Great fun, but .....

I feel that the module is too short and that there is a little bit of a mismatch with pace of technology and improvements. There needs to be a lot more techs between building a shipyard and your first battleship, because it is the most powerful unit in the game. Not to mention the fact that once you reach this juncture, there isn't anywhere else to go other than a more powerful battleship. The problem is that victory is accomplished so soon after the achievement that the unit is more for bragging rights, than anything else.

Another feature that I feel is lacking, is the ability to determine which star system would be more advantageous to colonize. Giving a scout ship the ability to obtain vital information about a star system, such as hammer, health, happiness, and food potential should be one of the top priorities for future updates. Also, there needs be a management screen for each planet, rather than just one for the entire system.

The value system just doesn't work the way it is supposed to. All of the Value technologies are obtained by different civilizations at nearly the same time, which puts everyone at odds with each other. Consequently, there is never enough time to spread your values to rival star systems, which makes them pointless, unless the creator intended for everyone to be at war with each other. I believe, "Value" technologies need to be spaced out more in order to prevent universal conflict. Besides, if the player wanted "always war" they could just check that in the setup window.

In addition to the above, I feel that the Pirate Civilization is just an annoyance in the late game. All they ever send is destroyers and planetary defense ships, which to me is just like swatting flies. I feel that if the creator beefed them up a bit, the game would become much more challenging and rewarding in the late stage. Let them send battleships and carriers loaded up with fighter and bomber squadrons along with the destroyers! I feel it is a necessity, because the other civilizations are never able to send a real army, because the game is already won, before that happens. The victory conditions are met way too early to allow any kind of real military conflict, which is disappointing.

Another feature that I think would help the module, is creating a greater variety of weapons for your military ships, like missiles and plasma weapons for example. Of course, adding new animations for each weapon type would be required.

The trading game needs to be more than just swapping technologies with rival civilizations. I think some sort of Galactic Exchange would be a neat feature to include in the module. Civilizations could use freight ships to haul valuable resources to the exchange and sell them for a boost in economy. Allowing civilizations to purchase resources for a steep price would add a new element to the module that would allow everyone to compete on a new level. Civilizations that are caught in a sector of space that is resource poor, could still offer serious competition. With a Galactic Exchange feature, the trading game could open up a whole new element of play. Escort ships would need to be sent along each trade route in order to protect the investment, because pirates and rival civilizations would try to interrupt that part of your commerce.

There needs to be some sort of write-up on how to get things going for the newbie. A tutorial that walks the player through the crucial initial techs that are required to develop and sustain a viable economy, military, and espionage network would be a great help. I had to figure everything out on my own, which was a lot of fun, but not everyone will want to do that. Maybe someone could start a "Final Frontier Game" thread that includes screenshots, explanations, and strategy discussions. I, for one, would be interested in the information!

It is true that the module needs some work, but it is still a great deal of fun. In one session, I was the most powerful civ in the late game and I was building up a massive force to go for a conquest victory when I noticed they were all working on a doomsday weapon! I thought ok, they are going to nuke me, so I switched to researching and building the United Planets thinking that my friendly relations with other civs and my enormous population would seal a victory or at least allow me to pass a non-proliferation resolution. Not so! They all voted for the most competitive AI civ and he won the vote by a small margin! Ugghh, not good! So, I ended up having to go for the Ascension victory, while they were all building nukes. In the end, my superior production won the day, but it was an exciting finale to be sure. I am surprised, however, that they never called for a diplomatic victory resolution to be voted on. Strange!

In another game, I experimented with the world builder and put a resource rich asteroid field near my capital to see what would happen. I then built 8 Construction Ships and just let them go to work on their own and they went nuts! They covered my territory with an intricate web of warp/jump lanes that made it incredibly fast to traverse the vastness of space between my star systems. What I thought was hilarious, was in the late game a Pirate Ship would destroy part of the transportation network and after I blasted it out of the sky, all 8 workers would rush to fix the network! They charged into action with a battlecry, "Must be preteeey!" It was so funny!


Here's a Screenshot (http://s94.photobucket.com/albums/l112/Hamarabi2006/?action=view&current=Final_Frontier.jpg).

Anyway, I really enjoyed this module and it has a huge potential to be one of the best ever made for Civ4. If you haven't got around to trying it yet, you simply must check it out. It takes a while to develop a good strategy, because you have to learn a new way of doing things, but that's half the fun. Cheers!

***Begin Edit***
In the "World Builder", there are a great deal of icons and terrain options that should not be available in a space themed mod and some do not even work when they should.

