something relating to the infamous byzantine bureaucracy - replaces courthouse
Babylon: Some sort of clay tablet archive - replaces Library (could be switched with the Sumer UB..)
Native American: Totem Pole - replaces Monument

It's all guesses now, and I posted some ideas. It's fun to read this thread...refreshing change from most of the BtS bickering that goes on.

I would say unique monasteries and unique temples are out of the question, simply because you could build multiple unique buildings in one city, while other civs were more limited in their UB construction. From an issue of fairness, I think it is best to avoid unique temples and unique monasteries.

I thought a harbor that grants a free great merchant was a unique idea for the Portuguese or Dutch...or a harbor that gives +15% commerce. Simple bonus, similar to others in the game.

What about some really odd-ball ideas? Any kind of bonus that can be granted that's not currently implemented as a UB feature in the game? A 20% boost to military unit production, for example?

A free Great Merchant would be too powerful - or do you mean a free merchant specialist?

Guys, notice that according to the Eurogamer interview, there are 18 new buildings, not counting wonders. 10 of these are unique buildings for new civilizations, 2 are corporation-related buildings, and 2 are espionage-related buildings, which leaves 4 additional new buildings (I assume some sort of Archery Range will be one of them).

Assuming that corporation buildings work like religious buildings (i.e. you can build one per each corporation), I don't think either religious buildings or corporation buildings will see a UB version. This leaves up to 6 new buildings (two of them espionage-related admittedly, which I assume come late in game, and most new civs had their heyday in pre-modern times, so it is unlikely that these two will get UB versions - although who knows - Byzantine after all excelled at using spies, so maybe they will get some sort of Civilian Basilica to replace the Intelligence Agency) that may have the UB versions.

For example, if we get Archery Range, I'm pretty sure the Totem Pole will be a UB version of that.

...a harbor that grants a free great merchant...

Did I seriously write that? I meant a free merchant specialist, not a great merchant. I have to go to bed if I'm doing stuff like that. ;)

A free merchant from harbours would be overpowered, the bulding just comes too early.
But it's a good idea for a drydock UB.

Ziggurat for Babylon, replacing temple.

I also want a Ziggurat for Babylon, but the problem with replacing a temple is that it would allow for a total of seven Ziggurat's in each total.

I was thinking to enable the Ziggurat UB to replace a temple, why can't the first temple built be a ziggurat, and then any religious temple built after that will just remain a temple dedicated to the religion.

or

If you have multiple temples in a city, only the temple that belongs to the state religion will be a ziggurat. It would be tougher for Babylon to build its UB in each city because it would require the state religion to be present, but this could be offset by making the UB worthwhile to build.

That might work, Babylonian Ziggurat.. Replaces Temple
+1 Happy, +1 culture, allows 1 Priest
+X effect if The Ziggurat is of the State Religion

So the Babylonians have 7 Ziggurats, but only 1 is any different from a Temple.

If you have multiple temples in a city, only the temple that belongs to the state religion will be a ziggurat. It would be tougher for Babylon to build its UB in each city because it would require the state religion to be present, but this could be offset by making the UB worthwhile to build.

That is a unique idea, right there, and a way to balance out the effect of all those state religions (and thus all those UBs). Still, you could circumvent the problem entirely if the Ziggurat was a Courthouse replacement with an additional effect (say an extra maintenance reduction).

Any new civilizations worthy of a UB that increases military unit production? I don't think we have one of those yet...

I want some whipping bonuses ! ... While the + happy faces/ Health is nice it does seem a bit boring.

I imagine there is going to be a new building , that will allow you to build spies and it will come early. There you may get your faster production bonus Ub , or maybe the Spy will start with more exp . For which civilization though ?

Merchants also come a bit late , a Ub that replaces a new building that will be nice.

Third , i would like an Ub that allows religion to spread , faster.

I think that UB that gets additional bonuses from resources is something they could do .

What could be a khmer UB ?
Tuol Sleng?

Other buildings include Public Transportation, Industrial Parks, and Levees.

Well, I suppose this makes it kind of obvious what the dutch UB will be..

Got to wonder what's so great about a unique Levee. I'm thinking it'll only give some culture (for the fact that the levee system politically unified the low countries, despite being diverse peoples, via a "common enemy", and the whole "little dutch boy" myth :lol: ). I think they deserve a market/bank.

