Pre-Game Show (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=232905)
Round 1: 4000 BC to 2440 BC; below
Round 2: 2440 BC to 910 BC; below
Round 3: 910 BC to 40 BC (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=233527&page=2)
Round 4: 40 BC to 445 AD (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=233527&page=2)
Round 5: 445 AD to 875 AD (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=233527&page=2)
Round 6: 875 AD to 1256 AD (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=233527&page=3)
Round 7: 1256 AD to 1418 AD (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=233527&page=3)

The Noble Challenge Game, or NCG, aspires to show a basic game for all the relatively new players to Civilization. For this NCG, I will be playng as Mehmed II, warlords, using the latest patch. The settings are normal, but the land is in the continents style, with the game speed being epic, at the Noble level. Even though for this game I will be writing summaries similar to the ALC, anyone is welcome to take my origional save and play it out. Just make sure to put your remarks in spoilers.
Here are the game settings:

http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb43/hackapell_4/Picture4-5.png

and our starting location:

http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb43/hackapell_4/Picture5-5.png

we have only one strategic resource, so I assume there will be metal or horses hidden nearby. We're starting a little north for my taste, but the capital looks productive enough to not require a capital swap. the three flood plains should be mitigated by the expansive trait, and that trait helps with the construction of workers as well. BW will be our first tech goal, most likely, but then what, should we go with and SE, CE or hybrid? What tech will be most beneficial?
Comments are welcomed, as usual.

I say a hybrid economy. The Cottages provide a supply of revenue that will accelerate research. Jannisaries will be the key to prosperity or mediocrity.

I still suggest that after you get BW and AH, you get Pottery, Writing and on through Mathematics, Currency, CoL, CS, Paper, Education (a Scientist will speed this up) then Gunpowder. You can backfill and get other techs as needed.

You don't have enough trees to chop, I would think. I kind of want to move the capital west one for the hill, but I get a tundra, we can't see what's on the right, and who knows what the build starter has for us.
I would definitely go for mining. Then you could use the expansive bonus for fast workers with the worker-worker-settler build.
2 workers is easier for improving the flood plains.
Bronze working is ok, but animal husbandry is attractive, too. Then again, pottery would be a nice production/research boost, so you could skip animal husbandry for a bit.

Scouting would help. Definitely mining early, though.

Scout before settling.

Settling in place is ok if there is something good in the dark patches.

Tech order:
Mining
Bronzeworking
Animal Husbandry
Pottery

Grow while beelining BW (only work floodplains). Build warriors for scouting while growing. As soon as (or a short time before, actually) you hit BW; switch to worker (but grow if you are only 1-2 turns from increasing size).

Put a few turns into worker, just enough to let you whip the worker for 1 pop. Put turns into a settler with the overflow. Now switch to warrior while city grows back to size 3.

If AH isnt in yet, build a mine on the other grassland hill. Then build the pig pasture. Otherwise pigs first, then mine. Now work pigs/mine while worker farms a floodplain. Then you should be size 3 and working 3 good tiles. You should also have an extra warrior or two.

Now build settler while worker cottages the other floodplain tiles (perhaps one chop could be ok for the settler even though you have few trees).

Do you guys have any idea where to move my warrior(in compass directions please)?

Do you guys have any idea where to move my warrior(in compass directions please)?

SW, but it doesn't matter too much. Doubt you want to move the settler at all with this start.

Just settle in place. It looks pretty good.

Also, if you're gooing to post screenshots, could you at least turn on resources etc. so we can tell what all the squares contain. This is supposed to be to help noobs, right :)

And I agree with SW for the warrior, but that wouldn't change any decison about where to settle.

Cheers.

I moved the warrior 1SW, and look what he found:

http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb43/hackapell_4/Picture7-5.png

There's corn in the BFC, and GOLD in dem dar hills! :cowboy:

even so, it seems unlikely that we need to move our prospective capital. Unless I hear dissent on settling in place, I will probably play the next round tonight.
Thoughts?

I would settle in place

even so, it seems unlikely that we need to move our prospective capital. Unless I hear dissent on settling in place, I will probably play the next round tonight.
Thoughts?

Don't move the capital. The gold will hopefully make a good second city (although there seems to be a lot of desert and peaks there..)

4 flood plain, 1 corn , 1 hill pig. +10 food (11 with civil service), and 2 mines.

