Hi,

I tend to go for:

1. The Oracle

A great early wonder, as it propels you forward technologically. I usually take Metal Casting (see #2).

2. The Colossus

Usually have a coastal city in my first 3 or 4. Get a forge and then crank this baby before anyone else can. I great boost to financial stability.

3. The Parthanon

I love getting Great People. Accelerate with the Parthanon.

4. The Great Library

I love those extra scientists.

5. Hanging Gardens

Love that extra health and population

6. University of Sankore

Boosts research at just the right time

7. Spiral Miranet

Boosts financial late in the game

8. Taj Mahal

I usually get this just after I get Military Tradition. Great for cranking out those Cavalry.

That's my perfect game. If I get all of these, I'm quite happy.

Sometimes I'll go for Stonehenge, but not very often. I don't like trying for the Pyramids. I'd rather find out who got it, and go and wipe them out.

Anyway. Thoughts?

Cheers.

I like to get Pyramids so i can switch to any goverment civic I want early on in the game. Thats usually the first Wonder I go for if I do build one.

It's sort of all situational. Always going after a certain type of wonder only works on the easy levels.

BTW, what is with the fanatism over metal-casing with the oracle people tend to go over? Alphabet I'd think is the superior choice.

Metal Casting is the most expensive one you can get for free. Why not?

Another choice I've seen people take is Code of Laws. I guess it's up to your own personal style and preference.

Cheers.

Metal Casting is the most expensive one you can get for free. Why not?

Another choice I've seen people take is Code of Laws. I guess it's up to your own personal style and preference.

Cheers.

Sometimes it still depends. If you don't have a religion, want a bit more culture, is going for liberalism route, playing organized leaders, getting cities far away and want courthouses, or want Caste system for SE, etc, losing a 100 beakers in taking the cheaper CoL is worth it.

Recently if I get a very nice financial start, I may even research monarchy by myself and time the oracle well to shoot for feudalism slingshot. Then I'll switch to vassalage and hereditary rule in one turn and go for longbow rush. It's doable at Monarch level over 50% of time (easier than the old version CS slingshot as monarchy is cheaper than CoL). If you fail you still have monarchy, a very good tech to relieve the happiness cap early.

Lately I've been going for the Pyramids again first (plus Great Wall first if I have stone). If I can get the Oracle in my second city, I'll go for it too, but prefer a land grab strategy currently (at Monarch difficulty). Representation from Pyramids is worth more in the short and long term than Oracle's free tech I think. I tend to run specialists rather than cottage spam most of the time though.

I'll try and get the Parthenon too in my highest food city.

Latest game (looks like it's going to be my first Monarch win [Ragnar], hooray), I got Pyramids, Great Lighthouse (just as a bonus really since I had stone and it was cheap), Great Library in the capital, Oracle in my second city, no chance for getting the parthenon so I didn't bother.

Got 3 great engineers too (wanted scientists really, but still won liberalism race) but I used one on West Point and another on Taj Mahal (basically a golden age for 1 engineer, got me to cavalry fast after taking Nationalism from liberalism). Probably going to use the spare one for Statue of Liberty when I get democracy with the last one, unless I change from domination plan to space when the space elevator will be built).

I do like the Hanging Gardens but seem to get beaten to them most of the time. Captured Notre Dame from Hannibal in my latest game that's a nice one too, but I rarely go for Theology since I don't tend to get many prophets with my pyramids strat. Angkor Wat and Uni of Sankore similarly are less important to me.

I always seem to build the Eiffel Tower too because it's on the way to space techs (radio) and there isn't much to build until after rocketry for other cities.

I tend to skip Oracle since it is so insanely expensive for what you get.

What? Insanely expensive at 150 hammers? You bet!

I also have to sink 100 :science: into Poly, 60 :science: into Priesthood and maybe even 50 :science: into Mysticism. I'd rather research Bronze Working, Masonry, Animal Husbandry, Wheel, Pottery, Agriculture and maybe Fishing/Sailing first and only go after the religious techs when I am aiming at etiher Literature or Philosophy.

As does everyone else, I love the Pyramids. My only question is whether I would rather have the equivalent number of hammers in Settlers, Axemen and possibly early UU's. I play on Large maps, so if I'm playing a game that will go into the modern era, I almost always grab Pentagon. A free promotion for every unit produced in every city is nothing to sneeze at. I also enjoy the Statue of Liberty on those maps as well (assuming the majority of my empire is on one continent).

Generally, I'll only be guaranteed to grab the Great Library, National and Heroic Epics, West Point, Iron Works and Oxford and Wall Street. I find that the appropriate National Wonders are more important than the World Wonders most of the time (Pyramids aside).

If I'm going absolutely wonder-tastic, I'll also go for Temple of Artemis/Great Lighthouse and Oracle all in the same high production, high food coastal city. This assumes I have a high production, high food coastal city, of course. :)

Great Wall -> Oracle -> Pyramid.

Protection -> CoL -> Rep, makes REX so much easier. :lol:

It all depends on what leader i'm playing as. Charismatic means i'll try stonehenge often. Obviously pyramids are excellent if philosophical or running a SE in general. With BTS out, i've been playing around with shwedagon paya. It's quite good as you get theocracy w/o having to touch the religous path other than meditation, and you also get early access to free religion if the diplomatic situation is tricky early on.

I like the Pyramids more for the Great Engineers they produce than the actual effect of the wonder. You won't be able to produce any other Engineer GP points till you get to Metal Casting (Forges) or Mathematics (Hanging Gardens), so if you want an early Great Engineer the Pyramids are vital. Why is a Great Engineer so good? Because you can then use him to rush build any other wonder you like (at least for the first half of the game). Why choose between the Pyramids/Parthenon when you could have both?

Stonehenge I'll build fairly often for the quick culture boost in new cities if I'm not playing a creative civ. Gives the city a break to grow between settlers as well. The Oracle isn't bad either, but becomes difficult to get at high level. Dirt cheap though. The Colossus is generally easy to get even at high level, so I often pick up that one as well. Extra commerce is always handy.

Unless you're running a specialist economy I find the Pyramids far too expensive to be worth it. OK great engineer points are nice, but the cost is huge and early enough to seriously damage your civ. The temple of artemis isn't bad for an early GP boost. The other early great wonders I tend to ignore. Chichen Itza is plain useless, the parthenon isn't that impressive and gets built far too fast.

MrCynical, recently I've had a more better affection for temple of artemis. It's not so much the trade-routes issue, but the free priest also which comes with it. I tend to love priests.

But I think, the all round GP boost is GL. You get GP from BOTH the library itself, and each scientist correct? Now, compare that to the Great Wall, 250 hammer investment, and you only get 1 lousy gpp total.

Naturally, wonders shouldn't be based just on their pts, but I think I'm making my point (no pun intended).

I generally shoot for the Oracle, especially if I end up with Marble nearby, but I think I'm going to change that. The research flash is nice, but not necessarily worth the techs you need to get it. Plus Great Prophets are not my favorite. Better to go for Great Library.

I'm trying to move away from Wonders anyway...I'm too much of a Wonder whore.

Well,

Thanks for all the comments. They've given me more food for thought and ideas to use.

Anyway, in my latest game as Isabella, I got Oracle, Parthenon, and Collosus, and then thought - what the heck - I'll give the Pyramids a go, as Madrid has pretty good hammer output, and some forests to chop and no one else has got it yet. And I got it!

It's made a big difference research wise. Early Representation is great.

Cheers.

Moved up to monarch recently and I don't go for any wonders right now ... more focused on building troops and capturing holy cities and wonders :)

I am also a big fan of Frob2900's custom wonder. It gives 1 or more free cities that are already partially developed.

Horde of Axemen

http://i190.photobucket.com/albums/z43/frob2900/Other/wonders.gif

It's very situational for me, depending upon the leader, the map, resources, opponents, and how the game unfolds. The victory condition I'm pursuing is also a factor.

