UPDATE

I have added the UU stats to this page of the thread. they start on post 34 :D enjoy :drool:

http://forums.civfanatics.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=161203&d=1190947076


here is a teaser to get the fun started.


http://i95.photobucket.com/albums/l158/ringworldwu/Civ4ScreenShot0011.jpg

reserved ;)

Looking cool Garret!

thanks i hope to generate some discussion here about the mod.

one idea im toying with, changing the culture point system to a "mass media" system. I want to portray sides using whatever media available to spread their culture, including TV.

what do you think of that?

I just counted a rough unit count. for now, it looks like there will be over 78 units.

48 of those units will be UU's, specific for each civ with civ flavored abilities.

hey sniperrabbit! would you do one interface backround for my tech tree in SR3? I'm gonna do the other one :)

I can try, do you have any guideline ? Or some laboratories will be good for your mod ?
By the way, I like the new intro screen very much. :)

hmmm. i want it to be on the revolutionany theme, though. thats all.

im glad you liked it. i have great respect for your art style :)

Like Civilization Revolution ?!!! ;) :lol:

I've collected some materials and will assemble them later.

I can't wait to see what you have!!

Not much time available but While I work can imagine and find concept. I hope to get it done by the end of the week.

take your time bro. i dont even have enough money to buy BtS yet and am still using developer version (now defuct) so it will be some more weeks till i release the alpha.

Tell me if you need any civilopedia or any other "easy" text-based stuff to do.

But pretty much I can only really do civilopedia

Tell me if you need any civilopedia or any other "easy" text-based stuff to do.

But pretty much I can only really do civilopedia

Actually, this is something I always need help with :)

I plan on there being 70+ unit in this mod, so there will be significant increase of civilopaedia entries.

also, the older entries could have been formatted better (IMO since i did most of them), so if you are proficient in formating the text strings of civ4 xml, (making them paragraphed, boldface in places, and consistant).

I plan on recycling any entries from 2.0 that are still relevant in 3.0.

Actually, this is something I always need help with :)

I plan on there being 70+ unit in this mod, so there will be significant increase of civilopaedia entries.

also, the older entries could have been formatted better (IMO since i did most of them), so if you are proficient in formating the text strings of civ4 xml, (making them paragraphed, boldface in places, and consistant).

I plan on recycling any entries from 2.0 that are still relevant in 3.0.
Just send me a PM of anything you want a civilopedia entry for then.

that will start later in the process (after i get a XML framework)

unfortunately for me, i havent been able to spare the jink to buy BtS yet :( , but as soon as i get it, i will get the xml going. then, once i get the errors out, it will be a race to fill in teh blanks.

Does this mean you can either play as a "liberal" or "conservative" U.S.? Or will you only include neo-cons for the American leader roster?

Just make sure to include the Vegas strip and Area 51 in Las Vegas this time! Maybe Hoover Dam (renamed 3-gorges) as well.

And my music. You must include that And thank me for it in the credits. :cool:

Does this mean you can either play as a "liberal" or "conservative" U.S.? Or will you only include neo-cons for the American leader roster?

Yes, actually. No longer will players be forced to be george bush!!

However, the ideology will not be different. So even if you are not a neo-liberal (and you might not be if you are actually reading this) you still have to suffer with that ideology. (you could choose not to spread it)

Just make sure to include the Vegas strip and Area 51 in Las Vegas this time! Maybe Hoover Dam (renamed 3-gorges) as well.

And my music. You must include that And thank me for it in the credits. :cool:


sure thing bro. i want at many wonders as possible!!

do you mean music that you wrote?

here's another screenshot teaser!
http://forums.civfanatics.com/downloads//rpgrebel_2c1.jpg

:)

Really excited about this, and i am ready to write civilopedia entries and/or brainstorm ideas for stuff.

heck yeah!! good to hear from you again. if you ever feel like taking a hand at art or anything else let me know too :)

sure thing bro. i want at many wonders as possible!!

do you mean music that you wrote?

No. While I've actually written a badass song called the "Angry Mob Anthem," it's all in my head rather than on paper, and of course, nobody has performed it yet.

I meant the stuff I suggested in the Revolutionary music thread. I think I emailed you "Revolution Calling" by Queensryche, and "Run to the Hills" by Iron Maiden. And I don't care if some of us have heard it too much already, "American Idiot" definitely deserves to be in this mod.

As for what else should be in, I'd say put in a lot more infrastructure buildings, like maybe a movie theatre.

I also still think that each ideaology squat/branch should offer benefits to the city it's built in. My ideas were

Conservative Branch: Lowers Upkeep
Neo-Liberal Branch: Increased Traderoute Yield
Nationalist Branch: Happiness for that city increased.
Anarchist Squat: New Units built in city recieve 1 Free Experience Point.
Communist Squat: City Saves Extra Food
Autonomist Squat: Increased Defense in that City.

So why not build them all? Depending on what civics one picks, certain ideaology buildings cause unhappiness. For example, a Conservative Branch will make your city unhappy if you have a Planned economy, a Communist Squat decreases a city's happiness if you have a market economy, and a neoliberal branch will cause unhappiness if you have a civic related to economic nationalism like the Zapatistas fight for (I'm not sure such a civic is in the game, maybe add it).

No. While I've actually written a badass song called the "Angry Mob Anthem," it's all in my head rather than on paper, and of course, nobody has performed it yet.

I meant the stuff I suggested in the Revolutionary music thread. I think I emailed you "Revolution Calling" by Queensryche, and "Run to the Hills" by Iron Maiden. And I don't care if some of us have heard it too much already, "American Idiot" definitely deserves to be in this mod.

As for what else should be in, I'd say put in a lot more infrastructure buildings, like maybe a movie theatre.

I also still think that each ideaology squat/branch should offer benefits to the city it's built in. My ideas were

Conservative Branch: Lowers Upkeep
Neo-Liberal Branch: Increased Traderoute Yield
Nationalist Branch: Happiness for that city increased.
Anarchist Squat: New Units built in city recieve 1 Free Experience Point.
Communist Squat: City Saves Extra Food
Autonomist Squat: Increased Defense in that City.

So why not build them all? Depending on what civics one picks, certain ideaology buildings cause unhappiness. For example, a Conservative Branch will make your city unhappy if you have a Planned economy, a Communist Squat decreases a city's happiness if you have a market economy, and a neoliberal branch will cause unhappiness if you have a civic related to economic nationalism like the Zapatistas fight for (I'm not sure such a civic is in the game, maybe add it).

awesome bro. i think i will implement those buildings. wait till i publish the huge unit list (don't worry, 80% are UU's :D )

unfortunately there will be little pop music of any kind in this version of the mod. im looking specifically for independant music (seriously indy music or underground or local, not Death Cab for Cutie :( )

so far the bands that will be in are Existi, Asleep in the Sea (if i can find their album), Wax Vultures, maybe even some january taxi. these are local Arizona bands, so you will have to do your homework to find small local bands.

Just wondering if you could add new factions like Islamists fundamentalists. The story behind them would be that as North America split apart Osma sent various men to establish a regime to fight the Great Satan. UU would be terrorist and leader Osma. Also what are you going to do about corporations?

Just wondering if you could add new factions like Islamists fundamentalists. The story behind them would be that as North America split apart Osma sent various men to establish a regime to fight the Great Satan. UU would be terrorist and leader Osma.

Sorry, No. But the main infantry UU for USA will be "Veterans" and they will still be wearing their desert camo.

Also what are you going to do about corporations?

well, ive entertained the ideas of replacing them, or even leaving them out. also i have thought about being silly and modeling them after real corporations (ie: Microsquash)

awesome bro. i think i will implement those buildings. wait till i publish the huge unit list (don't worry, 80% are UU's :D )

unfortunately there will be little pop music of any kind in this version of the mod. im looking specifically for independant music (seriously indy music or underground or local, not Death Cab for Cutie :( )

so far the bands that will be in are Existi, Asleep in the Sea (if i can find their album), Wax Vultures, maybe even some january taxi. these are local Arizona bands, so you will have to do your homework to find small local bands.

Okay, maybe American Idiot is a little too popular, although it certainly can't be considered to be pop music along the same lines as NSync and stuff. But what about the music I mailed you? That's not pop, really. The bands are somewhat known, but so are the Sex Pistols and Sublime; that didn't stop you from including them.

Oh, and I think I'm going to make a Black Panter Unit for this mod. Should be easy enough.

what i mean by indie, is that only locals to your area typically even know about a band, and they have never, ever signed with a national recording label. as a matter of fact, it may even be impossible to get their albums, and some times you have to get them off of myspace, msnmusic, ect.

