First, you guys rock. I have turned the points I got from buying over priced gas into a gift card for an over priced big box store to get BtS because of you guys.

Second, the questions.

1. Is it probable that .23 will be released before BtS?
2. (related) Will there likely be a version .24?
3. Has the work you have done on AoI given you enough material/code base knowledge to put out .30 quickly?

A request. Once the final version of this comes out I would like it if Kael could produce for us some d20 SRD based information so that I may run a campaign in Erbus.

Keep up the good work. FFH is nearly as addictive as NetHack, but with better graphics and more frequent updates. :goodjob:

First, you guys rock. I have turned the points I got from buying over priced gas into a gift card for an over priced big box store to get BtS because of you guys.

Second, the questions.

1. Is it probable that .23 will be released before BtS?

Yes. Because once BtS releases I'll be working on conversion. So 0.23 will be the last version for vanilla. Im going through it right now trying to get it as polished as possible because it will probably be around for a while for those unfortunates who cant get a hold of BtS.

2. (related) Will there likely be a version .24?

Yes, it will be a version of 0.23 converted to BtS. I will need lots of playtest feedback to help me find errors. I hate to say it will be a real version. I expect the conversion to be difficult and for there to be a lot of crashes and issues introduced, 0.24 will allow us to try to get those resolved without waiting for 0.30 (trying to add new features and switch codebases at the same time will make troubleshooting impossible).

Players will probably better off sticking with 0.23. But it depends on how buggy it ends up being.

3. Has the work you have done on AoI given you enough material/code base knowledge to put out .30 quickly?

No. After we get converted the team and I will go into real design work for "Shadow". We already have the brainstorming and high level design, but making that into a coherent fun game is time consuming.

A request. Once the final version of this comes out I would like it if Kael could produce for us some d20 SRD based information so that I may run a campaign in Erbus.

Keep up the good work. FFH is nearly as addictive as NetHack, but with better graphics and more frequent updates. :goodjob:

I dont know what Im going to do after FfH, we still have a lot left to go. But I would like it to be something the team can stay involved in, in my mind thats the true strength of FfH. When we finally close the team and I will probably get together to decide what the next step is. Probably another game mod, but I dont know if that will be FfH or even Civ4.

I dont know what Im going to do after FfH, we still have a lot left to go. But I would like it to be something the team can stay involved in, in my mind thats the true strength of FfH. When we finally close the team and I will probably get together to decide what the next step is. Probably another game mod, but I dont know if that will be FfH or even Civ4.

Whatever you do when FfH is complete, just keep in mind that at this rate, I will probably still be looking for a job. :P

I dont know what Im going to do after FfH, we still have a lot left to go. But I would like it to be something the team can stay involved in, in my mind thats the true strength of FfH. When we finally close the team and I will probably get together to decide what the next step is. Probably another game mod, but I dont know if that will be FfH or even Civ4.

Wherever you go you and the team have deservedly developed a huge fan base. We will likely follow.

As long as i'm gushing i just want to say that i think the fact that you, Kael, present as a humble, sincere person when talking about FfH, the team, and the fans is a big reason for the mod's success. Yes, the ideas are great. But it takes a rare personality to bring together a team of such amazing talent and keep them motivated through the long haul. I admit when i first saw the plans for FfH2 i thought, Wow... ambitious. It'll never get finished, i'm just happy they got FfH (1) done. Now i have every confidence this mod will come to a fantastic completion, and even if disaster strikes the current version is so far past my wildest expectations that i could never complain.

Kudos to the whole team!

- feydras

Wherever you go you and the team have deservedly developed a huge fan base. We will likely follow.

As long as i'm gushing i just want to say that i think the fact that you, Kael, present as a humble, sincere person when talking about FfH, the team, and the fans is a big reason for the mod's success. Yes, the ideas are great. But it takes a rare personality to bring together a team of such amazing talent and keep them motivated through the long haul. I admit when i first saw the plans for FfH2 i thought, Wow... ambitious. It'll never get finished, i'm just happy they got FfH (1) done. Now i have every confidence this mod will come to a fantastic completion, and even if disaster strikes the current version is so far past my wildest expectations that i could never complain.

Kudos to the whole team!

- feydras

Seconded! :goodjob:

Any ETA on 0.23? I've only got normal Internet until this Sunday, after that I'm going home and there's dial-up in them thar hills! :(

Any ETA on 0.23? I've only got normal Internet until this Sunday, after that I'm going home and there's dial-up in them thar hills! :(

Yeah, it looks like its going to be coming out on the 13th.