Anyone who's followed the ALC games knows that my favourite wonder is the Great Library. Why? Partially because of the science boost from the 2 free scientists, but mainly because of the help it provides in winning the Liberalism race. I largely agree with popejubal, the Oracle is very expensive in many respects compared to its payoff. Liberalism, though, and the techs on the way to it are are all extremely valuable. Also, the GL is a wonder that benefits just about any leader trait combination, game play style, and victory condition. And I can usually manage it because the AI seems to make Alphabet and Literature low priority techs.

(Side note: it's interesting how the Great Library has almost always been a key wonder in every version of Civilization, even as its effects have varied.)

I'll sometimes pursue the Pyramids if I'm playing as a Philosophical leader and I have a source of stone and several forests for chopping. Dang, those things are expensive! I also have to be running a SE, which is not a given just because I have a Philosophical leader. I run a CE with Elizabeth, for example, and sometimes I simply make do with one or two highly-productive GP farms.

I kind of like nabbing the Colossus now and then. If I can get Metal Casting fairly early and I have several seafood tiles worked by my cities, the required forge and a source of copper make it a pretty cheap wonder to build. I rarely get a Great Merchant from it, however--I tend to have bigger GP priorities (usually GS for the Liberalism path, as noted above).

Aside from those, rarely pursue many of the other early game wonders. Hammers are scarce in the early game, and I usually have other things to spend them on. Building military units and capturing wonders often seems like a better alternative.

When I play as a Spiritual leader (the Egyptians being my favourites there), I like to build the University of Sankore and the Spiral Minaret and spam cheap temples to reap their benefits. Obviously a source of stone is a priority (War Chariots can be very helpful in obtaining one). Computers is, obviously, a low priority in those games, as it obsoletes both wonders, as well as Angkor Wat if I built that.

I usually try to build the Taj Mahal and the Statue of Liberty in the mid-game, but I don't shed many tears if I fail. They're both very nice, but not they're game-breakers if I succeed or fail. Mainly, they assist with finishing the game a little earlier for a slightly-higher score. And as with any wonder, the game is easier to win if I have it and the AI doesn't.

In the late game, the Pentagon is attractive if I'm pursuing a conquest or domination win, while the Three Gorges Dam and the Space Elevator are handy (though not essential) for a space race victory.

I'm not saying I'd never build any of the other wonders--well, maybe Chichen Itza--but special conditions have to exist for me to consider pursuing them.

All wonders are situational isn't it?

For me I only build a wonder if I can get it cheap.

I only go for Oracle if I Start with Myst Tech

I only go for Colossus if I have lots of Coastal cities And etc...

Although for some reason Whenever I play a game where I never build wonders I tend to win alot easier through war... so wonders really arn't everything... except for that annoying Statute or Zeus with a Protective Leader you're attacking especially Qin... :S...

If liberalism is your main goal, and you are trying to get it at very high levels, then oracle becomes extremely powerful. Not only can it propel you far ahead early, but it also prevents other AIs from getting the jump on you. Furthermore, when an AI misses his big jump, he also can not trade that jump to the others letting everyone else take the lead on you as well.

My favorite wonders: The Great Library, The Spiral Minaret, and the University of Sankore. Getting 2 out of 3 of these makes the game a lot easier.

For a normal sized map, I think only the GL would make the game a lot easier, versus 2 out of those 3. This is because the effects of UoS would be so small compared to the investment, and the SM comes from one of the most dead-end & useless techs, which is in the most poorest tech-tree to begin with.

Not to mention, it is a rediculously over-priced tech at that.

But I suppose on a map where you had 50 cities, you can expect a good ROI from it.

Pyramids + Great Library = much easier game.

If I get the Pyramids I tend not to bother with temples etc. because of the extra happiness from representation. I build a few monasteries in my science city if I get the chance, but I'm normally building units there anyway. So the religious building boosting wonders never really get a look in for me. I can get the Pyramids safely these days nearly all the time (on Monarch), I build worker first in capital, grow to size 4, whip a settler, grow back, whip another, then start building the pyramids and nearly always get it unless there's an industrious leader around with stone. Lots of chopping is performed though. On Noble level I used to build Pyramids after getting just 1 settler out, then dropped that plan for my Prince games because I always got attacked mid Pyramid building by Monty or someone like that. After struggling a bit on Monarch, I've gone back to a Pyramid friendly strat. I find it the best way to keep up in tech pace with the AI.

