I got my copy of BtS yesterday and went straight for AoI :) Having played a few half-finished games, I'm wondering what other people think about the mod's difficulty level?

I'm finding it too tough. It's not impossible but there are so many targets that it becomes frustrating. It feels like playing FFH2 with raging barbs except the onslaught doesn't eventually end. Instead, it gets worse!

I've tried using intel from previous games to strike early at nearby targets before they become a hassle. This helps but it provides only temporary respite. I get the feeling the mod is meant to be played aggressively from start to finish but it's hard to do that with so many enemy units in play. Any tips?

I played on noble, which was a reasonable challenge but I managed to succeed on my 2nd attempt. My tips (extensive spoiling, I encourage you to play around and just enjoy it first):
-At the beginning, focus on getting a decent army of warriors going before you expand, but don't delay too long. Use a few to block the two passes into your starting valley (I actually built my first city in that southern pass north of the wheat).
-Buildings are less important, so only build them as you need them. For the unit-producing buildings, only build in a single city, to specialise your cities unless you really need a lot of that unit eg archers.
-Send out your initial scouts as a pair, and send them to destroy the frostling lairs - makes a big difference. Send more hunters when you get the chance.
-When you get the chance, find the white castle to the west and destroy it, it stops the frost giants.
-Killing the giant stag gives a golden age, I don't know what you get if you spare it (I spared it once but got nothing at the time, so I killed it the second time I saw it.
-Unless you're really lucky with mines creating resources, you won't have metals, so direct your research into archers and use them extensively. Barrages are a godsend for attacking cities.
-Garrison the fort at the eastern edge of the Doviello empire. It was very costly for me to clear it once it was occupied.
-Take care of your good units. What I mean is that your production is initially limited, so you need to send units out in groups of 2-3 at least to avoid the battle-injured ones getting picked off - these are the units that can form the core of your army once they get a few promos up.
-Your choice of hero shouldn't matter too much, although I ended up using all 3 as the first 2 got killed. This worked quite well as I got the sorceress last, and I was able to upgrade her straight away and use the fireballs, which were incredibly useful in bombarding cities.
-If you reduce the Doviello to just their capital, they should ask for peace and an alliance. You don't have to take it but it will probably make getting rid of the Illians easier.
That's all I can think of for now, I really encourage you to just try different things, maybe on a lower difficulty to get some strategies together. It's a very enjoyable scenario though, much kudos to the dev team.

You didn't say what difficulty level you are playing on. The rate of spawning, and types as well, scale with difficulty, and of course the AI gets bonuses at higher levels still. Don't be ashamed to play a level lower, difficulty does NOT correspond to the levels of FfH!
(The better AI makes a difference, and there are less complex mechanics of the AI to use.)

I found my play style was well suited for this scenario. I typically play a patient, turtle-and-prepare style of game. The only reason this worked for me on all difficulty levels, though, is because of barrage. Archers/longbowmen are key to a non-aggressive strategy!

@Nikis-Knight:
Oops, good point. I played at Prince level because that's what I use with FFH2 and I thought it'd be a similar challenge. Instead, it felt like I was playing at Monarch or higher - too hard. But since you're saying this doesn't correspond to FFH2 difficulties, it all makes a lot more sense now! Wish I'd known this before jumping in!

Even so, I played a fairly efficient game on the most recent attempt and it was still too tough to be fun. I'd hate to try it at Monarch or above! My opening game is as follows:
1. Pick Epona for extra research + potentially excellent spellcasters (hoping for Mark of the Raven!).
2. Send scouts out to fight wolves and/or pick off enemy workers.
3. Build 4 warriors and take out frostling den to the west.
4. Reinforce survivors to be a squad of 4 again and take out frostling den to the north (on the coast).
5. Send survivors west to the nearest north-west frostling den.
6. Build a squad of 8-9 warriors and take Deluac.
7. Send frostling squad survivors to Deluac, because hordes of enemies arrive soon and they always converge there.
8. Found third city 2 tiles west & 1 tile north of wheat. Build an obelisk to expand borders towards the western horses.
9. Archers are available shortly. Station increasing numbers in Deluac.
10. Build roads around Deluac so archers can pop out and offensively use their barrage ability on incoming enemies (allows more attacks before they hit the city).
11. Horsemen are available shortly. Spam them once horses have a pasture put on them & send them all to Deluac to fend off attackers.

