While the general Hall of Fame is an ongoing competition, we like to run time-definite competitions between updates that we call Gauntlets. Standard Hall of Fame rules (*) still apply, but any games meeting the settings will be counted towards the Gauntlet.

(*) Please read the >> HOF rules << (http://hof.civfanatics.net/civ4/rules.php) BEFORE playing!


Settings:

Victory Condition: Culture (though all victory conditions must be enabled)
Difficulty: Prince
Starting Era: Ancient
Map Size: Standard
Map Type: Continents
Speed: Epic
Civ: Korea
Opponents: Any
Version: 2.08.004
Date: June 27th to July 9th
The earliest finish date wins, with score as a tiebreaker.

What is legendary culture on Epic speed? I've always played culture victories on faster speeds...

75,000.

I predict that there will be a lot of games that beat any submission that I happen to make, as I really suck at cultural victories even when I have traits that seemingly help more than Wang's.

OK. My standard approch to cultural victory requires the Sistine Chapel. So what are the tactics for the Koreans to get Sistine Chapel first?

OK. My standard approch to cultural victory requires the Sistine Chapel. So what are the tactics for the Koreans to get Sistine Chapel?
Build a bunch of Hwachas and capture it!

That's a risky strategy if it ends up being on the other side of the world.

well, i've never tried cultural with korea. but he's financial, and he starts with mysticism and mining. so you could try the "learn monotheism and pop theology with a GP" path if you want sistine chapel and don't want to beat people up i suppose.

The Sistine Chapel is nice to have, but you know it's not necessary. I wouldn't worry too much about grabbing it at the expense of, say, getting the religions spread and the religious buildings up.

How can I play with Korea in version 1.61.011?

How can I play with Korea in version 1.61.011?

You cannot play it - Koreans are only in Warlords - no Vanilla Gauntlet currently :cry:

How can I play with Korea in version 1.61.011?

You cannot play it - Koreans are only in Warlords - no Vanilla Gauntlet currently :cry:
Sorry guys, we forgot Korea was only in warlords.

If you don't mind, can I ask why you haven't gotten the Warlords Expansion? There are a lot good features.

That's a risky strategy if it ends up being on the other side of the world.

Farm artists - caste system and lots of food, temples, etc and the old cultural slider will do more than the chapel. At prince though, you should be able to build anything you want. Grab some capitals when you have axes, COL and pop Philo, maybe one more religion.

Read this: http://www.civfanatics.com/civ4/strategy/cultural_beginner.php

Winning quickly will be the trick.

Hehe, a nice way to get rid of those "I still have vanilla"-gamers. ;-)

Sorry guys, we forgot Korea was only in warlords.

If you don't mind, can I ask why you haven't gotten the Warlords Expansion? There are a lot good features.

Speaking for myself (my vanilla sad smilie was in the major thread ;)), I wasn't impressed by the changes/additions in Warlords when it came out, and vanilla still had a lot of playability. BTS, on the other hand, sounds like it has a lot of cool additions, and I do intend to get that.

Hehe, a nice way to get rid of those "I still have vanilla"-gamers. ;-)
We're not looking to get rid of anyone. We just didn't think there was still so much Vanilla vibrancy within the HOF community.

We are considering opening a Vanilla Gauntlet before the next update. Patience...

I stuffed up my first attempt at this because I got all complacent about being "only" on Prince level and forgot to build any armies. :crazyeye:

Game 2 is going much better, with cathedrals up and cities flipping to me left right and centre. The aim here should be to beat my date of the last Monarch cultural gauntlet (about 1850 AD I think.)

So in my first game I find myself on a continent with Mansa Musa...so what should I do with him? Use him as a trade partner, or boot him from the island? The continent is large enough that I can pobably get nine cities even if I let him live...assuming he stays of MY land.:p

You'll have so much culture you'll end up taking over his land anyway.

If you have Mansa close to you, you should cherish him as a teching partner I think. He researches well, as you know, and will trade every tech he has, as you also know. If I only had one neighbour, I would choose Mansa every time.

I have submitted my first game, even though I thought it was rubbish. So I am number 1 in the Gauntlet. heh Yeah, I know. But don't begrudge me my moment of glory. Won't happen again :)

I shall try a second game, for sure. But I have to say that my first map was absolutely terrific, just my play that was rubbish. I didn't realise how good it was until I started exploring.

If you don't mind, can I ask why you haven't gotten the Warlords Expansion? There are a lot good features.

I haven't "finished" with Vanilla yet. Thousands of fun hours ahead. I won't be rushing through the stages.


We're not looking to get rid of anyone. We just didn't think there was still so much Vanilla vibrancy within the HOF community.

We are considering opening a Vanilla Gauntlet before the next update. Patience...

Oh, yes, pretty please, it's culture, let me play

Hi all, thought I'd say hello. I'm new and I just submitted my first game to the hall of fame, it was for this gauntlet. I finished at 1842 AD, managed to get every religion too. I think I can do better, but it's a good first start. I just can't seem to stop playing this game....;)

Hi all, thought I'd say hello. I'm new and I just submitted my first game to the hall of fame, it was for this gauntlet. I finished at 1842 AD, managed to get every religion too. I think I can do better, but it's a good first start. I just can't seem to stop playing this game....;)

:band: Welcome to CFC and more importantly, welcome to HOF! :band:

So in my first game I find myself on a continent with Mansa Musa...so what should I do with him? Use him as a trade partner, or boot him from the island? The continent is large enough that I can pobably get nine cities even if I let him live...assuming he stays of MY land.:p

Keep him around, Mansa is the best trader of all the AIs, he will usually trade any tech he gets (for the right price). I always regret having to snuff him out, if I need his land.

Sorry guys, we forgot Korea was only in warlords.

If you don't mind, can I ask why you haven't gotten the Warlords Expansion? There are a lot good features.

It's very simple - I was away plaing D2 for a while and when I came back to Civ the next expansion was already announced! Additionally I had to "learn" to play Civ again. Maybe I wait for a nice bundle to come out and upgrade then - but only for Warlords I assume is too late now :(

It's very simple - I was away plaing D2 for a while and when I came back to Civ the next expansion was already announced! Additionally I had to "learn" to play Civ again. Maybe I wait for a nice bundle to come out and upgrade then - but only for Warlords I assume is too late now :(I think all the warlords content except the scenarios is included in BTS. So, you are wise to just wait for that.

Hello, i'm new here (:bowdown: and french, so excuse me for the bad quality of my language)

I finished my first game before 1800 AD. I don't know if it's a good date or if i am ridicoulus. I play very quickly and make a lot of mistakes. I'm also sure, it's possible to do better.

Can I submit two or three games or is it better to wait having the better save to submit ?

Hello, i'm new here (:bowdown: and french, so excuse me for the bad quality of my language)

I finished my first game before 1800 AD. I don't know if it's a good date or if i am ridicoulus. I play very quickly and make a lot of mistakes. I'm also sure, it's possible to do better.

Can I submit two or three games or is it better to wait having the better save to submit ?
Greeting! You can submit as many games as you can possibly play. There is no limit. Even if you don't win the gauntlet, you can always go for the stats (http://hof.civfanatics.net/civ4/stats.php)

The same thing goes for G-Minor, not enough civs=>not enough religions=>slow culture win.

Surely at Prince level you can easily found three religions yourself without too much effort?

:hammer2: My first game was refused for a reload. It's not the same rules as tne french games. I think i make a mistake for using an autosave after a stop.

I'm not sure to have understand the rule :dunno: : We can don some pause (after 1,5 hours minimum ?). At this time, i must make a manual save and continue the game after with starting this manual save. Am I right ?

