China SORELY needs a new leader. Both of their current leaders were really cruel in reality, therefore China needs a new leader, most probably a Tang leader such as T'ai Tsung, Wu Chao, or Xuanzong. Lets not even mention how crazy it sounds for one leader to be from the 3rd century B.C., while the other leader for that same civilization died in 1976.

i agree. if there is any civilization in civ that merits more than 2 leader (should be 4-5 given their 5000 year history) its china. they practically invented everything we take for granted today!!

yes but i think Spain and Japan and the Arabs deserve it more.

yes but i think Spain and Japan and the Arabs deserve it more.

I agree, all civs should have 2 leaders before you add any more leaders to other civs

spain i think most derserves another leader,but no more new leaders for civ 4 because there will be no more addons for civ 4.but maybe in civ 5 in a couple of years

And how come the Celts have 2? Or America that has just been here the last 300years have 3...

And how come the Celts have 2? Or America that has just been here the last 300years have 3...

Because Boudica is hot and this game was made by Americans

...and now we discuss which 'civilization' deserves more leaders based on their influence in history. Someone will defend 'America', someone will say 'then wheres Poland?' and etc.

Because Boudica is hot and this game was made by Americans
Good answer :goodjob:

...and now we discuss which 'civilization' deserves more leaders based on their influence in history. Someone will defend 'America', someone will say 'then wheres Poland?' and etc.

no offence but people really need to stop with poland people act like the polish are the greatest civ going i think nubia and countless other civs should be put in the game above poland come on now.im just sick of this wheres poland thing going on.

i agree. if there is any civilization in civ that merits more than 2 leader (should be 4-5 given their 5000 year history) its china. they practically invented everything we take for granted today!!

and it took Britain a couple of hundered years to over take and bring law systems, proper police forces, better ships with propellers, trains etc

so whats your point?

im glad theres churchill though, id still be glad if he was the only England leader!

and it took Britain a couple of hundered years to over take and bring law systems, proper police forces, better ships with propellers, trains etc

so whats your point?

im glad theres churchill though, id still be glad if he was the only England leader!

me i always wanted king richard the lionheart in there before all leaders of england

Because Boudica is hot and this game was made by Americans

If they don't want to add leaders and don't really care much about historical relevance, can they replace Louis with Joan of Arc, Ramsi with Cleo, also Mao replaced by Empress Wu? We need more hot chicks. Every time I see Louis and Mao as my neighbour I can't resist my urge to rush them, simply because they look ugly and annoying.

Replacing Asoka with Aishwarya Rai or Wang Kon with Dae Jang Geum are other appealing possibilities the Firaxis should consider if they have another expansion.

urgh....empress wu.....hot chick....something doesn't add up there.

and you forgot about cleopetra....those lucky kids w/gaming consoles

yes but i think Spain and Japan and the Arabs deserve it more.

I think that those should have 2nd leaders first, then (in order) Incas, China, Mali and Mongolia should have each one leader more.

im glad theres churchill though, id still be glad if he was the only England leader!

Hmm...yep, I suppose you couldn't make a Civ game without him, although he was as much of a s**t as any of our other leaders, and more than most.

Wouldn't be my choice though. George III for me...mad as a badger.

*America: Thomas Jefferson

Arabia: Abu Bakr

Aztec: Auitzotl

Babylon: Nebuchadrezzar II

Byzantium: Basil II

Carthage: Dido

Celtia: Brian Boru

China: T'ai Tsung

Egypt: Thutmose III

*England: Duke of Wellington

Ethiopia: Menelik II

*France: Napoleon III

Germany: Paul von Hindenburg

Greece: Leonidas

Holy Rome: Maria Theresa

Inca: Pachacuti

India: Akbar

Japan: Minamoto no Yoritomo

Korea: Yi-Shun-Shin

Khmers: Jayavarman II

Mali: Sundiata Keita

Maya: Smoke Shell

Mongolia: Batu Khan

Native America: Hiawatha

Netherlands: Maurice of Nassau

Ottomans: Osman I

Persia: Xerxes I

Portugal: Henry the Navigator

Rome: Hadrian

*Russia: Ivan III (the Great)

Spain: Alaric I

Sumer: Sargon I

Vikings: Canute the Great

Zululand: Dingane

*This civ can't get a new leader anyhow because it has 3 leaders; just an idea

Please tell me if I missed anyone!

urgh....empress wu.....hot chick....something doesn't add up there.

and you forgot about cleopetra....those lucky kids w/gaming consoles

Wu should be hot when she was young. You think a girl who was nicknamed "Ms seductive" by the father (Taizong) and then got the son hooked to her horrible looking? The problem is a female can quite often look totally different when she gets older. Elizabeth Taylor looked great when she was young, and now she looked like a witch.

