Well, it's been a very long time since I last posted a quiz. :) So to complement Vrylakas' recent one, here's mine. 12 questions; from memory, so the answers might be off by a little.

1) The Mongols overran Xixia and also the Jin empire in North China relatively quickly. However, they would take about a generation to conquer the last of the three feuding kingdoms within China proper, the Southern Song. Why and in the end, how?

2) The Ming dynasty originally had its capital at Nanjing, which is in the Lower Yangzi, which in turn was the original power base of the Hongwu emperor when he founded the dynasty. Why was the capital eventually moved to Beijing later? Answered

3) The Manchus organized their military assets in the form of Banners. What were these and how many? Answered

4) When, how and why Buddhism took root in China, the only foreign religion to pervasively permeat all levels of the Chinese polity? Semi-answered

5) Why was the Tang so powerful militarily (at least in the beginning)?

6) Which was the first European power to sign a treaty with China? What treaty was this? Answered

7) Why and how did the Qin dynasty manage to unify the Chinese and form the first great Chinese empire? Answered

8) How did the Silk Road begin?

9) Who or what was Xixia (or Hsi-hsia)? Answered

10) Why did the Sui collapse?

11) The first emperor of the Song was a general in the preceding Eastern Zhou dynasty. How did he become emperor and consolidate imperial rule? Answered

12) The Song would make a major devastating error during the waning days of their arch-enemy, the Qidan Liao (which would be repeated again later :rolleyes: ). What was this error? Answered

Good luck! :D

Originally posted by Knight-Dragon
4) When, how and why Buddhism took root in China, the only foreign religion to pervasively permeat all levels of the Chinese polity?
IIRC, 4th century BC? Whenever it happened, monks from India spread the teaching to southeastern china, whence it was adopted and spread further afield by the chinese themselves. I don't remember much about why it was adopted; It was not counter to already predominant beliefs, yet added new layers of concepts about the afterlife and purpose that had appeal.
Originally posted by Knight-Dragon
7) Why and how did the Qin dynasty manage to unify the Chinese and form the first great Chinese empire?
I used to know this, but sadly have long since forgotten... :(

Originally posted by Knight-Dragon
Well, it's been a very long time since I last posted a quiz. :) So to complement Vrylakas' recent one, here's mine. 12 questions; from memory, so the answers might be off by a little.

1) The Mongols overran Xixia and also the Jin empire in North China relatively quickly. However, they would take about a generation to conquer the last of the three feuding kingdoms within China proper, the Southern Song. Why and in the end, how?

2) The Ming dynasty originally had its capital at Nanjing, which is in the Lower Yangzi, which in turn was the original power base of the Hongwu emperor when he founded the dynasty. Why was the capital eventually moved to Beijing later?

3) The Manchus organized their military assets in the form of Banners. What were these and how many?

4) When, how and why Buddhism took root in China, the only foreign religion to pervasively permeat all levels of the Chinese polity?

5) Why was the Tang so powerful militarily (at least in the beginning)?

6) Which was the first European power to sign a treaty with China? What treaty was this?

7) Why and how did the Qin dynasty manage to unify the Chinese and form the first great Chinese empire?

8) How did the Silk Road begin?

9) Who or what was Xixia (or Hsi-hsia)?

10) Why did the Sui collapse?

11) The first emperor of the Song was a general in the preceding Eastern Zhou dynasty. How did he become emperor and consolidate imperial rule?

12) The Song would make a major devastating error during the waning days of their arch-enemy, the Qidan Liao (which would be repeated again later :rolleyes: ). What was this error?

Good luck! :D


2)It was moved because it allowed them to keep an eye better over the mongols and stepp barbarians.

6)Portugal, I guess.

Originally posted by Sodak
4) When, how and why Buddhism took root in China, the only foreign religion to pervasively permeat all levels of the Chinese polity?

IIRC, 4th century BC? Whenever it happened, monks from India spread the teaching to southeastern china, whence it was adopted and spread further afield by the chinese themselves. I don't remember much about why it was adopted; It was not counter to already predominant beliefs, yet added new layers of concepts about the afterlife and purpose that had appeal.Nope, not the 4th century BC. It was much later. Actually I wasn't too sure myself why way did Buddhism spread within China but that wasn't the answer I am looking for. :)

7) Why and how did the Qin dynasty manage to unify the Chinese and form the first great Chinese empire?