Well, I suppose this makes it kind of obvious what the dutch UB will be..

Probably the dutch Levees UB will provide food.

well either babylon or Sumeria could get a Ziggurat and maybe the Totem pole will just replace a normal barrack

My guesses would have to be:

Netherlands: Bourse - replaces Bank (dykes being to weird to implement on top of existing buildings..)
Being dutch, i would love to know what a bourse is :lol:
I think it can only be either a seafaring replacement(replaces harbor or lighthouse) or watermanagement (dike, windmill or the dutch waterworks)

Wouldn't it be cool if the dutch civ could reclaim land from water :D

I also want a Ziggurat for Babylon, but the problem with replacing a temple is that it would allow for a total of seven Ziggurat's in each total.

I was thinking to enable the Ziggurat UB to replace a temple, why can't the first temple built be a ziggurat, and then any religious temple built after that will just remain a temple dedicated to the religion.

or

If you have multiple temples in a city, only the temple that belongs to the state religion will be a ziggurat. It would be tougher for Babylon to build its UB in each city because it would require the state religion to be present, but this could be offset by making the UB worthwhile to build.

Another possibility could be a temple that isn't connected with any religion at all. Like an ancient or pagan temple giving +1 culture, +1 happy, can turn a citizen into priest. So you could build at maximum 7 normal temples + 1 additional free one. Allthough practically its nearly impossible to get 7 religions in the same city. Or if you failed to get a religion, research priesthood build the ancient temple and still get culture, happiness and priest points.
There is a temple like this in the Fall from Heaven 2 Mod by Kael and others.

Well, I suppose this makes it kind of obvious what the dutch UB will be.. But they would probably have put it in the UB section.

It's a horrible name, and it's borrowed from French.
Apparently changing the name glorified it somehow.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amsterdam_Stock_Exchange

I mostly think of oversea Dutch trading posts and plantations/farms when I think of the golden age of the Dutch.

Being dutch, i would love to know what a bourse is :lol:
I think it can only be either a seafaring replacement(replaces harbor or lighthouse) or watermanagement (dike, windmill or the dutch waterworks)

Wouldn't it be cool if the dutch civ could reclaim land from water :D

Something that just crossed my mind:
Everyone seems to believe that the Totem Pole will replace the Monument, and I agree that this would really be fitting, but isn't it possible that Firaxis will add a new Archery Range building to increase exp for new Archery units similar to the Stable for mounted units ?
This would give more emphasis to Archers for leaders who are not Protective, and Crossbowmen would be more useful. It would also make Archery a more relevant tech. I rarely bother to research it before Archers go obsolete, pre-Feudalism my cities are protected by Axeman/Spearman teams. When I have Feudalism I can buy Archery or research it in 1-3 turns.
The Totem Pole could replace the Archery Range and be the archers equivalent of the Mongol Ger.

Another possibility could be a temple that isn't connected with any religion at all. Like an ancient or pagan temple giving +1 culture, +1 happy, can turn a citizen into priest. So you could build at maximum 7 normal temples + 1 additional free one. Allthough practically its nearly impossible to get 7 religions in the same city. Or if you failed to get a religion, research priesthood build the ancient temple and still get culture, happiness and priest points.
There is a temple like this in the Fall from Heaven 2 Mod by Kael and others.

No it's not. I've done it. But that was in a city that was like, the holy city for 3 religions.

Native Americans: Totem Pole (Monument)

Netherlands: Dike (Levee)

Portugal: Iberian Dry Dock (Harbor)

Byzantium: Knight's Learning Center (University)

The Sumerian could be an irrigation canal replacing the levee.

Babylonian should be the Ziggurat replacing the temple of the state religion. When you convert to free religion it would become an ordinary temple. It could produce a science point in addition to the other bonuses.

The Dutch building should replace Drydock, Market or Bank and increase commerce or remove the anarchy time on economic civics. Possibly it could add a gold piece per town if the city has the special building.

Portugal's should be a navigation school and have an effect on ships built there.

