I loved this mod, but specially because of it's potential. I thought it would be useful to have a thread where we could put suggestions for official/fan modders who want to work on Final Frontier :)

Build queue: I like the idea of being able to build imps in each planet, but it just gets too tedious having to select planet, click the build checkbox, then building, wait till it's complete, zoom in colony and do it all over again.
Instead, I thought of 2 things:
1) there are buildings like the Factory that apply global bonuses, so instead of having to select on which planet they have to be built and build them one by one you could just stack as many factories in the build queue as planets are available to you in the system.
2) Then there are buildings like the mining platform that apply bonuses only to the planet it's built on. For this you could be able to stack in the build queue as many of them as planets are available, and when they are finished have them placed automatically on the most populated planet that doesn't already have one (where the building will be more beneficial). In the case of the Habitation Dome, have them placed on the planet with highest :food: :hammers: :commerce:

Starbases and Culture: I think the way starbase culture and normal culture borders interact needs work. For example, one of my starbases in my latest game ended up inside enemy territory because of his borders' expansion.
I think a solution would be to have Starbases expand culture only 1 plot (instead of 2 plots) but that the borders around the starbase are unmodifiable by other player's cultural expansion, forcing them to eliminate the starbase (and declare war) if they want to gain control of that territory.

Conquering systems: it would be cool IMHO that the only way to actually conquer an enemy system would be to drop troops in it, having spaceships be unable to attack troops or conquer systems (like the gunship in regular civ). Any spaceships that are in the system when troops conquer it are expelled from the tile.

Conquering starbases: I thought it would be also nice to be able to drop troops into a starbase and conquer it, as an alternative to blowing it up. Starbases could house up to 2 troopers in case an enemy tries this. Any spaceships that are in the same tile as the starbase when troops take control of it are expelled from the tile.

Each trooper could have a % chance of being shot down by starbase/system defenses before landing for combat.

Starbase missiles: missiles should be able to rebase between starbases or not rebase at all. Also, starbases should have a maximum of missiles that they can carry.

Other functionalities for Starbases: yeah, maybe they could start of as simple space platforms that spread culture in that one tile. Then with certain technologies they could be upgraded into millitary platforms (like the actual starbase) where you can build a squadron base (to house squadrons), a missile battery (that produces missiles), etc., or upgrade them into a research platform (creates a resource that gives +:science:) or vacation center (creates a resource that gives +:) ). So as to not unbalance things, bonus platforms could be very expensive to build (like starbases are now) and each type of bonus platform could serve as a resource, meaning that more than one does not give extra bonuses, but can be traded with other players.
Also, you could have certain platforms only buildable on asteroid fields...

Training yards: I just think training yards should give global bonuses to the system, only 1 per system, instead of 1 per planet like it is now.

Exploring systems: it would be nice to be able to view a system's planets before colonizing.

Civics: Monarchy should have it's bonuses, I think, reduced since this is usually a game with very very few systems in it.

Resources: just add more! :p

The only gripe I have about final frontier is the movement. I find it takes me forever to reach an allied(or enemy) system until jump lanes. I don't think warp lanes help much either, things I find are still slow even with them. So I would adjust the base movement of some of the ships (maybe not battleships because that'd be too overpowered) to 2.

The only other issue I can think of is constructing buildings on various planets. It's very tedious (though I like the feature). I would rather get rid of the check boxes that say that a building will be constructed on it, and just be able to click on the planet, then queue buildings. EDIT - Also, this would make it so buildings could be queued for multiple planets rather than having to wait for a building to finish, check the planet you want, then queue.

The cultural borders needs to be bigger. Say instead of it expanding 1 tile per stage. Make it so it expands 2 or 3 tiles per stage. That way, influences can actually cover my entire empire and actually be used to flip nearby star systems.

Also, anyone find it ridiculous that it takes you years to move a starship from one star system to another. But fighter squads and missiles can instant rebase? The rebase feature needs to be removed. Or allow Stargate improvements which lets you rebase.

I really like the idea of troops needed to invade planets.

Speaking of suggestions, is there any chance that future patches will fix up the BtS mods as well as the main game? Or are these ultimately suggestions for community modders to implement?

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=234998

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=234998

There's a difference between "problems and issues" and "suggestions." We're not trying to point out problems in the mod, rather *suggest* what could be done to
improve it. Things like game play fluency, features that would add depth, that sort of thing...

I suggest that planets could yeld some resources.
Isn't it a bit silly that you have to build a starbase to get oxygen???

I suggest that planets could yeld some resources.
Isn't it a bit silly that you have to build a starbase to get oxygen???That's a great idea. Ofcourse, then it would be absolutely necessary to be able to examine a system before colonizing it.
And yes, the Oxigen resource is kinda off. In any case you could have some planets have oxigen (+:health: ) and not others (+:yuck: ) in which you should have to build a dome of some kind before being able to put population into it.

Unique buildings/units!!!

Low on the list, I suppose, but I would love some events.

There's a difference between "problems and issues" and "suggestions." We're not trying to point out problems in the mod, rather *suggest* what could be done to
improve it. Things like game play fluency, features that would add depth, that sort of thing...



Speaking of suggestions, is there any chance that future patches will fix up the BtS mods as well as the main game? Or are these ultimately suggestions for community modders to implement?

I was giving a link in response to this question. If you go to the thread by Jon you will see he is trying to do exactly this.

Sorry I didn't make that clear. But we can be pretty sure that the mods are now 'feature-locked'?

Conquering systems: it would be cool IMHO that the only way to actually conquer an enemy system would be to drop troops in it, having spaceships be unable to attack troops or conquer systems (like the gunship in regular civ). Any spaceships that are in the system when troops conquer it are expelled from the tile.


How about infantry being 0 move units that are invisible to everything but infantry AND enemy spaceships can occupy your cities once they defeated your defending units? Space ship production would be disabled for blockaded systems in this case.

You would need to transport infantry or other 'land units' to enemy systems to gain control. This system is similar to the more complex RTS space games like Star Wars Empire at War or a game I haven't played.

Orbital Strike capabilities could be factored in as negative strength promotions depending on the amount of enemy ships on the city tile.

Should make system defense little more complex in a good way - re-introducing transports into the game.

Sorry I didn't make that clear. But we can be pretty sure that the mods are now 'feature-locked'?
Yeah, I'm afraid that the actual 'development' for Final Frontier is completed. I won't be adding or changing things unless there's a pretty big problem (e.g. I'm trying to make the AI less stupid ;)). There are a lot of cool ideas out there (ground troops, events, unique units/buildings, special resources, etc.) but there's only so much time to do things, and I have to begin my next "secret project" soon. ;) I encourage people to continue posting suggestions though, as I know there's a lot of interest in modding Final Frontier, so it could provide some cool ideas for those interested in taking things over from here.

Thanks again for everyone's interest, and if you had even a few minutes of fun with Final Frontier in an expansion as big as BTS I've done my job. :)

Jon

Few minutes...? He´s talking about a few minutes, when I´m stuck in this game for hours and hours just because it is so addicting... I would have payed those 30€ even only for Final Frontier. You should be proud of this kind of creation, it is one of the best civ mods ever!

heh... a few minutes... yeah, only a few minutes... :mischief: I don't know why I put the clock feature on, it always seems like the clock is going too fast so I end up ignoring it...
Congrats Jon, Final Frontier is an excellent mod, but specially an excellent doorway into a whole new possibility for civ.
I can imagine that going into more depth for each mod released in BTS is impossible, not to mention risky. I think now it's the fans' turn to put the tools you gave us to use (not very many games/companies are this mod-friendly).
And since I can't code, I suggest :p
sugestio ergo zum

I Like FF and the concepts and potential it puts out, but I would like to see some new things in some user-made patches.

Things like some new ship and squadron units, UU's, UB's, More civs and leaders, and an improved movements system so ships con move quicker in open space and your own territory.

I understand that these things are already being talked about, so if anyone would like to discuss these things, i am willing, also, if anyone is going to modifiy FF (or if you know anybody that is going to try), please let me give my ideas and imput.

First of all : Great mod ! :goodjob:
I won't compare it to the others because I haven't played them all (Hell, I haven't even played the epic game yet!) and because, well, RFC is in it...
But let's just say it's the one I've spent the most time on.

My 2c : Why not an improved ion drive or whatever to give +1:move: , but only to light ships ? (and make it available right away for the scouts, maybe ?)
Warp gates between systems would be cool too.

