Hey gang,

We just posted a feature that covers every new civ, leader, unit, wonder, building, and tech in the expansion.

Enjoy! (http://pc.ign.com/articles/797/797847p1.html)

Steve

Ethiopia is the new, last civ?????

:woohoo:

thanks for this!:thanx:

Thank you very much for posting this. It is quite comprehensive. :)

Hey gang,

We just posted a feature that covers every new civ, leader, unit, wonder, building, and tech in the expansion.

Enjoy! (http://pc.ign.com/articles/797/797847p1.html)

Steve

...And there you go.... Thanks!!

Khmer and Ethiopian it is!!

And Charles De Gaulle is in???!!!

A new building: the Customs House! Oh, the days of Colonization!

Thank you very much for posting this. It is quite comprehensive. :)

:agree: Holy Crap! Paging Methos....paging Methos. There's only a wee-bit of information here.

whoa... Zepplins....

*waits for counter to reach 0 days*

Zeppelins... I can't wait to shoot down the Hindenburg. :D

:joke:

Yes! Ethiopia!

Thanks for this info, mrbee.

Spiritual Civs build Cristo Redentor twice as fast! :eek: Talk about Denial Build!

What I love the most is the Ethiopian leader is dead-ringer for the Red Stripe beer guy. "Hooooray Beer!!"

Can't wait to get this thing.

AESTHETICS?!?

:woohoo: Ship of the Line!!!!! :dance:

And Khmer, too!

http://pcmedia.ign.com/pc/image/article/797/797847/civilization-iv-beyond-the-sword-20070619054046094.jpg

hallelujah!!!

:) :)
This makes me very happy.

Ethiopia, Khmer, and Holy Roman Empire have never been in Civ before.
The Native Americans (Sioux) are returning from Civ 2.
ZEPPELINS!!
De Gaulle is cool.
The wonders look sweet.
So this makes me giddy with excitement.
Now I want to see what colors they come up with for ten new civs to make them appear unique. (That's just how I am.)
I'm also happy that the Dutch (my ancestors) babylonia and byzantium are in, even though weve known them for awihle.
The only prob. with the article is that it did not provide images for all leaders :mischief:
And I think the Sitting BUll leaderhead is a bit dull and drab.

I'm liking Pacal. Sounds like he could be an excellent builder leader (Expansive for Health, UB for extra Happiness, Financial for :gold:, and a defensive UU that doesn't require a resource)

Ethopia! At long last! West, East, South and North Africa are all represented!
:woohoo: Did you check out the Khmer's UU bonus?! I smell a cool new XML tag to fool around with! Crossbowman who only target Melee anyone? Or how about our dear subs who target transports?

This X-pack rocks!! :goodjob:

Edit: No Nam sadly enough... I better go buy a tiny violin....

Steve, you misspelled Babylonia!

Ethiopia!:woohoo:
But why is the bablyonian UB a garden? :confused:
No new leaders for Japan or Spain :(:mad:

:) :)
This makes me very happy.

Ethiopia, Khmer, and Holy Roman Empire have never been in Civ before.
The Native Americans (Sioux) are returning from Civ 2.
ZEPPELINS!!
De Gaulle is cool.
The wonders look sweet.
So this makes me giddy with excitement.
Now I want to see what colors they come up with for ten new civs to make them appear unique. (That's just how I am.)
I'm also happy that the Dutch (my ancestors) babylonia and byzantium are in, even though weve known them for awihle.
The only prob. with the article is that it did not provide images for all leaders :mischief:
And I think the Sitting BUll leaderhead is a bit dull and drab.Well, for history's sake, the Dutch better be Orange, especially considering their leader...:mischief:

Holy Crap!

Too much info to absorb.

Dutch gets a naval UU just like the Portuguese which was expected.

I also called Khmer and Ethopia as the last two Civs.

Yay! for DeGaulle, Yay! for the return of Fin/Org. Boo! for the fact Japan gets screwed in the 2nd leader department. Everything else is awesome.

Kick ass, reading it now :)

Dog Soldier? =s

http://www.clubdesmonstres.com/1dogsoldiers.jpg

Doesn't this look unfair?

Native American
Unique Unit: Dog Soldier (Axeman), has +1 strength and an additional +50% vs. melee units.

VERSUS

Sumerian
Leader: Gilgamesh - Creative, Protective
Starting Techs: Wheel, Agriculture
Unique Unit: Vulture (Axeman), has +1 strength but suffers a 25% reduction against melee units.

Is the Sumerian one supposed to be a warrior?

Doesn't this look unfair?



VERSUS



Is the Sumerian one supposed to be a warrior?

