Well, here it finally is. ;)

There's some big holes in it like no units, civics and some other stuff, but it has about all reasonable facilities, improvements and wonders/projects (both national and global).
O yes, and I didn't wrote down the links from one tech to another here, but hopefully the context gives you a hint. I did draw up links on my paper sheet here at home though.

Preliminary tech tree for a Moonmod, BtS expansion

X1:
COMPOSITES:
FIBER OPTICS:
ECOLOGY: Mushroom Cave (+1 :food:)
GENETICS:
ROBOTICS:

X2:
LOW-G ENGINEERING: Maintenance Bay (double healing rate for non-infantry units, units promote here)
LUNAR NETWORKS: Network Core/Junction (+2 :science:)
LUNAR BACTERIOLOGY: Recycling Center?
PHYSIOLOGY STUDIES: Sick Bay (double healing rate for infantry units)
LUNAR MINING: Can construct mines

X3:
LUNAR INDUSTRY: Assembly Hall (+50% construction rate)
FUSION POWER: Tokamak Reaktor (+50% power? needs He³)
COLONIAL ETHICS: enables resource trading
LOW-G CONSTRUCTION: Environmental Plant (less upkeep)
LOW-G MEDICINES: Medical Research Lab facility?

X4:
LOW-G TACTICS: Training Grounds (+2 xp for newly trained units, units upgrade here)
CHARTRA SELENE: Lunar Council (wonder)
SELEPONICS (Hydroponics): Glasshouse improvement, needs waterice. Fishery Tanks facility, also needs waterice.
TELEMETRIC OPERATIONS: Mines can increase output or +1 mines
POWER ECONOMICS: enables power trading
ORBITAL RECONNAISANCE: Satellite Control (with Lunar Industry)

X5:
BIO-ENGINEERING: Surface Park Wonder (+2 :) in every base), needs Tungsten. Chicken Tubes (+1 :food: ), needs Mushroom Cave
VACUUM LOGISTICS: Eagle unit, enables "irrigation" for glasshouses further out from the base or from a waterice resource
LUNAR CORPORATIONS: enables corporation founding
ORBITAL CONSTRUCTION: Orbital Yard national wonder (doubles constructionrate of space-based stuff)

X6:
GENE-MANIPULATION: Longevity Project
MICROFUSION: starprobes, Colony on other planets/moons in Sol possible
LAGRANGE: PlanetViewer Project, Lagrange Colony


Facilities in a nutshell:
Sick Bay
Mushroom Cave
Assembly Hall
Network Core/Junction
Maintenance Bay
Training Grounds
Chicken Tubes
Fishery Tank
Surface Park
Transport Hub
Environmental Plant
Recycling Center?
Physics Lab?
Satellite Control

Improvements in a nutshell:
Astronomy Institute
Linear Accelerator
Glasshouse
Mine
Extractor
Solar Plant
Lunar Bunker
Track (road)
Monorail/maglev line (railway)

National Wonders/Projects:
Electromagnetic launcher (for constructing intra-lunar stuff double as fast, and enables orbital unitdrops everywhere)
Research Coordination Center (+100% research output)
Orbital Yard (for constructing extra-lunar stuff double as fast)
Tokamak Reactor (+ power for all assembly halls)

Wonders:
Surface Park (+2 :) in every base)
Lunar Council (gives satellite view to the Council's chairman from every base that has one from whatever faction)
Longevity Project (like in SMAC)
PlanetViewer Project (gives data on extrasolar systems)
Satellite Hack (workname, gives the owner satellite data like the Council's Chairman has)

Suggestions are welcome.

I like all of techs Geo. It looks like a good start. The units will fill themselves in once we decide what we want on the Moon.

I guess I'm unsure about the length of this mod and how many eras we intend. Is this the first era, the entire tree? Can we throw in some other tiers when the need arises? I like the idea of having offshoots between tiers. So we could have some between X2 and X3 that aren't prereqs for X3, but could come in handy. Same for later tiers as well.

Do you want to do the XML on this or do you want me to?

Plz wait with any xml coding. :please:
I have been hard at work on the BtS XML editor spreadsheet trying to get it done by the end of this week.

Good by me. How does Geo's stuff look to you matt?

Plz wait with any xml coding. :please:
I have been hard at work on the BtS XML editor spreadsheet trying to get it done by the end of this week.

Okay. :)
I'll try my hand at modulating the Ethnic Artstyles mod then. Can use the exercize.

I like all of techs Geo. It looks like a good start. The units will fill themselves in once we decide what we want on the Moon.

Yeah, I don't see a problem in this department.

I guess I'm unsure about the length of this mod and how many eras we intend. Is this the first era, the entire tree? Can we throw in some other tiers when the need arises? I like the idea of having offshoots between tiers. So we could have some between X2 and X3 that aren't prereqs for X3, but could come in handy. Same for later tiers as well.

