I suppose it's a case of . . .

Roster:

AgedOne - just played
markh (away from 25th - 31st October)
The-Hawk (skipped until 27th October)

Pariah................}
Sam..................} free to take it
drhirsch.............} and run with it
Harbourboy.........}

Ouch. Just looked at the save, and things are even worse than described here. +15 War Weariness?! It's a nightmare. Not sure we will even last the next 20 turns at this rate............

Ouch. Just looked at the save, and things are even worse than described here. +15 War Weariness?! It's a nightmare. Not sure we will even last the next 20 turns at this rate............

Yes, I did feel a bit like I was re-enacting the final scene of Butch Cassidy & The Sundance Kid. You know. Where they run out of the place where they've been holed up, guns blazing, to face the might of the Bolivian army lying in wait for them. I think we came to the same end.

At least, if not dead in 20 turns, we might be thrown off of lush land and be huddled up on our homeland waiting for the end.

I was very keen to finish my turn at the end, and am not at all inspired with the thought of going back in again. :eek:

Oh. One last smile. Did anyone have a look at the 'power graph' on the maintenance thread? That's one hell of a serious dip at the end!! :lol:

I'll wait to see if Pariah can play his turn promptly otherwise I'll pick it up later this evening. I believe the idea is to attack Sally now?

Feel free to play next, Sam. I'm a bit busy right now - I'll play after you.

Summary 1899 AD - 1910 AD
Signed peace with Izzy for the loss of Phoenician. :( Sally is quite close to us in techs. :( Noticed a couple of destroyers in his waters. Rocketry, Fascism & Electricity learnt. Researching Industrialism. Free Religion might be a good civic to have.

King Sam grudgingly signed the peace treaty handing over Phoenician to the hated Isabella. It seemed a poor way to reward the defenders of that city but the spies reports had been unequivocal. Isabella's power was rapidly rising. Still at least it was better than losing Kyoto, his major research centre. It had been a hard war. Towards the end it had been necessary to suspend research in order to run happiness at 50%. He took some pleasure in seeing persian culture completely surround Phoenician.

During the next few years Isabella took further indian cities. Eventually Asoka made peace after the loss of Calcutta. Meanwhile the persians built spaceship casings. Carl Gauss was born in Karakorum and apparently knows something about fision. The king is minded to have him settle in Karakorum instead.


http://i88.photobucket.com/albums/k182/mrprab/SGOTM05/Phoenician-1910AD.jpg



Turn 509/660 (1899 AD) [25-Oct-2007 17:11:55]

New Log Entries
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Turn 509/660 (1899 AD) [25-Oct-2007 18:59:28]
Infantry promoted: Combat II
Athens finishes: Artillery
Osaka grows: 10
Tabriz finishes: Destroyer
Izumo finishes: Artillery

IBT:
While defending in Mongolian territory at Phoenician, Machine Gun defeats (5.04/18): Spanish Artillery (Prob Victory: 76.0%)
While defending in Persian territory at Phoenician, Pikeman loses to: Spanish Cavalry (15.00/15) (Prob Victory: 54.9%)
Attitude Change: Qin Shi Huang(China) towards Temujin(Mongolia), from 'Cautious' to 'Annoyed'
Attitude Change: Qin Shi Huang(China) towards Isabella(Spain), from 'Friendly' to 'Pleased'
Attitude Change: Asoka(India) towards Cyrus(Persia), from 'Friendly' to 'Pleased'
Attitude Change: Cyrus(Persia) towards Temujin(Mongolia), from 'Pleased' to 'Cautious'
Attitude Change: Cyrus(Persia) towards Qin Shi Huang(China), from 'Pleased' to 'Cautious'

Turn 510/660 (1900 AD) [25-Oct-2007 19:17:39]
Athens begins: Infantry (10 turns)
Tabriz begins: Machine Gun (15 turns)
Izumo begins: Machine Gun (32 turns)
Machine Gun promoted: Combat III
While attacking in Mongolian territory at Phoenician, Artillery defeats (0.90/18): Spanish Cavalry (Prob Victory: 67.6%)
Infantry promoted: Combat II
While attacking in Mongolian territory at Osaka, Infantry defeats (6.40/20): Spanish Cavalry (Prob Victory: 78.3%)
Kolhapur begins: Machine Gun (24 turns)
While attacking in Spanish territory at Zaragoza, Infantry loses to: Spanish Infantry (5.00/20) (Prob Victory: 71.4%)
Cavalry promoted: Combat I
Infantry promoted: Combat II
Old Sarai finishes: Machine Gun
Corinth finishes: Destroyer
Tiflis grows: 7

IBT:
Attitude Change: Isabella(Spain) towards Saladin(Arabia), from 'Pleased' to 'Cautious'

Turn 511/660 (1901 AD) [25-Oct-2007 19:36:56]
Old Sarai begins: Infantry (21 turns)
Corinth begins: Infantry (12 turns)
While attacking in Mongolian territory at Kyoto, Artillery defeats (11.52/18): Spanish Cavalry (Prob Victory: 72.8%)
While attacking in Mongolian territory at Kyoto, Artillery loses to: Spanish Cavalry (9.00/15) (Prob Victory: 50.0%)
While attacking in Mongolian territory at Kyoto, Infantry defeats (11.00/20): Spanish Cavalry (Prob Victory: 99.5%)
While attacking in Mongolian territory at Kyoto, Infantry defeats (16.80/20): Spanish Artillery (Prob Victory: 94.4%)
Artillery promoted: Barrage I
While attacking in Spanish territory at Zaragoza, Artillery loses to: Spanish Infantry (8.60/20) (Prob Victory: 21.6%)
Infantry promoted: Combat III
Artillery promoted: Barrage I
Hinduism has spread: Phoenician
Phoenician lost
Hinduism has spread: Phoenician (Spanish Empire)
Tech learned: Rocketry
Kolhapur grows: 5
Kolhapur finishes: SAM Infantry

IBT:
Tech learned: Fascism
Attitude Change: Qin Shi Huang(China) towards Isabella(Spain), from 'Pleased' to 'Friendly'
Attitude Change: Asoka(India) towards Temujin(Mongolia), from 'Cautious' to 'Annoyed'
Attitude Change: Isabella(Spain) towards Temujin(Mongolia), from 'Furious' to 'Annoyed'

Turn 512/660 (1902 AD) [25-Oct-2007 19:59:53]
Research begun: Electricity (12 Turns)
Kyoto finishes: Infantry

IBT:

Turn 513/660 (1903 AD) [25-Oct-2007 20:13:15]
Kyoto begins: Grocer (9 turns)
Karakorum finishes: Destroyer
Beshbalik finishes: Infantry
Corinth grows: 11
Osaka finishes: Artillery
Tabriz's borders expand

IBT:

Turn 514/660 (1904 AD) [25-Oct-2007 20:19:44]
Karakorum begins: University (18 turns)
Beshbalik begins: Artillery (29 turns)
Osaka begins: Infantry (11 turns)
Turfan grows: 10
Ning-hsia grows: 15
Osaka's borders expand

IBT:

Turn 515/660 (1905 AD) [25-Oct-2007 20:29:44]
Ning-hsia finishes: Artillery

IBT:
Civics Change: Asoka(India) from 'Vassalage' to 'Bureaucracy'

Turn 516/660 (1906 AD) [25-Oct-2007 20:34:22]
Ning-hsia begins: Infantry (5 turns)
Samarqand finishes: Infantry
Kolhapur finishes: Theatre

IBT:

Turn 517/660 (1907 AD) [25-Oct-2007 20:37:44]
Samarqand begins: Harbor (4 turns)
Kolhapur begins: Work Boat (6 turns)
New Sarai grows: 10
Kyoto grows: 8

IBT:
Tech learned: Electricity

Turn 518/660 (1908 AD) [25-Oct-2007 20:42:27]
Research begun: Industrialism (19 Turns)
Carl Friedrich Gauss (Great Scientist) born in Karakorum
Athens finishes: Infantry
Yokohama finishes: Artillery

IBT:

Turn 519/660 (1909 AD) [25-Oct-2007 20:46:16]
Athens begins: SAM Infantry (10 turns)
Yokohama begins: Work Boat (7 turns)
Karakorum finishes: University
Athens grows: 13

IBT:
Asoka(India) and Isabella(Spain) have signed a peace treaty
Attitude Change: Asoka(India) towards Isabella(Spain), from 'Furious' to 'Annoyed'
Attitude Change: Isabella(Spain) towards Asoka(India), from 'Furious' to 'Annoyed'

Turn 520/660 (1910 AD) [25-Oct-2007 20:52:38]
Karakorum begins: Artillery (14 turns)



Turn 509, 1899 AD: Saladin's Golden Age has ended...
Turn 509, 1899 AD: Isabella's Artillery (18.00) vs Temujin's Machine Gun (20.70)
Turn 509, 1899 AD: Combat Odds: 24.0%
Turn 509, 1899 AD: (Extra Combat: +20%)
Turn 509, 1899 AD: (Plot Defense: +85%)
Turn 509, 1899 AD: (Fortify: +5%)
Turn 509, 1899 AD: (City Attack: -45%)
Turn 509, 1899 AD: (Combat: -50%)
Turn 509, 1899 AD: Temujin's Machine Gun is hit for 18 (82/100HP)
Turn 509, 1899 AD: Temujin's Machine Gun is hit for 18 (64/100HP)
Turn 509, 1899 AD: Isabella's Artillery is hit for 21 (79/100HP)
Turn 509, 1899 AD: Temujin's Machine Gun is hit for 18 (46/100HP)
Turn 509, 1899 AD: Isabella's Artillery is hit for 21 (58/100HP)
Turn 509, 1899 AD: Temujin's Machine Gun is hit for 18 (28/100HP)
Turn 509, 1899 AD: Isabella's Artillery is hit for 21 (37/100HP)
Turn 509, 1899 AD: Isabella's Artillery is hit for 21 (16/100HP)
Turn 509, 1899 AD: Isabella's Artillery is hit for 21 (0/100HP)
Turn 509, 1899 AD: Temujin's Machine Gun has defeated Isabella's Artillery!
Turn 509, 1899 AD: Isabella's Cavalry (16.50) vs Temujin's Pikeman (17.89)
Turn 509, 1899 AD: Combat Odds: 45.1%
Turn 509, 1899 AD: (Extra Combat: -10%)
Turn 509, 1899 AD: (Extra Combat: +20%)
Turn 509, 1899 AD: (Plot Defense: +85%)
Turn 509, 1899 AD: (Fortify: +25%)
Turn 509, 1899 AD: (Combat: +125%)
Turn 509, 1899 AD: Temujin's Pikeman is hit for 18 (66/100HP)
Turn 509, 1899 AD: Temujin's Pikeman is hit for 18 (48/100HP)
Turn 509, 1899 AD: Temujin's Pikeman is hit for 18 (30/100HP)
Turn 509, 1899 AD: Temujin's Pikeman is hit for 18 (12/100HP)
Turn 509, 1899 AD: Temujin's Pikeman is hit for 18 (0/100HP)
Turn 509, 1899 AD: Isabella's Cavalry has defeated Temujin's Pikeman!