Maybe it's cheap to build or requires no resources?

Crud. Yes, that is unfair. Dog Soldier should be MINUS 1 strength and require no resources. I've corrected it in the article.

Looks like: Charismatic/Creative, Organized/Protective and obviously Industrious/Philosophical were the ones that aren't included.

I guess the first two were left out for minor parts of it's negative synergy.

Charismatic/Creative, normally you'd build Monuments for the extra happiness from Charismatic, but you don't need monuments for culture anymore because of your creative trait, but apart from that it would of made a pretty powerful warmonger combination.

Organized/Protective, Organized usually leads to Warmonger and cutting the cost of war by using cheap courthouses and Protective is pretty much self explanatory. Conflicting goals???... well I guess it would be pretty decent once you reach the gunpowder age, where Protective has a more offensive side to it, maybe a leader who has a Musketmen UU.

Unique Unit: Ballista Elephant (War Elephant), when attacking units in stacks outside of city walls, elephants will automatically target mounted units first.

wonder if it requires ivory to be built.

Read above, it was a mistake. Its supposed to be -1 STR and require no resources.

I was typing this up while it was being edited lol

Holy **** 6 Strength and 100% vs melee, the ultimate early Prat counter but that units seems pretty overpowered, looks like it'll definitely be nerfed, something like it requires ONLY iron to be built, I don't even see the point in using swordsman for this Civ, now if that UU replaced Swordsman it'd make more sense.

Read above, it was a mistake. Its supposed to be -1 STR and require no resources.

Read above, it was a mistake. Its supposed to be -1 STR and require no resources.

Even with -1 strength, 100% vs melee and requiring no resources is pretty damn good.

Yes! Ethiopia! That super! But i don't see the point of having the HRE... aleady having the romes in but who cares! We got Ethiopi!

Holy crap, HRE Courthouses = -75% maintenance.

Even with -1 strength, 100% vs melee and requiring no resources is pretty damn good.

Not versus archers or longbows, and definitely not versus crossbows.

4 * 2 is only 8, 5 * 1.5 is 7.5, so its only a 0.5 upgrade, and only versus melee. While the vulture got +1 versus everybody, with the -25% versus melee, makes it just as good as a normal axemen versus melee.

That's why you don't use melee units against it. :)

Even with -1 strength, 100% vs melee and requiring no resources is pretty damn good.

Wow! Them's some cool units in this here game. Can't wait to play with airships, attack subs, guided missiles, and privateers. Plus, with colonies and custom houses, I am beginning to feel that they are bringing back a sense of inter-continental empire building, which disappeared in vanilla due to the limitations on cities.

The sun will never set on my empire now! Hehe

Would have preferred Menelek II but Zar'a Ya`qob is good too.

Unique Unit: Bowman (Archer), grants an additional +50% vs melee units.

Pretty weak offensively, with 3 str +50 vs melee, they could only effectively counter spearmen, if you include cost and first strikes, their probably an even match against axemen. Besides archers were meant for defensive purposes, it's gonna be pretty dam hard to Axe rush Babylon, or even swords for that matter you'd have to wait for Cats.

Unique Unit: Vulture (Axeman), has +1 strength but suffers a 25% reduction against melee units.

Looking at this again I wonder if I'll ever use Swordsman with this Civ? What's an extra 10% CR...

Unique Unit: Cataphract (Knight), comes with +2 strength but is not immune to first strike.

Their evenly matched against Grenadiers lol... I wonder if the strength of the later units have been boosted after the inclusion of the Cuirassier,

Unique Unit: Holkan (Spearman), immune to First Strike and can be built without copper or iron.

Research hunting and spearman rush anyone?

"While the vulture got +1 versus everybody, with the -25% versus melee, makes it just as good as a normal axemen versus melee."


Increased base strength increases the value of all forgoing promotions, right? A city raider II vulture is stronger against melee units than a city raider II axeman.

City raider II vulture attacking a melee unit:
6+1.5+1.2+1.2 = 9.9

City raider II axeman attacking a melee unit:
5+2.5+1+1 = 9.5

Check my math, but that doesn't look like much of a weakness to me :lol:

Well I am not even going to comment on what I think about Khmer being the SE asia choice (don't worry Great Khan of PHO I am still a devout follower), but I am somewhat disappointed that the Ballista Elephant replaces the War Elephant. I think it would have added more flavor to have it replace something else this way Khmer could have more elephants.

Khmer
Leader: Suryavarman - Creative, Expansive
Starting Techs: Hunting, Mining
Unique Unit: Ballista Elephant (War Elephant), when attacking units in stacks outside of city walls, elephants will automatically target mounted units first.
Unique Building: Baray (Aqueduct), grants an additional food

Pericles is philosophical and creative!! He's my favourite leader now. HELLAS!!

Not thrilled about Khmer and Ethiopia as I think there are better candidates but oh well.

How powerful will the Dutch be?

BTW, Rathaus in German means Town Hall, not necessarily a courthouse. But who cares... I'm excited about the Holy Roman Empire now. Charlemagne is a favourite of mine and this civ looks fantastic.

BTW, as much as I like to complain about creative choices (see the Native American thread for my latest example), I don't thank Firaxis enough. They really do a great job and this expansion is truly looking to be awe inspiring. Looking at the wonders, I was really struck by the amount of cultural diversity in this game. It isn't just western, great things from all over world history are included.

MrBee - each wonder description lists the required tech(s) EXCEPT the apostolic palace. You told us that it was medevil era, but not what tech! Is it theology?

Yeah, theology. I tried to be as thorough as possible but there's just a ton of information.

Carrack (Caravel), has an additional cargo space, can carry military units, and can explore rival territory.

I wonder if they can carry settlers as well?

"Yeah, theology. I tried to be as thorough as possible but there's just a ton of information."

Thanks man!

Suddenly Theology looks like an interesting free tech for building the oracle. Tree chop the oracle in your second city and the palace thing in your third! Whoever is industrious/spiritual is going to have a pretty good time building a power block to pick on some religious minorities :cool:

mrbee,

long time listener, first time caller here. What does Aesthetics actually do? All the other new techs mention their effect, but y'all just note it fills in a gap.

How powerful will the Dutch be?

My first thought from that article is, "the Dutchies are gonna pwn."

Disapointed they didn't add the Philosophical industrius combination and with some other choices. Mainly Ballista elephants .

Some of these Leaders may mean that we must forget about the early rush.
i.e Sitting Bull. Resourceless axemens with 4 strength 100% vs mellees and high experienced + Protective archers. And i am wondering if even with Cats you can ever do a Blitzkrieg. The same probably apply for Sumerians.

That isn't necessarily a negative although now does seem worrying. Maybe because at higher difficulties war is a necessity.

Most of the new UU and UB are very , very powerful. Sumerian's 6 strength axeman is going to be great... Kataphrachtoi with 12 attack are going to own their age . The courthouse that reduces 75% of maintenance is going to be my favorite Ub.

Darius .... Financial/ Organized + Immortals.

You can tell they are trying to make water tiles more useful.

Moai Statues National wonder: +1 production from water tiles for that city.

Dutch Unique Building: Dike (Levee), grants +1 production from all water tiles.

Customs House: overseas trade route boost.

Portuguese Unique Building: Feitoria (Customs House), get one additional gold from all water tiles.

The Dutch are Financial, so their coastal city with Lighthouse, Moai Statues, and Dike will have coast tiles with 2 Food, 3 Commerce, 2 Hammers. In the early game, with Colossus but without Dike will be 2 Food, 4 Commerce, 1 Hammer. The Moai might be obsolete before Dikes can be built, though, but probably not as it is a national wonder.

Portuguese Unique Building: Feitoria (Customs House), get one additional gold from all water tiles.


Makes me wonder if they meant commerce instead of gold.

Hmmm. They came up with a replacement for the Pikeman I'll actually use.

I don't build swordsman anyway, so the vulture is welcome.

The Dog soldier looks pretty good. I won't have to worry about researching bronze working and discovering I have no copper in twenty hexes.

I like the levee, and if I read it correctly, the dike will give you +1 production not only for water tiles but also river tiles. The Dutch could be production monsters.

I love the bonuses on the Hippodrome. It looks like Justinian won't have any happiness problems after he researches Drama.

I'm surprised by some of the tech choices. Shouldn't Justinian start out with fishing rather than the wheel? I never thought mining was a particular strength of the Khmer or Maya. Maybe it's to give them early access to masonry.

The Portuguese are going to be dangerous in an archipelago setting. They're not going to have to wait for Astronomy to start invading other countries, and they can take all the barbarian cities other civs can't get to.

I'm glad the Ethiopians and Khmer are in. I would've prefered the Benin and Siam/Thailand, but what Firaxis chose to be those two are good choices

Paging Methos....paging Methos.

:mad: I'm still at work and our work filters block the link! I can't do anything until I get home. Thanks mrbee, if only I could see it. :sad:

An Axeman UU is amazing. Axemen are pivotal for most players.