Currently, there is no compelling reason to ally with anyone, but if the Pirates were truly a menace to be feared and respected, I feel diplomacy would become a greater factor in game-play. I think that if the tech tree was expanded upon, more units, buildings, and wonders were added, the AI was given an overhaul, and the Pirates were given more powerful ships, the module would be a smash hit.
***End Edit***

I'm still playing my first game of Final Frontier, but I agree with many of your assessments. One thing I was disappointed on was the lack of wonders. There are only one or two, if I recall correctly. Still, maybe this mod can serve as a solid foundation for a fan created mod or scenario that expands and improves on it.

They should have put Final Frontier into the epic game. The space map would have been our Solar System which would slowly open up to you with the discovery of satellites. Then there will be a new race of exploration, colonization and mining in the solar system before the actual Alpha Centauri spaceship is launched. A wasted opportunity... :(

They should have put Final Frontier into the epic game. The space map would have been our Solar System which would slowly open up to you with the discovery of satellites. Then there will be a new race of exploration, colonization and mining in the solar system before the actual Alpha Centauri spaceship is launched. A wasted opportunity... :(

I don't really care but a lot of the fans would have been pissed if Final Frontier was added to the end. A lot of people think of this game as a history simulator and Final Frontier is just too sci-fi for them. It wouldn't have worked. People can't even get over the fact that Hitler will never be a leader in any WW2 scenario created by Firaxis.

NextWar would have been the natural progression of things but I remember people complaining about those mechs when they showed up in the first screenshots: "Oh that better not be in the epic game! That's so dumb."

Lots of good points.I think this scenario could be amazing if they keep working at it.

I'm still playing my first game of Final Frontier, but I agree with many of your assessments. One thing I was disappointed on was the lack of wonders. There are only one or two, if I recall correctly. Still, maybe this mod can serve as a solid foundation for a fan created mod or scenario that expands and improves on it.
I agree. Now that I think about it, I only remember the United Planets and a temple of some sort. The Astral Gates could be considered a wonder, but they are only used for an Ascension Victory, so they don't count.

I think it would be awesome if mod-creators would finish and expand "Final Frontier" to be a more complete experience. I had a great time playing the way it is now, so I can only imagine how cool it would be after it has been given proper attention.


They should have put Final Frontier into the epic game. The space map would have been our Solar System which would slowly open up to you with the discovery of satellites. Then there will be a new race of exploration, colonization and mining in the solar system before the actual Alpha Centauri spaceship is launched. A wasted opportunity... :(
This is a neat idea, as long as the planet you just left, namely Earth, is forgotten or lost, as per the Final Frontier's theme. Or maybe Earth should be made into a non-competitive civilization to be used as a Galactic Exchange.


I don't really care but a lot of the fans would have been pissed if Final Frontier was added to the end. A lot of people think of this game as a history simulator and Final Frontier is just too sci-fi for them. It wouldn't have worked. People can't even get over the fact that Hitler will never be a leader in any WW2 scenario created by Firaxis.

NextWar would have been the natural progression of things but I remember people complaining about those mechs when they showed up in the first screenshots: "Oh that better not be in the epic game! That's so dumb."
I do not believe space travel is that far off from reality. The reason we do not explore the solar system now, is because the Earth's population does not support the effort. They all have more important things to worry about and do not want to spend the huge amount of resources the project would require.

Here's an excerpt from a research project (http://download-warehouse.org/index.php?pr=ResearchProject) that I worked on a few months ago. The study was inspired by the game "Spore".
Arthur C. Clarke wrote: "Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic."

Before 1903, very few people believed that man would ever fly, but 66 years later, we walked on the moon. This event would seem like magic to anyone living before or during the turn of that century.

First there was "Newton's Law of Gravity", which was proven wrong by Einstein with his "General Theory of Relativity". Gravity is not a force, but rather the consequence of a warped space-time dimension. It is only a matter of time before someone proves that the speed of light is no longer a barrier to interstellar travel, a loop hole if you will. In fact, there have been some amazing breakthrough developments in recent history, with regard to that topic.

Maybe an option could be provided, so that the player could choose whether they wanted to continue on with the "Final Frontier" mod, after the end of a regular civilization game, so as to not ruffle anyone's sensibility.


Lots of good points.I think this scenario could be amazing if they keep working at it.
I agree, completely. I hope the creator does not abandon this module, because it has such a huge potential.

The module really needs some work, but the tileset and solar systems give a very good foundation to new mods based on it. Decent low-poly spaceships aren't that hard to model and with all the resources available withing the modding community we should see an amazing 4X game soon.