Should have indicated so. The techtree sofar goes to the end of the second era/begin of the third era with the tier 6 techs.
I went as far as when humanity on the Moon is back on its feet and can think of expanding beyond its little world again. And as on offshoots (dead-end techs?), I think we'll need some more. As it looks now the techtree is a bit too "narrow" with on average 5 techs/tier, so an extra one every few tiers would do good.

Do you want to do the XML on this or do you want me to?

Well, Matthewv made his request. :D

Good by me. How does Geo's stuff look to you matt?

Generally speaking I think we can all agree to tech tree needs some more techs to make it wider. I would like to see the tech tree with all the and and or prereqs drawn in before I make any comments on the techs themselves.

I'll try to make a graphic representation, with techs linked, coming weekend.

I'm thinking now about buttons and what sort of pattern or style we want to use. I like the AoI style of rendered shots on a white background and I love the SMAC-style for techs. Any thoughts? Do we want to make them ourselves or use net art?

The AoI style looks a bit... simple... to me. (at least if you meant the unit buttons in that WWII mod of BtS?
The SMAC-mod is already going for the logo-style, do we want this mod to look like a clone in this aspect?

Personally, I think there's already alot of buttons outthere. Granted not enough to cover it all and definitely in the unit department there's close to nothing.

That's why I'm opening it up for discussion. ;)

I'd like a consistent theme, but I don't care what that theme is.

That's why I'm opening it up for discussion. ;)

I'd like a consistent theme, but I don't care what that theme is.

I agree, I have an idea of what we might use for a theme but I am far to busy to draw it up atm.

I agree, I have an idea of what we might use for a theme but I am far to busy to draw it up atm.

snipper is a good button maker. If he has time can you explain your idea?

Well, here is a pic of how I see the first era and the onset of the second era...
Note that some changes are made since the write-up earlier this week. ;)
After some domestic tasks I plan to make a similar pic for the second era.

I'm all for it so far Geo. It'll be easier to test it out and make changes (if necessary) then to tinker too much.

Now I'll patiently wait on matthewv's program. :)

I'm all for it so far Geo. It'll be easier to test it out and make changes (if necessary) then to tinker too much.

Wow, and I didn't even put the facilities, improvements, units, resources, civics,... on it. ;)

Now I'll patiently wait on matthewv's program. :)

Yeah, let's see if he can deliver. :D

Btw, how's the private forum stuff coming up?

Wow, and I didn't even put the facilities, improvements, units, resources, civics,... on it. ;)

Yeah, but you had some listed above.

Yeah, let's see if he can deliver. :D

Btw, how's the private forum stuff coming up?

I haven't heard from TF in a week or so about a few of my PMs. I'll try him again tomorrow. I had to pester...sort of.

Yeah, let's see if he can deliver. :D

Almost finished. l would have had it done yesterday but I spent all night dealing with sound card issues that still aren't fixed.:sad:

You can personally roast me alive and rake hot coals over me if I don't have it done by tomorrow night.(remember I live in GMT -7 time zone.);)

Edit:
About the tech tree:
-Are there no or links?
-Fusion requiring fiber optics doesn't make sense to me.(though looking at the current other techs, nothing seems to be an obvious prereq.(except maybe superconductors))
-Genetics should require low-G biology instead of superconductors.

Further comments to come when we get to playtest it.

Almost finished. l would have had it done yesterday but I spent all night dealing with sound card issues that still aren't fixed.:sad:

Sorry to hear that. I hope you solved it?

You can personally roast me alive and rake hot coals over me if I don't have it done by tomorrow night.(remember I live in GMT -7 time zone.);)

No problem, I always wanted to see the Rockies during Summer. :D

Edit:
About the tech tree:
-Are there no or links?
-Fusion requiring fiber optics doesn't make sense to me.(though looking at the current other techs, nothing seems to be an obvious prereq.(except maybe superconductors))
-Genetics should require low-G biology instead of superconductors.

Further comments to come when we get to playtest it.

"OR" links are by definition depicted through the arrows. It's the "requires" notes that depict "AND" stuff in Civ4, remember?
Well, the first 2 techtiers are mostly from Civ4, so you can complain at them. ;) Check your F6-screen in a game, Firaxis used the prereqs I used. This said, I agree with you and was thinking of using Superconductors as a requirement for Fusion.
On Genetics, again it is straight from the Civ4 techtree. I thought it was valid since genes (in laboratories) need to be stored at low temperatures and superconductors are a good tool for that? And yes, Low-G Biology can be an "AND" requirement for Genetics too.