What im trying to say is that all of the music that was on the previous versions that i could be sued over has to be out. im not gonna f*** with the RIAA if i don't have to, and they seem to be ascendant for the time being.

i also plan on implementing the entire soundtrack into a separate patch (the "music patch"). you would have to download it separately.

i also would like to know the copyright status of stuff like the rolling stones and edwin starr. coz i don't want to lose the oldies as well as the pop tunes.

what i mean by indie, is that only locals to your area typically even know about a band, and they have never, ever signed with a national recording label. as a matter of fact, it may even be impossible to get their albums, and some times you have to get them off of myspace, msnmusic, ect.

What im trying to say is that all of the music that was on the previous versions that i could be sued over has to be out. im not gonna f*** with the RIAA if i don't have to, and they seem to be ascendant for the time being.

i also plan on implementing the entire soundtrack into a separate patch (the "music patch"). you would have to download it separately.

i also would like to know the copyright status of stuff like the rolling stones and edwin starr. coz i don't want to lose the oldies as well as the pop tunes.

I honestly think music shouldn't be your biggest worry out of all the things that might get you in trouble for this mod! I bet the CIA's reading this right now! :lol: On a side note, I actually was under the impression that peer-to-peer file-sharing was controversially but cleanly ruled to be legal. The case also resolved that people who talk on forums count as peers, so that means us. On the other hand, the ruling may have just been in California, so I don't know. Fortunately, I can mod myself, so I can just add whatever music I want.

Also fortunately, I guarantee you that all the obnoxious media companies who currently hold copyright claims will soon be rendered as dead as kerosene by the Internet. I think that instead of sueing sites like Youtube for money, they should just make a court case to get stock in Internet companies. Because that's the only way they'll survive in the long run; trust me.

Now, I wanted to ask you a few other things about the mod. One, you said each Civ could have several different leaders. However, I didn't think that was actually possible in a scenario, so how would you make that work?

Secondly, you also said that while you could play as several leaders, you would be forced to have the same ideaology. This is not necessarily true, as in BtS, some leaders have Favorite Civics as well as favorite civics.

Also, what are the punk unit's stats going to be? And will your armed worker/armed guy in business suit be in the game?

yeah, actually the disgruntled citizen fights right alongside the punks in the same unit formation. :) thought you'd all like that

as for the ideology, i might try to implement the option where you pick the religion when you aquire it (but as of yet i havent even used it in BtS, still just trying other features) that would allow for alternate ideologies. im sure we'll figure a way to make it work.

i agree with you about copyright, except im just so much an anarchist i don't want to use thier music. maybe i will work with a list of bands that would never sue me....

What about the multiple leaders available for each Civ? Do you have an answer for that, yet?

no we need to come up with that answer as a community

so far:

USA
Bush
Hillary C.
maybe Obama

Mexico:
Calderon
Obregon

Canada:
Harper
???

Cuba:
Fidel Castro
Raul Castro?
???

South Rebels:
Subcommander Marcos
Pres. Hugo Chavez

North Rebels:
Syndicalists?
?????

Unique Unit List
(not including ideologues or shared units or future units)

Classes:
INF = Heavy Infantry; default marine
2NDINF = light infantry or civ flavored; default protester
ARMOR = tanks; default abrams
BOMBER= includes stealth as UU
CHOPPER=based on Gunship
FIGHTER= based on jetfighter
MECH=mechanized;based on mechanized infantry

some more i will reveal later... ;)


UNITTYPE Name
:strength:x
:move:x
:hammers:x
Promotions
Bonuses

Canada

INF Regulars
:strength:24
:move:1
:hammers:160
+50% vs MECH

2NDINF Mountie
:strength:20
:move:3
:hammers:110
Mobility
+50% withdraw

ARMOR Leopard 2A5
:strength:40
:move:3
:hammers:240
2-3 First strikes
No defensive bonus

BOMBER B52 Stratofortress
:strength:18
:move:12
:hammers:160
Collateral 20%
-5% vs. water

CHOPPER AH-64 Apache
:strength:28
:move:5
:hammers:180
No defensive bonus
Flying can't take cities
25% with draw
+75% vs Armor

FIGHTER F-16 Falcon
:strength:24
:move:10
:hammers:150
Collateral 10%
Intercept 70%

MECH Stryker ICV
:strength:34
:move:3
hammers=220
March
Intercept 25%

Cuba

INF Redguard
:strength:24
:move:1
:hammers:160
+50% City Strength

2NDINF Comrades
:strength:18
:move:2
:hammers:110
+50% City Strength

ARMOR T-84 Oplot
:strength:36
:move:3
:hammers:200
0-1 First strikes
Blitz
No defensive bonus

BOMBER TU-95 Bear
:strength:17
:move:10
:hammers:140
Collateral 15%
-5% vs. water

CHOPPER MI-24 Hind
:strength:26
:move:4
:hammers:170
No defensive bonus
Flying can't take cities
25% with draw
+100% vs Armor

FIGHTER Su-37 Flanker
:strength:22
:move:10
:hammers:120
Collateral 10%
Intercept 60%

MECH BTR-80
:strength:30
:move:3
hammers=180
Medic
Intercept 20%

Mexico

INF GAFE
:strength:24
:move:1
:hammers:160
+50% vs INF

2NDINF Policia
:strength:20
:move:2
:hammers:140
+25% vs 2ND INF

ARMOR M60 Patton
:strength:30
:move:3
:hammers:170
Blitz
No defensive bonus

BOMBER B52 Stratofortress
:strength:18
:move:12
:hammers:160
Collateral 20%
-5% vs. water

CHOPPER AH-1 Cobra
:strength:24
:move:4
:hammers:160
No defensive bonus
Flying can't take cities
25% withdraw
+100% vs Armor

FIGHTER F-16 Falcon
:strength:24
:move:10
:hammers:150
Collateral 10%
Intercept 70%

MECH M3 Bradley
:strength:32
:move:3
hammers=200
March
Intercept 20%

Northern Rebels

INF Guerilla
:strength:24
:move:2
:hammers:140
Commando
+25% vs 2NDINF
+25% vs. ARMOR

2NDINF Reactionaries
:strength:18
:move:2
:hammers:90
Commando
1 First Strike

ARMOR M60 Patton
:strength:30
:move:3
:hammers:170
Blitz
No defensive bonus

BOMBER C-130 Conversion
:strength:16
:move:10
:hammers:100
Collateral 25%
-10% vs. water

CHOPPER AH-1 Cobra
:strength:24
:move:4
:hammers:160
No defensive bonus
Flying can't take cities
25% withdraw
+100% vs Armor

FIGHTER F-86 Sabre
:strength:18
:move:10
:hammers:100
Collateral 10%
Intercept 70%

MECH Pickup Truck Technical (needs graphic, currently using black humvee)
:strength:26
:move:3
hammers=140
Mobility
Commando
Intercept 20%

Southern Rebels

INF Zapatista
:strength:24
:move:1
:hammers:140
Drill I
Guerrilla II
+25% vs. MECH

2NDINF Villager
:strength:18
:move:2
:hammers:90
Guerrilla II

ARMOR T-72 MBT
:strength:32
:move:3
:hammers:200
0-1 First strikes
Blitz
No defensive bonus

BOMBER TU-95 Bear
:strength:17
:move:10
:hammers:140
Collateral 15%
-5% vs. water

CHOPPER MI-24 Hind
:strength:26
:move:4
:hammers:170
No defensive bonus
Flying can't take cities
25% with draw
+100% vs Armor

FIGHTER MiF-25 Foxbat
:strength:20
:move:10
:hammers:120
Collateral 10%
Intercept 65%

MECH M113A3
:strength:26
:move:3
hammers=150
Medic
Guerilla II
Intercept 20%

USA

INF Veterans
:strength:24
:move:1
:hammers:180
Combat I
Combat II
Combat III

2NDINF Police
:strength:20
:move:2
:hammers:140
+50% vs. 2NDINF

ARMOR M-1A2 Abrams
:strength:40
:move:3
:hammers:240
Blitz
1 First Strike
No defensive bonus

BOMBER B-2 Spirit
:strength:20
:move:12
:hammers:220
Collateral 20%
-50% vs. water
50% Evasion

CHOPPER AH-64 Apache
:strength:28
:move:5
:hammers:180
No defensive bonus
Flying can't take cities
25% with draw
+75% vs Armor

FIGHTER F-35 Lightning II
:strength:26
:move:10
:hammers:180
Collateral 15%
Intercept 70%

MECH Stryker ICV
:strength:34
:move:3
hammers=220
March
Intercept 25%

Futuristic Units (can be discovered later in game)

INF Auto Mortars
:strength:28
:move:1
:hammers:220
Drill I
Drill II
Collateral Damage 10%


2NDINF Panzer Cops
:strength:25
:move:2
:hammers:180
+25% vs. 2NDINF
+25% vs. INF