I used to know this, but sadly have long since forgotten... :(Then this'll be a good time to refresh your memory. :)

Originally posted by Kublai-Khan
2) The Ming dynasty originally had its capital at Nanjing, which is in the Lower Yangzi, which in turn was the original power base of the Hongwu emperor when he founded the dynasty. Why was the capital eventually moved to Beijing later?

2)It was moved because it allowed them to keep an eye better over the mongols and stepp barbarians.That was one of the benefits of moving the capital to Beijing, but not the actual cause. ;)

6) Which was the first European power to sign a treaty with China? What treaty was this?

6)Portugal, I guess.Nope. It was the only European power recognized as a potential threat, right fr the point of contact, by the Chinese.

Chinese names are very difficult to remember!:(

Originally posted by Kublai-Khan
Chinese names are very difficult to remember!:( This comment is in relation to? :confused: Anyways, I think European surnames are as hard to remember. ;) :p Esp East European ones.....

Originally posted by Knight-Dragon
This comment is in relation to? :confused: Anyways, I think European surnames are as hard to remember. ;) :p Esp East European ones.....

Excuse me, it was a logical gap.

I bought a short book during my vacation about the history of China from the beginning to the consolidation of the qin dinasty.
And I remember most of the historical events but none of the names.

Anyway, this was like 5 months ago.

I would look at it just to remember the names but it would be cheating.;)
I thnk that it would be a good idea to reread it.



I guess that it is a matter of getting used to the names.

I have a eastern european surname:p

If you'd notice, I never once mention any Chinese person's name in my questions or require any in the answers. ;) :p I'm asking some pretty general broad-range questions. :crazyeye:

7) Simple, they conquered the other 6 kingdoms and finally united china. The first qin was the first "emperor", before that, they were all "kings".

11) This one is actually a famous story in chinese history "chen qiao bin bian" or others call it "huang pao jia shin" . Basically because the Later Zhou emperor was still a kid at this time and the people under General Song(Zhao quan ying) knew that they would no get credit if they fought for a kid so they threw a dragon robe on General Song and he became king.

Now the next story "Taking powers from officials during a whine banquet"

Re: Question 4, it was closer to the fifth and sixth century AD. Chinese travellers reached India, learned about Bhuddism and mistook it for a variant of Taoism. Effectively, China adopted Bhuddism because the first Chinese to encounter it believed it wasn't foreign at all.

It was only after translations of the Tripitaka and other works were made that the differences began to emerge clearly enough to force Chinese thinkers to adopt and modify the religon to create a distinct Chinese strain of Bhuddism.

I just finished writing a chunk of a book on Chinese printing, and those guys sure printed the hell out of Bhuddist scriptures. Bhuddism isn't very concise, is it?

Counter questions:

Who invented movable type printing in China, how many years before Gutenberg did he invent it, and what did he make the typeset out of?

R.III

Originally posted by Knight-Dragon
[B
12) The Song would make a major devastating error during the waning days of their arch-enemy, the Qidan Liao (which would be repeated again later :rolleyes: ). What was this error?
[/B]

Song allied with Jin and destroyed Liao, but Jin got most of the Jin's lands. Later Song made the same mistake to ally with Mongols against Jin. And finally the Mongols conqured Song and built Yuan Dynasty.

Originally posted by Knight-Dragon

2) The Ming dynasty originally had its capital at Nanjing, which is in the Lower Yangzi, which in turn was the original power base of the Hongwu emperor when he founded the dynasty. Why was the capital eventually moved to Beijing later?


After Hongwu Emperor died, his grandson inherited the empire and became the emperor. However, the Price Zhu Di, who garisoned at Beijing to watch on the Mongols, rebelled and later defeated the new emperor. So Zhu Di became the third emporor of Ming, and had capital at Beijing, which was his base.

Another advantage of having beijing as capital was to watch on the Mongols, which was mentioned by Kublai-khan. Also, because most of the army was stationed at northern border, Zhu Di wouldn't trust any generals to lead those army. It was better for the emporor himself to be nearby to keep an eye on the generals, rather than thousands miles away.

Originally posted by Knight-Dragon

3) The Manchus organized their military assets in the form of Banners. What were these and how many?

Manchus divided their people into banners, and each banner was both an army unit and an administrative unit. There were originally four banners, and later four more were added.

