Hey, all. I started this thread to discuss the who and the what of the next KotW. Here's what I know so far:


I plan on getting Beyond the Sword, but I'd like to play one more game without it. Judging from the current ALC, Better AI scares me.
I'd like to play a Eurasian power. We did isolation last time.
I want to go to war! I didn't want to deal with the logistics of an oceanic invasion, so we ended up turtling in the last game. Let's not do that again.
I don't want to do Rome. I've already done the cheap Praet rush (fun, but it doesn't really teach you anything other than that Rome is overpowered-at least on this map).
I don't want to do Japan. Toku's a favorite of mine on Earth (he has that Australia in Risk thing going). I'd like to try something new.
We went cottages last game, so maybe we should try an SE this time around. I'm less adamant on this than the other criteria, though.


So with those ground rules in place, what do you all think? I'd love to try Alexander, but maybe it's worth waiting for the beefed up Phalanx. We could do Hatty and just dominate with War Chariots. If Persia's overdone, I'm willing to skip (or at least put off) Cyrus.

Let the debate begin!

If you want a SE and a Eurasian power, why not Peter?... Having so much land avaliable can be quite a chalenge. Or maybe as the Germans....

Go Hateshput! Early War Chariots to take out Darius, expand peacefully while beelining cavalry, then tech cav asap and conquer europe. Tech up to tanks and blitz china. It'll be the last big hurrah for tanks before anti-tank infantry.

I suggest taking Germany for a real challenge and a lot of land grab through wars ;) Egypt and Persia are way too strong on the Earth Map and in a good position so using them to win would be pretty much a breeze for you.

I say Go Freddy Go :)

France is wedged right in the middle of Germany, Spain, Rome and England... I'd like to see you go for a cultural, that'd be tough.

I second the motion to go with Peter the Great. Philo is the trait to have if you're going SE, and expansive's cheap workers will help you chop more early troops and make those farms. As Peter you've got alot of irrigated grassland to work with so from an economic standpoint that's great for your SE. Early rush a neighbor or two to grab some big hammer cities and then beeline Cossacks and overrun Europe, Asia and Africa! (Might as well do a cossack blitz before they require rifling making the Cav beeline muuuuuuuuuuuch slower)

To all of you clamoring for Peter...

Unfortunately, Russia is locked into Catherine. As much as I love beelining Computers with Peter for all those free Philosophical scientists in the late game, he's off the table.

Turkey. Poor starting Terrain, but a nice UU/UB.

Or Mali ....
Or Shaka ...

Ok ,then Germany. Philo leader AFAIK and LOTS of warmongering just to get 3decent cites... And a good time to say goodbye to the golden Panzer age...

"The Revenge of Roosevelt." Or even tougher, Huyana. Give a chance to the civ you wiped out/vasselized in the last game.

do arabia. one of the harder civs to play

G-e-r-m-a-n-y!!!!!!!! :please:

I'm not sure the economy will be as significant since your in europe with loads of resources and trading partners all around. Hammers are what you want and need for wars

You should be Mongolia!

Or what about Spain? That way there's no gimped AI (due to settler position at start).

Turkey. Poor starting Terrain, but a nice UU/UB.
My Warlords Earth18 doesn't have Turkey. Are you thinking of a different version?

My main suggestion would be that if you're considering Domination, use Epic speed. I think there's no reason not to try a strong leader/start, if you don't mind changing the handicap level.

Turkey would be the Persians I imagine. Right?

My Warlords Earth18 doesn't have Turkey. Are you thinking of a different version?

My main suggestion would be that if you're considering Domination, use Epic speed. I think there's no reason not to try a strong leader/start, if you don't mind changing the handicap level.

Ah yes, the one where I added in more civs, heh.

Spain!

I'd love to see Spain not 1 square away from the coast and totally gimped. You could have 3 capital city sites after a monster axe-rush-'o-rama into France, Germany, and Rome - slap Russia and Greece with uber-Catapults and Swords, burn your way through the middle east and Africa with Conquistadors, crush half of Asia with grenadiers and uber-promoted cannon (from the UU) and the other half with tanks and infantry!

WAR WAR WAR WAR! (break for lunch) WAR WAR WAR WAR!

Hmm.... maybe I'll start an Isabella game tonight after I get home. I think if anyone is ideally set up for a constant-war SE domination win on a map that freakin' huge, it's Isabella.

Ok ,then Germany. Philo leader AFAIK and LOTS of warmongering just to get 3decent cites... And a good time to say goodbye to the golden Panzer age...

Something happening to the Panzers in BTS?

^^Anti-tanks units..... AFAIK no resources needed, so bye bye pillaging oil ( to prevent Gunships )+ Blitzkrieg.

