View Full Version : Chinese history: Warring states period


Fallen Angel Lord
May 27, 2002, 11:01 AM
Okay, there alot of debate about this period in time. I'll start off by answering partly which states Chu conquered.

Chu conquered yui which conquered wu . Chu also conquered several others, I forgot which ones though.

Of the remaining 7 at the end Chu was the strongest at first. BY the ways which one of the 7 do you guys think was the weakest?

Knight-Dragon
May 28, 2002, 02:10 AM
Han was the weakest. It was the smallest, and surrounded by Wei on all sides I think.

Unless you counted Zhou itself (the seat of the powerless Zhou dynasty). Conquered by Qin in 256 BC. But Zhou was not considered one of the seven.

Knight-Dragon
May 28, 2002, 02:14 AM
Chu didn't conquer Yue that completely. A segment of the non-Chinese Yue moved southwards into Fujian, where they held on till well into the Han era.

Chu might or might not be the strongest at first, but at the end of the day, Qin conquered all. For sheer ruthlessness, none could match the Qin. After all, it was the first totalitarian state in the world. ;)

Fallen Angel Lord
May 28, 2002, 08:46 PM
Qin was the first to totally unite china. Shi Huan was the first proclaimed "Emperor" . Chu was stronger than Qin in the beggining but Shi Huan was ambitious and was a good strategist. Now his action after he conquered needs working on.

Knight-Dragon
May 28, 2002, 08:56 PM
King Zheng never commanded armies in the field (at least that's my impression). I'd hardly call him a great strategist. He had good people working for him though. Like Li Su etc. Qin was already the hegemonic power when he came to the throne.

In the end, what differentiated Qin from Chu was Law. In Qin, everyone was equal before the Law, excepting maybe the King. In Chu, aristocrats called the shots. Hence the Qin people and soldiers were more motivated to fight for their kingdom, even if the Law was draconian.

Fallen Angel Lord
May 28, 2002, 09:06 PM
There was that last huge battle where the old Qin commander peacefully camped out for like 6 months and then completely destroyed the Chu army.

No, he may have never commanded in the field, but he knew talent and knew how to win, he goes on my list of one of the greatest conquers in all of history. Ranks right behind Charlemagne.

Knight-Dragon
May 28, 2002, 09:39 PM
Behind Charlemagne??? This guy practically founded China, as we know it today. :rolleyes:

Fallen Angel Lord
May 28, 2002, 09:55 PM
Well him and Charlemagne come pretty close because Charlemagne did like reunite the remnance of the roman empire. In my opinion he is the start of pulling Europe out of the dark ages although that didn't happen until 400 or 500 years later. My list of greatest conquerers(not rulers).

1. Ghenghis Khan
2. Alexander the Great
3. Charlemagne
4. Shi Huang
5. Caesar

mcdh
Jun 08, 2002, 01:12 AM
IMO, Qin Shi Huang was way greater than Genghis Khan. It was true that Genghis conqured the vast lands in Asia and Europe, but he never eastablished a firm control over this lands, and he might even never tried.

Before Shi Huang, China was divided into so many states, and there was even no desire for a single united nation. While, Qin Shi Huang, after his conqured of the rest of the states, standardized the Chinese language, measure units, money across all the states. He also standardized the wheel and wagons, and built roads, with standardized width, to connect his empire. He designed a whole new governing system, which became the basis of two thousand years of China government. He built the Great Wall to defend the barbarians in the north. Qin Shi Huang's greatness was that he united the Chinese people, built an empire which survived two thousand years, and which led the world in most of the time. Genghis Khan never did, nor could he do it.

mcdh
Jun 08, 2002, 01:24 AM
Originally posted by Knight-Dragon
Chu didn't conquer Yue that completely. A segment of the non-Chinese Yue moved southwards into Fujian, where they held on till well into the Han era.

Chu might or might not be the strongest at first, but at the end of the day, Qin conquered all. For sheer ruthlessness, none could match the Qin. After all, it was the first totalitarian state in the world. ;)

One reason for Chu to be larger than stronger in most of the time was that Chu's ruler was king, while all rulers of other states were dukes, whose power, at least norminally, came from the king of Zhou. So after the conqure of small states, Chu could merge the new lands to the kingdom freely by Chu's will, while other states couldn't do it without the consent of the King of Zhou.

It's funny that Chu's ruler wanted to be a duke at the beginning, but the King of Zhou would grant him. The reason was that the king, as well as all the other states thought Chu, which was located in south border of the kingdom, as barbarian. So the angry Chu ruler declared himself a king, which was equal to the King of Zhou. Then all the other states, uniting behind the king of Zhou, bagan a war against Chu. But as we all know, the king of Zhou and other states couldn't defeat Chu's army, and then had to accept the result, though the other states never formally address Chu's ruler as a king.