And this is where I get stuck... At this point, hordes and hordes of enemies are marching upon that particular city despite the early counter-measures. There are several clear objectives but I can't achieve any of them because all my forces are always pinned down protecting that one city. I did try to turtle while amassing forces. It seemed to be working but in the end failed because...
When I held out until late game (I was up to the last two tiers of techs), waiting for a break, a freak blizzard came down and decimated Deluac as it was under siege! End result: all improvements destroyed, ~80% of workable terrain lessened to tundra or ice, all units in my main army at 50% health or below. I made it through by using fireballs as an emergency defence but the recovery delay plus the permanent decimation of my 2nd most major city slowed the game pace to a crawl.

You don't need research to win at all (only up to whatever tech allows a a forge). You pick Belenus, rush for Doviello and then for the rest of the Godslayer pieces. The you get Kylorin and elude the dragon by going through the south and that's it.

@Nikis-Knight:
Oops, good point. I played at Prince level because that's what I use with FFH2 and I thought it'd be a similar challenge. Instead, it felt like I was playing at Monarch or higher - too hard. But since you're saying this doesn't correspond to FFH2 difficulties, it all makes a lot more sense now! Wish I'd known this before jumping in!

Even so, I played a fairly efficient game on the most recent attempt and it was still too tough to be fun. I'd hate to try it at Monarch or above! My opening game is as follows:
1. Pick Epona for extra research + potentially excellent spellcasters (hoping for Mark of the Raven!).
2. Send scouts out to fight wolves and/or pick off enemy workers.
3. Build 4 warriors and take out frostling den to the west.
4. Reinforce survivors to be a squad of 4 again and take out frostling den to the north (on the coast).
5. Send survivors west to the nearest north-west frostling den.
6. Build a squad of 8-9 warriors and take Deluac.
7. Send frostling squad survivors to Deluac, because hordes of enemies arrive soon and they always converge there.
8. Found third city 2 tiles west & 1 tile north of wheat. Build an obelisk to expand borders towards the western horses.
9. Archers are available shortly. Station increasing numbers in Deluac.
10. Build roads around Deluac so archers can pop out and offensively use their barrage ability on incoming enemies (allows more attacks before they hit the city).
11. Horsemen are available shortly. Spam them once horses have a pasture put on them & send them all to Deluac to fend off attackers.

And this is where I get stuck... At this point, hordes and hordes of enemies are marching upon that particular city despite the early counter-measures. There are several clear objectives but I can't achieve any of them because all my forces are always pinned down protecting that one city. I did try to turtle while amassing forces. It seemed to be working but in the end failed because...
When I held out until late game (I was up to the last two tiers of techs), waiting for a break, a freak blizzard came down and decimated Deluac as it was under siege! End result: all improvements destroyed, ~80% of workable terrain lessened to tundra or ice, all units in my main army at 50% health or below. I made it through by using fireballs as an emergency defence but the recovery delay plus the permanent decimation of my 2nd most major city slowed the game pace to a crawl.
Well I'm no expert but I always find it easier to first found a second city, usually right at the southern pass, and once I have both cities decently developed, start thinking about conquering the neighbors.

Also, it really pays off to start making children of kylorin early on. If you're lucky they might spawn with the mark of the rabbit and the horse, making them awesome scouts. Try to research whatever tech gives you the ability to tame animals fairly early although I don't think beelining for it is a good idea, and get a spider. In the early game even one giant spider makes a huge difference, and if you manage to get two, then use one to defend and send the other to clear out frostling dens.

Yeah I agree, a city at the southern pass is a good spot for a 2nd city. Also, a Fort at the northern pass is a good idea, with a City Defender Archer/Longbowman defending it.

I also built a 3rd city north of the capital, next to the Deer (it's about size 8/9 now)

My first child of Kylorin was awesome! It got Mark of the Rabbit, Mark of the Horse and Mark of the Dog. Making it able to cast Haste, has +1 First strike, gets +1 Movement and gets +50% exp. I made it into a warrior, to run with my scouts. Later I upgraded it to an Archer since I had no Copper and now it's a Longbowman with great promotions running along with my Assassins.

I havn't come very far yet. I'm playing on Emperor, and so far I've conquered a barbarian city and 2 of the Doviello cities. And I have 3 I've built myself (with the capital included).

The capital is size 17, has two Ivory, some towns, farms and mines. And I'm about to build some Mammoth Riders!

I recently killed the Great Stag and I let it go, which made it respawn somewhere far away. Not sure what reward I should expect out of that. Nor do I know what the bonus would have been if I killed it.


Pretty great scenario, simple enough, complex enough and pretty fun. Nice amount of wilderness and weather effects. Love the fog! And I like the random events.

Wow, size 17 capital. Haven't had that, then again I always get my ass handed to me eventually. :) Despite that I am very much enjoying AoI. I only wish it was possible to keep the "story" of it without having to use a fixed map, since I feel like after playing a few times and getting to explore most of the map, it gives player a great advantage over the AI. On the other hand, that's what the deity difficulty is for. :D

I'd say it was a bit easy.

Well, I played it on prince and the only scare I had was Doviello being an absolutely worthless ally. Their capital was overrun by Ice Giants, but once I liberated it and took control, never had any problems. Longbowmen with the double hill promotions chews through just about any unit the AI can throw at you. So defending was quite easy until I was able to build a respectable offensive force, which overran everything ont he map quite easily.

I'll try it on a different difficulty next time. Any suggestions?

edit: Also, the arrow barrage seems overpowered. Since you can barrage and still attack on the same turn. That and if you mass archers, nothing survives all those barrages at once.

I'll try it on a different difficulty next time. Any suggestions?

edit: Also, the arrow barrage seems overpowered. Since you can barrage and still attack on the same turn. That and if you mass archers, nothing survives all those barrages at once.
If you are good at exploiting that barrage ability, I'd suggest going straight to Deity.

At least the AI use the Barrage ability to great effect.

I disagree. The AI uses it, but does not use it optimally.

Well, they used it when invading and when defending. Probably not optimally, but in my games I was always under a lot of barrage.

The AI automatically uses it at the end of its turn. This means it won't soften up the enemy before an attack, which is one of the greatest benefits of using it.

Played on the emperor and it was just alright though it would be fine if the final battle was a little bit more difficult.

Just got BtS and immediately kicked off AoI! Great Scenario! Played on deity but found Epona's fireball ability overpowered.
with just her and a couple warriors you can rush & roll over both the doviello & the illians. Although I did have to reload once when Kylorian got mauled by a mamooth warrior spawned after forging the sword, and had to read some of the pedia to find the workaround.

Phew, maybe it's because I'm altogether new to FfH, but I get my butt kicked all the time with this. Even playing at Chieftain. :blush:

I'm a peacemonger and expansionist in my normal Civ4 strategies, so I have to figure out something new. I jcan't seem to even build two cities and maintain them for much past the year 550. I just get barraged by "barbs" and can't produce enough units to last. I hate having to read spoilers, though, to fine tune my strategy.

Great scenario, though. IMHO, the best part of the BtS expansion pack thus far.

I'm a peacemonger
- It's fun too but raises the difficulty of non-scenario CIV by at least 2 or 3 levels
- no spoiling intented, but remember that in this scenario, you're supposed to kill a god! Peace just won't get you there no matter what the difficulty level

Lots of in depth spoilers below. Read at your own risk.

I liked the challenge early on and exploring the map was risky and fun. Hoever it got a bit easy once I had broken the major forces and there was a longish "cleanup" period where I wasn't in any real danger.

I found it really easy to rush the barbarian city just west of your capital. Send 1 warrior south and everyone else north immediately. Try and catch the Doviello scooting past you as he will reinforce the cities further west.
Kill a few wolves, frostlings to earn a few city raider promos with your warriors or general combat promotions. It helps to earn a few promos and it also allows the barb city to grow to size 2.
Capture the barb city. It should not be a problem as it only has two, maybe 3 defenders.

In the meantime my first build in the capital was a worker, he improves as many tiles around the capital as you want and will shortly be able to build roads to your captured cities.

The Doviello are just a bit further west of the barbarian city you captured. By now you should have some really strong city raider units. You only need one or two highly promoted units, and a few for stack defense (one with medic).

March up to either city and seige from a defensible tile (forest or forrested hill). You can throw everything you have at it, but it's more likely you won't have enough troops to do this. Instead send your best units to get kills. They'll promote quickly and will be healed up in next to no time. You can pick off one or two defenders per turn.

At that point Doviello should only have two cities. If you take either one, they will ask for mercy and join you, if you accept.

I lucked out and went for their capital off the bat - I took it and kept it, and it's a better site. Let them have their smaller city and they can worry about building settlers and expanding.

From this point on you should be able to tech trade with Doviello whenever they get a new tech. It really shortens the tech tree - perhaps it's even a bit exploitative. I never trailed in score after making the Doviello an ally.

When you take the Doviello capital you want to start getting culture there ASAP - there is Iron in the 3rd or 4th ring of that city, even further to West in the icy mountain pass.

I didn't realize what a I strong position I was in at that point in my game - I had already broken the back of the enemy. I probably could have won a lot sooner had I realized, but I was still scouting the map.

I waited until I had both macemen and mammoth riders - tech trading with Doviello really paid off.

From that point I just spammed those units, though I ended up needing very few of them in the end.


Does anyone know how many different Marks of Kylorin there are? I only produced 2 children and both had warmth, so I thought that was the only mark available.

Here's a bit of my strategy from when I won the game on deity level on quick speed. It applies mainly to those who don't mind turtling in their starting valley.
Send your scouts to each choke-point immediately and have them Sentry on the spot. Basically, you want them to keep the barbarians from thinking that they can come at your city (I guess the barb AI didn't learn the same lessons about choke-points that the general AI did). Exploration will have to come later, depending on your difficulty level.

Build a few warriors right away. You can send your initial spare warrior to one of the choke-points. I suggest at least two warriors at each choke-point (more for the highest difficulty levels). You can send an early warrior or your hero to that frostling den that is directly west. Other than that, I didn't push forth much at all.

Once you've secured the choke-points, then focus on two things: development of your valley and getting missile units. I build a city on the hill at the western choke-point next to the wheat, and eventually another city to the north, next to the 'lake', that will take advantage of the deer. Note that cities do not count as choke-points - barbs will assault them.

Another important improvement (besides mines, farms, cottages, and roads are forts on the choke-points. With the forested hill, your northern choke-point will have a defence rating of 100% and your units can use city defence promotions. My western choke-point is a mere 75% on the fort/forest.

The missile troops are needed because of their barrage ability. Having enough of these units protecting each front will almost ensure that you won't lose any units. And, once you start your push forward, they will be indispensable for softening up city defenders. But that's a different spoiler ;)

Does anyone know how many different Marks of Kylorin there are? I only produced 2 children and both had warmth, so I thought that was the only mark available.
There's a bunch. They should all be listed in the 'Pedia.

Yeah, I give up. :p

Love the story and the landscape and the premise, but am so incredibly frustrated with the actual implementation. I know it's a war scenario, but it's also billed as an RPG style game and I don't see that. It's simple spam & attack.

I find it INCREDIBLY boring to sit through turn after turn of attack. Maybe there's a way to just skip having to watch these? And, maybe I just suck horribly at war strategies, but I found I could barely even move even one square closer to an invader's city without needing at minimum 10 units. Still, playing at Settler. Can't imagine what folks are doing differently to find this game easy at Deity.

I've tried taking it easy, building up my first city with stuff, while exploring the landscape and setting up at critical locations: horses, iron, copper the ship, etc. etc. Doesn't matter, if I post 1 unit there, I get slaughtered, if I post 3 or more, I get whipped by a barrage of enemy attacks. I've also tried rushing out, but the game seems to hate that. That damn bird keeps wiping out the galleon if I move in too soon. I guess I don't really even need the hilt until later in the game, but I can't even get later into the game, so it's a moot point. :D

So, sorry to the guys who made this one up, I loved it at first and hate to sound whiny, but it's just so slow and clunky to play when you have to spam out so many units just to hold down even 1 resource... even at Settler. In fact, I've played at Settler, Chieftain, Warlord, and Noble and can see no difference whatsoever between the difficulty levels.

Maybe there's a way to just skip having to watch these?I always play civ with quick offense, quick defense, and quick movement turned on.
Check the options menu.

I always play civ with quick offense, quick defense, and quick movement turned on.
Check the options menu.

I never do that, i am keen on watching those battles :) but well, i am the art guy... i see a pattern :)

i found it hard my first time on Noble cause i was just trying to enjoy everything and pick based on what i thought my people wanted. had to quit that game because it became impossible.

second time i just rushed assassins and didnt expand at all, then brutalized the doviello right off and then followed up on illians, after which it became easy heh. it was a very quick game, but if you dont go after them right away they expand too much, tech out to high heaven, and become impossible.

I never do that, i am keen on watching those battles but well, i am the art guy... i see a pattern Well, I shouldn't have said always... I watch the new animations at least once each, but always end up turning quick combat on.
Vorlshlumf managed to turtle quite well, but I usually strike quick. I'll post a after-game analysis I did later, maybe it'll be interesting.

There's a bunch. They should all be listed in the 'Pedia.

I checked here: http://civ4wiki.com/wiki/index.php/Fall_from_Heaven_II and couldn't find anything. Do you mean the one in game?

Yes, the in-game Civilopedia is what I meant.

Once I actually get some time to play computer games again, I just may have to try this rushing strategy. Unfortunately, I'm so used to my usual play style that I'll probably have to go down 4 difficulty levels to do so.

but if you dont go after them right away they expand too much, tech out to high heaven,
Yeah, in my game I was severely out-teched and out-expanded. However, the tech tree does come to a stop, and that's what allowed me to win. After all, there isn't a time limit or a space-race in this scenario. So, after getting my archer units to defend my valley, it was just a matter of time before eventually getting the mammoth rider tech and owning the AI with those wonderful units. (though, thinking back, I just barely captured a mammoth before the Doviello basically owned the map; otherwise it would have been much harder to assault them - I killed over 300 mammoth riders as it was, if I recall correctly)

Yeah, I give up. ... I've also tried rushing out, but the game seems to hate that
Are you using your heroe ? The game seems to love a heroic rush: even if you get unlucky, there are 2 backup heroes in store. The goal here is to kill a god! Play it like a quest: you're not supposed to spend time building stuff, the enemy civs are there to do that for you. No wasting time building cities and fine tuning ressources. No big stacks of units. No teching (all you need is forge).This scenario is fast, dense and has that heroic brinksmanship flavor. And it's best to play that tune to win.