Kael, will .23 be a major revision over .22?

I have that lousy 10-12 hours of download time to think about and if it is not that much different that .22, I might skip this upgrade.

Still, I don't know, as I won't be able to get BtS until I am back in the US in the
Fall. :(

Whatever you do when FfH is complete, just keep in mind that at this rate, I will probably still be looking for a job. :P
You should hop across the border. There's work a-plenty here. But I suppose you might be aiming for something better than shop assistant?

Yeah, it looks like its going to be coming out on the 13th.

Friday the 13th? Will there be Jason instead of Orthus?

Or some Knights Templar?

IIRC last year we had FfH coming out at Friday the 13. and it was great as always and whats more I didn't have ANY problems with downloading :)

Sarsin, do you have friend or some other way to DL it?

You should hop across the border. There's work a-plenty here. But I suppose you might be aiming for something better than shop assistant?

I might just do that sometime, many swedes do. Good pay in norway, but everything is expensive so I'd have to live cheap and spend it when I come home. (Pay of loans etc :()

Live cheap, hmmm, that sounds familiar. Oh, wait. Welcome to the life of a student. And our "Minister of Knowledge" (I know, it really does sound like Newspeak) forces us to work in addition to studying (so we can afford the cost of living), and then complains we don't spend enough time studying. Go figure.

IIRC last year we had FfH coming out at Friday the 13. and it was great as always and whats more I didn't have ANY problems with downloading :)

Sarsin, do you have friend or some other way to DL it?

I guess you are referring to .23 vs. BtS.

Yes, I can go to an internet cafe here in Bangkok. They have pretty good download speeds. That is how I got .22. It took about 2 hours and cost me about $4.00 US.

That's what I will probably do, although I am still playing Light and don't mind continuing to play .22 Fire games. :)

The main download for .23 might even be a bit smaller than usual, though there will be another optional dl for expanded wonder movies and more music tracks.
Whether or not it is a big change, you can look at the changelog and decide yourself.

Kael is mumbling that it may be the smallest DL in a long time. I, for one, welcome our new two-part overlords!

Just curious: What do you see in BtS that prompts you to do the port? Is it the engine itself, or are there some new features you plan to utilize?

Just curious: What do you see in BtS that prompts you to do the port? Is it the engine itself, or are there some new features you plan to utilize?

Both, full details here: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=229557

Here are 10 off of the top of my head:

1. Improved AI (even if there was nothing else I would upgrade just for this).
2. Fix for the MAF crashes.
3. Firaxis added a lot of FfH functions to the main game (quick combat for spells, preffered religons, hidden nationality, help tag, feature attack bonus, dynamically adjust unit strength, support for dynamic leader switching, etc).
4. Civ specific unit art. Bringing the unit art definitions into the SDK allows us to play with them (I could, for example, change a units art if it becomes undead, gains an imp, etc).
5. Simplified formation and Lsystem.
6. Events and quests.
7. Modular XML will make life so much easier for those who want to mod FfH.
8. Mod specific interface.
9. Diplomacy options that players can opt out of.
10. Espionage.

Its no coincidence that we have been waiting for "Shadow" to add diplomacy, quests and espionage functions to FfH. It also probably makes sense why we haven't invested much work on hidden nationality and AI work.

We've always planned for FfH to be on BtS (which is why we never considered moving to Warlords). I just didn't expect BtS to be as cool as it is when we origionally planned it.

4. Civ specific unit art. Bringing the unit art definitions into the SDK allows us to play with them (I could, for example, change a units art if it becomes undead, gains an imp, etc).

Would this allow so-much-wanted glowing swords when they are enchanted? :please:

Would this allow so-much-wanted glowing swords when they are enchanted? :please:

I doubt it. The problem is that to do that sort of work you would need to add a glowing sword to every unit in the game that could use it, then make it invisible. With all the units we have it would be a ton of work for a very minor effect.

I could see using something like that in Civ RPG where you are dealing with a smaller group of "player" units. But we will probably never go through all the modeling work to display equipment on units.

I doubt it. The problem is that to do that sort of work you would need to add a glowing sword to every unit in the game that could use it, then make it invisible. With all the units we have it would be a ton of work for a very minor effect.

I could see using something like that in Civ RPG where you are dealing with a smaller group of "player" units. But we will probably never go through all the modeling work to display equipment on units.