"OR" links are by definition depicted through the arrows. It's the "requires" notes that depict "AND" stuff in Civ4, remember?
Well, the first 2 techtiers are mostly from Civ4, so you can complain at them. ;) Check your F6-screen in a game, Firaxis used the prereqs I used. This said, I agree with you and was thinking of using Superconductors as a requirement for Fusion.
On Genetics, again it is straight from the Civ4 techtree. I thought it was valid since genes (in laboratories) need to be stored at low temperatures and superconductors are a good tool for that? And yes, Low-G Biology can be an "AND" requirement for Genetics too.

Ahh, Now I see what you did. I guess we can start changing things when we start playtesting.;)

Ahh, Now I see what you did. I guess we can start changing things when we start playtesting.;)

So much effort for such little reward. :sad: ;)

So much effort for such little reward. :sad: ;)

I don't think he meant it like that Geo. ;) He's just trying to deflect attention from himself and his impending deadline... :p

Whenever you have some techs to send Geo I can try out matt's editor. They don't have to be perfect ATM.

Whenever you have some techs to send Geo I can try out matt's editor. They don't have to be perfect ATM.

You need more info then the info I put in the BtS write up+screenshot? Which info if so?

You need more info then the info I put in the BtS write up+screenshot? Which info if so?

:hmm: I guess I don't really know. I thought you said you planned on adding more. If not, that's cool too.

I won't have time to try the editor until monday though.

:hmm: I guess I don't really know. I thought you said you planned on adding more. If not, that's cool too.

Oh, What came next was the complete second era. Need to knit it together in Paint tho.

Editor in use right now...

Whenever you knit up the second era Geo send them my way.

edit 2 - I found my problem and it works fine matt. :thumbsup:

I'm making some cosmetic changes in the first era Geo. I'm adding a filler tier between 3 and 4 so that techs and their prereqs aren't in the same column. We need a few more techs by the looks. :D

Geo - Any objection to me moving Robotics to tier 3 and then having Lunar Industry in tier 4 (the start of Colonization)? That moves Power Economics, Vacuum Logistics and Orbital Reconnaissance back a tier, but keeps things flowing. Or Vacuum Log could require Lunar Medicine and Robotics instead of Lunar Med and Industry.

Go ahead. I created Vacuum Logistics mostly to have a starter tech for the military part. Lunar Industry can be the start for that line as well so the VL can even disappear if it clutters things up later on.

Sweet.

If you have your 2nd era written down I'd love them. They don't need to be in paint or have lines and boxes.

Ow, I need to go to the toilet. :rush:

Too much :coffee:?

Is Selenomics (from the paint jpg) supposed to be Seleponics (from the first post)?

Is Selenomics (from the paint jpg) supposed to be Seleponics (from the first post)?

Yes. It's just another name for agronomics.
Opening my files now. Hang on.

Under the assumption that Lunar Industry is now in the first tier of the Col era, here comes:

4th tier:
Vacuum Logistics (requires Lunar Medicine and Robotics)
Lunar Industry (OR arrow from Robotics and for the moment Optical Neural Networks)
Orbital Reconnaissance (OR arrows from Robotics and Optical Neural Networks, requires Selenogeophysics)
Chartra Selene (or arrow from Colonial Ethics)
Gene Manipulation (or arrow from Colonial Ethics)

5th tier:

Low-G tactics (OR arrow from Vacuum Logistics and Chartra Selene)
Power Economics (OR arrow from Lunar Industry or Chartra Selene)
Retroviral Engineering (OR arrow from Gene Manipulation, requires Chartra Selene)
Applied Astronomy (OR arrow from Chartra Selene and Lunar Industry)
Orbital Construction (requires Lunar Industry, OR arrow from Orbital Recon and let's say Chartra Selene)
High Energy Chemistry (requires Lunar Industry, OR arrow from Chartra Selene)
Bionics (OR arrow from Chartra Selene and Lunar Industry)

PS: I hope I'm still on the right track here, but have to do things partly out of my head with this Lunar Industry switch.

Looks good. I'm trying to avoid potential line crossing.

About the 5th tier....

7 techs is too much IMO as they stop lining up with their branches. I don't really want to scroll down the F6 screen like FfH2 does.

Once I get these into XML we'll need to balance them a bit better. I'm trying to adjust cost, add in Flavor, advisors, ect. But I'm sure they won't be perfect.

6th tier:

Plasma Mechanics (OR arrow from High Energy Chemistry and Applied Astronomy)
Lunar Corporations (OR arrow from Power Economics of course)
Artificial Biosphere (requires Retroviral Engineering, OR arrow from Lunar Industry)
Cislunar Doctrine (OR arrow from Low-G Tactics, perhaps should require High Energy Chemistry, perhaps only an OR arrow. Do an OR arrow for the moment)
Cybernetics (OR arrow from Bionics, requires Optical Neural Networks)
Metaphysical Cosmology (OR arrow from Applied Astronomy)

I think this should end the colonization era.

