Just started my first game of BTS. Playing as Sumaria and dropping down to Noble level for my first game, I was exploring with my warrior when I soon came across the Dutch not far away from my capital. Remembering that the improved A1 no longer gave them the starting bonuses they used to have, I decided to try my luck and enter his territory hoping to find at least a capturable worker or at most, a undefended capital. I did see his warrior to the West of me outside his borders, and did find a defenceless capital, promptly taking it! And a few turns later upon discovering the Japanese, entered his borders with two warriors eventually capturing Kyoto which was defended by just one warrior.
I actually think this is really great, especially for weaning off overcrowding landmasses, and certainly don't want anything changed to the 'improved A1'. So if you have an early encounter with the A1, and you know you still have enough trading companions alive, don't be surprised to find early undefended A1 cities!:D

I'm playing on warlord. I've found something similar...
I was, very easily, able to pump out a Stack of Doom (Mostly swordsmen, horsemen, a few chariots/axemen/spearmen). I had just 2 cities, but was able to pump out units to just absolutely crush the best civ at the time. I took all 4 of their cities.

They even did a feable counter-attack against my huge stack of 20 units with their 4 units.

Calder, that's called rushing. Good job discovering it.

Janook, that's called attacking. If you've figured it out, you're ready for levels above Warlord.

Calder, that's called rushing. Good job discovering it.

Janook, that's called attacking. If you've figured it out, you're ready for levels above Warlord.

Thats called sarcasm fear it.

'improved A1'

Is A1 some new hack3r code I don't know about, or it just a mis-typed AI?

Calder, that's called rushing. Good job discovering it.

Janook, that's called attacking. If you've figured it out, you're ready for levels above Warlord.

Echem, I found it SURPRISING that the top computer had only 2 or 3 defenders in each city and only 4 extra units for attacking.

why is it a good thing that the AI is leaving undefended capitals at the beginning of the game? how is that an improved opponent?

Don't you usually leave your capital undefended for the first few/many turns while you explore? (Unless you're playing raging barbs or something like that). The AIs won't attack you early, even if you're undefended - so you can get away with it (or could, dunno if this is changed in BTS, but kinda doubt it).

The only reason AI capitals were defended preBTS is due to insane production or unit bonuses that allowed them to crank out a new warrior almost immediately AND send their first unit(s) off exploring.

why is it a good thing that the AI is leaving undefended capitals at the beginning of the game? how is that an improved opponent?

It's the same thing I would do on Warlords SP while the barbs were still animals. There is more to be gained scouting than risked . It puts them on an equal footing in my scenario, so it would be an improvement.

A better way would be that the A.I attacks a weakly defended or unprotected city early, depending on the leader's personality.

Yes, but Janook this is Warlord difficulty. I would expect to have a unit ratio of atleast 20:1 against the AI.

A better way would be that the A.I attacks a weakly defended or unprotected city early, depending on the leader's personality.

Yeah, that seems like the solution to me: make it possible for the AI to see an undefended capital, declare war, and take it. That provides incentive to research hunting/build a warrior first and not use a warrior to explore.

Also, keep in mind that if the AI is near enough to your capital when you declare, you're equally at risk as they are. Actually, that might be another interesting way to offset this human advantage: allow an initial unit--especially a warrior--to survive the taking of its capital. If they take yours after and you razed theirs...

Is A1 some new hack3r code I don't know about, or it just a mis-typed AI?

No, A1 is how steak is done!!!:D

I should have mentioned this game is on Marathon speed, and quite a few turns had passed before discovering what was defending the Japanese capital, I think around my 100th turn. In Warlords by this time, the Japs would have had at least 3 archers with their Drill 1 CGg1 defense bonuses defending Kyoto; and to find just one warrior defending was quite a surprise.
I do agree that something needs to be balanced here, maybe after X amount of turns, the A1 will do the same to you.

Just a thought, anyone playing small Pangea map sizes could at the moment get a very early conquest victory! (I only play Huge maps, so early conquest is a little more difficult.)

