After seeing that I was not alone into suggesting more modern wonders, let's make suggestions about it! And yep, we already debated the convenience of their inclussion.

So, which modern wonders would you include on BTS and which effects would they had? Keep in mind that "modern" comprises from the end of the renaissance until nowadays.

So, these are my picks:

Sidney's Opera house (http://www.sydneyoperahouse.com/)
Prequisites: mass media
+1 culture in your cities with acess to music hits, movies and musicals (that is, a +3 culture in every city if you happen to have each one of these resources)
6 culture. +2GP (artist)

Dubai's towers. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dubai)
Prequisites: Plastics
Effects: +15% culture and +2 gold per trade route in the city where it is built.
5 culture. +2 GP (merchant)

ITER reactor (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ITER)
Prequisite: Nuclear fussion
Effects: +20% production in every city of your civilization and of you allies / vassals.
3 culture. +2 GP (engineer)


CERN Particle accelerator (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CERN)
Prequisite: Super conductors
Effects: Discovers 1 extra technology, grants one great scientist, +25% science on the city where it is built
4 culture. +2 GP (scientist)

International court
Prequisite: UN
Effects: +20% to your votes at the UN council. Can accuse a rival civilization for war crimes /genocide.
3 culture. +2 GP (merchant)

GPS satellite net (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GPS)
Prequisite: Space flight, computers
Effects: Every air unit starts with the accuracy promotion. Higher chance of sucess at the spyonage missions.
2 culture. +2 GP (spy? otherwise, engineer)

Wikipedia
+20% Science rate in all cities
+25% War Weariness in all opposing civilizations
+6 culture +2 GP (Scientist)
Comes with the internet :)

Sydney and CERN :goodjob: , otherwise I don't think much more should be in...

Globen (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Globe_Arena)
Doubles effect of Colosseums.
+6 culture
+1 free scientist (largest scale model of the solar system)

The Mirage Casino- +75 Gold per turn for turn for the city it's built in.

CERN is a very good idea.
Not too modern, but a missing wonder:

Trans-Siberian Railway (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trans-Siberian_Railway)
No maintenance in any city on the continent.
All units gets +1 movement on enemy territory.
Generates Great Engineer

Ah, The trans-siberian railway! I forgot about that one. Very nice one, although the no manteinance on the continent is, woa, too much overpowered, not to mention that it wouldn't make too much sense historic wise (an wonder that is a substitute for statal propierty being built by Russia?).

I think that another effect could be this one:
Your top 4 continental cities gets connected via railway (it is automatically built).
Railways reduces the movement of your units 1/10th instead of 1/8th.
Every city in your continent is connected (no need to build a raiload to each one of them) or +1 commerce to every tile with a railroad
Gets obsolete with superconductor?

Particle accelerator all the way. A good idea.

How about FIFA? It realized the *truly* global entertainment events.
6 instances of "WorldCup TV rights" resource to owner, giving +1 happiness :lol:
+6 culture, +1 GP (merchant)

Particle accelerator all the way. A good idea.

How about FIFA? It realized the *truly* global entertainment events.
6 instances of "WorldCup TV rights" resource to owner, giving +1 happiness :lol:
+6 culture, +1 GP (merchant)

cool idea :)
i hope they included world cups (and olympic games) in random events.

Wikipedia
+20% Science rate in all cities
+25% War Weariness in all opposing civilizations
+6 culture +2 GP (Scientist)
Comes with the internet :)

Don't you mean -20% science rate?

EDIT: I'd also add -1 diplo modifiers because of the haters that muck up the other leaders' pages

The problem with a lot of Modern Wonders is you'd be better off focusing on the space race than trying to squeeze 3 more culture out of all your cities.

That said, I like Wonders, and I like everything from the industrial era on a lot:

- The Golden Gate Bridge
- The Suez, Panama Canals
- The Anti-Fascist Wall of Berlin
- The Seven Sisters of Moscow
- The Autobahn
- Odaiba Island
- Empire State Building
- Delta Works
- Silicon Valley
- The Freedom Tower (in progress)
- Clock of the Long Now (in progress)
- All Species (in progress)
- Rosetta Project (in progress)

(also, the Dubai tower is called Burj Al-Arab.)

Ah, The trans-siberian railway! I forgot about that one. Very nice one, although the no manteinance on the continent is, woa, too much overpowered, not to mention that it wouldn't make too much sense historic wise (an wonder that is a substitute for statal propierty being built by Russia?).

I think that another effect could be this one:
Your top 4 continental cities gets connected via railway (it is automatically built).
Railways reduces the movement of your units 1/10th instead of 1/8th.
Every city in your continent is connected (no need to build a raiload to each one of them) or +1 commerce to every tile with a railroad
Gets obsolete with superconductor?Simply allow the player to designate one single city (on the same continent) and the railroad will be automatically built between the capital and that city for free.

Connecting the four largest cities could easily mean you get a pretty much complete railroad network in some cases, and a hopelessly useless knot of railroads in others. The point of getting a single line connecting A to B where A and B ideally is at opposite ends of the civ will kinda be lost.

More to the point, I would be hugely surprised if any of the siberian cities connected by the historic TSR was even on the top 10 list (before being connected, that is).

Then it would be easier to just make the wonder autoupgrade all roads to railroads.

The problem with a lot of Modern Wonders is you'd be better off focusing on the space race than trying to squeeze 3 more culture out of all your cities.
Well, turn off the Space Race victory condition then... ;)

Why not add another Victory Condition to support loads of new Wonders?

Wonder Win: the first civ to have built (not conquered) n Wonders wins!
...where n is a value dependant on world size, number of starting civs and the like.

:)

The problem with a lot of Modern Wonders is you'd be better off focusing on the space race than trying to squeeze 3 more culture out of all your cities.

That's why the wonders that I suggested had the effects that I propposed ;-)

The Sidney's opera is accesible earlier than that and boost your culture.

The Dubai towers (The Burj Al-Arab is only one of the many super structures that are being built there ;-)) represent a huge culture bonus that can be decisive towards a cultural victory.

The ITER reactor pretty much helps to get any type of victory since production bonuses helps getting units, space shuttle parts and wonders faster.

The CERN particle accelerator is just a way to finish the tech tree earlier so you can focus into gold production.

The international court is a clear push towards diplomatic victory, specially if you don't have enough population to dominate the voting polls.

The GPS satellite net is a boost for your army and spionage missions, which are helpful both for a domination and a spaceship victory.

About the transiberian raiload, I think that an automatic upgrade of all your roads towards railoads would be awesome, specially if you have a difficult acess to coal and / or have a huge continental empire (that would make more historical sense too).

The empire state (or the whole Manhattan financial complex, if you wish) is also a great suggestion for a modern wonder. I think that it should boost corporations, something like this:
Empire state building
Culture: 5
Prequisites: Corporations
+50% to the gold generated by corporations in your cities, -50% to the gold generated by your corporations when installed in other civ's cities

And great to know that you like the idea of the CERN :-) I also think that this is a truthly realistic yet science - fiction-ish wonder.

Still, why so little love for the ITER? It is one of the biggest international projects ever and it is crucial for our civilization to gain acess to fussion energy.

Freedom Tower anyone?

(also, the Dubai tower is called Burj Al-Arab.)Well, they have a taller building under construction, Burj Dubai.

As someone else said, many of these wonders would come when you will need to focus on the space race. They would mostly suit players trying to milk their scores, i.e., being on the edge of a domination/conquest victory.

But some of them do sound cool, especially the Trans-Siberian. It could perhaps connect by rail any unconnected cities on the same continent.

Freedom Tower anyone?
Nice, but which effects do you propose for it?


As someone else said, many of these wonders would come when you will need to focus on the space race. They would mostly suit players trying to milk their scores, i.e., being on the edge of a domination/conquest victory.
There are another types of victory. Am I the only one that strives for cultural victories? Also, space race victories can be helped by said wonders.

Delta Works
-100% of the damage caused by disasters
+3 GP (Engineer)

Nice, but which effects do you propose for it?
+1 Happiness everytime someone declares war on you?

National Wonders
Alcatraz
CDC (Centers for Disease Control and Prevention CDC)

Zombo-com
200 :hammers:
Available with Fiber Optics and Internet.
Effect: Enables the infinite. Anything is possible.

:lol:

http://zombo.com/

Culture is always iffy in its usefulness. Even as it stands now, it's often better to just spend your hammers on raw culture than to build a big culture generator like Hollywood.

The idea of a "Wonder Victory" is a neat idea, though. At least, that's what the cultural victory is supposed to be, except that the luxury slider and hammers-->culture count for more.

I honestly think that the "culture production" (the turning of hammers into culture) should be heavily nerfed in order to make the culture victory based in long term planning and wonders instead of raw production.

No Child Left Behind Act (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No_child_left_behind)
Prequisites: Fascism
-25% :science: in all cities
All universities make 3 :gold: per turn

International Terror - Project

Double available espionage points vs. those who do not share your state religion. You may attempt to destroy one building of someone who dosent share your religion per turn for free.

Now talking seriously, I would love to see terrorism and propaganda implementated properly on a future civ iteration / mod...

By any chance is the CN tower a wonder yet? I foregot.

I like Odaiba Island as a wonder. Maybe...
+50% :hammers:
No unhappiness from overcrowding in four largest cities

The Empire State Building

+25% :commerce: in city
Automatically founds corporation of choice

The problem with a lot of Modern Wonders is you'd be better off focusing on the space race than trying to squeeze 3 more culture out of all your cities.

That said, I like Wonders, and I like everything from the industrial era on a lot:

- The Golden Gate Bridge
- The Suez, Panama Canals
- The Anti-Fascist Wall of Berlin
- The Seven Sisters of Moscow
- The Autobahn
- Odaiba Island
- Empire State Building
- Delta Works
- Silicon Valley
- The Freedom Tower (in progress)
- Clock of the Long Now (in progress)
- All Species (in progress)
- Rosetta Project (in progress)

(also, the Dubai tower is called Burj Al-Arab.)

One of the canals should be in, they are a great moder wonder, I prefer the Panama one.

Panama Canal (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Panama_Canal)
+1 movement on water OR/AND
All ships can carry one more unit OR/AND
+ 1 ATT/DEF for ships OR/AND
+ production in ships

Still, why so little love for the ITER? It is one of the biggest international projects ever and it is crucial for our civilization to gain acess to fussion energy.

I don't think the ITER belongs in the game. At this point all it is is a bunch of paperwork. It may never be built, and even if it is, there's no guarantee that it will do anything useful. For the same reason, I don't like haveing the space elevator in the game.

I like the other wonder ideas though. My suggestion would be to have the Dubai towers simply provide a lump sum of culture, like +5000 or something, since the game probably won't go on long enough to have an extra 15% culture be more than what you'd get from simply using the hammers you'd put into the wonder on building culture, instead.

Skynet
Prequisites: Future Tech
10 turns after Skynet is built everyone loses :D

The Wright Flyer
- Available with Flight
- Required to build any heavier-than-air craft (not Zeppelins)
- +50% :science: in its city
- Free airport in every city on its continent

Just an idea. :D

Port Authority (National Wonder)

Can be built in any coastal city with Harbor, Drydock (Requires x Harbors and Drydocks based on map size)

+1 :traderoute:
+1 :commerce: in every water tile
+50% Trade Route Yield (Additional +25% with Airport, Additional +25% with Oil) in city
+2 :yuck:

By any chance is the CN tower a wonder yet? I foregot.

The CN Tower has appeared in some Civ III mods, but would be a worthy one for Civ IV: built in 1976 by Canadian National (Railways) who wanted to demonstrate the strength of Canadian industry by building a tower taller than any other in the world. Building the CN Tower was a vast and ambitious project that involved 1,537 workers who worked 24 hours a day, five days a week for 40 months to completion. The CN Tower was opened to the public on June 26, 1976... (http://www.cntower.ca/portal/) As a mid-20th century construction it is good choice for a modern wonder vis-a-vis the timing of the endgame. :)

And to everyone, when considering criteria and candidates for modern wonders I think this is a very good place to start: In 1995, the CN Tower was classified as one of the Seven Wonders of the Modern World by the American Society of Civil Engineers. The World’s Tallest Building shares this designation with the Itaipu Dam on the Brazil/Paraguay border, the Golden Gate Bridge in San Francisco, the Panama Canal, the Chunnel under the English Channel, the North Sea Protection Works off the European coast, and the Empire State Building.

I propose this addition: the International Space Station (The I.S.S.)
- build as a "project"
- requires Robotics and Satellites
- Doubled construction speed with gold (a lot of gold is used in space electronics), base cost: 4000 hammers
- +50% to your votes towards a UN victory (One could win the game very quickly once it's built! :) It could thus possibly allow you to steal a diplomatic victory from a powerful rival at the last minute!)
- +4 GP points: +2 GE and +2 GS (the I.S.S. is near the end of the game so the benefits should be generous and decisive)

The 91-22-5 Interchange or whatever the Orange Crush is
Units using your roads now take 2 turns to move 1 tile.

