Just fell in love with this, does any one else like it? Want to discuss strategy? I am still learning it - started on aggressive Chieftain.

yep, best BTS mod. but it need to be improved in few things ;) I will wait for patch :)

I only played the demo for now, since I don't have BtS yet, but really liked it.
I have the feeling that the scenarios are going quite far this time!

I only played the demo for now, since I don't have BtS yet, but really liked it.
I have the feeling that the scenarios are going quite far this time!I have played 3 - 2 I liked - Final frontier and Crossroads, and 1 I didn't like - The FFH one. I am probably going to play the 2 I liked again before I play any of the others. I might even go to multiplayer and see if I can find a FF game there. Not sure if it is MP though.

Yes, I too like this Mod very much.
I truly shows new heights on 'modability' (is that a word? ;) ) for Civ4.

But as MusX pointed out there are still a few kinks in there, e.g. the AI doesn't use any stealth ships, and is totally hapless when my Stealth ships wreck havoc on their supply lines, attack construction ships etc.

It also is quite passive when getting attacked; I recently knocked on a neighboring AI's door with my fleet and almost withdrew when I saw their amount of Anti-Ship missiles in the system. But then I thought, ah what the heck, let's try. Well, I took the system without them firing a single one of those missiles... And I don't think there's many strategies that could explain that as a good thing.


The other quite annoying thing are the constant sneak attacks of Barbarian ships somewhere on your supply routes. As tame as the opponents are on this (see above), the constant flood of Pirates forces you to secure and patrol each sector of your empire.
I would suggest adding a better visibility range to Scouts or Patrol ships, it would help to make it less tedious.

But again, the Mod is a GREAT start, and I can only begin to imagine what some Star Wars, Star Trek, Stargate, Battlestar Galactica, etc. fans could mod into it... :cheers:

Yes, I too like this Mod very much.
I truly shows new heights on 'modability' (is that a word? ;) ) for Civ4.

But as MusX pointed out there are still a few kinks in there, e.g. the AI doesn't use any stealth ships, and is totally hapless when my Stealth ships wreck havoc on their supply lines, attack construction ships etc.

It also is quite passive when getting attacked; I recently knocked on a neighboring AI's door with my fleet and almost withdrew when I saw their amount of Anti-Ship missiles in the system. But then I thought, ah what the heck, let's try. Well, I took the system without them firing a single one of those missiles... And I don't think there's many strategies that could explain that as a good thing.


The other quite annoying thing are the constant sneak attacks of Barbarian ships somewhere on your supply routes. As tame as the opponents are on this (see above), the constant flood of Pirates forces you to secure and patrol each sector of your empire.
I would suggest adding a better visibility range to Scouts or Patrol ships, it would help to make it less tedious.

But again, the Mod is a GREAT start, and I can only begin to imagine what some Star Wars, Star Trek, Stargate, Battlestar Galactica, etc. fans could mod into it... :cheers:In my current game I have had 2 scout ships attacked and destroyed by stealth ships - not sure if they are pirate or AI Civ tho because it doesn't tell you nationality.

I have played 3 - 2 I liked - Final frontier and Crossroads, and 1 I didn't like - The FFH one. I am probably going to play the 2 I liked again before I play any of the others. I might even go to multiplayer and see if I can find a FF game there. Not sure if it is MP though.I might try the Old Gods one though - it looks good.

I've heard afterworld is fun too.
Now I must get my hands on this thing :lol:

Still poking around in this mod - looks interesting, but there are some things that a manual would help with greatly.

A few questions:

1. What determines the cost involved with building duplicate buildings on additional planets? I noticed there appears to be an additional cost for building the same building more than once in a system, is there a way to find out what that cost is?

2. Is there a way to determine the potential productivity of a system before settling in it?

1. What determines the cost involved with building duplicate buildings on additional planets? I noticed there appears to be an additional cost for building the same building more than once in a system, is there a way to find out what that cost is?
Most Buildings cost increase parallels the number of Buildings already there. For example, if a Library costs 40 production, the second you build will be 80, the third will be 120, and so on. Some Buildings' cost ramps up more quickly though (Factories, Training Compounds and Manufacturing Plants). Theirs would rise twice as fast, e.g. 40, 120, 200.