ARMOR Ultra-Heavy Tank
:strength:50
:move:1
:hammers:380
1-2 First Strike
No defensive bonus

BOMBER Space Bomber
:strength:30
:move:99
:hammers:400
Collateral 40%
50% Evasion

CHOPPER Airfish
:strength:34
:move:6
:hammers:280
No defensive bonus
Flying can't take cities
50% with draw
+75% vs Armor

FIGHTER Space Fighter
:strength:26
:move:10
:hammers:180
Collateral 15%
Intercept 70%

MECH Mechanized Walker
:strength:40
:move:4
hammers=380
March
Intercept 25%

ARMOR Hover Cavalry
:strength:40
:move:4
:hammers:380
No defensive bonus
+50% withdraw
Flank attack vs. ARTILLERY

BOMBER Rods from the Gods
:strength:999
:move:99
:hammers:2000
Collateral 100%
100% Evasion
National Unit (civs may only ever have one each)

ARTILLERY Rocket Launcher
:strength:20
:move:3
:hammers:380
No defensive bonus
+50% withdraw
40% Collateral Damage
+70% Interception
(can kill units)

here's a reanimated space fight, now a space bomber, using stealth bomber animations

no we need to come up with that answer as a community

so far:

USA
Bush
Hillary C.
maybe Obama

Mexico:
Calderon
Obregon

Canada:
Harper
???

Cuba:
Fidel Castro
Raul Castro?
???

South Rebels:
Subcommander Marcos
Pres. Hugo Chavez

North Rebels:
Syndicalists?
?????

Actually, Garret, I wasn't asking you who the leaders would be, I was asking a technical question about how it is possible to be able to play as several leaders per Civ in the same scenario. Is that even possible at all?

Hilary is annoying in her own way, but as to a leader so deplorable that I'd love to rebel against him, the only guy possibly worse thanm Bush is Mitt "Military Industrial Complex" Romney. In fact, the full title of this Mod should be, Second Revolution 3: Romney's Revenge! And we could make a cool boxart for fun, with a bunch or heroic dudes standing in the streets with guns cocked in the forground, and a gigantic portrait of Romney in the background, grinning evilly, and reaching out for the heroes!

As for a good leader for the Rebels, here's a good idea: me!

Lmfao!!!!!!

Lmfao!!!!!!

So, I take it you don't know how to do multiple leaders yet.

umm actually, ive never done it but i think i know how:

i will set the civilizations to have a number of leaders to choose from, and them make them each in the leader file.

As for units, could you work my Black Panther unit into the rebel army? He's almost done; I just need Niknak to get back to me about helping to finish editing him (Nifskope isn't working).

And how about some pics of those units you announced?

http://i95.photobucket.com/albums/l158/ringworldwu/redguard2.jpg
http://i95.photobucket.com/albums/l158/ringworldwu/policegunman.jpg
http://i95.photobucket.com/albums/l158/ringworldwu/gafe2.jpg
http://i95.photobucket.com/albums/l158/ringworldwu/zap2.jpg

Cool, man. Now what about my Panther?

you know it would be cool to have black panthers come out of a world wonder or somthing :D

pretty soon im gonna work on a special unit im calling the terrorist. :o

Interesting Fact:
Well, any of you leftist, anachistic, libertarian, socialistic or communistic types who have met here because of the second revolution, you can meet me (sort of) in an upcomming polycast (http://apolyton.net/search.php?q=polycast&domains=apolyton.net&sitesearch=apolyton.net&cof=GIMP:000080;T:000000;LW:1;ALC:004080;L:http://apolyton.net/images/site/blank.gif;LC:004080;LH:1;BGC:ffffff;AH:left;VLC:00 4080;GL:0;S:http://apolyton.net;GALT:800000;AWFID:1479733c6fac263c;)
if you want to hear my real life, mumbling voice come and download it (when its out)

either way check out the polycasts, they are actually kinda cool:)

here a screenshot of a hidden nationality unit, the Terrorist. He will have 2 guys with m16's and one guy with an antitank for graphics

http://img166.imageshack.us/img166/5665/terrorzy5.jpg

Niknak says he can't really help me with the Black Panther unit, since one of the two units involved isn't cut up yet. Do you know how to decapitate a unit in NifSkope, Garret?

:) yes.

Okay, I'll send you the file when I get home.

okay i will check it out :)

hey that poly cast episode is out so listen if you feel like it :)

the link in now in my sig

I must ask, have you made the model for Commrades yet? Because if not, now that I've sent you the model for Black Panthers, that would work if you reskinned it and made him wearing green clothing and a red beret.

How about a third infantry? Like other units, it would be Civ-specific. I was thinking for America, you could have the third infantry be a "CIA Underminer;" basically, the Great Spy model, maybe reskinned a little to make him look a bit more evil, and given a gun. For the rebels, it could use models like Black Panthers and Female Infantry.

One interesting idea. The intro text to the mod says some call it WWIII. What if we backed that up by expanding the foreign support part of the game. I was thinking that for each support wonder you build, it could give you free units of that country (like the multilateral intervention building giving you peacekeepers), or at least let you build them in that city.

The European Troops could be a three-man squad, one British, one German, and one French:

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=212410

Model for the Chinese troops here:

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=212635

Come to think of it, maybe add Saudi Arabain support, too. They may be the only country that would realistically support Bush at this point, if it wasn't a matter of building wonders.

Russian troops could be the Specnas from the Cold War Mod, which has largely been forgotten because there is only a vanilla version. The Spec is basically a reskinned Navy Seal, although to make it a bit more accurate, you should change its gun to be an AK.

I don't know what unit Japanese support would earn you. Maybe some research into what an SDF soldier looks like is in order. Australian unit is a little up in the air, as well.

What about adding Indian support? They're a major power these days. I think a good effect would be increased production in all cities.

Also, maybe have a modified version of the Space Race, where the goal is sending man to Mars. This may not seem so relevent to the Revolutionary theme, but one of my complaints towards the government is that with all this military-industrial nonsense, they have no time to deliver on space missions like they used to. If another faction could beat them to Mars, it would be a good solid blow to America's bloated ego.

Lastly, since you said you're including Area 51 in Vegas, what effect does that have on gameplay? Does it let you build more advanced aircraft, increase aircraft production, or will there just be advanced aircraft beginning basedin Las Vegas?

i've vetoed area 51 unless its and easter egg joke.

that space race idea would be pretty cool. elaborate more....

i wrote down the new support wonder ideas... i hope i will remember to read tthem later.

Comrades graphics are done, but i can un-done them and add your unit, just attach it here.

thanks bro

i've vetoed area 51 unless its and easter egg joke.

that space race idea would be pretty cool. elaborate more....

i wrote down the new support wonder ideas... i hope i will remember to read tthem later.

Comrades graphics are done, but i can un-done them and add your unit, just attach it here.

thanks bro

i've vetoed area 51 unless its and easter egg joke.

Seems like a mistake to me. Conspiracy theories aside, there is really a prestigious airforce base in Nevada, and so even if it has no effect on gameplay, the wonder should still be included for the sake of realism (not an "Easter Egg Joke"), in the same way that you include stuff like the White House in Washington. But if you remember, another reason I wanted it was to give the rebels a little more airforce than they had currently.

Now, I don't know if their airforce is stronger in version 3, but even if you don't give them any special air units, it still makes sense to start a lot of your existing ones based in Nevada, because, once again, ignoring unproven stuff about Aliens and Biowarfare, their is an AFB there in real life, which developed many planes that later entered service, so once again, there is enough realistic basis to include the Nellis base.

that space race idea would be pretty cool. elaborate more....


Unfortunately, I don't see how we could modify the BTS graphics of the spacecraft so it looks like a Mars landing mission. In fact, I have no idea how to mod "projects" into the game. However, assuming we could do it, the Space Race would go something like this: First you build a launch pad in the city, then you start building mission components.

Based on what NASA's current plans are, the first components you'd need to build would be oxygen tanks, fuel tanks, and a crew module. The basis for this is that they plan to take the mission step by step, actually sending a lot of crew facilities to Mars before they send the crew themselves there, reducing the need to build and launch a huge, cumbersome spacecraft. So, after all the stuff has been sent ahead, you'd build the crew rocket itself.

Comrades graphics are done, but i can un-done them and add your unit, just attach it here.

Meh, don't do it if yours look better. But what about the Third Infantry unit. I'd sure love to give my Black Panthers a CIA Underminer to shoot at!

yeah, i don't really support the strange notions about area 51, and i don't think it will be relevant to the skope.

as far as the spaceship, i could rename it as spaceship. but i would definately need to add more techs to the tech tree, and i already got like 40 or so

i would like to add your unit. get me a copy here :)

yeah, i don't really support the strange notions about area 51, and i don't think it will be relevant to the skope.


