While the general Hall of Fame is an ongoing competition, we like to run time-definite competitions between updates that we call Gauntlets. Standard Hall of Fame rules (*) still apply, but any games meeting the settings will be counted towards the Gauntlet.

(*) Please read the >> HOF rules << (http://hof.civfanatics.net/civ4/rules.php) BEFORE playing!


Settings:

Victory Condition: Domination (though all victory conditions must be enabled)
Difficulty: Emperor
Starting Era: Ancient
Map Size: Standard
Map Type: Continents
Speed: Epic
Civ: Korea
Opponents: Any
Version: 2.08.004
Date: June 27th to July 24th
The earliest finish date wins, with score as a tiebreaker.

If you are at the big continent, does it have over 56% land? Or is there multiple continents?

Either way, this game is going to be tough on emperor. Koreans hwacha maybe the way to go.

Just curious...seems like Warlords only, which means that version 1.61.011 wouldn't apply, right?

Just curious...seems like Warlords only, which means that version 1.61.011 wouldn't apply, right?

I concur! Korean doesn't exist in Vanilla. I'm 99.99% sure about this.

I concur! Korean doesn't exist in Vanilla. I'm 99.99% sure about this.

Yup, no major or minor for me right now :(

I concur! Korean doesn't exist in Vanilla. I'm 99.99% sure about this.

And I am 99.2319% sure she is right. ;)

Let's see - Emperor on Warlords... Domination on continents... nothing trivial about this gauntlet.

I'm not going to even bother with this game, since there is very little chance I'll win any wars, let alone get at least 50% of the land.

I'm glad the poor old Koreans are getting a run for once, but I think this one will be a huge challenge for me. Let the advice start rolling in!

This should be fun. Does anyone know if you are guaranteed enough land for domination on the starting continent, or is it just luck?

Hwachas are going to be the main staple of my attempt.

I wonder how many people will actually be able to win this.

i know it's possible to have enough land on your starting continent. this example (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=4278039&postcount=225) shows that. but looking at the size of the other continent on that mini-map gives me the impression that it's in no way guaranteed ... unless the code somehow guarantees that the human starts out on the largest continent and also that the largest continent is big enough to reach that limit.

No Major AND no Minor for Vanilla :cry:

This seems to get difficult in four ways:
-we can't play Rome or Inca
I like this! Wanna try his UU.

-we use continents
I will counter this by using the maximum number of AIs, so my chances for winning on one continents is as high as possible.

-we use warlords
I like this too, there are some nice features and much less loopholes.

-we use epic instead of marathon
This raises the high difficulty even more...

Anyway I think I gonna research until catapults and then try to conquer the world recklessly.

-we use continents
I will counter this by using the maximum number of AIs, so my chances for winning on one continents is as high as possible.




But what if there are multiple continents. I think this is usually the case if you choose a lot of opponents

I won't have a chance to start this one until I can get GMinor 21 and GOTM20 out of the way first. So many games, so little time.

But what if there are multiple continents. I think this is usually the case if you choose a lot of opponents

Mh, I don't think the map creator has a relation to the amount of civs.
You can also check for the amount of land tiles at start.

I just can't imagine that you win this gauntlet with buildings navy.

Ok, start my first game, 10 other AI and no barbarians. So far at 500 AD, my home continent is too small to get 56% land, because there are only 2 other AI on this continent. After eliminating Monty and Bismarck, I realize my horrible fate, that is I have to do all the tech myself! Right now I just finish MC, and now teching for machinery and later optics to build some oversea carvels.

The maintenance and civic upkeep on Emperor level is what keeping me from expanding in this game. I'm not sure how other AI are doing, but I know from demographics that I have the least soldiers but 2nd on land area. The last religion found at the other places was Christanity.

Also, I can see the other AI had built all the wonders from the ancient age and that some AI got a great general. (I purposely setup the game, which has the most peaceful leaders like Gandhi and Elizabeth and aggressive leaders like Monty and Ragnar).

ok, first game I finally finish in disgrace...I end up retiring, because I just lost all my oversea expansion forces. I could wait for tanks, and I can see a handful of other nations dont have oil. Right now, I am second in tech, after a loooooong catch up in tech with massive trading. Man, the ai at emperor level just have to much soldiers, my entire oversea forces were wiped out in 1 turn by alex. I will try another game where I start on the big continent and maybe somewhat less aggressive AIs and start with copper in fat cross.

ok, first game I finally finish in disgrace...I end up retiring, because I just lost all my oversea expansion forces. I could wait for tanks, and I can see a handful of other nations dont have oil. Right now, I am second in tech, after a loooooong catch up in tech with massive trading. Man, the ai at emperor level just have to much soldiers, my entire oversea forces were wiped out in 1 turn by alex. I will try another game where I start on the big continent and maybe somewhat less aggressive AIs and start with copper in fat cross.
Yes to have a chance at winning I think you have to find a rare map where you can dominate on your own continent. Much faster and you dont have to worry about those big stacks :).

I quit my first game...I surprised myself by successfully rushing both Louis XIV and Gandhi(rushing for me means before 500AD lol)

but I ended up way behind Hannibal in tech, and after I declared war he was just a monster...oh yeah, and the civs on the other continent started paying me a visit before I even had compass. Despite my likely ability to reach around 40% of the land by completely taking over my continent, I would have been well behind the other continent and never would have been able to take them out.

At the moment, I'm busy exploring Space Empires V and don't plan to play this gauntlet. However, if I'm going to do it, I probably would abandon any game that doesn't start on a big continent. After about 30 turns, if I don't meet at least 5 civs, it probably means that I'm on a small island. The same thing goes for G-Minor, not enough civs=>not enough religions=>slow culture win.

At the moment, I'm busy exploring Space Empires V and don't plan to play this gauntlet. However, if I'm going to do it, I probably would abandon any game that doesn't start on a big continent. After about 30 turns, if I don't meet at least 5 civs, it probably means that I'm on a small island. The same thing goes for G-Minor, not enough civs=>not enough religions=>slow culture win.I am not sure I agree about the g-minor. Just playing around I managed to get Buddhism and Hinduism 2 out of 3 trys. I probably could have gotten Judaism as well if I had wanted to. Granted I didn't choose any spiritual civs. :)

Simply playing against Isabella, Asoka, Ghandi and Hatshepsut has guaranteed that I'll have at least 2 religions on my landmass, since they split up fairly evenly and they all seem to found at least 1 religion in each of my early failures so far.

I am not sure I agree about the g-minor. Just playing around I managed to get Buddhism and Hinduism 2 out of 3 trys. I probably could have gotten Judaism as well if I had wanted to. Granted I didn't choose any spiritual civs. :)

Well, 3 religions means "slow" win. For a reasonable win, I think 5 or 6 religions. Btw, I did give this gauntlet a shot and ended up with around 1040 AD on my first attempt. So many silly mistakes...I think 5AD or sooner is doable. Basically, My first two warriors captured 2 workers and made peace. Researched Bronze Working for axeman rush; pretty basic stuffs, nothing special at all.

Well, 3 religions means "slow" win. For a reasonable win, I think 5 or 6 religions.

Hehe, we're discussing the Minor in the Major thread. :crazyeye:

Really? You go for 5 or 6 religions? I typically stop at four, as after that it's too hard to spread your religion. The one thing I would consider (if I had a lot of cities) is to spread my religions around to different cities. That way I had five or six religions, but no city had more than three. Than I would do my best to get as many religions as possible in my culture three. With eighteen cities I could have no more than three religions in each city and still have six religions. :hmm: That's something worth trying.

Really? You go for 5 or 6 religions? I typically stop at four, as after that it's too hard to spread your religion.
You are right about that. May be that why I haven't gotten any top slot on culture. Will try to focus just on just 4 (may be 5) from now on.

Back on topic, this gauntlet is much tougher than I thought. Even 1000AD target date is very tough. At this time, I doubt I can get anything done before 1000AD.