Also water tiles will be more useful and navy's more important now that we have Privateers. I am sensing a Privateer rush against cities with a ton of food resources.

I just hope Naval Wars are more like land wars (Rock/Paper/Scissors), instead of just strongest ship wins.

Thanks to the great ChrTh I've taken a quick glance and noticed the garden provides :) per every 5% of culture, rather than 10%. I'm guessing they've changed the slider percentages.

Why the nerf of Expansive??? It's hardly an overpowered trait (except in the hands of my beloved Shaka, but that's a separate issue).

:mad: I'm still at work and our work filters block the link! I can't do anything until I get home. Thanks mrbee, if only I could see it. :sad:

That's too bad. Just savor the anticipation then.

Perhaps you could use the time to find a more understanding employer.

:woohoo: Ship of the Line!!!!! :dance:

Ok, so: strength ?, move 3

Frigate is 8, Destroyer is 30. If you put SotL at 12 (15 or higher is too powerful versus Frigates), you still have room for a Dreadnought at 20 or 24 with the next expansion.

That's too bad. Just savor the anticipation then.

Perhaps you could use the time to find a more understanding employer.

Luckily one of my fellow Civfanatics (ChrTh) was kind enough to PM it to me. :clap:

No new East Asia Leader...
How despair:sad:

There's a new Southeast Asia Civ, that's almost as good, right?

Perhaps you could use the time to find a more understanding employer.

Wait a sec, are you offering me a job at Firaxis??? ;)

Why the nerf of Expansive??? It's hardly an overpowered trait (except in the hands of my beloved Shaka, but that's a separate issue).

yeah i didnt get that either but maybe if they discover it too weak, there is always the patches that come after the game

Why the nerf of Expansive??? It's hardly an overpowered trait (except in the hands of my beloved Shaka, but that's a separate issue).

Maybe it's the fact that cheap workers allowed you to produce settlers more quickly then the Imp leader producing settlers, so players wanting fast early settler expansion will choose the Imp leader over the Exp leader because of the nerf... possibly.

There's a new Southeast Asia Civ, that's almost as good, right?
Well, Suryavarman II will be my first try in BtS.

Maybe it's the fact that cheap workers allowed you to produce settlers more quickly then the Imp leader producing settlers.
Why? I don't get the point. :confused:

Maybe it's the fact that cheap workers allowed you to produce settlers more quickly then the Imp leader producing settlers, so players wanting fast early settler expansion will choose the Imp leader over the Exp leader because of the nerf... possibly.
Yeah could be. Seems like more of an argument for boosting Imp to me, since it's not exactly the strongest of traits. Cheap workers were what made Exp really worthwhile, but I wouldn't call them overpowering. I reckon they had it pretty much right already, and I've heard people call for nerfs on pretty much every trait except Exp.

Yeah could be. Seems like more of an argument for boosting Imp to me, since it's not exactly the strongest of traits. Cheap workers were what made Exp really worthwhile, but I wouldn't call them overpowering. I reckon they had it pretty much right already, and I've heard people call for nerfs on pretty much every trait except Exp.

maybe instead of nerfing Exp, they should of Increased the Settler bonus to Imp instead I guess

Personally I would of preferred improvements to the Protective and Imperialist trait. Improve or change Protective's useless Cheap buildings and give the Imperialist trait an extra bonus.

The only trait I'd nerf would be Financial, currently it's bonus is quite boring, +1C in every plot of 2C, I'd change Financial into a Trade Route's bonus instead of extra Commerce from tiles. Something like +100% to all Trade routes of Financial Leaders and return Cheap Banks, and possibly add any other cheap buildings (eg-Markets, Grocers) for balance purposes.

Hi folks, could someone please PM this to me? My work filters block this very enjoyable thingy...

:) Thanks!

Me likewise, or else C&P it, cant access it form here... pleeeeeeeease

Bump.........

Ok, so: strength ?, move 3

Frigate is 8, Destroyer is 30. If you put SotL at 12 (15 or higher is too powerful versus Frigates), you still have room for a Dreadnought at 20 or 24 with the next expansion.

Why would a Dreadnought be weaker than a Destroyer, when it was an upgrade to a Battleship?

Can I ask wtf is going on with some of the early looking units?

Dragons?

Wtf? :(

Can I ask wtf is going on with some of the early looking units?

Dragons?

Wtf? :(

I think that's the Fall from Heaven Scenario/Mod you're looking at

Its a scenario man

Ah thank you both very much! Was about to cry into my pillow!

Ah thank you both very much! Was about to cry into my pillow!

Play it and you wont play vanilla again. Fall from Heaven 2 ftw!

I play warlords with Civgold3 on it at the moment, playing Scotland I will never want to give up!

:p

Was I the only one who didn't know Sumerians were in until now? :crazyeye: :cool:

One thing stands out to me and that is how many things this expansion includes - making Warlords look a bit paltry (which was one of the complaints when it came out - personally -adding the trireme was its only saving grace).
Maybe Civ echos itself with the first expansion being lame (PTW/War) and the last being really strong (Conquests - who some say was the greatest game ever (Liked Statue of Zues and them Calvary) , and now BTW-with zeppelins, privateers ect.)
Even if it is a bit like getting milked for cash, it takes so long and they keep up with patches
and support regulary so all in all i always felt i got a pretty good bang for the buck.

Why would a Dreadnought be weaker than a Destroyer, when it was an upgrade to a Battleship?

Dreadnought is just a name. The gap between Frigate and Destroyer is ridiculous and needs to be bridged.

Oh boy oh boy OH BOY! Ok they finally did it- I'm drooling :drool:

Holy crap, the Byzantine + Boudica combo is gonna be AWESOME to behold in late-game wars! :eek: When does the SoZ become obsolete? B/c if you put that in your deck, also, you're gonna be IMBA. War weariness? What's war weariness? :mischief:

If you play unrestricted mode, that is.

Dreadnought is just a name. The gap between Frigate and Destroyer is ridiculous and needs to be bridged.
You have the ironclad there already.. :)

The ironclad stinks because it can't enter oceans.

Yeah this looks like a really massive step up form Warlords, going to be hard to keep track of everyhting at first. The AP is going to make a massive difference too, and we still dont even know the mechanics of it.

someone else said it, but playing Warlords seems sort of pointless now, especially as so much of my tactics involve siege weapons, which apparently are being weakened? Am I right?

The ironclad stinks because it can't enter oceans.

Exactly. 78910

Anyone notice the Byzantines btw .. they look pretty good .. the cataphract is gonna have +2 (12) strength with no immunity to 1st strike .. that UU should be one of the best considering how overpowering even regular knights can be sometimes .. + their UB is a Hippodrome (replaces Theatre) .. based on what they provide, seems like an even stronger version of the Pavilion. Their leader traits .. I've seen better .. ;)

Yeah but that NO Immunity to first strikes could hurt them.

someone else said it, but playing Warlords seems sort of pointless now, especially as so much of my tactics involve siege weapons, which apparently are being weakened? Am I right?

The siege nerf is the only thing I'm not liking about BtS. I don't want hill cities with protective longbowman to be untakable until rifleman or calvary.

The siege nerf is the only thing I'm not liking about BtS. I don't want hill cities with protective longbowman to be untakable until rifleman or calvary.

Not untakeble, just slightly harder to take. It's too easy as it is today! You really dont need other units then siege units.....

Not untakeble, just slightly harder to take. It's too easy as it is today! You really dont need other units then siege units.....
Precisely, on levels where the AI's 'bonuses' are tolerable the game is simply too easy right now. The problem with the current situation is that there are clear winning strategies for a human player, but programming the AI to always use those strategies would not be fun.

I would prefer more challenges and making hilltop cities much tougher to take makes sense to me.

Perfect balance for me would be a game that, after I am proficient, can beat me occasionally on noble, regularly on Prince/Emperor, half the time on monarch, most of the time on immortal and almost always on deity...without crazy handicaps that remove the fun from the higher levels.

Interesting, I just realised...what I really want is not to make the AI play like a human but rules and balance that encourage the human player to play like an AI (not the current one but some achievable new improved version). OK that sounds wierd, but I'm not sure how else to say it. I guess I need to think some...

Yeah but that NO Immunity to first strikes could hurt them.

flanking 2. And combat promotions are stronger with 12 strenght

"Landsknecht (Pikeman), in addition to the existing mounted bonus, it comes with +100% vs. melee units"

Uh, wow. That seems amazing, is this right????


Also, woot for the Dutch traits. Creative + Financial was my favorite trait combo in vanilla( <3 Catherine). I was mad when it was change in warlords. Glad to see it back. The dutch look pretty decent.

Pacal II's picture looks like he is completely insane, I am going to make him my oppenent every time just so I can see his crazy mug in diplomacy.

(Look at the final page of their image gallery to see the image)

anyone think that the Khmer UU (the elephant thing) may become the best anti-pillager because it always attacks mounted units first. The Pikeman UU will be good for stopping pillaging also because now a protective maceman in the stack wont stop it

Unique Unit: Oromo Warrior (Musketman), has first-level First Strike and is also immune to First Strikes, begins with Drill I and II promotions.
And here I suggested Oromo cavalry: Lol, which is probably more correct then 'warrior' but oh, well. And why did they only put one leader for them, they should also add http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Menelik_II Menelik II( I also suggested him) they should put him in while they still can! And does anyone know what flag their gonna use for Ethiopia?