Growing early vs worker first:
You get +2 food, +2 hammers (work the pig), 1 commerce if you build a worker due to expansive, so worker in 15 turns.
If you whip, that's 8 turns to grow, 3 turns to 15-18 hammers at size 2, whip.

1 west is more attractive due to the forested plains, but you lose that flood plains 2 southeast. Farm the corn first, then hills, and unless I have no bronze, I'd go pottery after bronze working (for the cheap granary and to not waste worker time).

Round 1: 4000 BC to 2440 BC
I went with the general consensus and settled in place:

http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb43/hackapell_4/Picture1-6.png

Ah, so there was wine in the BFC! That means HR will be useful not just for the :) bonus.

my first hut popped for gold:

http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb43/hackapell_4/Picture2-5.png

and shortly after, we met our only known rival:

http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb43/hackapell_4/Picture3-6.png

UGH! Not you again!

Shortly after that, I picked up a key tech:

http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb43/hackapell_4/Picture5-6.png

and here were the sources of copper

http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb43/hackapell_4/Picture6-5.png

one, near some pigs, gold, and an oasis, and the other near wine, stone and some ivory.
After quite a bit of exploration, I stumbled onto something; we were alone and semi-isolated. That meant that as soon as I finished off peter with an axerush, I would be alone to settle a rather large continent, but I would also be cut off and unable to use my Janissaries as effective weapons or trade. fog-busting will now become critical; we don't want a repeat of ALC 15!
I ended the round with the discovery of pottery:

http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb43/hackapell_4/Picture7-6.png

and now, for the dotmappers among us, the continent was big enough that I cut it into two parts:
The south

http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb43/hackapell_4/Picture8-4.png

and the north:

http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb43/hackapell_4/Picture9-6.png

Peter is approximately 12 squares from our capital, and both coppper and horses are within reach. So now what? Killing Peter is a foregone conclusion, what comes next is the problem. We have many good city sites and acsess to both stone and marble. our tech route may changea bit, as I am thinking of using Liberalism to grab astronomy directly after teching gunpowder, then belining for calvary while I wait for my fleet. that's all in the future though, as what to do next stares at us in the face. Writing semms like a good next target, but a REX followed by axerush of peter and the barbs seems like the plan. Meanwhile, we could focus on grabbing the Glib and making a hybrid economy, with a bureaucratic capital assisting in research.
Thoughts?
P.S. I did whip that settler.

Well, I tried out mehmed in random games. Monarchy is a huge deal for him. His unique building (mathematics) is great, but expansive means that probably your capital will get that big.

A big question is whether you'll need construction or not to take out Peter. Also I had a hard time deciding when to attack as Mehmed, because of his nice builder qualities. Oracle is nice.

The one enemy situation gives you an interesting tech opportunity. You could skip alphabet, since you're not trading with anyone. Currency is a little less useful. If you skip oracle, you can go code of laws through currency, kind of weird, huh. Dye is your only calendar resource, and ivory is your only market happiness resource...

If you can squeeze in the oracle within the axe rush, I'd consider beelining priesthood, grab monarchy, beeline and lightbulb to liberalism (code of law, mathematics, pop philosophy). You don't need any side techs, although pyramids might be nice.

And grabbing the double gold would be excellent.

I will be away on monday for a week, so I will take comments until preferably 19:00 EST tommorow.
on a side note- where should the overflow from the settler go? Into a cheap granary for future whipping possibilities, or something else?

anyone out there? should we continue?

Definitely continue. Keep it coming. You have a great starting site. Double gold/corn city is major also and then grab some copper. Gogogo.

Round 2: 2440 BC to 910 BC
so, a few housekeeping things to do. First, I am please to be the first to point out that I didn't whip the settler. I apoligize.
Second, sorry for the wait. I assumed someone would give me a plan during the two weeks of waiting, so this was my cautious side showing.
Now for the update, It's a long one.

I started off by whipping the settler:

http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb43/hackapell_4/Picture1-7.png

and sent the overflow into a granary, a wise move, since Istanbul is a prime whipping zone. I think a change in capital may be in order here.
I also settled my copper city, after much deliberation:

http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb43/hackapell_4/Picture2-6.png

why here? Sure, it won't grow until I pop it's borders, but it can pay for itself and other cities, has an oasis for more food, and COPPER in a half-decent location, unlike the other two spots near Peter's land. Speaking of peter,I have a feeling that this game may mirror Sisutil's ALC BtS 17; it has the same properties, so it should be interesting.
Then, an odd tidbit showed up:

http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb43/hackapell_4/Picture3-7.png