Then just call it Nellis AFB instead. Still, it should be included for looks, if nothing else, as the model existing simply looks like a genreic airforce base, rather than an X-Files set. Much like the Toronto CN Tower, it doesn't add anything to the revolutionary theme, but it gives the city more believability. If possible, add stuff like the Space Needle and St. Louis Arch as well. And while we're on the subject, what effects will the Vegas Strip wonder have?

i would like to add your unit. get me a copy here

If you're talking about the Black Panther, I sent you the finished version. As to the CIA Underminer, I'm not quite good enough with Nifskope yet to give an existing unit another's animations. I know that you are, though, so I already gave you the basic guidelines for making him.

As for ideas for third infantry for other Civs, I'll need to think about that.

hey will you do me a big favor and get into the credits?

will you gather all of the community wonder graphics that will be good for flavor???

pretty soon i just happening to be doing buildings, so it would be perfect timing :)

hey will you do me a big favor and get into the credits?

will you gather all of the community wonder graphics that will be good for flavor???

pretty soon i just happening to be doing buildings, so it would be perfect timing :)

hey will you do me a big favor and get into the credits?

I'm very sorry, but that wording is a bit confusing. Could you ask me the question in another way?

will you gather all of the community wonder graphics that will be good for flavor???

Actually, I didn't go looking for structure graphics with this mod in mind. It just happened that two Nevada wonders had been made at the time. But yeah, I can run a search for you.

Rabbit, White apparently downloaded some low-poly models from Turbosquid, and turned them into Nifs for structure graphics. I would, too, except I don't know how to convert a model's existing texture into a DDS file.

Edit (If nobody replies, I'll update this every time I find you something):

OK, here's the Gateway Arch in St. Louis:

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=191483

A cool pic from an aspiring rebelrouser on DA. Ask him if you can use this for art, but he'll probably approve.

http://srvndank.deviantart.com/art/Me-And-My-New-Toy-Cropped-26729061

Hi !!
Happy to see that you're working on a v3 ! :goodjob:

If you need some python, I could try to help (I'm a little busy with my "Spain 1936" v2 for BtS, but I can try)...

Here are some questions that could have the same answer in your Mod and in mine :
Corporations : what will you do with that ? Will you change something (just like you did with religions/ideologies) or not ?
Apostolical Palace : Do you think we could do something ideologic that could have votes, like UN, but not on the same bases ?...
LeaderHeads : I PM you about that.

Its so good to hear from you again!!! I wondered if you had built your spaceship to alpha centauri and weren't coming to CFC anymore :)

As far as python, i might need some help. I know i will need help with ideas and text entries.

Corporations: was thinking about renaming them and giving them logos of my favorite corporations.

Apostolical palace: an interesting wonder. how could we use it....?

Leaderheads: i have finished the first draft of the xml for them. but i havent released what they will look like yet (it will be a suprise yes?)

Its so good to hear from you again!!! I wondered if you had built your spaceship to alpha centauri and weren't coming to CFC anymore :)

As far as python, i might need some help. I know i will need help with ideas and text entries.

Corporations: was thinking about renaming them and giving them logos of my favorite corporations.

Apostolical palace: an interesting wonder. how could we use it....?

Leaderheads: i have finished the first draft of the xml for them. but i havent released what they will look like yet (it will be a suprise yes?)

How about making me as a rebel leader? In the absense of any other ideas, it only makes sense that some of the project participants should get in.

So, I'll take Napoleon as the base of my XML, have the traits Philosophical and Agressive, have the flavors military and science, and my favorite Civic is "Planned." :king:

BTW, the Veterans sound incredibly strong. Based on the fact that they're also the most expensive infantry, I don't think they'll be that unbalanced when it's a race to crank out units, but I do ask that you keep in mind how many 1st Infantry each country has placed to start out, so that one doesn't start much more powerful than the others.

As to the Technical, do you think you know enough to make that unit? I've requested it and seen it requested, but it has never been done. I think that the most logical way would be to take some already-made wheeled vehicle, make a truck model to use its animations, and then add an Infantry into the bed and have him use the machinegun animations, but I'm not sure.

Here's my ideas for the first two Third Infantry stats. I think these should be the "specialized" soldiers.

Northern Rebel: Black Panther
:strength: 20
:move: 2
Free Promotions: March, Commando
Special: 50% City Strength

USA: CIA Underminer
:strength: 20
:move: 2
Free Promotions: Pinch, Commando
Special: Invisible to Most Units when not firing.

Other countries, I haven't thought of yet.

How about making me as a rebel leader? In the absense of any other ideas, it only makes sense that some of the project participants should get in.


:lol:

well actually i have been pretty hush hush about the leaders. but i have choosen what i think represent two very different forms of anarchism.

Anarcho-Syndicalists
Leader: A bunch of bandana wearing anarchist protesters

Anarcho-Capitalists
Leader: A bunch of old Militia men wearing camo.

I picked the leaders for Canada too
Leaders: Stephen Harper or Stephane Dion

Southern Rebels: Hugo Chavez or Subcommander Marcos!

here's some pics
http://i95.photobucket.com/albums/l158/ringworldwu/chavez.jpg
http://i95.photobucket.com/albums/l158/ringworldwu/anarchs.jpg
http://i95.photobucket.com/albums/l158/ringworldwu/obrador.jpg
http://i95.photobucket.com/albums/l158/ringworldwu/dion.jpg

http://i95.photobucket.com/albums/l158/ringworldwu/clinton.jpg

Its so good to hear from you again!!! I wondered if you had built your spaceship to alpha centauri and weren't coming to CFC anymore :)

I did ! But when I read on Alpha Centauri Newsweek that BtS is out in France, I took make spaceship back to Earth !

As far as python, i might need some help. I know i will need help with ideas and text entries.

Corporations: was thinking about renaming them and giving them logos of my favorite corporations.

Yesterday evening, I was thinking about illegal/bad corporations : drugs, weapons, and so on. Some of them could create some bad ressources (drugs) in your enemy cities. Others (weapons) could increase the production speed of armies.
At the time I don't have been looking at the XML file that manages the corporations. So, I don't exactly know what is possible...

Apostolical palace: an interesting wonder. how could we use it....?

Why not duplicate it ? You could have a sort of "International Conference" for the right wing that could decide to vote resolutions. And an "International Forum" for the left wing that have its resolutions too. And UNO comes too with other resolutions...

Leaderheads: i have finished the first draft of the xml for them. but i havent released what they will look like yet (it will be a suprise yes?)

OK. Silence about that. And let's wait...
Here an idea (make what you want with it...) :
The Revolutionary Armed Forces of Colombia–People's Army (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Revolutionary_Armed_Forces_of_Colombia)

We really need Mitt Romney as one of the USA leaders. Even if he has very little chance at winning a legitimate democratic election, it still seems important from a symbolic angle that I get to fight him, even if I can't do it playing as myself.

BTW, are any of the existing leaders' traits changed?

yes most of the leaders have new traits. one trait is specific to the leader and the second trait both leaders of the civ have together.

What about Romney?

I like that Mitt is running, but i think that Hilary and George represent the two greatest evils that america has going for it now!!

I like that Mitt is running, but i think that Hilary and George represent the two greatest evils that america has going for it now!!

Trigger-happy conservatives and wuss-liberals? Yeah, I'd say that's about the two greatest evils. But if we're going for evil, here, and you want a third leader, then make Amercan Idol the third leader for the USA!

Now, on a serious note, what about that Pickup Truck? Do you know how to make one?

im still on the fritz with getting that model made. i asked asioasioasio but he is super busy with his BtS mod. For now im using a black humvee to represent the pickup truck.

Hello, Garret !
I'm sorry I have not replied earlier to your PM but RL was bugging me much lately and I was concerned to improve my skill in various domain. I will whip your request today.

oh yeah!! :D im excited now!!!!!! :band:

i can't wait to see your art !!

Tell me what you think :

http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/105110/2RevTechScreen1.png

that is freaking AWESOME!!! thats THE PERFECT loading screen. and then you eventaully see Che through it all ;)

So when is this mod coming out?

well its in the alpha phase II. i gave a copy of what i had finished to dale, who will then help me BtS-ize it and get the dll's working. Once that is done, i will need the help of the whole 2nd rev community getting the Flavor Texts finished and maybe even with buttons and other 2d art :)

well its in the alpha phase II. i gave a copy of what i had finished to dale, who will then help me BtS-ize it and get the dll's working. Once that is done, i will need the help of the whole 2nd rev community getting the Flavor Texts finished and maybe even with buttons and other 2d art :)

What are Flavor Texts?

Those are things like the Civilopaedia entries for stuff. possibly even the strategy texts too.