Something that just crossed my mind:
Everyone seems to believe that the Totem Pole will replace the Monument, and I agree that this would really be fitting, but isn't it possible that Firaxis will add a new Archery Range building to increase exp for new Archery units similar to the Stable for mounted units ?
This would give more emphasis to Archers for leaders who are not Protective, and Crossbowmen would be more useful. It would also make Archery a more relevant tech. I rarely bother to research it before Archers go obsolete, pre-Feudalism my cities are protected by Axeman/Spearman teams. When I have Feudalism I can buy Archery or research it in 1-3 turns.
The Totem Pole could replace the Archery Range and be the archers equivalent of the Mongol Ger.

This idea has been mentioned before. I think the Stables were enough personally, but if Firaxis feels the need to add an extra barracks-style building for every single type of unit, well...whatever. Then the Totem Pole would seem to be its replacement.

I still use archers in the early game, but I'm only a Prince player. :p

A shipyard (the graphics already exist from some Warlords scenarios) could be an option for early naval expertise. Then the Portugese UB could be a Navigation School to replace the shipyard. The Dutch Dyke could replace the new levee building.

Having more than one UB replace a building class is fine I think but Firaxis seemed to have through a lot of trouble in Warlords to not let that happen so who knows...

Well if they stay with no duplicates, that means
10 new buildings (unless some existing buildings are used)

Some possibilities for existing buildings

Religious ones... either a
'non religious option' not really a replacement OR
Ones with benefits that only apply if they are the state religion OR
Ones with benefits that don't stack (ie provides resource)

So looking at the options, as some possible 'Base Buildings':* if in known game
*Native American=Archery Range
*Dutch=Corporation*
*Portugese=Drydock*/Shipyard [Navigation School]
*Babylonians=Temple* [Ziggurat]
*Sumerians=Levee* [Irrigation]
*Mayans=Monastery* [Astrological Observatory]
*Byzantines=Hospital*/Artillery Field
SE Asia=Industrial Park*
Ethiopia=Cathedral*
Israel=Security Bureau*/Airport* [chosen because that seems the only real other option for a modern non-european civ]

Religious ones... either a
'non religious option' not really a replacement OR
Ones with benefits that only apply if they are the state religion OR
Ones with benefits that don't stack (ie provides resource)


I don't think it is that hard to balance a religious UB, even when the boni stack.
How much Temples/Monastries does a city have in CIV ?
In most cases it is 1-3, and with three religions in a city it is already difficult to spread a fourth or fifth. You CAN have 7 religions in a city, but you'll need to sacrifice a lot of Missionaries and invest a lot of production. It is something people only do when they want a cultural victory .

Byzantim for example could have a monastry with 3 :culture: and a minor bonus like + 1 :science: . One such monastry would be weak, three would already be pretty good but still not overpowered compared to the Ikhanda or Hamman. More than 4 would be unbalanced but you'll see this in less then 10% of your games.

I'd rather see them just use the ordinary buildings instead of worrying about it in the first place. We'll see.

I think a barracks that gives +20% military unit production would be wicked.

Wicked, or overpowered? :p That would be too much of an advantage. Interesting, though.

I want to see some ideas that are new for unique buildings. I'm already surprised by the wonders--no anarchy from civic switching? Double the war weariness of your attackers? Those are innovative. I'm hoping there will be a similar touch given to the new UBs as well.

We don't have a UB right now that simply boosts military unit production. That's a decent idea, methinks.
How about an early UB that reduces war weariness?

That I could go for. War weariness has never been a problem in any of my early games, but with proper civic rebalancing that could be a major feature.

Other ideas:

- Buildings/Wonders that reduce unit upgrade cost? Just like Leonardo's Workshop in previous Civ games.

- Wonders that give a global modifier to your state religion spread?

- Increased unit support? Building X gives you the ability to make more units. (Sort of like Vassalage, I admit, but it could be useful.)

- Increased health in all cities, like Longevity or Cure for Cancer.

- Increased diplomatic modifiers with all civs (U.N.-like). I suppose the AP already does this in some fashion.

- Wonders that automatically generate free units, or grant X units upon completion. Now building the Manhattan Project will actually be useful, since you could get 5 free nukes when you build it.

That I could go for. War weariness has never been a problem in any of my early games, but with proper civic rebalancing that could be a major feature.

Other ideas:

- Buildings/Wonders that reduce unit upgrade cost? Just like Leonardo's Workshop in previous Civ games.

