View Full Version : The New Foriegn Minister.
Jul 10, 2007, 04:10 PM
OK lets get this rolling.
I want to establish a permanent tech alliance with someone. It would involve us trading either a beaker for beaker or tech for tech. I would prefer tech for tech if they are higher in gnp than us.( advantage us). If we are higher in gnp..then beaker for beaker.(advantage us) My goal is to make sure we get more out of the deal than they do but at the same time make them think its an equal partnership. I can spin it both ways to who ever we decide on, then its up to them to see if it will go as we want.
So to get started I need the following answered.
1. IS this a good idea? We could get burnt if we choose the wrong team.
2. So who do you propose we should do this with?
3. Who has given us more deals?
4. who would you be opposed to dealing with on any level.
Once we come to some sort of agreement amongst ourselves i will contact the team that we agree on. If they do not agree to it I will go on to the next team. If neither of them go for it...then we may need to reconsider our approach.
ALSO...if anyone has a "friend" on the team we choose we may try a behind the scenes talk to see if their team is interested. Sometimes the behind the scenes diplo works better.
Jul 10, 2007, 04:59 PM
We already have a firmly established one with CBR
Jul 10, 2007, 06:03 PM
Correct BUT is it a fully operational one..last I remember was it was a short term thing I want to get them to commit to a game long tech deal and establish a more permanent alliance. Unless its already been established since everything I read looks inconclusive past this current war. they mentioned possible co-operation...I just want to firmly establish it.
If that what everyone wants then I will go forward contacting them and iron our tech deal. At which time I will see if they are interested in a complete military and tech alliance till game end. Once thats happens we need to see who they think is the next target and then plan their demise after the current war is over.
ALSO...we can establish a three team alliance if we can get CBR to agree to it.
Jul 10, 2007, 07:34 PM
So who would be the third team?
Jul 10, 2007, 08:12 PM
The provisional deal i had worked out with CBR was, Col, compass, alpha and math for philo+machinery. This was in the agreement that we got Col, compass and alpha first. We would gift the others when we got the chance, i think i asked someone to send an e-mail but i dont think they did in the end. Should probably catch that up-turns havent been moving very fast again.
Jul 10, 2007, 08:16 PM
Who do you think the third should be?
I am opposed to BAT being that team thats my only NO vote. Also the third should be someone both us and CBR can work with. We should probably check F4 and see if they have traded with any one else. that would be a start.
ALSO BC who or what address did you use for that trade is the team general address the one I should use?
Jul 11, 2007, 04:19 AM
Just the one that's in the gmail, angelocossa or you can use demarchi i spose.
Jul 11, 2007, 05:53 AM
ok I will contact them...if we get a response please forward it or let me know so I can get it. This first contact will be to establish communications and I will contact all the teams. It wont happen today as I have a long day at work, 12 hours of electro-fishing...yeah my life sucks. ;) If I had internet in the boat that wouldnt be a problem...
Jul 11, 2007, 05:58 AM
I am fine with CBR; they're quite far away and shouldn't be able to harm us.
Maybe the german team (can't remember the abbreviations) could be the third party in the alliance.
Jul 11, 2007, 11:09 AM
GWT? they already look to have quite a firm tech alliance with EVG.
Jul 11, 2007, 04:48 PM
OK so they would be out...any other suggestions or just a two way. If I get some time tonight i will send out a message.
Jul 11, 2007, 05:32 PM
We wish to remain quite neutral in the conflict between you and GCA for
But, as we have good relations with you, we have decided to give you the
information concerning Buffminister : the city is empty.
Nevertheless, we've seen many keshiks moving in this area during the
last turns. So we don't think this information will be very usefull
because these units could defend the city very quickly. That's up to you !
We accept your proposal for the exhange between machinery and feudalism.
We should have feudalism in 7 turns. What about you ?
We'd like to add a condition to this exchange : both teams are not
allowed to trade the technology received during 40 turns.
Last thing : we're now allowed to trade alphabet. Are you interested ?
Why not alphabet against theology for example ? It's unbalanced but our
first trade was in your favour (88 beakers) and we could restore the
balance with a later trade. Feel free to discuss about that.
So if we do manage to drop 6 units outside we should in theory have enough to quickly raze the crap outa it. gotta kill that warrior before it spots us like.