Those are things like the Civilopaedia entries for stuff. possibly even the strategy texts too.

I know leaders have Flavors in their XML, which indicate their bias with respect to what they should produce. I think that units, buildings, and techs must have it, too.

which size needed ?

I know leaders have Flavors in their XML, which indicate their bias with respect to what they should produce. I think that units, buildings, and techs must have it, too.

correct. so there could be like a hundred entries needed to complete the game. wanna help?

which size needed ?

confused :crazyeye:
i think you mean the 2d art you just made, and that is probly needed to be 1024X768. that is a good default for interface artwork, and if i need to resize anything, i will at a moments notice.

Thanks ! :)

btw you are awesome :goodjob:

correct. so there could be like a hundred entries needed to complete the game. wanna help?

I haven't actually modded any production options, but if you want to send me the XML, I'll see what I can do. First, though, it might be a good idea to know what all is in the game.

pretty soon, i will release an alpha version.

hint: you will simply just check the civilopaedia and write down the "text strings". which (instead of the correct paragraphs) it would be written TXT_CILILOPEDIA_SUPPORT_WONDER or something.

all you would have to do, is pick some of them out for you to write about. trust me there will be plenty :)

One thing I never found was which file the flavor tags for units are in. Do you know?

i do know, they are in the text info files. this you don't really need to worry about. if need be, you could just post the texts in the text thread here at second rev forums, and then i could add them later :)

i do know, they are in the text info files. this you don't really need to worry about. if need be, you could just post the texts in the text thread here at second rev forums, and then i could add them later :)

Could you tell me exactly which file it's in? While I may not make any units for this mod, I plan to make my own mod later on, and it would be nice to practice.

Now, one important question about the mod: will the civilizations have unique buildings? If so, I think America's should be the Fox News station, which replaces the broadcasting tower.

Could you tell me exactly which file it's in? While I may not make any units for this mod, I plan to make my own mod later on, and it would be nice to practice.

you don't need to worry about learning XML, that's my job. all you have to do (once the alpha is released) is just post the text for the 'idea' or civics or units in the mod, and then just post the text here. (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=185948)
this way i will insert your work into the game for simplicity.

if you still want to snoop around in the XML, just go to the beyond the sword directory, then go to Assets/XML/Text and see whats in there
DO NOT CHANGE aNYTHING however, as this is just for looking (unless you make a copy of the files somewhere else then change them)



Now, one important question about the mod: will the civilizations have unique buildings? If so, I think America's should be the Fox News station, which replaces the broadcasting tower.

im thinking about implementing unique buildings post-release.

Announcement:

Thanks to Dale, the alpha release is coming along well. after i handle a mess of graphical errors, i will be starting on the scenario map :)

Announcement!!!

I got the map to load. now its a strait shot till the alpha release!!! I AM SO EXCiTED!!@!@#!@$!@#! :D :D :D :D :D

UPDATE: UU's screenshot added :)

UPDATE: UU's screenshot added :)

Despite the small size, that's pure, unadulterated glory. What happened to the armed modern worker, incidentally? Is he still in there?

At any rate, I had a feeling that the Next War units would be in this. Also, Asiasioa (or however you spell it) said he'd make the pickup truck, though I haven't seen it yet.

I knew that screenshot would make some people happy :)

asioasioasio has been pretty busy with his mod, so no rush there. later on, when he gets me that model, i can insert it into the mod in its rightful place. right now the pickup truck is being represented by a black humvee.

now the only tough part will be making the new map complete. i will have to break out the atlas again, since my plan of converting the old map didnt really work out.

I will release a beta as soon as its done. the only thing that will be missing is some of Dale's awesome coding. but as he told me, he's taking a little break right now :)

bad news:
thanks to microsoft, i lost my map file, and didnt yet have a finished backup. so this has set back the project a couple weeks :(( (i was very very sad)

i hope all monitoring this mod will bear with me.

bad news:
thanks to microsoft, i lost my map file, and didnt yet have a finished backup.

Revenge for the button depicting Bill Gates as a pirate, no doubt. :rolleyes:

yeah i bet. he probly told my windows to eat my work GRRRRR munch munch!

high, i saw you had available leader heads and i was wondering if they had to be factual or living, like would it be possible to have che guevara as a leader for cuba or possibly bolivia (saying his campain there worked) and what about chaves for venesuala, or even the west coast anarchist for america.

also as a side note i was reading an articel out of cuba where castro was talking about buying high output generators from china that consume minimal gas or whatever, but how about making that a specific building instead of windmill (if thats still available) alltho i shouldent be giving ideas as i havent been able to get it to work yet...

chavez will be available in the upcoming version (still a work in progress)

i have been thinking on your problem. did you say you were trying to load the exe with warlords directly, through windows? you need to install the mod first using the exe, then with warlords open, load a mod, and select Second Revolution 2.0. There will also probably be compatibility issues with new patches :(

chavez will be available in the upcoming version (still a work in progress)

i have been thinking on your problem. did you say you were trying to load the exe with warlords directly, through windows? you need to install the mod first using the exe, then with warlords open, load a mod, and select Second Revolution 2.0. There will also probably be compatibility issues with new patches :(

Cool. So how far from here til the mod is released?

well, my problem is right now, the map. every time i sit down to finish the work i lost, i get super mad and have to take a break. besides that, there are the icons to be done. maybe you can help out with that once i release the beta.

the beta will be announced and released as soon as i'm done with the map.

i've been really busy with another secret project, so its been eating some of my time up :(

Well, at least this is done.

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=250135

And it may give you incentive to finsish if you take a few shots at Microsoft in this version of the mod. What that means yet, I'm not sure.

WOW that unit sure does look awesome!

WOW that unit sure does look awesome!

Very awesome. Any updates?

well, i have started on the map again. it will be sometime for the map to be finished, but this time i won't let a data crash happen. ive been pretty busy with real life and another civ project thats secret for now, but i think about the mod every day.

hey just to let you know, when i get the map finished, there will be some work for you to do, if you want to. :)

hey just to let you know, when i get the map finished, there will be some work for you to do, if you want to. :)

It really depends uoin the nature of the work. I don't know much about Civ4 modding other than XML coding, so how much I could do is doubtful. Also, my computer is busting up, so I need it fixed (this is my parents' computer). However, if you like, I can suggest ideas, suggest music, or search for 2-D images that might work.

mainly i might need 2-d work (there will be alot of button icons) and even more so i will need civilopaedia entries, which allow alot of creativity :)

BTW: Happy Revolutionary Thanksgiving :D

by the way, i contacted a friend of mine who moderates here to move some of these posts over to a partner thread directly in the Second Revolution Subforum, labeled "Political Debate Thread (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=185945)"

don't worry, he won't delete anything or warns, but we can continue this interesting discussion in the appropriate thread. i would like us to focus on the mod here, and debate in the place made specifically for debating. :)

Like Garret said, let's leave this thread to 3.0 discussion and put the political discussion stuff where that thread is.

Thanks Woodelf, i can always count on you :)

BTW:

3,000th POST!!!

This may have been mentioned before, but I think it would make so much sense if you added the features of the 'Revolution' mod into this one. What I mean is, you could have splinter groups and coalitions that dissolve. For example, Quebec and the survivalists are likely to break away from the main group of revolutionaries, although not necessarily violently.

yeah, i was always interested in the revolution mod (who wrote it again, i cannot remember). but for now, i am added 0% SDK or python modding to 3.0 as my code guy is having indefinite family problems. :(

I think the revolution mod is better suited to an Epic type game, whilst my mod is more along the lines of a long ass Scenario.

To switch gears for a moment, I still am worried that the Veterans will be overly-powerful, not just because of the promotions they start with, but also because of the promotions those enable right off the bat (pinch and ambush, for example).

The high cost of the unit may very-well balance the game, but you need to watch out about how many units America and the rebels have at the start of the scenario. If America has a bunch of ready-made veterans off of the start, then they'll be a steamroller.

Good point!

I plan on only equipping the nations with the 2NDINF units to start. they will have to 'research' how to get the other units. I will justify this research for the USA as sluggish mobilization.

What this means is that Rebels will get reactionaries, USA will get police, Zaps will get Villagers, ect.

what do you think??>

Reactionaries?

Reactionaries?

2nd Inf for the Northern Rebels. Two punks and a pissed off office worker, with assault weapons.

But 'reactionaries' implies that they would be rising in defense of the system, not against it, surely?

hmmm. i thought that is sounded good. the ones that defend the system in my game are Police.

here is wiki. we are both correct :)

Reactionary (or reactionist) is a political epithet, generally used as a pejorative, originally applied in the context of the French Revolution to counter-revolutionaries who wished to restore the real or imagined conditions of the monarchical Ancien Régime. Through the 19th century, it was used to refer to those who wished to preserve feudalism or aristocratic privilege against industrialism, republicanism,[1] liberalism, and in some cases socialism.