Well the scenario isn't perfect, but then no body's perfect.

To sum my impression up in one sentence:

IT ROCKS! Thank you, Firaxis! :goodjob:

I think another thread asked for Final Frontier to be added to the end of the epic game, it was deemed not possible, basically due to the fact that FF is a huge modification to the standard game, it is another game in itself.

Somehow you'd have to tie what you've done in the epic game into what happens in FF, the possibilities are endless and you'd probalby end up with a mod that was very complicated.

Even call to power attempted to give some spacial options, but they were still planet-bound in truth.

From what I hear Spore is goign to change that, but again the suggestions are that each "Era" in Spore has no or little relation to the previous Era (probably to cut down on the programmers having to cope with every possible result of that previous Era)

I reckon the epic and the FF mod are never going to be joined, although I agree it would be an interesting possibility.

Hamarabi do you mind if I ask what settings you played with? The first game I played the star systems were very spread out. Did you play with some non-default options?

Thanks

Would someone please post a few guides for playing final frontier. It would help me get started as I am totally lost right now.

stwils

Hamarabi do you mind if I ask what settings you played with? The first game I played the star systems were very spread out. Did you play with some non-default options?

Thanks

First, the screenshot was zoomed out all the way and that might have something to do with it, but to answer your question, I went with a single player custom game on warlord difficulty and a large map on epic speed, then only allowed 8 civilizations instead of 9. I didn't want to see a duplicate civlization and since there are only 8 available, changing the default number for that map size was necessary. Everything else was left at the default setting. I played through several times before I got this map, more often than not I was surrounded by Radiation Clouds, Black Holes and Supernovas, so I guess I just got lucky.

You could speed up the luck factor by taking a peak with the world builder and then regenerating the map if you had to.




Would someone please post a few guides for playing final frontier. It would help me get started as I am totally lost right now.

stwils

I have a check-up doctor appointment in about an hour, so I don't have time right now, but I could try to post something half-way presentable later today. I can't promise anything, but I will certainly try. Also, I do not claim to know everything or even close. There are certain features that I still do not understand.

The module really needs some work, but the tileset and solar systems give a very good foundation to new mods based on it. Decent low-poly spaceships aren't that hard to model and with all the resources available withing the modding community we should see an amazing 4X game soon.

I think you are right. This mod does offer the ground work needed for the community to create some great off-shoots.

Well the scenario isn't perfect, but then no body's perfect.

To sum my impression up in one sentence:

IT ROCKS! Thank you, Firaxis! :goodjob:

You said it! I agree!

From what I hear Spore is goign to change that, but again the suggestions are that each "Era" in Spore has no or little relation to the previous Era (probably to cut down on the programmers having to cope with every possible result of that previous Era)

Spore is going to be a great game and I can't wait!

I have a check-up doctor appointment in about an hour, so I don't have time right now, but I could try to post something half-way presentable later today. I can't promise anything, but I will certainly try. Also, I do not claim to know everything or even close. There are certain features that I still do not understand.




!

Hamarabi, that would be wonderful. I'd appreciate any help you can give me.

I am using the Demo for final frontier. I have ordered BTS from Amazon and should have it next week.

Thanks.
stwils

Hamarabi, that would be wonderful. I'd appreciate any help you can give me.

I am using the Demo for final frontier. I have ordered BTS from Amazon and should have it next week.

Thanks.
stwils
I am working on it now, but it will take a few hours. I want to provide some screenshots with explanations for the most important methods and choices that I take in a new game. I am no where near as good as aelf, Sisiutil, or some of the other guys that do this sort of thing, but I'll do the best I can.

Thank you.

stwils

Thank you.

stwils
Well, I have about four thousand words and 13 screenshots, so far. This is a lot bigger project than I thought it was going to be. :lol:

Can you believe that aelf, Sisiutil and some others do this on a regular basis? :eek: I have to hand it to those guys, that's for sure!

Anyway, I need to knock off for the night, but I'll work on this tomorrow and should be able to get something posted for your perusal by then.

Cheers!

My only problem with it is that on my computer the turns take way too long very early into the game. I don't know why, but I bet I'd enjoy it once I upgraded my computer.

My only problem with it is that on my computer the turns take way too long very early into the game. I don't know why, but I bet I'd enjoy it once I upgraded my computer.
What are the specs of your system?

I have an AMD X2 3600+ Brisbane, 2GB RAM, and a 256MB Geforce 7600GT video card and the turns take about 10 seconds or so on my system with larger maps. I think that's excruciatingly slow, to be honest, but I am not going to upgrade my computer for a few seconds. hehe

why play Final Frontier when I could be playing Galciv 2 DA ? Imho civ4 is much better than DA but when it comes to space...

Hamarabi, you're welcome to use this information. You've probably already found all these things anyway.

Planet Yields

Whether a planet has rings or a moon has no effect on its output. The colour of the star also has no effect.

All up there are seven different types of planets. Here are their respective outputs.

http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/80491/Planet_yields.PNG

White 2f 0h 3c
Grey 0f 3h 3c
Dark Yellow 2f 2h 1c
Blue 0f 2h 5c
Earth 3f 1h 2c
Orange 1f 2h 3c
Light Yellow 1f 1h 6c

Note the White, Dark Yellow and Earth planets will always have a visible atmosphere around them.

The planet with the highest base food output for a star system and which is inside the 1-radius gets a +1:hammers: and +1:food: in addition to its normal output. This will be the planet that is worked first by default when the star system is colonised. Note that if a colony is created using worldbuilder this bonus does not get applied.

Planet size determines the population capacity of the planet. You should be able to tell by just looking at the planet. Capacity ranges from 1 to 3.

double post sorry

Hamarabi, you're welcome to use this information. You've probably already found all these things anyway.


Thanks a lot, PieceOfMind! No, I did not have this information, which meant I had to re-write some of the work I had already done! :lol:

I wrote about 4 thousand words last night and spent just as long formatting, spell checking, and proof reading it today. Anyway, I almost have the work I did yesterday ready to post, but it's kind of embarassing that I have not gotten very far into the game, yet. I can't believe it takes so long! If it takes 3 hours to play the game, it shouldn't take 20 to do a write-up, that's for sure! LOL

I am actually getting a bit worried that I misunderstood what you were asking the other day. It sounds to me like you know a bit more about the game than I thought you did, especially since you knew about the planet yields and I did not. It doesn't matter, because I really don't mind. Hopefully, this guide will help someone out and even if it doesn't, I still feel good about the effort.

Cheers!

***Begin Edit***
OOPS! It wasn't you that asked about the game, it was stwils! I am very sorry for the mistake! :(
***End Edit***

Thanks for the feedback. :)

Jon

Thanks for the feedback. :)

Jon
You are very welcome, Jon! You have accomplished an amazing feat with this module and I commend you. Frankly, I never thought I would ever see anything as extreme of a Civ4 make-over as what you have just shown the community and the rest of the world. Fantastic work! I have played Galactic Civilization in the past, but I was bored with the game-play after only a few days. I always knew Civilization IV was the superior product and found myself wishing that someone would make a Space Theme strategy game with as much quality and depth. Your module is the closest I have seen and I know it will only get better as time passes. Good luck with Final Frontier, we are all rooting for you and your efforts!

For everyone else, I just finished the first two sections of my Final Frontier Walkthrough (http://gaming.download-warehouse.org/civ/) and I hope someone finds it useful. I know it is not as advanced as some of you may have been expecting and for that I apologize. I never claimed to be an expert, not even with the regular civilization game, I just saw that someone was asking for help and I was compelled to do what I could to assist him. I plan to add several more sections to the guide, on which I will work daily, detailing my understanding of the game mechanics all the way to the end game. If it helps you, great. If it doesn't, please do not give me any grief about it, because I put a lot of work into it and the documentation is for free. If I made any errors or crude uneducated assumptions, I would really appreciate some constructive feedback, because it will help everyone.

On a side note, you are probably wondering why I did not post the guide on this forum, so I will try to answer that question as best I can. I spent nearly 12 hours on this project, while writing, spell checking, proof reading, taking screenshots, resizing images for thumbnails, programming XHTML, validating that XHTML to the 1.0 Transitional standard, etc., and the work is my own. I used to post game reviews on Gamespot, until one day the rhetorical question dawned on me. "Why should I be working so hard on these reviews and just giving it away to a company that does not need my help?" I answered that question by purchasing a domain and uploaded the reviews to my own website. I don't do them often, but when I do, I would rather not see them buried under a sea of other reviews.

Cheers!

Hamarabi

P.S. I am going to post this as another thread, since this is an announcement of the walkthrough and not merely my impression of the module.

I enjoy the mod very much even in just demo mode and enjoyed it even more in full. But despite its uniqueness and its fun factor it is not a very deep game. It needs far more to make it like a full civ game. Jon did a great job on it, yet it needs much more. Regardless I may play this far more than the epic game until such time as some patches are released.