Many good have been said, Empire State Building and Cabal of Panama are my favourites too. New suggestions:

The White House (reduces Civic upkeep and maintenance)
Reflecting Absence (no war weariness, war causes happiness :))
Arc de Triomphe (more production in all cities)
Washinton Monument (more culture in all cities)
Lincoln Memorial (+100% cottage, hamlet, village growth)
Victoria Memorial (reduced vassal state costs)
Europoort (more food in all cities)
Mount Palomar (more research in all cities)
US Marine Corps War Memorial (no unit upkeep costs)
30 St Mary Axe (more trade routes, unlimited Merchant in all cities)
Standard Oil Company Headquarters (+50% gold w/ Oil in all cities)
El Angel (+100% food from improvements)
Angel of the North (+100% production from improvements)
Charles de Gaulle International Airport (unlimited airlift in all cities)

- Firaxis:

gives 7 hit computer games

Austin Powers' Mojo

+2 :) , X2 Population Growth in city where it is built

Can only be built by a Great Spy unit.

- Firaxis:

gives 7 hit computer games

What? The great cybrxkhan does not suggest PHO as a wonder? :p :D

What? The great cybrxkhan does not suggest PHO as a wonder? :p :D

Pho is not (that) modern...

but...

Pho (World Wonder)

- Gives 7 noodle bowls that give +1 :)
- +1 :health: in all cities (Pho is a nutritious meal)
- +1 :) in all cities (Pho tastes good --> people are happy)
- +5% :commerce: in all cities (since people like it, it makes KA-CHING)
- +5% :hammers: in all cities (since people eat it so much, it energizes them)
- +10% miltary unit production (military people like it too, helps in training faster)
- -50% maintainence cost in all cities (since people are so happy and energetic, it makes corruption less around and what not)
- +25% :science: (studies have shown that Pho increases brain capacity. :P )
- +2 :culture: in all cities (Pho is a cultural food, duh)
- +50% :food: in all cities (people want Pho, so they work harder to make the food for Pho)

heh heh, hows taht?

By any chance is the CN tower a wonder yet? I foregot.

Agree. another one, Banff National Park

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Banff_National_Park
Banff National Park is Canada's oldest national park, established in 1885, in the Canadian Rockies. The park, located 120 kilometres (80 mi) west of Calgary in the province of Alberta, encompasses 6,641 square kilometres (2,564 sq mi)[1] of mountainous terrain, with numerous glaciers and ice fields, dense coniferous forest, and alpine landscapes. The Icefields Parkway extends from Lake Louise, connecting to Jasper National Park in the north. Provincial forests and Yoho National Park are neighbours to the west, while Kootenay National Park is located to the south and Kananaskis Country to the southeast. The main commercial centre of the park is the town of Banff, in the Bow River valley.

What? The great cybrxkhan does not suggest PHO as a wonder? :p :D

Don't give him ideas... :lol:

Stevie

Lack of superstition makes people happy.
Increased sunshine in my life increases crop yield.
Immune to flood damage due to ability to reach higher ground.

Their are some nice ideas in this thread, keep it up.

By the way a lot of these have been implemented already in various mods, see the C & C forum.

Are you planning a mod after your "survey" ?

Another option for the Dubai towers could be a +75% culture output produced via conversion of culture into hammers on the city where it is built. That would be a real push for cultural victory, me thinks.

I don't think the ITER belongs in the game. At this point all it is is a bunch of paperwork. It may never be built, and even if it is, there's no guarantee that it will do anything useful. For the same reason, I don't like haveing the space elevator in the game.

The ITER is a very real project. Unlike the Space elevator, several nations has already pour billions on it. When a project is founded by USA, China, the EU and India, you know that they are into something. It WILL be built, there has been a too much of a high investment to just retreat back. About "not doing anything useful", well, it is one of the most crucial projects for mankind, IMHO. I have several friends / familiars of mine which are engineers and physicians and they think that it will help greatly the fussion reseach, and that the future of the superpowers will be pretty much defined by their capacity to access to the fussion technology.

Big Ben is another.

All right, I'm going for some Renaissance but not too modern wonder ideas, since most of the above are contemporary.

How about...

Leonardo's Workshop
Cost: 500
Prereq.: Paper
+4 culture, +2 GP (great engineer)
Unit upgrades cost 33% less

Ha! Back from its grave!

Mir or International Space Station

Cable News: avaible with mass media + satelites
- 2-5 extra happy face for each radio station in the world on its city (except when at war)
- extra culture for each radio station in the world
- all of your rivals radio station increase war wearines

NACA - NASA: avaible with fligth
- +100% production when building aircraft, airports, SDI and spaceship parts (not cumulative with space elevator)
- airports generate +25% research and give +1 trade route
- provides 1 Great scientist + 1 great engineer

Human genome project: avaible with genetics + fiber optics
- no unhealtines in your cities
- provides 1 great scientist

Fox news

-25 war weariness
+ 1000% idiotic blind patriotism

Random event: Ann Coulter appears on TV and all cities go into revolt

An FYI for those interested: a RW worldwide campaign just wrapped up to see what the "new" Seven Wonders of the World are. Most are actually in the game, as of BtS. The seven wonders, as voted by the people (bold items are what's in Civ4):
-Machu Picchu (as an Incan city name)
-Cristo Redemptor (BtS Wonder)
-Chichen Itza
-Great Wall of China
-Colloseum of Rome (best represented by city improv.)
-Taj Mahal
-Petra (city built on the cliffsides of Jordan, also seen at the end of Indiana Jones and the Last Crusdade)

A lot of other honorable mentions are also already in Civ4 (Stonehenge, Angkor Wat, Hagia Sophia, etc.). Too bad there's no time left to add Petra (I concede that the Colloseum and Machu Picchu are already in the game). Petra, as a major trading city, could of given a major boost in commerce/trade routes, perhaps.

Here's a link to the news story: http://www.cnn.com/2007/TRAVEL/07/06/seven.wonders/index.html

Could we go back to suggesting Buildings instead of corporations?

I really like the idea of some "future" wonders. The "Long Now Foundation" is involved with some really cool ones:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clock_of_the_Long_Now
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rosetta_project
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/All_Species_Foundation

Although, that late in the game, it's hard to imagine they would be useful for any victory condition. But they strike me as victory conditions in of themselves for their contribution to humanity.

speaking of future wonders... will the Next War scenario/mod will have any new wonders?

Future Wonders don't work for me.

heh. they had some in Empier Earth II

Human Genome Project
+3 Health in all cities
+10% research with laboratory
+2 GP (Great Scientist)

NACA - NASA: avaible with fligth
- +100% production when building aircraft, airports, SDI and spaceship parts (not cumulative with space elevator)
- airports generate +25% research and give +1 trade route
- provides 1 Great scientist + 1 great engineer

NASA should also be implemented as a corporation that helps you get the Space Race victory.

NASA Corporation.

Consumes: Aluminium (I don't remember other Civ resources... Sorry, don't play Civ for 4 or 5 months... :p )
Produces: Double speed production of space ship parts.


An FYI for those interested: a RW worldwide campaign just wrapped up to see what the "new" Seven Wonders of the World are. Most are actually in the game, as of BtS. The seven wonders, as voted by the people (bold items are what's in Civ4):
-Machu Picchu (as an Incan city name)
-Cristo Redemptor (BtS Wonder)
-Chichen Itza
-Great Wall of China
-Colloseum of Rome (best represented by city improv.)
-Taj Mahal
-Petra (city built on the cliffsides of Jordan, also seen at the end of Indiana Jones and the Last Crusdade)

A lot of other honorable mentions are also already in Civ4 (Stonehenge, Angkor Wat, Hagia Sophia, etc.). Too bad there's no time left to add Petra (I concede that the Colloseum and Machu Picchu are already in the game). Petra, as a major trading city, could of given a major boost in commerce/trade routes, perhaps.

Here's a link to the news story: http://www.cnn.com/2007/TRAVEL/07/06/seven.wonders/index.html

Petra could be an Arabian, Byzantium, Romanian or a Persian city... All of them owned it.

Petra could be an Arabian, Byzantium, Romanian or a Persian city... All of them owned it.

Hopefully, they will send it on over to the Byzantines in BtS. Besides, I can think of only a handful of Byzantine cities not covered by Rome or another civ to be in the game (Antioch, Nicomedia, Venice [if HRE doesn't get it], etc.), so Petra could definitely fill out the city name list. Funny that it never has made it into the game yet, as Petra is a fairly important city, archaelogically and historically.

Trouble is, NASA's not a corporation, but a government agency. Interesting idea for a National Wonder, though.

Space Agency: +100% spaceship production in its city, +50% :science:

Could we go back to suggesting Buildings instead of corporations?

Only if you go back to the Cathy avatar instead of the ferret. :lol:

:joke:

Trouble is, NASA's not a corporation, but a government agency. Interesting idea for a National Wonder, though.

Space Agency: +100% spaceship production in its city, +50% :science:



Only if you go back to the Cathy avatar instead of the ferret. :lol:

:joke:


well, NASA is American, and the game obviously has some AMerican bias on wonders, so maybe NASA wuldn't be that bad...

and i want the Catherine avatar back too! :joke:

Monorail (or something of that nature)
No movement costs on tiles with railroads within cultural borders.

I'm sticking with my Ferret!