That's awfully late, isn't it? that could mean a few things: ONe there are no spirital civs, or people are really backwards.
I figured I should get on board with specializing my capital so crack!!!

http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb43/hackapell_4/Picture4-7.png

Overflow went into a settler, who is waiting for orders in the capital. also, I deviated to pick up mysticism and masondry, necessary worker and border pop techs. then I moved onto mathematics to pick up my Hammans.
Peter is proving to be an unwitting ally. He placed his second city on a river with stone, copper and ivory, and then captured the other source:

http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb43/hackapell_4/Picture6-6.png
Thankfully, it looks like he could care less about the copper, as he is happily farming away. he won't know what hit him:ar15: :bump:
and the round ended with the discovery of mathematics:

http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb43/hackapell_4/Picture8-5.png

now for a quick overview of our land:

http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb43/hackapell_4/Picture9-7.png

and peter's:

http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb43/hackapell_4/Picture10-5.png

and the relatively empty southeast:

http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb43/hackapell_4/Picture11-4.png

It needs a little more exploration, so we may not be isolated, just undiscovered...:rolleyes:
otherwise, we need a workable plan for the future. Peter's dead to me, but after the conquest of the russians, what then? I have the old standby Alpha being researched,but what should be our long-term goal? should we look for outsiders(explore and beeline towards caravels), turtle up and go wonder-happy? settle and make a massive empire before going out to explore? or pump up our military? The choices are yours to make.
Here's the save.

Errrr, I strongly disagree with a lot of the moves. First, not going worker first, with an expansive civ. Growing to size 2 is ok if you eventually use him to whip the settler. 2nd, your 2nd city can't grow at all. I would have gone for the spot where Peter's 2nd city is (actually 1 east of it), and I would have planted the gold city so you can use both oases and the corn. You need it to grow as fast as possible to support the 2 corn.
Next, why farm the flood plains before the corn? More food, takes less time, and you can cottage your main. You should definitely have mined a hill and used that to pump worker production (1 food + 4*1.5 production is 7).
I'd debate about animal husbandry so early if you're not yet whipping axemen and not taking the 2nd pig city.
Why build a monument? It's your capital, so there's little need for culture. If you need something to grow your city while building, put it into stonehenge, so you'll get some money back.
There's no reason your main city shouldn't be making workers/settlers if your citizens are about to become unhappy. 2nd city should be making a settler/barracks, depending on what you're going to do (or the monument). And if you have farms, your main city should have scientists.

It's getting close to too late to take peter with axemen. Alphabet's a bad choice with only 1 rival, and if you had been heading to it, you can do it before mathematics (unless you want to build his unique building straight away) and don't have to get animal husbandry.

And without axes, shouldn't barbs have owned you from now? I have to apologize for being so critical, but I've been trying out some monarch mehmed games, and I've had to plan very carefully.

I agree with Vica. I would have used the double gold/corn city (1SW of the corn has also a double oasis) to boost your research. Your capital has enough food already so some sharing is definitely not bad. Then start a third settler immediately instead of a monument and grab the copper (1S of the copper). But hey, it is your game and I am very curious how this works out. Peter is expanding like mad but he has a high maintenance already because of the distances.

Errrr, I strongly disagree with a lot of the moves. First, not going worker first, with an expansive civ.
I did go granary first, so at least I did get in a cheap building.

Growing to size 2 is ok if you eventually use him to whip the settler. 2nd, your 2nd city can't grow at all. I would have gone for the spot where Peter's 2nd city is (actually 1 east of it), and I would have planted the gold city so you can use both oases and the corn. You need it to grow as fast as possible to support the 2 corn.
The city can't grow...yet. I will plan to use the oasis, windmills, and farms on the two forest sqares to feed a production rich city. Also, I already have 2 workers, and will pick up a third in preparation for another city. Unfortunately, I couldn't place a city to grab both oaisises and the corn, so I decided that I would give up some food early on to get raw commmerce. It was not an easy decision, I'll tell you that.

Next, why farm the flood plains before the corn? More food, takes less time, and you can cottage your main. You should definitely have mined a hill and used that to pump worker production (1 food + 4*1.5 production is 7).
Yes, that's my mistake. Thanks for that and some advice with tile improvments.

I'd debate about animal husbandry so early if you're not yet whipping axemen and not taking the 2nd pig city.
Frob came up with a plan involving animal husbandry that sounded good, so I went in that direction. I'm still hooking up copper, but peter doesn't even have copper in his borders.