I don't think I have ever researched Divine Right unless I want to lightbulb military tradition and the Great Artist wanted to bulb that instead, I'll probably trade for it though in that case.

Divine Right really needs a free Great Prophet or something to make it worthwhile I think. Versailles is stupidly expensive too.

You know, at one time a lot of people here used to think Pyramids was an awful choice because of its big expense, and that it only allowed you to change between a few civics. Civics which, everyone will be allowed to use anyway at one point or another in the game.

Looks like we have come full-circle.

In almost every game I try to get Great library. If successful then National epic in the same city. Synergy is very powerful. All other wonders are situational and it depends on my Industrius trait and strategic resources at hand.

I've certainly come full circle anyway. I always used to build pyramids when I first started playing. Then I got beaten up badly in my first prince games (noble is too easy I think) and stopped building it, going for oracle and great lib instead.

Now I've refined that strat and ignore the oracle unless I get priesthood early and have marble. Beakers from representation is worth more in the long run than a cheap free tech from oracle that you can trade for later anyway. Although I do like an oracle->metal casting->engineer pyramids gambit, but only on epic speed where you have more time to build a forge and the GP points required are larger, so you have more time to get your engineer going. After reading your threads obsolete I am keen on settling any priests though now, just don't seem to get any with my current games, but if I do (if I do build oracle), I'm not annoyed anymore (reserve that for artists from parthenon or national epic, grr).

EDIT: Skipping the oracle means I don't found confucianism though. Religion is dangerous at monarch level anyway - it does save building monuments or libraries though. I get Taoism from the first GS out of the GLib most of the time anyway.

I always go for the great library though. EDIT: And I often get Hinduism too since it is on the way to literature, if I have mysticism at the beginning. I don't pick that as a religion though on monarch, far too dangerous!

I only really use pyramids for representation, but do change to police state during a long war to cut WW. Having the pyramids also means you can skip monarchy and all subsequent techs until you need banking for rifles. I guess the cavalry beeline (which I'm just beginning to get good at) is nerfed in BtS though.

Well a big bonus with Pyramids, is you can skip the whole constitution branch. Then you take advantage of the UN exploit to get around the emancipation demands, (with no anarchy either!).

In most my Emperor games (if I can get marble near by early), then I love grabbing Temple of Artemis, but you have to be fast! That marble also makes Oracle build super fast for you, and as well as library, so you can take some extra liberties. Then you can also couple a GE slingshot to grab the pyramids.

Now your Rep boosts both your two library specialists, AND your artemis priest. They cost absolutely no food to run, so you're making 6 + 6 + 3 beakers now, just on the science side, even if you turn science funding totally off and run no manual specialists. Eventually, that +1 hammer & gold the priest makes could pay for itself if you try to not obsolete them too soon ( and get your forge modifiers up, etc).

Don't forget you STILL get gp pts while they are running!

Oh and if you get the Wot, that priest doubles its hammer production too.

I dearly miss the Pyramids of old. Anybody remember that?

A FREE GRANARY in every city.

I can't even imagine how amazing that would be in Civ IV even with the lower number of cities that people end up building.

...I think I'm going to go make a mod. :)

Pyramids are great. Oracle I like, if I think I can pull off Oracle->Metal Casting->Forge->Great Engineer->Pyramids.

Beyond that, my favourite is–oddly enough–Angkor Wat. I think priest-heavy SEs are just the cat's pyjamas and you can get multiple temples in cities in the early game for multiple priests, but only one forge for only one engineer. With Angkor Wat, priests are better than engineers anyway!

Pyramids are great. Oracle I like, if I think I can pull off Oracle->Metal Casting->Forge->Great Engineer->Pyramids.

Beyond that, my favourite is–oddly enough–Angkor Wat. I think priest-heavy SEs are just the cat's pyjamas and you can get multiple temples in cities in the early game for multiple priests, but only one forge for only one engineer. With Angkor Wat, priests are better than engineers anyway!