Later on in the early 20th century, the term also came to describe those favouring a stronger role of the Catholic Church in society, as well as - pejoratively - the diverse groups and individuals criticizing certain aspects of ideologies like liberalism, democratic socialism, secularism, and other leftist ideologies.

I wouldn't wish to disagree with such a friendly compromise :), but the wiki-quote seems to say that I'm entirely right, and it would not be appropriate to apply it to a left-wing group. It's just that I've spent a fairly long period of time around people who use 'reactionary' as a strong insult.

If you look again at the quote, emphasis mine:

"Later on in the early 20th century, the term also came to describe [snip] the diverse groups and individuals criticizing certain aspects of ideologies like liberalism, democratic socialism, secularism, and other leftist ideologies."

Couldn't they be called revolutionaries instead? Or rioters or something?

hmm well lets come up with a new name. so far we have revolutionaries and rioters, what else?

Street Fighters? (Rolling Stones + Rage Against The Machine reference)

Angry Mob? (C&C Generals reference)

Concerned Citizens?

Disgruntled Proles?

People's Militia?

i kinda like angry mob :)

anyone else have some more suggestions?

"Angry Mob" and "Militia" both would be more appropriate for a larger group than they would for with a formation of three. "Rebels" would be a good catch-all name, seeing as they are basically the normal citizens who rise up at the beginning.

Oh, and back to the balance issue, starting everybody with only second infrantry would still be a little unbalanced, since the police (both Mexican and American) get a bonus against other 2nd Infantry.

My thought to balance it more is to start everyone with free technologies in this scenario, much like the core game does. One thing I think would make sense is giving the rebels a diplomacy tech right off the start, because much of the rest of the world is now mad at the US government and probably not willing to help them; maybe they'd even be willing to be a thorn in their side! Meanwhile, the US could get technologies that enable the building of tanks and planes right off the bat, since a rebel group is likely to start off low-tech.

well there are six civ's so what techs go to who? i had mulled this one over during the early dev and now it has come back to haunt me ;)

"Angry Mob" and "Militia" both would be more appropriate for a larger group than they would for with a formation of three. "Rebels" would be a good catch-all name, seeing as they are basically the normal citizens who rise up at the beginning.

I always assumed that the units were representations of entire regiments or whatever they're called...

I always assumed that the units were representations of entire regiments or whatever they're called...

While this may be the case, the unit is the weaker of the two infantry units, so it's a little farfetched to assume that it represents the concentrated power of an entire mob or militia. While the terms may refer to a poorly organized unit, the strength in numbers would give it a higher strength rating. The Angry Mob in Generals was incredibly strong, especially when equipped with assault weapons; meanwhile this unit is relatively light, even though it starts with assault weapons. Also, I do not think America has enough genuinely discontented citizens to form a mob unit.

Now, things are different with the Southern rebels. With poverty much worse in chiapas, there is more likelihood of a mob forming. Also, the 2nd Infantry for the Southerners has the same strength rating as units armed with assault weapons, yet they are just rural peasants with hunting rifles and molotovs. I thus think it makes sense to assume that these guys do represent a larger group, and perhaps their formation size should be increased as such.

well there are six civ's so what techs go to who? i had mulled this one over during the early dev and now it has come back to haunt me

If you send me the tech tree, and info about what the techs enable, I may be able to give suggestions.

@dead flag

yeah, i try to represent the units as groups of people. The 2NDINF units dont really mean a regiment or organization, there more the backround fights between police and rebels.

@Bahmo

When i get the map done (probly soon), then i have to finish the buildings and building graphics, then pop in some final unit arts. after that i have to populate the map with units and buildings. after this i plan on releasing the first beta test. You'll be able to get a good look at the techtree then, and your ideas will get implemented right then during the beta.

After the beta release, all that will be left will be icons, interface, and flavor text, and this is when the community support will be needed the most for flavor text and 2d graphics art :)

soon soon.... i have been so busy with raising my son, supporting my wife in her *insanely* busy schedule and a secret project you all will find out about in January. these have been keeping me very very busy

@all

i appreciate you guys and your unconditional support of the project. It makes me feel really good :)
Thank you :D

I'll happily write flavour text, if I have the time.

And, hey, of course we support you; otherwise we might have to try and do it ourselves ;)

LMAO i guess you have a point!!
When i made the other versions, all i was doing at the time was taking care of my son and making the mod. But now i seem to have recieved some popularity so i have other projects going on!!

I'm pretty busy for someone who dont get paid ;) :p

Hey, how can I help out? What is left to do?

I'm basically useless when it comes to XML and modeling, but I'd be quite happy to hunt for appropriate pictures and brainstorm for game play. While peer editing would make it infinitely better, I can write a decent pedia entry.

Totally!

Yeah, there will be a TON of pedia writing to do! I got help from sniperrabit!! for the 2D artwork (he is amazing!). I have to add the finishing touches to the map, and im thinking about requesting a new model for the "Support Wonders" to replace the old graphic.

Also: I want you guys to discuss using the Apolstolic Palace mechanic: Should we use it? What should it represent? What should it be call and what graphic?

Could we implement it in an alternative way? I'd like to see two apostolic palaces; one for the revolutionaries and one for the reactionaries. One would be some kind of international treaty organisation, perhaps NATO or something?

And the revolutionaries would have something like the Second Workingman's International, with just as much chance to cause major disagreements and perhaps wars between rebel groups...

What I'd also like to see is different negative ideology reactions for each group. Capitalists shouldn't hate Socialists as much as they hate Anarchists, for example. The civics code should be tweaked so that people with different ideologies favour different civics; maybe the ideologies could grant bonuses which work well with their respective civics?

I have flavored the civics towards the ideologies, yes. it may warrant attention your idea of ideologies getting benefits (however if it requires SDK or python its out for now)

I think apolstolic palace works for the person who building it and would affect their "ideology". i'm not sure how this would end up working, so i might just have to try it out LOL

Hmm, I believe the Apolstolic Palace was used rather effectively in the 1936 scenario.

As for unit pictures, just PM me a list of stuff and I'll do my best to find the right stuff.

Also, PM me what pedias you need done and I'll see what I can do.

What exactly are the 'support wonders' again?

support wonders (if you remember) are like "Japanese Support" or "E.U. Suppor" or "Russian Support" and represent countries not shown in the map, throwing in their lot with the highest bidder.

As for units the list of units is somewhere buried in this thread. There are several posts that show almost all of the units. If we want to do individual buttons for each, that would be beyond belief (and a great relief to me ;) )

by 1936 do you mean Dale's WW2 mod? i worked on that one ;)

Totally!

Yeah, there will be a TON of pedia writing to do! I got help from sniperrabit!! for the 2D artwork (he is amazing!). I have to add the finishing touches to the map, and im thinking about requesting a new model for the "Support Wonders" to replace the old graphic.

Also: I want you guys to discuss using the Apolstolic Palace mechanic: Should we use it? What should it represent? What should it be call and what graphic?
Can you put up a list of all the entreis that need pedia writing? I have lots of spare time during the holidays.

well, we can start with the unit lists.

they are here
1 (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=5804253&postcount=35)
2 (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=5804273&postcount=36)
3 (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=5804283&postcount=37)
4 (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=5804304&postcount=38)
5 (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=5804441&postcount=39)
6 (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=5804476&postcount=40)

and you can post all your flavor text here:
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=255854

i will get a list of civics up next ;)

Ahh, I remember the support wonders. IMO the graphics are fine, change them only if you really really have nothing else to do.

well i wanted something different, but i guess i could go with what i had already. i just wanted a model that had a decal that i could skin with whatever i wanted.

of course this may sound redundant for the flavor text writers, but please post a shout out here (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=186024) in the contributor's lists thread :D

and you can see all the others who have help bring this mod about in the past :)

Merry Christmas Garret ! :xtree: :xtree: :xmascheers: :xtree: :santa2: :snowgrin:

Thanks Bro!!

And merry Christmas to you and all the rest of you revolutionaries.
:xmascheers::rudolf::snowlaugh::xmassign: :assimilate: :newyear:

Merry Christmas everyone!

Merry CRASSMAS

So, how's the map coming?

so far: i have all the mexican cities, cuban cities and south rebel cites placed. and i have alaska done, and the east and west coasts, and a little inland on the west coast. now i have to still make the whole of canada (which is the hardest part) and the rest of the USA inland.
then i add roads and cap resources.

then i finish the buildings xml :)

I have excellent news!

I think we will have Dale back with us! He is going to implement a crap load of code for us. Thanks Dale :)

Cool. So, Canada still giving you trouble, eh?

