Elephants currently fulfill the function of mobile, randomly impassible terrain. In effect they are like walking peaks for most of the game. Why? They are a str 6 unit (so nothing can kill it until you are pretty advanced) but they don't attack, merely walk around randomly blocking terrain tiles. As they currently are, they may be fulfilling everything the devs intended, but they could be better.

So, my suggestion is to allow elephants to trample terrain improvements like the Doviello War Machine. I also suggest that elephants be able to move within cultural borders. That way, a roving elephant could wander in and trample your farm or road and generally run amok. There is historical precedent for this in ancient China where elephants used to be a major nuisance to cultivation until they were gradually displaced by hunting and human settlement.

To balance this, you might decrease the strength to say 5 so that players might have a hope of killing them earlier. I think this would add a new and unique element to this lumbering creature.

Also, if defeated by a unit with subdue animal, it would be great if they could become an elephant pen that automatically provided ivory.

i like it!!!

So you want Orthus x 15 on each map, except only harder to kill (before hunters) and starting on turn 1?

Besides, since it cant attack, 3 warriors could block it forever.

http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/7968/elephant_trampler.jpg

I'm not sure I like it. (BTW, they are STR 7)

The functional design for elephants are to allow for a target for hunting that doesn't threaten the player. In that regard its kind of like a mobile resource that you can decide if you want to pick it off early for the xp or wait for someone with subdue to capture it.

I really like that elephants aren't threatening, almost passive. Instead of everything else out in a dangeorus world finding an elephant is almost a gift. I wouldn't want to change that.

Any plans to add more "peaceful" barbs?
Seeing herds of wild horses or sheep on the map would be a really cool replacement for those boring bonus tiles, and it'd fit the Hippus theme of traveling nomads quite well.

Any plans to add more "peaceful" barbs?
Seeing herds of wild horses or sheep on the map would be a really cool replacement for those boring bonus tiles, and it'd fit the Hippus theme of traveling nomads quite well.

And defeating them would domesticate them?

And defeating them would domesticate them?

would be nice, as well as opening more resource slots

Ah okay, that makes sense. Though they do seem a bit strong if the intention is to be a free hunting target. You would have to sacrifice a lot of guys to take one down.

I do, however, like the idea of peaceful animals being a source of the resource (hence my idea about elephants providing ivory). I guess the tough thing would be to make their distribution fair.

As an alternative to making Elephants stronger than Hill Giants, why not give them 4 strength and the Fear promotion? You'd still need some powerful units to get past them (or an Adept with Spirit 1 :lol:), but it would have a similar effect and keep the AI from sending scouts to their gray, big-eared doom.

Not sure if the AI would do this (or if it is possible) but why not have captured elephants upgrade into forest/jungle clearing workers? It would give you a good reason to try to capture them in the early game.

I would also love to see a few more peaceful animals about and maybe a few with a low chance of attack (rhinos?).

would be nice, as well as opening more resource slots

only if you plan on not getting any more health bonus from them, or being able to trade them.

it might be a nifty little mechanic (that would require some AI coding) but however it was implemented it wouldn't free up any resource slots unless the resources were actually removed (meaning no health, or happiness, and no trading)

For this to work reasonable well, the "domesticated" unit would basically have to create the resource on an empty tile. Otherwise, it'd either create an improvement which wouldn't provide the resource, or create a building, which wouldn't provide the terrain benefits. still, it might be interesting.

Elephants currently fulfill the function of mobile, randomly impassible terrain. In effect they are like walking peaks for most of the game.Lol Yep. I was playing a Centaur rush and one of these beasts blocked my 'reinforcement road'. He stayed along that road the entire game slowing both my reinforcements and the returning Slaves. Eventually I had to put him down with some Lunatic Slaves. North of that lake was Acherons city which expanded to block my only other route.

http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b318/WhiteElk/blockage.jpg

I brought up the Ivory bonus for capturing an elephant (similar to the Silk bonus for a spider) in another thread, but I'm sure we don't want to bring the WWF in on us for Ivory exploitation.