2. Is there a way to determine the potential productivity of a system before settling in it?
Not right now, but it's something I'm adding for the next patch.

By the way, if anyone has any feedback on what to improve/fix please post in the thread in my signature so I can keep track of it all. :)

Jon

Still poking around in this mod - looks interesting, but there are some things that a manual would help with greatly.

A few questions:

1. What determines the cost involved with building duplicate buildings on additional planets? I noticed there appears to be an additional cost for building the same building more than once in a system, is there a way to find out what that cost is?

2. Is there a way to determine the potential productivity of a system before settling in it?


Both very good questions, I haven't even noticed the first one.

Jon Shafer posted somewhere on the productivity of a system, and that the sun's color should be telling, but that this part hadn't been documented yet.
I totally agree with you, right now it's a bit tedious to check each planet in a system and then try to compare it to another system.

The way I play it, which might be totally wrong..., is to take any available system, the closer the better. There's far less systems in FF than cities in 'normal' play, so you run out pretty fast in my experience...

reposted in the sticky thread

Both very good questions, I haven't even noticed the first one.

Jon Shafer posted somewhere on the productivity of a system, and that the sun's color should be telling, but that this part hadn't been documented yet.
I totally agree with, right now it's a bit tedious to check each planet in a system and then try to compare it to another system.

The way I play it, which might be totally wrong..., is to take any available system, the closer the better. There's far less systems in FF than cities in 'normal' play, so you run out pretty fast in my experience...

See this post (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=5740819&postcount=20) for a list of the various planet types.

I think they should publish Final Frontier as a full game and have scenarios included within it - also different types of maps - like a Galactic arm with a cluster of stars off it, etc. I have played the Galactic II game and I was bored - this does not bore me.

See this post (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=5740819&postcount=20) for a list of the various planet types.

Thx, I hadn't found this yet, cool.

I found a walkthrough (http://gaming.download-warehouse.org/civ/) that might be helpful. This was actually given to me by one of the interested parties in a Final Frontiers pbem (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=234501) that I am about to set up.

Right now we have 4 people to be made into 2 V 2. My only big interest is some sort of teams, so if more people wanted to join we could do a 3 V 3 or a 2 V 2 V 2, etc.

It is nice - and I hadn't yet figured out that planets were different. :)

Edited to add below text:

I'm really excited about the pbem I hope to start and would really like to have 3 or 4 two player teams rather than the 2 that are ready to go now. I'm going to start the game on 10 August, so there is plenty of time to join. Thank you for considering my pbem!

I love the leaderheads in this one, whoever did them did a great job.

I will consider the PBEM - other ones I played when Civ 4 first came out ended up bogging down due to people not taking turns properly.
On my current and first FF game - I just started the galactic UN wonder and was immediately attacked by 2 civs - however My side = myself, my Ally that I had a defense pact with and my Vassal against the 2. My Vassal is hopeless - 1 system, However my ally and myself are the number 1 and 2 most powerful and largest Civs in this game. Saved it at the beginning of the war - will play it out when more awake.

After having beaten the Charlemagne scenario (which was ok-ish) I decided to try this one. I can honestly say that I'm blown away! :eek:

Thank you Jon Shafer! The graphics of the systems and stellar objects is just amazing. I just find it very pleasing to play a game of Civilization that is nothing like I've played before. It blows Alpha Centauri out of the water in terms of believable technologies. :goodjob:

As an aside, did anyone else notice the little homage to Battlestar Galactica? In the Military Academies technology, the quote is attributed to a 'Admiral Aadesh Doma'. Nice.

Very nice mod! The graphics are great -- not just the leaders, but also the thingies that make warp lanes, the planets orbiting stars, the ships. Well done!

One question. I have oodles of resources around me, but none is anywhere close to any of my systems, even my most influential ones. Is there any way to grab resources other than expanding your influence over them? Can you build some sort of starbase on them?

Can you build some sort of starbase on them?

yup, your construction ships can turn into starbases with 150 credits and 8 turns

Very nice mod! The graphics are great -- not just the leaders, but also the thingies that make warp lanes, the planets orbiting stars, the ships. Well done!

One question. I have oodles of resources around me, but none is anywhere close to any of my systems, even my most influential ones. Is there any way to grab resources other than expanding your influence over them? Can you build some sort of starbase on them?
Yes, that's the idea. You have to build a starbase (costs 150 credits, provides a cultural border of it's own) near the resource, so that your influence encompasses it, before you can build an extraction facility to get at the resource.

I think to some degree its a little better than the main Civ 4 game. Especially for multiplayer. It's not confusing like Fall From Heaven. It has about the perfect number of units, sweet graphics, tech trees and civics that are easy to understand. By far the best Civ 4 mod I have ever played in any of the games.

Starbase like structures are one of the things that the main game really needs (or bring back colonies from civ 3).

If any of you guys want to get in some multiplayer I have a few friends that would like to get in on a game.

I love this mod but it needs more work! Id like to see the start of the game sped up a little as very little happens in the beginning and it doesn't get good till 100+ turns.

I love this mod but it needs more work! Id like to see the start of the game sped up a little as very little happens in the beginning and it doesn't get good till 100+ turns.

untrue
I played the demo, and it's only 100 turns, and it was good already :)
(already had a starbase, which already had produced a antiship missile, was already on a conquest mood, but didn't have time to do it totally).

One thing I don't understand is the absence of resources in star systems.

wait till you get the full version its great don't get me wrong but could use a some tweeks.

I love FF. Just needs so fixing. Unable to queue buildings on different planets :/ They need to change the way that stuff works. And tech happens fast as hell.

Afterworld is a good concept mod. Someone should make a good mod out of it heh. Also this would be a great multiplayer mod, sadly it's only single player :(

untrue
I played the demo, and it's only 100 turns, and it was good already :)
(already had a starbase, which already had produced a antiship missile, was already on a conquest mood, but didn't have time to do it totally).


You wait till you have 5+ starbases, 30+ missiles (none of them below Delta models), and 2-3 battleships (including Delta- and Omega- models) defending every system :-D, plus more capital ships supporting your starbases, and destroyers all over the place.

Though I do find that there is a lack of things for workers to do - all resources are visible at the start, and there is practically nothing for them to do but build starbases and connect resources (which are immensely scarce), so...

You wait till you have 5+ starbases, 30+ missiles (none of them below Delta models), and 2-3 battleships (including Delta- and Omega- models) defending every system :-D, plus more capital ships supporting your starbases, and destroyers all over the place.

Though I do find that there is a lack of things for workers to do - all resources are visible at the start, and there is practically nothing for them to do but build starbases and connect resources (which are immensely scarce), so...
I set things to dense and ended up in my second game - with my home planet set between 3 asteroid belts the one one the right had 3 resources the one below was small and had 1 and the one to the left was huge and had 7 resources. I mass produced construction ships and had all the resources there under my control very shortly. I am early in the game and there are more resources nearby - if the Halis do not beat me to them.

Hi guys,
Just wanted to chime in to say I love this mod. Very nicely done.
I love the slow pace, although the health and happiness caps are very low (prince level). Nothing much is happening, suits me fine. I have time to learn the ropes and develop my little empire.

Does anyone else experience the same pace, or is it just me ? There's been absolutely no wars since the beginning, everyone else is just developping quietly and connecting systems. Some capital ships are around, but I can't see anyone gearing for war. (default setup all teh way, large map, 8 civs).
It reminds me a lot of Millenium 2.2 back in the Amiga days.
Anyway : Great mod :goodjob:
Looking forward to the patch to fix some of the minor annoyances.

PS : 100th post, yay !

I think to some degree its a little better than the main Civ 4 game. Especially for multiplayer. It's not confusing like Fall From Heaven. It has about the perfect number of units, sweet graphics, tech trees and civics that are easy to understand. By far the best Civ 4 mod I have ever played in any of the games.

Starbase like structures are one of the things that the main game really needs (or bring back colonies from civ 3).

If any of you guys want to get in some multiplayer I have a few friends that would like to get in on a game.

What sort of time frame we talking for a multiplayer thing??? My friends and I would love to join in however I am east coast US, one is close but works evenings until after midnight our time and the other I am not certain about.