Well, for history's sake, the Dutch better be Orange, especially considering their leader...:mischief:

Oh, I'm sure they will take the Colour Orange... until the next expansion

Oh, I'm sure they will take the Colour Orange... until the next expansion

The next "expansion" is probably Civilization 5.

I'm glad to see Darius gets a spot in the expansion, but I'm disapointed that Japan and Spain don't get extra representation, especially when America and France are getting a third leader. I just hope their personalities are tweaked.

The HRE sound interesting. Charlemange gets a pretty bad trait combo in Protective, Imperialistic, but, his UU and UB sound immense. A Pikeman that also gets 100% vs melee? Maceman could be significantly less useful for them, and they will are likely to make up a large amount of the HRE defences. And the UB is going to make for much larger territories.

Nice. A few of the UU seem pretty powerful!

Charlemange gets a pretty bad trait combo in Protective, Imperialistic

Why is that's so bad? I haven't played that much Warlords to really get a feel for the traits, but that trait combo sounds like a perfect combo for defensive warfare. Maybe even defensive triggered offensive warfare... :P

Yikes! I disappear for a day and the flood-gates of information open! :eek:

Woooow... I am so impressed! Many wishes and ideas suggested by us fans were implemented! :goodjob: Firaxis!

Now I'll have to digest this all... :)

Why is that's so bad? I haven't played that much Warlords to really get a feel for the traits, but that trait combo sounds like a perfect combo for defensive warfare. Maybe even defensive triggered offensive warfare... :P

Individually, they're decent traits, but together, they just seem very weak. IMO, Protective and Imperialistic are probably the two weakest traits. The bonuses of each just don't seem to offer a great deal. It just seems to offer nothing but defence. Maybe when it comes to trying out the trait, it might be more interesting and versatile then I expected, but in theory, to me it seems rather uninteresting.

Ouch.. I hope Cyberxkhan doesn't read the Khmer are in.

Charlemagne traits are perfectly compensated BY the UB and UU of HRE.

I'm kind of curious to see how Charles de Gaulle will be. Industrious/Charismatic is an interesting combination, useful for early wonder grab and expansion/war.

What I love the most is the Ethiopian leader is dead-ringer for the Red Stripe beer guy. "Hooooray Beer!!"

Can't wait to get this thing.
XD Its so true!

I'm kind of curious to see how Charles de Gaulle will be. Industrious/Charismatic is an interesting combination, useful for early wonder grab and expansion/war.
Sounds like he's perfect for grabbing/using the eifell tower! :lol:

Ouch.. I hope Cyberxkhan doesn't read the Khmer are in.

i just did.

I just read your sig. I'm not suprised.

now im going to tell you all why Vietnam was a better choice:

1. PHO

2. PHO

3. PHO

4. We're insane, so we'd be an excellent AI to fight with.

5. We actually had insane female leaders, who would be interesting to fight with

6. We've been a state longer than the Khmer

7. We whooped a ton of superpower butt.

8. We invented PHO.

Okay, my nationalistic rambling is done. no insult to the Khmer, just thought id bring some reasons why we're better. ;)

ok, its just a half-joke, im not that angry, im happy at least they realized that Southeast Asia exists. if i weren't Viet, Khmer would've been my first choice too. but next round... hehehe... better be in, Pho...

Individually, they're decent traits, but together, they just seem very weak. IMO, Protective and Imperialistic are probably the two weakest traits. The bonuses of each just don't seem to offer a great deal. It just seems to offer nothing but defence. Maybe when it comes to trying out the trait, it might be more interesting and versatile then I expected, but in theory, to me it seems rather uninteresting.

Nonsense. With the UB and UU, Charlemagne will be a master of early REX followed by middle-game conquest. He will be very powerful, imo.

Now since Khmer is in the game, there is no reason for it to be in any future editions. It has it's representation now so Civ 5 can have a different SE Asia civ.

Nonsense. With the UB and UU, Charlemagne will be a master of early REX followed by middle-game conquest. He will be very powerful, imo.