I was all set to play as Alexander despite the upcoming boost to his UU, due to his position and his philosophical-ness. The arguments for Frederick are interesting, though. I usually think of him as a roadblock for other civs... which is as good an argument as any to give him a whirl. In fact, I haven't used him much in any regard.

So that's where I'm leaning right now. I'm not going to get to play until Tuesday night or Wednesday afternoon, but I can continue to look in on the boards for a little while, so I'm still willing to keep this argument and my options open.

Regarding Spain: I do have a little bit of experience with Isabella on this map. She's fun, but I'd kind of rather try something new. And besides, you can't really play as Spain without at least a token attempt at a Latin American empire.

Spain will be more fun when beyond the sword is out because of the colonies you can make. Germany/Freddy is a good choice for domination. Panzers are awesome and the assembly plant is really useful with the ability to force 4 engineer specialists. Go for it!!

I'm with the crowd here.
Germany or France. 3 cities, and then it's wartime landgrab (while lizzie is running away;) )
forget about Hatty, Alex, Cathy or JC, everybody's done them a hundred times.

go for Germany. Ferderick is immensly strong for a domination win; a quuick conquest of Europe followed by a sweep into Asia would work well.

Anyone in the Old World is in a good position for a Domination win. I'd say Germany is not in a particularly good position for one since in my experience at least conquest tends to start at the capital and go in one direction. Once you get to the end of Spain and England you're left with large armies far from the front, and during the whole process your other border is begging for invasion from Peter or whoever's in power to your east.

*hint, hint*

So... strategies?

One thing I would suggest is don't let your eastern front become weak, remember to build walls. you might even want to push east first before taking france and spain to give yourself some buffer from your core cities. Check that, take Rome first, then push east for some buffer room. Don't want Praetorians knocking on your door with nobody home.

If you go Germany, finish Rome and expand east until russia becames a problem. Close borders with the westerners. SE + war with Catherine. Chop + whip infrastructure. Clean the west before Astro and advance to Middle east ( expect a good sized Persia and Egypt ). If you get here the rest is easy...

Just checked out the map. You will start with copper at any reasonable city location (you start one tile from the coast, and I'd recommend either 1S or 1N of that start), so an axe rush is an obvious start. You don't have Iron in your fat cross at either location, so you will definitely need to go to war early. France and Rome both have it.

Paris starts with both Stone and Marble, and I've never seen a game where several wonders weren't built there (very often, the Pyramids, which you'll want for a SE). However, it may make more sense to keep France penned in, and take Paris with catapults (since the cultural defense will be significant) once those wonders have been built. Drawback there is English culture that will be harder for you to overcome, especially as you will never get any culture from any wonders already built.

If you don't go west, another option is to head south to Rome before they get Praets. Let Paris get wondered up while you take out the only European with a Classical era UU. Spread W/SW towards Alex, and get a foothold in the Middle East. Take out France and Spain with Maces, rather than Axes, and pick up a few wonders and a Holy City (maybe a double or triple), then run away with the game.

Last option is to head west towards the lovely Catherine. It's a lot of forest, with some decent land underneath. Not much benefit there, specifically, so I'd give her a pass -- she's got enough land to settle that she'll probably go easy on you, not that you can ever trust her. Set her to war against Cyrus if you can.

I'd leave England alone, or leave it as something to clean up during a consolidation phase. There's not much of a threat from there, and you'll need a decent trading partner at some point.

Once you've got Europe, you've got the best terrain in the game. Head to Liberalism, get MT, Chemistry and Steel for a Renaissance war in the Middle East, then follow it up with Panzer Blitzkrieg to the East, and a domination victory should be easy.

Hunh. I'd always thought that Germany should take out France and Spain first as a matter of course, but these counter-arguments make a lot of sense. Closed borders could keep them penned in, and hitting Caesar early would quell those worries about having a bored, pent-in Rome five spaces from my capitol. And, yes, Louis does love building the Pyramids on this map. Why build it ourselves when he's willing to do it for us?

Quornix's point about English culture is certainly pertinent. London starts one square away from Paris. If we wait too long, we might never reap the benefits of owning the French capitol (having to constantly build culture and rush-buy culture buildings to stave off English borders). Given that, taking England (or at least London, which doubles as a fantastic cottage town, If I remember correctly) might be an earlier priority than everyone says. Heck, maybe make it part of the Western Push. It would only take three or four galleys.

Keep the ideas coming. I kind of jumped in early with Monty and played it by ear. I'd like to have a better-defined plan this time around.

Hunh. I'd always thought that Germany should take out France and Spain first as a matter of course, but these counter-arguments make a lot of sense. Closed borders could keep them penned in, and hitting Caesar early would quell those worries about having a bored, pent-in Rome five spaces from my capitol. And, yes, Louis does love building the Pyramids on this map. Why build it ourselves when he's willing to do it for us?
Really, there's not much benefit to keeping them penned in, either. They have to go to the other side of Russia to get any real open spaces. Letting them through might make things easier on you early on, as they stay busy trying to settle the ends of the earth. It'll make it harder to kill them, but no harder to get their European land.

Really, there's not much benefit to keeping them penned in, either. They have to go to the other side of Russia to get any real open spaces. Letting them through might make things easier on you early on, as they stay busy trying to settle the ends of the earth. It'll make it harder to kill them, but no harder to get their European land.

Harder to keep that land productive (We yearn to join our motherland!), too. But your point is well taken.

Snaaty did a very good persia game awhile back, do the opposite. I played alexander on prince and won domination in the 1800's, here is the winning strategy:

1. Found your second city in Anatolia, Cyrus will found your third for you in Iraq. Athens has iron right next to it, beeline to BW, I think you can claim bronze with athenian border pops.

2. Take out Cyrus, he will have 3 or 4 cities by the time you get axes up from the iron/bronze. He gets big and ugly otherwise.

3. Head for Happy next, she goes down fast due to her lack of production, very little in the way of an army usually.

4. Build up, make allies in Europe and prepare to start fighting there.

5. After a little while, start storming Europe. Use your allies in Europe to make the wars go quicker, then turn on them and take them out. You can eliminate a lot of rivals fast this way.

6. Now go for Russia, maybe make a sidestop for Mali and/or Arabia but their territory is mostly useless, I just took his worst city, burned it, then vassalized Mali, Saladin only has one worthwhile city, mecca, so just take all of it for land.

7. Congradulations, you now have a straight path for victory. Hit India, then China, then go up into Mongolia in quick succession. Eurasia+Africa has enough land for domination, just spam cities and culture to fill in the gaps. If you're feeling ambitious, you can also head on to Japan and the Americas for more land.

Any civilization that starts near the Middle East is pretty fun to play, Iraq has lots of nice floodplains and Persia has tons of resources, take those and you win.

I had forgotten about Alex... though I haven't seen the map. Is he not in Europe as well, to the southeast of Germany? If so the first targets might need to be Caesar and Alex, which should grant two good cities, plus whatever else they manage to settle. At that point, it might be smart to take England, then France. Either way Paris or London would seem to be culturally squeezed by the other, and it would probably be quicker to take London first the come back for Paris. I think that would leave Spain in Europe, probably with only Madrid. If you use two stacks for the England/France takeover, one could head east to ensure some protection from Catherine while the other takes out Isabella. Like I said, I haven't seen the map, but from what everybody else says, this might be a good path for European conquest. The next stop on the list would then be the Middle East and probably ?Africa? for more land. Once you get Astronomy and a couple of Galleons, you could always try and send over an army of workers to grab a city or two in Brazil. I will take a look at the map in WorldBuilder when I get a chance and make more definitive suggestions.

Edit: Just looked at the map (I play Civ on a different computer than my internet) and I think most of my theory stand well. I would add that after taking England and France (you could even leave Ireland if you can Vassalize England) one stack should move east for protection from both Catherine and Cyrus directly and indirectly from the Khan and China. Reinforce if possible, but focus your sights on Africa and Egypt. If you move fast Africa might not be settled very much. The other thing is: and early colony in Brazil (ASAP with Astronomy) would help with an intercontinental invasion, you would already have a beachhead to land troops on in peace before declaring war. They say don't get involved in a land war in Asia, so foment Cyrus and Catherine to bugger the Orient and keep them all off your backs.


On a quick reflection this seems a hugely involved plan for world domination, and maybe you will have to enter an Asian land war, but I would definitely avoid that until Panzers, and then probably go after India first of all of the Asian nations.

Those are my final thoughts on grand strategy.

You'll want to start thinking about how to suppress China and Persia. They tend to be brutally powerful on this map and China has a nasty habit of striking just at the right moment so as to really screw you, at least in Vanilla.

There is a huge amount of territory in central Eurasia that will remain unclaimed for a while. As Persia I remember being able to stretch a continuous empire to the northern icecap without particularly REXing.

Your position is good for a cavalry based force. You have a huge amount of land around you and you'll want to be able to switch from one front to the other quickly.

You're a central European power, so as far as being aggressive, think of Hitler (tanks), Napoleon (known for mobility), Charlemagne (the originator of the mounted knight)...these are the sorts of conquerer to study. The Mongols too of course used horses to deadly effect in this region.

I think Rome and Greece should fall first, followed by britain, france and spain in the west. After securing your flank in the west, the east would be wide open for some mass carnage. I would play that part by ear, hard to tell what the diplomacy picture will look like, let alone who might be already vassalized at that point.