Originally posted by Knight-Dragon

6) Which was the first European power to sign a treaty with China? What treaty was this?

My guess is Russian, the treaty of Nibuchu (Nerchinsk)?

Originally posted by Knight-Dragon

9) Who or what was Xixia (or Hsi-hsia)?


Xixia was a country of Dangxiang people, at the northwest of Song, (in today's Gansu province.) Xixia, Liao, and Song fought each other for many years. Xixia was conqured by the Mongols.

Originally posted by Fallen Angel Lord
7)Why and how did the Qin dynasty manage to unify the Chinese and form the first great Chinese empire?

Simple, they conquered the other 6 kingdoms and finally united china. The first qin was the first "emperor", before that, they were all "kings".I am querying what were the causes behind it. Why the Qin and not the Chu e.g. (which was very much larger and more populous)? ;)

Originally posted by Fallen Angel Lord
11) The first emperor of the Song was a general in the preceding Eastern Zhou dynasty. How did he become emperor and consolidate imperial rule?

This one is actually a famous story in chinese history "chen qiao bin bian" or others call it "huang pao jia shin" . Basically because the Later Zhou emperor was still a kid at this time and the people under General Song(Zhao quan ying) knew that they would no get credit if they fought for a kid so they threw a dragon robe on General Song and he became king.

Now the next story "Taking powers from officials during a whine banquet"Yup, that's about it. :) General Zhao was woken up one morning while on the campaign trail by his officers, donned with the imperial robe and practically forced to be emperor.

Realizing his own precarious rise to power, he later persuaded his officers (who were now powerful lords of the land) to retire with riches and left him to consolidate his power unchallenged.

The theme of the Song had always being strong civilian control over the military; hence its military weakness vis-a-vis the surrounding barbarian kingdoms. The Song purposely weakened the frontier forces so as not to risk the rise of a potential rebellion threat fr there (bearing in mind the example fr An Lushan's {a frontier commander} rebellion during the peak of the Tang).

Originally posted by Richard III
4) When, how and why Buddhism took root in China, the only foreign religion to pervasively permeat all levels of the Chinese polity?

Re: Question 4, it was closer to the fifth and sixth century AD. Chinese travellers reached India, learned about Bhuddism and mistook it for a variant of Taoism. Effectively, China adopted Bhuddism because the first Chinese to encounter it believed it wasn't foreign at all.

It was only after translations of the Tripitaka and other works were made that the differences began to emerge clearly enough to force Chinese thinkers to adopt and modify the religon to create a distinct Chinese strain of Bhuddism.The dates are correct. :) But I didn't know about the mistake part. :eek: Not really the answer I'm thinking of.

To clarify my question, why Buddhism found such a receptive audience in China at this time.

I just finished writing a chunk of a book on Chinese printing, and those guys sure printed the hell out of Bhuddist scriptures. Bhuddism isn't very concise, is it?They still print them much nowadays. :rolleyes:

Originally posted by mcdh
12) The Song would make a major devastating error during the waning days of their arch-enemy, the Qidan Liao (which would be repeated again later). What was this error?

Song allied with Jin and destroyed Liao, but Jin got most of the Jin's lands. Later Song made the same mistake to ally with Mongols against Jin. And finally the Mongols conqured Song and built Yuan Dynasty.Bingo! :goodjob:

The Song also got greedy. Unsatisfied with their taken territories, they went to war with the Jin..... Eventually the Jin stormed the Song capital at Kaifeng, captured the emperor and conquered the North Chinese plains while the Song remnants retreated to the south and reformed as the Southern Song. :rolleyes:

Originally posted by mcdh
2) The Ming dynasty originally had its capital at Nanjing, which is in the Lower Yangzi, which in turn was the original power base of the Hongwu emperor when he founded the dynasty. Why was the capital eventually moved to Beijing later?

After Hongwu Emperor died, his grandson inherited the empire and became the emperor. However, the Price Zhu Di, who garisoned at Beijing to watch on the Mongols, rebelled and later defeated the new emperor. So Zhu Di became the third emporor of Ming, and had capital at Beijing, which was his base.

Another advantage of having beijing as capital was to watch on the Mongols, which was mentioned by Kublai-khan. Also, because most of the army was stationed at northern border, Zhu Di wouldn't trust any generals to lead those army. It was better for the emporor himself to be nearby to keep an eye on the generals, rather than thousands miles away.Bingo again! :goodjob: But as I had said, the actual reason the capital was moved was cause the Yung Lo emperor won and made his power base the capital. The watching the Mongols part was a side-cause.