Actually, that might be another interesting way to offset this human advantage: allow an initial unit--especially a warrior--to survive the taking of its capital. If they take yours after and you razed theirs...Turn on "require complete kills" option.

The steak sauce in this game is a menace.

Turn on "require complete kills" option.

In the later part of the game though when they have lost everything except 1 explorer which is staying in a powerful country's territory that won't sign open borders with you and is still a political force it is quite an annoyance.

I played on Monarch continents as Sitting Bull... Built a few +6 archers researched writing and went to check out the cities of my new friends...

EMPTY!

Khan, Charlemene, Maya, Incan, each had one city with at least no defender and not more than one unpromoted Archer in anyone city. I declared war and took out Khan and Maya with a just a hand full of my highly promoted archers....

I like the fact we have an expansion.... :)

But this seems very broken atm....:crazyeye:

It's the same thing I would do on Warlords SP while the barbs were still animals. There is more to be gained scouting than risked . It puts them on an equal footing in my scenario, so it would be an improvement.

no it doesn't... these are computer opponents, not humans. you have a much greater advantage in leaving your capital undefended, because if you see a threat you can and will know to immediately change tactics to meet it. the AI doesn't know how to take calculated risks like humans.

If this is true for Monarch in BTS, I may have to move up to Emperor or maybe even higher than that.:crazyeye:

If this is true for Monarch in BTS, I may have to move up to Emperor or maybe even higher than that.:crazyeye:

Or you could just not hunt around for empty capitals

Perhaps they should have a no rush option, or the AI should do the same, so that you have to leave defenses in your capital. Or a start of 2 warriors/1 warrior 1 scout might work instead of the 1 warrior 1 scout.

Just started my first game of BTS. Playing as Sumaria and dropping down to Noble level for my first game, I was exploring with my warrior when I soon came across the Dutch not far away from my capital. Remembering that the improved A1 no longer gave them the starting bonuses they used to have, I decided to try my luck and enter his territory hoping to find at least a capturable worker or at most, a undefended capital. I did see his warrior to the West of me outside his borders, and did find a defenceless capital, promptly taking it! And a few turns later upon discovering the Japanese, entered his borders with two warriors eventually capturing Kyoto which was defended by just one warrior.
I actually think this is really great, especially for weaning off overcrowding landmasses, and certainly don't want anything changed to the 'improved A1'. So if you have an early encounter with the A1, and you know you still have enough trading companions alive, don't be surprised to find early undefended A1 cities!:D

Two Comments,

1) I have done this on warlords Prince level, marathon speed, huge maps before. Once took out Saladin and hatshepsut while both sent their first warrior out exploring.
2) Played first BTS on marathon as Sitting Bull. Arround 1000BC, through espionage, I found my next door neighbor Victoira was building the pyramids, researching archery and had one Warrior protecting London. I declared war with my lone dogwarrior and too London.

Just started my first game of BTS. Playing as Sumaria and dropping down to Noble level for my first game, I was exploring with my warrior when I soon came across the Dutch not far away from my capital. Remembering that the improved A1 no longer gave them the starting bonuses they used to have, I decided to try my luck and enter his territory hoping to find at least a capturable worker or at most, a undefended capital. I did see his warrior to the West of me outside his borders, and did find a defenceless capital, promptly taking it! And a few turns later upon discovering the Japanese, entered his borders with two warriors eventually capturing Kyoto which was defended by just one warrior.
I actually think this is really great, especially for weaning off overcrowding landmasses, and certainly don't want anything changed to the 'improved A1'. So if you have an early encounter with the A1, and you know you still have enough trading companions alive, don't be surprised to find early undefended A1 cities!:D

A1 is a kind of sauce. AI is what you are thinking of. Artificial Intelligence, I don't know what an Artificial 1 is.

All thru the game the AIs seem to leave their cities very poorly defended. Only played Monarch so far, but it seems this game needs a patch ASAP.