Trust me, I'll do that if it's possible and if I have the time, energy and/or manpower to implement it.

I doubt it. The problem is that to do that sort of work you would need to add a glowing sword to every unit in the game that could use it, then make it invisible. With all the units we have it would be a ton of work for a very minor effect.

I could see using something like that in Civ RPG where you are dealing with a smaller group of "player" units. But we will probably never go through all the modeling work to display equipment on units.

Ahhh, I see, I misinterpreted that it would allow to change parts of unit graphic (Like adding imp to whatever unit you please as a separate entry, or making any unit transparent, transparency being an added effect, or adding glow where weapon should be... Such mechanism would only need 1 extra graphic for glow, 1 for imp... But nevermind me) :crazyeye:

Trust me, I'll do that if it's possible and if I have the time, energy and/or manpower to implement it.

What I'm wondering- if such thing was added, how much would it overload the game? Say it's done for melee only and not for warriors.

What I'm wondering- if such thing was added, how much would it overload the game? Say it's done for melee only and not for warriors.

There are actually already units that sort of do this, workers. Workers have a variety of equipment that their model displays or doesn't display based on the situation. The only difference is we are trying to have that situation be the existance of a promotion instead of an animation.

I would like it if at least Orthus's Axe, Spellstaffs, and a few other yet-to-be-added objects could be added to their graphics.

Is it necessary for unique features to be added to all the units that can get the promotion, or could you just have the unique graphics for a couple of them even though many more could get the promo?

I would like it if at least Orthus's Axe, Spellstaffs, and a few other yet-to-be-added objects could be added to their graphics.

Is it necessary for unique features to be added to all the units that can get the promotion, or could you just have the unique graphics for a couple of them even though many more could get the promo?

You could just do a few if you wanted.

Will you be implementing advanced start in shadow or ice?

Will you be implementing advanced start in shadow or ice?

Oh yeah, forgot about that. That will probably go into shadow.

Both, full details here: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=229557

Here are 10 off of the top of my head:

1. Improved AI (even if there was nothing else I would upgrade just for this).
2. Fix for the MAF crashes.
3. Firaxis added a lot of FfH functions to the main game (quick combat for spells, preffered religons, hidden nationality, help tag, feature attack bonus, dynamically adjust unit strength, support for dynamic leader switching, etc).
4. Civ specific unit art. Bringing the unit art definitions into the SDK allows us to play with them (I could, for example, change a units art if it becomes undead, gains an imp, etc).
5. Simplified formation and Lsystem.
6. Events and quests.
7. Modular XML will make life so much easier for those who want to mod FfH.
8. Mod specific interface.
9. Diplomacy options that players can opt out of.
10. Espionage.

Its no coincidence that we have been waiting for "Shadow" to add diplomacy, quests and espionage functions to FfH. It also probably makes sense why we haven't invested much work on hidden nationality and AI work.

We've always planned for FfH to be on BtS (which is why we never considered moving to Warlords). I just didn't expect BtS to be as cool as it is when we origionally planned it.

Wait a minute...

This looks like to me - that the Firaxis team not only likes the FFH team, but seemingly has taken the ideas and literally created an expansion FROM it.

Would there even be a BtS without FFH? It strikes me that everything this team (and community) hath implemented (or desired) for FFH2 is being implemented for BtS.

I think that's awesome, and quite the compliment, if true. BtS looks like a "vanilla" overhaul of Civ IV, derived directly from Fall from Heaven 2.

-Qes

I think most of what you are seeing is just that great minds think alike. I did create a "Modders Wish List" when BtS began, but I didn't do it because I wanted the stuff for FfH (I already had most of the things in FfH). I did it because I thought other modders would want to use those features. Some of the things in that list ended up in BtS, some things didn't.

Impaler was a huge bonus too. That started in this thread: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=192744. Where I was pushing for modular XML functionality. Impaler and I started talking about it so I requested Firaxis grant him access to BtS and the rest is history.

So although we were definitly very privledged to be able to offer ideas for BtS, we were just a part of a large group of talented people. In my opinion Blake and Impaler did more to make BtS what it is than I did.

And opening up a game for this kind of modability is the best thing a developer can do to evolve their game.

They might have something like 1600 professional man hours put into their game a week, but when you compare that to the at least maybe hundreds of thousands of man hours put in by amateurs modding their game, they have to come up with something good. :P