There's also something weird with the values. It's either everybody has survival, or everyone has a different one. Maybe less emphasis on the diplo issues, or a different spread system ? I know it's vague, but I can't really put my finger on the problem. (maybe there is no problem after all ?)

Thanks Jon for this wonderful mod.

warp lanes sooner would be nicer

I enjoyed this mod a lot.


Only gripe that really bothered me was the constant PIRATE presence. Every turn in late game I had multiple pirates to dispatch... it was a micromanagement I could have done without. If Starbases or fighter squadrons could be set to auto-attack pirates then it wouldnt be such an issue.

Seriously though I was amazed at what Jon did with the civ4 engine. I was a huge fan of Master of Orion series.... (pretty unhappy with #3 though) and this mod really puts the civ4 game into that field. Congrats on a solid success. Its not perfect but it will keep me busy many nights....

I'm curious to see now what the mod community can do with it. :)

I had some ideas for modding this mod.

Give the player 2 scouts at the start to make it easier to explore and more free techs. As it is now, you are basically just hitting the next turn button for the first 50 or so turns and not really doing much which is boring. If they start with the exploration tech, give them a colony ship too.

I'd also make the scouts faster, giving them 2 moves instead of one. I'd also give each star system double the health and happiness limit. The initial pop limit seems a bit low too.

Another thing that would speed it up is to make all buildings automatically mirror to all the planets in a system once it is built. This would save a lot of turns you would normally spend on building the same thing over and over.

It might not be possible but it would be better if each planet had it's own build queue instead of sharing the queue with the other planets in the same system.

There should be something you build that prevents pirates from entering your influence areas like the Great Wall does against barbs. I think more wonders in general would be nice.

I think I would have personally enjoyed this mod more if it was focused on individual planets rather than entire systems. I know that makes for a massive game, but if it could be managed, I think it would add more depth.

~S~

Obivously everyone wants a different version of this, so it is made pretty basic, so it´s easy for modders to do their magic and make it the way they want. I don´t think there is any point for Firaxis to improve this anymore, but leave the development on the modders.

Another thing to add more variety and avoid the "everyone with the same "religion"" thing: make values have different effects. Since they are not real world religions, noone should be offended, right? For example: every system where survivalism has spreaded gains +1 food if survivalism is your official value, something along these lines.

Another thing to add more variety and avoid the "everyone with the same "religion"" thing: make values have different effects. Since they are not real world religions, noone should be offended, right? For example: every system where survivalism has spreaded gains +1 food if survivalism is your official value, something along these lines.
It's already so!

I had some ideas for modding this mod.

Give the player 2 scouts at the start to make it easier to explore and more free techs. As it is now, you are basically just hitting the next turn button for the first 50 or so turns and not really doing much which is boring. If they start with the exploration tech, give them a colony ship too.

I'd also make the scouts faster, giving them 2 moves instead of one. I'd also give each star system double the health and happiness limit. The initial pop limit seems a bit low too.

Another thing that would speed it up is to make all buildings automatically mirror to all the planets in a system once it is built. This would save a lot of turns you would normally spend on building the same thing over and over.

It might not be possible but it would be better if each planet had it's own build queue instead of sharing the queue with the other planets in the same system.

There should be something you build that prevents pirates from entering your influence areas like the Great Wall does against barbs. I think more wonders in general would be nice.

Alright. But I don't like the "all buildings automatically mirror to all the planets in a system once it is built. This would save a lot of turns you would normally spend on building the same thing over and over." part. how about including a build limit on each planet.

Realistic systems - stars with no planets, uninhabitable planets (!!)
Realistically spaced features - if systems were really that close, they'd tear each other apart!

The systems are only actually within the tile you can settle, the orbits are basically just graphical representations for our benefit. I've toyed with the idea of shrinking the system graphics to fit them in the 1 tile, but for now, there's no sense nitpicking, as far as I'm concerned.

Uninhabitable planets and stars with no planets are very much possible and easy mods to do, with a bit of Python work.

I'd really like to see someone do a map/scenario, based on the constellations. Since it seems a nice globular map I think the constellations should be backwards as if we are outside the "globe" in relation to the location of earth. With the civs named after the constellation they inhabit or some could be named as such with others having corporation type names. (I don't like the forge nor it's system names, Geotech Mining seems a reasonable alternative)

I'd also like to see more variety in resources with as someone else mentioned a bit less bonus per resource.

