I reckon HRE is included to make the break away colony system a bit more viable. I heard that if a colony breaks away, the AI chooses a civ that is loosely related to your empire. If you play as France, Germany, Rome, etc. And a colony of yours breaks away, HRE is Viable. So are the other choices that Fraxis made, eg. Babylon, Sumeria can be territorially related to the Arabs, ottomans, persia. Byzantines to greece, Native Americans to America, etc..

Just a thought. It's almost like a system that links break away colonies to civs that once existed in similar regions.

Byzantines can also be related to Rome, so yeah, they created a nice chain of civs possible to split.

Rome or Greece -> Byzantium
Rome -> HRE
Rome -> Spain
HRE -> Germany
HRE -> France

etc...

England -> America
England -> Canada :mischief:

I reckon HRE is included to make the break away colony system a bit more viable. I heard that if a colony breaks away, the AI chooses a civ that is loosely related to your empire. If you play as France, Germany, Rome, etc. And a colony of yours breaks away, HRE is Viable. So are the other choices that Fraxis made, eg. Babylon, Sumeria can be territorially related to the Arabs, ottomans, persia. Byzantines to greece, Native Americans to America, etc..

Just a thought. It's almost like a system that links break away colonies to civs that once existed in similar regions.

It would be a great colonial system...

Yeah its a decent idea BUT i read somewhere that most European civs split to form America.

Hopefully:
Russia -> Soviet Union
Rome -> Byzantium (they did break from Rome after all, even if their culture is more Greek)
England -> America (No other Euro nation really makes sense for this split)
Some Middle Eastern nation -> Israel possibly?

England -> Canada :mischief:

I saw that! :D

More than Likely

Greece - Byzantium (culture is more matched)
Rome - HRE
France - America
England - America / India (they did rule there too)
HRE - Germany
China - Japan
Byzantium - Ottoman (they did take over)
Inca - Aztec ( i forget which one is geographicly higher, thus "older")
Spain - Inca ( they did make colonies there)
Vikings - Russia

Yea, but still it's not worthy.

More than Likely

Greece - Byzantium (culture is more matched)
Rome - HRE
France - America
England - America / India (they did rule there too)
HRE - Germany
China - Japan
Byzantium - Ottoman (they did take over)
Inca - Aztec ( i forget which one is geographicly higher, thus "older")
Spain - Inca ( they did make colonies there)
Vikings - Russia

The Inca and Aztecs had near NOTHING in common. Both came around 1350 making neither older. Russia should also come from the Mongols.

I know they are nothing in common, but two things:

1: Early migration to the from Eurasia was from Alaska south to Chile. That means that people settled north before settling south.

2: They will take the lazy route and use both of them since they are both central to South America civs and would need a way to link each civ to another.

As for Russia, mostly founded by viking settlers called Rus. But were once ruled by Mongols so either could work. But I went with where their name came from.

The Inca and Aztecs had near NOTHING in common. Both came around 1350 making neither older. Russia should also come from the Mongols.

True dat. The Inca and Aztecs didn't even know of each others' existence. But they both had some real wacky customs going on.

I know they are nothing in common, but two things:

Early migration to the from Eurasia was from Alaska south to Chile. That means that people settled north before settling south.

1: The Aztecs were orriginally a tribe from what is now the American SW. They had little in terms of settlments. They were supposedly told one of their to go South and settle where they saw an eagle eating a snake on a cactus (the symbol on the Mexican flag). They supposedly saw that on an island in Lake Texcoco, A drained lake where Mexico City is now. There had been civiliztion in Peru for some time at this point and the Incas had untied them around the same time the Aztecs were building Tenochticlan.

I would imagine it is multi drectional in many cases ie

so go down the list and once it is used up (ie all civs currently present, then start on the random list)

England->America, Celts, Vikings, Dutch
America->England, Native Americans, Germans, French, Dutch, Spanish
Germans->America, HRE, French, Dutch
French->America, HRE, Germans, Dutch, Rome, Celts
Rome -> Byzantium, HRE, Spain, France, Portugal
Greece-> Byzantium, Ottomans
Byzantium->Rome, Greece, Arabs
HRE->German, France, Rome, Spain, Dutch
Vikings->America, Russia, England, Dutch
Russia->America, Vikings, Mongols
Spanish->America, Portugal, HRE, Rome, Arabs, Carthaginians
Dutch->America, England, Vikings, HRE, Celts
Celts->English, French, Dutch
Portugese->America, Spain, Rome
Mongols->China, Russia, Korea, Ottomans, Japan
China->Koreans, SE Asians, Mongols, Japan
Korea->China, Japan, Mongols, SE Asia
India->SE Asia, Persia, Arabs
SE Asia->India, China, Korea, Japan
Persia->Arabs, India
Arabs->Egyptians, Spain, Ottomans, Persia, E Africans, Babylon, Carthaginians
Ottomans->Arabs, Egyptians, Greece, Mongols
Egyptians->Arabs, Ottomans, E Africans, Carthaginians
Carthaginians->Spain, Egypt, Arabs, Babylonians
E Africans->Malinese, Zulus, Egyptians, Arabs
Mali->Zulus, E Africans
Zulus->Mali, E Africans
Babylon-> Sumer, Arabs, Carthaginians
Sumer->Babylon
Native Americans->Americans, Aztecs, Mayans
Aztecs->Mayans, Native Americans, Inca
Mayans->Aztecs, Native Americans, Inca
Inca->Mayans, Aztecs