:scan: Are there any patches planned for FF that would add new Civs and leaders along with new units and UU's/UB's????:scan:

This Mod Rules!
Also the Shock and awe technology has a picture of Donald Rumsfeld. :D

This Mod Rules!
Also the Shock and awe technology has a picture of Donald Rumsfeld. :D

:scan: :scan: This Mod does Rule, But it needs a bit of work.:scan: :scan:

:scan: :scan: This Mod does Rule, But it needs a bit of work.:scan: :scan:

The AI isn't very good. and the leaderhead graphics were terrible:(
Hope they realese a patch soon.

The AI isn't very good. and the leaderhead graphics were terrible:(
Hope they realese a patch soon.

I hope that they include more units and buildings and add in UU's and UB's in addition to the AI and Graphics

Has anyone noticed that starbases get more expensive,
Is it a bug or not:confused:

Pretty sure Starbases are supposed to get more expensive.
It makes sense that as you research new techs the cost would go up for the stuff.

I assume the Leaderheads are by design, since they are very similar to the holo-communication systems in the Star Wars movies.

Head on over to Jon's thread (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=234998) and let him know what you like and don't like.
But please, be specific like he suggests. (It 's also a pet peeve of mine)
Don't say "The AI sucks" Something more along the lines of: "The AI does not appear to use stealth ships very well, if at all. It also seems to build too many battleships."

As for new units and buildings, they are easy to add.
I've added over 30 buildings and more than doubled the tech tree in my mod. (shameless plug) And added a bunch of promotions.
Except for the Python fixes (and mods to a couple buildings) It's all XML (http://civ4wiki.com/wiki/index.php/XML_files) which you can easily do.

The starbases probably get more expensive due to Inflation.

I played my first game on Normal speed so I could breeze through and get a hang of the sweep of gameplay, and I thought the techs not revealing their quotes (and thus story) until you research them a nice touch. I did notice tech advancement is ridiculously fast on Normal... maybe it's just because I've played on epic so long, but I found that you can't ever get a :hammers:-focused military city built up full factory +mine production before the game ends (I was still trying to get full production and experience-boosting buildings by the time I reached ascendence). I'm used to building the buildings first, then units in regular Civ, so I'm still figuring out how to adapt to that.

... maybe it's just because I've played on epic so long, but I found that you can't ever get a :hammer:-focused military city built up full factory +mine production before the game ends (I was still trying to get full production and experience-boosting buildings by the time I reached ascendence). I'm used to building the buildings first, then units in regular Civ, so I'm still figuring out how to adapt to that.
Since you can build a building on each planet it's easy to lock yourself into empire building and neglect your military :) (Nevermind the passive AI making a military relatively unimportant)

Being more of a warmonger myself I tend to split production between units & improvements almost equally in systems that have even a halfway decent production rate. As a result I tend to start my invasion of my nearest neighbor before turn 50, they'll be out of the game and I'll be moving onto the next target by turn 100. Once I have a few strong production centers churning out military at a regular pace I start specializing other systems towards commerce.

Don't worry about falling behind in technology, most of it does no good without a military anyway. Given enough missiles and fighters you can kill an Omega Battleship rather easily, so quantity can keep up with quality in this mod. In some 2-player games I've found that while I lag behind slightly in tech I am considerably more powerful, enough to compensate for using lower tech units.

I realized after reading several other threads part of the reason I never could get my military city up to speed was the extremely fast rate of research advancement... with the slower tech speed he's adding in the next patch it should be more smoothly balanced between producing buildings and researching new types of buildings.

If you don't want to wait it's pretty easy to impliment a quick fix that has very good results, I've been running a modified version since I won my first game of FF :)

Just copy CIV4GameSpeedInfo.xml from the BTS assests into your final frontier assests/xml/gameinfo folder (or, preferably a duplicate of the FF mod folder with your own name and appropraitely edited ini file). Anyway, in that file you'll see some modifiers for the various game speeds and you can adjust them as needed. To slow down the tech rate you just need to find the following value and increase it:

<iResearchPercent>xxx</iResearchPercent>

'xxx' will be different depending on the game speed, marathon for example has a default of 300. By increasing the value for all speeds by 30% the flow through the tech tree is at a much better pace (for me anyway). If, like me you want to also see more ships in space you can change iTrainPercent while you're in there. I dropped that by 10% for all speeds and for my own tastes it works much better as I can build more ships between technology breakthroughs that render my entire fleet obsolete. iTrainPercent only affects unit production, not buildings or tile improvements.

