Maybe some of the FFH team should pass this on to Firaxis Devs: Incorpate Support for Graphically Diverse tiles, that is, tiles that look different but have the exact same stats, similar to Ethnically Diverse Units, which are now being made capable sharing a single inherited unit class in BTS.

This would be hand if anyone ever decided to implement Tile and feature Visuals that changed with the seasons (12 turns per year, 3 turns per season or more)

Which would allow for snowy/grass terrain in winter and bare trees, than in summer a return to normal graphics. Doing this in vanilla or warlords would create a bunch of redundant terrain types, perhaps some code in BtS could change that.

Maybe some of the FFH team should pass this on to Firaxis Devs: Incorpate Support for Graphically Diverse tiles, that is, tiles that look different but have the exact same stats, similar to Ethnically Diverse Units, which are now being made capable sharing a single inherited unit class in BTS.

This would be hand if anyone ever decided to implement Tile and feature Visuals that changed with the seasons (12 turns per year, 3 turns per season or more)

Which would allow for snowy/grass terrain in winter and bare trees, than in summer a return to normal graphics. Doing this in vanilla or warlords would create a bunch of redundant terrain types, perhaps some code in BtS could change that.

The problem with this is that a year is not 12 turn and if you want to make 3 turn = 1 season and 12 turns = 1 year, it will be difficult to play from 3000 BC to 2050 AC

Maybe some of the FFH team should pass this on to Firaxis Devs: Incorpate Support for Graphically Diverse tiles, that is, tiles that look different but have the exact same stats, similar to Ethnically Diverse Units, which are now being made capable sharing a single inherited unit class in BTS.

This would be hand if anyone ever decided to implement Tile and feature Visuals that changed with the seasons (12 turns per year, 3 turns per season or more)

Which would allow for snowy/grass terrain in winter and bare trees, than in summer a return to normal graphics. Doing this in vanilla or warlords would create a bunch of redundant terrain types, perhaps some code in BtS could change that.

Although I don't doubt someone would use it somewhere I don't think there is enough call for it to justify Firaxis's time. How many mods have a small enough time scale to have a turn represented by a month? Of those mods how many want to dedicate time creating tile art for all of the seasons? Of those mods how many are willing to dedicate the processor time required to change the tile art every few turns?

Understanding that the above is all possible today (with seperate tile definitions) how many are already doing it that would justify the time spent to streamline the process?

Hmm, right. True. Yeah. I was sirta thinking FFH flavour, but right, performance drop = bad.

Although I don't doubt someone would use it somewhere I don't think there is enough call for it to justify Firaxis's time. How many mods have a small enough time scale to have a turn represented by a month?cIVRPG got 4 turns in a day. But if we want to do this (which we might, since it would be 1460 turns a year, so the change wouldn't be that often) we wouldn't need anything special implemented by Firaxis.

Yeah, I though it might just take them about 5 min and a 10 lines of code to help you keep the civilopedia cleaner, but Kael, being FAR more familiar with this engine and used languages than me, seems to think otherwise.

Kael is right, I do think that this could be used somewhere (In WW2 scenario, you invade USSR as Germany and after few turns terrain starts turning to snow, hindering movement and defense, while giving bonus to Russians.

On a somewhat related note, the previews of the Age of Ice scenario got me thinking a bit, that seeing as the main game starts just at the end of the Age of Ice, it could be pretty cool to have the game starting with a whole mass of ice and tundra terrain near the poles that gradually retreats as the game goes on. Kind of a way to have a massive barbarian wilderness in the start and have new arable land gradually opening up to allow more constant and gradual expansion.
Just a thought.

On a somewhat related note, the previews of the Age of Ice scenario got me thinking a bit, that seeing as the main game starts just at the end of the Age of Ice, it could be pretty cool to have the game starting with a whole mass of ice and tundra terrain near the poles that gradually retreats as the game goes on. Kind of a way to have a massive barbarian wilderness in the start and have new arable land gradually opening up to allow more constant and gradual expansion.
Just a thought.

Yeah, that was always the plan (it will also give the Doviello a nice early game advantage that melts away as the game goes on). But I don't know how practical it is for huge maps with 18 civs, etc (ie: if its worth the processor cost of calculating all that stuff just for a neat effect).

Could you make it work kind of like hell terrain in reverse? So instead of having a counter that increases until it spreads, have terrain start as snow/ice and have a counter that decreases and causes the terrain to recede. Maybe Doviello or Illians could have their terrain stay snowy like how hell terrain affects evil before neutral/good?

I would rather icy terrain shift randomly, opening up the possibility that a unit could get temporarily stranded by being surrounded by impassible ice (It would also be nice for the Illians, and possibly Doviello, to be able to move through ice while others still couldn't)

It would normally retreat more than expand, but some things (such as an Illian only ritual) could reverse the trend, at least temporarily.

As Kolath said, it would be nice if it was like Hell terrain but in reverse.

And Illians could have buildings that made it spread in their terrain, and then outwards. Of course, they should get bonuses to make up for it so they dont cripple themselves.

Nice ideas, I think that specially the Illians should hugely benefit and spread Ice (and tundra as an offspring of ice), but the Doviello in my opinion shouldn't have anything about spreading them, they should get some bonuses too, but that's because they're used to it, not because they control it or something, like the Illians...

Changing seasons sounds cool to me. And I look forward to the changing environment in Age of Ice. For seasons I wouldn't mind the turn clock changing to represent something less than a year. And I wouldnt mind that units would represent a smaller contingent as a result. But if that extra work for the PC crashed more games then it would lose its novelty for me.

Terrain spreading of Ice or Forest or Deserts etc like Hell terrain sounds interesting as well. Various Civs could alter their landscape and landscape changes would be contested like spreading culture is. Don't know how well this roleplays though.

And the illians could have a spell to freeze a tile

or possibly an "elegy of the sheaim" type ritual that makes ice start to spread faster (or freezes a percent of the world) only buildable by the Illians and Doviello?


I always thought too that the Mercurians should have some 'heaven' like terrain that follows them through the gate...

I always thought that a year per turn is unrealistic. to the best of my knowledge, it wouldn't take 15 years to cross an empire, no matter how large, nor would it take sixty years to build a granary.

I tend to agree. But, at the same time, it shouldn't be possible to rise from a couple of dirty hovels and rule all Erebus in 300 years either.

I tend to agree. But, at the same time, it shouldn't be possible to rise from a couple of dirty hovels and rule all Erebus in 300 years either.

Why not? 300 years is a long long time.

From hovels to magic wielding uber-people and vast cities? Rome wasn't built in a day you know, they spent 750+ years on the transition from hovel town to bad-ass Europe-dominating empire.

They didn't have magic :P

How can I argue with that? :lol::rolleyes:

From hovels to magic wielding uber-people and vast cities? Rome wasn't built in a day you know, they spent 750+ years on the transition from hovel town to bad-ass Europe-dominating empire.

America went from thirteen poor disease ridden colonies to an empire that influences the whole world in less than 200 years

now there were extenuating circumstances in this case... but it goes to show an empire can do great things quickly

And rome had trouble because of constant infighting among its leaders (political assasination, sabotauge)

But we're getting waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay off topic here (and by we i mean me)

[QUOTE=icantcmyeye;5590930]
And rome had trouble because of constant infighting among its leaders (political assasination, sabotauge) QUOTE]

It certainly helps speed up your empire's growth when you can have one leader for centuries.

Haha, well the whole years vs turns thing is one of those game elements that you just have to think about as an abstraction. It's the same if not worse in vCiv4, when it takes you like 300 years to train your first warrior.

But back on topic... I think the spreading/receding ice is a nice alternative to having seasonal terrain art that rotates every few turns. It certainly would be less graphically and computationally intensive. Though one way to simplify the seasons would be to have only two, a winter/summer dichotomy like in the Total War series. But I think at the end of the day, while it would be cool, it should only be added if it actually added to the gameplay.

i think that at first the only usable terrain in the beginning should be near the equator. but as the game goes on the ice gradually retreats. towards the end game with an advanced tech any player can build a "mulcarins return" ritual ( or maybe make that ritual become avalable during a quest) that makes the blizzard effect from age of ice happen. it should probobly be build faster with ice mana so the illians and dovello have a boost since they start with those manas (or at least should)

Illians should still find the polar regions useful early on, and perhaps also the Doviello. I would prefer a repeatable ritual for bringing back the ice in many small steps, but a quest might be better flavorwise.