Hello everyone. If we can all take a bit to rememebr back to our previous Noble Game Challenge, we all know it didn't turn out so well. First off, I'm sorry for the lack of updates on that game. My internet was down for a few days, got caught up in finals week and problems with my girlfreind. However, thats all taken care of.

Instead of starting back up on that horrible Washington game, I have decided on a fresh new start with a new Noble Game Challenge.:goodjob: Taking the advice of the previous game, I will do my best to provide as much information as I can, and also explain some mechanics of the game that some of the lower level players may not know(thats why it's a noble game).

After getting a few PM's regarding a leader for our new game, I have decided to use Stalin, leader of the Russian empire. The reason for this choice is that Stalin is the most flexible leader of the Russians. With the Aggresive and Industrious traits, what do you go for? Pure military might? A builder in order to grab all of those new wonders? The choice lies with all of us :king:.

Of course, before we can start it, lets talk about possible victory choices for Stalin. With his Agressive Trait, a strong military can help us greatly for a conquest or domination victory. Then again, with our later Unique building, the Research Institute, a possible space race might just be within our grasp.

So fellow civers, can we get this NGC kick started again and show that Stalin can be used in both possible ways?

Never played Stalin so sounds interesting. My only gripe from the last NGC was that you went from, "OK here we are building catapults" to "And now we have conquered 2 civs" or that's what it felt like from the write-up. But I appreciate the time it takes and real-life issues etc. Maybe you need to pace things a little slower. Don't treat this as your current game, more of an occasional hobby game in which you have some interest. My 2p anyway. Good work though.

Thanks, I know that with the last game I suddenly rushed through from catapults to war. I am very sorry for that, I'll be sure to not let it happen again.
I'll also be sure to take this a bit slower and explain the pros and cons to researching certain techs, and other diplomatic issues that we could all discuss.

I'll be sure to make this a great game for everyone :)

Good stuff, I'll definitely chip in but by the time I was going to it was all over.

Aggressive, it could be all over by the middle ages. Maybe you should demonstrate an early Oracle (2nd city) - Code of Laws for early large empire through conquest aiming for domination or tech away while remaining relatively peaceful while working towards a space race? Either of those should work on Noble.

Additional: I think the key things you need to address with the readers before going to beat up on the enemy are:

1) Are we strong enough to attack (my common failing when I played Noble)
2) When to stop attacking and extort stuff for peace
3) How much defence do we need before moving our army abroad. Do we need archery, etc. or will a couple of axes do the job? Can we skip parts of the tech tree to get an attacking advantage, in other words.

All right! Good to se you back in the saddle, Sryth.

Don't forget to mention stalin's starting tech, UU, and UB. Stalin starts out with hunting and mining, meaning archers and the 'mids are just a hop, skip, and a jump away. The Oracle-Col slingshot is an excellent one in order to found a religion and grab courthouses. I don't agree that we can win in the medival ages; the longbowman simply are too persistent to overcome without about 10 cats. Stalin, however, gets the cossack as a UU. Even though it got nerfed in warlords, it's still powerful, so it can help punch through if you beeline to MT. Therefore, music will be a priority as well as a prereq. There fore, I reccomend starting an HE and, directly after oracle-CoL and 'mids, planning on conquering the world by late renaissance-Early industrial.:mwaha: :ar15: :ar15:

Get the show on the road. Good luck in advance.

If all out aggression is the plan I'd say the game could be won with cats and maces, depends upon map settings though. Continents might be a good idea so the game isn't all over before your UU gets to make an appearance.

We can start the game later. The map settings will be Noble, Epic, Fractal(more fun IMO) Standard Size.

As said before by Hackapell, we might not be able to crush everyone by the medieval ages, however with a good start, by that time we can have wiped off at least 2 others. The Russian UU, the cossack, is a very powerful unit. At some point in the game, we will have to get Horse back riding. We can always just trade for this later on in game. Music is also important, as it is a prereq to Military Tradition. If were lucky, we might be able to get music first for a free Great Artist(probably won't happen, but you never know)

Also, since Stalin has the Industrious trait, going for the oracle for CoL can be very helpful. A Religon and courthouses are always a plus. The courthouses can be used in the cities we conquer using our Aggresive trait.