How about some way to clear those radiation clouds once you learn a certain tech with them also appearing randomly and possibly moving slowly across the map.

Oh and Jon I was disappointed in Warlords, just not enough content in my view. However I believe I am perfectly happy with BTS and would be so if FF was the only mod/scenario included. In fact I played the FF demo and wanted to go right then and there and buy BTS. Having only one auto and the wife being at work with said auto I had to wait. I showed the demo to a friend who went right out and bought BTS and he showed it to a friend who did the same. My son who has never touched the game is thinking seriously about getting it because of this mod as well.

THANK YOU SIR!!

Overall, this is a great mod. My main suggestion is to rebalance the factions. Many aren't worth playing whatsoever. In my experience, I can't imagine why anyone would play as any other faction than the Red Syndicate.

I think the first thing that needs to be added is unique units/buildings. The only difference between civs is a thin backstory.

Second, the mod is beautiful, but it just didn't jump out at me as being entertaining or unique. It's just kind of an elaborate skin, with the exception of separate planets in each system, and I don't see the point of having multiple planets. It's just more complicated micro-management.

I've only played it for maybe 20 turns, so forgive me if I'm off on some of this stuff. It was just my first impression.

Several things need to be changed to add to the VASTNESS of interstellar space. The space in between stars needs to be like 10 times what it is now. There should be moving stellar storms and crap like that.

There should be automated pickets, which can be set up on auto to scout around the stars.

Travelling between the stars should be a very tedious and lengthy thing. And pirates should be very common, but rather unlikely to attack actual stars.

SPACE IS HUGE! the mod should reflect that.

Trying to model realistic space in a game is stupid.I prefer abstract fun.

Several things need to be changed to add to the VASTNESS of interstellar space. The space in between stars needs to be like 10 times what it is now. There should be moving stellar storms and crap like that.

There should be automated pickets, which can be set up on auto to scout around the stars.

Travelling between the stars should be a very tedious and lengthy thing. And pirates should be very common, but rather unlikely to attack actual stars.

SPACE IS HUGE! the mod should reflect that.

I don't know if that's possible given the scope of the mod and the limitations of the game engine.

I like way MOO2 handles the vastness of space. It doesn't try to put all the stars and planets on one graphical map. MOO2 just has a zoom able star map. The distance between stars varies depending on the size of the map and the number of stars generated. Planets rotating around their stars only appears in a pop-up window. Ships don't just fly aimlessly around in interstellar space, they fly from star to star. You also get speed enhancing tech options. Ships are only limited to the range of the fuel cells on board. It's much more realistic that way I think.

Well yes obviously, this is a turn based game of course you can't "realistically" model space. I just find the map far too small.

Also get rid of this roads thing, i don't like it, it ruins the space feel of the game.

Also get rid of this roads thing, i don't like it, it ruins the space feel of the game.

I totally agree. The idea of space lanes is just silly. That's like trying to build roads on the ocean. It would be much more realistic just to get more powerful engines on the ships or maybe a gateway system that enables instant transport from star system to star system.

I don't know if that's possible given the scope of the mod and the limitations of the game engine.

I like way MOO2 handles the vastness of space. It doesn't try to put all the stars and planets on one graphical map. MOO2 just has a zoom able star map. The distance between stars varies depending on the size of the map and the number of stars generated. Planets rotating around their stars only appears in a pop-up window. Ships don't just fly aimlessly around in interstellar space, they fly from star to star. You also get speed enhancing tech options. Ships are only limited to the range of the fuel cells on board. It's much more realistic that way I think.

Ya, something more along the lines of moo

Yes i understand that the engine is limited in this aspect. But is there an actual size limitation to the map? It would mostly be barren in my idea, empty space, but it would make fleets appear pretty much out of the blue.

I don't want millions of units and stuff like that, just numerous automated scripted things. And instead of building individual units you would build fleets. Heh, perhaps make it more like WH40k space.

The key thing to remember is to limit micromanagement. Especially in the building menus.

My Suggestions are the following

-We need more technology, technology that allows us to use future improvements and be able to walk though the nebula and other minors things except the powerful supernova and black hole.

-We need improvements that help us out both offensive and defensive, I like to see Free Trading system to improve Wealth, Mining Ore Alpha, Beta, and Gamma station that will improve on the radius and amount of turns it takes to improve the mining stations and other improvements, I like to see Wheat farm bases to provide food, and computer part factory set up like workshop.

-We need new music files, the original is too boring and not really good, we need some new music to add on there, we can borrow some sound files from both EVE Online and X3: reunion.

-I like to see more missiles (swarm Missle, EMP Missle, Hornet Missle, Proton Tropedos, etc), and give them promotions that could do better damage on the missiles that can do better damage and range. I also like to see regular fighter ships in size stages (S, M, L), I also like to see some new Cruisers and Destroyers.

-Remove the Warp Lines and the other one too, instead replace them with dash marks, and called them "Space Routes", I am also thinking of adding Warp Gates to teleport to one section to another like a rebase function that also allow to link trade routes to any other places that are too far away from the radius of the solar systems. These warpgates are also useful for your units and other units like your allies to be able to use them to teleport to one place to another.

-I have not occurred any events in this mod what so ever, so I think the events in this mod is broken and the espionage is broken too cause i can't so any good spy options. So we need to find a way to make these events to be realistic in the space environment and also add in a different spy unit that don't act like a privateer.

Alright, I'm glad this thread got some attention, coz I'm hoping many mods come out of Final Frontier!
A lot of great ideas out there too. Regarding planets apperaing on the map, I think it's very cool seeing mini-satelites revolve around your system's planets, or the capital shipyard's orbit around the star... but it is kinda misleading, since it makes me think how come I have to go all the way to the center of the system to battle it out around the star, when I could just pillage one of the unguarded planets that orbit around it... :p

I think it'd be neat if a planets moons or rings made a difference other then cosmetics.

Even something as simple as moon(s) = +1 resource, rings = +1 commerce and neither = +1 food would be neat.

How about making space corporations???

As far as suggestions:

1. The graphics for the planets should mean something as to their value. And that value should be communicated. It looks like Gas Giants are 0/2/5 but it ain't clear.

2. Spies/Recon Drones/Merc Droids you get the idea. We need 'em and BTS can use them.

3. Planets should require a Landing Party to capture. At least one per population. As balance any occupied system makes half the production & credits.

4. All ship advancements should be tied to technology. Maybe having those Advancements available on all new ships but for a retrofit ($) cost as a balancing tool.

5. And either Capital Ships or a Death Beam tech should be required to Pillage systems...

^^

1. Color tells you planet stats, size tells you pop. Rings and moons do not matter. I wonder if star color indicates planets.

2. Stealth ships served all those purposes (with promotions available). Stealth will cost more after the patch...

3. Landing party 1 per would be difficult against population 16 systems.

4. agree

5. agree

Grat mod but it is not MoO2 :P I hope some day a mod will emerge from FF and be like Stars!, MoO2 and CivIV:Fall from Heaven 2 all in one.

For now, great job guys :D but keep on working.

Things I need to consider this a very goog mod would be: [for now it is a good mod only ;) ]
- more technology, expand the technology tree, wider not longer, make economy branch, weponry branches, ship construction branch, socjology/religion/philosophy
- range! ships shouldnt explore space endlesly, only x parseks from your borders, maybe make all movement like airplains, then hiding close to borders would make interception a nice strategy [I havent the slightest idea how you would explain it to the AI :/]
- no 'space roads'

Hmm, I going to search my MoO2 cd now. Have fun :)

^^

1. Color tells you planet stats, size tells you pop. Rings and moons do not matter. I wonder if star color indicates planets.


But why hide the ball? Give me some meaningful damn stats!


2. Stealth ships served all those purposes (with promotions available). Stealth will cost more after the patch...


IMHO, no. Stealth ships are attackers. A spy team are, well, spies. Grabbing of info, treasury, etc. It is an important and different mechanism.


3. Landing party 1 per would be difficult against population 16 systems.


True. But worlds are big places with lots of folks. That's why some softening up via Orbital Bombarment should be an option.

A tech for Bio-weaponry for targeted population slaughter would be welcome as well. Screw the nukes! Put some plagues into your missles! :D

B.E.M. (Bug eyed monsters) : I would like to see some alien ships attack instead of the pirates. (And they should have unique ship art).

I know that having a bunch of races (like MOO2) would be way too much to imagine.