Well, after getting the chance to play an earlier beta build a few months ago, I finally get a chance to see how far the scenario has evolved.

My first three attempts were monumental failures. (at Noble)

I'm about 120 turns in on the fourth attempt, and finally having success. I suspect that getting over the early game hump will make or break you.


The first time, picking Belenus, I concentrated on grabbing the copper resource and the northern barbarian city as quickly as possible (which I used as a strategy in my beta game with great success), and was promptly worn down by the flood of Mulcarn/Doviello/Barbarian forces, even while cranking out swords.

The second time, I didn't even make it out of the valley because a Doviello force was able to sneak in at the southwest pass and was able to get to my capitol. I saw my defeat video...

The third time, picking Epona, I turtled in the valley, and although I was able to hold off all invasions, I could not make any headway out of my valley after 200 turns - again because of the sheer number of invaders from both the west and the north. Even with barrage and fireball, I stood to lose more units than the enemy (based on the odds I was seeing), and would have been worn down by attrition. Perhaps I could have eventually broken out, but I do not like to play games which end up being an endless grind of attrition either.

So after thinking about it, the main key seemed to be - do not let the Doviello get strong. I picked Belenus. My strategy became focused on pillaging Doviello lands, hitting any lone units if they poked their heads out, and hitting the lightly defended Doviello cities - and this was important - razing those cities if I felt I could not hold them (this was important because whenever I normally play civ4, I have a house rule NOT to raze any cities).

Normally I would beeline to Bronze, because I focused on getting that copper resource, but instead, I beelined to Archery and Horses.

After sending Belenus and a couple warriors out into Doviello lands and doing some pillaging/hit and run, they doubled back and took the northern barbarian city. That city proceeded to crank out warriors, and then archers and went purely defensive. A large force of barbarians and Doviello units made that area a stalemate (I could not take out the Doviello units), but they could not crack me either - my goal was to build up experience points for those units.

Belanus and his small army proceeded south and redid the pillage/hit and run, and razing the Doviello city by the horse resource. They continued to patrol that area and further northward into Doviello lands to prevent Doviello expansion. They also managed to take out the Doviello city (and Lugh) by the northern copper resource.

This kept me from fighting a two-front war of attrition, which was what I ran into in my third failed attempt. Normally I would be beelining to that copper site too, but I concentrated on the horse instead because it was not subject to blizzards. All I needed to do was make sure that the Doviello would not reestablish themselves on that site. So Belenus continued to bounce from the north to the south on patrol.

In my valley, I built a second city by the wheat, and proceeded to create more archers while my capitol built a settler. A worker had been networking my cities with roads, and it built a road out to the horse. The archers and settler all headed west and met up with Belenus, and promptly built a city right on the horse resource. That city was able to quickly build horsemen, which went northward toward the copper. My worker proceeded to road up to that vacant copper site. I now have a settler en-route to that site, with a sizable force to defend it. Once I get swords, I will relieve the forces by my northern barbarian city, then based on what Belenus was able to see in his excursions into the remaining Doviello lands, I should be able to mop up the remaining cities.

Defeated on Prince! Well, I have to start again...
EDIT: On noble this time

I played on noble and the Doviello were not much of an treat because their capital focused on building wonders rather than units. The other AI spammed units at some point but i could just camp the first wave with my warriors in a conquered barb city outside of the valley. After that i took the doviello out with epona+troll with cityraider +archers since there was no copper or iron nearby.
The Ai was a bit smarter and got crossbow alot earlier than me. But for some reason it didnt produced that many of them and i could kill the second AI with my old SOD+my new swordmen cause of all the copper and iron by the doviello captal. So i killed them with ease. i only got stopped at some point when the barb started to send all his frostgiants at me. But the fireballs handled them easily and i got my first mammoths showing up. i spend the rest of the game exploring the map and finding that island with the last part of the godslayer. (even conquered every single city of the AI, including that weird capital at the very far north west.
The dragon first took me by surprise and got a city but was stopped by a large stack in the second city cause i got plenty of time when it first went all the way up to the upper left and then back to the mid of the map. It finally got killed by some anti melee promoted assasins at the same turn i killed mulcor himself.
I found it to be a bit to easy for most of the game. Maybe becasue it was rather straight forward. First destroy that civ, than that civ and then find some island and finally teach a single unit to go to a certain tile without being spotted.
The first part would have been harder if the fertile land was a bit more spread over the map. That would have made war more diffcult vs multiple ai since you would have had to defend and could attack in more than one direction.
Destroying utgard was very easy cause the last frostgiant left it defended only by a few animals vs my stack of 5 war mammoths.
The Dragon should ge blitz and march promotion and maybe more support units units when spawning.
Mulcorn should get some defedning units around him or something simualr. he is just a sitting duck that right now.

EDIT: Oh and about early game: i founded one city next to the weat. At first i placed some warrior at the chokepoints too but at the time the ai attacked me i already got that barb city. i dont know if it is always there. was a bit lucky when conquering it though. After that the AI concentrated on attacking this city and leveling my warrior(s). Later i founded a second city at the sea cause i thought i will be going to need ships. Only to learn that you cant buld any at all. After getting some decent SOD (see above) War was rather easy.

I got overwhelmed my first game on Noble. I tried expanding/exploring early and my expansion city got destroyed and my second settler got captured. I got attacked by Doviello, Illians and barbs and that was that.

My second game, I still destroyed the barb city thinking that wasn't a good location which was a mistake. I warrior rushed the weaker Doviello city and destroyed it. Lost 1-2 decently upgraded city raider warriors trying to move to their capital. Instead, I found another city which was small and had Lugh in it. I attacked it with my lone upgraded city raider warrior and 5 crappy ones. I was surprised when they gave up and happily accepted.

I made a ton of additional mistakes as well.
1. I wasn't as aggressive in having Epona attack frostlings at the start. I'm at the end now and with 5 combat promotions, her fireball is really powerful. It made the game easier.
2. I built a city near the copper near the Doviello lands. I couldn't string irrigation to it so it languished as a size 2 city. The Doviello were my allies but they didn't irrigate to it so I was stuck. I also had to build a city on the same exact spot as the barb city I destroyed. I built a city a bit to the north. Blizzards destroyed the grasslands and I eventually just let the barbs have it.
3. I didn't beeline for archers. Swordsmen are kinda useless and I built quite a few. That city near the copper was also using up maintenance money and was size 2 until late in the game. I don't have maceman yet and I need quite a few turns still to get iron. I already have mammoth riders, though.
4. After I got the Doviello, I did some expanding/exploring and Mulcarn got big and destroyed my ally and I wasn't able to help that much.
5. I built quite a lot of catapults. They were only somewhat useful. Epona fireballs and archer barrage are decent substitutes. The building to produce them was expensive and took too long to build. I think I should've delayed getting them or not bother at all.

Eventually, I built a lot of longbowmen and crossbowmen and had a bit of a stalemate with Mulcarn. I was slowly gaining the upper hand when he sent his reinforcements to capture Doviello's last city instead. He lost quite a few units getting their capital so I was able to recapture it quickly and raze one of their cities. With the Doviello capital under my control, I was able to spread irrigation to my 2 other cities and grow them a bit, though it wasn't really needed at that point. I had the upper hand and just slowly destroyed Mulcarn's cities one by one. I'm about to get the 3rd piece at this point.

I took two tries as well. I'm about to grab my 3rd piece at this point in my second game. Still made a lot of mistakes but I think I'm winning this one.

I found it quite easy, but that's probably because I'm used to using fireball warfare in ffh2...and maybe because a goody hut gave me knowledge of the ether only 10 turns in >_>. Yay early fireballs? :P

Love the scenario. Nice and brutally hard too.
Got overwhelmed in my first two games. I managed to "beat" it on the third. I didn't really beat it but after spending an entire night getting all three pieces on the only game I had managed to take out both the Mulcarn and Doviello, I went to save and accidentally hit Load. Haven't had the heart to try since then.

-I found the most useful hero to be Epona. If you head quite far Nor-West with a Scout there is a fortress type thing. Entering the square seems to give you Knowledge of the Ether (I stumbled upon it by chance in my first game using Epona for the tech bonus. It's given me Knowledge of the Ether for every game since).
-Never move units alone. In the beginning game I sent out all my units in pairs.
-Hit Doviello hard and fast. By the time I had Knowledge of the Ether and had a force strong enough (about 2-3 Warriors and Epona the Sorceress) the Barbarian town of Deluoc is big enough to seize. Take it, put a Warrior in there and move on. Harass them with Fireballs until you have maybe 3-4 Warriors and Epona, then soften up the capital and take it (Don't forget to bombard to lower the City Defence). I usually fortify my warriors just outside the city with Epona on the same stack hurling fireballs until it's weak enough.
-At the same time take control of the area just west with the frostling den, send two scouts or warriors. Scouts seem strong enough to take out frostling dens but keep them in pairs.
-Archery. Get it quickly. Archers and Longbowmen are INVALUABLE in this scenario. They make the single best city defenders and are still very strong on the attack. They should be your bread and butter.
-Taking the Doviello capital quickly and keeping it, ensures a Mammoth supply (At least it did for me) a very useful unit later on with 13 Strength.
-To the far west is an Ice Castle thing. Destroy it to stop Frost Giants coming along. I got very lucky taking it out though so not much strategy here but to soften them up with archers and maybe use your hero.
-Assassins don't seem very good at anything other than killing Heros and taking out lone wandering melee units. Which is what they're there for I s'pose.

-Assassins don't seem very good at anything other than killing Heros and taking out lone wandering melee units. Which is what they're there for I s'pose. Well, if you hadn't taken out the frost giant castle, those assassins take them out like nothing else.

An interesting tactic to try with fireballs/skeletons, although it's a little bit of an AI exploit, is to summon them and then move them to an empty square next to the city. The AI will usually attack them (yes even the fireballs) and hopefully lose a unit in the process- if you've been sensible and pillaged all the roads, the unit that kills your fireball/skeleton will now be a sitting duck for your forces to dispose of.

I used this tactic to easily defeat the doviello early on (thanks to a raven marked warrior). Once the doviello are gone, the illians are hardly an issue at all.

I played this scenario on emperor level. After 50 turns or so I had to do a partial restart and go back to an old savegame (before founding my first new city), after that I had fun and eventually won in year 640. (65k points as final score). Loved the scenario, nice twist from vanilla civ. The only thing that puzzled me was figuring out how to make mammoth riders - pedia wasnt entirely clear...you have to get hunters to capture mammoths and sacrifice them right on the only source spot of ivory.

Actually, I'm pretty sure it doesn't matter where you sacrifice them. Mammoth camps create their own ivory resource.

It took me until yr500+ to win, but I took it very slow. First time on this scenario, and I played on Noble.


I chose the mage hero for the +Science. It was awesome to find out later that I could use a fireball with her, which made my defense easy from early on.

I did some initial building, then built a city in the South Western pass, blocking the route, and another city in the North Western pass, blocking that route. I stationed an archer in each, and gradually raised the defense in each city until I had 4 archers in each. Once I did this, I could afford to remove just about all of my units from the capital and just spam improvements (Cottages!) and buildings throughout the entire area.

I stayed there and researched at 100% until I had all the techs on the tree; that wait took a long, long, LONG time- but I ended up with a level 9 hero and a bunch of really good archers (level 3-9) by cycling them out of the city as attacks came in.

Once I could, I built 3 assassins to explore enemy territory and see what I was up against as well as plot out how I would take them out. I realized early on this was a bad strategy, and lost my assassins. I built another one and sent it out exploring unclaimed territory again (manually).

Found the ship captain, killed him easily and stole his Galleon. Took it towards the island, where just after I unloaded, the Eagle killed the galleon. I took advantage of this, and stole the item from the Volcano- which exploded and killed the NW part of my "wall" by blowing up the city. I moved on west with the item, ended up by a barbarian city- I killed the giant spider (By now, my Assassin had beast taming) and set it aside to heal. The very next turn, my assassin was killed by the frostlings in the city. I dropped the sheathe(?) in their city, and had to go reclaim it.

After spamming defense, I eventually ended up with 2 assassins made from the Children and one that had just been wandering around aimlessly. One of the Children had the movement and blizzard spell, the other had the eye spell.

With these, I was able to run around and farm experience while I explored the map (1 stack) and I ended up with Combat5, +2 Movement, Animal Taming, Frost Resisting, Blitzing, +30% Withdrawal assassins by the time I figured out where to go.

Captured one of the mammoths, and told it to head home. It got, literally, one tile outside of a safe city and was killed by barbarians! Anyways, the Assassins took out the city in the very NW corner, easily. Moved in, and using the giant spider to soften up, took the city and stole the sheathe back. Carried the sheathe all the way back to the capital, and dropped it off. Went back out, found where the Ice God was staying, started destroying Frostling huts, and capturing animals.

I ended up capturing a mammoth and getting it to +2 movement, where it was (again) killed just outside of my city by frostlings. The other one I caught I guarded with bears, wolves and spiders before sending them all home (and it did make it). I found out that the other pieces of the sword were inside cities- and found the Orb inside the little clearing. I stepped on top of it, and it became "mine". I decided to rest up and let my guys heal before picking it up, in case it would spawn something hard to kill by picking it up.

