Hello.

Some of you here may have played this (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?p=3903068) brilliant mod for Civ 3. Originally created by Rambuchan and Luddi VII.

After contacting Rambuchan and being told he rarely has time for Civ anymore and has no plans to mod for 4, I've decided to attempt a 'port' of this to Civ 4.

I've recently acquired a decent map of India (Thank you strategyonly!) and have started the tedious xml editting... (I bow to all the modders with the massive modpacks, must have taken you yonks!)

My first phase is to merely mod in the right Civilizations and create the scenario situation. Next will be creating the unique tech trees, improvements and units. I'll probably release it at that point to get a feel of how it plays as a normal game and hoohah. From there I'll work on bringing variety to the improvements, units etc with a focus on balance. Ingame events and a look at any other fancy python-ing that can help enhance the scenario experience. Along the way, whatever art assets can be plugged in will.

I'm going to initially go slow and wait for BTS, just in case it has that something extra useful. That and I don't have much of a choice since it's taken me a day of, although admittedly not focused, XML work on just getting one civilization added. So I doubt I'd have too much done by release day anyway. :lol:

So just a heads up to any fans of the scenario. I hope I can do it justice.

Doing right now: Civs, leaders and unique units all with pedia entries.

So just a heads up to any fans of the scenario. I hope I can do it justice.

Best of luck! I'll be waiting for that one. ;)

Please make a vanilla version too. This scenario is awesome.

As someone who never played Civ 3 Mods, could you elaborate, or link to an old thread?

Ah, my bad, thought it was linked.

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?p=3903068

Looks like a really interesting scenario! Good luck converting it. ;)

After contacting Rambuchan and being told he rarely has time for Civ anymore and has no plans to mod for 4, I've decided to attempt a 'port' of this to Civ 4.True that. I have neither the time these days, nor the knowledge of how to mod Civ 4 to make this happen. So all the best with it. :goodjob:

I'll definitely be having a go with the beta version and will try and chip in with some comments / advice / help etc if and when possible.
I've recently acquired a decent map of India (Thank you strategyonly!) and have started the tedious xml editting... (I bow to all the modders with the massive modpacks, must have taken you yonks!)

My first phase is to merely mod in the right Civilizations and create the scenario situation. Next will be creating the unique tech trees, improvements and units. I'll probably release it at that point to get a feel of how it plays as a normal game and hoohah. From there I'll work on bringing variety to the improvements, units etc with a focus on balance. Ingame events and a look at any other fancy python-ing that can help enhance the scenario experience. Along the way, whatever art assets can be plugged in will.Sounds like you've got the ordering of things to do quite right. Can we see the map?
I'm going to initially go slow and wait for BTS, just in case it has that something extra useful. That and I don't have much of a choice since it's taken me a day of, although admittedly not focused, XML work on just getting one civilization added. So I doubt I'd have too much done by release day anyway. :lol: What's BTS?

So just a heads up to any fans of the scenario. I hope I can do it justice.I'm sure you'll do a great job. And the CFC community is around to help you out. :)

Please make a vanilla version too. Seconded.

What's BTS?

Beyond the Sword expansion pack.

Beyond the Sword expansion pack.I'm even more behind on Civ than I thought. :blush:

Neat. I'll keep a beady eye on this ...

I'm even more behind on Civ than I thought. :blush:

It is for CivIV and not Civ5 so you aren't that far behind. ;)

It is for CivIV and not Civ5 so you aren't that far behind. ;)What!!? There's Civ 5 now? :suicide: ;)

Given what's been done yet, it can easily be changed to Vanilla. (Would just need to get a new map, so two version is very possible)

I'll have a preview map up as soon as I get the rivers right. River editting is really frustrating for me in civ4. :\

Ramb, I'd love to get all the background info you used for this. I've managed to nab some from the pedia file.

There is also the civics system which is how governments are defined in 4, rather than a list of types of governments you get to mix & match between a set of attributes your government will have. I'll need help on what civics could be had around this time.

Ramb, I'd love to get all the background info you used for this. I've managed to nab some from the pedia file.Most of the material I used for background is listed in the Credits file that comes with the Civ3 version. Check that out for starters. Then ask any questions, because much of the information was drawn from my own bookshelf and from many years of reading on this time period.
There is also the civics system which is how governments are defined in 4, rather than a list of types of governments you get to mix & match between a set of attributes your government will have. I'll need help on what civics could be had around this time.Oh yes, teh civics. Remember, I'm not much of a Civ4 player, so my ideas might not be appropriate. But here are some dynamics and ideas to work with:

Government:

Zamindar System (or Hereditary Rule): - As you'd expect it to be, a simple monarchical system but with problems, meaning you'd want to graduate out of it once growing. Best used for the backward civs I guess, and possibly the step before one upgrades to Mansab. Zamindar = Landowner btw.