My date was 1772 AD. Do you consider it's a good date ??

I'm not sure to have understand the rule :dunno: : We can don some pause (after 1,5 hours minimum ?). At this time, i must make a manual save and continue the game after with starting this manual save. Am I right ?Yes. :goodjob: You never want to reload a save that is earlier than where you stopped playing.

To paraphrase someone, you can load to resume playing but may not reload to replay any portion of the game. ;)

Yes. :goodjob: You never want to reload a save that is earlier than where you stopped playing.

To paraphrase someone, you can load to resume playing but may not reload to replay any portion of the game. ;)

Ok Thanks for your quickly answer. :hatsoff:

It's very différent between the french rules and your rules. And because of my bad level in english :king: , I haven't understood totaly.

I'll try another game and hope to finish it before the deadline.

Grrr.... AI declared war on me again. How do people manage to avoid war without building a strong military?

Grrr.... AI declared war on me again. How do people manage to avoid war without building a strong military?

By picking "nice" AIs only.

Yes :) Nice peaceful AIs are the ones to go for.

I am generally very weak at this level and always last on the power graph. But my neighbours are always pleased/friendly and as long as I don't make the mistake of expanding into their territory too far with my cultural borders they stay charming all game.

Usual things - trade as much as you can, there's no reason not to trade a lot of techs since it helps you more than them and they reach "pleased" status quite quickly that way. Try to trade at least one resource with each as early as possible. And later in the game you can trade all your happiness resources for health resources or money, because the cultural slider is so high, of course.

Yes :) Nice peaceful AIs are the ones to go for.
Well, I picked Roosevelt, Washington, Elisabeth, Victoria, Fredrick, and Mansa Musa. I thought those were pretty peacful? Got attacked by Victoria.

I am generally very weak at this level and always last on the power graph. But my neighbours are always pleased/friendly and as long as I don't make the mistake of expanding into their territory too far with my cultural borders they stay charming all game.
.
Seems difficult to avoid this if you are going for cultural victory.


Usual things - trade as much as you can, there's no reason not to trade a lot of techs since it helps you more than them and they reach "pleased" status quite quickly that way. Try to trade at least one resource with each as early as possible. And later in the game you can trade all your happiness resources for health resources or money, because the cultural slider is so high, of course.
Traded a lot of techs, but didn't have much resources to trade. Maybe that was my problem?

The major issue seems to be religion which seems to contribute between -2 and -4 on their attitude towards me.

Here is one of my important lists for you:

Asoka
Elizabeth
Frederick
Gandhi
Mansa Musa
Cyrus (the bad guy)
Hatshepsut
Roosevelt
Bismarck
Qin Shi Huang
Washington

In this order from top you should pick them as your opponents. Cyrus is an interesting exception, because you should not even sign open borders with him. He will be the bad guy, who is hated from everybody, but he won't attack you.

In this order from top you should pick them as your opponents. Cyrus is an interesting exception, because you should not even sign open borders with him. He will be the bad guy, who is hated from everybody, but he won't attack you.
Thanks for the tip. But in a recent game I was attacked by Cyrus. Anyway, even if he didn't attack me, what is the point in having him in the game?

Thanks for the tip. But in a recent game I was attacked by Cyrus. Anyway, even if he didn't attack me, what is the point in having him in the game?

To get the AI to hate him and to potentially distract them by Cyrus attacking or one of the AI attacking Cyrus.

Well, I picked Roosevelt, Washington, Elisabeth, Victoria, Fredrick, and Mansa Musa. I thought those were pretty peacful? Got attacked by Victoria.


Victoria seems to always attack Methos and KmadCandy as well...she seems to like me though.

Victoria *always* attacks me. I never pick her anymore, despite her financial trait (and therefore tech trading possibilities). She is just too unpredictable, even when you share a religion.

Well, I picked Roosevelt, Washington, Elisabeth, Victoria, Fredrick, and Mansa Musa. I thought those were pretty peacful? Got attacked by Victoria.

Yeah. See above.

Seems difficult to avoid this if you are going for cultural victory.

Not really. I'm only talking about not deploying artists early. They will wear ordinary game expansion ok. If I bung some of my artists in too early, a friendly civ might suddenly declare war (I've seen Mansa do this, much to my astonishment at the time. Then I realised it was just stupidity on my part).

Traded a lot of techs, but didn't have much resources to trade. Maybe that was my problem?.

For sure, that would not help. Consider whether you might be able to spare something, although it's difficult I know. I seem to end up with resource-poor territories but I often have one resource I can give as a gift early on. Later on, when I have currency or they have a resource, I go back and upgrade it to a more useful trade.

The major issue seems to be religion which seems to contribute between -2 and -4 on their attitude towards me.

This is a big issue. But if you have founded an early religion (and with this civ, polytheism is almost guaranteed) you should find your neighbours on your side because they shouldn't found an early religion. Even if they do, there are ways round it - your tech trading should do the job.

Hope this helps a bit - I'm not used to being near the top of the table :)

My first attempt at this ended in failure. Everyone on my continent hated me due to an early landgrab and once my Sistine Chapel city got captured so I gave up. Everyone on the continent was at war with me. I got Liberalism first though as usual on Prince, with just one Great Scientist for an Academy during Education research. I got 2 or 3 Great Prophets from the Oracle/Double Holy capital which wasn't too handy.

I'm thinking an isolated start would be best, it's easy to grab Polytheism, Monotheism and Theocracy at Prince level I find.

I still wasn't making enough culture per turn though for a win in the last game though, 75000 is a big number.

Anyone got any guidelines on how much culture you should be producing at various points in the game?

I only built the Oracle, Sistine Chapel but may try for some other wonders in my next game. I think the Parthenon might have been useful and some of the religious ones which give bonuses to religious buildings.

Victoria seems to always attack Methos and KmadCandy as well...she seems to like me though.

Yeah, I don't even include her in my games anymore, unless I'm going the warmonger route.

In my first try, i manage to found 4 religions (Budda, Hindu, Confusian, Islam) and acquired 2 religions (Jew, Tao). However, whatever I try, I got a very late game win at 1860 AD. I dont know why, but the fact that I have to setup those religions and build all those catherdals delay my game I think. I had barely any production and had to rely on slavery to build them. The switch to caste system was really late. I have a superb start too, but I just ruin it. :(

If you have 6 religions, I would go for 3 cathedrals per legendary city during the cash buying phase, then add any extras later as bonuses...that way you don't have to wait to spread all 6 religions into 9 cities...that takes too long.

Hope this helps a bit - I'm not used to being near the top of the table :)
Thanks a lot. Finally, it seems like I am able to finish without being attacked by the AI

Good luck! My best date so far is 1676. Didn't play well, but had a great map. That puts me second on the table now ...

What are the chances of ending up on a continent all by yourself? Would that be good or bad for this game?

Good luck! My best date so far is 1676. Didn't play well, but had a great map. That puts me second on the table now ...
And 1843 is only good for 6th place. :) Need to give it another try.

For some reason, I am finding this game harder than the Monarch culture game we did a month or so ago.

For some reason, I am finding this game harder than the Monarch culture game we did a month or so ago.I think you got to pick you civ in that one. Here we are stuck with privileged to play Korea. :evil:

I think you got to pick you civ in that one. Here we are stuck with privileged to play Korea. :evil:

Yes, don't know what I'd do without the half-priced castles (+1:culture:).

Protective Rules!!!