Why build a monument? It's your capital, so there's little need for culture. If you need something to grow your city while building, put it into stonehenge, so you'll get some money back.
Good idea.

There's no reason your main city shouldn't be making workers/settlers if your citizens are about to become unhappy. 2nd city should be making a settler/barracks, depending on what you're going to do (or the monument). And if you have farms, your main city should have scientists.
Yes, REX will be important this round; I have found several good spots to settle, so that should be easy. for example, 1S of the last gold mine picks up Corn and Ivory, 1E of the eastermost Ivory in a l-shape picks up more gold, pigs, corn and Ivory, 1N of the southernost dyes pickes up spices and dyes, 1W of the marble for spices and corn, and the small fishing village where my warrio is standing that would also cntest the northern copper. and my Capital is running scientists.

It's getting close to too late to take peter with axemen. Alphabet's a bad choice with only 1 rival, and if you had been heading to it, you can do it before mathematics (unless you want to build his unique building straight away) and don't have to get animal husbandry.

And without axes, shouldn't barbs have owned you from now?
Peter still hasn't grabbed copper, so I think that while the window of opportunity is closing, there is still a potential that if I grab construction, I can have a cat-axe stack destroy peter. Also, I've gotten into the habit of researching maths before alpha so the AI has some useful backfill I can trade with.

I have to apologize for being so critical, but I've been trying out some monarch mehmed games, and I've had to plan very carefully.
It's fine. Comments are welcomed. Just remember that this is noble and this is also my standard playing level, meaning this is the highest level I play on.

Frob came up with a plan involving animal husbandry that sounded good, so I went in that direction. I'm still hooking up copper, but peter doesn't even have copper in his borders.

Getting animal husbandry is never a bad idea when you have pigs in your capital. Often it also nets you chariots. However after you went down that road, obviously it would have been good to get the second pigs inside your second city. That's what I would have done.

I would have put the second at spices+copper+pigs, and the third (which I definitely would have had out by 1000 BC) would probably have nabbed oasis+copper+gold.

A granary in the capital is something I almost never do until I have a worker and a second city built. Pottery in this case would have been good for early floodplain cottages rather than an early granary.

Still, get some cities down ASAP. Get some axes and rush the AI. Then cottage spam and run some scientists, because your priority is janissaries. Get them while the AI is at longbows and you'll be strong (also, this is easy at Noble). If you manage to go Liberalism->Nationhood also, then you've won (or at least taken your continent).

[EDIT] I also see pigs to the southeast. You should also get them ASAP.

Also, as far as expansion goes: Three cities by 1000BC, four by 500BC, 6 by 1AD, 8 by 500AD and 10 by 1000AD is a good rule of thumb.

I've played the next round, will update tommorow...

Round 3: 910 BC to 40 BC
It took a while to update, I know, but I was having just one more turn syndrome with Shaka and his Impi :D
I started the round with a tech change:

http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb43/hackapell_4/Picture12-5.png

I figured that since I was planning an axe-rush, you might as weel sprinkle in some cats and elephants to add more power.
Then I started to REX in the places I had mentioned:

http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb43/hackapell_4/Picture13-4.png

http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb43/hackapell_4/Picture14-3.png

Both good spots that will have food and valuable resources.
the war preparations were going smoothly, and my workers were hard at work creating road and improving the land, but suddenly, Peter got too greedy for his own good:

http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb43/hackapell_4/Picture15-3.png

that was a small problem, but that just gave me a good excuse to attack, so I waited and reinforced my army.
Meanwhie I grabbed Alpha courtesy of a GS, since I had little idea which city will be my SSC:

http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb43/hackapell_4/Picture17-3.png

and then I traded with Peter to grab:

http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb43/hackapell_4/Picture18-4.png

http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb43/hackapell_4/Picture19-4.png
and where was the iron? One source near the marble, and one right in Peter's territory:

http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb43/hackapell_4/Picture20-3.png

Ah well. So much for not having any metal.
Next, I learned that I was rather large for a nation:

http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb43/hackapell_4/Picture21-2.png

A turn later, I saw an archer make a move towards the leech on my turf:

http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb43/hackapell_4/Picture22-2.png

you do understand, peter, that this means war?

http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb43/hackapell_4/Picture23-3.png

I didn't think so.
I rushed through the tiny little border cities and captured my two main objectives, St. Petersburg and Novgorod. I also found time to settle probably my last city for a while:

http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb43/hackapell_4/Picture24-2.png

and the round ended with the discovery of currency:

http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb43/hackapell_4/Picture25-1.png

Now, at the end of the round, I went to see what Peter would offer for his country, but clearly, it wasn't his humor;

http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb43/hackapell_4/Picture26-3.png

I love it when the game designers put something like that in the game. It adds flavor.
But seriously, here's what he'll offer:

http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb43/hackapell_4/Picture27-3.png
Should I take it? My economy is about to crash and burn, but I have a 6-man stack waiting outside of Moscow. Should I attack first and then sue for peace? Or take the gold and tech and let him suffer with an outlandish city that will be a financial drain?