This is an intriguing list but much too big, I don't think the system will allow a civilization to have more than one colony throughout the game. If you are playing on a map with 18 civs and for arguments sake all of them form a colony that breaks away into a seperate civ, there won't be enough civs on the list to form.

In fact in the online chat I heard that the 18 civ cap is inclusive of colonies. So if you start a game with 18 civs in play, colonies cannot split from the empire. ( Or even be created for that matter... )

I would imagine it is multi drectional in many cases ie

so go down the list and once it is used up (ie all civs currently present, then start on the random list)

<huge lsit>

Interesting, but I have to disagree with you on several points. The Dutch shouldn't be able to split from England. Historically, they could split from France, the HRE, Germany, or Spain. Vikings, eh, you're pushing it with that one.

I could see the Celts not splitting from England, but from Byzantium, or Rome. And the Celts themselves having msot of the Western-Central European civs breaking off from them.

Greece should also be able to spit out Rome as a colony. Maybe Egypt or even Carthage too, but that would be pushing it.

You could probably also add Arabia to the civs that split off from Sumer.

Other than that, I don't see many other issues with the list.

If you settle too far away from your capital as an Oriental civ, than the Native Americans are created.

Probably but that's not the ONLY reason.

Interesting, but I have to disagree with you on several points. The Dutch shouldn't be able to split from England. Historically, they could split from France, the HRE, Germany, or Spain. Vikings, eh, you're pushing it with that one.

I could see the Celts not splitting from England, but from Byzantium, or Rome. And the Celts themselves having msot of the Western-Central European civs breaking off from them.

Greece should also be able to spit out Rome as a colony. Maybe Egypt or even Carthage too, but that would be pushing it.

You could probably also add Arabia to the civs that split off from Sumer.

Other than that, I don't see many other issues with the list.

Thanks, for the Dutch the Viking, England connection was the Normans, which I had remembered from somewhere as originating in the Viking Areas and setting up in the Dutch areas before invading England.. very poor memory though, maybe the England-Dutch connection could be replaced with a England-France and a Dutch-France [and just dismiss the Dutch/Viking]

The reason I didn't put Celts from Rome or Byzantium is the Celts (as far as I know) didn't turn into/come from Rome/Byzantium... they were some of the precursors to England though
I would be fairly sure they weren't precursors to the Germans (as the Germanic tribes wouldn't be Celts... I wasn't quite sure about Spain/Portugal)

Greece-Egypt I considered but that's more like England-India, the Greeks influenced them, took over for a while and then lost control but they were more contemporaies than Really participating in forming the other.
Greece-Rome on the other hand would be a good idea

I don't really see that we really need historically splitting in the game. After all, in the real world the Americans didn't build the Pyramids and Spain is not next to China. Would be IMO more interesting it was unpredictable.

England -> America
England -> Canada :mischief:

Hmmm..... Creating even more mischief... :mischief:

England -> India
England -> Zulu
Spain -> Aztec
Spain -> Portugal
Scandinavia -> Russia
China -> Korea
China -> Japan
Japan -> Korea
America -> Native Americans
France -> Mali

EDIT: Never mind, I see someone else with even less going on in the office today than I beat me to the punch. I bow to your superior geekdom, O mighty Krikkitone!

Actually, it would go

China - Korea
Korea - Japan

jkp1187 ;-)

This is an intriguing list but much too big, I don't think the system will allow a civilization to have more than one colony throughout the game. If you are playing on a map with 18 civs and for arguments sake all of them form a colony that breaks away into a seperate civ, there won't be enough civs on the list to form.

In fact in the online chat I heard that the 18 civ cap is inclusive of colonies. So if you start a game with 18 civs in play, colonies cannot split from the empire. ( Or even be created for that matter... )

No, I think Krikkitone's list makes a lot of sense. Each civ will need to have multiple possible branch offs. Suppose you're playing a game where all of England, America, Celts and Vikings are in the game. Then if England makes a colony it'd be nice to have the Dutch (look at the first list item) rather than some random civ like the Mayans pop up. The list just establishes the order in which colony civ names would be chosen upon colony creation.

Whether more than 18 civs are allowed or colonies of colonies are allowed is irrelevant to the list.