I enjoy being more adanced so Ican can smash other units with more advanced weapons. I want to know how to make the scientific trait from Civ 3 so I can make this easier.

play as Elizabeth :D

Financial civs have a significant economic advantage in Civ4.

Scientific: +80%:hammers: for Labs, R.Institutes, and Libraries. +10%:science: +2:health: in all cities.
Diplomatic: +1 point in diplomacy. Leaders attack you less.

Scientific: +80%:hammers: for Labs, R.Institutes, and Libraries. +10%:science: +2:health: in all cities.
Diplomatic: +1 point in diplomacy. Leaders attack you less.

And I thought what people are wanting to do with environmentalism was overblown... 80% production increase?!?!

Sorry, typo. I meant 50%.

That sounds better. The only thing that bothers me is the +2 :health: and +10% :science: . Only the research bonus should be granted otherwise that obsoletes the Expansive trait. Also, it seems like 10% research might be a bit too much... After all, moving up just 10% on the research slider often costs a lot of gold and getting that much for free seems a bit unbalanced. That's probably why the trait was dropped in the first place.

As for Diplomatic, the bonuses for that trait actually looks a bit weak considering it would have little effect on other civs view of you, 1 point rarely does, and the fact that it would not effect human players at all.

Revision: +5%:science: for Scientific.
+2 diplomacy points for Diplomatic.














:borg: :borg: :borg: Is that to your liking, game designers? Make the expansion NOW.:borg: :borg: :borg:

The revision for the Scientific trait is good though it would probably require game time testing to determine true balance.

The Diplomatic Trait on the other hand I think would require something besides points otherwise it would be useless in games with actual people in it. Perhaps something like bonus gold from trade and or transactions. After all, in order to truly play the role of a political ruler would require a lot of political deals. Perhaps the bonuses for peaceful trade could be applied to a certain extent to other human players as well to act as an incentive to avoid armed conflict.

Revision: Diplomatic gets +1:traderoute: per City. +1:culture: for every Trade Route you have in a City. Cities more likley to generate GM.

That does sound a lot better except for the GM part... Because of Corporations GMs are probably the most powerful GPs in the game, aside from Great Prophets if you founded a religion that is.

Revision: Screw the GMs.

Question.... Just how much gold do trade routes bring in and wouldn't they have to be foreign trade routes to be of any use to a political trait leader?

The amount trade routes bring in depends on distance and the amount in the Cities' treasuries. They could be domestic. Govenors and all that crap.

A cap might be a good idea to keep too much money from coming in and unbalancing games. Also, along these lines there probably should be a minimum bonus to ensure the trait won't be useless.

Just for the sake of preventing misunderstandings it might be a good idea if you put the amounts in :commerce: instead of :traderoute:. Also, there needs to be some bonuses for the country trading with the Political trait leader to act as an incentive to stay peaceful.

Actually, that would be rather unfair for the game. I guess you should be able to pick the free trade route. That seems fair. The value of a trade route should not be regulated. How 'bout AI leaders give you +3%:commerce: when you trade Tech?

What do you mean? Taking the number of beakers for a tech, putting the number through some equation to get a gold value and giving a percentage of that to the Political Leader Trait for trading the tech?

I mean like trading gold for the Tech.

I am going to be making Financial be something around +10-20% :gold: and +1 :commerce: per trade route. Instead of what it is now. (so far that's the idea anyways.)

Then I am bringing Scientific back with +10-20% :science: Maybe something else. But +10-20% :science: is pretty strong. Especially when they end up getting cheap libraries and Universities.

I have also considered allowing financial a free Merchant per city w/ market and Scientific a free scientist per city w/ library. Also, Industrial getting a free Engineer per city w/ a forge. But the engie seems too overpowered. Still not sure if I like that route. I am trying to figure out how I want to shift financial and bring in scientific. I also wouldn't mind toying with expansive and Industrial.

play as Elizabeth :D

Pericles is also pretty good as he's the only philosophical leader that has cheap libraries. He can get Great Scientists quicker than anyone else.