About the deal, we could speak to CBR about it but then that deal wouldnt work out so well with us (the one with CBR as we'd lose alpha which would make the deal even more unbalanced).
Also, galahadba, CBR's person i have been talking too and their turnplayer has apparantly been in an accident. I've sent demarchi a mail asking him how he is and stuff.
Jul 11, 2007, 08:19 PM
OK BC...(thanks for the posted message)
Whats our deal with CBR? If we honor their deal can we then get BAT to agree to something else. We have to throw BAT a bone here to keep them interested in working with us even if we arent really interested.
We know from first hand experience that a civ that feesl you arent trading with them sometimes attack you when given an opportunity. So I would like to workout a trade with BAT.
Jul 11, 2007, 08:34 PM
Well that deal with cbr was only in pre lim stages, i was going to talk with angelo (galahadba) more about it but i havent seen him since. I guess because of the accident.
Jul 11, 2007, 09:18 PM
Cool...if we can arrange something to both teams that is my wish. Mention to them that I will be also involved in diplo and feel free to contact either of us.
Jul 11, 2007, 09:55 PM
Well i dont have anyone other than angelo on msn so we'll have to go through official channels now, which for cbr is demarchi.
Jul 13, 2007, 05:19 PM
Rob asked me to summarise all the diplomatic agreements we've made in game so far, please let me know if I've missed anything past present or pending.
450 BC: Mysticism/Polytheism/Preisthood/Monarchy for Metal Casting (760 for 672)
Alliance vs. GCA
375 BC: Masonry/Monotheism/Hunting/Theology for Metal Casting (1104 for 672)?
Trade embargo vs. GCA
Jul 13, 2007, 09:41 PM
Is something permenant with COG feasable, or even desirable?
Jul 14, 2007, 10:04 AM
They seem to be isolationistic, so it is hard to get anything from them. One thing we need to do is make sure that we can get calender when we trade around Machinery. BTW, has anyone sent message telling others that we are indeed researching Machinery so that we can start to get some good deals around, of course, with the proviso of not trading to GCA?
Jul 14, 2007, 04:37 PM
I havent sent anything yet... currently on my way out the door to a party so maybe tomorrow or later on tonight i can compose a message...unless someone else wants to. Just post here if you do.
Just mention that we are "near completion" dont really let them know that we are near starting. All in the spin of any situation....
Jul 17, 2007, 08:03 AM
From our email, EVG have given us their world map.
Jul 17, 2007, 10:04 AM
Ok, we are very badly behind in tech now compared to the lead runners heres what i propose.
We get in contact with BAT and CBR (the other laggers behind along with COG but its just impossible for them to talk back!) and try and arrange some form of deal where we simply share every single tech we come in to contact with, this means that rob and 1889 you'll need to get some e-mails off soon.
Jul 17, 2007, 10:17 AM
OK... I will contact BAT and CBR. I am at work so if someone can give me a hand with what we have and what they have I can contact them prior to going home.
I know you want a complete sharing but it may look better to ease them into it if we have more beakers or pretty close to what they have.
Jul 17, 2007, 10:32 AM
Just a simple broachinf off the subject is all that will be needed (would you like to start a three way alliance as we're all doing crap?) then let them get back to us with any details.
Jul 17, 2007, 10:33 AM
Keep in mind that if they are some of the weakest civs, then attaching ourselves to them is to make ourselves a bigger target for elimination.
Jul 17, 2007, 10:41 AM
make it a scientific alliance instead of a military one then
Jul 17, 2007, 11:43 AM
Hi I hope your game is progressing as you had hoped. I am the new Foriegn Minister for Civfantics. We have been thinking about this idea for some time and we are curious if you would like to start a 3 team tech alliance. In this alliance we would share all techs we currently have and we would co-ordinate in research directions to further all of our civs advancement. We would like to form a three way tech alliance with BAT and CBR being the other members. If you look at the game, you will see that the 3 of us are being left behind technology wise. I have sent a similar email to the other team and will let you know their decision. This technology alliance is for technology exchange only, we can discuss military protection and joint military ventures at a later time. We are not currently interested in military ventures at this time since we are currently involved with one at this moment. Please contact me via this email address so we can discuss this further..
BC you mentioned something about machinery to trade.....was that just to these two or others.
i will send it after some feed back
Jul 17, 2007, 11:50 AM
First of all no tech trading allowed with COG as neither of us have Alphabet.:cry:
We have nothing to trade CBR but they have Meditation (119) Alphabet (448) and Archery (89)
We can trade Theology (747) to BAT (Qwerty) and the can trade Alphabet Archery and Compass (598) They also have Meditation and Code of Law (529) but can not trade them this turn.
GCA is the only team with Horse riding but of course we are at war weith them.
We can trade Monarchy (442) to trdae to EVG who have everything Meditation Code of Law Math (373) Alphabet Paper Archery Compass (598) and Machinery (1046)
GWT hase all the same techs in adition to Monarchy so we have nothing to trade them.
I donít recall which techs we got in trade so we may not be free to trade everything.
A good start might be Theology to BAT for Alphabet, Archery and Meditation, then Monoarchy to EVG for Math.
Jul 17, 2007, 12:04 PM
What happened to easing them into it?
From what I can glean from the scraps of diplo in these threads, we traded Metal Casting to CBR in 375 BC for Masonry/Monotheism/Hunting (357 for 672). If that is so they owe us 315 beakers so should just give us Meditation (119) and Archery (89).
Would you be interested in trading for Thoelogy (747)? We would be willing to trade for Alphabet (448) Archery (89) and Meditation (119). The difference is 91 beakers in your favor but we hope that future trades will provide an opportunity for us to make up thius difference.
So Long Sucka’,
‘Sup? A-ha…a-ha…Say that’s great but the reason we contacted you was to see if you were interested in trading for Monarchy (442)? We would be interested in Math (373). Since the trade is 69 beakers in your favor the least you can do is give us some gold.
Come on G just make the trade already,
May need a little polish on those.
Jul 17, 2007, 12:22 PM
I spoke to Emp about a monarchy trade ages ago, they werent very up for it because what with the no wines/pyramids/big score they didnt need for it to grow anymore. They might have changed their minds now though.
About theology, we made an agreement with CBR not to trade it for twenty turns but im not quite sure if thats over yet. That was the other tech that they gave us 1889, so we're infact in their debt right now.
me and Angelo had a provisional machinery/philo for math,col,alpha and compass worked out but then he had an accident so im not sure if it got passed on to the team.
Jul 17, 2007, 12:53 PM
So this was the real deal: Masonry/Monotheism/Hunting/Theology for Metal Casting (1104 for 672)?
175 AD should be 20 turns since we got Theo. Thats just 3 turns away.
Jul 17, 2007, 01:24 PM
No there was something else to even up the beakers. Can't remember what though- we're still slightly in their debt though.
Jul 17, 2007, 02:31 PM
So should we send what i wrote or work on individual deals.
Jul 17, 2007, 03:17 PM
Send that to CBR, however the one to BAT leave out the name CBR, CBR are still our primary ally and if they decide against it we must go with them :)
Jul 17, 2007, 04:00 PM
OK when I get time tonight...cant use gmail at work.
Jul 17, 2007, 05:39 PM
Just talking to emp/lord park now. They're interested in letting us bulb philo and us trading for it.
Deal proposed is- math, CoL and alpha for Philo. The first three in advance and with a non trade on agreement regarding philo for twenty turns.
This deal in itself isn't especially magnificent but we could use philo as a massive trading chip- especially with GWT- we could get Civil Service. As they have equal beakers etc.
Jul 17, 2007, 07:01 PM
Except isn't our GS still 17 turns away and can he even lightbulb philo all the way or do we still have to do so research to finish it up? Hopefully we could get Math and Alph in the next few turns with the deals outlined above and use Philo for other trades.
Jul 18, 2007, 05:29 AM
No, :confused: our GS is only one or two turns away and in every single game i've played a GS has been able to bulb philo fully.
Jul 18, 2007, 10:08 AM
Sounds good. math/CoL/Alph (1343) for philo (1196).
Messages sent to BAT and CBR.
I've started new threads for communications with other teams. It will be just a small amount of extra work but so helpful in keeping our diplomacy organized. Please use them.
Jul 18, 2007, 10:37 AM
The only drawback with the deal is all three of the tech we're getting nearly everyone else has. So the real value to this deal is what we can get from GWT for philo. I, personally think we should push for civil service.
Jul 19, 2007, 07:21 AM
We don't have iron *yet*, so macemen will not be an option. And there aren't many tiles to irrigate and build farms on..
Jul 19, 2007, 08:32 AM
Macemen can be built with copper also but we build samurai which require iron anyways. I'm not talking about farming or macemen though, im refferring to the civic we gain from it :)
Jul 20, 2007, 05:02 AM
oh... but I don't think there are that many tiles that need irrigation
Jul 20, 2007, 05:52 AM
About the offer for the galley, we are in no condition of giving gold, if you can borrow it so we can send our naval attack sooner and give it back after it we will be very gratefull, if not we will have to actually wait untill we build it ourselves.
Galahad of Teotihuacan
From CBR, i think its more worth us just keeping it tbh.
Jul 20, 2007, 06:03 AM
BC..thats a call you have to advise us on. You have the master military plan and have a feel for whats needed. So I for one vote to do what you want with the galley. You will contact them and say we need it or something.
Jul 20, 2007, 06:07 AM
Well we're going to have to finish building it at somepoint, im not sure tbh. I sent a small note to gwt saying we would have philosophy soon, perhaps one of you diplomats could write up a nice one?
maybe also send it to a few other teams also.
Jul 20, 2007, 07:54 PM
I am glad to say that the people of CBR had accepted it, we will join the Technological Alliance and we think that the 3 of us will have only to gain from it. Principally considering that GCA seems to be going well with technological exchange, if our nations get much behind then we will have problem to fight with old units.
Galahad of Teotihuacan.
Jul 21, 2007, 07:53 AM
OK so now we wait for BAT...
We need to reply for them to send us everything they got in exchange for everything they have. Just send it as an in game trade, BC.
After that we can then look around and see if we can make a deal with someone else. OR do you think we should not shop the new techs that our allaince has.
/re: patching....I will dual install so that I can have a working copy of this game for the diplo side. I have too many PBEMS to finish up before ditching the old versions.
Jul 21, 2007, 11:13 AM
Well we've already agreed a deal with EVG now for a couple of CBR techs, another thing is if we do it quickly work out a different one?
edit- it think i may have even requested the techs from them last turn.
Jul 21, 2007, 11:34 AM
ok....then lets just see how it flows from now on. We should send CBR our techs to solidify the deal.
Aug 19, 2007, 09:10 PM
Do you guys want me to float a peace offering to them or not.
Aug 19, 2007, 11:27 PM
I think we should offer copious apologies and some sort of trade we can give them Philosophy for archer and Horse riding. It’s a generous offer but it may get them to postpone revenge plans.
Maybe also a settler for the rest of Machinery.
I think it would be dangerous to simply end the war without trying to establish some other relationship.
Aug 20, 2007, 06:11 AM
I agree with 1889, though i dont think we should go as far as a settler, we could invite them to keep a unit in Victory for 100 turns to moniter whether we have units etc.
Aug 20, 2007, 08:44 AM
OK any other suggestions...I want to get this sent out this turn if possible
Time has come for us to discuss peace. We have seen the error of our warring ways and those team mates have been forcible removed form office. We would like to offer you a tech in exchange for a tech of yours. You would get the benefit of the more expensive tech. Say philosophy for archery and horse back riding. IN addition we will like open borders and let you station a lookout in our city Victory to make sure we keep only a small garrison force in it. IF both of these deals are acceptable we can then proceed to discuss longer term options before its too late for both our teams.
The NEW foriegn minister.
Aug 20, 2007, 10:08 AM
Seems good, still havent heard back from CBR so i don't know how to proceed as i don't want our team to appear disloyal.
Aug 20, 2007, 10:42 AM
I was thinking this situation calls for a little more ass-kissing:
Dear Lucky and GCA team,
It looks like you were right after all about history repeating itself. GCA has once again put CFC on the ropes. In our last exchange you offered to negotiate to stop the bloodshed and we hope that in spite of our past behavior you are still willing to do so.
CFC has little to offer you but we have made plans that will soon give us Philosophy. As a sign of our new attitude toward Yellow Destiny we will offer that technology to you in exchange for just Archery and Horseback riding. Archery is merely for defense and we have no horse so although they are military techs they in no way reflect continued belligerence on our part. In fact we would also like to offer you a one sided open border agreement. One in which you may enter our territory to assure we are not developing another invasion, but in which we will finally trust the good intentions you have attempted to show us and not send any of our own units into GCA lands.
Trusting in your honor,
Aug 20, 2007, 11:36 AM
OK i like your better 1889.
NOW Do we wait for CBR to respond or do we just send it. IF CBR has a massive invasion force on the way then we dont want to offer peace yet. So we really need to get them to respond.
Aug 20, 2007, 11:52 AM
I forgot, we just got archery from our tech partners. Lets just ask for horse or math instead.
We can't offer peace without first hearing from CBR.
Aug 20, 2007, 11:55 AM
OK sounds good. So we wait.
Aug 21, 2007, 02:32 AM
I don't see why we should give them a trade in their favour if we can hold on to our cities and units. Just mutual peace.
I don't like the clause that says that we will not send any units into their lands. We may not be able to keep the promise.
Aug 21, 2007, 02:41 AM
Because they are more advanced, have the right resources, higher production and GNP I think. Under those curcumstances mutual peace is just a cease fire until they can build a keshik/catapult stack and reestablish peace on their own terms.
Aug 21, 2007, 11:13 AM
Ok offer mutual peace then we can give techs if we need to. That way we dont have to give out anything we dont have to.
Aug 24, 2007, 12:52 AM
I'd much prefer if we just offered peace and the city Victory. That city will only provoke them and we don't really need it.
Aug 24, 2007, 04:27 AM
I'd much prefer if we just offered peace and the city Victory. That city will only provoke them and we don't really need it.
I don't think we should just give them the city like that. It is a potential commerce city. And we need it to sustain our economy while the rest of our cities are building units.
Aug 24, 2007, 08:35 AM
That city will provoke war no matter what. We can't afford any more war.
Aug 27, 2007, 02:44 PM
Something needs to be offered sooner rather than later either way.
Aug 27, 2007, 03:15 PM
Should we just ask GCA what their terms would be?
That way we can haggle a middle-of-the-line treaty.
Aug 27, 2007, 04:16 PM
Still no word from CBR or have they not been contacted yet.
We've all had time to post our suggestions and the few of us that have haven't found much of a consensus so I say that Robboo is foreign minister should just decide how it will be handled. Then write or delegate the writing of necessary emails.
Aug 27, 2007, 07:55 PM
Sorry..been busy with a new job.
I have no clue how to proceed. I just dont have a feel for them. I think we need to lose "Victory" if we are to secure lasting peace. BUT then again, we cant secure anything at this time. SO I am askign if you have a suggestion and how we should write this post it. Its time more people voiced their opinions.
I also may resign simply due to the new job keeps me on the computer for 8 hours and I dont know if my eyes can take more of it in forums. this office needs someone who has time and my time has vanished. 1889..I have no objection to you serving the remainder of the term as head of this.
I wish the new job let me play more but it doesn't due to data security reasons.
Aug 28, 2007, 08:59 AM
Everyone has voiced their opinions already....
I barely have the time these days to be turnplayer let alone turnplayer and diplomat i've been for the large majority of the game.
Aug 28, 2007, 10:20 AM
I'll send some messages when I get home from work.
Sep 06, 2007, 04:51 AM
Considering that we now have Philosophy, we can trade it around.
I want us to try and Get Feudalism and possibly Literature, from the French, and either Civil Service or Calendar and Construction from EVG/STG. If we are able to get just Civil Service from EVG, then we should try and Construction and Compass from COG. That is my wish list from getting Philosophy.
Sep 06, 2007, 06:32 AM
We get lit and compass from CBR anyways as per our share everything deal.
We should also be recieving fued in a few turns from BAT who will be trading it for machinery.
Next turn we have to gift GWT philo and in ~7 turns they're giving us music.
I agree on the attempt to get CS from EVG in exchange for philo.
The only other people we could trade with is GCA.
Sep 06, 2007, 12:12 PM
I'd like to check the save before sending emails but the new turn is an rar file. I dosen't show up in the saved games folder when I try to open it.
Sep 06, 2007, 01:08 PM
you have to unzip it.
Yeah its annoying demarchi sending them in that way, if you still can't do it send me a PM with your email in and i can email you the un-rar'd save if you want?
Sep 06, 2007, 01:59 PM
I guess I don't have the proper software to unzip. PM sent for now but please give me some clues so I can do it myself next time.
Sep 06, 2007, 07:46 PM
I sent a link to the software i use in the e-mail :)