Korea is not so bad. Financial is always useful. I'm just not sure how to play this isolated continent start I have just been handed. No need for any armies for a few thousand years anyway, but it's going to be tough with no trading partners and no idea how the other civs are going.

Korea is not so bad. Financial is always useful. I'm just not sure how to play this isolated continent start I have just been handed. No need for any armies for a few thousand years anyway, but it's going to be tough with no trading partners and no idea how the other civs are going.I have a start like that. It totally threw me off too. Fortunately, I discovered two more civs on what I though was just an island. They eventually scouted what turned out to be a peninsula. But, by then I was totally off track since I had researched techs I would normally trade for. I don't think I am going to continue it. :(

My land is definitely a lost continent. I tried to get clever and hold off Oracle until Alphabet (not sure why) but I missed by 2 turns. I got Pyramids though, so it should be a case of aiming for Great Library and Sistine Chapel, combined with not expanding too quickly - whilst hoping that Huayna and Mansa aren't hiding on the other continent researching Rocketry.

Hi. I am playing Minor 22, not minor21, you can read my “achievements” there. Do you think both minors are comparable?

Both share the financial trait. 21 is protective while 22 is industrious, that could be an advantage for Vanilla. However, 22 starts with Mysticism, while 21 doesn’t, an advantage to Warlords, there is no hope for an early religion in Vanilla if you pick peaceful leaders. This means that Vanilla players have to research DivRi to compensate for the lost religion.
Do these two factors compensate each other?


As I view these two minors:
- Prince AI is not going to help much with research. Maybe we should be gifting them all techs every time? We are going to win much later than in Deity games. Also we won’t be swimming in money from trades.
- There are 2 (3) ways to accumulate raw culture: cottages and artists (and wonders). We are financial and we are not philosophical. That means we should concentrate on cottages and “forget” about specialists. So no farms, but cottages in the big three. So Pyramids and Sistine Chapel are “useless”.

Any thoughts on these ideas?

I think Warlords has the advantage because of the smarter Prince AI. The AI on nearly every difficulty level on Warlords is much better at teching. While I can easily outtech every single AI in nearly any vanilla Prince game, I have a hard time staying at the top technologically in Warlords on Prince.

Re the two games - it's hard to say without actually playing through the vanilla challenge. I agree that probably faster teching outweighs the value of industrious, depending on your approach. I usually build only one wonder - the Parthenon - but last game I risked the Oracle too. A good call, as it didn't generate a single prophet. But the bad call was having Mansa as a teching partner - got too confident & did one trade too many thinking I would still get to Philosophy before he did. He beat me by one turn :(

As I view these two minors:
- Prince AI is not going to help much with research. Maybe we should be gifting them all techs every time? We are going to win much later than in Deity games. Also we won’t be swimming in money from trades.
- There are 2 (3) ways to accumulate raw culture: cottages and artists (and wonders). We are financial and we are not philosophical. That means we should concentrate on cottages and “forget” about specialists. So no farms, but cottages in the big three. So Pyramids and Sistine Chapel are “useless”.

Any thoughts on these ideas?

I just finished a game where I farmed the heck out of my cities. With the mids and Chapel the artists were 6 :culture: + 3 :science: but I produced 12 GA + 1 GE. (1 GA on the last turn was useless). I think the GA from farming need to be considered. I would have finished sooner if I had settled more GA sooner. At 14 :culture: they really rock. As Wan I founded 3 religions and captured 2 more. Left Hindu and Islam to the AI.
(I snuck into second place with it at 1676) better GA management and less warmongering would made it sooner. Didn't go to 100% culture until very late. Hatty + Asoka were a little threatening so I teched a little more than I should.

I usually build only one wonder - the Parthenon - but last game I risked the Oracle too. A good call, as it didn't generate a single prophet.

I usually build two Parthenon and Sistene Chapel. I risked Pyramids on my attempt and got 3 GEs :mad:. Won in 1782AD but with the extra GEs and many other mistakes could improve somewhat.

I'm having a shocker on this game. It should be easy on Prince but I'm not applying the right tactics. From the above comments, I am making far too many wonders (Stonehenge, Oracle, Pyramids, Great Library, Parthenon, and Sistine). I figured that they would all be useful, but you're saying they're not.

Ya, in my first game (fourth place currently, don't remember the date as it was awful), I only built Parthenon. I think Pyramids would have helped my time, but beyond that I cannot think of a wonder that would have helped.

I think the Pyramids is a must for the civics. After Liberalism you can shut down science and cash rush the cathedrals. I built Parthenon and Sistine Chapel as well because I had a ton of food and ran a lot of artists after I finished teching to Liberalism. Build Sistine & Parthenon if you are running artists, don't build it if you run cottages. Leave the wonders to the AI, it slows them down.
I also built the Spiral Minaret in a non culture city so that I could continue teching slowly after I shut down the science slider. Took about 35 turns for Chemistry. I farmed over my cottages after Liberalism and ran about 7 or 8 artists in three cities.

Yes, isn't Pyramids essential for being able to go into the "cash-buy" phase of cathedral building without having to research all the way to get universal suffrage?

I'm having a shocker on this game. It should be easy on Prince but I'm not applying the right tactics. From the above comments, I am making far too many wonders (Stonehenge, Oracle, Pyramids, Great Library, Parthenon, and Sistine). I figured that they would all be useful, but you're saying they're not.

I can understand the marginal utility of every WW mentioned, but GLib. GLib doesn’t help your research much (6bpt, 12 if running Repr) and it contamines your GP pool. You don’t want scientist so late in the game. The main use of GLib is to add 8GPPpt and 3 sources of scientists, so you don’t want it this game.


I got Liberalism first though as usual on Prince, with just one Great Scientist for an Academy during Education research.

If you were so close to finishing researching, maybe it would have been better to lightbulb the rest of Education (or Philo if you didn't already had it).



I just finished a game where I farmed the heck out of my cities.

Nice to see someone disagreeing.:goodjob:
I still think you would get a better result if you cottaged all over. If we were Philo and not Financial, I would be playing the same strategy as you, aiming for 20 GA, cottaging only the capital.


Yes, isn't Pyramids essential for being able to go into the "cash-buy" phase of cathedral building without having to research all the way to get universal suffrage?

I am not playing a cash-buy phase. I look at it this way: artist are not the way to go. Cottage all over, work the mines. Pacifism is half useful as I am running so few artist, run OR instead, saving the hammers of the monasteries and adding a 25% production. Caste System is devaluated. Run slavery instead, helping production further. With the hammers I save from not building the Pyramids, I build settlers (or Axes convertible to cities) for a quicker expansion.
Of course I could be very wrong. We will see. I would be glad if erikthecelt decided to try this strategy once. He would play with the same level of expertise as the farm-the-heck game he mentioned, so the results would be really comparable.

How the heck do you build all those cathedrals in time without a cash buy phase? Everyone else seems to play a much easier version of the game than me!

How the heck do you build all those cathedrals in time without a cash buy phase? Everyone else seems to play a much easier version of the game than me!

I have tried to explain before. I play a hammer oriented game. I run slavery and OR most of the time.


Why aren't you getting better results? I don't know, I haven't seen your games. If you posted a couple of screenshots of one of your games I am sure you would receive a lot of feedback. People are really nice in this forum.

I will dare to mention two possibilities, but I could be quite off the mark:
- Lack of focus. For example, you seem to pursue all WW just for the sake of it.
- There could be a fundamental mistake in the basics of your game. Maybe it is city placement. Maybe you build too much infrastructure in your cities. Or too little. Maybe your techpath is erratic. Maybe you whip too much ot too little. Maybe you build the wrong improvements. Maybe you build too many or too few cities...

The other problem with GA strategy is that this is not Quick speed. GA's are more powerful on Quick. Hammer/cottage is the way to go. I also skip rush buying. It takes too many turns to generate cash. Once you have a few cathedrals up you want to run 100% culture slider.

Is there any way to increase the odds of attracting a religion? (short of capturing a city)
I have a nice game going, founded 5 religions. However, everyone else on the continent has Buddhism as their state religion (the one I didn't found).

Is there any way to increase the odds of attracting a religion? (short of capturing a city)
I have a nice game going, founded 5 religions. However, everyone else on the continent has Buddhism as their state religion (the one I didn't found).

You could try building a city close and don't connect it to your road/river trade route system. Connect it to one of the other civ's and check the trade routes. Eventually it could attract a religion.
Conquest is much easier ;)

Nice to see someone disagreeing.:goodjob:
I still think you would get a better result if you cottaged all over. If we were Philo and not Financial, I would be playing the same strategy as you, aiming for 20 GA, cottaging only the capital.


I'll put the major on hold and give it a try. (I usually only get time for one game a week so I might not make it). I'll report in as I go. It was a sweat map though, 9 AI on one continent and Catherine all alone on an island.

This was the first time I used the spreadsheet once I hit culture build phase so it was handy juggling builds at the end.

Do you build troops in your other cities or just pile up gold to buy techs from the AI in the culture phase?

I have been using (god help me!:cry: ) a warrior rush. I can usually take two capitals before archers appear.

My best date has been 1607.:)
And since I'm out of town in three hours, it will be my best try.

I have been using (god help me!:cry: ) a warrior rush. I can usually take two capitals before archers appear.

My best date has been 1607.:)
And since I'm out of town in three hours, it will be my best try.
This is my tactic as well! They usually only have 2 warriors in the capital until very late, and they dont produce workers fast enough for merely stealing. I figure it is the most cost beneficial way to go.

My 11th attempt at this looks like being successful, but unlikely to be a date much earlier than 1900AD, which would make it worse than my Monarch culture game.

Still doing something wrong in the early game because whilst I won the race to Liberalism, this did not happen until 1250AD, whereas you guys are talking about reaching this mark over 700 years earlier.

Currently, I'm playing a pretty good game, for me at least.

I picked Frederick, Bismark, Elizabeth, Churchill, Washington, and Roosevelt for my opponents...peaceful, but no mysticism start for them.

I was able to grab Buddhism, Hinduism, and Judaism. I lost out on Christianity by 2 turns when Bismark popped a GP, and Taoism by 2 turns when Roosevelt popped a GS. I also lost out on Confuscianism by 5 turns(I went for IW first to clear jungles)

However, I've peacefully settled 6 cities, grabbed Confuscianism by religion spread, and all my neighbors are friendly with me. I could probably go diplomacy from here and get a pretty good date. Instead I'll try for a decent culture date as per the minor setup. I got Pyramids, but on reflection, it was a mistake because I've not used any specialists(representation) and I've decided to tech to democracy anyway for Emancipation. I got my initial cottages up very quickly, but was slow at clearing all the jungles, thus need Emancipation to provide faster towns and faster hammers.

Once I get there, I'll be good, and should finish in the 1700s. I'm making a profit at 90% science and have 4 cities producing more than 70 beakers per turn. Once I get my cathedrals going I should have a possible 4 legendary cities...I'll probably go with the more highly cottaged city over the Jewish holy city though.

Final thought is that I got Liberalism in about 1125AD, grabbed Nationalism with it, and only then did I research Drama...is that too late? I'm currently researching Constitution, then will research Democracy and shut off research for a cash-rushing phase...I've got a horrible area for hammers. My top city has 9 hammers at size 15.

I got Liberalism in about 1125AD

Hallelujah. At least somebody else has the same Civ IV as me where Liberalism arrives around the 12th century rather than in prehistoric times.

Hallelujah. At least somebody else has the same Civ IV as me where Liberalism arrives around the 12th century rather than in prehistoric times.

You weren't the only one. I too usually got Liberalism after 1000AD. For example, on the previous Major #12, I got Liberalism around 1280 AD (http://hof.civfanatics.net/civ4/game_info.php?show=playerlog&entryID=7914).

For example, on the previous Major #12, I got Liberalism around 1280 AD.

Ahem. Yes, but it looks like you used Liberalism to pop Computers! I use Liberalism to pop Nationalism or Printing Press.

Plus, you had somehow taken over 3 civilisations by turn 32! And 4 by turn 50!

In my game, I am lucky to have a worker, a warrior, a settler, and maybe half a barrack by turn 50.

The gulf between your game and my game is titanic.

I'll put the major on hold and give it a try. (I usually only get time for one game a week so I might not make it).

Thank you, I appreciate it.
Same here, 12 hours is my usual time for a culture game on Quick, a week.

Do you build troops in your other cities or just pile up gold to buy techs from the AI in the culture phase?

In my only submitted game so far I started building units when Musa closed borders. If he hadn't, I wouldn't have built any troops in the AD years. When auxiliary cities have finished their work (1 temple of each religion and a theatre) they use 2 pop as artists (if there is a hope for a GA in that city) and production is converted into gold. I use that gold to pay me a 100% culture slider instead of a 90%. In the culture phase I don't need more techs. Well, I appreciate when AI are fast enough to discover Economics before the game ends, but my tech advantage Liberalism+Nationalism is usually enough to trade that far.


The other problem with GA strategy is that this is not Quick speed. GA's are more powerful on Quick. Hammer/cottage is the way to go. I also skip rush buying. It takes too many turns to generate cash. Once you have a few cathedrals up you want to run 100% culture slider.

It's nice to see you agreeing.

Just a little detail, you say GA's are more powerful on Quick, I am not sure I understand why. On Quick you need 25000 instead of the expected 33333. But that difference affects culture-built-through-commerce as much as GAs, so when comparing GAs to cottages it shouldn't be a factor, or should it?

Finally managed to finish one at 1898 AD. I wonder if I should bother trying to beat that score?

I just looked at your Major-12, Moonsinger...how in the world do you get such a fast tech pace? Is it Specialist based or Cottage based? How do you handle such a fast expansion?

Also something I don't understand, how do you take out an enemy capital so fast? I can never get a 3:2 ratio of Quechua's to an enemy capital in time to take it out before turn 35, much less take out 3 by turn 32!

I share Thrallia's astonishment and wait with anticipation for enlightenment.

I just pulled off a 1762 finish. Admittedly I had a nice map, but I went with the pure cottage route, I don't think I built a single farm. I still ended up with 9 GAs by the time the dust settled, so I don't think the farming is really necessary. I also built the great pyramids and used a cash buying phase to acquire everything I needed. I think though that only founding/conquering 6 cities and waiting to culture flip the other 3 was a mistake, and I could have gotten a much better score if I had 9 cities earlier in the game.

Just a little detail, you say GA's are more powerful on Quick, I am not sure I understand why. On Quick you need 25000 instead of the expected 33333. But that difference affects culture-built-through-commerce as much as GAs, so when comparing GAs to cottages it shouldn't be a factor, or should it?

The difference is GA's on quick give 2680. You can have one of your culture cities be a GA farm, build very little there-- certainly no cathedrals, and still go legendary with only 8 GA's (instead of 11). A side effect is you only need 6 cities instead of 9.