You might want to separate this between a Feudal system (that would be called Zamindar) and a Monarchical System.

Mansab System - A kind of 'Decentralisation', but with Imperial overtones that suit a more advanced empire. Details need to be fleshed out. You can read much on this administrative system in the existing pedia. Best used for those powers that have established an empire of some size and are looking to stabilise and enhance it.

Colonial Rule: - A European version of the Mansab System and hence best kept for those civs only. Should emphasise wealth (perhaps gold for rush building) and use of population (drafting perhaps) over anything else.

Economic:

Mercantilism: - Similar to the existing Civ3 scenario's government of 'Colonialism' (which should have been called Mercantilism anyway) in its effect on wealth and corruption.

Free Market: - Something similar to what Civ4 has now. Late game only.

Cash crop: - The name sucks I know. But I'm thinking of the Mughals' vast opium based cash crop economy here, as well as the vast number of people within their empire whom they could tax. This system, whatever you call it, should be the mightiest of all of them, but should require a large empire and a number of resources in control.

The Diwan: - Open to all civs. See the pedia entry for 'Deccan Tax'. It's primarily and originally an Islamic term but others, like the British, took to it whilst in India also.

Legal:

- Not sure how one would implement and characterise these in Civ4, but here are names you might want to consider: Sharia Law, Colonial Law, Vedic Law.

Labour:

- No need to create anything new here, just assign the existing ones, namely: Tribalism, Slavery, Serfdom, Caste System (no Emancipation!)

Religious:

Religious Tolerance (Free Religion of sorts): - introduced by Akbar the Great, saw the abolition of the Jizia (non-Muslim) tax, introduced representation at all levels of government for Hindus, Buddhists, Christians etc.

Inquisition: - See the pedia entry on 'The Goan Inquisition' for more on this. The last of the Mughals (see below) introduced a system that was intolerant in the extreme, but not quite as extreme as what the Portuguese brought to India. You might want to separate this from another less harsh Christian civic.

Shia Islamic State (Theocracy of sorts): - Implemented by Aurangzeb, the final Mughal, to disastrous effect. It inspired great hatred, armed revolt and, ultimately, the breaking up of their empire.

You might want to separate this from another less harsh Christian civic.

Wouldn't Orientalisim be good when the Europeans thought they were Asian and adopted Asian dress, practices, etc...?

And you can also come up with new civics categories if need be.

I am still working on this, just incredibily boring work atm.

This looks like a great idea. I hope you pull it off.

I loved this mod from civIII so I'll be seeing how this turns out. :)

I was planning on doing a mughal mod after I finished my rise of the ottomans mod but you got it covered. :) Now all we need is a safavids mod. :p

I am still working on this, just incredibily boring work atm.Since you began this thread, I actually went and got BTS. So I'll be able to play it and give feedback. And sure, it is boring at times, but worth it. So, keep up the good work sir! :goodjob:

I loved this mod from civIII so I'll be seeing how this turns out. :)Always great to hear :)

I was planning on doing a mughal mod after I finished my rise of the ottomans mod but you got it covered. :) Now all we need is a safavids mod. :pDid you ever play this (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=170147) one? It's really good stuff.

I've been able to plug in a few more civs than the original like Orissa, Multan, Marathas, Sikh etc. Some just to be minor civs that are vassals to certain empires and some simply allow later scenarios to be made which provide a different political landscape to play in.

The primary focus is the 1526 scenario, which is essentially be the main one since it will last the longest.

The real buggery thing for me is the tech tree. I'm interested in keeping the structure as it is ( I don't want to get into the whole making a new one) but edit industrial to be semi-medieval and modern to be the height of technologically for that time. So if any have ideas on what techs can be renamed as(and corresponding improvements) and so forth, I would be much obliged.

Also, I have a few other ideas which aren't as difficult to do;

Roads/forts can't be pillaged. The roads are to represent key routes and forts to control these important links. Especially for the foreign powers since they won't have an advantage in jungle/forest terrain and their better units (cannons) will need them.

Forests and jungles can't be cut down, this is to help the Indian civs keep an advantage in their respective terrains.

I've been able to plug in a few more civs than the original like Orissa, Multan, Marathas, Sikh etc. Some just to be minor civs that are vassals to certain empires and some simply allow later scenarios to be made which provide a different political landscape to play in.

I recommend adding Gujarat, Malwa, and Sindh as they are rather significant especially the first two. Also if you wanted to other civs could be Bidar, Berar, Tibet, Afghans, Trvancore, etc...

Here is the list so far.