Good work Hamarabi :goodjob:


I then chose Hector Alvarez as my leader head, because his starting system is "New Earth" and for no other reason. From what I could tell none of the civilizations have any benefits over the other, so just pick one.

It's not quite true, they have different traits even if it's not so sophisticated (no UU, UB), like in Civ4.
I look forward reading the follow ups.

Hello, regarding Beyond The Sword, Final Frontier Mod, can i hurry production using credits?

I am very disappointed by the lack of a proper story ending of the Final Frontier. I researched all the techs to get all the backstory, but there are still unanswered questions. What happened to Earth? Did opening up the Astral Plane invoke some kind of a disaster?

I mean WTF. Where is the time of Alpha Centauri which had an excellent story to go with the game.

I am very disappointed by the lack of a proper story ending of the Final Frontier. I researched all the techs to get all the backstory, but there are still unanswered questions. What happened to Earth? Did opening up the Astral Plane invoke some kind of a disaster?

I mean WTF. Where is the time of Alpha Centauri which had an excellent story to go with the game.
It's supposed to be somewhat ambiguous, but if it really, really bothers you I suppose I can provide this. ;)

Jon

Hello, regarding Beyond The Sword, Final Frontier Mod, can i hurry production using credits?
Not at the moment, but it's something I will be fixing. :) I got a little over-zealous when taking buttons out of the city screen. ;)

Jon

Jon, did you never had the desire to add a Final Frontier type of game into the epic Civ 4 game itself, similar to Next War?

We Could then have a Space map of our own Solar System, and a race between civs for satellites, space stations, space mining and colonization of the Solar System planets. First when a proper Solar System colonization is completed, the Alpha Centauri interstellar ship would be possible.

If it was optional, so those that dislike sci-fi elements could avoid it, I think it could be awesome!

Jon, did you never had the desire to add a Final Frontier type of game into the epic Civ 4 game itself, similar to Next War?

We Could then have a Space map of our own Solar System, and a race between civs for satellites, space stations, space mining and colonization of the Solar System planets. First when a proper Solar System colonization is completed, the Alpha Centauri interstellar ship would be possible.

If it was optional, so those that dislike sci-fi elements could avoid it, I think it could be awesome!
I considered this, but there are a number of difficulties with it.

There's a lot more "new" stuff in Final Frontier than Next War, so getting the epic game and the mod to play nice together would have been difficult and taken quite a bit of time (which meant that the standard version of the Final Frontier mod would get less time). Transitioning from the normal land map to the space map would have been rather challenging.

The biggest issue was design-side though. Final Frontier is designed very similarly to the epic game in that each player begins with very little and builds up from there. How do you translate what goes on in an Earth map to the space map? Is there just some point at which all civs "move over"? Does everyone start with the same stuff, or does it vary? If so, how do you determine who gets what? Where does everyone start? (You can't have everyone start in the same Star System). There were just a lot of problems that would have been very hard to figure out a good solution for. I opted to just make the two completely separate.

Extending the game (possibly into space) was actually something that was considered as a major standard game feature early on, but we decided to do other things (e.g. Espionage, Corporations, Apostolic Palace, etc.).

Jon

I considered this, but there are a number of difficulties with it.

There's a lot more "new" stuff in Final Frontier than Next War, so getting the epic game and the mod to play nice together would have been difficult and taken quite a bit of time (which meant that the standard version of the Final Frontier mod would get less time). Transitioning from the normal land map to the space map would have been rather challenging.

The biggest issue was design-side though. Final Frontier is designed very similarly to the epic game in that each player begins with very little and builds up from there. How do you translate what goes on in an Earth map to the space map? Is there just some point at which all civs "move over"? Does everyone start with the same stuff, or does it vary? If so, how do you determine who gets what? Where does everyone start? (You can't have everyone start in the same Star System). There were just a lot of problems that would have been very hard to figure out a good solution for. I opted to just make the two completely separate.

Extending the game (possibly into space) was actually something that was considered as a major standard game feature early on, but we decided to do other things (e.g. Espionage, Corporations, Apostolic Palace, etc.).

Jon

Thanks for your reply!

Well, in my view the standard Civilization map and the new space map would not be mutually exclusive.

You would still manage your Earth empire as before, but when you zoom out, you would first see your satellites orbiting the Earth, then as you zoom further out (further than you are able to now), you would be out in space, and would in fact be looking at the (new) space map instead.

Then there would be no need to assign arbitrary points for civs where to start, since they still manage their Civ empire on Earth just as before, but with the added benefit of an additional space race.


:scan:

Not at the moment, but it's something I will be fixing. :) I got a little over-zealous when taking buttons out of the city screen. ;)

So wait, is that to say there will be updates forthcoming to the Final Frontier mod? I don't want to go spend a lot of time modding it if it's going to get expanded already :).

And, btw, on the subject of missing buttons... Avoid Growth? 8).

I'd love to see updates to this mod, as others said, it has great potential and most of the work has already been done. It's already very impressive.

Thanks for your reply!

Well, in my view the standard Civilization map and the new space map would not be mutually exclusive.

You would still manage your Earth empire as before, but when you zoom out, you would first see your satellites orbiting the Earth, then as you zoom further out (further than you are able to now), you would be out in space, and would in fact be looking at the (new) space map instead.

Then there would be no need to assign arbitrary points for civs where to start, since they still manage their Civ empire on Earth just as before, but with the added benefit of an additional space race.

:scan:
It's a neat idea, but I'm afraid what you're talking about goes a bit beyond what's capable in a simple mod. ;) :) This would require a lot of programming changes.

Jon

Yes, there will be future updates to Final Frontier. I can't promise too much (like making a new tech tree twice as long as what there is now, new civs, etc.), but I will be working on improving a number of interface issues (e.g. a screen which shows you planetary composition and yield when you click on a star system on the main map) and fixing bugs.

Jon

Tuning the A.I is more impotant that adding features at this stage in my view.Great mod BTW.

I really love the Final Frontier mod. It is both different from regular civ and yet similar enough to be interesting. It is just great.

I do think it could use a couple of changes. It seems to me the the rate at which one techs up is a little too fast relative to build times. Since one is often having the build the same building over and over again in the same system it can take quite a bit of time to develop a system. Ussally though I find myself flying through the tech tree faster then I can "keep" up with the improvements.

I'd also suggest adding in more wonders. They don't need to be anything creative, I would suggest just adding the national wonders from regular civ that translate, Wall Street, Oxford, Ironworks, etc. It would help to further seperate one system of the empire from another.

I'd also suggest adding a "spy" ship to preform mission. Espionage seems a bit half hearted without it.

Spy space probes would cool.

Hamarabi, THANK YOU. :thanx:

I only have the demo and will be getting the game from Amazon this week.

This will help me make sense of this and to enjoy playing it.

You are so good to do this. Please have them put it in the War Academy or Reference or somewhere that all of us can find it.

Thanks,
stwils:) :love:

Good work Hamarabi :goodjob:


It's not quite true, they have different traits even if it's not so sophisticated (no UU, UB), like in Civ4.
I look forward reading the follow ups.

Thanks for the feedback, negyvenketto! I fixed the text in my guide, right away! Of course, I should have looked in the civilpedia and I would have noticed that they are indeed different. I should spend some time talking about the advantages and disadvantages of each leader, but I think I will hold off on that, until I have finished the first game.


Hamarabi, THANK YOU. :thanx:

I only have the demo and will be getting the game from Amazon this week.

This will help me make sense of this and to enjoy playing it.

You are so good to do this. Please have them put it in the War Academy or Reference or somewhere that all of us can find it.

Thanks,
stwils:) :love:

You are welcome, stwils! I am glad I could help. I am not aware of the procedure required in order to have this document included in the "War Academy" or "Reference" area of this site. Maybe, I should wait until I have completed the document, first.

Cheers!

Hamarabi

They should have put Final Frontier into the epic game. The space map would have been our Solar System which would slowly open up to you with the discovery of satellites. Then there will be a new race of exploration, colonization and mining in the solar system before the actual Alpha Centauri spaceship is launched. A wasted opportunity... I think that this would be silly. Because the planet that you play on in civ has tons of cities, units, terrain, improvements, etc.
But in FF planets are (rightly) abstracted down to 3 numbers. So what would be the point of all the previous effort you put into Civ? It would be just a prelogue with no effect! So really, you get the same thing by, once you launch a spaceship, go and start a game of FF! voila!

I agree that FF is great, but I really missed events. It be great to add some specific events via a mod or patch. And I agree about the pacing, techs come fast but buildings less so, so that you don't have a chance to get a really developed star system. But maybe I could just lower the speed, but I think then buildings would be built slow too, and it would have the same feel.

Yeah I tried to slow down the speed, but the effect is the same sense the speed just scales the cost of techs and buildings.

What are the specs of your system?

I have an AMD X2 3600+ Brisbane, 2GB RAM, and a 256MB Geforce 7600GT video card and the turns take about 10 seconds or so on my system with larger maps. I think that's excruciatingly slow, to be honest, but I am not going to upgrade my computer for a few seconds. hehe

I have an AMD 3500+ Venice, I believe, 2GB ram and a 256 MB X850XT and my machine takes about 30 seconds between turns anything above 150 turns. I was playing on a huge map with everything sparce.

EDIT: I find this strange indeed BUT playing again on different settings (very dense everything, large map, 7 AI) at 100 turns it is right at 10 seconds.

Hamarabi do you mind if I ask what settings you played with? The first game I played the star systems were very spread out. Did you play with some non-default options?

ThanksIf this is not already answered - set things to dense or very dense.

as far as the tacking FF onto the regular game. The planet you play is Earth - and Earth is lost.

When I first started playing, I was really intrigued by the story and though that pieces of it would develop as random events or through the descriptions on the techs. However, this just turns into a bloodbath from the get go. Here's my suggestions:
- Faster scout units: what's the point of a scout that moves 1 square?
- Make resources more critical. They speed production of certain units, but I never found production to be slow in the first place
- Better defensive units mid-game: When the battleship comes out, the delta planetary defense ships don't stand a chance. Coupled with bomber squadrons, delta cruisers, delta destroyers, the best way to defend a city is with offensive units.
- Allow colonization of Starbases
- Require Starbases to be defended
- Start the game with existing alliances, roles: The civs should be aware of each other at the start of the game and have existing relationships.
- More wonders

What I really love about this scenario are the details of the graphics. The planets have atmospheres, moons, cities as they get populated. The backround stars are about four layers deep. It's really fascinating.

This is an excellent mod! I just got BtS and the epic game is nothing special, but this makes getting the entire expansion worthwhile. I'm glad FF isn't part of the epic game because I wouldn't want to deal with 6000 years of epic gameplay just to take civ into space.

They way land is transitioned into space is great and makes strategy in what to colonize even more important than before while meaning you'll always have some space you can't see between cities. Fighters/bombers/missiles being in the game early give great flexibility in putting together fleets. The units are simple, but each has a role to play, which I think is better than having lots of units that don't do anything special. Having multiple planets with the same buildings on them is great because it lets you make very powerful systems. There's more, but that's just what I can think of now off the top of my head.

A couple of issues with it though.
1. Stealth ships are incredibly overpowered. Catching a defense/attack ship in space or any unarmed ship is instant death and the AI is too stupid to go after them. Also I can easily pillage AI resources with stealth ships with no consequence to me.
2. AI can't attack or defend. I suppose FF can't fix the underlying AI problem, but it would be good to have it build something other than basic attack, defense, and destroyers.

I would say one of the better firaxis scenarios. Jon Shafer seems to have the most talent at firaxis in creating scenarios. :)

I think this mod is great but lacking in UU's, UB's, # of civs, leaders, wonders, and a substantial tech tree. other than that, it is a good mod with enormeous potential

I feel that the module is too short and that there is a little bit of a mismatch with pace of technology and improvements. There needs to be a lot more techs between building a shipyard and your first battleship, because it is the most powerful unit in the game. Not to mention the fact that once you reach this juncture, there isn't anywhere else to go other than a more powerful battleship.
The problem here is entirely related to the research pace. If you slow down (increase beaker costs) research by as little as 20% and remove 90% of them from the wreckage (goody huts) the pace is very different. Much more to my liking anyway and all-in-all a pretty easy tweak to make in the XML file.

Another feature that I feel is lacking, is the ability to determine which star system would be more advantageous to colonize.
It's actually pretty easy to spot a good system if you follow two simple rules; More planets is better and bigger planets are better. The way the game mechanics work you will always have a better system if it can support larger populations, especially larger populations on individual planets since that basically multiplies the production value of the planet by the population. For example a planet with a pop cap of 1 that produces 3 food will produce a maximum of 4 food per pop (with a farm) and have a max size of 2 (with a habitat or green civic) or 3 with both a habitat and the green civic. So, that planet will produce at most 12 food. Now a larger planet that produces 2 food can produce 2 per pop, if the base pop cap is 2 it will equal the improved size 1 planet without needing any improvements or special civics. So selecting sites for early colonies is very easy, bigger is always better since you will get a quicker return without needing any investment into infrastructure.

The value system just doesn't work the way it is supposed to.
It works ok out-of-the-box. The strain on relationships makes it difficult to get every value in your systems. Since each value grants the ability to create a specialized building only being able to create a single one of them works well for balancing. If you can easily get wealth, knowledge and power than you can easily have big bonuses to income, research and free promotions for new units so not having them easily intermingled is a good thing.