Garret, I took chance to revisit the screen stuff.
What do you think of this alternate version of the previous one :

http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/105110/2RevTechScreen2.png
?

Thats Going IN!!! I LIKE IT BRO!! :goodjob:

We need all the 2d art we can get.

I've decided that i will implement the "Coal Interface" by asioasioasio, for the grey look, with WW2 typeface. Check it in asioasioasio's profile or the downloads news to see what you guys think :D

I know ! I know ! Choice of the king. If you want change in the fonts that is definitely possible.

yeah check this out:
http://forums.civfanatics.com/downloads.php?do=file&id=7873
this is what i want to use for the interface!

Rest in peace...

Rest in peace...

huh? i hope you dont mean this mod LOL

Updates are fun. *hint* :D

yeah, let me show you guys my alibi for all the darn work i have been putting off.

you might already know, but here is the first podcast episode called "Modcast"
http://polycast.apolyton.net/modcast/

i have been working on it, well, that entire gap period on this mod's development.

But i do hope you enjoy it, I mention several mods and Second revolution is mentioned in passing. when 2ndrev comes out, i will feature it in the podcast and we love having guests!

Yay, updates!

"We have two major graphics. One of them is the embodiment of evil, and the other is a necromancer!"

I laughed hard at that, and I was on a public PC.

LOL thanks bro!!!! We thought that joke went well (especially in this clique ;) )

Im editing the next episode right now, and it will be hopefully out for this weekend. Once things settle into a routine with the podcasts, i want to get some real updates on this mod!!!

This bares asking: will you be using the 3-D leaderheads when applicable?

i think so, yes. and if we have a few missing ones, we can ask some artists, or i can get pack to texture and mesh work :)

got a delicious update for those hungry for news!

FYI: remember a few months ago when i was cussing and nearly in tears from data loss of the new map?? well... i finished it up to where i lossed the info!!
so we are back on track for the mod!!!

be sure to look for all-new cities, not seen before in 2ndrev!!
here is a little teaser pic:

Hooray, nice map! Is it me or are there four civs in north America now?

There are Rebels, USA, Mexico, and Canada. If you are refering to the Light green and red cities, that is because USA is the current civ im 'playing' as (while editing)

LOL in the top right i noticed a typo! does anyone else see it :p

make sure to listen to Episode 2 in my signature ;)

Oh right yes I see; sorry, I'm still not that familiar with all the signs and signals in civ 4...

youre cool. :)

hey did anyone here listen to my podcast?

There are Rebels, USA, Mexico, and Canada. If you are refering to the Light green and red cities, that is because USA is the current civ im 'playing' as (while editing)

LOL in the top right i noticed a typo! does anyone else see it :p

New Yurk City?

LOL that might be a type too. but also Portland, MA reads as "Cherokee" :rotfl:

founded by barbs maybe !

founded by barbs maybe !

AHAHAHA! the cherokee tribe settles in chilly Maine!!

Well, Detroit should have :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad:

lol

So, the rebels have New Orleans?

That's actually a good point. I'd be interested to know how you decided to divide up the cities, Garret.

well alot of those cities you mention are visible in the screenshot, so there is a great teaser (remember, cities that look green or red are american, because it is the active civ during the picture)

Detroit and New orleans i gave to the rebels. I also gave them New york and a bunch of Western cities too. and they get the southern half of alaska, making for a great northern battle.

here is another little screenshot. this one illustrates the borders of the warring factions:

Well, Detroit should have :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad:

lol

So, the rebels have New Orleans?

If I recall correctly, the rebels own New Orleans due to anger at the government for inadequacy in Katrina aid.

unfortunately i cant figure out how to make the territory i set in the map editor to stay under the specific civ's. when i reload the map, the territories are reset :(

Thanks Garret, and the map is pretty useful, but what I meant was, how did you decide which cities were going to rebel and so on?

Edit: also, are you going to have an 'international' type scheme (like the Spain 1936 mod) whereby groups can receive reinforcements from other countries? And are you going to allow situations where a city will revolt and join the other side, for example if they have the wrong ideology and unhappy and so on? It might make 'missionaries' more important. Perhaps ordinary troops for the rebels could have a chance of spreading their ideology to cities they capture?

Edit2: Yeah, I found that when I was playing around with things. My only suggestion is to fiddle with the cities and get the cultural boundaries to be set roughly right.

Edit3: I suggested this for another mod, I think, but it could also work here, if you can do it. I think that territory should be gained and lost according to where units move. So if I move tanks towards an enemy city, every tile they cross will become my culture, for a limited time.

some of those suggestions will take more SDK work than i will be able to get done. all core changes will be done by Dale, with his DCM. but this wont happen till the mod is done, he will just add to it.

I will need either an event hack to make units appear from other countries, or some python from Fabrysse.

Gotten that problem with the cities fixed, yet?

yeah i fixed those typos. i really wish i knew more about the territory editor!

another update:

Excellent!

I cant wait for it to be released :D

Yeah, I'm really looking forward to this. Great work!

Well, just remember, if i can get a release out for you guys, it will still be an alpha release.

Please also post more Flavour Text (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=255854) entries!! Thanks for your support, Rebels!

One thing that has thus far been neglected about this mod's development, is the use of quotes for technologies. In the last version all had the same quotes, but providing some new ones unique to this mod would give it a lot of character. Here's some that I think could work.

"Those who betray their leaders are lower than garbage, but those betray their peers are even lower than that!"--Kakashi
"If a man says he wants freedom and in the very next sentence says what he won't do to get it, he doesn't want freedom."--Malcolm X
"There's no justice like angry-mob justice!"--Clancy Wiggum
"Voting machines are known to be highly defective. AK-47s are known to be highly reliable. Do the math."--Bahmo

Also, Bush looks like he's stifling a fart for the press in that screenie.

That might be a good idea!! we can get some quotes up in a thread around here! :)

Is there a list of technologies somewhere? I could probably dig around for some decent quotes...

lemme dig out my note book...

Armor Branch
A1: Armor Power
Gives Mechanized and Armor

A2: Ruggedized Chassis
Gives Mobile Sam and Mobile Artillery

A3: Improved Motorization
Requires Fusion

A4: Ultra-Heavy Chassis
Gives Ultra-Heavy Tank

A5: Hover Technology
Gives Hover Cavalry

A6: Battlemech Technology
Gives Battlemech Walker

Regular Infantry Branch
B1: Domestic Deployment
Gives Infantry

B2: Body Armor
Gives Paratroopers

B3: Battle Networks

B4: Portable Auto-Cannons
Gives Auto-Cannon Troops

2NDINF Special Infantry
C1: Riots
Gives 2NDINF unit

C2: Sabotage
Gives Spy, Intelligence Agency, Security Bureau

C3: Shock And Awe
Gives Terrorist (hidden nationality unit)

C4: Subjegation or Liberation
Gives Panzer Cops, Enable Universal Drafting

Science Branch
D1: Industrial Sciences
Gives ICBM, Tactical Nuke, Nuclear Plant, Industrial Park

D2: Ecological Sciences
Recycling Center

D3: Fusion Science
Fusion Reactor

D4: Automation Sciences
GivesRocket Launcher

D5: Space Sciences

Aviationics Tree
E1: Airpower
Gives Bomber, Fighter and Missile

E2: Advanced Jet Engines
Requires Fusion Sciences

E3: Reentry Capabilities

E4: Space Superiority
Gives Space Fighter, Requires Space Sciences

E5: Orbital Bombardment
Gives Space Bomber

E6: Orbital Strikes
Gives Rods from the Gods

There are three more rows to go through :)

Regular Infantry Branch
B1: Domestic Deployment
Gives Infantry

2NDINF Special Infantry
C1: Riots
Gives 2NDINF unit


Right, so could you please put my AK-47 quote for one of them?

"Every gun that is made, every warship launched, every rocket fired, signifies in the final sense a theft from those who hunger and are not fed, those who are cold and are not clothed." - Dwight D. Eisenhower

"If it's natural to kill, how come men have to go into training to learn how?" - Joan Baez

"The release of atomic energy has not created a new problem. It has merely made more urgent the necessity of solving an existing one." - Albert Einstein

"If goods don't cross borders, armies will." - Frédéric Bastiat

"Projectile - n. the final arbiter in international disputes. Formerly these disputes were resolved by physical contact of the disputants with such arguments as the rudimentary logic of the times would supply - sword, spear, and so forth. With the growth of prudence in military affairs the projectile came more and more into favor, and is now held in high esteem by all. Its capital defect has been that it requires personal attendance at the point of launch." - Ambrose Bierce

yeah, but we need to move these entries over to flavour text thread (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=255854)

i have updated the format too, in that thread.