The only downside to AW and running priests all over the place is a plethora of Great Prophets, who generally become less useful as the game goes on. I tend to just settle them in the Wall Street city; the extra gold is nice, but a late GS, GE, or GM would be nicer.

WallStreet is ok in some cases. However, if you have an Oxford/IW city, then there lays a superior double-whammy benefit for a GP. That city will also have your typical market/grocer/bank buildings as well, so you only really miss out on the WS.

BTW, I never have bothered going for the oracle --> forge shot. My only real slingshot/gambit maneuver is GW first then use GE from there for pyramids. Though +1 gpp is a little short, and takes a while without philosophical so you want to dump other GPPs into there from SH, etc. But then you may risk getting GP instead of GE.

I have had some odd emperor games where I had to wait until my third great person arrives, before I got the GE, and yet the pyr was still around to rush-build.

My favorite wonder is Hero Epic. Although every civ can build its own, the earlier you build your own in a decent production city, the better. I recently played an immortal game. This is the only wonder I built.

Other than that, The Great Library is always good. It helps tremendously for the race towards liberalism. I found AI does not really prioritize this wonder. If I research Alphabet and Literature, and build this wonder with the help of chopping and whipping, 9 out of 10 times I can get it. Then I generally put NE into this city to help generate a few GS used for liberalism race. But it is a big trade off between researching literature, building this wonder and researching construction, building units. On emperor and above, the early expansion war is almost necessary. Catapults and War Elephants are huge help. And a few turns delay may mean the difference between facing longbow or facing archer in enemy's city. I found myself ignore GL more and more in preference for catapult, war elephant and other units.

Both the Pyramid and the Oracle have huge benefits, but it is really difficult to get at the higher level. You have to balance between the expansion and wonder building well.

I dearly miss the Pyramids of old. Anybody remember that?

A FREE GRANARY in every city.

I can't even imagine how amazing that would be in Civ IV even with the lower number of cities that people end up building.

...I think I'm going to go make a mod. :)

Ah, but the Pyramids of OLD old (Civ I) let you switch to any government type...

Full circle, indeed.

I do remember the pyramid from III! I was pretty peeved that they changed it in IV. Now I'm so used to it, I had forgot that!

Would it be worth it to build it now, for the same price for the Civ III traits?

I highly doubt it.

I am looking forward to always building the Hunter-Seeker Algorithm in BtS.

What?

Moved up to monarch recently and I don't go for any wonders right now ... more focused on building troops and capturing holy cities and wonders :)

Hey,

I'm trying this now in my latest game with great results. I'm only playing Noble, but am heading towards my earliest domination win and highest score ever!

Cheers.

Situational:

If I found an early religion then that becomes a big part of my strategy so wonders like the spiral minerat I'll race for.

If my leader doesn't have creative trait or benefits from monuments (charismatic or Egyptian) then I'll race for Stonehenge.

My personal favorite is the pyramids. If I have stone or forest to chop etc. I'll go for it.

"When I come back no more Mr. Nice Guy." Adolf Hitler :goodjob:

World Wonders:

Stonehenge - if not Creative, helps with city placement

Great Wall - if Industrious or have stone or lots of forests to chop; the great spy that ensues ensures that I can stay alive with 0% on spy, so it's sort of like having +11% to research

Pyramids - if Industrious and I really feel like it; or if I have stone

Hanging Gardens - if I have spare capacity, since health is so important later, and the +1 size is great for whipping

Oracle - only if Industrious or marble

Great Library - to help get a Gr Sci for an Academy

Parthenon - only if great engineer, or marble, or I think I can get it first somehow

Colossus and/or Gr Lighthouse - only if I have time

I can't ever seem to get the Mausoleum (sp?), or many of the theologically-oriented wonders of the classical age... it would be nice to have the Statue of Zeus or something, though

Similarly, I'll try for Uni of Sank and Spiral if I can get them, but I'm usually mired in some other major construction project

Taj Mahal - always if I win liberalism and take Nationalism

Statue of Liberty - always

Pentagon - always

Modern happiness (Broadway etc.) - always

Cristo Redentor - if not spiritual

3 Gorges Dam - always