My attempt at the worker steal was 1 for 3 in my first game. :aargh: The two failures were promptly killed by archers and the workers recaptured. Only found a single hut :cry: and no nearby copper :wallbash:

So what's the best research path after bronze-working? Grab the needed worker functions then head for construction?

My attempt at the worker steal was 1 for 3 in my first game. :aargh: The two failures were promptly killed by archers and the workers recaptured. Only found a single hut :cry: and no nearby copper :wallbash:

Worker stealing ended up badly for me too. I don't do it any more. Even if I was able to make peace with them after that (pretty tough to make peace because we have nothing to stop their archers), they refused to trade techs and the rest of them complained "you attacked my friends".:(

So what's the best research path after bronze-working? Grab the needed worker functions then head for construction?

1100AD win was pretty easy and very relaxing too; I don't expect to be on the top 5 with this kind of target date but it was a lot of fun and I probably will try it again. Basically, I built my empire the old fashion way - my starting warrior to explore and pop a few huts while my capital building a worker. Once my city got to size 4, I built a settler, then barracks. Research for Pottery first (need to get some cottages going early), then Bronze Working (get some early axemans rolling), then Alphabet (trade for some of their techs - such as Animals, Monarchy, Sailings, Iron Workings), then Construction (now the fun begin with Hwacha). I put a War Elephant, a couple of axemans, a couple of spears, and a lot of Hwacha in each of my stack. The combination of elephant, axe and spear prevented the AI from targeting my stack and let my Hwacha performed its magics (got to love those fireworks).

The fireworks are cool.

Unfortunately, that is the extent of my insights into the uses of the hwacha.

This should be fun. Does anyone know if you are guaranteed enough land for domination on the starting continent, or is it just luck?

Hwachas are going to be the main staple of my attempt.

I think the normal case is that there are two continents almost the same size. So the percentage should be difficult to reach.

What I would try is playing with an uneven number of total civs - 7 or 9.

I think with 7 civs one continent is supposed to be comparably bigger because it has to host 4 civs, while the other one hosts only 3.

Assuming there are 2 continents and one is bigger than the other one ... you have a 50% chance to be sitting on the bigger one. :)


I also think that a SE with Pyramids would have an easier go here for reaching the population threshold and for still running research while sacking cities.

It would be mach more challenging and less unnoing with Conquest as a victory condition.

Firaxis in my opinion made mistake when they make continent screept in such way that one can get domination with just one continent.
So, it made good map generation a boright slow process and make use of vassals imposible, as vassals reduce you starting continent a bit.

OK, maybe I will attempt this, even though it seems way out of my league. I might post some progress here, as I will not be able to do it without some helpful advice.

OK then, here is the start of my first attempt:

155287

And here is where I am at after 41 turns:

155289

Compared to Moonsinger's games where she has taken over 4 AIs at this point, I have basically gone nowhere in this time. What should I have done differently?

What should I do from here? Or have I already stuffed it so badly I should give up?

Alternatively, here is another attempt. I got off to a good start with gold in the capital (plus silver showed up later) and iron and copper nearby. So far has been my best ever Emperor military campaign (except when I carelessly raised the Confucian holy city) but am now in the typical 500 AD doldrums. Any advice on this game appreciated as well.

155303

Compared to Moonsinger's games where she has taken over 4 AIs at this point, I have basically gone nowhere in this time. What should I have done differently?

I think you are comparing apples to bananas.;) I could never have taken over 4 AIs at this point with non-Inca civ. I'm 99.99% sure that I can't do it. Of course, it's doable with the Inca, but you are playing with just normal warrior here. Again, I'm 99.99% sure that I won't be able do it at this point.

I see now why this has been chosen as a gauntlet. Unless I am searching the HoF incorrectly, nobody has ever done a Korean Emperor Domination victory on Epic Continents before. So there are no games to look up as references to what might work in this situation.

Yeah, if you are able to beat this gauntlet, you're really a skilled player.
As I said, this one is difficult.

That's why I am trying to get all the help I can get. Doesn't look like many people are even attempting this.

I did a second attempt that I really wish I would have taken seriously. I was on the smaller continent which is why I didn't take it seriously, but I figured I'd play it out to start warring with one of the other civs for practice. I made great progress taking out 4 Persian cities with Axeman/Hwacha/Spearmen. I then popped a great general and attached him to Hwacha cause I figured I was quitting soon anyway...it lost its next attack with a 90+ chance at victory :sad: So I stop payin attention for a few turns and then came to the realization that I had captured the Persian copper supply, destroyed their iron city, and the Spain (the other Civ on the continent that I had a +6 dip with) didn't have either. So I should have been able to continue my conquest of Persia, build up and infrastructure and tech parter with Spain while I built a military to take her out.:mischief:

I did follow Moonsinger's suggestion above with a more peaceful start. The main problem I ran into was happiness. Pre-calendar luxuries would be of great help, I didn't have any. So gold, silver, fur, ivory, gems would be good things to have.

There has only been one submission in this Major. I wonder how many will actually be completed. I hope I can achieve one.

I'm hopeful of completing this, have started and if I have enough time (and luck) I'll get it done. I'm on an island with enough land for domination (I think), still well in the BCs and I've just axed-annexed Frederick.

This game is very hard. I'm an intelligent person. Why can't I work this out as easily as some people around here seem to be able to. I just don't see that there can be that many different (i.e better) ways of doing things.

This game is very hard. I'm an intelligent person. Why can't I work this out as easily as some people around here seem to be able to. I just don't see that there can be that many different (i.e better) ways of doing things.

You're a little hard on yourself considering thus far there has been only one successful submission. I'm not worried about what year I complete it in...I just want to complete this bad boy and fill my Emperor slot with a cheese-free quality win.

One way to look at this gauntlet is a call-to-arms for all those who don't like the association given the HOF with cheesy wins. This is a true test of your ability to play the game rather than a race to see who can use the same strategy most effectively.

I am on my 3rd attempt which looks fruitful. I got minimum 4 AI on my continent (still exploring), I got to alphabet before anyone else got writing (after beeline to pottery, then BW), I secured a copper and ivory in addition to foods, and I got Izzy to the south with a polar start and she's putting the hate on me.

Compared to Moonsinger's games where she has taken over 4 AIs at this point, I have basically gone nowhere in this time. What should I have done differently?

What should I do from here? Or have I already stuffed it so badly I should give up?

I think you've missed some of the techniques that HOF players use.

I would have regened the map from looking at the start. For this gauntlet I would be looking for an inland capital and food resources. The map I picked had 2 gold mines, marble, wheat, cows, clams and then I got horses in the fat cross. I settled on a plains hill beside the wheat/gold/marble heaven. It's a great location because I can switch between a growth, tech or production depending on what I want to do. The gold let get ag and ah before teching to alpha.

Big difference between GOTM and HOF is you get choose the opponents and the map.

I haven't finished the game yet but I only had 2 civs on the continent. I teched to BW found copper then built one settler to work the copper I found.
I took Quin's capital and then made peace for a tech. Took the other capital and made peace. I started the war with a stack of six axes. I stopped building axes when I had enough to take both capitals. I whipped graneries and then libraries when my cities got unhappy.

It won't be a fast finish because I think the continent is too small for a domination win but I will probably finish the game anyway if I can find a small island to invade.

Choose a good start with something you can work early. Build a worker then plan the first war and go for it early. I look for two or three food sources for a capital for a good start but gold is real treat.

The other thing you should think of is who you want to fight/trade with. You have some tough customers there, you should look at selecting more peaceful, trade oriented civs.

Thanks, erikthecelt. I am on to my 4th attempt now and I am focusing more closely on micromanaging the capital, really choprushing the first settler (this level is much less forgiving of slow settlement) and making sure the second city is placed somewhere really good (not just any old place to fill in some space).