Turn 510, 1900 AD: Temujin's Artillery (18.00) vs Isabella's Cavalry (16.50)
Turn 510, 1900 AD: Combat Odds: 67.6%
Turn 510, 1900 AD: (Extra Combat: +10%)
Turn 510, 1900 AD: Temujin's Artillery is hit for 19 (81/100HP)
Turn 510, 1900 AD: Temujin's Artillery is hit for 19 (62/100HP)
Turn 510, 1900 AD: Temujin's Artillery is hit for 19 (43/100HP)
Turn 510, 1900 AD: Temujin's Artillery is hit for 19 (24/100HP)
Turn 510, 1900 AD: Isabella's Cavalry is hit for 20 (80/100HP)
Turn 510, 1900 AD: Isabella's Cavalry is hit for 20 (60/100HP)
Turn 510, 1900 AD: Isabella's Cavalry is hit for 20 (40/100HP)
Turn 510, 1900 AD: Isabella's Cavalry is hit for 20 (20/100HP)
Turn 510, 1900 AD: Temujin's Artillery is hit for 19 (5/100HP)
Turn 510, 1900 AD: Isabella's Cavalry is hit for 20 (0/100HP)
Turn 510, 1900 AD: Temujin's Artillery has defeated Isabella's Cavalry!
Turn 510, 1900 AD: Temujin's Infantry (24.00) vs Isabella's Cavalry (18.00)
Turn 510, 1900 AD: Combat Odds: 78.3%
Turn 510, 1900 AD: (Extra Combat: -20%)
Turn 510, 1900 AD: (Extra Combat: +20%)
Turn 510, 1900 AD: Temujin's Infantry is hit for 17 (83/100HP)
Turn 510, 1900 AD: Isabella's Cavalry is hit for 23 (77/100HP)
Turn 510, 1900 AD: Temujin's Infantry is hit for 17 (66/100HP)
Turn 510, 1900 AD: Isabella's Cavalry is hit for 23 (54/100HP)
Turn 510, 1900 AD: Isabella's Cavalry is hit for 23 (31/100HP)
Turn 510, 1900 AD: Temujin's Infantry is hit for 17 (49/100HP)
Turn 510, 1900 AD: Temujin's Infantry is hit for 17 (32/100HP)
Turn 510, 1900 AD: Isabella's Cavalry is hit for 23 (8/100HP)
Turn 510, 1900 AD: Isabella's Cavalry is hit for 23 (0/100HP)
Turn 510, 1900 AD: Temujin's Infantry has defeated Isabella's Cavalry!
Turn 510, 1900 AD: Temujin's Artillery (18.00) vs Isabella's Infantry (30.00)
Turn 510, 1900 AD: Combat Odds: 3.8%
Turn 510, 1900 AD: (Fortify: +25%)
Turn 510, 1900 AD: (City Defense: +45%)
Turn 510, 1900 AD: (City Attack: -20%)
Turn 510, 1900 AD: Temujin's Artillery is hit for 25 (75/100HP)
Turn 510, 1900 AD: Temujin's Artillery is hit for 25 (50/100HP)
Turn 510, 1900 AD: Isabella's Infantry is hit for 15 (85/100HP)
Turn 510, 1900 AD: Isabella's Infantry is hit for 15 (70/100HP)
Turn 510, 1900 AD: Temujin's Artillery is hit for 25 (25/100HP)
Turn 510, 1900 AD: Temujin's Artillery (14.65) vs Isabella's Infantry (22.75)
Turn 510, 1900 AD: Combat Odds: 9.1%
Turn 510, 1900 AD: (Extra Combat: -10%)
Turn 510, 1900 AD: (Fortify: +25%)
Turn 510, 1900 AD: (City Defense: +20%)
Turn 510, 1900 AD: (City Attack: -20%)
Turn 510, 1900 AD: Isabella's Infantry is hit for 17 (74/100HP)
Turn 510, 1900 AD: Temujin's Artillery is hit for 23 (51/100HP)
Turn 510, 1900 AD: Isabella's Infantry is hit for 17 (57/100HP)
Turn 510, 1900 AD: Temujin's Artillery is hit for 23 (28/100HP)
Turn 510, 1900 AD: Isabella's Infantry is hit for 17 (40/100HP)
Turn 510, 1900 AD: Temujin's Artillery is hit for 23 (5/100HP)
Turn 510, 1900 AD: Temujin's Infantry (24.00) vs Isabella's Infantry (20.74)
Turn 510, 1900 AD: Combat Odds: 71.4%
Turn 510, 1900 AD: (Extra Combat: -20%)
Turn 510, 1900 AD: (Fortify: +25%)
Turn 510, 1900 AD: (City Defense: +45%)
Turn 510, 1900 AD: (Combat: -25%)
Turn 510, 1900 AD: (Combat: +25%)
Turn 510, 1900 AD: Temujin's Infantry is hit for 21 (79/100HP)
Turn 510, 1900 AD: Isabella's Infantry is hit for 18 (43/100HP)
Turn 510, 1900 AD: Temujin's Infantry is hit for 21 (58/100HP)
Turn 510, 1900 AD: Temujin's Infantry is hit for 21 (37/100HP)
Turn 510, 1900 AD: Isabella's Infantry is hit for 18 (25/100HP)
Turn 510, 1900 AD: Temujin's Infantry is hit for 21 (16/100HP)
Turn 510, 1900 AD: Temujin's Infantry is hit for 21 (0/100HP)
Turn 510, 1900 AD: Isabella's Infantry has defeated Temujin's Infantry!
Turn 510, 1900 AD: Karakorum celebrates "We Love the Monarch Day"!!!
Turn 510, 1900 AD: Antoine Laurent Lavoisier has been born in Barcelona!
Turn 510, 1900 AD: Cyrus has completed SS Casing!

Turn 511, 1901 AD: Temujin's Artillery (19.80) vs Isabella's Cavalry (16.56)
Turn 511, 1901 AD: Combat Odds: 72.8%
Turn 511, 1901 AD: (Extra Combat: -10%)
Turn 511, 1901 AD: (Extra Combat: +20%)
Turn 511, 1901 AD: Temujin's Artillery is hit for 18 (82/100HP)
Turn 511, 1901 AD: Temujin's Artillery is hit for 18 (64/100HP)
Turn 511, 1901 AD: Isabella's Cavalry is hit for 21 (71/100HP)
Turn 511, 1901 AD: Isabella's Cavalry is hit for 21 (50/100HP)
Turn 511, 1901 AD: Isabella's Cavalry is hit for 21 (29/100HP)
Turn 511, 1901 AD: Isabella's Cavalry is hit for 21 (8/100HP)
Turn 511, 1901 AD: Isabella's Cavalry is hit for 21 (0/100HP)
Turn 511, 1901 AD: Temujin's Artillery has defeated Isabella's Cavalry!
Turn 511, 1901 AD: Temujin's Artillery (18.00) vs Isabella's Cavalry (18.00)
Turn 511, 1901 AD: Combat Odds: 50.0%
Turn 511, 1901 AD: (Extra Combat: +20%)
Turn 511, 1901 AD: Temujin's Artillery is hit for 20 (80/100HP)
Turn 511, 1901 AD: Isabella's Cavalry is hit for 20 (80/100HP)
Turn 511, 1901 AD: Temujin's Artillery is hit for 20 (60/100HP)
Turn 511, 1901 AD: Temujin's Artillery is hit for 20 (40/100HP)
Turn 511, 1901 AD: Temujin's Artillery is hit for 20 (20/100HP)
Turn 511, 1901 AD: Isabella's Cavalry is hit for 20 (60/100HP)
Turn 511, 1901 AD: Temujin's Artillery is hit for 20 (0/100HP)
Turn 511, 1901 AD: Isabella's Cavalry has defeated Temujin's Artillery!
Turn 511, 1901 AD: Temujin's Infantry (24.00) vs Isabella's Cavalry (10.80)
Turn 511, 1901 AD: Combat Odds: 99.5%
Turn 511, 1901 AD: (Extra Combat: -20%)
Turn 511, 1901 AD: (Extra Combat: +20%)
Turn 511, 1901 AD: Temujin's Infantry is hit for 15 (85/100HP)
Turn 511, 1901 AD: Temujin's Infantry is hit for 15 (70/100HP)
Turn 511, 1901 AD: Isabella's Cavalry is hit for 25 (35/100HP)
Turn 511, 1901 AD: Temujin's Infantry is hit for 15 (55/100HP)
Turn 511, 1901 AD: Isabella's Cavalry is hit for 25 (10/100HP)
Turn 511, 1901 AD: Isabella's Cavalry is hit for 25 (0/100HP)
Turn 511, 1901 AD: Temujin's Infantry has defeated Isabella's Cavalry!
Turn 511, 1901 AD: Temujin's Infantry (24.00) vs Isabella's Artillery (16.20)
Turn 511, 1901 AD: Combat Odds: 94.4%
Turn 511, 1901 AD: (Extra Combat: -20%)
Turn 511, 1901 AD: Isabella's Artillery is hit for 23 (67/100HP)
Turn 511, 1901 AD: Isabella's Artillery is hit for 23 (44/100HP)
Turn 511, 1901 AD: Temujin's Infantry is hit for 16 (84/100HP)
Turn 511, 1901 AD: Isabella's Artillery is hit for 23 (21/100HP)
Turn 511, 1901 AD: Isabella's Artillery is hit for 23 (0/100HP)
Turn 511, 1901 AD: Temujin's Infantry has defeated Isabella's Artillery!
Turn 511, 1901 AD: Temujin's Artillery (11.16) vs Isabella's Infantry (15.12)
Turn 511, 1901 AD: Combat Odds: 21.6%
Turn 511, 1901 AD: (Plot Defense: +1%)
Turn 511, 1901 AD: (Fortify: +25%)
Turn 511, 1901 AD: (City Defense: +20%)
Turn 511, 1901 AD: (City Attack: -20%)
Turn 511, 1901 AD: Temujin's Artillery is hit for 23 (39/100HP)
Turn 511, 1901 AD: Temujin's Artillery is hit for 23 (16/100HP)
Turn 511, 1901 AD: Isabella's Infantry is hit for 17 (43/100HP)
Turn 511, 1901 AD: Temujin's Artillery is hit for 23 (0/100HP)
Turn 511, 1901 AD: Isabella's Infantry has defeated Temujin's Artillery!
Turn 511, 1901 AD: You have made peace with Isabella!
Turn 511, 1901 AD: You have discovered Rocketry!
Turn 511, 1901 AD: Karakorum celebrates "We Love the Monarch Day"!!!
Turn 511, 1901 AD: You have trained a SAM Infantry in Kolhapur. Work has now begun on a Theatre.
Turn 511, 1901 AD: Cyrus has completed SS Casing!
Turn 511, 1901 AD: You have discovered Fascism!

Turn 512, 1902 AD: Tabriz celebrates "We Love the Monarch Day"!!!
Turn 512, 1902 AD: Cyrus has completed SS Casing!

Turn 513, 1903 AD: Tabriz celebrates "We Love the Monarch Day"!!!
Turn 513, 1903 AD: The borders of Tabriz have expanded!
Turn 513, 1903 AD: Cyrus has completed SS Casing!

Turn 514, 1904 AD: The borders of Osaka have expanded!
Turn 514, 1904 AD: Karachi has been captured by the Spanish Empire!!!
Turn 514, 1904 AD: Cyrus has completed SS Casing!

Turn 515, 1905 AD: Asoka adopts Bureaucracy!

Turn 517, 1907 AD: New Sarai has grown to size 10
Turn 517, 1907 AD: You have discovered Electricity!

Turn 518, 1908 AD: Carl Friedrich Gauss has been born in Karakorum!
Turn 518, 1908 AD: Athens will grow to size 13 on the next turn

Turn 519, 1909 AD: Karakorum will grow to size 12 on the next turn
Turn 519, 1909 AD: Athens has grown to size 13
Turn 519, 1909 AD: Calcutta has been captured by the Spanish Empire!!!
Turn 519, 1909 AD: Asoka has made peace with Isabella!

Good recovery Sam. I was sceptical of our chances of living out the day to be honest. What are we playing for now? Highest score we can achieve?

Good recovery Sam. I was sceptical of our chances of living out the day to be honest. What are we playing for now? Highest score we can achieve?

Something like that. :crazyeye:

Maybe Cyrus and Isabella will go down in a fiery apocalypse as they destroy each other.

For the record

Roster:

Sam - just played
Pariah - UP
The-Hawk (skipped until this weekend - are you back yet?)
drhirsch - on deck (unless The-Hawk is available)
Harbourboy
AgedOne
markh (away from 25th - 31st October)

I'll get on it by Sunday night, I promise. Anyone else want to go before me?

Anyone else want to go before me?

I ran out of time in my last turnset so I'll play a few more turns.

Summary 1910 AD - 1930 AD
Got a bit carried away and played another 20 turns :blush: We now know Industrialism (tanks are being built) and Communism. Revolted to Free Religion and Free Market although rather stupidly not at the same time. :blush: Currently researching Flight for gunships. Qin came along and demanded 360 :gold:. :mad: Decided to pay up. I prefer us to have control of when hostilities start rather than the AI. Both Qin & Izzy have completed Apollo. Cyrus completed a couple of thrusters and three gorges dam. :( Izzy has forgotten about our mutual struggle against Asoka and is now furious with us. :rolleyes: This may another reason why Izzy is furious with us. :lol:


http://i88.photobucket.com/albums/k182/mrprab/SGOTM05/Phoenician-1930AD.jpg



Turn 520/660 (1910 AD) [27-Oct-2007 13:49:09]
Karakorum grows: 12
Ning-hsia finishes: Infantry
Samarqand finishes: Harbor
Tabriz finishes: SAM Infantry
Kyoto finishes: Grocer

IBT:
State Religion Change: Asoka(India) from 'Buddhism' to 'Taoism'
State Religion Change: Isabella(Spain) from 'Judaism' to 'no State

Religion'
Attitude Change: Qin Shi Huang(China) towards Temujin(Mongolia), from 'Cautious' to

'Annoyed'
Attitude Change: Asoka(India) towards Temujin(Mongolia), from 'Cautious' to

'Annoyed'
Attitude Change: Saladin(Arabia) towards Asoka(India), from 'Annoyed' to

'Pleased'
Attitude Change: Isabella(Spain) towards Asoka(India), from 'Annoyed' to

'Cautious'
Attitude Change: Isabella(Spain) towards Saladin(Arabia), from 'Cautious' to

'Pleased'
Attitude Change: Cyrus(Persia) towards Temujin(Mongolia), from 'Pleased' to

'Cautious'
Attitude Change: Cyrus(Persia) towards Qin Shi Huang(China), from 'Pleased' to

'Cautious'
Civics Change: Isabella(Spain) from 'Vassalage' to 'Free Speech'
Civics Change: Isabella(Spain) from 'Theocracy' to 'Free Religion'

Turn 521/660 (1911 AD) [27-Oct-2007 13:51:39]
Ning-hsia begins: Artillery (6 turns)
Samarqand begins: Granary (3 turns)
Tabriz begins: Destroyer (18 turns)
Kyoto begins: Factory (14 turns)
Turfan finishes: Artillery
Corinth finishes: Infantry
Yokohama grows: 11
Tiflis finishes: Infantry

IBT:

Turn 522/660 (1912 AD) [27-Oct-2007 13:58:30]
Turfan begins: Work Boat (5 turns)
Corinth begins: Artillery (13 turns)
Tiflis begins: Forge (13 turns)
Tiflis grows: 8
Kolhapur finishes: Work Boat

IBT:
Attitude Change: Isabella(Spain) towards Temujin(Mongolia), from 'Annoyed' to

'Furious'

Turn 523/660 (1913 AD) [27-Oct-2007 14:02:44]
Kolhapur begins: Granary (6 turns)
Samarqand finishes: Granary

IBT:

Turn 524/660 (1914 AD) [27-Oct-2007 14:07:18]
Samarqand begins: SAM Infantry (15 turns)
New Sarai finishes: Infantry
Yokohama finishes: Work Boat
Osaka finishes: Infantry
Kolhapur's borders expand

IBT:

Turn 525/660 (1915 AD) [27-Oct-2007 14:12:17]
New Sarai begins: Work Boat (8 turns)
Yokohama begins: Harbor (9 turns)
Osaka begins: Artillery (13 turns)
Turfan finishes: Work Boat
Ning-hsia finishes: Artillery
Izumo's borders expand

IBT:

Turn 526/660 (1916 AD) [27-Oct-2007 14:17:08]
Turfan begins: Harbor (6 turns)
Ning-hsia begins: Infantry (5 turns)
Karakorum grows: 13
Hyderabad grows: 4

IBT:
Attitude Change: Saladin(Arabia) towards Asoka(India), from 'Pleased' to

'Cautious'
Civics Change: Asoka(India) from 'Theocracy' to 'Organized Religion'

Turn 527/660 (1917 AD) [27-Oct-2007 14:24:36]
New Sarai finishes: Work Boat

IBT:
Tech learned: Industrialism

Turn 528/660 (1918 AD) [27-Oct-2007 14:28:34]
New Sarai begins: Library (23 turns)
Research begun: Flight (20 Turns)
Hyderabad begins: Lighthouse (30 turns)
Athens finishes: SAM Infantry
New Sarai grows: 8
Tiflis grows: 9
Izumo grows: 9
Kolhapur finishes: Granary

IBT:

Turn 529/660 (1919 AD) [27-Oct-2007 14:33:16]
Athens begins: Tank (12 turns)
Kolhapur begins: Harbor (8 turns)

IBT:

Turn 530/660 (1920 AD) [27-Oct-2007 14:40:12]

IBT:
Civics Change: Temujin(Mongolia) from 'Paganism' to 'Free Religion'

Turn 531/660 (1921 AD) [27-Oct-2007 14:44:00]

IBT:

Turn 532/660 (1922 AD) [27-Oct-2007 14:45:16]
Karakorum finishes: Artillery
Turfan finishes: Harbor
Ning-hsia finishes: Infantry

IBT:

Turn 533/660 (1923 AD) [27-Oct-2007 14:46:40]
Karakorum begins: Harbor (4 turns)
Turfan begins: Tank (25 turns)
Ning-hsia begins: Tank (7 turns)
Old Sarai finishes: Infantry
Osaka grows: 11
Kyoto grows: 9

IBT:

Turn 534/660 (1924 AD) [27-Oct-2007 14:50:30]
Old Sarai begins: Tank (27 turns)
Corinth grows: 12
Kyoto finishes: Factory

IBT:
Attitude Change: Qin Shi Huang(China) towards Temujin(Mongolia), from 'Annoyed' to

'Cautious'
Attitude Change: Isabella(Spain) towards Cyrus(Persia), from 'Cautious' to

'Pleased'
Attitude Change: Cyrus(Persia) towards Isabella(Spain), from 'Cautious' to

'Pleased'

Turn 535/660 (1925 AD) [27-Oct-2007 15:00:08]
Kyoto begins: Tank (9 turns)
Karakorum finishes: Harbor
Turfan grows: 11
Corinth finishes: Artillery
Yokohama finishes: Harbor
Samarqand's borders expand
Tiflis finishes: Forge

IBT:
Hinduism has spread: Phoenician (Spanish Empire)
Hinduism has spread: Phoenician (Persian Empire)

Turn 536/660 (1926 AD) [27-Oct-2007 15:02:04]
Karakorum begins: Tank (15 turns)
Corinth begins: Tank (14 turns)
Yokohama begins: Artillery (33 turns)
Tiflis begins: Tank (13 turns)
Ning-hsia grows: 16
Kolhapur grows: 6

IBT:
Tech learned: Communism

Turn 537/660 (1927 AD) [27-Oct-2007 15:04:33]

IBT:
Civics Change: Temujin(Mongolia) from 'Mercantilism' to 'Free Market'

Turn 538/660 (1928 AD) [27-Oct-2007 15:07:50]

IBT:
Civics Change: Qin Shi Huang(China) from 'Nationhood' to 'Vassalage'

Turn 539/660 (1929 AD) [27-Oct-2007 15:08:34]
Karakorum grows: 14
Tiflis grows: 10

IBT:
Attitude Change: Saladin(Arabia) towards Asoka(India), from 'Cautious' to

'Pleased'

Turn 540/660 (1930 AD) [27-Oct-2007 15:13:22]



Turn 520, 1910 AD: Asoka converts to Taoism!
Turn 520, 1910 AD: Isabella adopts Free Speech!
Turn 520, 1910 AD: Isabella adopts Free Religion!

Turn 524, 1914 AD: The borders of Kolhapur have expanded!
Turn 524, 1914 AD: William T. G. Morton has been born in Kushans!
Turn 524, 1914 AD: Cyrus has completed SS Thrusters!

Turn 525, 1915 AD: The borders of Izumo have expanded!
Turn 525, 1915 AD: J. S. Bach has been born in Beijing!

Turn 526, 1916 AD: Asoka adopts Organized Religion!

Turn 527, 1917 AD: Cyrus has completed SS Thrusters!
Turn 527, 1917 AD: You have discovered Industrialism!

Turn 529, 1919 AD: Qin Shi Huang has completed Apollo Program!

Turn 530, 1920 AD: The revolution has begun!!!
Turn 530, 1920 AD: Temujin adopts Free Religion!
Turn 530, 1920 AD: Cyrus has completed SS Thrusters!
Turn 530, 1920 AD: Cyrus has completed The Three Gorges Dam!

Turn 531, 1921 AD: The anarchy is over! Your government is re-established.

Turn 532, 1922 AD: Isabella has completed Apollo Program!

Turn 535, 1925 AD: The borders of Samarqand have expanded!

Turn 536, 1926 AD: Tiflis will grow to size 10 on the next turn
Turn 536, 1926 AD: You have discovered Communism!

Turn 537, 1927 AD: The revolution has begun!!!
Turn 537, 1927 AD: Temujin adopts Free Market!
Turn 537, 1927 AD: Wang Anshi has been born in Santiago!

Turn 538, 1928 AD: The anarchy is over! Your government is re-established.
Turn 538, 1928 AD: Qin Shi Huang adopts Vassalage!

Turn 539, 1929 AD: Karakorum has grown to size 14
Turn 539, 1929 AD: Athens will grow to size 14 on the next turn
Turn 539, 1929 AD: Tiflis has grown to size 10
Turn 539, 1929 AD: Deal Canceled: Stone to Saladin for Sugar
Turn 539, 1929 AD: Isabella has completed SS Casing!

I'm available today. Pariah, I've got it. I'll play a turnset in the next couple of hours.

OK, I got in 20 turns. Summary:



Built a Caravel (whipped it to boot ;) ) so we could spy on Sally.
Mecca has 6 infantry, 8 arty, 7 cavalry, 3 Samis. Najran (his island city to our east) has only an inf and a sami.
He also has a pretty strong navy (destroyers and a battleship). However, we should be able to invade none-the-less. We can sit outside his cultural borders then DOW and land in one turn.
Building a stack in case someone wants to have at Sally. I even stripped some of the higher quality units on Cyrus' side of lush island. Face it, with his power curve, if he DOW's on us, we will lose all of those lush island cities anyhow. I did continue building units near Izzy (and left them there).
Our invasion force on home island is now 11 tanks, 8 inf, 2 samis, and 11 arty. Two tanks are in transit. Once the in-transits arrive, I believe we will have enough transportation for 39 units.
Qin DOW's on Asoka, Asoka's capital is now on an isolated island.
Cyrus goes to cautious because of close borders. I decide we can't really afford having him DOW, so I trade marble for GPT and gift him one of our sleeping workers. He is back to pleased.
We research flight, plastics, radio. Working towards Mech Inf (or Modern Armour).
Cyrus has Engine, Life Support, Stasis Chamber left to build.
Finished in 1950... and we got the "100 turns to go" message.



New Log Entries
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Turn 540/660 (1930 AD) [27-Oct-2007 12:23:07]
Research begun: Plastics (11 Turns)
Research begun: Radio (11 Turns)
Research begun: Satellites (11 Turns)
Research begun: Composites (11 Turns)
Research begun: Plastics (11 Turns)
Research begun: Radio (11 Turns)
Research begun: Computers (11 Turns)
Research begun: Robotics (11 Turns)
Research begun: Flight (5 Turns)
Ning-hsia finishes: Tank
Athens grows: 14
Kolhapur finishes: Harbor
Attitude Change: Asoka(India) towards Temujin(Mongolia), from 'Cautious' to 'Annoyed'
Attitude Change: Asoka(India) towards Saladin(Arabia), from 'Cautious' to 'Pleased'
Attitude Change: Isabella(Spain) towards Temujin(Mongolia), from 'Annoyed' to 'Furious'
Attitude Change: Cyrus(Persia) towards Temujin(Mongolia), from 'Pleased' to 'Cautious'
Attitude Change: Cyrus(Persia) towards Qin Shi Huang(China), from 'Pleased' to 'Cautious'

Turn 541/660 (1931 AD) [27-Oct-2007 12:32:20]
Ning-hsia begins: Tank (6 turns)
Kolhapur begins: Caravel (15 turns)
Tank promoted: Combat I
Osaka finishes: Artillery
Samarqand finishes: SAM Infantry

Turn 542/660 (1932 AD) [27-Oct-2007 12:34:42]
Osaka begins: Tank (15 turns)
Samarqand begins: Tank (17 turns)
SAM Infantry promoted: Combat II
Artillery promoted: Combat I
Artillery promoted: Barrage I
Transport promoted: Flanking I
Tabriz finishes: Destroyer
Izumo grows: 10
Hyderabad's borders expand
Tech learned: Flight

Turn 543/660 (1933 AD) [27-Oct-2007 12:38:41]
Tabriz begins: Tank (16 turns)
Research begun: Plastics (7 Turns)
Research begun: Radio (7 Turns)
Research begun: Satellites (7 Turns)
Research begun: Composites (7 Turns)
Research begun: Plastics (7 Turns)
Yokohama grows: 12

Turn 544/660 (1934 AD) [27-Oct-2007 12:41:00]
Beshbalik finishes: Artillery
Athens finishes: Tank
Kyoto finishes: Tank
Izumo finishes: SAM Infantry
Hyderabad grows: 5

Turn 545/660 (1935 AD) [27-Oct-2007 12:41:49]
Beshbalik begins: Tank (25 turns)
Athens begins: Tank (12 turns)
Kyoto begins: Tank (10 turns)
Izumo begins: Tank (45 turns)
Tank promoted: Combat I
Artillery promoted: Barrage I
Tank promoted: Combat I
SAM Infantry promoted: Combat II
Artillery promoted: Barrage I
Artillery promoted: Barrage I
Artillery promoted: Barrage I
Artillery promoted: Barrage I
Artillery promoted: Barrage I
Galleon promoted: Flanking I
Tabriz grows: 13

Turn 546/660 (1936 AD) [27-Oct-2007 12:46:13]
Infantry promoted: Medic I
Ning-hsia finishes: Tank
New Sarai grows: 9
Osaka grows: 12

Turn 547/660 (1937 AD) [27-Oct-2007 12:47:17]
Ning-hsia begins: Tank (6 turns)
Tank promoted: Combat I
Tech learned: Plastics
Tiflis finishes: Tank
Kyoto grows: 8

Turn 548/660 (1938 AD) [27-Oct-2007 12:48:45]
Research begun: Radio (13 Turns)
Research begun: Satellites (13 Turns)
Research begun: Composites (13 Turns)
Research begun: Radio (13 Turns)
Tiflis begins: Tank (10 turns)
Tank promoted: Combat I
New Sarai finishes: Library
Kolhapur finishes: Caravel

Turn 549/660 (1939 AD) [27-Oct-2007 12:50:54]
New Sarai begins: Tank (34 turns)
Kolhapur begins: Tank (45 turns)
Attitude Change: Isabella(Spain) towards Temujin(Mongolia), from 'Furious' to 'Annoyed'

Turn 550/660 (1940 AD) [27-Oct-2007 12:52:48]
Tiflis grows: 11

Turn 551/660 (1941 AD) [27-Oct-2007 12:53:27]
Infantry promoted: Medic I
Infantry promoted: Combat II
Infantry promoted: Combat II
Infantry promoted: Combat II
Infantry promoted: Combat II
Ning-hsia finishes: Tank
Qin Shi Huang(China) declares war on Asoka(India)
Attitude Change: Qin Shi Huang(China) towards Asoka(India), from 'Cautious' to 'Annoyed'
Attitude Change: Asoka(India) towards Qin Shi Huang(China), from 'Cautious' to 'Furious'

Turn 552/660 (1942 AD) [27-Oct-2007 12:59:05]
Ning-hsia begins: Tank (6 turns)
Tank promoted: Combat I
Attitude Change: Isabella(Spain) towards Temujin(Mongolia), from 'Annoyed' to 'Furious'

Turn 553/660 (1943 AD) [27-Oct-2007 13:02:16]
Turfan grows: 12
Turfan finishes: Tank
Corinth finishes: Tank
Kyoto finishes: Tank
Kolhapur grows: 6

Turn 554/660 (1944 AD) [27-Oct-2007 13:03:32]
Turfan begins: Tank (18 turns)
Corinth begins: Tank (16 turns)
Kyoto begins: Tank (9 turns)
Tank promoted: Combat I
Tank promoted: Combat I
Tank promoted: Combat I
Karakorum finishes: Tank
Tabriz grows: 14

Turn 555/660 (1945 AD) [27-Oct-2007 13:05:01]
Karakorum begins: Tank (17 turns)
Tank promoted: Combat I
Infantry promoted: Combat II
Athens finishes: Tank

Turn 556/660 (1946 AD) [27-Oct-2007 13:09:03]
Athens begins: Tank (12 turns)
Tank promoted: Combat I
Infantry promoted: Combat II
Tech learned: Radio
New Sarai grows: 10
Osaka finishes: Tank
Attitude Change: Cyrus(Persia) towards Temujin(Mongolia), from 'Cautious' to 'Pleased'

Turn 557/660 (1947 AD) [27-Oct-2007 13:10:48]
Research begun: Satellites (13 Turns)
Research begun: Composites (13 Turns)
Research begun: Satellites (13 Turns)
Research begun: Computers (16 Turns)
Research begun: Robotics (16 Turns)
Research begun: Satellites (13 Turns)
Research begun: Composites (13 Turns)
Research begun: Computers (16 Turns)
Osaka begins: Tank (15 turns)
Tank promoted: Combat I
Ning-hsia finishes: Tank
Tabriz finishes: Tank
Tiflis finishes: Tank

Turn 558/660 (1948 AD) [27-Oct-2007 13:13:17]
Ning-hsia begins: Tank (6 turns)
Tabriz begins: Tank (16 turns)
Tiflis begins: Tank (10 turns)
Tank promoted: Combat I
Tank promoted: Combat I
Tank promoted: Combat I
Transport promoted: Combat I
Karakorum grows: 15
Samarqand finishes: Tank

Turn 559/660 (1949 AD) [27-Oct-2007 13:17:24]
Samarqand begins: Tank (17 turns)
Tank promoted: Combat I
Athens grows: 15

Turn 560/660 (1950 AD) [27-Oct-2007 13:33:49]

Built a Caravel


:eek: I didn't even realise we could still build caravels! I assumed that they were obsolete with frigates. :confused:

Looking at the Sally attack forces it looks like we can take down Mecca's defence immediately after DoW with the destroyers and frigate, attack with arty from the ships to weaken the defence and then attack from the ships with the tanks. Should be pretty devastating. :evil:

:eek: I didn't even realise we could still build caravels! I assumed that they were obsolete with frigates. :confused:

Yep, I got a real chuckle out of this... building a caravel instead of a destroyer. Because of the spying capability, it is a pretty useful thing to have.

I like your plan for attacking mecca! If we can kill the city on one turn (killing his navy while it is in port), our transports might even live to fight another day.

gift him one of our sleeping workers

I would never have thought of doing that.

I think we should give serious thought to optional 20 turn turnsets in the next game. They do seem to ensure that things keep moving along nicely.

Who's having the next go then?

Who's having the next go then?

Roster:

Sam
Pariah - UP (says he'll get to it by Sunday night)
The-Hawk - just played
drhirsch - on deck
Harbourboy
AgedOne
markh (away from 25th - 31st October

I think we should give serious thought to optional 20 turn turnsets in the next game. They do seem to ensure that things keep moving along nicely.

:hmm: It's certainly easier to do this in the late game when the broad outlines of what to do are fairly clear although reporting can suffer as a result.

Equally perhaps we need to be a bit more ruthless at skipping team members if they don't post a 'got it' within 24 hours or submit their turnset with 72 hours. The flip side is that team members should post at an early stage if they are likely to have problems meeting the deadline rather than posting towards the end of the 72 hours.

Is it still sunday night where pariah lives? ;-)

Anyway, I'll check back in a few hours, and if you don't mind, I'll grab the save and play some turns.

Is it still sunday night where pariah lives? ;-)

Anyway, I'll check back in a few hours, and if you don't mind, I'll grab the save and play some turns.

I'm not quite sure where Pariah lives but time's a getting on. Go for it.

I am looking forward to the report on our Arabic campaign.:)

Actually we did quite well with 10 turns / set. We only had a very few times a delay in a "got it" or playing the turns. We just played this game much too far.

Downloading and playing now.

We took Mecca and Damascus.

We know Satellites and are resaerching Composites.

We lost all destroyers but no transports, but sunk 6 arabian destroyers and 2 battleships while capturing Mecca. We lost a couple of tanks and SAM Infantry. Saladin hast at least 15-20 gunships, a lot of them probably promoted ^^

This is the reason we made peace.

A second Invasion fleet is currently being loaded at Kyoto, this time with more SAM Infantry on board. Saladin seems to like gunships very much :-(

We took Mecca and Damascus Medina.


Corrected your post. :D Looks like a successful initial assault. :goodjob: I just can't believe that Cyrus snuck in a city on Sally's land. :rolleyes:


We lost all destroyers but no transports, but sunk 6 arabian destroyers and 2 battleships while capturing Mecca. We lost a couple of tanks and SAM Infantry. Saladin hast at least 15-20 gunships, a lot of them probably promoted ^^


Sigh. The AI really do go to town building lots of units don't they? And as for that wretched worker building a farm over that town next to Mecca. :cry:

EDIT: Those UN resolutions haven't exactly helped our cause either by forcing us out of slavery. :(

OK Geezers... what can I say? I'm a jerk. I broke my promise, let things get on top of me (metaphorically & literally) and let you all down. :( I guess you're not too happy with me, but I still say you've done really well, Sam & Drhirsch.

Now I AM about to take a turnset, and hope I can redeem myself a little. :sad:

Summary:
Took 12 turns. I changed 2 civics and went back to war with Saladin, hoping to finish him off; unfortunately, I seriously underestimated his helicopter & naval forces. Captured Baghdad, destroyed Damascus, and lost Medina back to him. Not much has canged on Lushland.

Turn 1 (1971):
*Osaka: artillery -> fighter.
*Abstain from Diplomatic Victory vote.
*Big stack in Kyoto split to Izumo & Osaka. Multiple promotions.
*3 artillerys in Istakhr go to Mecca. Tank & SAM inf. retained as Home Island guard.

Turn 2 (1972):
*Turfan: artillery -> fighter.
*Kyoto: SAM inf. -> tank.

Turn 3 (1973):
*Kolhapur: tank -> infantry.
*Trade banana to Qin for 8 gpt.
*Tiflis: SAM inf. -> Confucian temple.
*Queue West Point in Kyoto.
*Change civics to Universal Suffrage (for production) & State Property (for minimal city maintenance costs). 3 turns Anarchy.
*Demand 200 :gold: from Saladin. He capitulates!

Turn 4 (1974):
*Queue bank in Turfan & theatre in Old Sarai.

Turn 5 (1975):
*Still making +38 gpt despite Anarchy.
*Queue gunship & university in Tabriz.
*Vote for single currency.
*3 transports in Samarquand, 1 sent on to Athens.

Turn 6 (1976):
*Queue gunship & market in Corinth.
*Single currency vote succeeds.
*Government restored. Research up to 60%, +29 gpt.
*Arabian gunships multiplying, becoming a real threat. Decide to declare war again before Saladin gets stronger.
*Lose 3 tanks & 2 artillerys, killing 4 gunships (1 worker captured).

IBT:
*Worker lost again. 1 Arab gunship killed.
*Japanese pillage village & hamlet NW of Osaka.

Turn 7 (1977):
*Sign Open Borders with Asoka.
*Culture rate up to 30% to combt war unhappiness; research down to 50%, -78 gpt.
*Athens: tank -> Christian temple.
*SAM inf. kills Arabian gunship.
*Main stack (10 tanks & 5 artillerys) heads for Damascus.

Turn 8 (1978):
*Ning-hsia: SAM inf. -> bomber.
*Arabian fighters & navy pillaging around Old Sarai & New Sarai.

IBT:
*Arabian gunships kill 3 tanks & 1 SAM inf.! Medina left undefended, surrounded by enemy.

Turn 9 (1979):
*Attack & raze Damascus. :mad:
*Land new SAM inf. in Mecca.
*Vote against global Environmentalism civic.

IBT:
*Medina retaken by Arabians. :blush: Cultural borders instantly enclose Mecca.
*Our transport with 2 SAM inf.s sunk by Arabian destroyer. :(

Turn 10 (1980):
*Mecca starving.
*Global Environmentalism resolution fails.

IBT:
*3 Arabian gunships lose to our defenders.
*Arabian battleships bombarding Turfan.

Turn 11 (1981):
*Ning-hsia: bomber -> battleship.
*Bomber starts air strikes against enemy battleships.
*Osaka: fighter -> gunship.
*Attack and capture Baghdad. 1 tank lost, 1 worker captured.

IBT:
*1 tank lost in field.

Turn 12 (1982):
*Queue battleship in Karakorum.
*Samarquand: SAM inf. -> bomber.
*Hyderabad: lighthouse -> SAM inf.

Game saved.

I tried to enclose the Session Turn Log as a spoiler, but get the following error message:
The text that you have entered is too long (33272 characters). Please shorten it to 30000 characters long.

Pariah, no problem :) . We are in "grab it and go" mode and got in three turnsets while you were tied up.

Turnsets of 20, 20, and 28 will finish the game. Hard to believe Cyrus won't launch before then.

Looks like Harbourboy, AgedOne, and Sam are the next three up to bat (assuming Mark is still unavailable). First come, first serve!!! I'd suggest one of the three of you post an "I got it" and go for it.

My only suggestion at this point... let's not do anything tooooo crazy and get ourselves wiped out. We want to stick around on the slim chance that Cyrus does not launch in the next 68 turns. Who knows, maybe we can survive to the end?

Mark, if you are available to play on the 31st, I'd suggest you play "safety" (warning: US football term). Hopefully the other three will have finished by then, but if they haven't, pick up the game and run it out to the end. I'll peek in on the 31st in the evening (east coast US time) just to be sure. ;)

Got it. Playing Now.

163298

Turn 592, 1982 AD: Logging Game to File: SGOTM5Log.txt
Turn 592, 1982 AD: 68 turns to go!
Turn 592, 1982 AD: You have trained a Artillery in Karakorum. Work has now begun on a Battleship.
Turn 592, 1982 AD: Osaka celebrates "We Love the President Day"!!!
Turn 592, 1982 AD: Isabella has completed SS Docking Bay!

Turn 593, 1983 AD: You have trained a Fighter in Turfan. Work has now begun on a Bank.
Turn 593, 1983 AD: Osaka celebrates "We Love the President Day"!!!
Turn 593, 1983 AD: You have trained a Fighter in Tiflis. Work has now begun on a Tank.
Turn 593, 1983 AD: Saladin's Gunship (28.80) vs Temujin's Tank (11.34)
Turn 593, 1983 AD: Combat Odds: 99.9%
Turn 593, 1983 AD: (Extra Combat: -20%)
Turn 593, 1983 AD: (Extra Combat: +10%)
Turn 593, 1983 AD: (Combat: -100%)
Turn 593, 1983 AD: Saladin's Gunship is hit for 13 (87/100HP)
Turn 593, 1983 AD: Temujin's Tank is hit for 29 (48/100HP)
Turn 593, 1983 AD: Temujin's Tank is hit for 29 (19/100HP)
Turn 593, 1983 AD: Temujin's Tank is hit for 29 (0/100HP)
Turn 593, 1983 AD: Saladin's Gunship has defeated Temujin's Tank!

Turn 594, 1984 AD: Saladin's Gunship (25.05) vs Temujin's Tank (12.60)
Turn 594, 1984 AD: Combat Odds: 98.0%
Turn 594, 1984 AD: (Extra Combat: -20%)
Turn 594, 1984 AD: (Combat: -100%)
Turn 594, 1984 AD: Saladin's Gunship is hit for 14 (73/100HP)
Turn 594, 1984 AD: Saladin's Gunship is hit for 14 (59/100HP)
Turn 594, 1984 AD: Temujin's Tank is hit for 28 (62/100HP)
Turn 594, 1984 AD: Saladin's Gunship is hit for 14 (45/100HP)
Turn 594, 1984 AD: Temujin's Tank is hit for 28 (34/100HP)
Turn 594, 1984 AD: Temujin's Tank is hit for 28 (6/100HP)
Turn 594, 1984 AD: Temujin's Tank is hit for 28 (0/100HP)
Turn 594, 1984 AD: Saladin's Gunship has defeated Temujin's Tank!
Turn 594, 1984 AD: Isabella has completed SS Cockpit!

Turn 595, 1985 AD: Osaka celebrates "We Love the President Day"!!!
Turn 595, 1985 AD: Saladin's Artillery (18.00) vs Temujin's Infantry (41.00)
Turn 595, 1985 AD: Combat Odds: 0.5%
Turn 595, 1985 AD: (Extra Combat: +30%)
Turn 595, 1985 AD: (Plot Defense: +45%)
Turn 595, 1985 AD: (Fortify: +25%)
Turn 595, 1985 AD: (City Attack: -20%)
Turn 595, 1985 AD: (River Attack: +25%)
Turn 595, 1985 AD: Saladin's Artillery is hit for 29 (71/100HP)
Turn 595, 1985 AD: Temujin's Infantry is hit for 13 (87/100HP)
Turn 595, 1985 AD: Saladin's Artillery is hit for 29 (42/100HP)
Turn 595, 1985 AD: Saladin's Artillery is hit for 29 (13/100HP)
Turn 595, 1985 AD: Temujin's Infantry is hit for 13 (74/100HP)

Turn 596, 1986 AD: Osaka celebrates "We Love the President Day"!!!
Turn 596, 1986 AD: The borders of Kolhapur have expanded!

Turn 597, 1987 AD: Tiflis will grow to size 13 on the next turn
Turn 597, 1987 AD: Saladin's Gunship (24.48) vs Temujin's Tank (11.93)
Turn 597, 1987 AD: Combat Odds: 99.3%
Turn 597, 1987 AD: (Extra Combat: -20%)
Turn 597, 1987 AD: (Extra Combat: +10%)
Turn 597, 1987 AD: (Combat: -100%)
Turn 597, 1987 AD: Temujin's Tank is hit for 27 (54/100HP)
Turn 597, 1987 AD: Saladin's Gunship is hit for 14 (71/100HP)
Turn 597, 1987 AD: Temujin's Tank is hit for 27 (27/100HP)
Turn 597, 1987 AD: Saladin's Gunship is hit for 14 (57/100HP)
Turn 597, 1987 AD: Temujin's Tank is hit for 27 (0/100HP)
Turn 597, 1987 AD: Saladin's Gunship has defeated Temujin's Tank!
Turn 597, 1987 AD: You have discovered Fission!

Turn 598, 1988 AD: The enemy has been spotted near Baghdad!
Turn 598, 1988 AD: You have made peace with Saladin!
Turn 598, 1988 AD: This war with Saladin no longer serves any purpose. Let's end it here and now! All we are saying is Give Peace a Chance!
Turn 598, 1988 AD: New Sarai celebrates "We Love the President Day"!!!
Turn 598, 1988 AD: Baghdad's cultural boundary is about to expand.

Turn 599, 1989 AD: New Sarai celebrates "We Love the President Day"!!!
Turn 599, 1989 AD: Baghdad's cultural boundary is about to expand.

Turn 600, 1990 AD: The borders of Baghdad have expanded!
Turn 600, 1990 AD: Kolhapur will grow to size 10 on the next turn
Turn 600, 1990 AD: Cyrus has completed SS Stasis Chamber!

Warren G. Harding - 1991.

We kept revising our objectives until finally we met our current one: complete the game before the deadline. Go us!

I'm free for a turn tonight. Probably about 21:00 GMT.
Maybe I'll get to see the launch!!

Too late, AgedOne. You have to get up pretty early to see the rockets in this game.

Turn 600, 1990 AD: Cyrus has completed SS Stasis Chamber!


:( I may be wrong but I have a feeling that was the last item Cyrus needed to build. :cry:

EDIT: Of course it helps if I look at the screenshot first. :blush: Oh well, time to try and work out where we went wrong.

EDIT 2: @Harbourboy, do you have the autosave from 1989 and if so can you post it here?

A good Jedi Geezer always trusts his feelings...........

So that's that.

Cliche time:

It's not winning, it's the taking part that counts...
We fought the good fight...
Good job, everyone..
Better luck next time, to us all.

Congratulations on finishing. :)

Good job hanging in guys. I was impressed with the staying power!

:hmm: No need to open each thread to check which teams have finished. You just need to see which threads have Harbourboy's name against them. :lol:

Good work we finished it at least and hopefully we are in for the Wooden Spoon.:)

Good work we finished it at least and hopefully we are in for the Wooden Spoon.:)

I haven't looked their thread yet but I suspects the Misfits may be the favourites for that. :cry:

I can't believe how much better some of the other teams did than us. Those domination and conquest victories are awesome.

So, who's up for the next one?

I can't believe how much better some of the other teams did than us. Those domination and conquest victories are awesome.


I haven't had a chance to really look at the threads yet. More to the point have you identified where we took the wrong options?


So, who's up for the next one?

I suspect I'll be one of the usual suspects. :D

Some of the other teams were ultra precise in their approach to this, much more analytical than us. We seemed to make decisions based on hunches, whereas the elite guys actually worked out the maths behind their strategies.

I think on a wider matter about this game, the best teams had a definite plan for dealing with the crippling war weariness. They had elaborate tactics based on gifting away cities for peace then taking them back again.

As mentioned earlier, they also settled the home island sooner.

The OSS thread is an interesting read, not to mention fairly short. Briefly they skipped most of the techs. In fact they ran for a long time at 0% science. On the last save of their's that I can download they don't have Alphabet and both Construction & HA came very late, probably via the barbs. They beelined BW & IW which made the barbs much more dangerous to the AI e.g. the barbs took Barcelona and in fact kept it till the end of the game. As a result they had much more success getting peace although they were probably at war with between two to three AI at any one time. They just built loads of swords, with a few axes initially, and rampaged around lush island. They also made me look an amateur on the :whipped: front.

Wow! I'm late again.
If I'd been up at 6 this morning I would have seen the rockets at dawn.
Now I finally kick the kids off a PC and what do I find? The shows over and the chairs are being piled up in the corner. :(

Hey, let's not get despondent about it. . .
We tried hard and kicked a few butts from time to time.
We gave it sweat and blood for nearly 3 months.

Perhaps we Geezers do prefer to fly by the seats of our pants rather than number-crunching. It's certainly one of the flaws I recognise in my own SP games!

Perhaps we should do a bit of careful recruitment ready for next time. Let's kidnap ourselves a mathematical guru :D Does anyone know any? Could they be prised away from their current team?

Well fought Geezers.

You stuck at it and were committed to finish the game before the deadline. :goodjob:

1991 eh?

That reminds me of Vanilla Ice, Home Alone movies and...

...

...

...

Sid Meier's Civilization!

Yeah, I don't think we ever got our head around the Barbarian Allies / All War aspect of the game, and tried to play it like a normal game.

I've been reading more of the other teams and all the good teams quickly realised that a Bronze Working beeline would cause absolute havoc with the other teams with all the Barbarian axeman rampaging around the countryside all over the world.

Yeah, I don't think we ever got our head around the Barbarian Allies / All War aspect of the game, and tried to play it like a normal game.

Very true. :( Our science path was far too long. I think we probably worried too much about building up the economy in the early game. Early BW would certainly have given our barb allies a chance to cause more mayhem before the rest of the AI starting beefing up their defences. Although some teams went for HBR & Construction it's interesting that OSS team managed the vast bulk of their campaign without it.

We probably started settling cities too early which just meant that we started leaking :gold: and slowing down research. The next step is to try and apply some of the lessons from this game to the next one. :crazyeye:

I've been reading more of the other teams and all the good teams quickly realised that a Bronze Working beeline would cause absolute havoc with the other teams with all the Barbarian axeman rampaging around the countryside all over the world.

I think that we were aware that barb axes would make life more difficult for the AI. Unfortunately we didn't realise quite how much impact this would have in the very early game and so we didn't beeline BW. :cry:

I agree with all the comments on tactical things we did wrong in this scenario. However, you don't win or lose on tactics. Some teams attacked from the east, some from the west. Some went for Sally, others went for Alex, some went conquest, some domination. However for the most part, they still beat the AI's. I think our two biggest issues as a team are:

- we don't truly align on a strategy and stick with it throughout the game
- even during stretches where we are somewhat aligned on a strategy, we don't focus on it when we are making all of the zillions of tactical decisions that come up during our turns

Basically we are wishy-washy, and this means waste... wasted builds (e.g. build a temple when we are warmongering), wasted research on non-critical techs, building the wrong kind of units versus our plan (e.g. defensive units vs. offensive), etc. In a tougher scenario (or at a higher level), waste can put you hopelessly behind the AI's. One thing I've learned in playing HOF is focus = speed.

I think the root cause is we have diverse playing styles. Some evidence... How many times on a specific decision did the following occur?

- one group of players says "do xxx"
- another group of players says "do yyy"
- "xxx" and "yyy" were not minor variations on a common theme, they might have been very fundamentally different (ie. build a keshik or build a temple)
- the person who is up tries to decide which choice had the most votes (or decides for himself)

We very rarely had situations where we had full consensus on a decision. "Majority rules" does not equal "alignment". And this is in cases where we discuss the decision. For the many decisions we each must make without discussion during our turns, we are all over the map. This means from turnset to turnset, our path wavers... we are not rowing in the same direction. As a result, we play to a much lower skill level as a team than we would as individuals.

This is an inherent challenge in succession games. I suspect the really good teams have three key characteristics:

- everyone on the team is a strong player individually (of course)
- they all align on a strategy, all of their individual decisions are in complete support of that strategy... they focus (all are rowing in the same direction)
- all are able to play a similar style (i.e. warmonger vs. builder, risk tolerance)

By the way, please don't take this as a criticism of our team... I think our comraderie is great and we have fun playing (and this is most important of all ;) ). Just offering my 2 cents as to why we don't get the result we expect.

For sure. I saw in one of the team threads that they had been on the PHONE to each other during the turnset, so they were definitely aligned on their turnsets.

We most definitely were wishy washy. This game was only Monarch level, and the unique aspects of the scenario aside, we should have been able to make a better showing at this level, given that there are people here who routinely win at Emperor level.

How do you get consensus though, without spending weeks on each decision? There is a balance between speed and accuracy here. I'm not sure exactly what the answer is, in a way that would still keep things light and fun.

But I'm still dead keen to be part of this team for the next game (when is that?) so hopefully we can find a way to be a bit more focussed.

On more specific matters, I do note that we did not even manage to do some of the things that are in the Civ IV 101 basic training manual. For example:
- where was our super science city?
- where was our GP farm?
- were we using cottage or specialist economy?
- etc

And I still think that some early tactical decisions did cost us. If we had pulled off tricks like the barbarian axe rush, the galley chain, or the contrived AI peace offerings, we might have been able to offset some of our lack of focus.

But Hawk is right. I don't think ever really got consensus on our victory condition objectives at the start. I think some of us still thought that Cultural was a worthy path.

Anyway, it has still been fun.

A few thoughts from one of the 'New Boys' of the Geezers team.

I absolutely agree that were were not consistent in our strategy from one turnset to the next, and many times we got ourselves into that 'voting situation' on what was to happen in the upcoming 10 turns - which just isn't going to get us anywhere.

I'm probably the weakest player - measured in terms of my SP play. I can only beat Monarch level 50% of the time and have virtually no wins (if any) against higher levels. However, part of my reason for asking to join the team was that the discussion would help to bring my own level up. I felt that I had already come on a bit by reading through your previous SGOTM entries. It struck me that there was a lot of discussion of a very detailed nature in that game, and that it would help to focus on the important decisions.

Funny how it turned out!

I think we need to find a way of operating as a unit. And by that, I hope it doesn't mean "The best player makes all the decisions, and the rest of the team follow". Though that might well lead to success, it might as well be a single player tournament and the rest of us get nothing out of it.

Perhaps a few ground rules are needed before next time. We print our strategy up - and what that entails in term of builds and focus - and repeat it before each turnset (if necessary). We don't change this strategy unless it becomes essential.

Then perhaps a way of making decisions, giving more weight to the better players - but not everything!

But it has to be fun. I didn't join just to bring my game along. I wanted to be part of it.

Yes, it is pointless playing "Succession Game" if you are just going to robotically follow the best player's instructions.

But we would also like to at least successfully complete a game.

Oh well, I'm sure we'll work something out.

I'm probably the weakest player - measured in terms of my SP play. I can only beat Monarch level 50% of the time and have virtually no wins (if any) against higher levels.


:lol: And here's me still trying to get to grips with Noble.....


I think we need to find a way of operating as a unit. And by that, I hope it doesn't mean "The best player makes all the decisions, and the rest of the team follow". Though that might well lead to success, it might as well be a single player tournament and the rest of us get nothing out of it.


In one of our SGOTMs where Klarius was in the team the game was somewhat like that although not quite so extreme. Admittedly Klarius had come from playing Civ3 SGOTMs where you had to really micromanage the game in great (boring?) detail.


Perhaps a few ground rules are needed before next time. We print our strategy up - and what that entails in term of builds and focus - and repeat it before each turnset (if necessary). We don't change this strategy unless it becomes essential.


Perhaps part of our problem is that we start zooming through our turns before we've really decided what is our strategy. We obviously need to play a few turns to find out what our immediate area looks like and which AI are about and where they are. But then we need to decide the strategy and what we need to do to accomplish that strategy. Some of this is repeating AgedOne's points but in different words.

I'm probably the weakest player - measured in terms of my SP play. I can only beat Monarch level 50% of the time and have virtually no wins (if any) against higher levels. .

Don't feel too behind, mate - I still routinely play at Prince level, and I don't usually win.

Like you, I figured that co-operating with a team of HoF players could help me improve. But as The-Hawk said, it's enjoying it which matters most.

I agree with most of what is said, but on page 7 we agreed on domination. Obviously we lost track on that and played unfocused. Our teching was poor as we ruined our economy and never got it running. Furthermore the captain obviously made a bad job and failed to remind the team what we were going for. :cry:

I totally agree that the fun should come first. For me any virtual awards are not important, but two games in a row we did not meet the objective. I think for the next one we have to put our heads together to get that done again.:) Still this should not mean that the best player takes the decisions here.

So, who is up for the next one ?

OK, I'll stick around.

I'm in. If I'm selected.

So, who is up for the next one ?

I intend to carry on.

Since there isn't even a signup thread in place I suspect it will be a few weeks before the next game starts. Of course the other question is whether it will be Warlords or BTS. Most likely bet is Warlords as not everyone will have BTS and BTS is also more likely to have a patch to fix some of the hiccups in 3.13.

I'ld like a players role if you don't mind.

Like Hawk says focus is key and the top teams aren't afraid to stop play and discuss a situation when the need arises.

I play alone at Monarch. Based on my HOF stats, I'm stronger in conquest and weaker in domination, with the other wins in between. I fit into the Quatromaster range halfway between The-Hawk and Harbourboy.

Oh, I really couldn't quit after my rookie season.
I'm in for the next. (Once a Geezer, . . . !)

Don't use my Quattromaster status as anything to go by. Most of my high level wins were cheesey Incan rushes. My emperor domination gauntlet took me 35 attempts before the law of averages kicked in and everything went my way.

Take a look at my GOTM stats for a better indicator of my skills (something like 2 wins in a dozen games - and always ranked in the bottom 20%).

The next game won't be BTS, that's for sure - so dust off the Warlords disc because we'll be back in the land of Vassals and Unique Buildings.

I agree with most of what is said, but on page 7 we agreed on domination. Obviously we lost track on that and played unfocused.

Yes, I agree. We definitely agreed on domination as a victory condition. So maybe part of the problem is we all have different ideas of what strategies and tactics best support that goal. For me, on smaller maps, dom typically means... tech to a unit advantage (e.g. Keshiks versus archers), then stop teching, stop building infra, spam offensive units, go whup someone, don't stop whupping until the little window pops up and says "you win". However another approach (especially on a map like this) could be more of a builder strategy. Neither approach is "right", in fact both could have worked. However, I'm pretty sure flipping between the two approaches from turn to turn is pretty "wrong".

So, here is a suggestion. We certainly can't discuss every decision. However, as we make our broader strategic decisions, maybe we should take more time to discuss exactly what it means. For example, on page 7, after we settled on dom, we should have asked ourselves things like... given dom is the goal, what is our long term tech path? What are critical builds? What shouldn't we build? What techs don't we need? What types of units should we concentrate on? Do we need defensive units, or only offensive? Do we need a navy? I think these kinds of broad agreements would give all of us more context in our individual turnsets. The discussion would probably be very educational as well.

Furthermore the captain obviously made a bad job and failed to remind the team what we were going for. :cry:

Mark, I almost always find myself in agreement with your opinions. However, this is one of the most inaccurate things you've ever said. ;)

Still this should not mean that the best player takes the decisions here.

I don't even know who that is. I hope you didn't think I was inferring this... that would be completely against the geezer philosophy. Heck, for my part, I'm even nervous about offering constructive criticism of other folks turnsets (although I recognize constructive criticism may add to the educational value of the game). Last thing I want to do is make decisions for someone else.

So, who is up for the next one ?

I still stuggle with the disjointed feel of a succession game, I have trouble maintaining my "situational awareness" with the big gaps between turns. However, the moderators dream up outstanding scenarios and I enjoy the discussions as we grapple with them. This is a great bunch of folks to team with. I'm definitely up for another go. :goodjob:

I'm even nervous about offering constructive criticism of other folks turnsets

This is indeed educational. Your criticism of all the infrastructure building I did when we should have been building armies (somewhere in the middle of the game) was useful and I have applied that focus to some of my other games.

No matter how this turns out, I find that succession games do not actually take up that much time. There is a bit of analysis between turns but it does not take long to rattle off 10 or 20 turns so it doesn't really interfere with anything else I am doing. Having said that, maybe I should take more time over my turns and we might get a better result.......

IIRC in the early SGOTMs we used to post a broad outline of what we intended to do in our turnset for comment and agreement. As we have team members scattered across the time zones I don't know how feasible it would be to reinstate this. Certainly it would impact on how quickly team members could play their turnsets given the need to wait for about 24 hours before playing. OTOH it would probably help concentrate team members' minds on the main objectives and minimise the more :smoke: builds and moves.

The flip side is that other team members, or at a minimum the captain, need to respond to these plans otherwise it's just extra work for no return.

So, here is a suggestion. We certainly can't discuss every decision. However, as we make our broader strategic decisions, maybe we should take more time to discuss exactly what it means. For example, on page 7, after we settled on dom, we should have asked ourselves things like... given dom is the goal, what is our long term tech path? What are critical builds? What shouldn't we build? What techs don't we need? What types of units should we concentrate on? Do we need defensive units, or only offensive? Do we need a navy? I think these kinds of broad agreements would give all of us more context in our individual turnsets. The discussion would probably be very educational as well.

I cannot agree more with that and if I will be the captain again for the next one I will try to "moderate" and ask more of these questions to get us thinking more about the goals we intend to achieve in the turnsets.



I don't even know who that is. I hope you didn't think I was inferring this... that would be completely against the geezer philosophy. Heck, for my part, I'm even nervous about offering constructive criticism of other folks turnsets (although I recognize constructive criticism may add to the educational value of the game). Last thing I want to do is make decisions for someone else.

I just meant my statement as a general one and you should not abstain from constructive criticism. This helps a lot. ;)


I still stuggle with the disjointed feel of a succession game, I have trouble maintaining my "situational awareness" with the big gaps between turns. However, the moderators dream up outstanding scenarios and I enjoy the discussions as we grapple with them. This is a great bunch of folks to team with. I'm definitely up for another go. :goodjob:

The great setups the staff is presenting for these SGOTMs is what many players make them join. They are always different from the games one usually plays. I agree that it is sometimes difficult to stay in the game if it is played too slow, but we had a good pace in this one. I somehow never had the feeling that I was out of it.

For the next one we have so far :

Pariah
Sam
Harbourboy
AgedOne
The Hawk
Erik (Welcome !)
Mark

After reading through some different threads, I too feel were lacking playing as a unit. Some very impressive wins on the other teams - the idea of turning the other civs into junkies, like Murky Waters did, would had never crossed my mind.

I am more a builder-like type and I feel I did not very well adapt to the necessities of this game.

But I think we had to much decisions which were not aligned to a global plan (which we were somewaht missing) but to a local idea. At the beginning of the game or after major breakpoints (after discovering we're on an island or something) there should have been a discussion about a long-term plan.

For mid-term plans, for example research goals, we should estimate some numbers to see if they fit to our city/military development and economy.

OTOH being I am not quite sure if I had won this special game when playing alone (usually being able to beat emperor) because I wouldn't have been able to come up with a working strategy. So take my advices with a grain of salt :-)

Gents, if you want an excellent primer on how to execute a focused warmonger approach, read CFR's thread from the start. Outstanding. Those guys are in a different league.

Gents, if you want an excellent primer on how to execute a focused warmonger approach, read CFR's thread from the start. Outstanding. Those guys are in a different league.

I finished reading that earlier today. Balbes certainly takes no prisoners. :lol: I think 'focus' is not a strong enough word.

Joking aside I was really impressed by that thread. The scary thing is that they could have finished even earlier. :eek:

Balbes is a bit of a legend really. I still think the greatest game of Civ IV I have ever seen was his declaration of war on every single AI at once in the immortal level WOTM 7. He played an unbelievable game of cat and mouse with a handful of Persian immortals continually cutting off every enemy resource and running away.

At least we can win some sort of award for most posts made AFTER the game has finished......

At least we can win some sort of award for most posts made AFTER the game has finished......

:rotfl: I haven't checked but I strongly suspect MW have won that particular award hands down. :lol:

We haven't finished though.

And why can't we just do what CFR do? Everything they did sounds SO simple.

And why can't we just do what CFR do? Everything they did sounds SO simple.

I'm in the middle of that fascinating read at the moment.

I think one thing is that everyone's character is different, and we can't play the part of someone we're not (unless we're a skilled actor, and prepared to do that on a forum for 3 months!) That game seemed to be run by balbes, to my reading of it. Always pressing the others to be efficient, reminding them to input the comments that they agreed at the start (although the others nagged balbes to contribute sometimes when he dropped silent) The planning of the whole team was very exact. Calculating the relative benefits of attacking on T+1 or T+4, weighing up the defensive bonuses, march times across lush island!! Wow!
It's a harsh and uncompromising style at times, which might not go down well with a different bunch of players.

I think it's amusing that we - despite being the Geezers - are a much softer bunch of characters (that's what comes across in print anyhow) - who write at length but don't attack each other for playing below standard. Not sure how it would work if we were to change our spots. If, for example, markh started tearing strips off the previous turnset player and basically asking them what the hell they were playing at! I don't know how that would be taken. Could be anything from arguments, snapping into line, disappearances. . .


I think we could borrow some of their ideas though.

Maybe someone could (unofficially) appoint themselves chairman - responsible for gathering the ideas that were being put forward, and stating the current game aims before a turnset starts.

I think there could be something in the variable length turns that they used. First one up played 40 turns! Then once they settled, they went for 10 turns in peace and 5 + 5 in war.

However, they did suffer (!) from not being able to get players to take their turn regularly enough. They were only putting in 1 turn per week sometimes - and they recognised that this was going to run them out of time - and get drop-outs through boredom. However, of course, their game was planned so incisively that there just weren't that many turnsets in the game!


I'm back to finish the read now.

And why can't we just do what CFR do?


Well you can! You have the starting save and you know what CFR did so you can replay the game from the start and see how well you can replicate their result and timescale. :p

It's something I considered doing myself but currently I'm a bit sick of that map. If I have the spare time and no longer feel so fed up with that map I may well replay it.


Everything they did sounds SO simple.


Precisely, that's because it was. :D However being able to judge just how few techs are required, on a particular map, and making the best use of resources, particularly :hammers:, is not easy. If you read all of CFR's thread there are a number of occasions when they have discussions on this subject, not to mentions moans when resources are deemed to have been wasted or too much of a risk was taken.

That CFR thread is fascinating. We can surely adopt some of their principles (in a Geezery sort of way). Maybe more discussion and less blow by blow descriptions? Maybe more analysis of what will happen in 10 turns time if we take such and such action now?

Despite the fact that Balbes was clearly the ringleader, the others were quick to question him when he said something dubious (i.e. they did not always just accept him at face value).

I for one have no problem with someone ripping my turnset to pieces. It's the only way I'll learn.

I agree that sometimes it makes sense to play 8 or 12 turns instead of always 10, depending on the situation.

Yes, we should simply play 10-20 Turns, and stopping at a natural point, i. e. research completed, city taken and so on.

Ans some people should get over the habit to promote after building, you may notice, nobody else has done this :-)

The key thing about the CFR thread is that it lets us know how high the bar is. Whilst we can't hope to reach that height immediately at least we know some of the bulding blocks required to get there.

To an extent it highlights the truth of the saying 'failure to plan is planning to fail'.

However being able to judge just how few techs are required, on a particular map, and making the best use of resources, particularly :hammers:, is not easy.


Yes, thats the point.


If you read all of CFR's thread there are a number of occasions when they have discussions on this subject, not to mentions moans when resources are deemed to have been wasted or too much of a risk was taken.

And yhey had there economic problems too, I remeber they were runing at -11 gpt @ 0% in one time. Actually many teams were on the verge of an economic collapse. Anticipating this 20-50 turns before and take some measures for the future economic problems beforehand is the real mastery :-)

How about this remarkable declaration from Balbes, just after they got Alphabet:

Domination vs conquest is still unclear. We'll have to see how quickly the AIs will spread when at peace. In both cases we should be aiming to finish in ~70 turns from now.

I'd love to see us make a prediction like that with such confidence!

I think that as well as the discussion, CFR puts in a lot of time behind the scenes. There are a number of points where they go into the source code for answers. Does anyone on this team know how to go into the SDK? MW also plays a very tight game with a lot of exceptional players but there's so much trash talk it would drive me nuts.

I think a team has to find it's own style and the Geezers are the local pub style of players. :beer:

Compared to me Balbes is a god (or a deity :-)), but it's just "normal" play, only it is executed very well. Surely different from my play based mostly on hunches and some very rough time estimates :-)

But I find the plan of Murky Waters way more impressive, just because I would never be able to come up with something like that:

Refined Gnejsian War Plan: Creating a World Full of Junkies

This plan superimposes on all of Gnejs' ideas.

Key Concepts
AIs with 3 cities will accept faraway, pillaged, pop1 Junkie Cities.
We have 3 foreign continents with prime Junkie City real estate.
Capturing, gifting, and re-capturing 1) gives us :commerce: and maybe units, 2) avoids maintenance costs, 3) hurts AI economies, and 4) are easy to eliminate when we so choose.
The Basic Plan:
Goal 1: Turn every AI into a Junkie asap.
Goal 2: Prevent AIs from getting Feudalism by increasing their maintenance costs.
Goal 3: When all AIs are fully addicted Junkies, just raze cities.
Goal 4: Administer the lethal dose.

Phase 1: Making Junkies. For example:
TeamSal captures a Sal city, pillages, plunders, rapes, and poprushus to pop1, then gifts to Prime Candidate (most threatening AI w/3 cities or less: has Hereditary Rule, has 3 cities and good :commerce:, whatever)
TeamIsaToku captures an Isa or Toku city and gifts to next Prime Candidate.
TeamQin...

The above sequence of capture depends on when our Invasion Teams can target cities. In other words, for now it's just hypothetical. If we can go to Sal before Isa, then we do, because that starts the dominoes. Sal goes from 4>3 cities, becomes a Candidate. Then Isa goes from 4>3 cities, becomes a Candidate. Etc.

Of course, we definitely prioritize making Toku a Junkie asap, but in some logical sequence which we can't predict yet. That was for the peanut gallery...;)

Phase 2: Making a Junkie WasteLand
The Team on each continent reinforces itself with poprushing, if possible, and then moves on to its next target, but it keeps one unit close enough to recapture Junk City #1 after 10 turns. For Sal and Qin, this means that the Team has to neutralize 4 cities. When we run out of Candidates to gift cities to, we just raze. (game probably about over by then anyway.) We keep moving the Junkies to different Junkie Cities. Keep them totally dependent on us for their next fix. That what you do with Junkies, right?

Phase 3: The Jamestown Massacre
Eventually, (probably Gnejs' turnset), we put cyanide in the Junkies' kool-aid and that's it. Pretty sick, eh?

Note on Prime Candidates:
This may be a bit tricky, because we need to manage our WW. We don't want to be at war with guys with lots of WW points, but we need to DoW them early enough that they'll talk to us when we ready to gift them a Junk City.

Note on WW:
I have no frigging idea how this works out with WW. I defer to klarius to figure that one out... :goodjob:

EDIT: Additional note on the Use and Abuse of Junkies
We should feel free to use Junkies like Alex to store Junkie Cities when our next Prime Candidate isn't a Candidate quite yet. We might give Alex a couple JCs, then take one away to give to Toku. As far as I know, that's normal treatment with junkies...

EDIT: Note on Stonehenge
Under this strategy, when capturing foreign cities with no native culture, SH can be counterproductive, because after gifting we wouldn't be able to raze, only re-capture. Kind of like magic candles on your birthday cake...

There are a number of points where they go into the source code for answers.


I noticed that too ^^


Does anyone on this team know how to go into the SDK?
[/QUOTE]

I did some C++ development in the past, but I have only had a slight look at the source, it can get rather time consuming.
But I could have looked up something WW (like they did) in the source pretty fast I think, but it wasn't exactly necessary - all the information was available in the strategy section of this forum. You can of course always second ask :-)

Does anyone on this team know how to go into the SDK?


Looking at the SDK is dead easy. :) Finding where the info you want is and understanding what it means is another matter altogether. :D Maybe drhirsch can become our SDK guru. :p


I think a team has to find it's own style and the Geezers are the local pub style of players. :beer:

:rotfl:

Does anyone on this team know how to go into the SDK? I really ought to, since I'm in IT and have written in Java, C++ etc. I'm ashamed to admit that I've never really had a look at it :blush:. I'll make it a bit of a homework project.
As drhirsch says, it can get rather time-consuming. It's not just a matter of understanding what the code says, it's trying to work out what it is actually achieving. Also - there is quite a lot of it - and trying to wade through it all is not a ten minute job!



I think a team has to find it's own style and the Geezers are the local pub style of players. :beer:
We are! But I don't think that should stop us from thinking that we can improve considerably on our performance as a team without having to resort to changing our personalities completely. A little organisation can go a long way. I think this is the time - in the gap between games - when we can make a few decisions on how we are going to play next time. Call it our pre-season training, if you like, and if that doesn't clash too much with being pub players.

Our proud ambition "To become the best pub team in the world"

@Sam_Yeager
Interesting cross-post there ! Same points. Slightly different angle.

I think a team has to find it's own style and the Geezers are the local pub style of players.

Our proud ambition "To become the best pub team in the world"

:hmm: did i hear beer??? :hmm:

I can subscribe to this :D . While I appreciate the exploits of a team of stars like CFR, I certainly wouldn't want to be on it! Honestly, I have enough stress at work, I don't need to have it playing a game ;).

A little organisation can go a long way. I think this is the time - in the gap between games - when we can make a few decisions on how we are going to play next time. Call it our pre-season training, if you like, and if that doesn't clash too much with being pub players.

Our proud ambition "To become the best pub team in the world"

Would someone like to load up a starting save to work some of this out?

FYI - I'm in IT too, but I leave the code to my sons and the youngsters at work :D I really am a Geezer :lol:

Did I hear pub ? :drool: Cheers guys ! :beer:

For me it is too much looking into the code of the game to check out how the AI is working or reacting. This would not be fun for me and as The-Hawk I am stressed enough at work, so I would not like to play in a team where pressure is put on me.

If someone wants to have a look into the code, fine, but I do not think this is necessary. This seems a little too ambitious and professional for me. Everybody should enjoy the game playing it. ;) I guess that was what the developers had in mind when putting it on the shelves.

@erik : difficult to train without knowing what Gyathaar has for us next.:)

I get the feeling that it may be a while before the next SGOTM as Alan seems to have been dodging the question of when the next one will be. Probably because Gyathaar first has to come with an idea and then generate a map. After that there's probably a couple of weeks for the signup.

That being the case we could always grab one of the old WOTMs and play it as a SG to see how we go. I'm suggesting an old WOTM as it seems likely that the next game will be warlords. These games are available as WB files so using a HOF mod is optional. This one (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=192883) might be a possibility.

EDIT: We don't necessarily have to finish it if we're still playing when the next SGOTM starts.

Did I hear pub ? :drool: Cheers guys ! :beer:

@erik : difficult to train without knowing what Gyathaar has for us next.:)

I was thinking more about the ways of organizing the team and the discussions than preparing for the next game. for myself, I did lots of prep work for the current GOTM and then forgot all about it when I started playing :blush:

A dry run can be helpful as my bad habits from HOF play tend to mess up any GOTM or WOTM game (With HOF it's too easy to regen the map and start over if you don't get an ideal start and Gyathaar always gives you a challenging start :D ).

I agree that it is hard to shift between HoF and GOTM. They are so very different.

A couple of good habits that I think we should get ourselves into:

In the same way as we post a write-up after our turn finishes, we should post a short-term or tactical plan just before each turnset.
In this we should state:
The research path we are following (if a tech is likely to complete during the turn)
The builds we are going to make in each city
The military moves and objectives we are about to undertake
Worker activities
Any micromanagement that seems important

On a less regular basis (not every turnset) we could do with a long-term strategic statement.
We can all discuss and input to this, but one of us could be the strategist - who coordinates the discussion and documents the way forward.

One thing we seem to have lacked is to have members of the team who have confidence in how to win from the current position. Someone who has seen it all before, and can say "Do this, this and this, and we will win from here".
I think we have guys with this knowledge and experience in the Geezers (not me! I'm the one who's saying "I never win from this kind of position") but we could do with this kind of confident statement being made from time to time.


What do you reckon, team?

In the same way as we post a write-up after our turn finishes, we should post a short-term or tactical plan just before each turnset.
In this we should state:
The research path we are following (if a tech is likely to complete during the turn)
The builds we are going to make in each city
The military moves and objectives we are about to undertake
Worker activities
Any micromanagement that seems important


You've obviously finished reading CFR's thread. :D I suggested something similar here (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=6110812&postcount=820). As I said in that post there are downsides with posting a plan for the turnset as it does delay the turnset whilst waiting for comments. Equally the point of posting a plan relies on a decent amount of timely feedback from other team members. At times I did feel that participation was somewhat lacking. Playing across timezones is obviously a problem but something that we just have to take into account.

Looking at your suggestions for what should be in the plan they do seem rather detailed. :eek: I would hope that in our new broad strategy mode that we will already know the research path. In terms of city builds I think we should be highlighting the key builds whilst doing our best to avoid :smoke: builds in other cities. Military objectives is the key part rather than the exact military moves needed to accomplish them.

Following our discussions after this SGOTM I think we will already be making changes to how we play the next one. However we don't want to make the game too onerous otherwise we'll just lose the fun and enjoyment aspect of the game.

... there are downsides with posting a plan for the turnset as it does delay the turnset whilst waiting for comments. Equally the point of posting a plan relies on a decent amount of timely feedback from other team members. At times I did feel that participation was somewhat lacking. Playing across timezones is obviously a problem but something that we just have to take into account.
Yes. We do suffer a bit from being The Truly International Geezers. Most times when it came to an evening when I was due to play, I could see that there was at most 2 of the team online to get advice from, and sometimes none. I'd like us to be in the position where we are all pretty confident about what we're going to be doing next, so the short-term plan would just be a confirmation - and allow anyone online at the time to be a second pair of eyes.

Looking at your suggestions for what should be in the plan they do seem rather detailed. :eek: I would hope that in our new broad strategy mode that we will already know the research path. In terms of city builds I think we should be highlighting the key builds whilst doing our best to avoid :smoke: builds in other cities. Military objectives is the key part rather than the exact military moves needed to accomplish them.
Yes. I agree. It reads worse than I intended it to look.
For an example, this post from balbes: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=5977164&postcount=453
All of the major points are stated, but not going into fine detail.

I also wouldn't think we need this in a rigid fashion before every turn. Some turns are going to be quiet, and others more exciting.

Following our discussions after this SGOTM I think we will already be making changes to how we play the next one. However we don't want to make the game too onerous otherwise we'll just lose the fun and enjoyment aspect of the game.
I'm with you all the way. We aren't going to change the way we play. Wouldn't want to. If I had to count tiles every time I played, or be prepared to answer why I had wasted 3 :hammers:, I'd lose interest and go play something else more fun.

es. We do suffer a bit from being The Truly International Geezers. Most times when it came to an evening when I was due to play, I could see that there was at most 2 of the team online to get advice from, and sometimes none. I'd like us to be in the position where we are all pretty confident about what we're going to be doing next, so the short-term plan would just be a confirmation - and allow anyone online at the time to be a second pair of eyes.

You could look at this another way by saying that, because we were so international, no matter what time you decided to play, you could be sure that at least one of us was around for advice...........

You could look at this another way by saying that, because we were so international, no matter what time you decided to play, you could be sure that at least one of us was around for advice...........

Glass half full ! :D

Another suggestion for what might be usefull is to report afterwards how the strategic plan played out or was followed in the turn set. Forget reporting blow by blow activities and just stick to the main theme. Having the plan beside you during play and reporting back the build decisions, etc based on the plan would help staying focused.

As we've got a lot of posts covering a number of different areas I thought I would try to gather the main ideas into one place. In addition it also includes one or two ideas that occurred to me whilst compiling the list as well as some ideas from other threads. Being realistic I'm sure I may have overlooked or overly simplified someone's suggestions. ;)

Game Strategy and Management


If there's a suitable test game available then all team members should play it until at least the early ADs. This will help them to contibute more fully when the game strategy is discussed.

Decide on game victory condition.

what is our long term tech path?
What are critical builds?
What shouldn't we build?
What techs don't we need?
What types of units should we concentrate on?
Do we need defensive units, or only offensive?
Do we need a navy?


Estimate timescale for completion. (?)

Third place finish date has ranged from 1202 AD (257) - 1961 AD (571).
The vast majority of third place finishes were in the 300s (1544 AD - 1766 AD)


Identify a rolling list of short term objectives. (?)

Useful to check how well we are doing.
This is a continuing task throughout the game.

Regular review and refinement of overall strategy.

Is it still applicable?
How well are we following the aims of the strategy?
Does it need changing and if so how?



Game Playing


Post brief outline of goals for turnset.

Leave sufficient time for comments. 24 hours should be enough
Amend as necessary based on feedback

Give feedback in writeup on which goals were achieved.
Turn lengths

Adopt differing turn lengths depending on whether we are at war?
Report on progress part way through turnset if at war e.g. 5+5 system used by CFR?



Shamelessly plagiarised, and suitably edited, from the Murky Waters thread. :hatsoff:


Ensure that you have read and understood the rules provided by the administrators (C-IV SGOTM Reference Thread) and try to follow any ongoing discussion at the SGOTM xx Maintenance Thread

The next player shall post a ”got it” within 72 hours of the upload of the previous game. Else the next available player has the right to post the ”got it”. This is a rule in addition to the guideline in the C-IV SGOTM Reference Thread. To ensure a smooth handover, please post the ”got it” within 48 hours. The rest of the team needs the in between 24 hours to solve whos next. It’s also good practice to wait 24 hours after the ”got it” before you play. Else, the difference in time zones and busy work days may prevent players from posting useful advice.

No-one is forced to play a turn set. You don’t need to announce the reason for skipping a turn set. Any players can swap turn sets. Please post as quick as possible to reduce unneccesary confusion and delays.

Please use smilies and emotes in your posts as much as possible. Jokes, humour, sarcasm and offensive language can and will be misinterpreted. Remember that written text is a poor method to convey feelings. Not everyone is native to the English language The differences in culture is also a source for misunderstanding. If you get upset by a post, please wait a few hours before you respond.

Don’t be afraid to post things that may appear stupid or evident. Each player have strengths and weaknesses. For example don't assume that everyone knows the difference between peace treaty and ceasefire. Don’t be afraid that other members will think you are stupid.

Issues where we cannot reach concensus is resolved by the active player. If you run into a situation where you need advice, please upload the save and let the rest of us take a look. Or post a quick request for advice. It’s better to delay the game a day than build a wonder in the wrong city. Don’t be afraid of making mistakes though. We all screw up once in a while (some of us more often than others though :shifty: )

Don’t promote units until they are close to action (unless the promotion increases movement). If you are unsure of suitable promotions, don’t hesitate to bring that up for discussion. We all have very different experiences from promotions, for example barrage/CR for cats.

Don’t play intoxicated (from alcohol, drugs or smoke). Don’t play when you are too tired. Or when you have your kids/wife screaming at you :lol:

Try to keep track of the diplomatic events each turn, and visit each city regularly. It’s mandatory to check cities that grow or have a border expansion. Remember that the number of happy people will change due to changes in war weariness (WW), gained/lost resources etc. Keep track of specialists. We don’t want to pollute the great person pool.

Ensure that you have the autosave settings to 1. Please contact AlanH if your game crashes, even if you can repeat all your moves.

If you PM the team, please ensure everyone receives a copy.

Remember that a lot of players read what we post. Don't be rude or disrepectful to any player not on our team.

Try to run a test game or two before we start. Your experience may either confirm or contradict someone elses, and is therefore valuable.

If we can commit to the game as well as we have committed to the post-mortem, we'll be rocking. But if my showing in GOTM29 is anything to go by, we will end up falling into our same old bad habits..........

If we can commit to the game as well as we have committed to the post-mortem, we'll be rocking. But if my showing in GOTM29 is anything to go by, we will end up falling into our same old bad habits..........

GOTM29 !! :eek: Time-travelling again Harbourboy? (If I can just get this sucker up to 88mph . . .)

I, too, have just been infuriating myself with the old ineptitude in a GOTM. Surely you can teach an old dog new tricks?

Make that GOTM24. That one should have been easy but .... well, the spoiler thread is not up yet so I won't reveal how badly I did. Yet.

Nice summary Sam. I'll be printing it and posting beside the PC for when we start to play.

@Sam_Yeager
Yes. Well summarised.
And that's a very useful post from Erkon from the MW thread. I'm sure they won't mind us Geezers borrowing their script. (it doesn't come with a curse, does it?)

Nice summary Sam. I'll be printing it and posting beside the PC for when we start to play.

Umm, not all of that has been agreed yet erik. :scan: But hopefully it makes it easier to work out what ideas were proposed.

From Erkon's post:

"Don’t promote units until they are close to action (unless the promotion increases movement)."

I have to say, I am not a big fan of this, especially in a succession game. Why? I think there is too great a risk that someone will forget to promote a unit before an AI attack, especially if that unit became eligible on a previous person's turn. I'd hate to lose a unit because it was attacked unpromoted.

I follow two principles when building units:
1) I build defenders to defend, and attackers to attack.
2) The best defense is a good offense. In my games, 99% of the units I build are meant to attack. Even if an AI is attacking me, I go on the offensive (to avoid pillaging). I almost never wait for an AI to attack me in a city.

These principles make my selection of promotions routine:

Defenders: If it is gonna defend, promote it with a defensive trait and fortify. Most cities have one defender which is an archer with city garrison. If I'm afraid of AI horsemen pillaging in a border town, I'll build throw in a spear or two with formation.

Attackers: Since the AI's mix stacks I think there are few opportunities to really take advantage of last minute promotions (e.g. You promote the unit to formation because there is an elephant on the top of the AI stack, then the AI brings a maceman up to the top instead. You try to attack with a different unit with shock, then the elephant comes to the top.). In fact, even if you can get a well matched attack (e.g. the elephant is alone), the next time you need the unit, it may be a complete mismatch (it may be up against a maceman). I tend to make my early offensive units generalists (combat or city raider). Later, I may build specialists based on my AI opponent's best unit (e.g. if they have rifles, I'll build some cavs with Pinch).

However, I understand common wisdom is to wait on promotions until you see your opponent. If the team prefers this style, I'll do my best to remember to wait. Also, if an AI is sending a stack our way, I'll try to remember to check and see if we have any unpromoted units sitting around.