The state of the world to come, with more questions and thoughts.

I'd say yes. It sounds like Moscow is a keeper, but you need time to build Courthouses and Markets to salvage your economy. You can always finish him later...

A small question: Why are you still running at 100% research -- losing 26g a turn? My gut instinct (granted, I'm still new at BtS) is to turn down the slider to a break even point, small gain -- or worst comes to worse, a small/manageable bleed that you'll be able to staunch with courthouses and $$ buildings.

As for war, I'd say take Moscow and then see what Peter has to offer -- you'll gain some gold from capturing the city as well. Settle peace after that (he'll only have two relatively weak cities left), patch up your economy and then finish him off when your economy can deal with his remaining cities.

Thanks for posting these games -- it's informative and educational :)

A small question: Why are you still running at 100% research -- losing 26g a turn? My gut instinct (granted, I'm still new at BtS) is to turn down the slider to a break even point, small gain -- or worst comes to worse, a small/manageable bleed that you'll be able to staunch with courthouses and $$ buildings.

Hackapell isn't playing BtS, he's playing Warlords 2.08.

A small question: Why are you still running at 100% research -- losing 26g a turn? My gut instinct (granted, I'm still new at BtS) is to turn down the slider to a break even point, small gain -- or worst comes to worse, a small/manageable bleed that you'll be able to staunch with courthouses and $$ buildings.
Yes, I am not playing with BtS; I'm working with a mac :)
Therefore, I have nothing to lose by losing all my gold; it just shaves off turns
from expensive techs so I don't have to wait forever for more tech while I repair my economy

Thanks for posting these games -- it's informative and educational :)

thank you! :thanx:

State of the Continent: Round 3- Round 4
First, a look at our territory on the continent:

http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb43/hackapell_4/Picture1-8.png

well, our empire doubled in size, but that's dragging down our economy. Also WW is taking a toll, so I suspect that the next few round will be economically-focused.
Peter's territory:

http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb43/hackapell_4/Picture2-7.png

very small, and he has a far flung city near my area which will drain him, so he's a non-factor at this point.
The Domestic Advisor:

http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb43/hackapell_4/Picture3-8.png

some libraries and some units, but I'll probably move towards more civilian build to prop up my economy.
Military advisor:

http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb43/hackapell_4/Picture4-8.png

Our First GG is 8 XP's away, but I'm not sure if we'll get it in this war. If we do, what should we do with it? I haven't specialized my cities to any degree yet, and a medic 3 chariot would go unused. that's something to consider for later.
the tech tree to it's farthest point:

http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb43/hackapell_4/Picture5-8.png

I'm thinking of doing just a little backfill, grabbing sailing and poly, then heading towards lit. that will give my economy time to recover and replenish.
The power graph:

http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb43/hackapell_4/Picture6-7.png

War is good for the graph :ar15:
and finally the demographics:

http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb43/hackapell_4/Picture7-8.png

We've got plenty of food and pop. so we should grow like crazy soon.
Comments are appreciated.

Hackapell isn't playing BtS, he's playing Warlords 2.08.

Ah, I didn't play very much Warlords -- what changed in BtS that made it bad to lose $$ whereas it wasn't that bad in Warlords?

[W]hat changed in BtS that made it bad to lose $$ whereas it wasn't that bad in Warlords?
The introduction of random events, mostly, just to deal with early-game calamities and other events.
In warlords though, there's no reason to max out the slider when beelining a tech; at this point I would have to drop my reaseach by at least half in order to reach parity.

I'm playing the next round; will update tonight...

