I mean seriously, compared to many of the other civs now included in the game, Sweden was a great empire for a little more than a hundred years in all of europe, waged war way down in Austria and even against Russia! Incorporated Norway, Finland and loads more!

'Sweden was, between 1611 and 1718, one of the great powers of Europe. In modern historiography this period is known as the Swedish Empire, or Stormaktstiden'

You should read: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swedish_Empire

This is also very interesting: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rise_of_Sweden_as_a_Great_Power

This is not atall some whining from a little swede, I'm actually german but am living here in sweden now and has learned of it's history, I would really like to see them incorporated into this game as I think it is only fair, and would show that scandinavia did exist after the Vikings aswel :)

What do you think?

I've Norwegian ancestory, so yes you're the only one missing the Swedes ;)

I've Norwegian ancestory, so yes you're the only one missing the Swedes ;)

Well you guys apparently shot Karl XII to death succesfully ending the Swedish Empire :)

It doesn't matter where you come from really, I'm thinking every nation that has had some time of greatness in history should be represented in this game that is all about history, greatness and time ;)

Well you guys apparently shot Karl XII to death succesfully ending the Swedish Empire :)

It doesn't matter where you come from really, I'm thinking every nation that has had some time of greatness in history should be represented in this game that is all about history, greatness and time ;)

Honestly, I agree totally. The representation of The Vikings as all of Scandinavia is about as true as them having hats with horns. Both Sverge and Norvege both have long epic histories, Even Beowolf is based on mostly likely Swedish mythology. The problem is that there are 120 something independant sovereign countries in the world today. Civ represents a few current, and a few historical. We can't have it both ways....

There are other Civs I'd rather have (Hebrews IMHO (not wanting to start THAT arguement)), but I think the civs chosen were all good choices (at least in of themselves, not considering other civs already in).

However... if they HAD included Sweden I'd been very much in favor of it, and yes I'd rather have them then the HRE personally... or Byzantines, but that's my personal taste.

If they did have them in a future (if any) expansion, I'd hope they have Gustavus Adolphus leading Sweden. A) I actually know who he is B) What I do know is positive.

But then you had ABBA. ABBA were utterly magnificent. If Sweden ever get into Civ, instead of building rock and roll, you could build ABBA instead:-+24 guaranteed hit singles.....(I did an ABBA cd for my mum recently, they wrote brilliant songs, really brilliant, I never realised....), I've a grad In Comp Science and a PHD in music, so my views don't count for much , as music is really all personal preference but still....Bach, Abba, beethoven, The Beatles, if i made a list :)

No, you're not the only one. I want Sweden also in. It has great history and it's still one of the best countries to live in.

I love to live here, I don't wanna go back.

Sorry, what's Sweden?

The Vikings stir emotions, modern Swedes do not.

The Vikings stir emotions, modern Swedes do not.

Wrong!
I don't want Sweden because I believe Denmark was greater! AND I think a single Scandinavian civilization would be much wiser.

I love Sweden, so I voted yes. And of course Gustav Adolf was an important person for even Germany's history (I live at a castle where he fought a battle against Wallenstein).

No, I do not miss Sweden in the game. Be glad your people are actually represented in the game in the form of the Vikings; a lot of non-European nations aren't at all.

I love Sweden, so I voted yes. And of course Gustav Adolf was an important person for even Germany's history (I live at a castle where he fought a battle against Wallenstein).


You LIVE in a castle?

Sweden? Toppen :thumbsup: !

But I wonder what Swedens unique building is going to be :rolleyes: :D ...

I
Know which one, but if I told,
Everyone would be seriously
Annoyed, so I won´t spoil it.

I'd like a couple of new leaders for the Vikings! And also, change the name "Vikings" to "Scandinavia" or "Norse". That way, we can have both a Danish leader and a Swedish one, though not in the same game regrettably.

Please Firaxis?

Unique building: Systembolaget
Health: +3
Happy: -1

Unique building: Systembolaget
Health: +3
Happy: -1

Why not unique building: summer cottage? Health and happiness one + each.

Why not. And naturally the special unit would be Finnish Hakkapeliitta cavalryman.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hakkapeliitta

And while they are at it, just rename the whole thing ''Scandinavilization'', take out all remaining units except Axeman, replace the soundtrack with Fintroll albums, and design 30 scenarios based around a band of men plundering the English coast.

It would sell about 10 copies.

The problem is that Sweden alone just doesn't cut it. Denmark alone doesn't either. That's why you should visit this thread to discuss a Scandinavian civ: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=227493&page=31

I hope you realise that the thread title question and the poll question are not asking the same thing - thus you cannot really rely on the results either (some may be responding to the question posed in the thread title and not the poll question itself)...

But, on topic, yes, it would be fun to see Sweden in the game some day! :)

...and design 30 scenarios based around a band of men plundering the English coast.

It would sell about 10 copies.

11. I would buy one.

It sold more than 10 copies: http://au.pc.ign.com/articles/432/432677p1.html

Not bad, but EU2 killed it.

Needs more

http://img341.imageshack.us/img341/113/450pxtheswedishchefandphj6.jpg

Sweden? Aren't they famous for Chocolate and banks?

Sweden? Aren't they famous for Chocolate and banks?

No, that's Switzerland. :rolleyes:

Sweden, famous for IKEA, Volvo, SAAB and Urika Johnson...

I lump them in with the Vikings and say yaa, boo and sucks if they don't like it.

If Sweden is in, it'll then be time to make the case for Belgium as a civilization...when will the madness cease?

I'm satisfied with the Vikings. :viking:

Why not. And naturally the special unit would be Finnish Hakkapeliitta cavalryman.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hakkapeliitta

No it shouldn't. It should be "Karolin", since the Hakkapeliterna were Finnish and not swedish. It would bring up endless discussion about why Finland isn't in the game or why the Civ isn't called "Sweden/Finland".

So, UU "Karolin", leaders "Kronprinssessan Viktoria" (Cha/Org) and "Göran Persson" (Fat/Git).

The UB should be IKEA, with the special functionality that it can also be built in enemy Civs cities.

Edit: - deleted for being in the completely wrong thread -

I wouldn't want to see Sweden as a civ, really. I can't see Sweden beside such civs such as Rome, England or China. I think the best way to reflect Swedish impacts on the world history is by adding great people from Sweden, such as Gustavus Adolphus in warlords.

If we would have kept our power for a longer time I would maybe be of a different opinion, but as it stands, we showed up on the world scene, kicked ass and caused mayhem before going back to the North again.

I mean seriously, compared to many of the other civs now included in the game, Sweden was a great empire for a little more than a hundred years in all of europe, waged war way down in Austria and even against Russia! Incorporated Norway, Finland and loads more!

'Sweden was, between 1611 and 1718, one of the great powers of Europe. In modern historiography this period is known as the Swedish Empire, or Stormaktstiden'

You should read: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swedish_Empire

This is also very interesting: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rise_of_Sweden_as_a_Great_Power

This is not atall some whining from a little swede, I'm actually german but am living here in sweden now and has learned of it's history, I would really like to see them incorporated into this game as I think it is only fair, and would show that scandinavia did exist after the Vikings aswel :)

What do you think?scandinavia is covered with the vikes but romania and polynesia would be cool

I agree that the UB should be Ikea. It'll make their buildings and mechanical units cost less hammers to build because they can build them in their homes but they would be flimsy as hell.

The problem is that Sweden alone just doesn't cut it. Denmark alone doesn't either. That's why you should visit this thread to discuss a Scandinavian civ: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=227493&page=31

I agree, but I do think the "Viking Civilization" should be renamed "the Scandinavian Civilization". Special unit: Viking. Leaders: Canute and Queen Margaret of Kalmar Union fame, for choice. Anyone but Ragnar, actually.