In Total Realism the Scientific Trait meant +15% http://forums.civfanatics.com/images/smilies/civ4/science.gif, but I don't like it because it has no strategy. It's just a clear bonus. I'd like +1 http://forums.civfanatics.com/images/smilies/civ4/science.gif per specialist instead.

Doesn't something already give you that bonus?

Doesn't something already give you that bonus?
Well, representation does that. But your logic is screwed. Aqueduct gives +2, oh noes, expansive is already done! :rolleyes:

Hero, I think it would be best to stick with the last configurations that you decided on for the scientific and diplomatic traits.

Scientific: +5% :science:
Diplomatic: every city gets one extra trade route

The trade route bonus actually seems pretty balanced now that I think of it.

+15% does sound like it would be boring, but is it a noticable boost for you Swedish guy? The problem I have with +1 per specialist is it forces a best economy on you. As under scientific, a CE would make the trait entirely worthless all game.

That sounds better. The only thing that bothers me is the +2 :health: and +10% :science: . Only the research bonus should be granted otherwise that obsoletes the Expansive trait. Also, it seems like 10% research might be a bit too much... After all, moving up just 10% on the research slider often costs a lot of gold and getting that much for free seems a bit unbalanced. That's probably why the trait was dropped in the first place.

As for Diplomatic, the bonuses for that trait actually looks a bit weak considering it would have little effect on other civs view of you, 1 point rarely does, and the fact that it would not effect human players at all.

10% :science: is not as great as you think it is. Keep in mind, 10% on the slider means you're channeling 10% of your entire economy into research, which is in turn multiplied by the research modifier. +10% :science: means the city has the effect of an extra monastery, which is not a whole lot.

It would be awesome to have. Say, does anyone know somebody who's making the next Expansion?

The problem with a Scientific trait is that the cheap buildings are divided up between Creative and Philosophical and the Financial bonus overlaps with it.

If anything, I'll put it on my wishlist for Civ5: make a more distinct Academic (to stick with Civ4-style trait names) and Financial trait.

10% :science: is not as great as you think it is. Keep in mind, 10% on the slider means you're channeling 10% of your entire economy into research, which is in turn multiplied by the research modifier. +10% :science: means the city has the effect of an extra monastery, which is not a whole lot.

True, but you are talking an extra monastery in every city. That adds up to quite a bit. Also, just think about how much it costs to move up from 80% to 90% or even another 10% up to a full 100%. Just think about that large amount of money that would effectively be granted free. Also, just think of the impact 110% would have on ancient marathon starts when no one has research buildings. That would amount to a huge difference of the course of a full game that would likely destroy balance in the game altogether.

It's not the same thing--you just don't add the city research bonus onto the science slider. The Science slider affects your commerce, and the city research bonus operates on the commerce as given from your slider.

It's not the same thing--you just don't add the city research bonus onto the science slider. The Science slider affects your commerce, and the city research bonus operates on the commerce as given from your slider.

That's what I was trying to say. I guess I wasn't clear enough.

We should bring the Plagues into the next Expansion.

That's what I was trying to say. I guess I wasn't clear enough.

I understood you, for what its worth.

It just seems like the Civ4 system doesn't have room for a Scientific trait--it's purpose has been divided up amongst three other traits. In Civ5, I'm hoping the difference between Philosophical, Financial, and the new Science trait (I don't like keeping the name Scientific...the best suggestion I have seen is Academic) should be integrated into the game from the start.

Academic sounds more like a Trait than Scientific. Thanks for suggesting that name, Antilogic.

Academic sounds more like a Trait than Scientific. Thanks for suggesting that name, Antilogic.

It's not quite my suggestion. I think the World of Legends people came up with it first. However, I have adopted it as my preferred name for a new scientific trait.