Mughal Empire
Rajput
Gondwana
Berar
Malwa
Bengal
Orissa
British; East India Company
Golconda
France
Vijayanagara
Ahmadnagar
Maratha
Sind
Sikh Empire/Confederacy
Bijapur
Bidar
Multan
Dutch
Safavids
Vasco Traders (Portugal)

If you think of more(as minors or otherwise) and also want to send over pedia info for them, that'd be dandy. :)

Did you ever play this (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=170147) one? It's really good stuff.

Yep.:p YP and ED are excellent mod/scenario makers. I would say the top three for me are MEM, rise of the mughals, and twillight of byzantium.:) :goodjob:

Here is the list so far.

Mughal Empire
Rajput
Gondwana
Berar
Malwa
Bengal
Orissa
British; East India Company
Golconda
France
Vijayanagara
Ahmadnagar
Maratha
Sind
Sikh Empire/Confederacy
Bijapur
Bidar
Multan
Dutch
Safavids
Vasco Traders (Portugal)

If you think of more(as minors or otherwise) and also want to send over pedia info for them, that'd be dandy. :)

I actually made some leaderheads like Sher Shah suri, ibrahim adil shah II, akbar, abbas, burhan shah II if you are interested.

EDIT: It is important to note that they are static, as I prefer static over animated. ;)

Another edit: I also made flags for the mughals and safavids.

That's brilliant.

Static is cool, I personally feel a lot of the animation aspects in Civ 4 are an unnecessary waste on system resources. Like swaying trees and units of three. Three ain't that big a difference from one, and it's all representative anyway, so I always set it as one! :)

How is this map? Does it need to shifted? Made bigger? Focus on the subcontinent more?

Only map mini cause, I couldn't screeny the whole map. :\

http://homepage.ntlworld.com/p.calay/mapmini.jpg

Well Ceylon looks a bit cut off, so it should be moved south to include the Maldives.

Also there doesn't appear to be Andaman and Nicobar and Lakshwadweep Islands on the map.

Looks like a bit too much of China is included and not quite enough of Persia.

Ok, got a map I can use as reference? :)

Regarding the civ list:

It's good Ranbir. However, you'd need to be careful that you don't get your chronologies mixed up. The Marathas, for example, arose aproper much later than 1526, out of many of the Deccan Sultanates that feature in the Civ3 version (such as Ahmadnagar, Bijapur et al, and indeed Mughal lands). The Sikh Empire/Confederacy of course arose over a century after your start date and there's another one to consider.

I've played a little bit of Rhye's Civ4 mod, with it's timed spawning of civs. Is it possible to do something similar here or is it hugely complex? As you're probably already aware, I'm not familiar with Civ4 modding at all, so do please forgive me if this isn't a practical suggestion.

On the Europeans, remember that they all had East India Trading Companies, except for Portugal. You can refer to the previous version for their correct names.

Regarding the pedia:

I don't spend a huge amount of time on Civ these days, but I have absolutely no problem with you pillaging the pedia I wrote for this version you are creating.

How is this map? Does it need to shifted? Made bigger? Focus on the subcontinent more?

Only map mini cause, I couldn't screeny the whole map. :\

http://homepage.ntlworld.com/p.calay/mapmini.jpgSilver is right. If this map doesn't include the Andaman and Nicobar Islands, nor islands in the Malacca Straits, then there isn't much point in having the Dutch take part and there won't be much naval action of any worth. You can and should at least include those first islands I mentioned.

The passage around Ceylon, although not crucial to the history of the period, did provide the possibility of some interesting naval action in the game.

The expansion of the Himalayan region is pretty cool. You can include Tibet now, which would be fun, if not a major influence on the main field of play in the subcontinent. Given the importance of these mountains to Hindus and Buddhists alike, especially Mount Kailash, then the less powerful civs of Nepal and Tibet can be given some kind of religious power or leg up in the game.

The lands that the Mughals descended into India from, ie. Afghanistan, seem to be a bit larger on this map, and that's a good thing!

Ok, got a map I can use as reference? :)Can you not use LouLong's map that was used for the Civ3 version of this scenario? I'd be very surprised if no one on these boards has discovered an easy way of converting Civ3 maps into Civ4.

Yep.:p YP and ED are excellent mod/scenario makers. I would say the top three for me are MEM, rise of the mughals, and twillight of byzantium.:) :goodjob:I'm flattered. :blush:

Yes Ramb, spawning at specific turns. Although that will be later. The easier thing is just to create different scenarios starting at different times. ;)

I'm unsure of a converter.

Anyway, my mobo died two weeks ago but the replacement should be here this week. Thankfully my HD is safe. :)

Necro power!

Up to tech tree-ing. (Haven't made the map yet!)

I figured it might be easier to cut down and start the tech tree from scratch. So I'll be making notes and working out a nice tree for the main scenario.

Good work! :clap:

Keep it up. I'll be one of the first to play when you roll it out.