Victoria seems to always attack Methos and KmadCandy as well...she seems to like me though.

seriously! one of these days i'm going to play a game vs. 6 Victorias, and slaughter them all. :ar15: :nuke: it won't be eligible for HoF of course but it will be quite fun!

on the other hand, i read about people hating alex as a (random) neighbor a lot on the non-HoF boards. i like him and have never once had a problem with him. i'm not sure why but i'm not going to complain :).

good luck with this gauntlet folks! i don't think i'll have time to try it, but i may try it after the fact just for fun.

Finally managed to finish one at 1898 AD. I wonder if I should bother trying to beat that score?

My best date so far for this Gauntlet is 1782AD. I usually don't submit games that isn't on the top 10 list, but since I share your pains, I will submit this one for you to see. If you like, you can download my 1780 AD save, click end turn to see the replay. I found six religions very early, captured two AIs capital with warriors rush, and yet ended up with 1782AD. The only way to get better is to try again.

I just looked at your Major-12, Moonsinger...how in the world do you get such a fast tech pace? Is it Specialist based or Cottage based? How do you handle such a fast expansion?

And I thought it was a bad game (for the record, there were at least 4 other people did it much faster than me). I didn't build enough cottages and my research wasn't fast enough. I used mostly specialists for that game. If I'm going to play another one for space race, I will put cottage on every rocks, plains, and hills. Cottage spam is the secret for fast tech pace. I have learned this a little too late, but better late than never.

Also something I don't understand, how do you take out an enemy capital so fast? I can never get a 3:2 ratio of Quechua's to an enemy capital in time to take it out before turn 35, much less take out 3 by turn 32!
You don't need a 3:2 ratio of Quechua. Before 2000BC, you just need 1 Quechua per enemy. I don't understand why you guys couldn't lure their archers out, it works for me most of the time. You can play it safe by killing the archers outside the city to gain promotion before taking on their capital or you can just take your 28% or 18% chance against their capital (if you fail, start a new game because this is what I did).

I usually don't submit games that isn't on the top 10 list, but since I share your pains, I will submit this one for you to see.

Hey thanks, Moonsinger!

Yes, it's not that easy. I just lost another one. Have to abandon game at 185AD because the situation is hopeless; so, there is really no point to continue on.

When you say "hopeless", do you mean "It would be really hard to get a cultural victory from here" or do you mean "I could never get a superfast cultural victory from here"?

When you say "hopeless", do you mean "It would be really hard to get a cultural victory from here" or do you mean "I could never get a superfast cultural victory from here"?

Well, my only Marble city is about to be destroyed by Vicky on the next turn. I have already lost the Philosophy race and I have only 1 religion at this point. According to my estimate, I think I may be able to get a cultural victory on this game around 2000AD.

Wouldn't the AI on the other continent have launched their spaceship by then?

I think though that only founding/conquering 6 cities and waiting to culture flip the other 3 was a mistake, and I could have gotten a much better score if I had 9 cities earlier in the game.

The exact same happened for me. But at least for you it sounds like it was intended, for me I just plain screwed up and expanded so slowly that the AIs stole three of my slots. I actually had to hunt for a workable sixth city spot. Hopefully I have time to play another game.

The exact same happened for me. But at least for you it sounds like it was intended, for me I just plain screwed up and expanded so slowly that the AIs stole three of my slots. I actually had to hunt for a workable sixth city spot. Hopefully I have time to play another game.

Marginal intention I suppose. I've noticed that I usually flip two or three cities during these culture games. So when I saw Caesar settle three cities right on the borders of my cultural boundries of two of the cities I was planning on taking legendary, I assumed that I'd flip those. I did, but it took too long. I utilized a warrior rush and hit some great luck, I waited to make 6 warriors and when I sent then to Elizabeth there was only one warrior in London. I assume that two others were off with her first settler, but she never got the chance to use it :D . I think with a quicker settlement of 9 cities and a faster development of cottages is key. If I had three extra cottage spammed cities by the time I moved to the cash-rush of the cathedrals I think I could have shaved 50 years or maybe more off my finish date. I may try a game with emancipation rather than caste system and forego GAs almost entirely to see if the financial trait can outweigh the GAs. Dubious though since then I'd have to tech all the way to Democracy, but it would allow me to forego building the great pyramids. I may get to another game tonight, so I'll let you know.

Wouldn't the AI on the other continent have launched their spaceship by then?
Exactly why I said it was "hopeless".

Hm...this game started out with great promise, but ended with what appears to be a mediocre 1855AD finish date.

I built 8 cities, flipped 2 after finishing my cash-buying phase. Founded 6 religions, built only 3 cathedrals per legendary city though. It helped not having to spread more than 3 religions into most of my cities, 4 religions into 3 of my cities.

On the other hand, the main reason I ended so late is probably because my game had 3 continents...and I was on the smallest one, alone with Washington. Since I had barbs off, and since he wouldn't have tech traded with me anyway, I declared war on him around 3000BC and stayed at war with him until 1500AD. That allowed me to settle the rest of my continent at my own pace.

I initially had the fastest tech pace I can remember having, since I manually researched and founded Confuscianism, Christianity, and Taoism by 250BC. However, that's when the lack of tech trading appears to have caught up to me, because it took me until the 1500s to research Democracy and didnt finish my cash buying phase until the mid 1600s. I popped 5 GAs, and founded them 0-3-2 in Seoul-P'yongyang-Wonsan

The only wonders I built were Sistine Chapel and Taj Mahal. I lost the race to Liberalism because I underestimated one of the AIs and traded him Education when I was 8 turns from Liberalism.

Oh, weirdness with the AI...Roosevelt sailed out to meet me in the late 800s AD, I didn't meet anyone else for 350 years. I knew where everyone was because I had traded maps with Roosevelt and he had already met everyone and traded maps with everyone else. I met Churchill when my borders popped and I traded for Optics(oh, I traded for Sailing in the 900s AD lol), Frederick came by on a caravel about 200 years later, Elizabeth came by 200 years after that, and I had to go to Bismark in order to meet him, in the mid 1700s.
Despite that, I ended the game #3 in tech, after having not researched anything for 300 years.

Luck was on my side throughout this game, but eventually I mess it up and end up with a mediocre victory date :(

Starting position had a wheat and flood plains, which is pretty good for me. I got the first 2 religions easily by beeline meditation and polythesim. Then luck came to me. I pop many huts and got 4 tech!!!:lol: So then I beeline to monothesim and got another religion. Yay!!

Then I set to build the oracle and try the CS gambit. About 5 turns to Code of Laws, Washington found the religion. O well, instead of getting CS, I reason with myself to get philosohy, because no AI has gotten a GS yet. When I build my pyramid, the oracle gave me a GP and I lightbulb theology. So far so good, with 5 religions. :lol:

Pyramid built, acquired GA from Music, and later beeline Divine Right. Once research after printing press, switch to universal suffrage and start to build up my culture. Then I lose the steam. I mistakenly set my cuture cities to build missionaries, instead of building those temples and cathedrals. So, it took me about 100 turns to set up those religions, build those temples and cathedrals. By the end, I flip a English city with Confusianism, and I now have all 7 religions, each of my cultural city produce about 1000 culture per turn.

But it was too late. I already lost the time. I eventually cultual win at 1782 AD.

I eventually cultual win at 1782 AD.
Congrats! I think that would give you third place.

Congrats! I think that would give you third place.

Not quite. My 1738 is 5th place currently.

I can understand the marginal utility of every WW mentioned, but GLib. GLib doesn’t help your research much (6bpt, 12 if running Repr) and it contamines your GP pool. You don’t want scientist so late in the game. The main use of GLib is to add 8GPPpt and 3 sources of scientists, so you don’t want it this game.




If you were so close to finishing researching, maybe it would have been better to lightbulb the rest of Education (or Philo if you didn't already had it).





Nice to see someone disagreeing.:goodjob:
I still think you would get a better result if you cottaged all over. If we were Philo and not Financial, I would be playing the same strategy as you, aiming for 20 GA, cottaging only the capital.




I am not playing a cash-buy phase. I look at it this way: artist are not the way to go. Cottage all over, work the mines. Pacifism is half useful as I am running so few artist, run OR instead, saving the hammers of the monasteries and adding a 25% production. Caste System is devaluated. Run slavery instead, helping production further. With the hammers I save from not building the Pyramids, I build settlers (or Axes convertible to cities) for a quicker expansion.
Of course I could be very wrong. We will see. I would be glad if erikthecelt decided to try this strategy once. He would play with the same level of expertise as the farm-the-heck game he mentioned, so the results would be really comparable.
I find all of your posts quite informative Jesus, particularly the specific ones where I can match my pace against. I think you devalue artists and the wonders however. I pollute my GP pool intentionally since you can use each GP for some helpful purpose, particularly scientists for Philo, Edu, and Printing Press. Even priests can be converted to culture and are useful for obtaining Theology. The artists are better than a fully grown cottage in terms of culture. So I think a hybrid approach is best (it almost always is I believe for whatever victory condition) as you can turn up the culture slider in the 250-500 AD range and still research what you need.

A question though- settled artists I have calculated are best before 830 AD if you plan on finishing around 1600. Is this calculation correct or should it be later? I base this on having only 2 cathedrals to multiply its effect for the last turns so the payback is 6000/42=143 turns. I am now thinking to push this date back to past 1000 AD and count on 3 cathedrals.

I am trying the pure cottage/ no wonder approach on a game now and so far, it feels slower to the mixed approach. I think one of the reasons this game is slower though is the lack of tech partners. I was faster to Liberalism and I think I had a better tech level. I'll have to see if I can come up with a big finish with the cottages. I put a few on top of dye and spices for a little boost as I don't need the happies.

@Killer - very impressive, that's the new #1

I find all of your posts quite informative Jesus, particularly the specific ones where I can match my pace against. I think you devalue artists and the wonders however. I pollute my GP pool intentionally since you can use each GP for some helpful purpose, particularly scientists for Philo, Edu, and Printing Press. Even priests can be converted to culture and are useful for obtaining Theology. The artists are better than a fully grown cottage in terms of culture. So I think a hybrid approach is best (it almost always is I believe for whatever victory condition) as you can turn up the culture slider in the 250-500 AD range and still research what you need.

A question though- settled artists I have calculated are best before 830 AD if you plan on finishing around 1600. Is this calculation correct or should it be later? I base this on having only 2 cathedrals to multiply its effect for the last turns so the payback is 6000/42=143 turns. I am now thinking to push this date back to past 1000 AD and count on 3 cathedrals.

Thank you. I was a bit afraid I was talking too much and I was monopolizing the thread. If only my posts for other victory conditions could reach the rank of "informative" instead of "rambling"!

I basically agree with all you've said here. 1 single early GP is at least useful for lightbulbing Theo. But I prefer a GS to lighbulb Philo, it gives you 50% more beakers. A GM is almost useless, it is worth nothing compared to a GA. A GE too, there is no such an important WW as to renounce to a GA on Prince level. Early GS are useful. Late GS are not. GAs is what you want.

Early GS: you can make an Academy or lightbulb Educ/Philo. In one of my Deity cultural attempts I emphasized research. So I used 4 GS for all that. It was a bit of overdoing things, though, 3 lightbulbs leaves too little time for Academy to be efficient. I had ended researching in the BC (I chose PP instead of Nationalism and traded for it). I thought it would be a great game. It wasn’t. It took me to 800-1000AD to have a couple of Cathedrals in every city. Going 100% culture without Cathedrals and without mature cottages is not so efficient.
Anyway, my point is you don’t want GLib, the subsequent GS would be too late, and you prefer to put your hammers into missionaries/temples anyway.

Hybrid approach: yes, of course, in both my games I set up my GPFarm in the BC. It is a very restricted GPfarm though, maximum 5 artists.

<<you can turn up the culture slider in the 250-500 AD range and still research what you need.>> Mmmmm, I don’t know. Sounds a bit inefficient. If you have things left to research, just research them with 100% science. While you do that, you build a couple of cathedrals more. Then, when you are done with research, you go 100% culture and it is more efficient now because you have had the time to build more cathedrals.
Oh, or where you talking about Representation beakers?

Settled artists calculation: I imagine you are doing the maths right, but I think the way it is explained could lead to mistakes. 6000/42=143 is ok if you have 2 cathedrals the whole 143 turns, not just at the end. I think what you are doing is having 0 cathedrals in the first turn and 4 in the 143th turn, so roughly as a mean you have had 2 the whole time. If you want more accuracy you need to plan ahead the dates your cathedrals will be produced in that city and add up the expected culture output turn by turn. No shortcuts.

By the way, I had forgotten about settling artists! I am so spoiled by Deity Quick! On Quick you almost never want to settle a GA.


As for your game, congratulations, those cities are really nice! I am sorry I can’t open your save, I don’t have Warlords. Looking at the pictures my ideas are:
- Nice cities, I wish they were mine!
- I would never pollute my GP pool that way. But you have already explained you did it on purpose. I can’t agree with you on that point though. Please tell us, how many GPeople did you pop, how many were GA, how many of the GS were early ones?
- (Assuming the NE is in the capital): It seems a pity not to have farmed those cottages in your GPFarm. But I think I would have done the same, your GPFarm happens to be your capital, so in the BC you preferred to have cottages for research. And once they were so developed, it would have been too late to replace them with farms for maybe a single additional GA.


Hey, killercane, you see what you’ve done! You encouraged me and now I can’t stop talking! I really enjoy discussing about cultural games, does it show?

I basically agree with all you've said here. 1 single early GP is at least useful for lightbulbing Theo. But I prefer a GS to lighbulb Philo, it gives you 50% more beakers. A GM is almost useless, it is worth nothing compared to a GA. A GE too, there is no such an important WW as to renounce to a GA on Prince level. Early GS are useful. Late GS are not. GAs is what you want.
I agree somewhat. Getting a random non artist GP late is not good, but chances should be low in the National Epic city where you are popping them out. A GM, which I didnt get here but did in previous games, allows you to jack up the culture to 100% rather than 60% I used mostly here, so there is definite use for that. An engineer can save you 25 turns building something like Sistines/Taj which means it will culture double earlier and allow you to balance out the third culture city (I figure that is 50-60 turns of an extra 10 culture per turn multiplied) which pales in comparison to an artist but still mitigates the damage and allows you to use the wonder effects of building Pyr/HG. Late GS can be used to bulb PP, which is again not optimal but does add some culture so it mitigates the damage again. A lot of the random wonders just increase your GP pool to get probably 1 or 2 more GPs in the endgame which should be artists if you play the percentages.
Mmmmm, I don’t know. Sounds a bit inefficient. If you have things left to research, just research them with 100% science. While you do that, you build a couple of cathedrals more. Then, when you are done with research, you go 100% culture and it is more efficient now because you have had the time to build more cathedrals.
Oh, or where you talking about Representation beakers?
From 250 AD-1300 AD yanking up the culture slider should give a low average of 100 cpt for each city which is 13,500 additional culture per city, probably more. This is with Representation so research is about the same research really except I can support more cities and still get culture. It also allows you to plan out the GP a bit better. There is probably some more of my fuzzy math there but you see where Im going.