One of the alleged reasons behind the huge Ming naval expeditions later on during the Yung Lo emperor's reign was to investigate a rumour that the second emperor had survived and escaped overseas. The usurper emperor obviously could not allow him to survive....

Originally posted by mcdh
6) Which was the first European power to sign a treaty with China? What treaty was this?

My guess is Russian, the treaty of Nibuchu (Nerchinsk)?Wow, I didn't expect anyone to know this. :eek: :goodjob: The treaty was made in 1683 (I think) and demarcated the Russo-Sino border in the Russian Far East along the Amur river. Later when China weakened, the Russians would break this treaty, moved further south and established Vladivostok.

The Russians were the only European power the Chinese had treated as a potential threat right fr the beginning because they came overland. China's traditional security threats were always fr the north (Mongols, Manchus etc) or west (Tibetans).

As a side-note, the Russians didn't realise the Manchu frontiersmen they met up with in the Far East were the same people who were ruling the fabled Cathay further south for some decades. ;)

Originally posted by mcdh
3) The Manchus organized their military assets in the form of Banners. What were these and how many?

Manchus divided their people into banners, and each banner was both an army unit and an administrative unit. There were originally four banners, and later four more were added.Each was also an economic and social unit. ;) But basically that's the answer I was looking for. :goodjob:

As for the number of Banners, the Manchus also organized 8 Mongol Banners and 8 Chinese Banners in addition to the 8 Manchu ones. ;) The Chinese ones were drawn fr those Chinese immigrants who had settled in Manchuria long before the Manchus ruled China. The Mongols were fr those tribes that had submitted to the Manchus.

Originally posted by mcdh
9) Who or what was Xixia (or Hsi-hsia)?

Xixia was a country of Dangxiang people, at the northwest of Song, (in today's Gansu province.) Xixia, Liao, and Song fought each other for many years. Xixia was conqured by the Mongols. Correct! :goodjob: The Tangut Tibetans set up the Xixia state along the Lor Nop bend in the Huanghe, denying this strategic territory to the Chinese. As a result, the Chinese lost their horse stud-farms in this region (akin to losing their horse resource in Civ3 :)). The Song tried for years to recapture Xixia but to no avail as a greater threat rose further east, the Qidan Liao (or Khitans).

Originally posted by Knight-Dragon
I am querying what were the causes behind it. Why the Qin and not the Chu e.g. (which was very much larger and more populous)? ;)

Cause the Chu emperor was a moron. He actually defeated Qin in its first offensive against Chu, but then Qin got it old commander back and with a rumored 600,000 troops(My guess is that is was around 150,000 at the most) , it destoryed the Chu army and conquered the country. I believe at the beginning the most powerful kingdoms were Chu first and then Qi, Qin was third. But Qin's emperor had ambition and improved his country while the others did nothing. Chu could have easily destroyed Qin while it was sieging Zhao, and Yian, but it didn't.

Originally posted by Fallen Angel Lord
Cause the Chu emperor was a moron. He actually defeated Qin in its first offensive against Chu, but then Qin got it old commander back and with a rumored 600,000 troops(My guess is that is was around 150,000 at the most) , it destoryed the Chu army and conquered the country. I believe at the beginning the most powerful kingdoms were Chu first and then Qi, Qin was third. But Qin's emperor had ambition and improved his country while the others did nothing. Chu could have easily destroyed Qin while it was sieging Zhao, and Yian, but it didn't. Regardless, it took much more for why Qin became so powerful for an originally fringe state. There were economic and 'ideological' reasons for it as well.

The Eastern Zhou period could be divided into two parts - the Chunqiu period and the Warring States (Zhanguo) period. During the former, the strongest states were Qi and Ch'in (which later broke up into Wei, Han and Zhao). During the later, the strongest state was of course Qin, followed by Chu. Chu was also a semi-Chinese frontier state which reached its fullest development during the later part of the Zhanguo period, much like Qin.

By the time Qin Shi Huang came to power, Qin was already fairly strong, he just strengthed it further. He attacked the weaker states first and took them over. By the time he attacked Chu, Qin already controlled a large part of China. Remember Chu was the sixth out of 7th to fall, Qi just surrendered after Chu was conquered. Chu should have been able to unite china, they were the strongest through much of the period. Even before Jin split into three, Chu was more powerful than Jin, they controlled the entire south.