I think the Elephants are fine the way they are. They do have minimal usage now as an XP farm and OK defenders (until Lizardmen show up - I can never understand how easily barb Lizardmen with no promotions can take out Elephants sometimes with promotions).

One general comment on the animals in FFH2: OK, I think we have grown used to our wolves, lions, tigers, bears, spiders, gorillas, etc. However, I am wondering why in a Fantasy-type mod we don't have, um, fantasy critters - things like Yeti, Gorgons, Cyclops, Hydras, and, well, invented things with names you cannot pronounce. I know we already have a bunch of summoned creatures and adding more to the wild ones might be a bit much, but something to think about.

[...]things like Yeti, Gorgons, Cyclops, Hydras, and,[...]

Nice idea. I would think that some will show up definetly in Shadow when quests are implemented but a Mancitore here and there would be nice. If there will be flying in the mod then a pegasi would be a must and it could be added to a melle hero so it could gain the fly ability.

Ah okay, that makes sense. Though they do seem a bit strong if the intention is to be a free hunting target. You would have to sacrifice a lot of guys to take one down.

One hunter with like combat II and subdue animal has an advantage against the elephant.

At times I'll capture a few Elephants to use as defenders in my new settlements. They make for very good city defenders especially for cities with a low defense. They are easy to capture with Recon units, but since Recon loses strength when attacking cities, the Elephants hold their own well enough.

It bothers me, how useful elephants are at city defense...

archers on hill cities are better than elephants i believe

for elephants and spiders, it might be good to remove the ivory and silk resources and just make those animals create a building that provides +1 happiness called Ivory farm or Silk farm (def need better names).

currently its such a waste to capture 2 spiders and building the spider pens, only 1 is needed, and even that is useless if you already have silk.

_Valis;5610186']Nice idea. I would think that some will show up definetly in Shadow when quests are implemented but a Mancitore here and there would be nice. If there will be flying in the mod then a pegasi would be a must and it could be added to a melle hero so it could gain the fly ability.

Really loved it while playing the Sheaim when my first Manticore came out of the planar gates. Same with the Minotaur.:)

I'm sure there are plenty of fantasy animals ready to volunteer to replace the bears, wolves, lions, etc.

archers on hill cities are better than elephants i believe

for elephants and spiders, it might be good to remove the ivory and silk resources and just make those animals create a building that provides +1 happiness called Ivory farm or Silk farm (def need better names).

currently its such a waste to capture 2 spiders and building the spider pens, only 1 is needed, and even that is useless if you already have silk.

I agree with the idea of having the captured animal provide happiness in the city where the pen/cage is built like Lions, Wolves, etc. instead of giving the Silk happiness benefit to all cities in a civ. That should come only from having a plantation on a Silk resource.

One thing I have found is if you build more Spider pens, you get more Silk which can be traded. The AI seems fond of trading for Silk, and you know they will never build a Spider Pen.

I wonder if you can build a Spider Pen for a baby spider?

:deadhorse:Bwa Ha Ha!
More powerful, later game animals would be good, but I don't want them spawning from turn one.

Hmm..how about giving the Barbarian State a Rouge Elephant as a War Elephant UU, with a greater level requirement, no building requirement, and the War Machine-like ability? Most elephants are peaceful, but I can see a bull elephant getting mad and really messing up the place.

Thats a pretty good Idea.

I am wondering why in a Fantasy-type mod we don't have, um, fantasy critters - things like Yeti, Gorgons, Cyclops, Hydras, and, well, invented things with names you cannot pronounce.

The only trouble there is it adds a lot more work for the art team I'm not sure they have time for :lol:

OTOH, IIRC Psychic Llamas is making a Hydra model (with changing numbers of heads!) that will be nice when its done.

Really, Cool.

I'd love to see elephants settleable like in AOI.

I think being able to make a elephant pen that adds one or two hammers to a city might be nice. Then you would have a choice of a decent unit or a semi decent building?

Elephant pen isn't a bad idea... alternatively, what about allowing elephants to transform themselves into an Ivory resource?

Elephants currently fulfill the function of mobile, randomly impassible terrain. In effect they are like walking peaks for most of the game. Why? They are a str 6 unit (so nothing can kill it until you are pretty advanced) but they don't attack, merely walk around randomly blocking terrain tiles. As they currently are, they may be fulfilling everything the devs intended, but they could be better.

So, my suggestion is to allow elephants to trample terrain improvements like the Doviello War Machine. I also suggest that elephants be able to move within cultural borders. That way, a roving elephant could wander in and trample your farm or road and generally run amok. There is historical precedent for this in ancient China where elephants used to be a major nuisance to cultivation until they were gradually displaced by hunting and human settlement.

To balance this, you might decrease the strength to say 5 so that players might have a hope of killing them earlier. I think this would add a new and unique element to this lumbering creature.

Also, if defeated by a unit with subdue animal, it would be great if they could become an elephant pen that automatically provided ivory.

I've captured elephants before usin a hunter. It ain't hard with the bonus gainst barbs and animals. But since they suck at attackin cities, I found em useless.

Elephant pen isn't a bad idea... alternatively, what about allowing elephants to transform themselves into an Ivory resource?

That's basically wat you do in Age of Ice to get the Mammoth Rider unit; you capture a Mammoth and it can be turned into ivory. As for the elephant pen, sounds cool. But it also seems more like somethin the Belsarephs would use.

Hmm..how about giving the Barbarian State a Rouge Elephant as a War Elephant UU, with a greater level requirement, no building requirement, and the War Machine-like ability? Most elephants are peaceful, but I can see a bull elephant getting mad and really messing up the place.

As long as I could capture it usin a hunter or beastmaster, that'd be cool. Like str 9 or so? W/o a -X% bonus gainst cities please. Cuz if it's gonna mess up the place, it needs to really do some damage. And it should be a hard unit to kill. (That's makes capturin it all the more satisfyin.) So, maybe have it show up when everyone's units are like str5 to 6. Maybe a modmod for this could be done.

I'll probably include it in my modmod (now if only I could xienwolf or Vehem to go ahead and do most if the SDK/xml schema work for me...)

I'm thinking that it should never spawn, but that high level elephants (those which have been attacked and survived a lot) should cheaply upgrade. Yes, you would be able to capture them. However, I'm thinking that may be Crazed/Enraged elephant upgrades, so you may need to keep capturing the same one over and over again.

I like the current elephant as it is. If you send in a hunter with a few promotions
(subdue animal etc.) they are not that hard to get rid of. And you get a great war-elephant in return :)

currently its such a waste to capture 2 spiders and building the spider pens, only 1 is needed, and even that is useless if you already have silk.

I take it you're not a fan of diplomacy?

In southeast asia, elaphants were, and still are, used as a replacement for tractors, and are used to pull heavey loads. I can see settling an Elaphant in a city for production, you could take it as a Goverment owened Elephant that is rented out to constrution sites and infastrutor operations, or the power things life bellows for smelters and the likes.

On thing I thought about yesterday was that it would be pretty cool if elephants, when hell terrain spread to their tile, were transformed into barbarian pit-beasts or manticores. I think that would be cool

What about more monsterus, like Mumakil. The trick would be to make them diferent.

All of the above is interesting (I too am enamored of the idea of capturing an Ivory depot), and as a Dwarf Fortress fan I'd love to see more "megabeasts" in the game, but mostly I'd like the elephant model scaled down just a bit, particularly now that the giants are shorter.

What about more monsterus, like Mumakil. The trick would be to make them diferent.

Ooh...4 horns, bigger, and freakin killers. Mwahahah! :rockon: