http://www.civfanatics.com/gallery/showimage.php?i=1263&original=1&c=24

Has anyone commented on this from the screenshots? It's a national wonder which eliminates all population unhealthiness, provides free specialists from "forest preserves" and removes access to coal for the city.

I wonder what a "forest preserve" is? Possibly a new improvement for the late game?

Allegedly, the Forest Preserve (Biology) is an improvement built on a forest or jungle tile that increases the chance of the forest to spread to nearby tiles.

Though why you'd want a jungle to spread is beyond me. Environmentalism or no.

Though why you'd want a jungle to spread is beyond me. Environmentalism or no.

Agreed. I've often wished there was some disincentive to chopping jungles... something like an "Exotic Animals" resource, which provides lots of tourism Commerce and perhaps +Happiness in the later stages of the game, but disappears if the jungle is chopped.

Well if we were being realistic, chopping a jungle should provide a tile that loses all most of its food productivity after a few years, as the soil is depleted and destroyed....

Well if we were being realistic, chopping a jungle should provide a tile that loses all most of its food productivity after a few years, as the soil is depleted and destroyed....If it were realistic, chopping Jungle would cause unhappiness after Enviromentalism was discovered - taking into consideration all of the jungle you've chopped prior to getting the tech aswell!

It's only a national wonder, so it will not be too powerful.

Maybe forest preserve will remove the food penalty from jungle and then it will be interesting.

By that point who care's? Either your nuking the map into a desert, or some far off civ is nuking barbs to slow you down with it.

Trees in the desert? :p

Does anyone know what the food and hammer output of a Forest Preserve tile improvement is going to be? Will it be worth building in its own right like a Lumbermill which adds 1 hammer and allows the river bonus as a minimum? It comes with the Biology tech IIRC, so will it add food? I somehow doubt it.

The ability of spreading forests; will not apply to a tile with an improvement, so we'd have to give up a potential farm on a grassland or plains (+2 food with Biology) for the % chance (who knows how good it is) that a new forest will spread from the neighbouring Forest Preserves. It might be useful in a city that has been heavilly pillaged, but few players will scrap a cottage, farm or workshop just for the chance of another forest.

Spreading forests could be good in a few cities that have serious health problems (perhaps due to floodplains and the various buildings like coal power) but by that stage of the game there are other health solutions such as medic and refrigerator. Only in the city with the National Park wonder will it be beneficial to make more forests, so they can be converted to Forest Preserves and thereby get another free specialist (effectively worth 2 free food and 1 happiness although the free health is not needed).

So is this a tile improvment that will see much use?

Edit: I suppose the Forest Preseve could add another 0.5 health to add to the inherent 0.5 health from the forest. That would effectively be worth an extra food in a city with health problem but nothing elsewhere. That bonus would not require the tile to be worked.

Well, I think that perhaps they will solve that by boosting jungle and forest via ecology civic. I mean, right now it is utter crap. National park and mass transit have rendered ecology and its helth bonuses pretty much useless.

Is Mass Transit back in?

YES!

Allegedly, the Forest Preserve (Biology) is an improvement built on a forest or jungle tile that increases the chance of the forest to spread to nearby tiles.

Though why you'd want a jungle to spread is beyond me. Environmentalism or no.
You can just keep a swat of jungle around.. then when you have access to national park, plop down a city in the middle.. rush (cash or engineers) national park..
20 free specialists (22 with mercantilism and statue of liberty).. and you dont have to worry about the unhealthiness from the jungle :p

Well, I think that perhaps they will solve that by boosting jungle and forest via ecology civic. I mean, right now it is utter crap. National park and mass transit have rendered ecology and its helth bonuses pretty much useless.

I suspect that the health bonus from mass transit will offset a health penalty from Industrial Parks. National Park, being a National Wonder, will only effect one city. If so, then the net benefit from ecology won't be affected much.

There's already a thread on this (started by me!) :)

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=228326

Gyathaar:
You can just keep a swat of jungle around.. then when you have access to national park, plop down a city in the middle.. rush (cash or engineers) national park..
20 free specialists (22 with mercantilism and statue of liberty).. and you dont have to worry about the unhealthiness from the jungle

Wow. A size 1 city with 20 free specialists. Wow.

(Though I don't often have that much forest or jungle left by the end game - advanced starts only, I think).

Maybe it'll require the city to work the preserves in order to get the free specialists. That could create a micro management problem though.

I can't see it allowing a size 1 city to have 20 free specialists.

Wow. A size 1 city with 20 free specialists. Wow.

(Though I don't often have that much forest or jungle left by the end game - advanced starts only, I think).

It is stating the obvious, but you had better be running Caste System and Representation for best effect from that tactic. It will take a size 1 city a long time to construct all the buildings for 20 specialist slots, even if it does have 20 free citizens (gives 20 hammers / turn)

Yep. But who wouldn't want a size one city with specialists producing 120 beakers and 60 great people points per turn.

Your forgetting that to get the bonus all those squares have to have forest on them which could take some doing, and then all those tiles have to be improved, and you have to build all those buildings. So once you get all those specialists you've earned them.

Somehow I think you'll need to work the improved terrain though. That makes more sense. Even though I'm still not sure how a park is producing anything, beyond happiness and perhaps a reduction in global warming.

Windbourne:
Your forgetting that to get the bonus all those squares have to have forest on them which could take some doing, and then all those tiles have to be improved, and you have to build all those buildings. So once you get all those specialists you've earned them.

No I'm not. I said that I don't often have that kind of terrain by the end game. What buildings? Civics - caste system and representation - don't require building prerequisites and the Gyathaar's initial idea was based on using universal sufferage or an engineer to rush the national park.

Somehow I think you'll need to work the improved terrain though. That makes more sense. Even though I'm still not sure how a park is producing anything, beyond happiness and perhaps a reduction in global warming.

The national park information makes no mention of working tiles to get the specialists.

National Park details. (http://www.civfanatics.com/gallery/showimage.php?i=1263&c=24)

The national park information makes no mention of working tiles to get the specialists.

National Park details. (http://www.civfanatics.com/gallery/showimage.php?i=1263&c=24)

By the same token, it doesn't mention that the Forest Preserves need to be in the city's fat cross, or even its cultural radius. Heck, it doesn't even say that you have to own the Forest Preserves. You could get +1 free specialist for every Forest Preserve in the entire world! :mischief:

By the same token, it doesn't mention that the Forest Preserves need to be in the city's fat cross, or even its cultural radius. Heck, it doesn't even say that you have to own the Forest Preserves. You could get +1 free specialist for every Forest Preserve in the entire world! :mischief:

It does say the NP offers a free specialist for every Preserve within the city-radius. ;)

The wonder information doesn't mention the terrain improvement either, so it's all speculation. If it is an improvement than normally you need to work the tile to get the benefit, such as extra commerce from coastal squares.

We don't know for sure what the preserves are. If they are terrain improvements I'd say it's 90% likely they will need to be worked.

Caste system specifically says which specialists you can get, I believe it excludes the Engineer. I'm not sure on representation since I usually have most buildings in my city by the time I get it.

Caste System does indeed exclude engineers - they're simply too valuable for popping Wonders to allow them with Caste.

It does say the NP offers a free specialist for every Preserve within the city-radius. ;)

Ah, I didn't read the Sid's Tips. In that case, it seems to imply that you don't need to work the preserve, as it simply states "preserve in the city radius."

If you could stick it down in a jungle it would be worth building. I occasionally have big patches of jungle left around the time I have Biology. I'm usually too busy warmongering to chop the jungle and put cities there.

Windbourne:
Caste system specifically says which specialists you can get, I believe it excludes the Engineer. I'm not sure on representation since I usually have most buildings in my city by the time I get it.

I'm not sure I get the relevance to whether or not caste system allows great engineers. I only suggested using caste system in the national park city with scientist specialists.

I think it is possible to get the 1 size city with 20 specialists, it is a national wonder and you can only have one of it (and all can have one of it), and you need to have a perfect spot for it. It is possible, and it would be pretty fun to :)

I think a lot of the power of this national wonder in a normal game will depend on how fast the Forest Reserves regenerate new forests. Then it would be possible to build this, as well as other buildings, in a newly captured city that had been pillaged into oblivion as part of its recovery. If it had say 6 forests left you could turn those into preserves and allow them to make more forests on the grasslands, plains and hills that had their farms or cottages pillaged.

In Warlords the normal rate of regeneration is very low something like 1 chance in 10,000 per turn. Even if the Forest Reserve makes that 100 times more likely it will be something like 1% chance per turn and too slow to be a viable strategy for the National Park to regenerate its lost forests. But if it were higher, say a 10% chance per turn, then a city could regrow its forests and turn those into even more reserves, thereby building up a powerful resource.

Another thing we don't know yet is how good the Forest Reserve is as a tile in its own right. What will its food and hammer return be on a forest tile that has been turned into a Forest Reserve? I expect it to be similar to the unimproved forest tile. If that is the case then a city, using a couple of good food sources could still work grassland forests and even plains forests for hammers and food to grow its population and build its infrastructure. I see the National Park as a building that complements other buildings in a normal city. The real citizens would be working sub standard forest tiles but getting some return and the free specialists form the National Park would give the major output from the city.

The wonder information doesn't mention the terrain improvement either, so it's all speculation. If it is an improvement than normally you need to work the tile to get the benefit, such as extra commerce from coastal squares.

We don't know for sure what the preserves are. If they are terrain improvements I'd say it's 90% likely they will need to be worked.

Caste system specifically says which specialists you can get, I believe it excludes the Engineer. I'm not sure on representation since I usually have most buildings in my city by the time I get it.

You can't run Priests with caste system either, I believe.

I'm really excited about the potential for OCCs. With the Globe Theatre and National Park (both National Wonders), the city would be immune to unhappiness and disease, allowing support for as many people the food could feed! I can't wait to try it out. :D