Chu's base of strength is much older than Qin actually. Was Qin Shi Huang came to the thrown, Chu was still much stronger than Qin.

Originally posted by Knight-Dragon
Regardless, it took much more for why Qin became so powerful for an originally fringe state. There were economic and 'ideological' reasons for it as well.

The Eastern Zhou period could be divided into two parts - the Chunqiu period and the Warring States (Zhanguo) period. During the former, the strongest states were Qi and Ch'in (which later broke up into Wei, Han and Zhao). During the later, the strongest state was of course Qin, followed by Chu. Chu was also a semi-Chinese frontier state which reached its fullest development during the later part of the Zhanguo period, much like Qin.

This question is too big, and it's enough to write a dissertation upon it. :) These are some of the points I can think of,

1) Qin changed the law to improve the whole state, economic, and military systems. This was carried out by someone called Shang Yang. Note this was not done by Qin Shi Huang, but rather Qin Shi Huang kept the reformed laws.

2) The location. Qin was located northwest to the rest of the states, and seperated from them by huge mountains with only few passes. As Qin controled those passes, it was almost impossible for other states to bring wars to Qin's lands. Rather, Qin could easily went out and attack other states. This guaranteed Qin's security throughout the period.

3) Qin people was mixed by Huaxia and other minority peoples. As we all know, those minority people are more good at fighting, riding, archery, than Huaxia people. Qin Shi Huang also required all the men in his state pratice fighting since teenage. As a result, Qin soldiers's fighting effective was much better than other states' soldiers.

4) Qin's philosophy was Fa Jia, following Han Fei, rather than confusian. Fa Jia believes strict laws to prevent crime and corruptions. So Qin's government ran more effectively.

5) Qin Shi Huang was a genius, and had the ambition to unit the rest of the states.

6) At the time of Qin Shi Huang, the other states had become weaker than before. The only state that could compete with Qin was Chu. But Chu's king was not as ambitious as Qin Shi Huang.

7) Qin Shi Huang used correct strategies.

These are those points I currently can think of. I believe there are still more.

Originally posted by mcdh
7) Why and how did the Qin dynasty manage to unify the Chinese and form the first great Chinese empire?

This question is too big, and it's enough to write a dissertation upon it. :)I'm expecting nothing less from you by now. :)

These are some of the points I can think of,

1) Qin changed the law to improve the whole state, economic, and military systems. This was carried out by someone called Shang Yang. Note this was not done by Qin Shi Huang, but rather Qin Shi Huang kept the reformed laws.Yep, Legalism. Basically, the ideology states that humans are inherently evil and lazy and Laws are needed to govern them. But the Legalists carried it to extremes.

2) The location. Qin was located northwest to the rest of the states, and seperated from them by huge mountains with only few passes. As Qin controled those passes, it was almost impossible for other states to bring wars to Qin's lands. Rather, Qin could easily went out and attack other states. This guaranteed Qin's security throughout the period.Yep. Only thing is the Qin had their back against the barbarians to the west and north. They were very much a threat in earlier days.

3) Qin people was mixed by Huaxia and other minority peoples. As we all know, those minority people are more good at fighting, riding, archery, than Huaxia people. Qin Shi Huang also required all the men in his state pratice fighting since teenage. As a result, Qin soldiers's fighting effective was much better than other states' soldiers.Not sure but the Qin people were definitely hardier and more rugged due to centuries of facing down the nomads fr the north and west. One theory goes that the Qin were a simpler people and thus Legalism was more easily imposed thru out the state; which would be impossible in a normal Chinese-style state with a more sophisticated citizenry.

4) Qin's philosophy was Fa Jia, following Han Fei, rather than confusian. Fa Jia believes strict laws to prevent crime and corruptions. So Qin's government ran more effectively.Legalism.

5) Qin Shi Huang was a genius, and had the ambition to unit the rest of the states.All the Kings were ambitious. <shrugs> They were also jealous and careful to watch their subordinates.

6) At the time of Qin Shi Huang, the other states had become weaker than before. The only state that could compete with Qin was Chu. But Chu's king was not as ambitious as Qin Shi Huang.

7) Qin Shi Huang used correct strategies.Yeah, too many years of fighting betw themselves and with the Qin. Not many places on Earth can continously war on for centuries.

These are those points I currently can think of. I believe there are still more.I think you've missed the most important of all - the irrigation projects in the Wei valley (the heartland of Qin) and in Shu (which they later conquered). These projects enabled the Qin to be incredibly well-endowed with economic bounty and for them to field a huge army all-year round.

Only 4.5 questions remaining. I'll leave this on for a few more days before passing out (what I think) the correct answers to the rest. :)

Well by the time Shi Huang came to power Chu was still larger and more powerful than Qin. Remember, Chu destroyed many earlier provinces in the earlier Zhan guo period and basically united the south. Qin only became more powerful than Chu after conquering the weaker provinces. Wonder, it took Qin like 20 years to conquer China.

1)
This one a bit tough but I'll give it a shot. Its was not Gheghis Khan(Chen ji shi han) who finally conquered China but his son Kubli Khan who actually conquered the empire.

Song was divided into two parts. During the Reign of Song Gao Zhong, he had to flee the capital and get a capital further south because of invaders.

Basically the southern song dnasty hang the problem of Liao to begin with. They had to unite with Jin to destroy liao and then they had the problem with Jin so they united with Yuan to destroy Jin. Jin was easy to destory because Song and Yuan did it together with Yuan attacking from the north and Song attacking from the south. After they let the Mongols(Yuan) come inside chinese territory, they wouldn't leave. Also the mongol's golden horde was off conquering elsewhere and there was a dispute between two of gheghis's sons about who was the heir. At this time the song empire was crumbling and the rule was weak. They did not stand a chance against the mongol hordes now commanded by Kublai Khan(grandson of Gheghis), so Yuan destroyed Song and took over china.

Originally posted by Fallen Angel Lord
Well by the time Shi Huang came to power Chu was still larger and more powerful than Qin. Remember, Chu destroyed many earlier provinces in the earlier Zhan guo period and basically united the south. Qin only became more powerful than Chu after conquering the weaker provinces. Wonder, it took Qin like 20 years to conquer China. Which provinces did Chu conquer? In the beginning there're hundreds of states but these were reduced to 7 in the end, who fought it all-out eventually. The Qin conquered Shu and Ba too, to the south. Chu took Wu (after being beaten a few times by a Wu led by Sun Zi himself :)). All of the remaining states conquered surrounding territories.

Besides at this point in time, the 'South' was a frontier region; unpopulated, wild and dangerous. Chu itself was considered a semi-Chinese state only. It was only later, during the Han and esp during the 'dark' centuries between the Han and the Tang, that the 'South' was fully Sinified. ;) So unifying the 'South' didn't mean much, unless it's followed by settlement and development.

By the time, King Cheng came to power, Qin was already the paramount state simply by being the most harsh (in an age of continual warfare). At one time, it defeated a coalition army of the six other states in one war. ;) The Chu state apparatus, ideology and army simply couldn't match the Qin's.

But enough said. :)

Originally posted by Fallen Angel Lord
1) This one a bit tough but I'll give it a shot. Its was not Gheghis Khan(Chen ji shi han) who finally conquered China but his son Kubli Khan who actually conquered the empire.I didn't mention any names BTW. ;)

Song was divided into two parts. During the Reign of Song Gao Zhong, he had to flee the capital and get a capital further south because of invaders.The final emperor and crown prince of the Song were captured by the Jin when Kaifeng fell. They were brought to the north, to Manchuria, as prisoners and treated as such. The Chinese didn't have any govt for awhile until a scion of the imperial house finally got around to organizing another govt fr Hangzhou (which was meant originally to be a temporary capital). :rolleyes: There were never two Songs; the Southern Song succeeded the Song.

Basically the southern song dnasty hang the problem of Liao to begin with. They had to unite with Jin to destroy liao and then they had the problem with Jin so they united with Yuan to destroy Jin. Jin was easy to destory because Song and Yuan did it together with Yuan attacking from the north and Song attacking from the south. After they let the Mongols(Yuan) come inside chinese territory, they wouldn't leave. Also the mongol's golden horde was off conquering elsewhere and there was a dispute between two of gheghis's sons about who was the heir. At this time the song empire was crumbling and the rule was weak. They did not stand a chance against the mongol hordes now commanded by Kublai Khan(grandson of Gheghis), so Yuan destroyed Song and took over china.Other than that the Liao didn't exist anymore when Southern Song came about (missed by a few decades at least :rolleyes: ) and that the Golden Horde was a separate Mongol house altogether and unconnected much anymore with the Mongols in China.....

So back to my question, why did the Mongols still take 20 plus years to subdue all of the Southern Song when they threw most of their forces (incl N Chinese infantry conscripts) against it and when the Southern Song were a decaying entity? And how did they finally manage it?

Actually in my chinese history text southern song began the year after the northern song ended. It also said that Song Gao Zhong held imperial court on a ship for a while. Our sources may be different. However, I believe that during the time of Ghenghis Khan, it was the same people under his command that swept towards Europe. However, by the time of Kublai Khan, the horde had divided into three parts.

However, I believe that during the time of Ghenghis Khan, it was the same people under his command that swept towards Europe. However, by the time of Kublai Khan, the horde had divided into three parts.That's cause under the Mongols' patrimony laws, after the death of the father, his property must be divided equally betw all his sons. So, Genghis, being a traditional Mongol, divided his land and armies into 4; for each of his four sons (or grandson).

Actually in my chinese history text southern song began the year after the northern song ended. It also said that Song Gao Zhong held imperial court on a ship for a while. Our sources may be different.If Song Gaozong was the first emperor of the Southern Song, then he was a younger son of the Song emperor who was captured and brought north, along with the crown prince and many officials who failed to escape in time. This scene was almost classic and constantly replayed often in Chinese TV costumed serials, movies etc.

Practically-speaking, the Southern Song only got going a few years later after the Jin were first stopped and then pushed back slowly fr the Yangzi and the Chinese gathered around Song Gaozong, who was the only legitimate power-holder in what remained of China.

Yes, Gao Zhong was the son of the captured emperor(I think it was hui zhong who was captured). He's also the emperor in the story (Sui hu)

Here are the remaining answers since I very much doubt anyone else will be giving it a try. Feel free to discuss if you disagree.... Thanks for all who'd participated. :)

1) The Mongols overran Xixia and also the Jin empire in North China relatively quickly. However, they would take about a generation to conquer the last of the three feuding kingdoms within China proper, the Southern Song. Why and in the end, how?

One word - geography. Southern China is a land of rivers and paddy-fields, and uniquely unsuited to the main Mongol style of warfare, mainly large cavalry formations. They have no navy to speak of, to skirmish on the Yangzi.

E.g. the Mongols spent 10 yrs or more beseiging the city of Xiangyang. Surrounded the city completely but the Song were able to cont supplying the defenders via the Yangzi river. In the end, it took a mutiny of the Song navy before the Mongols could make headway.

The Mongols also had trouble with the better technical resources at the Chinese' disposal like ancient rockets, explosives etc. But they learned to adopt them.

4) When, how and why Buddhism took root in China, the only foreign religion to pervasively permeat all levels of the Chinese polity?

Someone had answered the timing correctly. The reason why a foreign religion was able to take root at this peculiar time was that for the Chinese, this was a time of upheavel and chaos. The Han empire had collapsed and in its demise, barbarian tribes poured in fr the north and filled N China while the south was divided betw a few kingdoms. The Chinese seeked solace in religion and Buddhism arrived in time to fill this need. Daoism too thrived and developed much during this period.

5) Why was the Tang so powerful militarily (at least in the beginning)?

The Tang emperors viewed themselves as cosmopolitans. They seeked to be the Chinese Son of Heaven, as well as being the Khan, Turkish-style. The Tang imperial house and its immediate followers were half-Turkish themselves. Hence they were more open-minded and receptive and more martial, than normal typical Chinese rulers.

In particular, they were not averse to signing up the nomadic tribes as their vassals (which was something traditional Chinese rulers could not envision) in the barbarian style. The Tang also took in talented foreigners to command their armies. Like the Korean general who led the Tang army to defeat in the Battle of the Talas River against the Arabs (despite breaking up the Tibetans earlier whom the Chinese feared would join the Arabs in alliance). Ironically, the Chinese would get on very well with the Arabs later on.

Or the Sogdian An Lushan who commanded 200000 troops at the frontier, who would rebel later and weaken the Tang permanently. The Tang also took up the nomadic style of warfare. Tang light horse conquered all the way to the west. :)

8) How did the Silk Road begin?