Round 4: 40 BC to 445 AD
Lots of fun building and teching; a few suprises too.
I started with laying out a tech path:

http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb43/hackapell_4/Picture8-6.png
CS is a good overall goal; Bureaucracy is very important and useful; and macemen are your go-to units of the medival era.I made a qiuck deviation to claim lit for the Glib and to open up the path to monarchy.
Next, Moscow fell:

http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb43/hackapell_4/Picture10-6.png

and I sued for peace:

http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb43/hackapell_4/Picture11-5.png

money and tech; niiiiice.
Also, all that fighting gave me my first GG:

http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb43/hackapell_4/Picture9-8.png

I have't used him yet, since I'm unsure which city will be my HE city. Maybe Edrine? Something to think about.

after a while of scouting and building markets and courthouses; I saw some oddly-colored land. Guess who squatting on our land:

http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb43/hackapell_4/Picture12-6.png

Great, a tech whore. This is going to be fun.

http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb43/hackapell_4/Picture13-5.png

http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb43/hackapell_4/Picture14-4.png

http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb43/hackapell_4/Picture15-4.png

http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb43/hackapell_4/Picture16-4.png
Did I mention I love this guy?
The round ended with the discovery of monarchy:

http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb43/hackapell_4/Picture17-4.png

notice that I managed to push up my tech rate to about 40 %; not great, but good. More building will be necessary.
Things to think about:
Diplomacy: with MM and peter, both will be able to trade with me, but what will happen when I kill Peter? will MM stop trading with me? and where is he?????? should I sail around to find more of his buddies?
Economy: ther a small Barb city which I've surrounded, when should I take that? and when should I move against peter? around Janissaries?
This game is shawdoing The ALC 17 game eerielly; a nice size continent with one enemy and close trading partners. This should be very interesting.
Here's the save. Comment are welcomed.

Looks interesting thus far! A tiny note: Machinery is needed to actually make Macemen... or at least it is in BtS. Not sure about Warlords :P

I beleive ManMu's definition as a tech whore comes from his nature to tech trade between him and the player when no other civ is known.

Chances are, he has met someone.

If by any chance he does refuse to trade (when (not IF) you wipe Peter off the map, just divert to Optics after Civil Service and sent out three or four caravel in different directions.

A question (or three) before the next round;
1. I just realized that I have enough manpower to conquer Peter RIGHT NOW if I chose to. Should I? and if so, Which cities should I keep?
2. The Glib; Which city? Since we have marble, it could be any city. Moscow has great food potential and the hammers to get it done within the round, but I can't see the max food for all the cities. Any idea which city I should make my GP farm?
3. Walata, is it a threat? should I try to flip it? if so, sould I keep it? and what to do I MM sees fit to plop down morew cities on my east coast?
thoughts?

Round 5: 455 AD to 875 AD
Well, with no responses, I went ahead and answered my own questions :D
I started with some MM, and then, someone needed to be dealt with... :trouble:

http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb43/hackapell_4/Picture1-9.png

DIE PETER, DIE!
It was a short and splendid litle war:

http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb43/hackapell_4/Picture2-8.png

http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb43/hackapell_4/Picture4-9.png

And thus was Sisiutil avenged for having lost to the Russian bear.
I experience a great leap in economic prowess, so Bactrician was all mine:

http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb43/hackapell_4/Picture6-8.png

It's a good city, and not just in terms of placement.
I stopped by to check in with Mansa, whom I heard from a writer was the most advanced civ.
That guy was right:

http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb43/hackapell_4/Picture7-9.png

Unsuprisingly, MM is ahead, but not for long, thanks to this in Moscow!

http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb43/hackapell_4/Picture8-7.png

:goodjob:
then, I noticed something across the channel:

http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb43/hackapell_4/Picture9-9.png

There he is! I promptly whipped a trireme and sent him that way. hopefully he'll find someone.
an event ensured that MM and I would be BFF:

http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb43/hackapell_4/Picture10-7.png

Go religion! That will increase my happy cap to astronomical levels and MM will be very pleased with me for a long time.
The round ended with the discovery of CS:

http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb43/hackapell_4/Picture11-6.png

for my tech, MM is willing to do this trade:

http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb43/hackapell_4/Picture12-7.png

State of the continent coming shortly.