No it shouldn't. It should be "Karolin", since the Hakkapeliterna were Finnish and not swedish. It would bring up endless discussion about why Finland isn't in the game or why the Civ isn't called "Sweden/Finland".

So, UU "Karolin", leaders "Kronprinssessan Viktoria" (Cha/Org) and "Göran Persson" (Fat/Git).

The UB should be IKEA, with the special functionality that it can also be built in enemy Civs cities.

I lol'd

Guess this thread is out of hand :P

They're just part of the Vikings.

The only reason I'm saying yes is because of my unrequited love for a swedish girl I grew up with. I may never see her again, but I'll always love her. :)

The only reason I'm saying yes is because of my unrequited love for a swedish girl I grew up with. I may never see her again, but I'll always love her. :)

hah, that made me wonder if some dev from firaxis had crush on some native american :p

These threads are sooo tiresome..

And anyway it should be DENMARK instead of Sweden, because we had a larger empire, and had a great impact upon world history and bla bla

Anyways..

I agree they should rename the vikings "Scandinavia" or "Kalmar" etc..anything but viking. And remove that stupid helmet on Ragnar!

UB: Ikea: +3commerce/+1Culture/+1science/-1happiness ("Where's that damned screw??!?" -"Darn - My cupboard just fell apart" ;) )

Is this another 'Polish' thread? :D

Yes, this thread is another ... thread, but with the difference that we are less anoying;) :lol:

Norway is the capital of sweden, usually... if you ask the general american ;)

However, i find them represented by the Vikings just as much as Norway and Denmark. Several of their city names is from the respective countries. Norway got the capital though, luckily!

Rather just change the name of the Viking civ.

The Vikings stir emotions, modern Swedes do not.

Anita Ekberg and Ingrid Bergman never stirred any emotions in you?

Wrong!
I don't want Sweden because I believe Denmark was greater! AND I think a single Scandinavian civilization would be much wiser.

I agree about the second statement. Give the "Viking Civilization" their proper name of Scandinavians!

I agree about the second statement. Give the "Viking Civilization" their proper name of Scandinavians!

U know that IS sort of strange though, that we have a scandinavian civ (vikings) AND a Danish Civ... I guess it's not different than HRE and france and Germany, or American with the american indian tribes too

Voted no, barely any need. The Scandinavians as a whole had a much greater impact in world history by the late iron age than any Scandinavian country would by itself.

But please do rename the Viking empire to Scandinavia, and Berserkers to Vikings. I know it can be done through modding, but it's a matter of principle.

I also think Denmark was important (yay, another Dane), as we had as much impact on history as Sweden (We also had colonies btw... Sweden was a regional power), but I'd prefer a Kalmar civ.

I'd like Sweden as a civ, not for what Sweden did under 'Stormaktstiden', but for what it does today. Sweden is one of the key countries in the world, I should say. Yes, I want Sweden in Civ.

It would be hard to pick between the Scandinavian nations as THE nation to use as Scandinavians.

Being a dane though, I know we've been quite large at one time before those pesky brits forced us to choose the wrong side in the napoleonic wars :p

Long story short, Great Britain demanded our fleet in the early 1800s, and when we didn't hand it over, they came and took it. This "forced" us to side with Napoleon in the war, which turned out badly. We never recovered, and neighbouring nations spotted the chance to take some land. I'm no historian so please excuse any errors, but I believe that's the gist of it. Enough about that...

Denmark has at one time included all of Norway, a good part of southern Sweden, part of northern Germany, and Iceland. For a short period in between all the plundering of England, all of it was part of the Danish Empire (26 years). Greenland is still an autonomous province under the kingdom of Denmark, as is the Faroe Islands.

Once again, I'm by no means a historian, but Denmark was without a doubt a super power at one time around the year 1000AD :)

As for unique units I believe our cartoonists have proven their worth as great negative diplomacy bombs during the "Muhammad Crisis" just recently... :mischief:

Edit: Oh, I forgot about colonial holdings in Danish India, the Danish West Indies in the Caribbean, and the Danish Gold Coast in Africa

I won't rest until every group of humans that's ever existed is recognized as a civ. It's only right! Even groups like the Boy Scouts, Girl Scouts, The Kiss Army, etc - they have world-wide empires and it's criminal that Firaxis hasn't recognized thier world dominance and affect on world culture and made them playable in Civ IV. It's a travesty.

It would be hard to pick between the Scandinavian nations as THE nation to use as Scandinavians.

Being a dane though, I know we've been quite large at one time before those pesky brits forced us to choose the wrong side in the napoleonic wars :p

Long story short, Great Britain demanded our fleet in the early 1800s, and when we didn't hand it over, they came and took it. This "forced" us to side with Napoleon in the war, which turned out badly. We never recovered, and neighbouring nations spotted the chance to take some land. I'm no historian so please excuse any errors, but I believe that's the gist of it. Enough about that...

Denmark has at one time included all of Norway, a good part of southern Sweden, part of northern Germany, and Iceland. For a short period in between all the plundering of England, all of it was part of the Danish Empire (26 years). Greenland is still an autonomous province under the kingdom of Denmark, as is the Faroe Islands.

Once again, I'm by no means a historian, but Denmark was without a doubt a super power at one time around the year 1000AD :)

As for unique units I believe our cartoonists have proven their worth as great negative diplomacy bombs during the "Muhammad Crisis" just recently... :mischief:

Edit: Oh, I forgot about colonial holdings in Danish India, the Danish West Indies in the Caribbean, and the Danish Gold Coast in Africa

First of all: Problem with Danish power 1000AD = Viking Era.

Otherwise:

When Denmark had possessions in Estonia (Regional power - no map)

map of Denmark when it was a regional power (Kalmar Union: age of prime IMHO):
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/34/The_Kalmar_Union_at_the_beginning_of_the_16_Centur y.PNG

Decline in ~1650, where Sweden took many Danish areas.

map of Denmark when it's a colonial power (More a trade thing):
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/47/Denmark-Norway_and_possessions.png

Notice: in 1800 Denmark had the largest navy in the world. England demanded it, Denmark said no, and England attacked. Denmark won the most battle, but due to a letter of some sort, England made the Danish fleet surrender >.<

Then, Copenhagen was bombed, etc etc nationalistic crap :p and here we are, owning a lot of ice in the northwest.

Well, Denmark was powerful in the Medieval era. As you say.

Awesome, someone with historical knowledge :)

First of all: Problem with Danish power 1000AD = Viking Era.

I don't think I understand this... Denmark being big in the viking era doesn't make it not a danish superpower does it?


in 1800 Denmark had the largest navy in the world. England demanded it, Denmark said no, and England attacked. Denmark won the most battle, but due to a letter of some sort, England made the Danish fleet surrender >.<

Then, Copenhagen was bombed, etc etc nationalistic crap :p and here we are, owning a lot of ice in the northwest.

Are you sure about this? There was a large battle in 1801 which Denmark lost due to the paper thing you mention, but the second battle in 1807 when Denmark was bombed with incendiary bombs is the one where our fleet was taken. Or perhaps that happened in both battles? At least that's what I can get out of a quick wikipedia read...

Also, we may be getting too far off track here for this not to start looking like a hijack ;)

I'd like Sweden as a civ, not for what Sweden did under 'Stormaktstiden', but for what it does today. Sweden is one of the key countries in the world, I should say. Yes, I want Sweden in Civ.

Not knowing too much about Sweden, what makes it one of the key countries in the world today?

This is not atall some whining from a little swede...

Nah, that would be SwedishGuy... :lol: j/k Swedesbro, it's just been too long since i posted some b/s with you :)

I wouldn't mind seeing Sweden in the game, the more civs the merrier IMO.

I voted "What's Sweden?" because I thought SwedishGuy was completely making the place up...

This thread is alive again? I always enjoy talking about Scandinavian countries.
Overall I don't think Sweden is a civilization important enough to make the cut. Denmark merely makes it but together; Sweden, Denmark and Norway (and Iceland) they're very worthy.
Then we have medieval Denmark; the people who conquered England and Northern-France and raided many countries. Of course they did much more like have a large colonial power including Faeroe Islands, Iceland, Greenland, Danish Virgin Isles (American Virgin Isles) and colonies in Ghana, India, Bangladesh and islands in the Indian ocean.
We also know about Sweden's achievements; they were one of the strongest countries in the world at a certain point in the renaissance.

Scandinavian civilization I say!

The Viking civ cover the scandinavian countries well, I think. That's when they were cool and noteworthy. Can't see that any of them deserves to be in on their own, unless we're looking at a 4th expansion and grasping for any nation that's done allright but nothing much more.

As for that map of Denmark, having control of relatively large bits of land at one point doesn't really seem enough.

As for that map of Denmark, having control of relatively large bits of land at one point doesn't really seem enough.

Well, I think there's a bit more to it than just controlling large amounts of land...

Let me add to this that I don't think any of the scandinavian countries should be added as a separate nation, I vote for renaming vikings to scandinavians, and having the viking as the unique unit.

Not knowing too much about Sweden, what makes it one of the key countries in the world today?

"Key country" is a slight exaggeration but given that we are only 9 millions we certainly have more impact than one would expect. We have made the EU progress quite a bit in enviromental issues and we've allways been trying to help poor countries as far as our tiny budget allows us. Slightly different social/political model also. Quite a bit less authoritharian/right wingish that the most western countries today. Even our rightwing party is quite "light-blue" so to speak. Yes, it works - we have been one of the richest and most socially developed countries in the world a looong time. Also, we are innovators in techincal/medicine areas and has been for a long time. And we give you the Nobel Prize!

I see... Is it much different from the way Norway and Denmark do politics?

Ok, Sweden is great and all, but they're already represented by the Vikings. Why don't we have Ukraine? Cause it's already represented by Russia. I'm tired of all these "boo-hoo my heritage isn't represented specificly enough in this game" posts. I'm Irish... but I'm not going to cry forever that Ireland has to be represented by the English civ. Though a Pub for a UU would be kinda sweet...

Apologies to the OP if this seems really mean, I think it's just pent-up rage from all the stupid "Where's Poland?" threads.

"Key country" is a slight exaggeration but given that we are only 9 millions we certainly have more impact than one would expect. We have made the EU progress quite a bit in enviromental issues and we've allways been trying to help poor countries as far as our tiny budget allows us. Slightly different social/political model also. Quite a bit less authoritharian/right wingish that the most western countries today. Even our rightwing party is quite "light-blue" so to speak. Yes, it works - we have been one of the richest and most socially developed countries in the world a looong time. Also, we are innovators in techincal/medicine areas and has been for a long time. And we give you the Nobel Prize!

We're talking Civilization here, capital C, the big cool ones we all know. For sure, the peg has been lowered when it is argued that a nation ought to be in because it's doing it's best to help the poor on a tight budget and overall doing quite allright ;)

For sure, the peg has been lowered when it is argued that a nation ought to be in because it's doing it's best to help the poor on a tight budget and overall doing quite allright ;)

Great way to put it, had me laughing for a bit for the "overall doing quite allright" thing :)

I'd like to see sweeden. They played an important part in european history. There is enough of an argument going on to involve Poland... Sweeden should get in before Poland, they played a much larger part

Sweden's part of the Vikings. They're already in.

I'd like to see sweeden. They played an important part in european history. There is enough of an argument going on to involve Poland... Sweeden should get in before Poland, they played a much larger part

Well that settles it for this thread then :crazyeye:

They're just part of the Vikings.

Go die for bumping another one of these stupid threads filled with nationalistic retards. This was 2 months old and you revived its stinking, maggot ridden corpse.

Warned - Flaming

Go die for bumping another one of these stupid threads filled with nationalistic retards.

Both nationalistic and other kinds, it seems :rolleyes:

Go die for bumping another one of these stupid threads filled with nationalistic retards. This was 2 months old and you revived its stinking, maggot ridden corpse.
Oh, really, I revived this? I'm a nationalistic retard?
Screw you, Monkeyfinger! Why don't you just go die!: :aargh:
Nobody has to listen to your crap!

Responding in kind to flaming is never a good idea.

Why not Iceland? We wrote many books and were the first Europeans to discover Greenland and America.

I know why.
Because there have been loads of other bigger nations and we are already represented by the Vikings which is good enough for me and should also be good enough for my fellow Scandinavians.

Reykjavík is even in the game.

They've got to have a leader. That's the problem with modren nation Civs. They haven't had time to get a good leader.

I know about Sweden, but I voted "whats Sweden" just because it made me laugh out loud.

If they put in Sweden, we also need Finland.

Wrong!
I don't want Sweden because I believe Denmark was greater! AND I think a single Scandinavian civilization would be much wiser.

Only if we have Hamlet as a leader.

Why not Iceland? We wrote many books and were the first Europeans to discover Greenland and America.

I know why.

Iceland is much better represented by the viking civ than Sweden because it was settled by vikings mostly and it was them who discovered America and wrote the only icelandic books I know of. It's not really a fair comparison, Sweden has done allright independent of the viking age.

Go die for bumping another one of these stupid threads filled with nationalistic retards. This was 2 months old and you revived its stinking, maggot ridden corpse.

Warned - Flaming

People that live in glass house shouldn't throw stones. Especially when its a particularly unfunny and tasteless glass house (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=243148) posted only yesterday.

I'm Irish... but I'm not going to cry forever that Ireland has to be represented by the English civ. Though a Pub for a UU would be kinda sweet....


:confused: I think the Celts were included specifically to seel copies in Ireland, Wales and Scotland, I know theyre arent exactly Irish Scottish or Welsh but I consider the Celts a hell of a lot more representative of us than England

Yes. Sweden shold be in the game. The Vikings do not represent Sweden, because only 4 of the cities are swedish.
And the Vikings where never a civilization, it was denmark, norway and sweden. # different civs who where called the vikings in a specific time.
I think the viking civ should go, and instead there should be denmark and sweden as 2 new civs.

rename vikings to scandinavia
rename berserker to viking
problem solved

and no Sweden shoudn't be in.
btw this thread is stupid, and I bumped it arrrgh!!

Let them in:D

First of all, sry for going OT... Answers in Bold

Awesome, someone with historical knowledge :)

Hehe :goodjob:

I don't think I understand this... Denmark being big in the viking era doesn't make it not a danish superpower does it?

Yes, Denmark was a superpower in the Viking era, but the problem is, the Vikings are already in... Which is also the problem if anyone was to include Denmark, our age of prime is closely related to the Viking era (with 400 years afterwards, but still). Sweden represents a 'Renaisscence superpower' which we need a bit of in Civ IMHO. The renaisscence is the only era now which needs more units.

Are you sure about this? There was a large battle in 1801 which Denmark lost due to the paper thing you mention, but the second battle in 1807 when Denmark was bombed with incendiary bombs is the one where our fleet was taken. Or perhaps that happened in both battles? At least that's what I can get out of a quick wikipedia read...

Our fleet surrendered first, but it was ceded after the bombing of Copenhagen as you say, sorry if I wrote otherwise.

Also, we may be getting too far off track here for this not to start looking like a hijack ;)

I feel the same way. Sorry everyone!

The Viking civ cover the scandinavian countries well, I think. That's when they were cool and noteworthy. Can't see that any of them deserves to be in on their own, unless we're looking at a 4th expansion and grasping for any nation that's done allright but nothing much more.

As for that map of Denmark, having control of relatively large bits of land at one point doesn't really seem enough.

The areas that Denmark controlled is not important in that century.. Denmark was never a really productive country but rather a nation with a very powerful trade system (Look at the taxations we did in the Baltic, we controlled trade entering Russia, Poland and the Teutonic Order, and on the 1800 century map, can you see the tiny green spot in West Africa, the Caribbean and back to Denmark? We developed an effecient trade route there, trading [insert Danish something something here] for slaves in Africa, then took slaves into the Caribbean, and Sugar back to Denmark. However, I think we lost the trading posts to England with our fleet, and the Carribean Islands were sold to the United States.)
However, in the Kalmar Union, Denmark ruled the north in Europe. And that WAS important, even though the northern provinces were very poor. The Kalmar Union was a political entity and a superpower back then... Damn you Swedes for leaving us... :p :joke:
Omg a long OT. Sorry!! xD

I still think Sweden should be in - if Firaxis made a third Xpack.










..................With Poland. :p

Sweden a civilization???

Unique unit: Vasaskeppet, a gigantic warship that sank after sailing only a mile into her maiden voyage on 10 August 1628. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vasa_(ship))

Seriously:

Scandinavia is a region, originally only Norway and Sweden (the Scandinavian Peninsula), but most often including Denmark. These three kingdoms was united for an unstable period of 15 years (1379-1412) under the reign of queen Margrete (in Sweden Margareta). So please: Don’t bring back the absurdity “the Scandinavian Empire”.

(Or maybe we’re talking of the civilization of Scandinavia, Wisconsin?)

And please: Forget “Canute”. His real name was Knútr in Old Norse or Knud in modern Danish (Canute the Great = Knútr hinn ríki / Knud den store). Knut in Norwegian.

There’s nothing wrong with the Viking Empire. Ragnar (Ragnarr Loðbrók) may never have lived, but that’s ok.

First of all, sry for going OT... Answers in Bold

Thanks mate, very informative! :goodjob:

Sweden a civilization???

Unique unit: Vasaskeppet, a gigantic warship that sank after sailing only a mile into her maiden voyage on 10 August 1628. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vasa_(ship))

Seriously:

Scandinavia is a region, originally only Norway and Sweden (the Scandinavian Peninsula), but most often including Denmark. These three kingdoms was united for an unstable period of 15 years (1379-1412) under the reign of queen Margrete (in Sweden Margareta). So please: Don’t bring back the absurdity “the Scandinavian Empire”.

(Or maybe we’re talking of the civilization of Scandinavia, Wisconsin?)

And please: Forget “Canute”. His real name was Knútr in Old Norse or Knud in modern Danish (Canute the Great = Knútr hinn ríki / Knud den store). Knut in Norwegian.

There’s nothing wrong with the Viking Empire. Ragnar (Ragnarr Loðbrók) may never have lived, but that’s ok.

The Scandinavian Empire is no more absurd than the Celtic Empire. As for Canute, that is the name under which he is known in English. Since there are so many versions of his name in various Scandinavan languages (Knútr, Knut, Knud), I think it makes perfect sense to use the customary English version of his name in English. And I would much prefer him as a leader instead of the mythical Ragnar Lodbrok.

The Scandinavian Empire is no more absurd than the Celtic Empire.

I suppose the Celtic Empire is more absurd. As an empire. But as a culture it's less absurd. Not because of reality, but because of the myths. This is a game, a lot of us likes the mythical dimensions of Civ. To be honest, there's not much fun associated with the term "Scandinavian". But the Viking myths are fun.

As for Canute, that is the name under which he is known in English. Since there are so many versions of his name in various Scandinavan languages (Knútr, Knut, Knud), I think it makes perfect sense to use the customary English version of his name in English. And I would much prefer him as a leader instead of the mythical Ragnar Lodbrok.

But why Canute/Knud in the first place? Why not his father Svein? Ok, the Danes of today uses Svend, but everybody understands the original Old Norse form. I would accept Svein Forkbeard.

I suppose the Celtic Empire is more absurd. As an empire. But as a culture it's less absurd. Not because of reality, but because of the myths. This is a game, a lot of us likes the mythical dimensions of Civ. To be honest, there's not much fun associated with the term "Scandinavian". But the Viking myths are fun.



But why Canute/Knud in the first place? Why not his father Svein? Ok, the Danes of today uses Svend, but everybody understands the original Old Norse form. I would accept Svein Forkbeard.

Scandinavian culture is a fact; we have much more in common than we are perhaps sometimes willing to admit. The various Celtic cultures did not always have that much in common and the linguistic deiversity was much bigger. As for saying that Scandinavian is not fun, but Viking is, that is of course a matter of opinion.

I fail to see what was so wonderful about Sweyn Forkbeard. Incidentally, he is called Sven in Swedish, so he has a separate name in each Scandinavian language. Sweyn/Sven/Svend/Svein/Sveinn was certainly a less able and successful ruler than his son, who not for nothing is known as "Knut the Great" in Scandinavia.

But why Canute/Knud in the first place? Why not his father Svein? Ok, the Danes of today uses Svend, but everybody understands the original Old Norse form. I would accept Svein Forkbeard.
Canute is a better choice than Svein IMO. Svein did the Christianity thing, but Canute ruled England. The Viking raiding thing is much more represented by Canute, as he conquered, while Svein is renowned for changing the state religion.

Sweden a civilization???

Unique unit: Vasaskeppet, a gigantic warship that sank after sailing only a mile into her maiden voyage on 10 August 1628. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vasa_(ship))

Seriously:

Scandinavia is a region, originally only Norway and Sweden (the Scandinavian Peninsula), but most often including Denmark. These three kingdoms was united for an unstable period of 15 years (1379-1412) under the reign of queen Margrete (in Sweden Margareta). So please: Don’t bring back the absurdity “the Scandinavian Empire”.

First of all, The Kalmar Union lasted for aprox. 125 years (something between 120-130 years).
Second, Scandinavia is not a geographical region. It's a cultural region that stretches over Sweden, Norway and Denmark and the places where they've held influence (Iceland, Faeroes, Finland and maybe Greenland).
Furthermore, all the Scandinavian countries have a very similar culture and language. More similar than Spain (see Catalonia, Basques and Galicia), France (see Lorraine, Brittany, Provencal), England (see Wales and Scotland) and certainly Celts and Native Americans.

And please: Forget “Canute”. His real name was Knútr in Old Norse or Knud in modern Danish (Canute the Great = Knútr hinn ríki / Knud den store). Knut in Norwegian.

There’s nothing wrong with the Viking Empire. Ragnar (Ragnarr Loðbrók) may never have lived, but that’s ok.

Canute (Knútr, Knud, Knut or Knútur) conquered England. That's more than we know about Ragnar. All we know he might just have been a fictional character made up by Icelanders in the 13th century.

Also, there wasn't a Viking empire and the Viking culture only lasted for 200 years or so.
Scandinavia would represent all that, medieval Denmark, renaissance Sweden and modern-day Scandinavian countries.

OMG SkippyT, it's you!! xD Didn't see you in here, as you changed your interface totally :D Where did the berserker avatar go, and where are all the Earth intruders? :p

In brief - no, I dont support a Swedish civ inclusion in the main game of Civ.... but in scenarios, it's a nice addition.

Scandinavia is not a geographical region. It's a cultural region that stretches over Sweden, Norway and Denmark and the places where they've held influence (Iceland, Faeroes, Finland and maybe Greenland).
Yes and No. Scandinavia is both a geographical region and a cultural region. You have already covered the cultural region. Geographically, Scandinavia is the name of the peninsula, where Sweden and Norway are. The mountain range between Sweden and Norway is called the Scandinavian Mountains. or Skanderna in swedish (have no idea what it is called in norway).

Info was taken from the Swedish National Encyclopedia.

We're talking Civilization here, capital C, the big cool ones we all know. For sure, the peg has been lowered when it is argued that a nation ought to be in because it's doing it's best to help the poor on a tight budget and overall doing quite allright ;)

Was just bringing in some facts. Im swedish myself and I find the Vikings being in perfectly fine and enough.

I'd say
1. rename to Scandanavian civ
2. rename UU to Viking
3. add a more modern leader (probably Margaret with Charismatic Creative... a new female leader, and CC is one of the two remaining combos...besides Phi Ind which is overpowered)

Those two remaining allowable combos should be used for adding more detail to vague civs (Protective Organized should go to Hiawatha of the Native Americans for more of an East Coast, empire builder type)

What's the arguments for having a "Scandianavian civ" instead of the vikings? The vikings did exciting stuff, but scandianavians? Yawn. And I am one, so no "Booh, racist"-rubbish ;)

Combo:
shuts people up
adds a female leader slot
makes the viking civ more of a real civ
gets close to one leader per trait combo

all in all not bad

I daresay vikings weren't less of a civ than many others that are included. One shouldn't look for one solid unified country as a criteria for a civ IMO, that's a bit limiting. And while I think Ragnar is an odd choice for leader (never even heard of him), he does have traits I find fitting for a viking leader. So his actual identity is no biggie, he's just a stereotype viking.

And for my own selfish reasons, scrapping vikings for a later scandianvian civ completely screws over Norway as at that time we were just a dirtfarming vassal, whilst being just as powerful as our neighbours in the viking era.

And bleargh at political correctness-style wanting to cram in a female leader :crazyeye:

Compared to other civs that has been included I would agree with Sweden's inclusion. Overall I think not though (even though I would love to play as them).

Also to whoever it was that talked about Sweden being a regional power only as oposed to Denmark, they did have colonies too you know. Neither Denmark or Sweden had any colonial empires to speak of though (the story of Fredriksøarna is a personal favourite though :D).
Not that it should have any bearing on if the civ is included or not :)

Vikings will have to do, though I think they botched the civ in question with Gimli as a leader :(

And bleargh at political correctness-style wanting to cram in a female leader

Do read up on her... She controlled Denmark at the height of it's medieval power :)

And bleargh at political correctness-style wanting to cram in a female leader :crazyeye:

Ehm... Adding Margaret would not be because she was female. It's because she did something awesome. Just wanted to say it ;)

Unique building: Systembolaget
Health: +3
Happy: -1

Hahahaha! That's hillarious! :lol:

Unique Building (Replaces Forge):

1) +25% :hammers:, +1 :traderoute:

2) +25% :hammers:, +1 :hammers: from Iron, Copper

3) +25% :hammers:, +1 :) from Iron, Copper

4) +25% :hammers:, all mines in the city produce +1 :commerce:

5) +35% :hammers:

Unique Unit (replaces Rifleman)

1) 14 :strength:, begins with the "March" promotion

2) 16 :strength:


What do you think?

Not that I was all that serious re the PO-thing (the :crazyeye: and all), but note:


3. add a more modern leader (probably Margaret with Charismatic Creative... a new female leader, and CC is one of the two remaining combos...besides Phi Ind which is overpowered)

Makes it sound like her being a woman makes her "special". One wouldn't say "a new male leader" in the same manner. But I guess I might be reading to much into it. My other comments stand though.

Well Firaxis is always trying to find good examples of female leaders (Boud, Hatty... and both are definitely less significant Leaders than Margaret) so it is an extra point in her favor (according to them not me)

I'd put the more important points, as getting one step closer to a 'complete Leader Set'. Just need to add a Protective Organized Leader.

Going to do the nasty and quote Wikipedia on some interesting parts:

Keep in mind, there are only 9 millions in this tiny country - there is quite alot of interesting aspects for such a small country.

"The citizens enjoy a high standard of living and the country is generally perceived as modern and liberal,[2] with an organizational and corporate culture that is non-hierarchical and collectivist compared to its Anglo-Saxon counterparts.[3] Nature conservation, environmental protection and energy efficiency are generally prioritized in policy making and embraced by the general public in Sweden."

This "liberal" attitude is less to be found outside the densely populated areas though. We have our share of "rednecks" aswell. Also, lately there is a trend of increased authoritarianism lately.


History:
"The mid 1600s and the early 1700s were Sweden's most successful years as a Great Power. Sweden reached its largest territorial extent during the rule of Charles X (1622–1660) after the treaty of Roskilde in 1658. However, after more than a half century of almost constant warfare the Swedish economy had deteriorated. It would become the lifetime task of Charles' son, Charles XI (1655-1697), to rebuild the economy and refit the army. His legacy to his son, the coming ruler of Sweden Charles XII, was one of the finest arsenals in the world, a large standing army and a great fleet. Sweden's largest threat at this time, Russia, had a larger army but was far behind in both equipment and training. The Swedish army crushed the Russians at the Battle of Narva in 1700, one of the first battles of the Great Northern War. This led to an overambitious campaign against Russia in 1707, however, ending in a decisive Russian victory at the Battle of Poltava (1709). The campaign had a successful opening for Sweden, which came to occupy half of Poland and making Charles able to claim the Polish throne. But after a long march exposed by cossack raids, the Russian Tsar Peter the Great's scorched-earth techniques and the cold Russian climate, the Swedes stood weakened with a shattered confidence, and enormously outnumbered against the Russian army at Poltava. The defeat meant the beginning of the end for Sweden as Empire."

Hardworking people
"According to the book, The Flight of the Creative Class, by the U.S. economist, Professor Richard Florida of George Mason University, Sweden is ranked as having the best creativity in Europe for business and is predicted to become a talent magnet for the world’s most purposeful workers. The book compiled an index to measure the kind of creativity most useful to business – talent, technology and tolerance – and found Sweden to be the number one spot in Europe and the world. The top ten countries, in descending order, are: Sweden, Japan, Finland, the US, Switzerland, Denmark, Iceland, the Netherlands, Norway and Germany."

Music
"Sweden has a major market for new age and ecologically or environmentally aware music, as well a large portion of pop and rock music have liberal and left-wing political messages."

"With ABBA, Sweden entered into a new era, in which Swedish pop music gained international prominence. Sweden is sometimes referred to as the third largest exporter of pop and rock music in the world, after the US and the UK, but this is disputable and difficult to verify."

Technological innovations:
"The famous Coca Cola bottles introduced in 1916 were designed by the Swedish-American Alex Samuelsson.[73] The zipper was invented in 1913 by Swedish-American Gideon Sundbäck who improved the primitive zip-lock to the model we are using in nowadays. Carl Richard Nyberg got a patent on the blow torch in 1881.[74] The kerosene stove or "Primus" kitchen was invented by Frans Wilhelm Lindqvist in 1892 which was a huge Swedish export success. The 100-scale Celsius temperature scale was invented in the mid 18th century by Anders Celsius. Probably the most famous Swedish invention, dynamite was created by Alfred Nobel in 1867. Gustaf Dalén invented the life-saving gas-driven lighthouse used in shorelines all around the world. Dalén received the Nobel Prize in 1912 for his invention. In 1907 Sven Wingquist created the spheric bearing, since 1907 the world's only bearing factory, Svenska Kullager Fabriken was set up by Wingquist. In the 1920's Baltzar von Platen and Carld Munters created a gas-absorption refrigerator with no mechanic parts based on the absorptions-principle. This was a world sensation and was retailed worldwide by Electrolux which still is a market leading company. Baltzar von Platen also created worlds first arificial diamond by compressing coal in a special pressure chamber. The first pacemaker ever installed in a living person was built by the inventor Rune Elmqvist and the surgery was completed by Åke Senning in 1958. In 1878, Gustaf de Laval created the separator, separating milk from cream and making production of butter much easier and faster. The heritage of Gustav de Laval is still existent in the world leading company Alfa Laval. The modern propeller used in ships was created by John Ericsson in 1839. The safety match, invented in 1844 by Gustaf Erik Pasch, still makes Swedish Match a world leading company. The improvement of Alexander Graham Bell's invention in 1876, Lars Magnus Ericsson constructed the first hand held phone for which he got patents in 1895. Ericsson is today one of the world's largest Telecom corporations. In 1930 Ruben Rausing and Erik Åkerlund founded the company "Åkerlund & Rausing" which invented the plastic-covered cardboard cases. Tetra Pak is still the world leading producer of this kind of packages. Johan Petter Johansson invented the adjustable spanner in 1888 which was designed so that the grip gets tighter while the wrench is being pulled. Bluetooth is also a Swedish invention."



There's more to it. Our high-tech industry is one of the worlds most advanced. One of the first flat-screen types was swedish, allthough the patent was sold to Japan (wtf why noone financed it beats me). Alot of important medicinal breakthroughs are swedish. You also got the famous Biologist Carl von Linné who travelled all over the world to categorize and name plants and animals.

And there are alot of terribly boring people in this country who doesnt know how to drink alcohol like civilized people:crazyeye:

I want Sweden as much as I want Poland. So not at all.

Why not Poland? It's been important! It started WWII!(Sort of).

I think Sweden probably deserves to be a civ as much/more than Poland.

Can't say I'm unhappy with the current selection, though. Would you consider the Vikings more or less precursors to your society (like the Italians having Rome)?

I think Sweden probably deserves to be a civ as much/more than Poland.

Can't say I'm unhappy with the current selection, though. Would you consider the Vikings more or less precursors to your society (like the Italians having Rome)?

Hey! Poland is a great nation! They contributed great literature to the World as well as being around no matter how hard it's crushed! Sweden is just part of the Vikings!:aargh: [pissed]

Meh. Lots of great civs in history aren't in the game. If you're gonna put civs in all willy-nilly, why not put in the Lydians? They have a cool name.

And the Trojans too, for that matter. +25% to walls FTW.

ARGH STOP going Poland! We finally have a legal thread for it! :lol:

I want Poland in too, but don't go there. It would close this thread.

Well it's still an important nation.

Well it's still an important nation.

I'd like it in, too, but if we talk too much about it, a Mod will close this thread so ssch! :p

I think you mean "sshhh!"

I think you mean "sshhh!"

Oh damnit, readed too much German xD

Meh. Lots of great civs in history aren't in the game. If you're gonna put civs in all willy-nilly, why not put in the Lydians? They have a cool name.

And the Trojans too, for that matter. +25% to walls FTW.

City defenses obsoleted by Horses

City defenses obsoleted by Horses

Ha, now that's a laugh!:lol:

This thread is now officially about Poland?
What is the difference between North Poles and South Poles?

This thread is now officially about Poland?
What is the difference between North Poles and South Poles?

No it is not. You're acting like a racist pig.:mad:

No it is not. You're acting like a racist pig.:mad:

Uh :eek:
It was a joke, word-game. Im caucasian so that would make me racist towards myself.

Only if your Polish.

Only if your Polish.

Poles aren't a race, they are a cultural group, an ethnicity. If you hate Poles, you aren't a racist, you're a weird kind of a nationalist.

EDIT: Poles are part of the Slavic ethnicity, I mean.

If you are a racist, doesn't that mean that you are a person that hates humans (in general, I mean).

I don't think we should call others racist without reason. You aren't a racist just because you happen to love your country. But you are an anoying ... if you keep saying that everywhere. So, yes, we all know that there is people that for some ... reason love poland, fine, we got it.

Let's move on to more important questions, don't you all love Sweden:lol:

Let's move on to more important questions, don't you all love Sweden:lol:

I think Perfection summed it up in this post...

Only if your Polish.

I harbour no malintentions towards any ethnical group, race or nationality in the realms of the known universe but I reserve my rights to make jokes about any of the mentioned subjects.

I think Perfection summed it up in this post...

Haha, lol

(dang, 10chars argh)

I'm a swede and I don't think that Sweden is worthy of having its own civilization in Civ. Almost all european countries have been empires once (or affilated to one). Sweden had its "golden age" just like most other countries. It's nothing particular.

However, the "Systembolaget" (The state-owned liquor shop) suggestion is great.

I'm a swede and I don't think that Sweden is worthy of having its own civilization in Civ. Almost all european countries have been empires once (or affilated to one). Sweden had its "golden age" just like most other countries. It's nothing particular.

However, the "Systembolaget" (The state-owned liquor shop) suggestion is great.
Oh, it's just that Sweden has had "Golden Ages" quite constantly. Sweden is having a "Golden Age" right now.

Oh, it's just that Sweden has had "Golden Ages" quite constantly. Sweden is having a "Golden Age" right now.

Disagreed. Sweden's Golden Age was from about 1650 where it took a decent part of Denmark. Sweden declined economically (Losing Baltic provinces) in the later 1700s or early 1800s and comletely lost actual power when Norway became independent, and Finland was taken by Russia. Today Sweden is more a diplomatic 'powerhouse'.

And what kind of golden age would that be? There's a business boom in the whole world. That's usual. Then there's always a deep recession/crisis.

And what kind of golden age would that be? There's a business boom in the whole world. That's usual. Then there's always a deep recession/crisis.

What I would call a Golden Age. Every nation/civ/state or whatsoever, has an age of prime, which I refer to as the Golden age.

I'd like Sweden as a civ, not for what Sweden did under 'Stormaktstiden', but for what it does today. Sweden is one of the key countries in the world, I should say. Yes, I want Sweden in Civ.

Hahaha! I had to dig up my old login just to quote laugh at that statement!!

Yeah, u wish sweden was a key country :)

What I would call a Golden Age. Every nation/civ/state or whatsoever, has an age of prime, which I refer to as the Golden age.

I forgot to quote, sorry. Wasn't meant to be a reply to your post. I agree with your statement.

Oh, it's just that Sweden has had "Golden Ages" quite constantly. Sweden is having a "Golden Age" right now.

What kind of golden age?

The golden age of having its education system failing?
The golden age of journalism taking over the politics systems completly, where the newspapers rule the country, not the elected leaders?

The golden age of having its education system failing?
The golden age of journalism taking over the politics systems completly, where the newspapers rule the country, not the elected leaders?

Uh. Yeah. Kill free speech forever, really brilliant. Do the finnish-style school, where the kids get afraid of everything because they have such pressure from first grade. And mentally unstable. Really great.
Besides, Sweden created Finnish civilization, you wouldn't want to be a part of the old iron curtain states, would you? Without Swedens colonization in your country, you would have slavs walk in there which would (most likely) a part of Russia. During the winterwar, most of the food to Finland came from Sweden, and a lot of weapons too for that matter.

Besides, all that Finland seem to do these days is build nuclear power plants because they want "their own electricity".

What "swedishguy" means is that swedish economy is on a high right now, although that is declining.

Our elected leaders are just liberal corporate tools. Most newspapers are owned by the ones whose interests the government represents. Furthermore, most of our newspapers are pro-government (or even more right wing). Not just the editorials. There's no free speech in Sweden. Only for those who own media. But of course we're free to speak with ourselves in some cellar, where nobody can hear us. That's free - doesn't cost anything. It's free to live on the street too.

It's very obvious that this new government favours the elite. Most tax cuts of importance only affect the rich and corporations. People didn't realize this before the elections. They were just listening to the very same "objective"=liberal media.

The finnish people was already there before the swedes seized power. The bolsheviks made finland independent from Russia.

World economy is "on a high". Not just Sweden. No golden age. swedishguy just thinks sweden is great because _he_ lives there.

Our elected leaders are just liberal corporate tools. Most newspapers are owned by the ones whose interests the government represents. Furthermore, most of our newspapers are pro-government (or even more right wing). Not just the editorials. There's no free speech in Sweden. Only for those who own media. But of course we're free to speak with ourselves in some cellar, where nobody can hear us. That's free - doesn't cost anything.

It's very obvious that this new government favours the elite. Most tax cuts of importance only affect the rich and corporations. People didn't realize this before the elections. They were just listening to the very same "objective"=liberal media.

The finnish people was already there before the swedes seized power. The bolsheviks made finland independent from Russia.

World economy is "on a high". Not just Sweden. No golden age. swedishguy just thinks sweden is great because _he_ lives there.

How is the media different in other countries? I find it quite strange that you seem to have sniffed out this incredibly chocking statement on your own. Sure, I can agree with you on the point that having a so one-sided press is bad, but it isn't like we're living in Oceania (1984) here. No acopalypse.
And, yes, the new government is clearly destroying sweden. The people who thought they would gain anything from the change (and didn't live in a villa in Danderyd) are pretty much the same folks who blamed Lars Danielsson for the whole . .. .. .. .ing tsunami. As if having him reacting faster would have saved a single life. Pathetic.

Finland was never united (if I'm not faulty) before they were chopped of from Sweden, so they would probably better pass as the same "race" as swedes. But idonnu. It doesn't belong here.

Förresten kunde vi väl ta hela skiten på svenska, inte fan är det nån annan som bryr sig. Varför bryr vi oss.

The media is not a lot different anywhere practically. But it can be improved in numerous ways. I'm just targeting global liberal hypocrisy. They speak about freedom but the majority gets the opposite. And ultimately when hundreds of thousands of people in some far-away country expose their lies and the whole system is threatened they make tanks and heads roll in the streets. There are many examples of this. Some well known are: the many coups in South Am, Africa and Asia in the 5-80ths, the constitutional crisis in Russia 1993 and especially the coup in Venezuela a few years ago. When liberals commit the very same atrocities some of their opponents do, it's ok.

I think Finland belonged to Russia longer time than it belonged to Sweden. But the reason why they don't have a russian speaking minority would be that the finnish local rule was more autonomous. However, perhaps if Sweden was to be modeled after the 17th century "golden age", Finland should be included.

Haha, nej det är nog ingen som bryr sig. Men diskussioner ger alltid något.

Geez dude, don't you know the history of the Motherland. :D
Finland was part of sweden for like, a really long time. I don't orka check it all up, but it's longer than Scania has been a part of Sweden today. And it was a part of russia for like 200 years. Which is lame.

Concerning the whole liberal-thingie, I don't think that's very appliable here. I mean, the papers who name themselves "liberal" are more often than not conservative. At least in sweden where conservative is a humiliation. And the ones which I see as liberal (DN?) are usually quite unprone to comment on foreign stuff except in very vivid words.

Well, in my opinion all parties in the parliament and most newspapers are liberal here, more or less. There's no real opposition. Some parties just have different tax policies and views on how the fruits of the wage-slavery labour should be distributed in a "just" way. When they should be abolishing wage-slavery first of all instead. I also doubt there are many real leftists in the so called left parties (i.e. real social democrats (Palme types), communists etc). The rest are just shades of blue.

In my country, both Right and Left hate our leader.

Well, in my opinion all parties in the parliament and most newspapers are liberal here, more or less. There's no real opposition. Some parties just have different tax policies and views on how the fruits of the wage-slavery labour should be distributed in a "just" way. When they should be abolishing wage-slavery first of all instead. I also doubt there are many real leftists in the so called left parties (i.e. real social democrats (Palme types), communists etc). The rest are just shades of blue.

Dude it's so funny that you should say that, as a lot (most?) people think excactly the opposite. Which is, that being under social democratic rule for almost 70 years of non-stop rule (there are exceptions but they sucked) Swedens political map has been coloured reddish. And that all the right-parties are infact purple.
I think this is just due to the mellanmjölkning of the whole nation. I mean, being politically correct and "leftist" at the same time just doesn't work. Eventually, in a state where everyone wants to be good with everyone, everyone falls into more or less the same political hole (fåra).

Geez dude, don't you know the history of the Motherland. :D
Finland was part of sweden for like, a really long time. I don't orka check it all up, but it's longer than Scania has been a part of Sweden today. And it was a part of russia for like 200 years. Which is lame.

Not quite,

The Grand Duchy of Finland (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grand_Duchy_of_Finland) was the predecessor state of modern Finland that existed in its territory 1809–1917 as part of the Russian Empire.

Or did you mean Old Finland (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Old_Finland)?

Dude it's so funny that you should say that, as a lot (most?) people think excactly the opposite. Which is, that being under social democratic rule for almost 70 years of non-stop rule (there are exceptions but they sucked) Swedens political map has been coloured reddish. And that all the right-parties are infact purple.
I think this is just due to the mellanmjölkning of the whole nation. I mean, being politically correct and "leftist" at the same time just doesn't work. Eventually, in a state where everyone wants to be good with everyone, everyone falls into more or less the same political hole (fåra).

Not purple, just less blue. Personally, I think that we are more to the middle than many countries - they are the ones who are moving to extremes, not us. But yeah, our people love the "middle ground" far too much but I hope new generations will kill that and the infamous "Jante". I would like to see some politicians with solid ideas on how to guide society in large, not just pathetic issues lake gasoline tax. Socialdemokraterna are the ones who changed the most, a classjourney from worker-party to middleclass-with-two-cars-big-villa-and-4 HDTVs-swedes. In my eyes, they are just another "lightblue" party these days. Like IlyaZ says, there is no real opposition anymore - Vänsterpartiet is stuck in a old and flawed philosophy, they need to modernize if anyone is to take them seriously.

Förresten, jag bryr mig för fan! Skönt att slippa höra de vanliga puckade diskussionerna om sakfråga A eller B skall göras på sätt 1 eller 2 när alternativen är 500. :lol:

Not quite,

The Grand Duchy of Finland was the predecessor state of modern Finland that existed in its territory 1809–1917 as part of the Russian Empire.

Or did you mean Old Finland?

This is just getting more confusing for each second. Sweden OWNED Finland for a really long time, from around the 13th-century (and don't come dragging with "uuuh, they didn't own this little piece of land up in samiland", because it doesn't matter. Sweden could have conquered Finland in the 16th century, it would still have been a part of sweden longer than it was a own state) to 1809 when the russians grabbed it.

Not purple, just less blue. Personally, I think that we are more to the middle than many countries - they are the ones who are moving to extremes, not us. But yeah, our people love the "middle ground" far too much but I hope new generations will kill that and the infamous "Jante". I would like to see some politicians with solid ideas on how to guide society in large, not just pathetic issues lake gasoline tax. Socialdemokraterna are the ones who changed the most, a classjourney from worker-party to middleclass-with-two-cars-big-villa-and-4 HDTVs-swedes. In my eyes, they are just another "lightblue" party these days. Like IlyaZ says, there is no real opposition anymore - Vänsterpartiet is stuck in a old and flawed philosophy, they need to modernize if anyone is to take them seriously.


The journey of the socialdemokrats from left to middle is simply due to the fact that the welfare that they created have given people money and created the rich state that sweden is today. (spelar ingen roll vad Niklas Ekdal tycker i dagens ledare...)
This have shrunked the worker-class to a small minority whose votes aren't really that important. All parties are always looking for votes and nothing but votes. Vänsterpartiet aren't even flirting with the workers, they are really only aiming for the confused adolesences these days, kindof like Miljöpartiet. Although I think mp is favourable, their party-leaders are at least not completly out of their minds, like Ohly is.

Det jag menar är att det här kanske inte direkt är rätt forum för såna här grejer... ;)

EDIT: Ok, sorry then. I thought you "not quited" something else in my text. =)

This is just getting more confusing for each second. Sweden OWNED Finland for a really long time, from around the 13th-century (and don't come dragging with "uuuh, they didn't own this little piece of land up in samiland", because it doesn't matter. Sweden could have conquered Finland in the 16th century, it would still have been a part of sweden longer than it was a own state) to 1809 when the russians grabbed it.


I did not say a word about how long Finland was part of Sweden, did i? I merely answered to "200 years part of Russia". Reading comprehension and all that stuff.

This have shrunked the worker-class to a small minority whose votes aren't really that important. All parties are always looking for votes and nothing but votes.

It's no small minority. The lower class probably consists of about 98% of the people here. That's the ones who primarily got to work to live. The rest, the upper class live by what they own. Machines, companies, shares, factories etc, pure money (money from interest rates) etc. And by hiring people to pay their living by working for them. One man can't get rich all by himself. But when he has hundreds of employees that work for him, it's a piece of cake.

It doesn't matter if you drive mercedes. You're still a wage-slave.

Oh come on. That's just marking words. The part of the "worker-class" who work in industries or otherwise heavy, low-paid jobs was what I was referring to.

Uh. Yeah. Kill free speech forever, really brilliant.
Kill free speech? Who said anything about that?
Do the finnish-style school, where the kids get afraid of everything because they have such pressure from first grade. And mentally unstable. Really great.
Ah, to grade peoples efforts in school, yeah I heard you get realy scared and mentally unstable from that.. not.

But to allow kids live out their own revolution in their school as it is in nowdays sweden is a good thing yeah? If a teacher says to the class that they should STFU she gets fired because she offended the children while they talked in their mobile phones in class?

Already the statistics they do in *all* nordic countries shows swedens school system and "grades" are failing heavily. I don't remeber how many years ago Sweden was infront of finland on the education study, but now Finland is way before you.

As a side note, I happen to know that even the swedish king thinks nowdays school system in Sweden is a failure. How can I know that the swedish King thought? Well maybe he mentioned it on his visit to Finland, Vaasa on it's 400th birthday last year :)

Besides, Sweden created Finnish civilization, you wouldn't want to be a part of the old iron curtain states, would you? Without Swedens colonization in your country, you would have slavs walk in there which would (most likely) a part of Russia. During the winterwar, most of the food to Finland came from Sweden, and a lot of weapons too for that matter.

Besides, all that Finland seem to do these days is build nuclear power plants because they want "their own electricity".

What "swedishguy" means is that swedish economy is on a high right now, although that is declining.

My thanks for you help in the war Sweden yes, I had no intention in beeing ungratefull, my previouse statment about sweden's goldenage was just to point out the inaccuracy of it.

Nuclear power plants? Something wrong with it? It's for sure better alternative than Coal or Oil powerplants. Nuclear power plants don't produce pollution that damages enviroment if the waste is stored correctly, which it is.

And I guess Finland will have to sell some of it power to Sweden while you shut down your infrastructure ;)


"But the nuclear disaster in tjernobil for 20 years ago"

I don't see any reveleance to an old, dusty, undermaintaned, under staffed, with old technology built nuclear powerplant anymore... honestly.

I don't see any reveleance to an old, dusty, undermaintaned, under staffed, with old technology built nuclear powerplant anymore... honestly.


Guys, you don't think you've gotten a little off topic now?


My two cents about nuclear plants:
I wouldn't trust atleast Swedish nuclear plants. One of those quite close to Stockholm had to be shut down repeatedly and for long periods of time this summer due to several security failures and such.
A later investigation proved that the security was so sorely lacking that as to seem a joke. The personel would frequently disobey any or all security instructions and would be drinking large amounts of alcohol at work and so on and so on.

Sweden isn't Finland, but my entire life I've been feed the "oh we're so much safer" argument which this summer was proven quite false.
A coal plant won't quite meltdown in the same way as a nuclear one ;)
A nuclear plant will only ever be as safe as the humans who man it (quite the reason for chernobyls failure as well actually).

Yes but the coal plant "melts down" the nature around it, constantly :)

And the nuclear powerplant close to stockholm, has not blown up, to my knowledge? :) That means it's safe - monitoring equipment shuts down the plant if there are questions, as have happened a couple of times in the swedish nuclear powerplant.

If people are drunk at work at a nuclear powerplant, well then something is wrong about the whole staff @ that plant but....

Or have they just taken 1 beer to the lunch and media is making them look like drunks again? ;)

A state commision shut them down for a while due to their failing security routines (they where the one fronting the alcohol thingie) :)

Ah, to grade peoples efforts in school, yeah I heard you get realy scared and mentally unstable from that.. not.

But to allow kids live out their own revolution in their school as it is in nowdays sweden is a good thing yeah? If a teacher says to the class that they should STFU she gets fired because she offended the children while they talked in their mobile phones in class?

Already the statistics they do in *all* nordic countries shows swedens school system and "grades" are failing heavily. I don't remeber how many years ago Sweden was infront of finland on the education study, but now Finland is way before you.

As a side note, I happen to know that even the swedish king thinks nowdays school system in Sweden is a failure. How can I know that the swedish King thought? Well maybe he mentioned it on his visit to Finland, Vaasa on it's 400th birthday last year

Japan has (I think) the highest suicide-rate in the world. This is due to almost nothing but the extreme pressures the children are put under from the time of their first day in school to the last. So yes, that DOES make you mentally unstable.

Concerning the whole "test" thingie, I'm going to be horribly racist. Whilst a lot of other countries (denmark for example) shut their borders more or less completly against fugitives, Sweden has gotten 50% of all the emigrants from Iraq who came to Europe. That's a lot. Just a few months ago, I believe that the swedish city of Södertälje received around 1 800 iraqis A WEEK. Thinking that all these children will just jump into school directly and do perfectly is just imbecile.

I have nothing against nuclear power plants. I like them. It's just the way Finland are buildning them. Their main target seems to be to show Russia that they are good at stuff and thus don't need stuff from them, not as much give their people electricity.
And Sweden hardly lacks electricity... What do you thing we do with all the rivers in the north? Bade?

And the whole "accident" with Barsebäck, or whichever it was, was hardly as serious as Chernobyl was, not ever even close of being so. They just shut it down a couple of times cause there was a machinal problem somewhere. Thus, the media writes "Panicstop".

Plus, the king is a goddamn kristdemokrat, ie as far to the right as you can get really, his heart wish is probably that only the nobles (Östermalm) should be able to go to school anyway.

Vikings are enough ;)

No, away with vikings and on whith Sweden!

I voted Yes!
I think that ther cold be both a Swedish civ and a Danish and posible a Norwegian civ, the more the merier

I voted yes - Sweden was, believe it or not, a major power in Europe in the 17th and 18th centuries.

But, historically, the main reason Sweden (and Denmark) were major powers was because German peoples were so fractious and divided. The Scaninavian nations simply could not compete with the vastly higher populations down south unless that were the case.

Wodan

Cant you just shut up and let me live happy?

But, historically, the main reason Sweden (and Denmark) were major powers was because German peoples were so fractious and divided. The Scaninavian nations simply could not compete with the vastly higher populations down south unless that were the case.

Wodan

Yes so what a great nation must be abel to keap ther nation together and the scandinavian nations did a hell of a good job ther. Dident they

so what you are saying is that Germany sholdent be a Civ:lol:

Yes so what a great nation must be abel to keap ther nation together and the scandinavian nations did a hell of a good job ther. Dident they

so what you are saying is that Germany sholdent be a Civ:lol:
I'm saying the HRE shouldn't be a Civ. :cool:

Wodan

I'm saying the HRE shouldn't be a Civ. :cool:

Wodan

I now I am just mesing whith you.:crazyeye:
but dont you think the more the merier?:goodjob:

Yes, I know. :)

Oh, sure, it'd be nice to have more Civs. And I agree that Sweden in particular is a natural choice. The problem is what do we remove to add them? Programming time is a limited resource....

Wodan

I now I am just mesing whith you.:crazyeye:
but dont you think the more the merier?:goodjob:

Depends. See, world maps can be problematic. But I agree with you (Not Norway)

...

and so the thread is revived