Here I was commenting solely on the trait combo. In my original post (#100) I did mention that the UU and UB are very strong. ;)

now im going to tell you all why Vietnam was a better choice:

1. PHO

2. PHO

3. PHO

4. We're insane, so we'd be an excellent AI to fight with.

5. We actually had insane female leaders, who would be interesting to fight with

6. We've been a state longer than the Khmer

7. We whooped a ton of superpower butt.

8. We invented PHO.

Okay, my nationalistic rambling is done. no insult to the Khmer, just thought id bring some reasons why we're better. ;)

ok, its just a half-joke, im not that angry, im happy at least they realized that Southeast Asia exists. if i weren't Viet, Khmer would've been my first choice too. but next round... hehehe... better be in, Pho...

I might be thinking of the completley wrong civilization, but didn't Vietnam have troops of peasents whose purpose was to breed fear in their enemy by cutting their own heads off? :lol:

6. We've been a state longer than the Khmer

Poland's been a state just as long as HRE and Poland's been a nation and a group of slavic tribes for even longer. And yet Poland is not in the game.

I'm glad to see Darius gets a spot in the expansion, but I'm disapointed that Japan and Spain don't get extra representation, especially when America and France are getting a third leader.

Me too. Actually that's the only thing I'm disappointed about. I'm even warming to HRE, but I really feel that these two nations need more flexibility.

Khmer: Unique Building: Baray (Aqueduct), grants an additional food.

This seems VERY interesting to me. Other than using the great merchant as a super-specialist, this is the only way in the game to generate food that doesn't come from terrain.

Also interesting that two of the new civs have unique buildings that replace the coliseum (Mayan Ball Court and Babylonian Garden). That is a building I just don't typically build, because it is basically worthless if you aren't using the cultural slider. Those two civs will definitely make me reconsider.

HOW DARE THEY NOT PUT PHO IN THE GAME!!!!! YARRRRRRRR!!!!!!! Someone's gotta say it:
I pity the pho!

I see they played on hanging garden for babylon UB.

Holy Roman empire looks good with the UU. I can see crossbowmen being key against them.

Mayan UU could be good for an early start. Esp when rushing units. Look how effective the Aztecs were on that. *runs*

Im liking sitting bull. The traits are good. Starting tech fishing and agriculture. Sounds for a fast expansive start. The UU may be weaker but the rest clearly outweighs that and the same appeal of rushing units as no resource required. No mining will slow that a bit. Not sure about totem pole in terms of archers. Could be better for longbowmen and crossbowmen. Stonehenge would be a must?

What would be better a archer or Axeman rush? prol Axeman.

All in all lots more to play with.

A UU elephant??? Guess carthage missed out!! I did make the comment before warlords came out this was one unit that had no UU.

Not sure its a great unit though unless you have ivory.

And elephants are so good for such a small period of time.

And elephants are so good for such a small period of time.

unless if they're Vietnamese. ;)

I'm excited for seeing Bismark telling me "Soon my numberless Zepplin will crush you all!"

That'll be fun :D

Thanks mrbee for the wonderful article! You know civ fans well and the kind of info we want to see! :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

The only sad thing is that right now we pretty much know almost everything (and I have a feeling the article promised for later in the week will tell us the rest of the stuff we don't know) it pretty much leaves us a whole month of nothing but waiting.

The only sad thing is that right now we pretty much know almost everything (and I have a feeling the article promised for later in the week will tell us the rest of the stuff we don't know) it pretty much leaves us a whole month of nothing but waiting.

I bet people will use the time to make even more "Why isn't Poland in!?" "Why is the HRE in?!" threads. :lol:

This seems VERY interesting to me. Other than using the great merchant as a super-specialist, this is the only way in the game to generate food that doesn't come from terrain.
Not anymore - corporations can now do that.

The only sad thing is that right now we pretty much know almost everything (and I have a feeling the article promised for later in the week will tell us the rest of the stuff we don't know) it pretty much leaves us a whole month of nothing but waiting.

What we don't know...

- Several new units and buildings remain unannounced. We also have very limited information on the ones we do know about.
- No graphics seen yet for Boudicca, De Gaulle, Darius, Gilgamesh, Charlemagne, Justinian, Joao, and Suryavarman.
- Unless there are only 4 corporations in the game, we haven't seen the rest.
- We have no idea how defying U.N. resolutions works, or what the consequences are. We also have no idea how the new AP features have been worked into the U.N.
- We have no idea how the AP works (though this will be cleared up in the second article.)
- At least 7 of the scenarios are completely lacking in detailed information, and 8 if you count WWII.
- There are over 100 events, yet Methos has data on only 8.
- We have very little data on the new music. I'm personally curious to know what the diplomatic music will be for the new leaders. The Battle Hymn of the Republic for Lincoln, I hope. :mischief:
- Espionage is still a bit murky. Is there a central screen from which you direct action? If so, how does this work in conjunction with the Great Spy? (Centralized control vs. moving units around on the map.)
- More detail on the new air unit promotions is needed.