I think I have STILL been struggling to throw off the old Civ3 habits of just settling jigsaw style to make sure each tile is used in a city.

But I like to assess by turn 100 whether I have made a good start or not, because I'm not good enough yet at this level to be able to recover if things are suboptimal at turn 100. I would be interested to know what sort of position other people are at at turn 100, so I can benchmark things like city numbers, tech, builds etc to see if I am still going too slowly.

They say that the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting something different to happen.

So for my sixth attempt at this, I am changing my plan completely. I am going to modify Moonsinger's quechua rush into a warrior rush to attempt to slow the AI down enough until I can bring Axes and Swords into the mix.

So far, the plan is working much better than the old Pyramid chasing plan. Elizabeth has only two cities, no improvements, and I have 8 swordsmen headed her way. I may soon actually be able to wipe out an AI civ on Emperor in the BC years.

The challenge of this Emperor gauntlet has forced me to learn some new approaches to the game.

I'm wondering about a couple of settings and whether they would make this gauntlet easier or harder. Thoughts?

Aggressive AI: I've never used it. Would this make the AI more likely to war each other, or more likely to have a larger army for you to have to wade through?

Minimum vs. Maximum AIs: Which is better. Fewer means fewer needed to defeat, but does more make each individual ai smaller and therefore easier to defeat. Also, having more means more potential trading partners...

Sea Level/Climate: Are there preferencial choices for the circumstances? Higher Seas=Less Land should be a quicker victory, no? Tropical allow better cottage span for our Civ?

My current attempt (still 3rd) is going alright, all but eliminated Spain, now I have to decide whether I can fight Asoka's longbowmen with Hwacha's and War Elephants or wait until I can upgrade my veteran axemen to Macemen. Should win Liberalism race.

There is ugly...

Then there is butt-ugly...

Then there is the game I just submitted... :vomit:

I made several huge mistakes:

- On my initial axe rush of Ghandi, he had a big stack in his capital. I thought I had a big enough stack to take him out. Oops... didn't succeed, after a couple of bad luck rolls, I needed to rebuild my whole army (and he got to promote several surviving defenders). Since I only had 2-3 cities, this took forever.

- Once I was about halfway to domination, I was blocked by Brennus who was a powerhouse. However, I had more production than he did, so I spent some time building up a sufficient army. I decided to switch religions so I could run Theocracy in my main prod cities. This pissed off Izzy, who attached through Brennus' lands. I didn't have a hard time beating her armies, but it cost me a significant part of my army. This meant more time lost to rebuild.

- Then, I got greedy. I was still behind Brennus in power, but decided to attack. I was banking on being able to beat him via better war tactics. However, our shared border was a curve and he was on the inside. My broader front meant my weaker force was also spread. After grinding away most of my army, I had one city to show for it. So, time to rebuild my army again!

Each of these blunders cost me centuries. Hence my final domination was way late (using cavs)... 1770 AD. :blush:

I had contemplated abandoning after my Ghandi fiasco because I knew I was in for a slow game. However, as Moonsinger was alone on the leaderboard, I thought I should finish and post a score. This way, her time is no longer the last place time! ;)

I've started another game, pretty sure I can improve on my time :rolleyes:. Two concerns in this game. So far, no religions have been founded on my continent, so I'm not getting any culture for border expansion. Second, I'm not 100% sure the continent is big enough. We'll see...

At last, some more people in this thread. Hawkie, can you give me some tips for this one? Clearly, this is a walk in the park for you if you can win it whilst making lots of blunders. I seem to run into one of two problems:
1) Either I knuckle down to go for Pyramids and Great Library, but even if I get them, the other AIs have huge armies and loads of land and I can't compete militarily; or
2) I rush 'em from the start, but by early mid-game, my economy is down the toilet and I'm so far behind in technology, it's swordsmen vs musketmen. Then the galleons start showing up from the undisturbed behemoths on the other continent.

How do you balance these challenges? This level is so unforgiving. You give the AI an inch and they take a mile. Any advice welcome please. I am enjoying the challenge of this, but will give up soon unless I can see some sort of light at the end of the tunnel.

Of course, happy to help a fellow Geezer! First to answer some questions:

Clearly, this is a walk in the park for you if you can win it whilst making lots of blunders.

Not at all, this is not easy. I've had a couple of abandoned games before I won. Wang's traits are useless for this scenario, although I do like those Hwacha's. Once you get ahead of the AI's, it is easy to win (even if it takes forever). However, getting ahead of the AI's is not easy.

1) Either I knuckle down to go for Pyramids and Great Library, but even if I get them, the other AIs have huge armies and loads of land and I can't compete militarily;

I don't build wonders. It takes too long and uses up too many hammers. By the time you've built it, the AI's are long gone. I think the key to this scenario is focus. If you want to do an early axe rush, then build axes early and often.

2) I rush 'em from the start, but by early mid-game, my economy is down the toilet and I'm so far behind in technology, it's swordsmen vs musketmen. Then the galleons start showing up from the undisturbed behemoths on the other continent.

In my current game, economy is a big challenge as well. This is a tough balance to maintain in a domination rush. I think I see the light at the end of the tunnel now, but at one point, I was within a turn of starting to lose units. Luckily, a couple of AI's had currency, so I was able to trade some techs for cash (until I could take a few more cities and get the cash bonuses from them). I am depending on some of my captured cities having cottages underway.

Now some general comments on my strategy to date:


I am playing with maximum AI's and high sea level. At emperor, I know the AI's will out-expand me, so I'd prefer they run out of room quickly. I also want some... umm... volunteers to join my empire very close by. More AI's also lowers the land domination limit.

I am looking for a start with at least one gold, preferably two. Gold mines allow me to continue to tech while building axes.

I am building minimum settlers. They are also a distraction from building early military. I let the AI's build my cities for me. In the game I submitted, and in my current game, I built zero settlers because I found copper in my initial fat cross. If copper is not in the fat cross, I'll build 1 settler to get it. If there is no copper, I abandon.

Tech order has been: a worker tech based on any resources nearby (Ag, AH), Bronze, Wheel, Pottery, writing, beeline for construction for early Hwachas, then CoL for courthouses. In my current game, I'm needing to follow that with a detour for music so I can build culture. After that, CS to make my capital rock.

Build order: worker, 1 or 2 warriors, barracks. Then settler if needed. If not, axe, axe, axe, axe, axe... Once I have 5-6 axes, I go after a neighbor. Build order for captured cities: barracks, axe, axe, axe...

Once I have construction, my build order changes dramatically: Now it is hwacha, hwacha, hwacha... ;)

Once I have CoL, I take a break from military to build courthouses.


I'm not sure this strategy is optimal. It certainly is risky. If I can't get out axes quickly enough to expand, I will fall behind with no hope of catching up. On my win, I built granaries and a library or two, this current game, I'm trying to skip those. Again, if I fall behind, I will regret this choice. We'll see!

Cheers, Hawkmeister. About what date do you usually get your first neighbour's capital?

Oracling Construction or CoL is not a bad way to go. I have found that it is easier to get to domination limit landwise than population wise with the other continent growing and growing while you whip units and build settlers after the initial conquer em all phase. Maybe this can be solved by having max AIs? Anyone know?

In all my attempts so far, only my first attempt has yield me any copper in the fat cross, and I was stucked in the small continent w/ 2 ai.

In my current game, with max ai, I started next to a horse and 2nd city w/ 3 ivories. I declared war on Alex and G khan early to steal a worker each and manage to delay them from settling on my ivory city. Now at 100 ad, I manage to take out Alex w/ elephants and hwacha. Probably too slow. The warmongers at my continent are pretty slow in tech, while the peace civ are relatively advance. I am worry those peaceful civ are running away w/ tech.

That's what I struggle with. How to keep up with the runaway civs that aren't your neighbours.

i guess next attempt for me is to put more warmongers than peaceful ones. In my current attempt, I have 5 peaceful ai and 5 aggressive ai and my starting continent has 4 peaceful and 3 aggressive ones. That means Mana Musa at the other continent is stuck w/ 2 warmongers (I think the are Ragnar and Peter). I wish good luck to him as I turned off vassal state (since I dont like unexpected backstabs and the ai have to fight longer, more wars btw ai = better winning chance). However, w/o vassals, I will have to do all the fighting myself and takes longer for domination to take place.

Cheers, Hawkmeister. About what date do you usually get your first neighbour's capital?

In the submitted game, my first DOW was 775 BC. Took me a long time to get the capital due to the miscalculation I mentioned in my last post. Second DOW was in early AD because of all the lost time.

Current game in progress: first DOW 1510 BC, second 370 BC, third 326 BC (finishing off the first CIV, I had made peace to get his techs), 4th DOW 170 AD. Moving along much faster than my submitted game. I'm at 305 AD, 2 civs gone, the third is hurt badly. Starting to bog down though, the 3rd civ got longbows. It takes a pretty good stack of Hwacha's to clear out those lb's. :(

I had contemplated abandoning after my Ghandi fiasco because I knew I was in for a slow game. However, as Moonsinger was alone on the leaderboard, I thought I should finish and post a score. This way, her time is no longer the last place time! ;)

Thanks for thinking about me.:)

I've been experimenting with a more Moonsinger style war approach - namely going at a neighbour really early (with warriors) to slow them down a bit while I get the axes online. Seemed to work OK, but then I blundered the actual axe rush at the capital, and then collapsed after two other civs attacked me.

That's the problem with this for me is that I need to get EVERYTHING right in order to get anywhere. As soon as I make one mistake, it's curtains.

Plus, I seem to always get the annoying bit where I am about to finish off someone, but then they vassalise to the top dog (whom I had previously cultivated a healthy friendship), who then attacks me out of the blue with waves of superior mounted units.

I've been experimenting with a more Moonsinger style war approach - namely going at a neighbour really early (with warriors) to slow them down a bit while I get the axes online. Seemed to work OK, but then I blundered the actual axe rush at the capital, and then collapsed after two other civs attacked me.

That's the problem with this for me is that I need to get EVERYTHING right in order to get anywhere. As soon as I make one mistake, it's curtains.

Plus, I seem to always get the annoying bit where I am about to finish off someone, but then they vassalise to the top dog (whom I had previously cultivated a healthy friendship), who then attacks me out of the blue with waves of superior mounted units.

Your solution may be to turn off vassal state

turn off vassal state

Wow, can I do that? That would eliminate the problem of having to finish off each enemy completely, meaning I could turn my attention to the next target once I'd weakened one enemy sufficiently to longer be a threat. I am taking too long to take the last few cities, leaving everyone undisturbed growth to pull away.

yep, its one of the options you are allowed to turn on or off for the HOF :)

Wow, can I do that?

Yes. As Thrallia said, it is one of the optional choices we allow in the HOF Rules (http://hof.civfanatics.net/civ4/rules.php). It is your choice is you wish to use vassal states (unchecked) or turn them off (checked). You can scroll down to the Options section to see what other options are allowed, disallowed, or optional. Good luck!

15th attempt at this game just came to an end when Churchill landed grenadiers to attack my archers and spearmen in 1400AD.

Advice appreciated! I am at a turning point in my 20th game. See screenshot.

155569

I have parity with the other AIs right now at 310BC but it's about here that my games go downhill because my economy falls apart and they tech ahead. How to I keep up from here?

I have parity with the other AIs right now at 310BC but it's about here that my games go downhill because my economy falls apart and they tech ahead. How to I keep up from here?

In my latest attempt I didn't really get a GP farm established...I ran a scientist in the city I captured with the Great Pyramids and that was the extent of it. The couple of GP I got help me, but I really needed more. I mostly relied on cottage spam which did alright, but I was a victim of the vassal-stab. Twice nations I had on the brink became vassals of the most powerful civ at the time, and I was heavily pillaged.:cry: Next attempt will definately have vassal states turned off.

So looking economically at what works. Since Korea is finanacial, Cottage spam works well, especially on rivers, but supplement a GP farm to produce GS primarily for lightbulbing to maintain parity. Any cities that aren't great for either of those need decent enough production to produce armies. It also helps to make war on Ais that are teching well in order to slow them down, and possibly extort a tech from them for peace.

On a sidenote: I figured the Hwacha would a ton of value after fuedalism, but I've been giving the CR promotions and they do well, especially against macemen in cities after a trebuchet takes out the longbowmen and weakens the rest of the defenders.

Second sidenote: Isabella declared war on me while the bulk of my army was on the other side of the empire preparing for war with someone else. She moved in with 2 archers, 7 spearmen, and 9 axemen. They city she was targeting, Washington, was recently taken form the Americans and had 5 Hwacha and 2 Axemen. Noting her stack was almost all melee and I moved my army out of the city and let her take it. I pulled and axmen with medic I promotion from a nearby city to join my stack and proceded to attack Washington again with my Hwacha while the axemen generally were fortified. I retook the city, loosing only two Hwacha to bad luck. I figure 19 (she added an archer) for 2 was a nice deal and left her wide open for a counter attack and left her in shambles and netted me Code of Laws and 200 gold for peace, though I wonder if I would have been better off taking her capital and the holy shrine for the second largest religion in the world.

Nice move, Padraig. I'm not sure I would ever think of pulling a trick like that.

But I take note of your Great Person reminder. I have been concentrating so hard on building swordsmen and maintaining beakers that I have overlooked the Great Person side of things. That does need to be very high on my list of matters to address when I start playing again because just one or two strategically lightbulbed techs, along with cash from plunder could be the difference that keeps me in the game. Thanks.

Another thing you might want to consider is your opponents. I make sure to not include any Protective or Creative Civs in the game. Obviously Protective will take more resources to conquer with their free premotions. Also creative gets higher city defense faster, and their border expansion is downright annoying, not to mention the potential culture flip. Churchill, as mentioned above, would not be a nice guy to face in this gauntlet.

Bugger. Churchill is leading the score at the moment. Does that mean I should hit him now before he gets his indestructible longbowmen? I probably have a very short window to do that in.

Bugger. Churchill is leading the score at the moment. Does that mean I should hit him now before he gets his indestructible longbowmen? I probably have a very short window to do that in.

Probably easier sooner than later. I see you already hit Saladin already (also Protective).:goodjob:

I only hit Saladin because he was the first capital I located.

The other big thing I need to do is to keep everyone else onside somehow as it is game over if I ever have to fight on two fronts.

OK. I had a go at Churchill and have knocked him down a peg or two, but now Asoka and Kublai are pulling away. Any suggestions for what I should do now?

155599

This is easily my best ever Emperor game so far but there's still a long way to go.

I would take aim at Asoka, since he is generally more dangerous about pulling away technologically.

If you have good relations with Mansa, Kublai, or Asoka, I would attempt to bribe Mansa/Asoka into war with Kublai, or Kublai into war with Asoka, while you take on Asoka.

Hmm, diplomacy is probably the weakest of my many weak points but I am aware that the best players at this level make good use of the other AIs to help them out.

At the moment I have no religion. I used to be Buddhist like Churchill and Asoka (and they loved me) but I went to no religion when I attacked Churchill. Kublai is Hindu and Mansa is Confucian. Saladin is Jewish.

Should I align with a religion to get help with Asoka?

I'd align with Mansa to get him to help you against Asoka, or to send him alone against Kublai.

Or with Kublai to send him against Mansa

Does anybody know how the percentage of total population required for domination is affected by the game settings (or any other factors as the game progresses)? :confused: It definately changes throughout the course of a game.

I'm sure this knowledge would be useful. Killercane already mentioned that the population % limit could be the more difficult of the two thresholds for this minor.