I did mention cleo, though. Recent finding actually showed that she looked quite awful.

I wouldn't mind having Joan of Arc in the game. I remember watching the movie and was quite interested in what she was trying to accomplish. Maybe they could make her hott. Then again Issabella is my babe :) so i'm happy. That girl from Russia is pretty cute too, though she reminds me of a tomboy haha

*America: Thomas Jefferson

Arabia: Abu Bakr

Aztec: Auitzotl

Babylon: Nebuchadrezzar II

Byzantium: Basil II

Carthage: Dido

Celtia: Alexander III

China: T'ai Tsung

Egypt: Thutmose III

*England: Duke of Wellington

Ethiopia: Menelik II

*France: Napoleon III

Germany: Paul von Hindenburg

Greece: Agamemnon

Holy Rome: Maria Theresa

Inca: Pachacuti

India: Akbar

Japan: Minamoto no Yoritomo

Korea: Yi-Shun-Shin

Khmers: Jayavarman II

Mali: Sundiata Keita

Maya: Smoke Shell

Mongolia: Batu Khan

Native America: Hiawatha

Netherlands: Maurice of Nassau

Ottomans: Osman I

Persia: Xerxes I

Portugal: Henry the Navigator

Rome: Hadrian

*Russia: Ivan III

Spain: Alaric I

Sumer: Sargon I

Vikings: Canute the Great

Zululand: Dingane

*This civ can't get a new leader anyhow because it has 3 leaders; just an idea

Please tell me if I missed anyone!

The ones marked in red are my favourites too. Americans could also have Theodore Roosevelt. Native Americans could also have Geronimo, Dragging Canoe, Red Cloud or Crazy Horse. For Russia I would pick Ivan the Terrible (could have new "Cruel" trait, because you can add up to 2 leaders w/o new traits (3 if you use overpowered Ind/Phi combination too)), for Spain I would pick Philip II and for India I would pick Rajaraja the Great. Your suggestion for Japan is good, but I would favor Prince Shotoku. Khmers could have 2 new leaders (in order to add), Jayavarman II and Jayavarman VII. Byzantium has many leaders to pick to the game.

About Alexander III, it isn't good to have 2 leaders in the game with exactly the same name (problem with adding Russian Alexander III too).

America is one of those oddities in that the nation is only ~230 years old, yet it has had a succession of very interesting personalities leading it.

I pretty much agree that they should get the mono-leader civs up to speed as a priority, though.

if mao is included they need to add kim ll sung as leader of korea

Hmm...yep, I suppose you couldn't make a Civ game without him, although he was as much of a s**t as any of our other leaders, and more than most.

Wouldn't be my choice though. George III for me...mad as a badger.

yeah but he made some good speeches

the lads in Khaki green and soup-bowl helmets made him proud

oh how i harken for those best, British days, when even the worst British leader was better than the mass of traitors we have today

onto the topic

i agree, the mono-leadered civs should have new leaders added as a priority if ever there was one!

I'd just like an East Asian leader that isn't Protective. I find it silly that Korea, Japan, and both of China's leaders are all Protective.

But yes, if any civ deserves 3 leaders it's the longest continual civilization in existence: China.

someone will say 'then wheres Poland?'

You really want me to start don't you. ;)

no offence but people really need to stop with poland people act like the polish are the greatest civ going i think nubia and countless other civs should be put in the game above poland come on now.im just sick of this wheres poland thing going on.

You guys are really asking for it aren't you...

Celtia: Alexander III

2 alexes would be cunfusing.

*France: Napoleon III

There were more napoleons? :crazyeye:

Greece: Agamemnon


We don't know if he existed. But then again we have gilgamesh and Ragnar.

Japan: Minamoto no Yoritomo

I personally would rather have Toyotami.

*Russia: Ivan III

Is that one Ivan the Great or Ivan the Terrible? :p

I did mention cleo, though. Recent finding actually showed that she looked quite awful.

And how does that attracts Augustas ceaser on to her bed?

About Alexander III, it isn't good to have 2 leaders in the game with exactly the same name (problem with adding Russian Alexander III too).

Then why do you consider Napoleon III a good idea?

Is that one Ivan the Great or Ivan the Terrible? :p

Ivan the Great. Ivan IV is Ivan the Terrible.

Then why do you consider Napoleon III a good idea?

Because then there would be Napoleon I and Napoleon III. In Alex case, there would be Alexander III and Alexander III (Alexander the Great).

And how does that attracts Augustas ceaser on to her bed?

I don't believe she did attract Augustus to her bed... Julius and Mark Anthony she did.

We don't actually know what she looked like, but it's pretty clear she was attractive enough by the standards of the day.

i agree. if there is any civilization in civ that merits more than 2 leader (should be 4-5 given their 5000 year history) its china. they practically invented everything we take for granted today!!

Care to give a couple example of that "pratically everything" ? Please enlighten me as I have no idea (beside gunpowder which they used to entertain themselves).

Egypt: Thutmose III



mm.. Not bad, but I personally think that Hatty should be joined by either Cleopatra, or Akhenaton

And how come the Celts have 2? Or America that has just been here the last 300years have 3...The U.S. has been one of the most influential countries in history in that short period.

mm.. Not bad, but I personally think that Hatty should be joined by either Cleopatra, or Akhenaton

According to most references, Thutmose III was like THE BEST Egyptian warrior-king. Firaxis was so unwise to include Ramsses II (A surrender monkey!) instead of the great (and young) Thutmose III!

You might also want to look at my original list again; I made some changes.

According to most references, Thutmose III was like THE BEST Egyptian warrior-king. Firaxis was so unwise to include Ramsses II (A surrender monkey!) instead of the great (and young) Thutmose III!

You might also want to look at my original list again; I made some changes.

I agree, But I think Akhenaton was interesting in that he tried to bring monotheisim to Egypt. Which, if done well, that would give the Egyptians an advantage of grabbing a really early religion (Not sure if there is a good strategyn for that already, I never play as them, and only faced them a handful of times)

England rules the sea????
in 1982 we destroy a lot of your mother. .. .. .. .er ships, with rocks.. if we had had more misiles... your gurkas friends would be swiming on the sea...

Maybe england rules the seas... but you rule the underground (subway) ehehehehe blow up your ass

England rules the sea????
in 1982 we destroy a lot of your mother. .. .. .. .er ships, with rocks.. if we had had more misiles... your gurkas friends would be swiming on the sea...

:rolleyes:

Familiar with the exploits of the British Navy in the period 1588 (Battle of Gravelines) -1946 (End of WWII)?

And how come the Celts have 2? Or America that has just been here the last 300years have 3...

It is quite simply because America is #1 :king:

(and we also made the game lol)

Wouldn't be my choice though. George III for me...mad as a badger.

yeah but he made some good speeches

Hell yeah...

"Wibble, bibble, bibble...where's my goat?"

That was my favourite.

Oh wait, you meant Churchill...

HiroHito:
OK, "invented everything we take for granted today" might be an exaggeration, but still...
I might recommend you to read some of Joseph Needham's epic work "Science and Civilisation in Ancient China" (even after his death there are still people working on it), or better start with something introductory. There's paper , the compass, block printing (and e moving type) and of course, gunpowder (which was not only used by the Chinese for fireworks- primitive cannons, bombs and fire arms were already invented during the Song dynasty). These are only the so-called "Four Great Inventions" (and this is not CCP propaganda, but based on thorough academic research).
There are also comparatively minor contributions like the wheelbarrow, the iron plough, the crossbow (think China's UU in Civ!), various siege engines, clockworks with a stopper, drilling techniques to obtain salt, advanced ship building (even though they did NOT sail to the New World)...
While it is obvious that Europe outteched China from the Enlightenment Epoch onwards, the achievements listed may already form a pretty impressive record for a society that actually wasn't too much into scientific thinking if compared to the Medieval Islamic World or the West.

To be ontopic... yes I support the introduction of Tang Taizong (is it legal to extract his graphics from the Chinese version of CIV?) as third leader...
would Charismatic/Creative (the only combination left I think apart from Pro/Otg) be too powerful for him (pavs)? Since expansion and culture (in a broad sense) are the trademarks of the Tang...

(sorry for that long post)

I don't believe she did attract Augustus to her bed... Julius and Mark Anthony she did.

Ehh got them confused... lol

all civs should have 2 leaders before you add any more leaders to other civs

Agreed!
They made nice work with some leaders and personalities,
but why neglect others?

I agree, But I think Akhenaton was interesting in that he tried to bring monotheisim to Egypt. Which, if done well, that would give the Egyptians an advantage of grabbing a really early religion (Not sure if there is a good strategyn for that already, I never play as them, and only faced them a handful of times)

Both Egypt's leaders are spiritual and their UB (Obelisk, replacing monument) enables 2 priest specialists so Egypt is first civ that can run specialists. Only thing that could make them more powerful (and probably unbalanced) on religion department would be changing either of their starting techs (Agriculture + Wheel iirc) to Mysticism (or, if you want to be a real nitpick give them Fishing + Mysticism and Fin/Spi leader for ultimate early religion).

England certainly did rule the sea's for centuries, how else could an island nation become the most powerful nation of its time? It was not until the end of WWII did their domination come to an end. As for the whole America has too many leaders I deffinitly agree. Why should such a young nation beat Egypt, Greece, Rome (although you could argue Byzantine is just an extension on Rome), China and France?

They should at least fix the existing leaders. I mean, look at Mao's traits! Isn't Expansive supposed to be for growing big cities? We all know he did the opposite, and then they got confused over what else to give him, but then they realized he was Asian and made him Protective. Because, y'know, Asian empires were and are xenophobic closed societies....

Oh, and we actually do know what Kleo looked like. We've found coins with her face on them, and she had quite a hook nose. And a protruding chin. Our ancient sources rarely highlight her physical attributes, but her wit, boldness, and seductive manner are always mentioned...

if they wanna add a hot female leader again like Boudica then I nominate Wu Zetian, the only empress in Chinese history, who actually overthrew Tang at its height, without even a coup! lol

America - Theodore Roosevelt
Aztec - Itzcoatl
China - Taizong, Wu Di, Wu Zetian
Egypt - Menes, Thutmose III
England - Alfred
France - Jeanne d'Arc (she wasn't a real French leader, but France already has 3 great real leaders, so she isn't the sole leader like in Civ III)
Germany - Um... better not mention this word
Greece - Agamemnon (there's probably a better Greek leader out there somewhere though)
Inca - Pahacuti
India - Samudra Gupta, Akbar, Shah Jahan, Chandragupta Maurya, Aurangzeb (there's lots of potential leaders because India should be split into multiple civs)
Japan - Jimmu, Meiji, Showa aka Hirohito or Hideki Tojo
Mali - Sundiata Keita
Mongolia - Ogedei Khan, Uzbeg Khan (unless the Golden Horde is it's own civ)
Persia - Xerxes, Ardashir I, Khosrau II
Rome - Trajan, Marcus Aurelius, Scipio Africanus, Romulus
Russia - Ivan III, Ivan IV
Spain - Phillip II, Ferdinand
Carthage - Dido
Celts - NOOOOOO!
Korea - Gwanggaeto
Ottoman Empire - Osman, Murad II
Vikings - Canute, Margaret
Zululand - Cetshwayo
Babylonia - Nebuchadrezzar
Netherlands - dunno
Ethiopia - Haile Selassie (why is everyone always suggesting Menelik II?)
Holy Roman Empire - Frederick I Barbarossa, Otto I
Khmer - Jayavarman VII
Maya - Smoke-Jaguar
Native Americans - Hiawatha, Powhattan
Portugal - Afonso I
Sumer - ? (Sargon was an Akkadian king, making him a Sumerian leader would be like making Hammurabi a Sumerian leader, which would make sense, but it would be inconsistent to have one but not the other)

Those are the leaders I would want.

if they wanna add a hot female leader again like Boudica then I nominate Wu Zetian, the only empress in Chinese history, who actually overthrew Tang at its height, without even a coup! lol

I second that. If you have any knowledge about how woman are treated in ancient chinese cultures, you would be amazed at what empress wu did. In chinese history, there are other women that acted as emperor behind the scene. But she is the only woman that have the guts to step infront and proclaim herself the empress and SUCEEDED. Other women that ruled behind curtains did not even have the courage to even try to step up. In fact people before her could not even imaging such thing could happen. Sadly, the whole confucianist world is against her since she is a woman, and its the confucianists that wrote the history books in china. She was never justly represented.

England rules the sea????
in 1982 we destroy a lot of your mother. .. .. .. .er ships, with rocks.. if we had had more misiles... your gurkas friends would be swiming on the sea...

wait, you lost and we crippled your military, so dont act like you made a mass achievment

Maybe england rules the seas... but you rule the underground (subway) ehehehehe blow up your ass

and thats just low, you peice of crap

*America: Thomas Jefferson


Korea: Yi-Shun-Shin



Please tell me if I missed anyone!

Yi was not only never the national leader, but he never even held a political office of any kind.

This is like picking Douglas MacArthur as the American leader.

In short, stupid and/or ignorant.

Wu should be hot when she was young. You think a girl who was nicknamed "Ms seductive" by the father (Taizong) and then got the son hooked to her horrible looking? The problem is a female can quite often look totally different when she gets older. Elizabeth Taylor looked great when she was young, and now she looked like a witch.

I did mention cleo, though. Recent finding actually showed that she looked quite awful.

Gettingfat is correct.

Wu is one of the legendary beauties in the Chinese lore. The problem is that's about her only asset.

I don't believe she did attract Augustus to her bed... Julius and Mark Anthony she did.

We don't actually know what she looked like, but it's pretty clear she was attractive enough by the standards of the day.

You are correct. Augustus never bedded Cleopatra.

I think we need more leaders in general, hell, more Civs, too! I'm not even concerned with overlapping trait combos, leaders can be different through their personalities :p More leaders! Especially modern ones.

Specifically on topic: I agree that China could use some more leaders, but I like the ones they have currently, too.