This game was certainly not efficient or optimal. I was just trying some new ideas, like:

1) Research straight to alphabet, skipping Buddhism. Kind of worked. Really need better early research from a gold or gems tile though. Without worker techs I didnt have much to do but prechop forests and build more workers.
2) Use Oracle for CoL rather than something expensive. This is a good technique I believe. Early Oracle/Stonehenge are cheap but fantastic in terms of culture per hammer; they are like 2 extra mature cottages apiece in the endgame. You can expand a bit better with CoL. I had money problems so I used an early scientist for math of all things, which probably should have been an academy.
3) Rebuff all demands. Definitely didnt work as I didnt give Prince AI enough credit and they took a 3 gems city away from me. I had to build 2 axes from Berlin and some more elsewhere to take it back and take another city from them.
4) The culture slider. I dunno if this was useful or not. I at times had it on strange settings like 20 science, 30 culture. I dont think this really worked, it should have been one or the other but I needed the happiness.

I think next time I will try to take a 3rd AI capital with a warrior rush, and build settlers/workers and the engineer wonders there rather than in the culture cities/GA farms.
I really enjoy discussing about cultural games, does it show?
Indeed! I didnt even think I would play this gauntlet but it has proven interesting.

I think next time I will try to take a 3rd AI capital with a warrior rush, and build settlers/workers and the engineer wonders there rather than in the culture cities/GA farms.

Indeed! I didnt even think I would play this gauntlet but it has proven interesting.


I also tried a warrior rush in some of my earlier attemps, but they all fail, because the ai either has pop 1 (then the city would be razed) or they have at least 2 warriors at their capitals. Also, does early war pay off, I mean you have to spend resources to build warriors, explore and dont know when you will get your workers to build improvements. In addition, you will have a higher city maintenance unless the ai starts close by.

<<you can turn up the culture slider in the 250-500 AD range and still research what you need.>> Mmmmm, I don’t know. Sounds a bit inefficient. If you have things left to research, just research them with 100% science. While you do that, you build a couple of cathedrals more. Then, when you are done with research, you go 100% culture and it is more efficient now because you have had the time to build more cathedrals.
Oh, or where you talking about Representation beakers?


In some circumstances I could see it being helpful. For example, in my last game, I had happiness problems in my 3 legendary cities, meaning I couldn't work (and grow) some of my cottages. If I had run let's say a 10-20% culture slider, I could have developed those cottages a lot earlier.

By the way Jesusin, what is your normal tech path? Mine is getting thrown off because of how slow the AI tech. At the higher levels, I can usually trade for drama, metal casting and machinery, but here I usually can't.

I have always preferred the non-war route in these culture games as I can never seem to fit in building armies as well as all the buildings you need for culturising. I usually accede to any and all demands from the AI.

I have always preferred the non-war route in these culture games as I can never seem to fit in building armies as well as all the buildings you need for culturising. I usually accede to any and all demands from the AI.

Same. I will worker steal if the opportunity arises, but nothing more.

I also tried a warrior rush in some of my earlier attemps, but they all fail, because the ai either has pop 1 (then the city would be razed) or they have at least 2 warriors at their capitals. Also, does early war pay off, I mean you have to spend resources to build warriors, explore and dont know when you will get your workers to build improvements. In addition, you will have a higher city maintenance unless the ai starts close by.
They should have only 1 warrior before ~3300 BC if they are working a 3 food tile, which is what you want since that means the city has at least some food. I send 3 warriors vs. 1 defender, and 5 vs. 2 defenders. Sometimes they just bounce off but you can try again!

In some circumstances I could see it being helpful. For example, in my last game, I had happiness problems in my 3 legendary cities, meaning I couldn't work (and grow) some of my cottages. If I had run let's say a 10-20% culture slider, I could have developed those cottages a lot earlier.

By the way Jesusin, what is your normal tech path? Mine is getting thrown off because of how slow the AI tech. At the higher levels, I can usually trade for drama, metal casting and machinery, but here I usually can't.

Yes, lack of happiness shouldn't stop you, use the slider or build warriors in HR.

I hate this useless Prince AI. Maths in 300AD! I had to research it myself! 3 fast-techers couldn't research Maths in the BC! I end researching at 500AD, with Music+Liberalism+Nationalism.

I think a small investement in units at the beggining of the game would pay off. It would fit nicely in a "hammers strategy". I have played peacefuly, though :sad: .

Ive now figured out that it is best to slave cathedrals, moreso if you are working hill hammer tiles. The problem is finding a map with enough food to do it real early.

I will try to map out my strategy for what its worth (I got 1547 the second time using more cottages per Jesusin's suggestion and earlier cathedrals with the slaving technique, I think the first one was 200 BC).

1) Warrior rush and take 2 capitals. Simple enough. It is cheesy, but it saves time and is hammer efficient.
2) Build 2 workers per culture city, and have 2 working elsewhere early (by 1000 BC if you can manage it). This is very important to get the hammers chopped out in good time after you have connected marble/stone. Early hammers are worth exponentially more than late hammers.
3) Build Oracle/Stonehenge early in one of the AI capitals, maybe Pyramids and Parthenon somewhere else. Build Great Library and National Epic in the same city, you need scientists as well as artists; perhaps you can do it in the city with Parthenon. Balance out the wonders.
4) Research Poly->Mono->Alphabet, fitting in Bronze working somewhere along the line. Skip Buddhism and hope a neighbor founds it.
5) Head to Drama and Music. Theatres have good culture per hammer value, and you can settle the Music artist.
6) Add any artists you get to the poorest hammer city, which is usually the low culture spot.
7) Expand via sword or settling to 9 cities and spam missionaries, preferably from non culture cities. Slave cathedrals, and keep growing in the size 6-10 range while working as many cottages as possible.
8) Keep the AI happy and win.

I also tried a warrior rush in some of my earlier attemps, but they all fail, because the ai either has pop 1 (then the city would be razed)

Solution: Turn on "No City Razing"

Build Great Library and National Epic in the same city, you need scientists as well as artists;
GLIB?! You are a lost case, man! :lol:
Just kidding. Congratulations, your result here has blown away mine in minor22.:goodjob:

...and spam missionaries, preferably from non culture cities.
I don't seem to be able to spam missionaries from auxiliary cities. By 1AD (missionary spamming time) I only have 6 cities: 3 legendary+GPfarm+2 too new cities that are still working on their granary and have no religion. So in my games, at least half of the spamming is done from the good cities.

For a warrior rush strategy are you guys using the max number of AIs on the map?

After reading the warrior rush advice I thought I'd try it out... got this start...

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=5651536&postcount=2666

By the time I get 3 warriors to an AI capital they have 20% cultural defense (about to turn 40%), a warrior and an archer. The warriors attack against an archer is <0.1%. It aint working for me this warrior rush thing.

For a warrior rush strategy are you guys using the max number of AIs on the map?

After reading the warrior rush advice I thought I'd try it out... got this start...

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=5651536&postcount=2666

ROFLMAO

Needs a plains hill and somewhere to go.

By the time I get 3 warriors to an AI capital they have 20% cultural defense (about to turn 40%), a warrior and an archer. The warriors attack against an archer is <0.1%. It aint working for me this warrior rush thing.
Pick better maps to play. One look at that start would have been enough to regenerate a new one. Settle on a plains hill and change your citizen to working the highest hammer tile available. Find an AI within 10 squares of your capital and move in when you have 6 warriors.

Obviously I didn't try a warrior rush with that map! That's why I asked about whether people are playing with max number of AIs (9 or 10 I think).