The very next turn, a wolf ran out of nowhere and stepped on top of my assassins- "killing" the orb, and it disappeared. It didn't come back. -_-

So... enslaved the wolf and used it as a scout to explore enemy territory again. After destroying the ice castle, I ran back home and began building an offensive force. With catapults and archers, along with my assassins and hero, I was able to easily take over a couple of cities with brief resting periods between captures. Eventually, the "Blue" civ capitulated (Sorry, I am terrible with remembering names) and swapped from -100 to +100 with me. I used them as a shield later, against the blue dragon, and after taking a few rest turns to replenish my army (This time, with lots and lots of Mammoths) I had 2 parts of the sword.

I moved in close and used 3 catapults, some barrage, and the fireball a couple of turns to weaken it up before taking the first "white" city, then the capital in a few turns. After picking that up, I took one of the mammoth raiders (Was a Children) and used the +Movement spell to rush it back to my capital and reforged the sword. Since I saved the Stag, earlier (Twice) the hero that spawned got to ride it. I got the message that the blue dragon was coming out, and began to rush toward the God of Ice, using the +Movement spell (along with my entire army) to speed the way.

Turns out, I couldn't use most of my army anyways, and they would've been better off defending against the dragon that took 5 cities on it's way over. Even fireballs wouldn't do anything, since they can't move into the same square as the God of Ice. I moved my stag-riding hero in, killed the god, and won.

Woo! That's a big spoiler.


All in all, defense was easy since I had a good strategy at the start; offense was a bit harder since I didn't have any Iron, Mammoths, Horses or Copper when I began moving out. At noble level, this played out pretty well. It definitely had an "epic" feel to it- lots of fun to play. Downloading FfH2 right now.

I found that after learning where the chancel was in my first game that the recon hero is best to start wiht; you can send him straight to the chancel, which will give you Knowledge of the Ether for free. Whenever you end up losing him you will be allowed to choose one of the remaining heroes, and the free tech means that Epona can upgrade and start casting fireball as soon as you get her.

Once I actually get some time to play computer games again, I just may have to try this rushing strategy.

I guess what I did was a rush... I found the scenario too easy. (Emperor or Immortal.) I thought barrage exploitive, Epona exploitive, and the Children exploitive. In addition to that - and maybe most importantly - I think I was pretty lucky, too.

OTOH, I had a good time. I actually finished the scenario and usually I just quit a civ game when I'm sure I'll win. (Not a MP game btw. :)) I generally don't enjoy scenarios but now I'm very much looking forward to Ice. AoI was full of fun things to do and try. I found the blizzard mechanic particularly interesting.

Hmm... come to think of it, I may try it again on Deity and see if I can get away with what I did before, or if the game'll spank me for my presumption. :)

If you rush and you're lucky you'll find it just as easy on deity

No problems at all when you use Epona.

Use your scouts to find the altar room north west of you starting position. It's directly north above the sheltered valley slightly northwest of the capital of the first enemy (forgot his name).

You'll find the aether knowledge technology, givin Epona instant fireballs.

Conquer all cities with Epona while producing warriors for garrisons against wandering frostlings.

Then win the game

Another nice idea feature is that you can unfreeze parts of the map if you manage to keep the blizzards away from the area for a time.

To do this, grab the succellus orb and run into each approaching snowstorm.

Sometime you get a great personality with a similiar ability. Promote that one to a scout or something else with long legs and play Sunbringer.

Seems to me that once you get Bowyers, you've pretty much secured your survival. Of course, lasting to that point is another matter. Managed to succeed at least to that point on Monarch (haven't gone on yet); couldn't quite get there on Emperor. Beaten, in fact, by that same technology (and whatever gives Crossbows).

Plus, it actually helps to let the endless waves of barb Frostlings assault your cities. Plant a city on a hill, stick a handful of good defenders and a Medic there, and let the experience pile up. That translates into uber-powerful Longbows that can maul just about anything that the Illians and Doviello throw at you.

My gosh. Just started playing this game last night on Noble. I'm about to start my fourth go through (I'm the step above Noble on BTS regular) without a single win to my credit. Boy, is it tough! I can't seem to expand, else if I expand, I cannot keep my cities. The copper and iron seems eons away, and settlers take FOREVER. Moreover the neighbor directly to the West keeps sending massive stacks and seems to have a HUGE tech advantage on me.

Guess it's time to read some FAQs and guides.

I guess my experience with the elves in FfH2 helped me ignore the lack of metals and concentrate on archers. I found it neither easy nor difficult (on monarch).