To tell the truth you just plain stupid if you complain that you can do this and then keep doing it. I remember on the original version of Civ IV you could in peace negotiations get their entire empire and anything else you wanted by putting it in the list and then going ahead and just clicking, "lets burry the hatchet, what's the price for peace?" and it would get some "only one civ many offer" thing and you got your demands met. I never tryed it again because it just made it boring. Just ignore this, unless you want to ruin the game for yourself.

To tell the truth you just plain stupid if you complain that you can do this and then keep doing it. I remember on the original version of Civ IV you could in peace negotiations get their entire empire and anything else you wanted by putting it in the list and then going ahead and just clicking, "lets burry the hatchet, what's the price for peace?" and it would get some "only one civ many offer" thing and you got your demands met. I never tryed it again because it just made it boring. Just ignore this, unless you want to ruin the game for yourself.

It's not just in the opening turns, the AI just plain doesn't defend its cities properly. The only way to stop that from ruining the game is if you don't go to war.

Yeah, I took out the Dutch on Prince with my lone dog soldier before 2000 B.C.

Does this happen at Normal speed?

I think an amusing way to deal with this would be to patch the AI so that they make these same opportunistic attacks that a human would. Then if you sent your one warrior out exploring, you would be playing Russian roulette with your entire empire. Although I suppose you could always reload.

Does this happen at Normal speed?

Probably, as long as the AI civ isn't too far away.

Not sure what version of BtS you guys are playing, but my AI does a fine job of filling their cities with defenders.

I won't deny that what you're saying is happening, but I think several people are painting with a VERY broad brush here.

The production bonuses have been cut down due to the better AI, so things like this are bound to happen early game. But I have not yet seen a decent AI city after the ancient era remain undefended or severely underdefended.

In my most recent game as germany, I took out France who was right next door to me, but they managed to at least 3 archers in each city with a few chariots running around. I was still able to take him, but it was a little bit of a rush tactic.

In my most recent game as germany, I took out France who was right next door to me, but they managed to at least 3 archers in each city with a few chariots running around. I was still able to take him, but it was a little bit of a rush tactic.

Wow. They built 3 archers per city and had a massive standing army of a few chariots? Just like in Warlords 2.08, AIs basically don't resist a proper invasion.

Fellows, turn on Aggressive AI if you want a challenge. That mechanic has changed and no longer causes a hidden diplomatic penalty for the player, but rather has the AIs focus more on military.

http://realmsbeyond.net/forums/showpost.php?p=24977&postcount=16

Darrell

lol

That post is awesome.

Blake literally calls out 95% of the Civ player population on requiring easy-mode to make the game fun for them.

Blake literally calls out 95% of the Civ player population on requiring easy-mode to make the game fun for them.

Yeah...but that's okay :cooool:. I'll probably end up playing about half my games with it on and half with it off, because sometimes I want to just build in relative peace and quiet and sometimes I want a bit more interference. What's clear though is that the problem people are complaining about in this thread thankfully has a solution available. I wish it was better advertised, the old Aggressive AI was a pretty lame option, it just mean the AIs tended to dislike you. Now it really means they are aggressive, and hence better able to deal with an aggressive player!

Darrell

I have to say I was surprised when after starting out on my own smallish continent on a Noble/Standard size map, I finally got Astrology... and crossed the ocean to find the mighty Incan empire had a whole 3 cities. With half of their continent unoccupied.

Their cities were mostly 2 archer cities (I can't complain about that. It tends to be what I do as well). And their capital is one tough nut to crack, but it's now the only city they have left (and I could vassalize them, but what fun would that be?)

Sure, Noble is relatively easy for me pre-BTS. But so far I've only won one prince game. I normally just barely lose at Prince. I'm going to crush the AI in this game, and I had a terrible, terrible start.

The AI may be better (requiring fewer bonuses), but I'm going to have to raise my difficulty level to find the new sweetspot because the AI is just not as tough at the level-by-level basis. If I'm beating Deity, then I'll complain.

The reduced AI bonuses area major draw for me, I hate play emperor+ because its such a slog.

However, it does seem like a few lines of code are missing

IF enemy/neutral unit appears on border AND have military THEN

move military to intercept

ELSE

build military fast

ENDIF

There, give me a job :lol: