I would like to see several more ships in the game as well as the ships gotten with sailing to be able to carry passengers and the Lanun who start with seafaring to start with either a ship or the ability to build one at the start. Also wouldnt mind seeing another seafaring civ

Giving the Lanun access to an early coastal exploration 'boat' with Seafaring (STR 1, Move 2, Can Only Defend, upgrades to Galley) would be a good idea.

On a side note then the uncovering of Pearls really should be moved to Fishing - one civ having sole access to a natural source luxury resource is a bit odd.

They have crappy farms, non-coastal lanun cities are nerfed. How often are you going to have the same access to land based luxury resources without building interior settlements with far lower production levels? On small coastal maps or archipelagos sure, but a standard pangea? Odds are half the luxury resources will only be accessible through massive culture production and razing of enemy settlements in your way unless you build inland. They have a unique, generally plentiful supply of otherwise unobtainable trade goods to barter for some of the ones they can't reasonably get.

i have a thread somewhere back inthe forum that has a bunch of naval sugestions

@psychoak:
I am not really opposed to them (or anyone) having a unique resource available, but I can find no reasonable argument why only they should be able to dive for Pearls.

Perhaps a better solution would be if they were given a unique Harbor (or Lighthouse) building that also produced 1 uniquely crafted (sea related) resource each (like Fruit of Yggdrasil). They would then have 1 guaranteed unique resource more to trade with for each coastal city they found.

One contender might be Tyrian/Imperial Purple Dye (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tyrian_purple) made from marine snails which was (and still is) a very rare and expensive dye in the realworld, mainly due to the fact that producing it is very labor intensive.

Perhaps the Lanun were the only culture to discover how to harvest the pearls from the clams, while others saw wierd looking shells. I would personally like a coral resource. It would look pretty cool.

I wouldn't mind seeing the sea expanded a bit. It's a rather boring place atm, since most coastal resources are only for health and most of the tiles are generally the same (Food/Commerce). Sea-based cities can't be particularly productive (barring high pop + whip), which is quite an annoyance.

As for other sea-based civs, I wouldn't say no. Maybe another civ with a heavy interest in magic and using the waves to their own means? But with three civs currently incomplete, I would rather see them finished up before starting on any others.

I agree. Adding production from the sea would be a good idea. I think that sort of upgrade should be limited to the Lunan civ.

I'd like to see the Lanun having UBs like those of both Portugal and the Dutch in BtS (for extra gold and production from water tiles), and the ability to blockade for all of their ships (maybe even their workboats). Personally, I think their Harbor should grant the HN promotion to all ships they build, but only if declare nationality is changed a little. Personally I think it should work more like a vampires feed ability than a spell, i.e., it shouldn't call canCast(caster) or doCast(caster) so that it could be used at anytime, even just before or after attacking. Also, I think HN units should be able to capture other units,at least if you are at war with their owner. Lastly, I would consider giving the Boarding Party promotion to the Black Wind and possibly their late game ships, giving the Lanun total control of the seas.

As I have said before, I think that the Pirates cove should become a unique Fort which can still grant the Pirates cove promotion to ships on the tile, but would more importantly be able to blockade a large amount of the surrounding seas on its own, or greatly increase the blockade range of ships on the tile.

Coral seems more like a terrain feature than a resource, sort of like forests for the coasts. It might be interesting as a feature that was good for boosting a tile's food, gold, or production, but had a high chance of making ships crash an sink (a possible new special event, which could be weighed so that it doesn't happen to the Lanun as often or at all). I'm not a huge fan of adding more resources, just because I'm not sure if the team has solved the problem imiting their total number to 50 yet, and I don't want to lose another of the current ones. Could the current dyes resource be made harvestable with either plantations or fishingboats, but only the Lanun could build fishing boats over them?

in fact the issue with pearls is that they are counted as luxury ressources for each civ when building the capital fat paradise lands.
many Ai (at least 2 in each game with 9+1 civs and enough sea) or even the player land with a capital that have no good ressource save those pearls they cannot even see and will never be able to harvest. the player can move its settler if seeing he is placed with 15 surrounding water tiles with no sea ressources (sign of heavy pearls field) but the Ai never moves, leading to crappy capital sites.

I propose either :
-pearls being discovered by no tech. harvest needs 'diver unit' available at seafaring for lanun (lanun diver) and only available at [sailing/or engineering (making scubas) or medecine or trade] for other civs. so lanun can harvest pearls way earlier. And lanuns having a lanun diving improvement gives +1hammer +5 commerce (instead of +3 commerce for other civ) (making them as floating goldmines with 2f 1h instead of 3h).

-pearls discovered at fishing for all, + the solution proposed by CyberChrist with lanun harbor giving a free ressource only they can have. (and harbor being granted for free on city foundation if tech is known and city on the coast)

Crazy suggestion- Pearl resource removed from map, instead Lanun get special workboat, it can choose whether he wants to harvest Clam or Pearls from Clam resource. Also it could choose to harvest deep sea fish from fish resource instead. Basically like mana nodes- You decide what to harvest, depending on improvement.

crazy... yes.. but very ingenious !!!
but maybe difficult to mod..

Well mana nodes work almost the same way...


EDIT: Instead previous idea... To make it a bit more simpler (For AI, if nothing...) When Lanun harvest Clam, they get Pearls as well, in addition to Clam. When they harvest Fish, they get one extra Deep Sea Fish as well etc.

,Coral seems more like a terrain feature than a resource, sort of like forests for the coasts. It might be interesting as a feature that was good for boosting a tile's food, gold, or production, but had a high chance of making ships crash an sink (a possible new special event, which could be weighed so that it doesn't happen to the Lanun as often or at all). I'm not a huge fan of adding more resources, just because I'm not sure if the team has solved the problem imiting their total number to 50 yet, and I don't want to lose another of the current ones. Could the current dyes resource be made harvestable with either plantations or fishingboats, but only the Lanun could build fishing boats over them?

Coral could be used as a luxury resource. I have often (well, not often) seen it as decoration. In Eldest it is held by a god, and is seen as an exotic objects. I'm not saying a new resource, but as a replacement for pearls, which I've always associated with the clam resource.It's just a suggestion, and I doubt it will ever be implemented.

Dual-use clams would require the resource slot that 'undifferentiated shellfish' would get, the one that 'bivalves culturing pearls' would get,and a third for 'bivalves harvested as food', so it comes up against the wall of 'the game only allows this many resources'.

I'm in the camp of people hoping that wall comes down, and sooner rather than later, but I'm not really in much of a position to more than hope at it..

You could get around it by having Lanun get a Lanun harbor that gives happiness in addition to health from clams. It would be an implied pearl rather than a resource. They would get a more limited benefit, since it couldn't be traded to others.

You could get around it by having Lanun get a Lanun harbor that gives happiness in addition to health from clams. It would be an implied pearl rather than a resource. They would get a more limited benefit, since it couldn't be traded to others.

personally i like that idea, would remove a resource that is mostly insignificant (i'd rather have stone back than keep pearls) and fits with the new theme of adding unique buildings. might even be able to remove the Seafaring techs and just give Lanun exploration to start and add +1 movement to the Lanun Harbour.

yay 3000

You could get around it by having Lanun get a Lanun harbor that gives happiness in addition to health from clams. It would be an implied pearl rather than a resource. They would get a more limited benefit, since it couldn't be traded to others.

personally i like that idea, would remove a resource that is mostly insignificant (i'd rather have stone back than keep pearls) and fits with the new theme of adding unique buildings. might even be able to remove the Seafaring techs and just give Lanun exploration to start and add +1 movement to the Lanun Harbour.

yay 3000
I like these two ideas personally.

I wouldn't mind seeing Pearls be dropped for another sea-based resource. Either one that helps sea-based productivity or maybe a military one? (sea-based animlas that can be harnessed for war maybe?)

yay 3000

Congrats!!!
+1
(Just joking)

Anyway I rarely (I must say never) traded with Lanun to get Pearls. Maybe it's because I play lots of land maps, or just coincidence. But still in year of playing I never got Pearls. Maybe it's Lanun AI mistake?

actually we do have one open resource spot. just remove useless the metamagic resource

Didnt read all, but is it so that only Lanun can see (and use) pearls? That's lame. Imagine if only Khazad could see gold...

Metamagic won't be useless forever. It will probably be one of the stronger spell spheres, and only the Amurites would start with it.

It would be more reasonable if only the Khazad could see Mithril, but that would be overpowered.

well metamagic is useleess untill the bts conversion and when that happens the resource limit is gone

Of course, the BtS conversion is already underway and .23 is done, so this is only relevant to modmods. I don't actually think an undifferentiated clam recourse is necessary. You could just keep the current one and make the "Lanun Diver" improvement, which would require the seafaring tech to build to change it.

Actually, you could probably also make the undifferentiated raw mana become metamagic mana, but give the type of node that harvests it in its pure form require a higher tech or be Amurite only.

I don't know, as far as the game with lanun goes, pearls seem quite good, and they seem to provide a good balance, lanun are expected to head in a sea-tech heavy start and considering how high on the tech tree cottages are the extra gold garnered by pearls is all that keeps them afloat if they do neglect going for cottages.

the extra gold garnered by pearls is all that keeps them afloat if they do neglect going for cottages.

pun!!!

personally i like perals and the only thing i dont like the m is the kurioite jeweler that cant get to its full potential if the lanun are not in the game

Is there really a limit on the number of resources? There are several mods to regular Civ (like Amra's) that add lots more resources, so it would seem this limit could be raised. I would really like to see more resources in FFH with the varied civs could be able to make use of them in different ways (such as being able to construct a unique building or recruit a unique unit). The search for these rare resources could add a quest element to the game and add interest to resource trading.

Is there really a limit on the number of resources? There are several mods to regular Civ (like Amra's) that add lots more resources, so it would seem this limit could be raised.
If i remember correctly thats a problem with the font set. So unless you change the font set you cant add more than there are curently.

How about keeping the seafaring restrictions for land based cities (or making them even worse!) and greatly expanding Lanun work boat abilities.

Dredging, sacrifice work boat to cut channels into coastal squares within borders to grant a road like effect to your ships and enemy/neutral pirate ships

Fishing boats terrain upgrade on empty tiles normally destroys a work boat for no gain but have a small (1%-5%) chance of discovering a new sea resource

So a late game Lanun civ would have hugely productive high trade coastal cities surrounding a pangea but only a small toehold inland. It could make them astoundingly unbalanced in Archipelago games though. Similar to Khazad in highland maps.

First post so tell us if I'm bordering on moronic territory