Can you see if MM will trade HBR and Music for CS? Monotheism is a cheap tech that you can research it quickly yourself-unless you want a quick spam of Confucian missionaries now.

nbcman

I have another point here...
Why would you want Music? CS is a powerful tech to give to MM for no game-breaking advantage. The other two are too cheap for trading... If it was Machinery... :mischief:

The State of the Continent: Round 5-Round 6
First, a three-part look at our continent:

http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb43/hackapell_4/Picture9-10.png
http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb43/hackapell_4/Picture10-8.png
http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb43/hackapell_4/Picture11-7.png

Domestic advisor:
http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb43/hackapell_4/Picture1-10.png

A mix of civilian and military builds; mostly in prep for Janissaries.
On the diplomatic front, an update on trades:

http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb43/hackapell_4/Picture2-9.png

A pretty good deal, but should I get rid of Mono for gold?
military advisor:

http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb43/hackapell_4/Picture3-9.png


a bit of a ways from our next GG, but the again, we need to do something with our first! should we settle him in Edrine, our best production city, or wait a bit longer and see what happens?
Tech screen:
http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb43/hackapell_4/Picture4-10.png
I was thinking of beelining Engineering, then going Feudalism guilds and banking to pick up Gunpowder while our GS's bulb Philo, Paper, and Edu to grab lib and Nationalism.
Victory Conditions:

http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb43/hackapell_4/Picture5-9.png

We're moving towards dom, but space race is always a possibility when semi-isolated. note that we have not settled the whole island.
Score:

http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb43/hackapell_4/Picture6-9.png

Power:

http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb43/hackapell_4/Picture7-10.png

MM's right up there with me, but I think I'm slightly ahead due to readiness for offensive war.

and Demos:

http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb43/hackapell_4/Picture8-8.png

2nd in a lot, which is not bad at all, seeing as the leader is only slightly behind at this point.
Our plan for the next round will probably be teching to Janissaries, but we could always try something different.
I await your comments. Here's the save.

While you're all talking strategy ;) I've played the next round, and will post tommorow
(There; I've said it. Now I'm commited;))

Definitely not for horses, since you don't have any horses. Organized religion might not be so bad if you get religion in the right places. But I'd hang on to civil service until he's close to it or if he can trade for it from someone else. Research paper, as it's cheap and not worth a full great scientist.

Since you're organized, I'd focus on city management, figuring out what city fills what role, and even expand a little more to fill up your island. Bigger, more developed empire means you win in the end.

Round 6: 890 AD to 1256 AD
Wow, Vicawoo, I think I hit all the things you asked for.
I started by trading:

http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb43/hackapell_4/Picture1-11.png

perhaps not the greatest trade, but Mansa cut off quite a few turns on the proposed beeline, so I didn't feel too bad. at the end of the round, he still didn't have machinery, so no macemen for you!
I noticed the barbs had settled intelligently on the southern coast, but my matinence was still to high for me to keep it, so my axes had a field day:

http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb43/hackapell_4/Picture2-10.png

Maybe I'll upgrade them to macemen so I can have some escort with my Janissaries, 'phants and Trebs.
I continued he specialization of my cities. Novgorod became the HE city:

http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb43/hackapell_4/Picture3-10.png

and therefore, my GG had one place to go:

http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb43/hackapell_4/Picture6-10.png

He's now a military instructor, so level 3 units out of the gate in Novgorod.
Meanwhile, a GS sprung from Istanbul and bulbed Philo:

http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb43/hackapell_4/Picture4-11.png

and taoism was founded in Edirne:

http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb43/hackapell_4/Picture5-10.png

Therefore, I began spreading both Taoism and Confucisanism throughout my my Empire. I'm not sure which religion will become my state religion, or whether it will matter. It's a good source of happiness, so no complaints here!

My next GS bulbed Paper, since I was focused on the beeline.

http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb43/hackapell_4/Picture7-11.png

Having bought Mansa's map for 80 gold; I can now give you the core of Mali.

http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb43/hackapell_4/Picture9-11.png

Note that there is one city just below Kumbi Saleh, Tekkada.
With my economy roaring back, I settled a small fishing village and the old barb city I razed at the beginning of the round:

http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb43/hackapell_4/Picture12-8.png

http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb43/hackapell_4/Picture14-5.png

I finished the beeline to Engineering:

http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb43/hackapell_4/Picture13-6.png

And traded Philo to Mansa for Feudalism and 40 gold, just for a leg up on gunpowder.
The round ended with the discovery of Guilds.

http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb43/hackapell_4/Picture15-5.png

now, normally, I would've continued towards Banking, like I planned. But something caught my eye:

http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb43/hackapell_4/Picture16-5.png

Gunpowder's available. I switched research to that, but I have a GS next turn. Should I tech throught Edu to make gunpowder cheaper? Another thing to think about is how to ferry over our troops. We don't have compass ( Mansa had it the whole time and even on friendly wouldn't gift it to me)
and don't you need Optics to get Astronomy? I see that we could beeline Astronomy after Edu, pick up Nationalism, DoW on Mansa, and take Demo as our free tech from Lib.
Of course the choices are up to you. Here's the save.

knock, knock.