As you can see, there are still quite a few blanks left to be filled in. I think that's more than enough for the remaining month. This is the first time I've heard people complain about too much info! A few weeks back, everyone was mad about there not being enough. :)

What we don't know...
- At least 7 of the scenarios are completely lacking in detailed information, and 8 if you count WWII.

7, Really? (http://pc.ign.com/articles/796/796807p1.html)

Yes, Grey Fox, seven...

Broken Star
Chaos
Charlemagne's Wars
Crossroads of the World
Gods of Old
Next War
Superrobo

While we have some limited info on a few of these (basic descriptions), that does not give us anything more than a rough idea of what they're like.

I would have liked a naval command screen, or something to help tie my navy together for easy distribution and movement.

Similar to F5, but with options to move units etc etc

What we don't know...

- Several new units and buildings remain unannounced. We also have very limited information on the ones we do know about.
- No graphics seen yet for Boudicca, De Gaulle, Darius, Gilgamesh, Charlemagne, Justinian, Joao, and Suryavarman.
- Unless there are only 4 corporations in the game, we haven't seen the rest.
- We have no idea how defying U.N. resolutions works, or what the consequences are. We also have no idea how the new AP features have been worked into the U.N.
- We have no idea how the AP works (though this will be cleared up in the second article.)
- At least 7 of the scenarios are completely lacking in detailed information, and 8 if you count WWII.
- There are over 100 events, yet Methos has data on only 8.
- We have very little data on the new music. I'm personally curious to know what the diplomatic music will be for the new leaders. The Battle Hymn of the Republic for Lincoln, I hope. :mischief:
- Espionage is still a bit murky. Is there a central screen from which you direct action? If so, how does this work in conjunction with the Great Spy? (Centralized control vs. moving units around on the map.)
- More detail on the new air unit promotions is needed.

As you can see, there are still quite a few blanks left to be filled in. I think that's more than enough for the remaining month. This is the first time I've heard people complain about too much info! A few weeks back, everyone was mad about there not being enough. :)
Good list, and easy to add more:

We know infuriatingly little about the AI changes and the resulting changes to AI handicaps.
We know some details about new techs but not the structure of the tech tree and what has been shuffled about (e.g. later cavalry and riflemen)
What exactly is the new way of winning a diplomatic victory?
We have only a few clues as to how blocking of trade routes works, e.g. how does it affect diplomatic deals?
We are still waiting to find out if more improvements have been made to the naval side of the game.
We have seen very few in game screenshots (which is curious and makes me wonder if the comment on polished graphics is hiding something).
We know that work has been done on at least one of the advisors (foreign) but have no real details or information on any other interface changes.
We still know very little about colonies and any changes that were made to the vassal system to support them.This is just off the top of my head, I'm sure there are many more...plus, there will undoubtedly be many unadvertised changes that we will only discover after release, such as subtle balancing of units etc.

What we don't know...

- Several new units and buildings remain unannounced. We also have very limited information on the ones we do know about.


Actually, an article said there will be 25 new units, and the BTS info center lists 15 new units in addition to the 10 new UUs for the new civilizations. So I think we know all of the new units already.

And there are 18 new building types. The BTS info center lists 8 new buildings in addition to the 10 new UBs.

While IGN promised that their next update would go into details about the AP hopefully they will touch upon the reworked tech tree as well.

If the age of the musket gets extended the Ottomans might become an even bigger powerhouse than they already are, thanks to the Janissaries. I'll probably stick with Mehmed however as Suleiman's trait combo doesn't really appeal to me.

While IGN promised that their next update would go into details about the AP hopefully they will touch upon the reworked tech tree as well.

If the age of the musket gets extended the Ottomans might become an even bigger powerhouse than they already are, thanks to the Janissaries. I'll probably stick with Mehmed however as Suleiman's trait combo doesn't really appeal to me.

i agree 100% with you.

This is just getting strange. It's like everything I ever thought should be in Civ, is finally being put in, Yay Ethiopia, Boo native american and HRE civs, that's just stupid. Everything else seems cool, except the boring leaders.

Yes, Grey Fox, seven...

Broken Star
Chaos
Charlemagne's Wars
Crossroads of the World
Gods of Old
Next War
Superrobo

While we have some limited info on a few of these (basic descriptions), that does not give us anything more than a rough idea of what they're like.

Hmm, forgot about Broken Star and I don't think i knew about Chaos (sounds like a game that uses the Event system in ridiculous amounts).