It began when the Han emperor, Wudi, sent an emmisary to the Yueh-chih in the west, to try to make an alliance against the powerful Xiongnu confederation to the north. The Yueh-chih had been driven to the west by the Xiongnu and had a grudge. Unfortunately the Yueh-chih refused and went on to conquer a large swath of Central Asia and N India, becoming the Kushans.

Despite this, the emmisary managed to return to China after many yrs and brought back news of other nations in the west. The rest is all history. :)

10) Why did the Sui collapse?

The second emperor embroiled the empire in too many escapades which it could not afford. He tried to conquer Korea, but failed despite five campaigns and mobilization of up to a million men. He pushed for the completion of the Grand Canal, which took a heavy toll on the local populace (despite being a sound construction in the long run).

In the end, widespread unrest broke out and his commanders and officials rebelled and began a struggle for power, particularly the house of Li (who would be the future Tang dynasty).

Hello Knight Dragon, Lets be friends and bury the hatchet

I have a few Chinese history questions for you all

1.To where is the maximum western extension of Han and Tang Empire?

2.Name the few legendary kingdom that is "believed" to have existed before Xia Dynasty?

3.At 100 AD,the period where Han Empire and Roman Empire are at their peak,which has more population?

4.What is the Treaty of Nerchinsk, explain in more details how it went to that

Originally posted by Fayadi
Hello Knight Dragon, Lets be friends and bury the hatchetDo I know you? :) :p J/k.

1.To where is the maximum western extension of Han and Tang Empire?Any good history book shld tell you. All I'm sure of was that the Tang was larger and reached further west than the Han. There're Indian princes in the Hindu Kush swearing allegiance to the Tang emperor.

2.Name the few legendary kingdom that is "believed" to have existed before Xia Dynasty?There're no legendary kingdoms before the Xia; Xia was believed to be the first and a legend in itself (for now). Unless you're referring to the 'sages' who reputedly led the 'Chinese' at this point like Shun, Huangdi etc.

3.At 100 AD,the period where Han Empire and Roman Empire are at their peak,which has more population?No comparison posts/threads. ;) But no one really knows - nobody kept score in those remote days.

4.What is the Treaty of Nerchinsk, explain in more details how it went to thatEnd of 17th century, Russian frontiersmen began penetrating the Amur region in the Far East (look up map). Ran up against Jurchen tribesmen who're aligned with the Qing. The Russians built a fort which was destroyed by the tribesmen (I think).

Anyway, in the end, the Russians made a treaty with the Jurchen tribesmen to demarcate the border. Everything south of the Amur would belong to them; everything north to the Russians. It took some decades before the Russians realized they'd dealt with the Qing, rulers of the fabled Cathayan empire.

Thats the thing,different history books tells different place in which the Han Dynasty reached its maximum extension? I am testing you now,so whats your answer from your knowledge

Originally posted by Fayadi
Thats the thing,different history books tells different place in which the Han Dynasty reached its maximum extension?Truth is no one really knows. Also depends on your definition of what belongs. Also the issue at which time you're referring to.

The Tang was larger. Otherwise, the far western regions for both empires concerned were simply some scribblings on the map. Chinese control over the Central Asian regions had always depended on local alliances and allegiances, mixed with some measure of military presence.

I am testing you now,so whats your answer from your knowledge I do not take kindly to being tested. :rolleyes: I'm not a lab mouse, due for biological experimentations. :p

Okok,the information i got from Americana Encyclopedia was that Han Dynasty reached the distant CASPIAN SEA !
Alright alright ....It should be "Testing your knowledge" arent this thread is all about?

Originally posted by Fayadi
Okok,the information i got from Americana Encyclopedia was that Han Dynasty reached the distant CASPIAN SEA !At one point, when General Pan Ch'ao reached there with 70000 auxilliary troops, raised fr the region. But didn't last very long, once local support evaporated.

The Tang's hold over Central Asia was much more secured. To the point the Arabs had to fight and defeat them in a ground battle to push them out of Central Asia. Tang armies were roaming around in the region. :)

Alright alright ....It should be "Testing your knowledge" arent this thread is all about?Just j/k. :) Can't take a joke?

8)

Wasn't it the Mongals that created the first Silk Road?

The Silk Road began in ernest in Han-Roman times; the Mongols (assuming you're referring to them) simply weren't around yet. They would only erupt onto the world stage more than a thousand years later.