- Wonders that give a global modifier to your state religion spread?

- Increased unit support? Building X gives you the ability to make more units. (Sort of like Vassalage, I admit, but it could be useful.)

- Increased health in all cities, like Longevity or Cure for Cancer.

- Increased diplomatic modifiers with all civs (U.N.-like). I suppose the AP already does this in some fashion.

- Wonders that automatically generate free units, or grant X units upon completion. Now building the Manhattan Project will actually be useful, since you could get 5 free nukes when you build it.



- Increased unit support? Building X gives you the ability to make more units. (Sort of like Vassalage, I admit, but it could be useful.)

IMO , they will have one such building for siege units. It makes perfect sense.



- Wonders that give a global modifier to your state religion spread?

I also like this idea.

Well, there are wonders that give a modifier to your religion spread... Church of the Nativity, Temple of Solomon, etc. :mischief: But these require a Great Prophet to build, and their primary uses are the extra line of sight in cities and income, not the increased spread.

Extra line of sight is acquired simply by having a state religion and a holy city (same religion), though--unless you are referring to the extra stuff you can see because that wonder spreads your religion.

It's a horrible name, and it's borrowed from French.
Apparently changing the name glorified it somehow.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amsterdam_Stock_Exchange

I mostly think of oversea Dutch trading posts and plantations/farms when I think of the golden age of the Dutch.
:wow: So it was actually a word, I thought it was a misspelling of "Beurs" what it is called nowadays :blush:

I just hope the portuguese DO have both a ship UU and a harbour/dock type UB. Sure it could provide them with a challenge if there is no water . . . but then what about the celts on maps with little or no hill terrain?And what about UU's that require a specific resource? They are also screwed if the resource is absent.

Remember that these single building and unit replacements are NOT supposed to be huge changes in the game. You don't win or lose based entirely on them (unless your opponent is an idiot).

They just give a brief boost to one aspect of the game in one short era. . . so what if you don't get that little boost one game? I think you can handle it. After all everything else is the a same.

And maybe you'll find a use for it. Even on a pangea map we have coasts, and I like taking them first if I can. So portuguese would still be a great choice for me on a pangea. Continents or lakes too. The chances of NOT having some large body of water in the world as slim, and unlike missing IRON or OIL you know what your getting into when you choose the map type.

Seems fair to me.

okay, this ones quick, but if the SE Asian civ turns out to be Vietnam, everyone whos ever been to a Vietnamese restaurant will know what the UB will be: Pho House

I hope the native americans DON'T have another mounted UU, American indians never rode horses until the europeans brought them. There were horses in america prior to that, but the indians ate them, along with the camels and giant sloths.

I'd prefer to see an archery unit, or a fast moving scout with a bonus against megafauna (or just barb animals), anything that has NOTHING to do with horses.

i think the sioux rode horses.

do you think ub in captured cities should stay ub? that would add some flavour to conqests of a particular civ in particular age...

I do think the UB's in captured cities should remain UB's, it would make a difference and be fun.

The sioux did ride horses, but the sioux were a recent, post-colonization culture. Their ancestors were actually settled farmers, heirs to the much older mound builder civilizations along the ohio and mississippi river valleys.

Sioux took a lot from the white settlers, the cherokee took even more having farms, slaves, and plantation. Having the sioux and cherokee specifically have horses would make sense. "Native Americans" though suggests their own independent civilizations. The mound builders, the Iroquois, and the Pueblo specifically, but also perhaps the kingdom of hawii, and the meso-american civilizations such as the Aztecs and the Maya.

The Sumerian could be an irrigation canal replacing the levee.

Babylonian should be the Ziggurat replacing the temple of the state religion. When you convert to free religion it would become an ordinary temple. It could produce a science point in addition to the other bonuses.

The Dutch building should replace Drydock, Market or Bank and increase commerce or remove the anarchy time on economic civics. Possibly it could add a gold piece per town if the city has the special building.

Portugal's should be a navigation school and have an effect on ships built there.

My guess the Dutch will get a dyke replacing the levee.

HRE - perhaps a Barracks/Stable to produce knights or, in the other direction - some religious building.

Barracks that give/allow a priest specialist with some culture? There's a funky building...really shows where your priorities are. :)