Has anyone thought of making a "Spy" equivilent for this mod???

Stealth ship works effectively as a spy (although NOT "espionage" as it has been introduced (reintroduced? in BtS)

WINNING key is having stealth ships start destroying warp lanes/roads and construction ships in a civ you are preparing to attack to limit the AI's ability to move to defend it's planets

I mean a spy-like unit that can perform espionage missions.

apparently that's not part of this game but come to think about it...

in the future years that we're playing in FF, perhaps modern technology surpasses currently defined existing "espionage" activities?

or perhaps not.

no matter - it's a fun game FULL of different strategies and tactics

apparently that's not part of this game but come to think about it...

in the future years that we're playing in FF, perhaps modern technology surpasses currently defined existing "espionage" activities?

or perhaps not.

no matter - it's a fun game FULL of different strategies and tactics

There is no substitute for Human intelligence, and a robot can't carry out sabotage missions because they don't think like humans.

There is no substitute for Human intelligence, and a robot can't carry out sabotage missions because they don't think like humans.

I haven't ever considered the stealth ship as a robot, but more like a ship with a "cloaking" device

Indeed, with later techs, you can create/upgrade units that can SEE the stealth ship

I also don't think of it as robotic when I control it's actions

If your referring to the AI's unit as "robot" then try playing at a higher difficulty setting and watch their "robots" come do to you what you are doing to them

My point is, you can use the stealth ship in MOST the same ways as you can the current espionage units introduced in BtS - destroying infrastructure, disrupting "roads," destroying resources, and catching other stealth ships from other civs (with the proper upgrade).

In fact, you can use it for all the same things as the current espionage units in BtS with the exception stealing a tech (you don't have to steal them in FF, they are all easy to get), disrupting/changing your opponent's government civics (which most people in MP BtS believe is too strong and doesn't make sense), and stealing your opponent's gold in the treasury (no gold in FF, only "credits" as most sci-fi future movies/books, etc portray the future - money is no longer "value")

Are there any mods/extentions to this cool mod. This is the best civ mod ever, and I wish there would much more to explore in Final Frontier universe. It seems nobody is interested to make a huge Final Frontier mod, making it similar to the games such as Galactic civs or Space Empires V.

I haven't been able to find the mod.

I haven't been able to find the mod.

Use the "Beyond the Sword content" menu option when starting a new game. This will let you access the BtS scenarios and mods.

Has anyone come up with a fully thought-out adaption for this mod???

Strategy for winning at Diety/Marathon
========================

I played The Brotherhood (charismatic), though the civ with +trade might work as well.
Playing at deity means usually some form of militaristic strategy and that sort of applied here.

I played a Tiny map with all the other AI civs.

Macromanagement
============
1. Never build any construction ships or colonies.
(You conquer cities and construction ships).
2. My capital city was my wealth city building only wealth improvement buildings after awhile.
3. All other cities were military cities - my strongest building the most expensive units, one dedicated squadron producer, etc.
4. Build starbases ASAP.
This requires researching the techs for construction ships and starbases, so that may take awhile at Marathon. Though i think i researched the tech for Destroyers first, as this was necessary for
5. Until you build starbases, always keep research such that you have positive income.
The starbases costs around 180 credits.
6. Build warp lanes (i.e roads) between your cities asap, for trade $$.

Military Strategy
==========
1. Build invasion ships at the start - one medic (which lasted me til game victory) and the other city attacker promotions, etc.
2. Initially use the invasion ships as scouts (don't bother researching the tech for them immediately nor ever building any scouts). Try to get as much loot as possible. (Credits, techs, promotions).
3. Conquer the one or two closest cities (or three). As soon as you have the techs for starbases (and hopfully built up the req. credits), build starbases (on asteroids if possible for defence bonus) to optimize access to resources.
(At marathon it can take 23 turns to produce a starbase, so start building them first, then the roads).
NOTE: this was the only time in the game that i switched to a build mode (and non military expansion). If i did war with the other civs, it was to hijack their construction ships and to prevent them from building starbases nearby. (It only takes the AI about 6 turns, which hardly seems fair :-(
4. Use your (well positioned) starbases to conduct your military attacks from.
They have heal II, as well as the ability to host up to 4 squadrons. Position bombers and fighters in your starbase and pummell them enemy!!
5. Take vassels where possible. Then build warp lanes and reap the trade benefits.
6. Most importantly, during the Starbase building phase, i built as many stealth ships as i could.
I used these throughout the game to destroy other construction ships, pillage warp lanes (all of them :-) and pillage improvements (for Credits and to disallow the AI civs from using resources). You really need to keep up with this in order to beat the civs at Deity.