The trading game needs to be more than just swapping technologies with rival civilizations.
That it does.

The problem here is entirely related to the research pace. If you slow down (increase beaker costs) research by as little as 20% and remove 90% of them from the wreckage (goody huts) the pace is very different. Much more to my liking anyway and all-in-all a pretty easy tweak to make in the XML file.


It's actually pretty easy to spot a good system if you follow two simple rules; More planets is better and bigger planets are better. The way the game mechanics work you will always have a better system if it can support larger populations, especially larger populations on individual planets since that basically multiplies the production value of the planet by the population. For example a planet with a pop cap of 1 that produces 3 food will produce a maximum of 4 food per pop (with a farm) and have a max size of 2 (with a habitat or green civic) or 3 with both a habitat and the green civic. So, that planet will produce at most 12 food. Now a larger planet that produces 2 food can produce 2 per pop, if the base pop cap is 2 it will equal the improved size 1 planet without needing any improvements or special civics. So selecting sites for early colonies is very easy, bigger is always better since you will get a quicker return without needing any investment into infrastructure.


It works ok out-of-the-box. The strain on relationships makes it difficult to get every value in your systems. Since each value grants the ability to create a specialized building only being able to create a single one of them works well for balancing. If you can easily get wealth, knowledge and power than you can easily have big bonuses to income, research and free promotions for new units so not having them easily intermingled is a good thing.


That it does.

Some of this is true, but the game still has flaws. But it still has great potential!!!

I think that the slavery state must be at the begining of tech tree, because u have many nonworked tiles and little happies. Thats why u prefer the slavery state. But in ff when u reach this tech , it have a little sence. Good graphic!

actually the position of the planet matter too since you only have access to the closest planet in the start.

actually the position of the planet matter too since you only have access to the closest planet in the start.


Very true, but again bigger is better. Suppose you have the choice between two systems, one with 5 planets and one with 7. The 7 planet system has small and medium planets and only two will be workable at the start, while the 5 planet system has medium and large planets and 3 workable from the start. The 7 planet system will possibly be better in the long run but the 5 planet system will be better at colonization so you have to consider everything.

Someone elsewhere talked about the Civs and only the Red Syndicate being worthy of use. I disagree, I think all of them have there strengths and if you colonize systems with your particular civ in mind any of them can prevail.

More fun in MP than SP. I prefer Luka.

Settings:
Deity difficulty (does not matter for MP)
Quick speed
Tiny size
4-6 players/AI
Stars normal, Features (resources) very dense , Hostile Features normal
No technology trading
Aggressive AI
Random Personalities
Raging barbarians

Settings for MP:
No barbarians
No tribal villages

Even with very dense resources, I almost never build a starbase (only happy or copper are worth it).

Say wha????

Well gee yeah with a tiny map and quick speed only war units are worth building. Anything else you get slaughtered because the opponents are building nothing but troops. That doesn't interest me at all. When I want to war I play something else.

Even in MP, you build things other than troops. MP is mostly war. Your point?

Regarding mapsize:
Small map is just too big for MP. Diety, raging, and a crowded map help to alleviate the tiny (ok, sometimes small) mapsize when playing SP.

When I can win on diety and raging, I'll toggle tech trading on :) Although, at Diety level, you get great tech trades anyway.

Regarding quick speed:
You play something else in this mod? Weird. It is a handicap for military strats and MP games need to be over in 2 hours. Then again, I play quick speed in the epic game as well. Maybe if I was playing a peaceful game and I wanted to give my opponents an edge, I would play Normal. I like the game to get into the industrial age in one sitting. Just personal taste I suppose.

Say wha????

Personal taste is exactly it. No I prefer to play at slower speed and to be able to enjoy whatever tech advantage I may earn or have to fight whatever tech advantage my opponent may earn. And we generally play three or more several hour sittings.

I'd have to add to the excellent feedback:

Yes, this is one of the most imaginative Mods to Civ 4.
It's sort of what Alpha Centauri/Alien Crossfire should have been.
In many ways SMAC/X was just a cosmetic mod, you basically had units of similar strength abilities on a somewhat Sci-Fi back drop...oh, that and sea colonies and cities.

But with Final Frontier you colonize star systems in a SEA OF SPACE.
Brilliant!

Even the colony ship is the space ship that you build in the standard Civ 4 game...which is about right. Colonizing space will amount to colonizing other star systems...

It's lots of fun!
Thanks