A closer look at the screenshot of Bush's ugly mug leads me to two questions. You earlier said that in this version, there would be two leaders-per-civ, and also, that each civ would have its own trait that applied to every leader, in addition to the two traits each leader had. Yet neither or those are present in that picture. Have you abandoned your earlier idea?

Well, here's the part about the multiple leaders. That will be near the last thing i do for this mod. How it works is Firaxis didn't code a way for a "scenario map" to have multiple leaders. So, when the bumps are smoothed over, I will copy the map, except change the leaders and rename the file. Second Rev_AlternateLeaders.wbs or something.

You would have to load a different map to have the other leaders :)

What about the bonus traits afforded to each Civilization.

well, i plan on juggling those around for the alternate leaders, and i think i already have them picked.

To change gears again, how about those ideaology buildings? I think it would be cool if each looked different and had a different effect. My ideas:

Conservative Branch:
Effect-- -10 upkeep
Graphic-- Sistine Chapel

Neoliberal Branch:
Effect-- + 1 Trade Route
Graphic-- Stock Exchange

Nationalist Branch:
Effect-- -10 War Weariness
Graphic-- Citadel

Anarchist Squat:
Effect-- + 1 XP
Graphic-- Thieves Guild

Communist Squat:
Effect-- + 1 Food
Graphic-- Rathhouse

Autonomist Squat:
Effect-- Happiness and Health Points Added for certain resources
Graphic-- Chichen Itza

Chichen Itza?

Chichen Itza?

I felt a meso-American pyramid was a good symbol for resistance against foregin oppression, as much of the Zapatista militia are Mayans.

I like it :) I have been wanting to implement this kinda balance changes for a while.
The graphics i might have a bunch for already, but some of the graphical suggestions are perfect :goodjob:

@deadflag and bahmo

we should start to think about what kinda commerce bonuses the ideologies should provide. i think they can provide science, gold, and of course, culture (aka media in my mod)

I felt a meso-American pyramid was a good symbol for resistance against foregin oppression, as much of the Zapatista militia are Mayans.

Ah that makes sense. I was just trying to imagine what sort of structure you were going for.

Garret, I know it's a bit cliche, but I suggest this:

Neoliberalism - Large money bonus, small culture bonus
Conservatism - Moderate money bonus, moderate culture bonus
Nationalism - Small money bonus, large culture bonus

Communism - Large science bonus, small culture bonus
Anarchism - Moderate science bonus, moderate culture bonus
Autonomism - Small science bonus, large culture bonus

Would it be possible to have more buildings that only worked with a certain ideology? Like, for example, mega casinos only working with neoliberalism or something? That way, the right wingers could start with lots of fancy and expensive production facilities, which could be replaced by Kalashnikov factories or whatever when the rebels take over.

...
Would it be possible to have more buildings that only worked with a certain ideology? Like, for example, mega casinos only working with neoliberalism or something? That way, the right wingers could start with lots of fancy and expensive production facilities, which could be replaced by Kalashnikov factories or whatever when the rebels take over.

this has some merit. we can link any building to a particular ideology :)

Can you link a building with multiple ideologies? So that, for another example, jails could work with all ideologies except anarchism?

.... maybe. i think this could work.

i will get a list of all existing (or future buildings) and maybe we can make some sense of it all.

"Conservatism - Moderate money bonus, moderate culture bonus"

This should really be neoconservatism, there are few true conservatives left in American politics. Ron Paul being one of the few I can think of and even hes more libertarian really.

Bush and Cheney are true neocons, spending money everywhere and expanding government and its powers. McCain is no better.

I see the ideologies like this;

Neoliberalism - Economically far-right, socially centre-right
Conservatism - Economically right-wing, socially right-wing
Nationalism - Economically centre-right, socially far-right

Communism - Economically far-left, socially centre-left
Autonomism - Economically left-wing, socially left-wing
Anarchism - Economically centre-left, socially far-left

(I mixed up Autonomism and Anarchism in my previous post, it should be;

Neoliberalism - Large money bonus, small culture bonus
Conservatism - Moderate money bonus, moderate culture bonus
Nationalism - Small money bonus, large culture bonus

Communism - Large science bonus, small culture bonus
Autonomism -Moderate science bonus, moderate culture bonus
Anarchism - Small science bonus, large culture bonus

Hopefully that makes sense. (colours added for clarification)

I see the ideologies like this;

Neoliberalism - Economically far-right, socially centre-right
Conservatism - Economically right-wing, socially right-wing
Nationalism - Economically centre-right, socially far-right

Communism - Economically far-left, socially centre-left
Autonomism - Economically left-wing, socially left-wing
Anarchism - Economically centre-left, socially far-left

(I mixed up Autonomism and Anarchism in my previous post, it should be;

Neoliberalism - Large money bonus, small culture bonus
Conservatism - Moderate money bonus, moderate culture bonus
Nationalism - Small money bonus, large culture bonus

Communism - Large science bonus, small culture bonus
Autonomism -Moderate science bonus, moderate culture bonus
Anarchism - Small science bonus, large culture bonus

Hopefully that makes sense. (colours added for clarification)

I like!! I like!!1 :D :D

My reasoning for both ends of the freedom scale having the same output is like this;

If you force everyone to follow a proscribed cultural model then that one culture will become very strong.
If you allow everyone to express themselves without protesting you will be generating new culture all along.

My reasoning for the science/money dichotomy is;

Central planning makes data collection much easier, whilst exploitation is obviously a very profitable procedure.

:D

Should one of the "cultures" maybe be replaced with production bonuses?

Also, I still find that political compass to be too simple for my tastes. It lists authoritarian as the opposite of libertarian, but for me, they're not even mutually exclusive. It is possible to have an authoritarian government policy as a means to libertarian ends; an example is the forceful desegregation under Eisenhower. I have a sinking feeling that a lot of what the Libertarian party's supporters are really gunning for is the rolling back of government policies meant to protect minorities, so that these bigoted citizens can oppress them again.

I do, of course, agree with you. It just made things easier to demonstrate, and I'm used to using graphs.

I was thinking about production but I didn't think it was implementable.

Yeah, we need to find a better name on the cartesian graph for the opposite of authoritarianism.

I think the bonuses will range from +1 to +3 for the ideologies.

That's probably a good idea. I'm no civ expert so I just guessed on the graph.

Neoliberalism - +3 :commerce:, +1 :culture:
Conservatism - +2 :commerce:, +2 :culture:
Nationalism - +1 :commerce:, +3 :culture:

Communism - +3 :science:, +1 :culture:
Autonomism - +2 :science:, +2 :culture:
Anarchism - +1 :science:, +3 :culture:

Do you have a list of civics yet? I was thinking that maybe they should be kept as apolitical and abstract as possible, so that all the civs have the opportunity to use any of them. For example, there could be a 'justice' category with 'summary execution', 'jury trial' and 'mob justice' and so on. For economics you could perhaps have a focus on different areas like industrial production, urban development or agriculture. For military you could have 'conscription', 'militia', 'standing army' and others. Perhaps a 'political tolerance' category too? Just a few thoughts.

Do you have a list of civics yet? I was thinking that maybe they should be kept as apolitical and abstract as possible, so that all the civs have the opportunity to use any of them. For example, there could be a 'justice' category with 'summary execution', 'jury trial' and 'mob justice' and so on. For economics you could perhaps have a focus on different areas like industrial production, urban development or agriculture. For military you could have 'conscription', 'militia', 'standing army' and others. Perhaps a 'political tolerance' category too? Just a few thoughts.

I am guessing that the State Capitalism and Rebellion techs have been dropped in favor of givine every side many unique units so all the Civics will be accessible. I do think, however, that certain ideaology buildings should cause happiness or lack thereof depending on what civics are enabled. Example, the "Market" Civic would afford happiness to the cities with Neoliberal and and Conservative Branches, but unhappiness to cities with COmmunist and Autonomist Squats. If you implemented the "Planned" CIvic, the reverse would be true.

I am guessing that the State Capitalism and Rebellion techs have been dropped in favor of givine every side many unique units so all the Civics will be accessible.

Correct :)

I will list the civics by column:
* denotes civic not immediately available.

GOVERNMENT
----

Tribalistic
(no upkeep)

Communistic
(low, +2 farm, +2 Workshop)

Nationalistic
(low, +1 :) per unit in city)

Neo-Liberalistic
(high, -50% War :(, +1 :hammers: from town)

*Anarchistic
(no upkeep, +3 from farm)


LEGAL
-----

Tribal Law
(No upkeep)

Party Bureaucracy
(high, + units, +%50 :gold: :hammers: from capital)

Nationhood
(low, Draft 2, +25%:espionage: in all, +2 :) from barracks)

Checks And Balances
(low, +3 :) from jail)

*Collective Ethics
(low, +50% :gp:, +1 :health:)