You need constitution and printing press for democracy. Printing press, you can get 2/3 of it with a GS.
I'd be a little worried about everyone else. How close are you to domination? Conquest might be really hard if they're on other continents.
Do you need astronomy (do you have to cross oceans)? You can draft jannissaries and upgrade your axemen to grenadiers while building fleets if you want to take out mansa musa. You went engineering, so you're pretty much going for chemistry as it is.

I actually need astronomy for two reasons. First, to explore and prepare to conquer the other continent. Second, to build the galleon fleet I need in order to conquer Mansa efficiently. So I have a plan. I will build galleys for now, then, when I hit Astro, I will upgrade and save up to upgrade all my axemen to grenadiers. After the conquest of Mansa, I will already have a fleet that I can use to transport my army to the other continent. another thing I thought about was the fact that the AI on the other continent may be ahead, seeing as they're trading among themselves. Therefore, I've decided that democracy as our free tech is too optomistic, and I will aim for constitution and Rep. then, I will grab Grens, frigates, and cav, and attack until I have enough land for dom.

I've played the next round, will update soon

Round 7: 1256 AD to 1418 AD
A very rare event happened this round, mostly because I let it. I apoligize for any :smoke: moves I might have made. I'm learning here too, so bear with me.
I changed my tech path to Education:

http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb43/hackapell_4/Picture17-5.png

and peformed this trade with MM:

http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb43/hackapell_4/Picture18-5.png

a little idiotic , but I needed to get a leg up on astronomy. Plus, He was going to die anyway, it was a matter of time.
I lightbulbed Edu to shave off 17 turns:

http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb43/hackapell_4/Picture19-5.png

and finished that, continuing towards optics for contacts and trade.

I made a civics swap in order to expand my infrastructure and take advantage of organized's half-priced civics:

http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb43/hackapell_4/Picture20-4.png

I don't need pacifism now. It was costing me too much thanks to my military build-up.
Mansa, however, was busy settling land and making me angry.

http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb43/hackapell_4/Picture22-3.png

Also, around this time, Islam was founded. I panicked, figuring that the other continent was way ahead, and that I would need land NOW to catch up.at that point, I should have stopped and taken a breath, but I forged on, making in retrospect, sloppy moves.
Therefore, it's been nice knowing you, Mansa, but party's over.

http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb43/hackapell_4/Picture23-4.png

I razed all the squattters except Walata, which was a good port city.
I also met the neighbors and gained the circumnavigation bonus:

http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb43/hackapell_4/Picture24-3.png
Wang I haven't met before in my games, but I already hate him more than Mansa. He has Tech parity with me and is protective, so dislodging him will be a pain.

http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb43/hackapell_4/Picture25-2.png

Gandhi, eh? Cool.

http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb43/hackapell_4/Picture26-4.png

Qin was the one who discovered Islam, and also has most of the wonders

http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb43/hackapell_4/Picture27-4.png

Ugh, Chronic backstabber. You're first once I get calvary and Jans.
And no, my mother was not a hamster, and my father did not smell of elderberries.
As an aside, everyone else on the other continent is at about the same point; they don't have paper, philo, or optics.

I grabbed Lib, but at a steep price

http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb43/hackapell_4/Picture28-3.png

yes, Bactrian was razed. I neglected to upgrade my defenders in time, so I lost it. Hoever, It did lower my maitinece, so my economy got a break.
My plan now is simple: Tech Demo and chem, build Grens, Jans, and Cavs. Finish the conversion to CE, consolidate the conquered lands, and destroy someone else, all to be done at the same time.
Thoughts?
I wil also be out until the 2nd, and will try to finish the game by the weekened, so keep that in mind.
Here's the save.

Wiping out some outlier cities isn't going to hurt mansa musa much (might even help him). You needed some foothold on his continent, and perhaps some naval superiority.

Divine right isn't that high tech and not a priority for humans (except for trade value), but computers tend to prioritize it. It's pretty ambitious to launch an invasion on the other continent if you haven't taken out mansa first. You can't reinforce, there's a good chance they'll have decent defense (at least cav/janissary level) by the time you attack or at worst have taken 3-4 cities, and they might dogpile you.

Have returned from a vacation, will update soon...