I find that during the renaissance is when attacks pick up steam and annihalate the enemy, so two civs by approx. 1400 sounds like a plan, with the rest of the world to follow.
CE or SE? that will probably become the question of the week during play. If you want to conquer early and end by about 1750, SE/FE will probably be our economy of choice, Since CE without finacial tends to lag until LIberalism/Democracy.

I'm not a big fan of HBR until it is really needed. I just pick it up before guilds or MT if I need a bit of a booster horse wise. If you get near to MT it only takes a couple of turns to research anyway. Chariots are more useful than horse archers in Warlords. I'd rather get a more useful tech which always seems to be something like drama (combat unhappiness), engineering (gotta love the extra road movement), or a naval tech or something.

keep in mind that HBR in walords allows stables, which add 2 XP's to all muonted units, along with the barracks. Thus, HBR is actually somewhat more useful than in vanilla, since you don't have to quickly waste turns building stables later on when you should be building units.

Please get the show on the road soon! :please:

The time for us to start has come upon us..... This will be played with the latest patch for Warlords

http://i186.photobucket.com/albums/x105/Sryth21/Civ4ScreenShot0000.jpg

Our settings and other goodies..

http://i186.photobucket.com/albums/x105/Sryth21/Civ4ScreenShot0002.jpg

Before anyone states it: Yes, I am using single unit graphics(cuts down on loading time for multiplayer games)
Anyways, what a start we have here!

3 Gems and 3 sugars. We wont be able to take advantage of the sugars until we have calendar. However, we have 3 gems just crying to be used! Lucky for us, Stalin starts with mining. Hooking up those gems quickly could get us an early tech lead. Stalin also starts with Hunting, so we start with a scout instead of a warrior.

Where to place our first city? I suggest that we settle 1 spot N of the settler and settle in the forest. I would also move our scout 1 N to the hill and see what we could possibly find. Well ladies and gentleman, it has begun!

Holy Moley that's a good start. If you put the city on the forest, you lose the 0.5 health and ability to chop it later, plus you get 2 extra jungles. I say settle in place. I'd also move the scout SW first to see if there are any other advantages to settling in place. Of course, in place is 1 tile away from the coast which isn't great. It's debatable.

So Stalin starts with mining? If so I'd get a worker out ASAP, first build to get the gems.

:eek:

WOW, WHAT AN AWESOME START!!!!

I seriously envy you. that is going to make one heck of a good commerce city. otherwise, your plan sounds fine. start with a worker, then barracks, then scout, then settler.

A barracks before a scout? I'd only build a barracks if I wanted some decent attacking units. At least scouts can run away and they're only going to face animals at the start.

I say: worker, warrior, warrior (until reaches pop 2), worker or settler, depending on whether there is a good city site spotted nearby.

What are you going to tech first? Bronze Working?

Once you get out that second city by whipping a settler, dont whip again....why?...Because once youre working all 3 gems, youll out research everyone. If there was ever a case for a Civil Service slingshot, this is it. Get your basic techs out of the way, research to priesthood with a possible stop to Mono. Theres no way youll get beat to mono. Free religion and a 25% production boost. Get Writing, Math, and COL...time Code of laws to finish before or on the same turn as oracle. Take Civil Service and the game is well in hand.

Going for Mono and getting the sling is a lil iffy, so if you take out mono, the CS sling is easier.

:eek:

WOW, WHAT AN AWESOME START!!!!


Only in Noble...:scan:

A sugar without an improvement gives you 3 food, since it's near a river you can farm it and it'll provide 4 food, their like floodplains without the unhealthiness.

How I'd play as Stalin is, Oracle Slingshot to Metal Casting for those cheap Forges and whip/build forges quickly and amass an army and go conquering. All units and buildings can be produced quicker with forges in those cities.

Awesome start.

I would not move. As Paradigmshifter says, moving north sticks you with jungle and a low-value plains hill tile without giving you much in compensation. Your current location is good-to-excellent... the only drawback I see is that it's not a port, but that's not a big deal.

Early Worker, definitely. Tastes vary, but I would suggest a second Scout (to grab an extra hut or two, and explore faster) followed by a Worker once the city has grown to size 2.

Tech: you need Agriculture to farm that sugar, so this should be an early priority, either your first or second tech. Later you will need the Wheel to hook up the sugar and gems, but you won't need the health and happiness bonuses for many centuries yet, so this is not a high priority. (And after Calendar you'll plow over the farms to build plantations, but that's a long way off yet.)

Mining gives you a head start on Bronze Working, the best tech in the early game. This should be an early priority, because it unlocks so many options -- chopping, whipping, Axemen and Spearmen. Most of all it shows you where the Copper is, so you can grab it before all rivals.

So, I would say Agriculture for your first tech, followed by BW.

Note that this means you are giving up on early religion. I think this makes sense playing Stalin. Still, there is a slight risk -- we must hope that a neighbor founds an early religion for us.

If yes, then great; we either wait for it to spread peacefully, or go and take their Holy City. If no neighbor founds a religion, then Oracle slingshot to Code of Laws for sure. The nearby Gems make this decision easier -- you won't have to worry about happiness for a while, so you won't need a religion quite so soon.

Watching with interest,


Waldo

moving north gives you waaaaay more workable titles and an insane comerce capital for later... The starting position is better for speedier growth but you do get 3 unworkable titles...

A barracks before a scout? I'd only build a barracks if I wanted some decent attacking units

Well, barracks are half price if agressive. We plan on doing warmongering, and in most of my noble games it's the only way to stay ahead. maybe a warrior instead of a scout, but I find scout to be immensly helpful for recon work. I also prefer to let my city grow to 3 before starting a settler.

on topic, an oracle strategy is the way to go, but which tech, MC or CoL? MC opens up your other cheap building, but Col gives you courthouses, mandatory for a large empire. Try to pick up agri before going on down towards priesthood, then plan on getting all the pre-reqs for one of the techs, either Col or MC.

On Epic speed it is easy to do an Oracle/Metal Casting/Forge/Great Engineer/Pyramids gambit, since you have to get 150 GPPs rather than 100 so you have 25 turns after the Oracle completes to get your forge up. Maybe that would be overkill on Noble level though.

I would like to see the scout move 2 SW, to see what is in the black. Also if you settle in place youll get at least 1 sea tile in your BFC. Moving on north would most likely only give you land tiles. Setlling 1 N would give a great production and science city.

I can't get upset over one sea tile. Is it worth losing a turn?

And, again, jungle.


Waldo

It seems that the verdict is to settle in place. The village gave us a map showing us the coast to the west of us.

http://i186.photobucket.com/albums/x105/Sryth21/Civ4ScreenShot0003.jpg

The plan for right now seems to be, get out a worker to hook up our mines. For our research, I would say Agriculture, BronzeWorking, The Wheel. Should we then beeline to preisthood for our oracle? If that is the case, do we oracle to code of laws or to metal casting?

If you do an Oracle, I guess it depends on how many cities you have re: Code of Laws vs. Metal Casting, and whether you get a religion or not on the way to Priesthood. No religion or cities requiring courthouses, I'd go for CoL. Otherwise, Metal Casting for the forge/Pyramids thing, since you have more time to do that on Epic. Free Pyramids are too good to pass up.

Agriculture then BW, agreed.

I would farm the sugar before working the mines. Building a Worker first is going to stunt your early growth, so you need to catch up as fast as possible.

The Oracle: wow, tough choice. Normally Code of Laws is preferred. Although it's worth less beakers than Metal Casting, it's really a more valuable tech: it founds a religion, gives you Courthouses, and opens up the Caste System option. Since you aren't founding an early religion, normally this would be a no-brainer.

But! You are playing an Industrious leader. That means _cheap forges_. Metal Casting lets you build those forges fast, giving you an extra 25% production in your cities forever. This is very tempting.

In the early game you don't need religion, but by the midgame you really do -- for the happiness bonus, for the buildings, and for the civics. So, founding Confucianism would be very helpful...

... but cheap forges! You can run Engineers early, and get a shot at Great Engineers!

Yeah, tough choice.

Here's my $.02: explore and see if you have a neighbor who's founded a religion. If yes, go to Open Borders as soon as possible and hope the religion spreads. If not, make that neighbor target #1. If the neighbor is not a good target -- too far away, or has an early UU -- then get Code of Laws. Otherwise, live large and take Metal Casting.

Of course, first you have to build your Oracle!


Waldo

If you do an Oracle, I guess it depends on how many cities you have re: Code of Laws vs. Metal Casting, and whether you get a religion or not on the way to Priesthood. No religion or cities requiring courthouses, I'd go for CoL. Otherwise, Metal Casting for the forge/Pyramids thing, since you have more time to do that on Epic. Free Pyramids are too good to pass up.

Well if you build a forge you get an extra happy citizen from gems so I don't think a Religion is that necessary unless you want shrine income, and I think we can get both MC and COLs... while you build your forges and your Army you beeline to COLs pretty quickly with all those Gems worked and declare war at the turn you get COLs or the turn you capture a City.

pop the hut with your scout. the tech path seems fine; you may also want to pick up IW so you can farm the other two sugars. I'm beginning to lean towards MC; free pyramids are awesome, and happiness will not be a large problem with two :) resources nearby. The rice and corn will mitigate most of your health problems from your forges, and they will let your city grow. forges also add a :) to your city with gems, so the only reason to grab Col would be for the courthouses, but by then you will have probably conquered much of your continent and several religions, hopefully. Let's hope for Izzy on that one :queen:

The time for us to start has come upon us..... This will be played with the latest patch for Warlords

Before anyone states it: Yes, I am using single unit graphics(cuts down on loading time for multiplayer games)
Anyways, what a start we have here!

3 Gems and 3 sugars. We wont be able to take advantage of the sugars until we have calendar. However, we have 3 gems just crying to be used! Lucky for us, Stalin starts with mining. Hooking up those gems quickly could get us an early tech lead. Stalin also starts with Hunting, so we start with a scout instead of a warrior.

Where to place our first city? I suggest that we settle 1 spot N of the settler and settle in the forest. I would also move our scout 1 N to the hill and see what we could possibly find. Well ladies and gentleman, it has begun!

I saved your file and played until 595 BC. I'd be interested to compare your moves (and those of other more experienced players) with mine.

I forgot about cheap forges. I'd definitely go for Metal Casting from the Oracle. Make sure you go for polytheism instead of meditation after mysticism (I expect both religions will have been founded by then anyway), you need polytheism for literature, and the Great Library is another wonder worth getting for sure. You can pick up mysticism very cheaply just before you get philospophy.

Make sure you go for polytheism instead of meditation after mysticism (I expect both religions will have been founded by then anyway), you need polytheism for literature, and the Great Library is another wonder worth getting for sure. You can pick up mysticism very cheaply just before you get philospophy
:dubious: But you need mysticism before priesthood! Maybe you mean meditation?

Yep, I meant meditation, sorry. EDIT: First sentence was what I meant, the second sentence was wrong.

It's also a good point about polytheism; I have a tendency to research meditation because IIRC, it's cheaper, when I beline to the Oracle. thanks for that: I was simply confused.

The hut in front of our scout was nice enough to give us the wheel. This means we can hook up our resources faster. After a little bit more fogbusting, we came across this...

http://i186.photobucket.com/albums/x105/Sryth21/Civ4ScreenShot0006.jpg

I went ahead and made the switch to Slavery as we will need it for later whiping. The bad news is that we dont have nearby copper.
A little bit later on, we ran into a scout of Alexanders. We dont know where his cities are yet, but he cant be far off.

Here is where we are now..
http://i186.photobucket.com/albums/x105/Sryth21/Civ4ScreenShot0008.jpg


Now the big question now is, do we hook up our gems right away? Or do we build farms on the sugar and rice to catch up in growth. Making a worker first set our popluation back a bit. Our worker is almost done.

Farm the rice and then go for the gems I'd say. You'll want a plantation on the sugar eventually so I'd only farm it if you run out of improved tiles to work.

Has copper shown up nearby? Need to decide where to place the second city now.

Build a warrior or 2 and then get a settler going for copper I'd say. You need to post a resource map.

I'd get mysticism next, you will want monuments in your 2nd city. Either that or go for Animal Husbandry to reveal horses. Now you have the wheel you can build chariots when you hook up horses.

Sryth, are you inheriting Sisutil's magic in popping huts for tech?

How much food does a riverside sugar produce? I know an unirrigated rice produces five... I would let the city grow on the riverside sugar and rice, then switch to the three gems for research. You also, forgot to mention that you met our first vict---er, I mean, rival, Alexander. those horses won't help against phalanx, so an MC slingshot is looking better and better. a warrior is a good build, but I would follow that up with a scout for more recon and fogbusting; then start a settler. After BW, if no copper, move on to IW. If you have copper, prepare the slingshot by beelining to priesthood. Also, try to locate stone and marble for insanely fast wonders.

Alexander eh? Maybe put off Animal Husbandry until you get priesthood then. Chariots are the best against barbs though, if you have them on.

EDIT: Unless you see Alex doesn't have any copper or iron. Then a fast pummeling with chariots and axes could be in order. Alex is a bit of a loon.

My results up to 880 B.C.

I played from the save game file and decided to pull off a civil service slingshot. Yes I mean civil service! I got Mysticism from a hut and founded Hinduism.

I started to research Priesthood. I started the Oracle. I researched Pottery,
Code of Laws and Animal Husbandry.

I then researched Mathematics and tah dah! Medieval Era in 880 B.C. All thanks to the gems and my cottages. I should post a screenshot!

On the other hand, maybe I should just stick with Prince level.

What an amazing starting location.

Edit: Sryth, I like the way you are presenting the game this time. Thanks.

woah, woah woah! what just happened?:confused:

at 12:40 EST, you reported that you had popped AH and the wheel. you were 6 turns from BW and your worker was ready to roll. now you don't have animal husbandry, and no worker. What happened?:help: :dunno:

I thought I'd post some moves I made to get your thoughts. Keep in mind, this doesn't serve as advice for Syrth, but more of a comparison that I can learn from. I'll try to put the screenshots and my notes inside the spoiler function:

My notes:

1. I got only gold and one warrior group from the many huts I popped. Honestly, I don't know how you guys get all these techs from the huts! :D

Also, I managed to lose two scout units and one warrior unit while fogbusting.

2. Resources look to be a problem from what I can see. Copper is far to the north, and iron is right there for the taking for Alexander. There is an additional source of iron far to the NNW, but it's a ways from the two established cities, and Alexander is about to be able to have better access to that tile. Also, in my attached file, you see that he is also establishing a city by the copper I intended to get! :mad:

3. I wasted a couple of moves with my settler before settling St. Petersburg, but at least I now have horses which allowed for the chariots I'll need for protection from barbarians. However, I'm concerned about being to advance much in this game with the limited militaristic resources. No ivory, not much chance to gain access to copper or iron yet (and, I don't see how we can possibly fight for it as things stand).

Overall, I sense that I'm about to find myself cornered in. However, I managed to get a few things accomplished, so I thought I'd post some screenshots in addition to attaching the game file:

http://auville.com/sstocks/Civilization%20IV/Stalin%20I/Stalin%20I-20000.JPG


http://auville.com/sstocks/Civilization%20IV/Stalin%20I/Stalin%20I-30000.JPG

I'm interested to get your thoughts on what I should have done differently....