OK, making progress... :D

I just submitted a second win. Finish date was 1340 AD (turn 280). My 1770 AD win was turn 400, so about 30% less turns.

Better yet, this was only 40 turns slower than Moonsinger's 1st submission. I consider 15% slower than Moonsinger a very respectable result :) . I might have another go at it, this is helping me build my early dom skills.

Bad news... 30% less turns, still last place! :rolleyes:

That's awesome, Hawk! I still can't visualise how this is possible, but if you can give me some more pointers on how to actually complete one of my games, and I can be bright enough to make them work, then I can guarantee you won't be in last place any more!

It's hard to give too much advice on your game without seeing a save. But, some additional advice to add to my last post.

- I chose AI's that were not financial (to minimize their teching) and not protective (so they would be easier to conquer). While I hadn't thought of it, in retrospect, I agree with Padraig's observation that creative should also be avoided (I had one creative AI, but she ended up on the other continent). Next time, I'll avoid those as well.

- I wish I had thought to turn off vassals. In my 1770 win, I had problems with AI's vassalizing. This was not an issue in the 1340 win.

- I really focused on producing units. I built very few buildings besides barracks and courthouses in most cities. Other than that, two early monuments in captured cities that needed to expand to grab a resource, 1 granary and 1 forge (in my capital), heroic epic in capital, and forbidden palace somewhere. Absolutely nothing else, zero libraries, no other granaries, etc. I did minimal whipping, so I didn't waste the time on granaries. A few extra early axemen are more important to get a quick jump. Besides, with the constant war weariness and whining to rejoin homelands, I didn't want big populations in my cities.

- Speaking of concentrating on early axes, I built 1 worker and 0 settlers. Ended up capturing a couple of dozen workers though. :mischief:

- No GP farms... every city was a Hwacha farm! I build 179 Hwacha's. :D One of my captured cities did pop a Great Artist (from a captured wonder), I had zero other GPs.

- I teched as I suggested in my previous post. Find copper, beeline to construction, head for CoL and CS. Picked up music to build culture (no early religions on my continent), then drama for culture slider at the end. I guess I did get paper thinking I might need to tech to cavs. This was a waste, Hwachas took me to the end. A stack of 30 Hwachas will have no problem with a city defended by longbows, macemen, and oliphants. Their collateral damage really is devastating versus defender stacks. I traded paper for machinery and build a couple dozen maces at the end just to travel with my Hwacha hordes.

- However, having said all that, teching was really secondary after construction. Cities focused on building Hwacha's, not on becoming learned. Think barbarian, not academia.

- Honestly, I paid little attention to diplomacy. I managed relationships with a big stick. :hammer:

- Taoism eventually was discovered on my continent and spread to me. I really wasn't paying attention, should have switched to it right away for Theocracy. I did eventually.

Good luck, I hope this helps... Personally, I would like to see more open sharing of strategies and tactics during gauntlets so that we all move the state of the art forward. I'd love to see you learn from my experience and knock me into third place. ;)

Hmm, I have already built 4 libraries so my strategy is already different to yours.

I think from here, I am 10 turns from Paper, so plan to get that and see what I can get out of it, then go into Hawk-a-Hwacha mode to cripple Asoka. Not sure how on earth you build a stack of 30 hwacha, let alone pay for the maintenance, but I will give it a go.

I do need to pay attention to diplomacy because all my other games have ended when someone attacked my lightly defended cities away from the front line.

You might want to go for Engineering after Paper, Harbourboy...Trebs are the next best thing to Hwachas on this game.

Hawk, did you need to build much in the way of anti-mounted units (Spearmen, Pikemen, Elephants)? My big problem once I get into battle with the big boys are the hordes of mounted units (usually advanced ones) that rampage all over the place pillaging everything.

OK, here is an updated screenshot. Any comments or advice welcome. I still haven't attacked Asoka because I felt inadequate after Hawk's casual reference to a stack of 30 Hwacha. Not sure if the stack in Medina is ready to rampage through India yet.

155623

My next key window ends when Gunpowder and musketmen arrive, which can't be far off. I think I need to have made some serious inroads into India by then.

We're having some technical difficulties with the HOF Site and are working on them.

That stack should be able to take out Asoka...you've got spears for mounted defense, and plenty of hwachas.

As long as you've got a medic somewhere in that stack, preferably a General Medic 3, you should be fine.

That stack should be able to take out Asoka...you've got spears for mounted defense, and plenty of hwachas.


Are you sure about that?
I see a maceman and some horse archers on Asokas side.
First you should destroy those horse archers on the border.
Maceman will give his swordsmen a hard time, adding longbowmen to that list and I don't think his army will destroy Asoka.

Maces will face his Hwachas, as they give a 50% bonus against Melee units
The Horse Archers will attack him, he won't need to attack them, thus they'll face his spears.

Asoka may have longbows, but if he's been peaceful so far, he shouldn't have any that have more than 2 city garrison promotions, so his Hwachas should be able to take that kind of a defensive stack pretty well.

Now, he probably can't take Delhi, but I'm sure he can take most, if not all, of Asoka's bordering cities.

Especially if he pulls a trick I learned recently...kill all but 1 wounded defender in a city, then let the AI reinforce the city....then smack it again. Do that a couple times, and the AI will have very few troops left for anything else.
Another note, Harbourboy...is that if you take a city, but don't think you'll be able to keep it...then just raze it unless it has a wonder or shrine in it. That way, even if you don't win the war, you still hurt Asoka.

Maces will face his Hwachas, as they give a 50% bonus against Melee units
That's right, but he'll loose some hwachas at every town then.
The Horse Archers will attack him, he won't need to attack them, thus they'll face his spears.
I wouldn't count on that. They won't go suicide in his large stack.

Despite that, I agree with you.
Your trick is nice, I hope I remember it for my next games.

Maces will face his Hwachas, as they give a 50% bonus against Melee units


But Maces have strength 8, a Hwacha even with a 50% bonus against melee can only go up to 7.5. The combat promotion will furthur favor the Mace, unless you get shock promotion.

Thanks for the ideas, guys. I did use a Hwacha, War Elephant, and Spearman to take out that Horse Archer / Longbow stack before attacking Delhi. Here is that state of play in 1142.

155640

Any further ideas welcome as your suggestions have all proven to be successful so far.

I just finished a game where I tried a new tactic. I didn’t attack anyone early (ie with warriors or axemen) but made a beeline to construction instead. The second part of my plan was to generate 2 early GS with the help of the Great Library to bulb machinery and engineering.

With the delay before pumping military units I had to pounce very quickly once I had hwacha and war elephants to slow down the AI and grow my empire. By aiming to lightbulb the next expensive military techs, it wouldn’t be long until I had trebuchets to make the final inroads that I needed.

I’m far from an expert or even an experienced player, but since I’ve learnt so much from the forum threads I thought I should contribute since this game turned out very well for me.

I should also add that the map I played was PERFECT for this gauntlet. Had a capital that was able to tech quickly and my second city picked up the strategic resources I needed. I actually teched fast enough to self research machinery before popping engineering with the GS (which was generated without the help of the GLib). Also, once I met 6 (out of 8) rivals in the first 20 turns I knew I could probably get a domination victory.

In hindsight the victory was more due to the map than the tactics, possibly.

Better not get too excited because a few of my recent hof games haven’t made it through cos I must have stuffed up the settings somehow. Did a fresh Civ4 install before this one to be on the safe side. :)

Nice work, Jimmy.

Nice idea Jimmy, perhaps I'll try that too.

Hawk, did you need to build much in the way of anti-mounted units (Spearmen, Pikemen, Elephants)?

I built a handful of spears. Most were single units to sit in captured towns so the population would not whine about millitary protection. I had a few stashed in my capital (near my western border) while I was cleaning up to the east and south. At one point Peter decided to sucker punch me, DOW from the west towards my capital. IIRC a handful of elephants and horse archers. Bad news for him was my capital had a couple of spears and a hwacha or two as defense. Also, my capital could produce a spear pretty much every turn. He never even managed to pillage a tile before I mauled his stack. I ended up razing a crappy border town of his just to teach him a lesson. Other than that, no AI ever DOW on me. I was ahead on power pretty much the whole game.

Harbourboy, it looks like your continent should have enough land for a domination victory, as long as you can take everyone out.

I would attempt to take at least Bangalore from Asoka still, possibly whatever city is above it as well, before making peace with him(and try to get some good military techs when you do!). Then I'd tech to Engineering, and using lots of Hwachas and Trebs, try to take down Khan as well. It would definitely be a good idea to have some spears/pikes with you when you hit Khan, and maybe a X-bow or two to fend off the Maces.

If you can take 3-5 cities from Khan, you should have this game in the bag!
:goodjob:

Once you have explored your continent, is there an easy way to determine whether that continent is above the domination limit?

I just played a practise game for this Gauntlet on Prince level. I was happy to find out that my continent had 6 out of 11 civilizations including myself. After conquering the 5 AI civilizations on my continent, my land area was still only 20%. It took me about 50 extra turns to expand my cultural boundaries and settle more cities, only to find out that my continent was only 47% of the world total land mass. :mad:

Guys, I need your inspiration again as I am getting bogged down in 1472 AD - still not having touched Kublai Khan. See screenshot for the tech trading status:

155664

And the theatre of war. I went after Churchill because his culture was killing London.

155665

Any more good ideas very welcome.

Do your best to get Printing Press from Mansa, that should greatly improve your economy.

Also, see if you can trade for Astronomy from Cyrus...that will allow you trade with the other continent, where hopefully you can grab a few gpt in resource trades.

As far as Khan is concerned...if you can finish off Churchill, Asoka, and Saladin, then I would attempt to declare war on Khan, bribe Mansa in, and then after you've hurt Khan, take out Mansa...if you can take down either of them, you should be able to take out the other one by simply fighting a war of attrition due to your massively larger empire.

I would also adopt Police State ASAP...hopefully one of the cities you grabbed had the Pyramids.

155679

Thanks again Thrallia. I have now eliminated Churchill and Asoka which means I am first in score! Unheard of!

But I am still 4th in power. Does that mean Kublai has a massive army that will engulf me when I turn on him?

:mad:

I was doing great in my last well in my last attempt, I had taken out 2 of the 5 civs on my continent and hand and had secured the southern 40% or so of my continent so I made the push against Cyrus eventhough he had a tech lead over me, I had the military advantage. I'm laying seige to his capital when Isabella declares war on me and for some reason my stack seiging Cyrus' capital is booted back to my nearest city eventhough Cyrus and I never made peace. Then Asoka declares war the next turn and I'm at war with my entire continent without tech parity. I even spent time converting all my cities to Buddhism to try and keep Isabella off my back a century before this happened, but to no avail. Unfortunately she was the furthest away from me on the continent so I never considered prempting her.

155679

Thanks again Thrallia. I have now eliminated Churchill and Asoka which means I am first in score! Unheard of!

But I am still 4th in power. Does that mean Kublai has a massive army that will engulf me when I turn on him?

I would scout his land and try to locate where the bulk of his military is. Presumably he'll send a couple of massive stacks your way, all you have to do is be ready to destroy those stacks and his power will plummet.

Good point Padraig. I always forget that I can wander around the lands of futrue enemies while they still love me.

I'm actually still playing my game in 1055AD, not dead yet (first ever Emperor game, never won on Monarch either).

I was on a continent with Freddy and Ragnar. I've just finished off Freddy, he didn't put up much of a fight really. Gotta love the Hwacha. I declared on him 4 times, getting a city at least each war (nice cottage location first war, gonna move my capital there next I think, and I razed a fishing village. Second War I took Berlin and razed the fishing village he built again in the same spot. Third war took a city near me and kept the newly built fishing village this time. Final war finished off his last 2 cities, he got longbows but only had 1 in each of his last 2 cities, and city raider 2 hwachas finished them off pretty easily.

Ragnar is pleased with me (he's only got -1 close borders spark tensions, he's +6 in total I think). He's got beserkers and I am just about to get machinery for macemen. He's got a bit of a tech lead, I got 2 artists (lightbulbed with them both) instead of scientists from my capital with National Epic, Stonehenge and Great Lib. Built Parthenon in my second city. Heroic epic is in the first city I took from Freddy since it is more central and has OK production.

I'm finding this game easier than my Monarch games so far, something must be amiss. I'll probably get a proper beating soon. Huayna has just turned up in a caravel. I doubt I'll win the liberalism race so will probably stick to military techs and try and knock out Ragnar after a good bit of building courthouses and a better army. I don't think I will have enough land if I take the whole continent for domination (7 civs including me so it's 64%).

I'll be happy if I can just survive really. If by some miracle I do get a win I will be very pleased since it is my first attempt at this level, even if I have to change plan from domination (depends what the other continent is like) I can still enter a win as a normal HOF game. Fingers and toes crossed ;)

155679

Thanks again Thrallia. I have now eliminated Churchill and Asoka which means I am first in score! Unheard of!

But I am still 4th in power. Does that mean Kublai has a massive army that will engulf me when I turn on him?

It looks like you should be able to take out Saladin next...I'd scout Khan's land while doing that, you don't want Saladin getting anywhere near Rifles with his protective trait.

Next, if it looks like you can't take Khan yet, I'd see if you can bribe Mansa, or Khan, into war with the other one...or maybe into war with someone on the other continent so that they expend their stacks.

After that, either take on Khan or Mansa first, followed immediately by the other.

If that doesn't give you enough land/pop to win...it looks like Cyrus would be an easy mark on the other continent for the little bit of extra land you'd need,

Mansa only has about two cities left (one of them the megacultured Timbuctu) as he already got into a scuffle with Khan. Saladin only has two cities left so maybe it's a case of mopping those up then stacking for Khan. Mansa is still useful for the odd trade tech now and again.

Main issues with time now are:
- how long until Khan gets infantry and artillery?
- will Qin or Mehmed land a sneak attack by sea?
- how long before Qin launches space ship (which would be the real heartbreaker)?

I'm feeling much more comfortable now I have Rifles, Grenadiers, Cannons, and Cavalry.

I'd guess that you've got a couple more centuries before Qin would launch, but I could be wrong.

I don't know how long until Khan gets infrantry and artillery, but I'd definitely tech toward Artillery next, because with enough Artillery, you can take down any modern army.

I hit a bit of a snag when Saladin and Khan had a defensive pact for a while. This slowed me down and now I am in this position:

155745

Advice?

The game is now really a question of whether I can take out Kublai Khan from here without everything falling apart. Some of his other cities were chock full of up to 20 units, but for some reason this city seems to have been emptied out a bit. He does have a very big army around somewhere of SAMs and Artillery.

With enough Artillery, you'll be able to take him out...just be sure that you're building artillery in a lot of your cities, not just relying on your cannons being promoted.

Edit: If you declare war on him and don't invade, then you might be able to smack his huge army really good by hiding your artillery a couple tiles beyond your border with him...then when he moves in to attack, bring them up on rails and pummel him good.

Thanks to a web of defensive pacts, I am now at war with most of the world . . . . . .

155788

It's been so long since I have fought a modern war that I have forgotten the main principles.

Oh yeah, Khan nuked two of my cities! First time I've ever had that happen to me.

Take out his uranium! lol
I've never been nuked in Civ...I'm sure I will sometime, but I'm not looking forward to it.

Good news is you look like you are nearing the end of the tunnel! :)

Things are certainly going slowly though. War weariness is colossal since someone passed the Universal Suffrage resolution so I can't be in Police State any more. Hope somebody passes the no nukes treaty soon.

Qin and Mehmed still refuse to talk to me, which is a bit frustrating, because I'm toast if they decide to land a massive invasion force somewhere away from Mongolia where all my armies are.

Biggest thing that slowed me down was when I took two of Khan's cities a while back and thought he had no armies left (due to how easy it was to take his cities). But he then showed up with a huge stack of artillery and gunships and took them all back and wiped out my stack (including my good old Medic III chariot). I had to go for peace and rebuild until I got flight, rocketry, and industrialism to hit back again. The other problem with war at this age is that there is so many centuries of culture to fight through to get anywhere near the enemy cities. You take out one city and the culture from the next city springs out to engulf your new city. Artillery take 3-4 turns to get to the next target.

I saw a Docking Bay get built a couple of turns ago so I do need to outrace Qin and Mehmed's rockets. Maybe this war is a blessing in disguise in that it will slow down their space race.

And the game takes SO long to get through a turn now. I have to sit through several minutes of endless "Your farm was pillaged by a Mongolian fighter" and "Qin has reduced the defense in Madras to 5%".

You have railroads, so don't be too afraid to get backstabbed.

The culture-problem is very annoying, you should keep on going once you're at war to get all his cities asap.

The only problem with being backstabbed is that AI seem to be able to land tanks and attack cities all in the same turn (I'm sure I have never been able to do that). Qin razed one of my cities in an attack like that, but luckily it was only 4 tanks so I was able to mop it up. Losing that city shouldn't be a big deal because land seems to be the main hurdle in this one, rather than population (although pollution and war weariness have put most of my cities into starvation so maybe population will be a problem).

@Harbourboy: It's a lot of fun reading your progress. I also must say that you are getting a lot better at [civ4]. I recall reading your posts when you first came to our little home. Excellent job and I look forward to reading your "I need advice on my deity game, please" posts. ;)

155833

Getting there. Most recent blunder was making peace with Khan when I was actually trying to get peace with Mehmed and Qin. That held me up for another 10 turns. Then Khan showed up at one of my cities with a stack of 14 artillery. Where the heck did they come from? It took all my gunships, tanks, and marines to defuse that.

Well I finished my first attempt at Emperor level, Huayna launched in 1874, never thought I would last that long.

I gave up on domination when it was obvious Ragnar was going to be to strong for me on my own continent, so tried to get my first diplomatiic win, everyone liked me better than Mehmed.

Epic speed takes far too long to play though! Can't see myself getting a domination win at this level.

I so nearly got the win too, if Hannibal hadn't changed from free market to state property when he was +10 with me I'm sure he wouldn't have abstained. I made a major error anyway, bribed Mehmed to attck Hannibal so that Mehmed would be unpopular (he was pop leader), then stupidly traded with him. I'll know better next time, found going for a diplo win interesting anyway. I think I'll go back to trying to win at Monarch after WOTM11.

[quote] That's what I thought 20 games ago, but now I can see that it is possible, even for duffers like me. I am only about 5 turns from the end of my game. Either I will take a couple more of Khans' cities and win, or Qin will use his Space Elevator to complete his last 3 spaceship parts and win. Regardless of the outcome (although a loss would be heartbreaking now), this game has proven to me that victory in this gauntlet is not only possible, but very achievable.

What you need is some spies I expect Harbourboy. That was all that was preventing Huayna launching his ship in my game, until she got caught (and another -1 meant that Huayna abstained rather than voting for me).

I found a diplomatic attempt alot easier than going for domination, every time I got a counter to Ragnar's units and was about to invade he got the counter to them (he had rifles, I got grenadiers, he got cavalry. The I got cannon and he got machine guns. Then I got rifles and he got infantry, etc.). Good luck and hope it works out well for you Harbour. Back to playting Monarch for me until I win though I think, might try my new diplo skills out to get that win under my belt though.

Well it looks like I will miss out on this one due to a technical glitch on my laptop's civ4 install.

It's one thing knowing that you had a good win and a good date, but seeing your name on the official list is much more satisfying. :D

Oh well, good luck to other punters for this gauntlet.

Just submitted my third win on this gauntlet. Still improving. I've gone from 1770 AD to 1340 AD to 1268 AD.

This last go-around was not such a good map. I was centrally located, wasted lots of time moving my armies back and forth across the land to attack AI's. I'd prefer a start on the edge of the continent, then I can head generally in one direction.

Still time for some more attempts. :)

1268 AD? That's insane!

1268 AD? That's insane!

Still in last place... :crazyeye:

I'm waiting for someone like Lexad or Grey Cardinal to give it a go and go real low. Or Moonsinger if she decides to give it another run.

Still in last place... :crazyeye:

Let's look at that in a different aspect. How about instead saying your in second place, when the other player (not for sure if they stated who they are) is in next to last place. See, now it doesn't look so bad! :D

Hopefully (fingers crossed) within the next 24 hours, you won't be in last place any more. Although if Qin completes 3 space parts in the next 3 turns, I am likely to throw my PC out the window.

Spies are not an option because all my cities are focused on building military. No Scotland Yard (actually I only got Communism about 12 turns ago). I don't even have any boats to carry a spy (because I figured at this level, you either need a really really good navy, or you just don't bother having any navy). So I'm running blind on where Qin is at with his last pieces.

My void entry was 485AD. A lucky map and lots of sweating between turns trying not to screw up the grand start I had been given.

Let's look at that in a different aspect. How about instead saying your in second place, when the other player (not for sure if they stated who they are) is in next to last place. See, now it doesn't look so bad! :D

Moonsinger already 'fessed up to it. I must admit, I like the idea of being second in a gauntlet where Moonsinger was only able to score second from the bottom! :mischief:

155852
155853

20th time lucky. Glad I didn't stop after the setbacks in attempt #19....

Thanks to all for the encouragement and advice!

:rockon:

Congrats, Harbourboy ! Up for another try ?

Congratulations!

congrats Harbourboy! :goodjob:

I'm going to attempt this one again as soon as I have time...I don't think I'll have much shot at beating my 1575AD Minor time...its about 3 centuries faster than my usual space race :D

155852
155853

20th time lucky. Glad I didn't stop after the setbacks in attempt #19....

Thanks to all for the encouragement and advice!

:rockon:Not being someone that finds Emperor an easy level, I offer my congratulations as well. I am glad your persistance has paid off. :goodjob:

Also, with only 4 players submitting so far, I would say that you are an inspiration to the rest of us who have so far chickened out. :mischief:

155852
155853

20th time lucky. Glad I didn't stop after the setbacks in attempt #19....

Thanks to all for the encouragement and advice!

:rockon:

Excellent job! :clap:

Way to hang in there Harbourboy. :goodjob: I too am impressed, I would have bailed long ago and started another game. You've earned your spurs.

I hope to join you in the rarified company of finishers in this gauntlet.

Cheers, guys. I'm always up for a challenge. But the main points for me out of this were:
- Emperor level is hard but not impossible
- you don't need MapFinder, slingshots, gambits, choosing opponents or obscure tactics to win at this level
- I used no unusual tactics other than more or less constant war
- I built no wonders
- I didn't have any sort of fantastic starting map full of gold
- I had no early copper so I beelined to Iron Working and then built endless swordsmen and never really looked back from there
- I can now see how earlier finishing dates could be possible because I played nowhere near an optimum game
- You can learn a lot by listening to other players.

Now onto Immortals on Immortal in GOTM! No worries!

Now onto Immortals on Immortal in GOTM! No worries!Definitely a Civfanatic. :) Either that or a masochist. Or is it redundant to call a Civfantic a masochist? :mischief:

:goodjob: Congrat, HarbourBoy

Congrats Harbourboy. I've failed 8 times and don't think I have the stamina for 20.

Here's try #9's start after a little exploring. Ever wish you founded your city one tile from where you did?:rolleyes:

http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/116334/Civ4ScreenShot0026.JPG

Congrats Harbourboy. Don't know whether I'll be having another go at Emperor for a while. Playing a Monarch game (normal speed, seems really fast after playing epic speed) currently. If I win that game (would be my first Monarch win) I may have another bash at this.

20th time lucky. Glad I didn't stop after the setbacks in attempt #19....


Outstanding!!!! :goodjob:

You continue to hold the award for stick-to-it-ness and perseverance. In true Geezer tradition, I'm gonna tilt one back in your honor tonight. :cheers:

Might have one myself, Hawk!

Padraig, that looks the Californian gold rush all over again.

I wonder how many people will end up completing this gauntlet. I'm 4th at the moment (woohoo!)

I had a blast but I'm exhausted now, and probably shouldn't have rushed into GOTM20 so quickly because that's a completely different kettle of fish. Oh well.

I submitted, too. Finished in 1909AD. Played with random AIs. Could have won much earlier, but Napoleon gave me a hard time in the end. The minute I killed the second last AI on my continent he declared on me and I wasn't yet prepared. Well, bad luck. I will give it another try on the weekend. :)

Good work, markh. You beat me by 8 years. Now 3 Geezers have submitted. It's a Geezer-a-thon.

Congrats Harbourboy. I've failed 8 times and don't think I have the stamina for 20.

Here's try #9's start after a little exploring. Ever wish you founded your city one tile from where you did?:rolleyes:

http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/116334/Civ4ScreenShot0026.JPG

Mh, you have switched to another text style?

If you have so many goldtiles, you should split this to 2-3 cities and plan for every city to have enough foodtiles, else you wouldn't be able to work all those goldtiles.

If you have so many goldtiles, you should split this to 2-3 cities and plan for every city to have enough foodtiles, else you wouldn't be able to work all those goldtiles.

Unfortunately it turned out to be a small continent, 4 AIs, no copper nearby and the closest iron was settled before my settler reached it. I guess it was just a tease.

Good work, markh. You beat me by 8 years. Now 3 Geezers have submitted. It's a Geezer-a-thon.


Yep! I agree, great job markh. Guess I'll need to tip back yet another one in honor of a fellow Geezer. :beer:

The sacrifices we need to make... ;)

Well, I've joined the geezer group, at least as a geezer, not a Geezer.

1685 finish - I had a decent start, had 4 of 6 Ai on my continent and had it to myself before 1000 AD but it wasn't big enough so I had to tech to Astronomy and Chemistry to take a large island away from Bismark. It took six days to play so I think it will be my only submission, gonna go have some fun with space and get in on the other gauntlet.

Well, I've joined the geezer group, at least as a geezer, not a Geezer.

Well done! And close enough to a Geezer for me to tilt back yet another! :cheers:

The newest versions of the Vanilla and Warlords HOF Mods are not legal for this Gauntlet. We will however move up to them with the next Gauntlets.

Well done! And close enough to a Geezer for me to tilt back yet another! :cheers:


Thanks Hawk, feels like a pretty select group. I hope that's one of the finer brews that you're tipping back :cheers:

Do you guys mind if I register as a Geezer lurker? That sgotm looks like a lot of fun.

Just submitted a 1703 victory, finally, 10th attempt. :twitch:

I only recently "discovered" the hall of fame gauntlet challenges -- this major has been absolutely insane. I have never won emperor level before. I probably have tried at least 20 different attempts, but keep getting too far behind in techs. Harbourboy and others have inspired me to keep trying. I may finally win my current game.

I picked nine opponents who were not financial (except Mansa), protective, industrious, or started out with mysticism. I also turned off tribal villages, since the AI starts out with free scouts and was beating me to all of them. Finally had some good luck this game. I teched to bronze working, then somehow managed to still found polytheism just after building my second city near some copper, which made that city a religous capital and greatly helped to expand its borders. With the help of some marble, I built oracle to get alphabet, which was very helpful to help keep up with techs early on. I then built a bunch of axemen and went to town, while making a beeline to construction, then COL, then bureacracy. It is now 1316 AD, and I have taken out three civs on my continent, with two remaining (Napoleon and his vassal Peter -- we are about equal power and have tech parity (knights, musketmen, trebs), but he has a bunch of cities on ice and tundra, so I have better production). It looks like my continent should just be big enough for a domination victory.

Now is the time to declare war with Napoleon (which means his vassal as well). Short window of opportunity before he gets chemistry/grenadiers (I am trying to get to Cavs, but tech is going slow). Of course, most of the four civs on the other continent are ahead in tech and have astronomy, so I probably will have to deal with a sneak attack from one of them. It's time for bed, so I will pick this up tomorrow and see if I can finally do this, before the time expires (and, more importantly, BTS comes!).

My first domination win at Emperor level. Finishesd in 1166 AD, good for 3rd place so far. Must have been very lucky with the map.

Good work, Padraig and Miraculix.

Don't give up, RickWJ66!

My time would have been faster, but I didn't eliminate any Civs until 1112 AD. I may have had aggressive Civs turned on, I don't recall, between 300BC and 1000AD I didn't declare a single war myself, my actions were completely dictated by the ai. Then I took control and trampled over them relatively easily.

880BC Declare War on Asoka
595BC Peace with Asoka (heavy losses)
310BC Declare War on Asoka
85BC Isabella declares War on Korea
70BC Peace with Asoka (attention to Isabella)
425AD Gandhi declares War on Korea
440AD Peace with Isabella (attention to Gandhi)
650AD Roosevelt declares War on Korea
655AD Peace with Gandhi (attention on Roosevelt)
950AD Peace with Roosevelt
980AD I win race to Liberalism
1040AD Declare War on Asoka
1112AD Asoka eliminated
1184AD Declare War on Roosevelt
1310AD Roosevelt eliminated
1328AD Declare War on Gandhi
1460AD Gandhi eliminated
1472AD Declare War on Isabella
1496AD Isabella eliminated
1520AD Declare War on Cyrus
1577AD Cyrus eliminated
1616AD Declare War on Washington
1697AD Washington eliminated
1703AD Victory.

I still am :lol: on Gandhi's declaration of war on me. The only stack he sent was longbowmen/pikeman (one of each). They ran away after one pillage. :lol::thumbsup:

Whew! Did it. My first Emperor victory. 1847 date. My continent was big enough, but I had to spend about 30 turns after wiping out my last appointment cranking food production so I could grow my population to sufficient size to trigger. The cities had been kind of small with all of the whipping and civil unrest/war weariness. I went to each city and told it to emphasize food production. I ended up going for biology and then medicine/environmentalism to help. Didn't think I could pull it off . . .

I meant "opponent" -- not "appointment" -- too braindead now

I meant "opponent" -- not "appointment" -- too braindead now
One of the buttons at the bottom right of posts is an edit button. We tend to frown on pointless double-posting here.;)

Do you guys mind if I register as a Geezer lurker? That sgotm looks like a lot of fun.

The team is happy to have you join, assuming you've stayed clear of the other teams' threads up to now :) . You'll need to go to the SGOTM sign up thread to register your presence.

I already know the update will be delayed one day. You have 36 hours from this post to finish and submit for this Gauntlet.

Gauntlet concluded. HOF Page Results: (http://hof.civfanatics.net/civ4/gauntlet.php?show=major&gauntlet=50&submit=Go)
Rank Player Date Score
1 The-Hawk 815 AD 208859
2 Moonsinger 1040 AD 153293
3 Miraculix 1166 AD 184339
4 denze 1559 AD 105629
5 erikthecelt 1685 AD 88662
6 Padraig 1703 AD 80675
7 RickWJ66 1847 AD 52693
8 markh 1909 AD 28196
9 Harbourboy 1917 AD 28569

Congratulations to the winners!

I was a little disappointed this Gauntlet since my finish date missed out due to technical difficulties.

But I certainly enjoy the collective competition and the discussions that go on!

Good job

Unbelievable finish, Hawk. I am looking forward to great things in SGOTM 5.