Notes on my gameplay:
I won a Domination victory by 2340AD.
I had 3 vassels civs at the end.
Interestingly, i ended up being way behind on research - for most of the mid-late game, i was at around 20% or less.

Gentlemen:

Good afternoon from Canada!!! I hope this finds you and yours well. As for me, I could complain...yadda, yadda, yadda.

This is the mod that made me start to explore sci-fi RTS games. I now own two in this genre and am looking for more. The two are: Sins of a Solar Empire and Galactic Civilizations II. These both come from a company called Stardock.

I cannot stop singing the praises of this mod, but I do have a question about the in game leadership ratings. If I'm at the top of the list, which I am right at the moment, why does the game tell me I have all the leadership ability of Dan Quayle? What in the name of all that's holy am I doing to deserve this?

Secondly, Elderotter, this is Indy. You can easily find out who owns what just by putting your mouse cursor over the ship in question. Another way to find out is by the list of players at the right hand side of the screen. The names are in different colours. All one needs to do is match the name colour to the flashings on the ship in question. These are those little narrow parts on the ship halfway between the stern and nose of said ship. You have to look really close.

I hope this helps!!

Live long and prosper, take care and thank you kindly!!!!

Sincerely yours always,

Indy.

Gentlemen:

Good afternoon from Canada!!! I hope this finds you and yours well. As for me, I could complain...yadda, yadda, yadda.

I cannot stop singing the praises of this mod, but I do have a question about the in game leadership ratings. If I'm at the top of the list, which I am right at the moment, why does the game tell me I have all the leadership ability of Dan Quayle? What in the name of all that's holy am I doing to deserve this?

The leadership rankings are based on your score at the end of the game. A successful win with a high score well before the "end of time" will give you a higher rating. Relatively low scores are common in the early game, and if you merely retire you won't be highly ranked.


Secondly, Elderotter, this is Indy. You can easily find out who owns what just by putting your mouse cursor over the ship in question. Another way to find out is by the list of players at the right hand side of the screen. The names are in different colours. All one needs to do is match the name colour to the flashings on the ship in question. These are those little narrow parts on the ship halfway between the stern and nose of said ship. You have to look really close.

Stealth ships (and Privateers in the regular game) won't be identifiable as they have hidden nationality. They appear as barbarians, which is not much help for identifying who uses them.

They can be identified (when running the patches) if they attack from a city, as they lose their hidden nationality while in port. This protects them from being attacked as "pirates" while in a city, and allows them to heal up. It can be a good defense strategy to pick off "friendly" units passing by, though the AI doesn't often have scouts to spot stealth ships.

The combat log is another place to track combat results during the turn, but even there hidden nationality units won't be identified.

Gentlemen:

Good morning from Canada!! I hope this finds you and yours well. As for me, I really can't complain...yadda ,yadda, yadda.

For openers, thank you, Inky, for the heads up. In space, you practically need a scorecard to tell who is whom.

Secondly, what are the victory conditions for Final Frontier? I wish to escape the shadow of Dan Quayle so badly that I can taste it!!!!

Finally, one last comment. Could somebody PLEASE make this mod into a full fledged game? If there's a mod that deserves this more, I don't know what it would be!!! :please:

Live long and prosper, take care and thank you kindly!!!

Sincerely yours always,

Indy.

Why can't I colonize a sytem that is unclaimed? Do I need a greater influence, or something? Sometimes (rarely) I just pull up and plant the colonists and other times I can't even enter the system. I tried using a fleet of ships to attack and the same thing happens. There is a blue circle indicating that I should go there. What gives? I have looked at the walkthrough BTW. The example given shows no difficulties in colonizing planets.

I'm downloading the patch at the moment.

Thanks all.