I can't get upset over one sea tile. Is it worth losing a turn?

And, again, jungle.


Waldo

losing 1 turn isn't bad. The gems will make up for it. by moving 1N we would have gained 2 hills wich could be mined. And the jungle can be cut. The ocean tiles will stay pretty ussulles for the whole game.

@sryth
Farm the rice first, then gems, With so many gems its key to let moscow grow as quicly as possiple to its largest size to work all those gems and mines.
I'd go for AH first and then Mysticism. the research of mysticism should be finished when your ready for founding your second city.

I'd go for AH & Pottery before IW, I don't know how early the AI barbs come online on Noble level, but better play it safe defending your cities with Chariots.

Pottery is optional but with those Gem, you probly won't need Pottery, but it's good pratice to research Pottery before IW to work cottages for comemrce and research.

The AI on this level are generally slow at building wonders do don't worry too much about delaying Preisthood for key worker techs and military techs like IW because there's no point in building a wonder first and then you realize the barbs are come pillaging or an AI decides to rush you like Alex.

kindly requesting an update...:scan:

:bump:

:coffee: :coffee: :coffee: :coffee: :coffee: :coffee: :coffee: :coffee: :coffee:

:badcomp: :gripe: :wallbash:

I picked up this start and played on with my favorite variant ; no cottages, no specialists. Not optimal, just a bit interesting.

It's going well at 1200 AD.

Alex dead, Hatty on the way out. Will go for domination probably. A lot of water in the map makes Astronomy and galleons a must.


Syrth , are you going to keep going?

If you are farming first farm the sugar before the rice. Unirrigated rice only gives 4 food and the sugars will give you that plus the commerce bonus. Plus you protect them from potential jungle incursion which, while eventually clearable is obviously a short term pain.

I'm sorry you didn't move one north. Plains hills are not subpar tiles regardless of what some believe. In the early game, food/production is king and no matter how much food you have you can't constantly whip because of the unhappiness so good stagnation options are important.

Having an extra tree for chopping is often good in the early game though... or am I mistaken? I like to speed a worker or settler along with a nice chop.

Farm the rice and then go for the gems I'd say. You'll want a plantation on the sugar eventually so I'd only farm it if you run out of improved tiles to work.


It looks like you wont get any fresh water to the rice anytime soon so:
Farming the rice = 4 food
Farming the sugar = 4 food 1 commerce.
Obvious which one is better :)
And you should aim to get the city to size 3 as soon as possible to work all gems. So farm at least one square and grow! ;)

Good tips, I'm learning. I seldom improve plantation tiles before calendar guess that makes me somewhat of a newb. What about the settling on a forest point though? Just seems you lose 0.5 health and a chop for no production gain. I'd rather settle on a plains hill.

Having an extra tree for chopping is often good in the early game though... or am I mistaken? I like to speed a worker or settler along with a nice chop.

But those trees don't need to be in your borders.

But those trees don't need to be in your borders.

True but you don't get as many hammers for chopping outside you big fat cross or even worse outside your cultural borders.

From memory I think it's 24 hammers (with maths, on normal) one tile outside the cities BFC, and -6 hammers every tile further than that.

But overall production would have increased by settling on the forrest, by gaining 2 hills.
Sryth, are you still playing? when is the update?

Hackaspell mentioned in the other Stalin thread that he was a voracious learner, and was disappointed that this thread didn't progress.

In the interest of learning I thought I'd post a few saves from this game that I did with no cottages and no specialists.

If you're learning to dominate at noble or prince it's a good exercise to do because it shows you how much commerce there is out there without cottages. Cottages are great of course but it's good to realize all the other sources of income.

With big hammers and food you can really push the AI around. New cities build gold until they can contribute more. Courts get whipped, a lot gets whipped.

Pillage gold is often needed to get to currency in order to build gold.

But with this start ,and Collosus, pillaging was almost not needed.
Later in the game pillaging can pay for your upgrades as you go.

http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/82126/pillage.JPG

I keep most cities and just whip them and build gold.

Once you can do this, you just add a couple of cottage farms and a specialist farm to your econ at the right time and you are playing close to optimal for a domination win.

thanks for that, mice, but unfortunately, I have a mac and no warlords:(
I'm really sorry no one's updated this thread yet. I actually want to see the Noble Challenge game become a reality, because I feel that's the level most of the prople here are on, and not so much the really good players who beat deity without much effort. I also feel that most people don't spend a ton of time micromanaging and just want to play the game, not go through all the calculations needed to win at the highest levels. therefore, I think I will go ahead and set up a new challenge sometime this weekend, that is,if everyone is OK with vanilla.

Go for it, I found Noble level to be a tad too easy though (although I do like to check my cities every turn), won Prince a few times, getting beaten up badly at Monarch. I've only had the game 3 months or so, but I did like a bit of Advance Wars on the GBA so that got my TBS head going.

Good idea Hackapell. I'll chip in if I have anything to add.

I agree that a lot of people play at Noble and Prince.

Vanilla is fine. Warlords will be obselte in a few months anyway.

I'm not a noble player ( still losing 30% of my monarch games :( ), but I was expecting to see this rolling ( for the sake of the 75% ( if I recall well ) of the member of civfanatics forums that play Prince or below ( there was a poll sometime ago)), because ther are some tactics and gambits that you can do in Noble that you can't do on higher levels, like Oracle Philo ( big move) or warrior rush ( even on Prince this works, if done properly).

May I do a suggestion? Do a open game. One organizer posts a game , people play it, post on spoilers their conclusions and results ( for not disturbing other people games) and discuss the results in the end. Less work for the organizers than a ALC or EMC/IC style thread ( Aelf and Sisiutl do a hard work) and a space for discussion and learning.

That sounds pretty similar to GOTMs though, those are educational too. This months WOTM game (my first, and first conquest win!) was only my second Prince win, and it was easy.

Gauntlets are also good for advice even if everyones map and civ combos are different.

I'd like this series to continue, I feel I have some contributions to make unlike aelf and Sisutil's games which are higher level than I would be comfortable with. I agree it is a lot of effort though.

I was thinking in something more like the Lonely Hearths Club: it started like the ALC, but with so many spoilers, it became more like the GOTM, in spite of willpax still posts like no one else is playing ( he even spoils his rounds, to not mess with the shadows :crazyeye: )

The time for us to start has come upon us..... This will be played with the latest patch for Warlords

http://i186.photobucket.com/albums/x105/Sryth21/Civ4ScreenShot0000.jpg

Our settings and other goodies..

http://i186.photobucket.com/albums/x105/Sryth21/Civ4ScreenShot0002.jpg

Before anyone states it: Yes, I am using single unit graphics(cuts down on loading time for multiplayer games)
Anyways, what a start we have here!

3 Gems and 3 sugars. We wont be able to take advantage of the sugars until we have calendar. However, we have 3 gems just crying to be used! Lucky for us, Stalin starts with mining. Hooking up those gems quickly could get us an early tech lead. Stalin also starts with Hunting, so we start with a scout instead of a warrior.

Where to place our first city? I suggest that we settle 1 spot N of the settler and settle in the forest. I would also move our scout 1 N to the hill and see what we could possibly find. Well ladies and gentleman, it has begun!

OMFG THAT START! You even start with mining, grassland gems on a river, man! Just mine the gems and then tech ahead a few techs from all the beakers moscow will give you, then get the oracle with industrious to jump way ahead.

should be easy!

OMFG THAT START! You even start with mining, grassland gems on a river, man! Just mine the gems and then tech ahead a few techs from all the beakers moscow will give you, then get the oracle with industrious to jump way ahead.

should be easy!

My thoughts exactly! 5 :commerce: and 1 :hammers: per improved mine ... over the next 3 city growths, you'd be so far ahead on tech/commerce! You got a great advantage - might as well use it!