I'm only playing for fun though so I just go with the map I am given. Except that one. 6 warriors still takes time to build at epic speed. I've been unlucky with warriors getting killed by animals too which doesn't help much for CR promos. Even so, warrior vs archer is not good odds.

I hate this useless Prince AI. Maths in 300AD! I had to research it myself! 3 fast-techers couldn't research Maths in the BC! I end researching at 500AD, with Music+Liberalism+Nationalism.


I would assume your talking about vanilla? Maths is a pre-requisite for CS in warlords.

:cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry:

:wallbash: :wallbash: :wallbash: :wallbash:


Okay, I think I am OK now......Tried my very first HOF game and second cullture game ever and was doing OK. It was 1756 and each of my culture cities have 6 religions and making 600ish to 350ish cpt at 80% culture. Had a DP with Augustus and thing were looking good I thought when Mahmed DoWed and landed Cavs, Rifles and misc units two tiles from Capitol which was being protected by my third warrior. My army of about 35 units was in the other side of the empire defending a jungle tile where I left them after taking out Napolian. Capital's culture went from 350ish to 150ish in 4 turns. I exited to desk top. I do not think I can start a new game and complete it in time with my computer.

Why? Why? Why? I know I used a few crazies as opponents but that is because I want someone to DOW on me to get cities. And it worked, I had 11 cities when I stopped and I only built 4.

May be I can start a new game....:crazyeye: :mischief:
May be I can lock my self in the computer room and ignore my family and work...:D

No. NO. I am not a civ fanatic. well may be a just a little.;) or getting there.:)

I would assume your talking about vanilla? Maths is a pre-requisite for CS in warlords.

Yes, I am playing only vanilla, minor22. Sorry if I confused things writing in both threads.

Pick better maps to play. One look at that start would have been enough to regenerate a new one. Settle on a plains hill and change your citizen to working the highest hammer tile available. Find an AI within 10 squares of your capital and move in when you have 6 warriors.

I use just three warriors for the first city and four for the second. Usually there's only one warrior guarding the city and only one cultural expansion. You can declare war and move beside the city to attack. It works best before BW is discovered. The AI can't pop a second warrior and they will not build one, they are focused on growing the city. If you can't beat the first warrior with 3 then regenerate and repeat. Four for the second usually works because you get a CR1 from the first city.

Of course I could be very wrong. We will see. I would be glad if erikthecelt decided to try this strategy once. He would play with the same level of expertise as the farm-the-heck game he mentioned, so the results would be really comparable.

Ok, I tried 5/6 runs at this with a pure CE strategy and no wonders. I came out about 500 years slower for Liberalism even when I took two capitals very early with warriors. The big difference in tech speed for me was the length of time it took the cottages to grow up to 6 :commerce: and even then it doesn't include the GP points from running specialists. I cottaged all the :commerce: bonus squares but still couldn't seem to get the tech up to speed while growing the empire. I'm not a first rank player so there's probably lots of ways to improve the game, but the Wonder/GP strategy seems to suit my game a lot better than the CE.

I use just three warriors for the first city and four for the second. Usually there's only one warrior guarding the city and only one cultural expansion. You can declare war and move beside the city to attack. It works best before BW is discovered. The AI can't pop a second warrior and they will not build one, they are focused on growing the city. If you can't beat the first warrior with 3 then regenerate and repeat. Four for the second usually works because you get a CR1 from the first city.
Sure 3 and 4 work well, but if you are having trouble taking even one capital, surely 6 will do the trick!

I thought they start with an archer on Prince. They always seem to have 1 archer and 1 warrior anyway when I get there.

They do start with 2 warriors.

For a warrior rush strategy are you guys using the max number of AIs on the map?

After reading the warrior rush advice I thought I'd try it out... got this start...

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=5651536&postcount=2666

:lol: Good luck with that one!

Sure 3 and 4 work well, but if you are having trouble taking even one capital, surely 6 will do the trick!

One man's rush is another man's dawdle :D

Ok, I tried 5/6 runs at this with a pure CE strategy and no wonders. I came out about 500 years slower for Liberalism even when I took two capitals very early with warriors. The big difference in tech speed for me was the length of time it took the cottages to grow up to 6 :commerce: and even then it doesn't include the GP points from running specialists. I cottaged all the :commerce: bonus squares but still couldn't seem to get the tech up to speed while growing the empire. I'm not a first rank player so there's probably lots of ways to improve the game, but the Wonder/GP strategy seems to suit my game a lot better than the CE.

Thank you for making the comparison, it is very educative for all.

The point of the cottage economy is not a quick initial win, but a better long term game. So I think it was only to be expected to get later to Liberalism. Did you finsih the game? Was the final result worst or better?

I despair, I think. I always intend to play a proper strategy (usually cottaging) and then somehow ... the map just isn't quite right for it, or whatever. And I find myself with just four-six cottages per city (last game, just two in my HQ. Yup. Two. Sigh).

I always end up playing part-cottage, part great person, part hammers. I'm sure I could do better if I just stayed focused. But I had one last try and got 1634, which was better than my first try at least, and not a bad date. I built more wonders than usual, the Oracle, Parthenon, Taj and Sistine because my HQ was so full of hammers they were incredibly cheap and useful. In fact, my HQ with just 2 cottages ended up being *way* over target culturally. If I'd built them with engineers, I could have spread the wonders around a little and probably finished a few years earlier. But there you go :)

Thank you for making the comparison, it is very educative for all.

The point of the cottage economy is not a quick initial win, but a better long term game. So I think it was only to be expected to get later to Liberalism. Did you finsih the game? Was the final result worst or better?

No, I didn't finish any. I quit and tried again whenever I got to a point where I couldn't figure out how to get the culture score high enough without switching to caste system and pushing the artists out. I had lots of cottages but no citizens to work them. I was looking at culture values of 50-60 base before mods and no cathedrals built. I generally needed to reseach drama and music after Liberalism before being able turn the slider on.

I did not use any close cities to work the cottages for the culture cities so I would have only two or three towns going by about 1000 AD. Is there an ALC game or other primer you would recommend for understanding this strategy.

How long is left to submit games?

My 9th attempt is going OK-ish. Don't know if it is a culture win though. Just removed Louis from the map. Missed the pyramids, hardly built any cultural buildings yet, Monty bet me to Music. It's 620AD. But Saladin and Monty are both my religion, Saladin is pleased, Monty is cautious but I could easy take him out with the troops left over from the Fench war, I'd lose brownie points with Saladin though I think. Not set up a GA farm yet (had 1 prophet which I used on the Jewish shrine, which everyone on the continent has as state religion), have lots of cottages around my capital but no beureaucracy yet (but soon). I have 6 cities and I could take a couple of Montys or flip them later I expect.

I'm thinking of abandoning culture though, I've already got a minor and there's not much time left is there. What do you think? Plan B is just attack Monty and then build up against Saladin for a domination win. I haven't won as Korea in HOF games yet though. I'd like to get a culture win though.

We don't close the gauntlets until we do the update, which is scheduled for the 10th. Granted, sometimes it runs a little late, so the gauntlet's close date gets pushed back as well.

That is what Methos said in the G-Minor 22 thread.

Shoot the Moon is correct.

The Gauntlet is concluded. Congratulations to the victors:

G-Minor 21 (http://hof.civfanatics.net/civ4/gauntlet.php?show=minor&gauntlet=49&submit=Go) featured yet another tight finish. 20 players won across four centuries, but killercane came out on top in 1547ad, with AAA only 11 years behind and Sun Tzu Wu not far behind that.