Did Fusion dead-end on purpose Geo? If so I can start sliding some techs back up the screen.

I've them printed out. Nice work. I'm going to turn 5 and 6 into 5, 6, and 7 after some careful planning. :)

About the 5th tier....

7 techs is too much IMO as they stop lining up with their branches. I don't really want to scroll down the F6 screen like FfH2 does.

Me neither. And I know from looking at the vanilla techtree that 8 techs can be put on a single screen, so seven should be okay.
What do you mean by stop lining up with their branches? The way I planned it there would be a number of core techs a player HAS to research before he crosses the next era. And it conveniently avoids a player rushing through the techtree at record speed. :p

Once I get these into XML we'll need to balance them a bit better. I'm trying to adjust cost, add in Flavor, advisors, ect. But I'm sure they won't be perfect.

Yeah, I recon techcost in general will be quite high because I hope to convince you guys to use a month/turn system. But population should be kept low as well then, save for the introduction of some sort of cloning population system.
I think, if both systems (month/turn and low population increase) are used, research will rely heavily on the proper construction of high-beaker facilities/improvements.

Did Fusion dead-end on purpose Geo? If so I can start sliding some techs back up the screen.

Fusion will be required for Microfusion. This comes in the 7th tier I think.
But Plasma Mechanics should be the OR link so I don't suppose a requirement is necessary.

Starting on the 7th tier now, but this will be the last since I wind up blank after this.

Once I get 5 and 6 into matt's editor I'll post the XMl file here. It stinks that we can't really look at it yet since we'll have a gazillion errors. :(

What do you mean by stop lining up with their branches? The way I planned it there would be a number of core techs a player HAS to research before he crosses the next era. And it conveniently avoids a player rushing through the techtree at record speed. :p

I mean that if an "or" or "and" tech is at the top of the screen I'd like the other "or" and "and" tech to be at the top as well. When the prereqs are far apart in the screen the entire screen looks like hell eventually.

I don't want beelining, just order. :)

7th tier (or 8th if you stretch things) - start of the Exploration Era.

Actually, I only have three/four left, and it seems Fusion as a requirement for microfusion will work as I didn't use it as a requirement for HEC :)

Translunar Exploration (obviously an OR arrow from Cislunar Doctrine)
Microfusion (requires Fusion, OR arrow from Plasma Mechanics)
Quantum Entanglement (OR arrow from Meta Cosmology and Plasma Mech)

I still have a tech named Radiation Shielding on my list, but Plasma Mechanics covers this already for what I had in mind (a shielded arcology). Especially since Lunar Industry moved up a tier.

There are obviously some things we can expand upon if a proper tech idea can be found, like on the Lunar Corp line (TransNationals or MetaCorps or something). Cybernetics can be the start of Artificial Intelligence (ah, you can include this one too!!). As on the Quantum stuff, I have to do a bit more research to see if wormhole stuff is already included in Quantum research or if it can be considered a separate field of research.

As on my remarks for a month/turn, perhaps it would be better a season/turn if we ever want a player to reach the nearest stars with his robot starprobes.

Okay, this is were I put a blank, except if we do a simple copy of the SMAC techtree at its highends. ;)

I mean that if an "or" or "and" tech is at the top of the screen I'd like the other "or" and "and" tech to be at the top as well. When the prereqs are far apart in the screen the entire screen looks like hell eventually.

I don't want beelining, just order. :)

Good thinking there, mate. :goodjob:

I think we have a good start for the more conventional stuff. I also hope we can avoid cluttering the tech tree with small-fry tech like Air-Recycling or Mech-Construction or whatever as those more involve exact procedures instead of general advances.

So long as you don't mind me changing stuff around we'll have order.

I'll wait with my verdict until I've seen your chances. :trouble:

Now, dishes -and cooking time. Enjoy your tinkering. ;)

I didn't end up tinkering much since I really need to see how it lays out in the F6 screen, but we can't do that right away.

Here (http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/32561/CIV4TechInfos.rar) are the first 2 eras in XML form. I did modify iasset and the stuff mentioned above, but booleans about techtrading, centering map, ect are left untouched.

At least with the TECH_XXXXXX tags complete we can start on civics, units, buildings, ect. I'll need to redo the leaders and civ XML now as well.

This XML is not commited to the SVN since I'm at work. If someone wants to then go right ahead.

And I have to come up with a Text file eventually. I was hoping the editor would create a text file for all of the TXT_KEYs, but it didn't. Even if it said "need text" for the tags it would be helpful to have that XML file generated.